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On May 25 2012 22:16 Tunkeg wrote:
"Fighting" and argueing isn't the same as being BM. And yeah I am easily teased into being BM. But there is a difference in being BM when you are pissed off, and being it for the hell of it. I don't support either, but the first is understandable.
Where have people been BM for the hell of it?
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On May 25 2012 22:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
If he was mafia he wouldnt actually be giving up and host would know this
Not true necessarily - e.g. Adam4167 in LI who was scum even said *after* the game had been abandoned that he'd kinda stopped playing because of the shit-storm.
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I am starting to think one of Katina and Nova_Terra has to be scum.
Why you may ask?
It all hinges on Katina. In LI, she was one of only two players who pegged Toad AND VE as scum. Great read. In Liar Mafia, she pretty much nailed all the mafia at some stage. In short, she has good reads.
In this game, this leads to the following possibilities:
1. She is town and correct about Nova.
2. She is mafia pushing a fake case on Nova.
Personally I feel Katina's presented case is fairly weak, relying on 'spam' as a central point, despite admitting to wbg it was not alignment indicative. This is why I am at the moment discounting
3. She is town and incorrect about Nova.
I know this sounds paradoxical. I just feel that a town Katina would not both be incorrect and pushing a weak case.
Personally I feel like option 2 is the most likely, in conjunction with her general apathy for the thread.
I would like everyone to seriously think about this and give me their thoughts.
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On May 25 2012 22:28 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 21:17 marvellosity wrote:On May 25 2012 21:08 Mattchew wrote:On May 25 2012 21:05 Zealos wrote:On May 25 2012 20:23 zelblade wrote:
To be fair most of that was a conversation with WBG.
Tunkeg does look like scum who has given up though, seems like he isnt even trying anymore.
But zealos first.
@zealos who is the most likely to flip red today? Tunkeg clearly isn't mafia, he's just a godawful town. there is no way anyone who doesn't know tunkeg's alignment would come to this conclusion stick with the zealos vote Mattchew - do you accept zelblade's real life excuse and what he's posted? How has his return altered your read? he hasn't posted anything that made me ready to give him a green background but I don't really think he's the best lynch today also, that quote from ver isn't fitting for this situation.... noone is "someone who appears so unbelievably guilty" in this game, despite how strong you may believe your case and read on Zealos are. I mean look at all the counter examples, like acro from GoT who had a red check, from a confirmed (dead) DT. He went down swinging until his last moments (he tried so hard, it got him modkilled)
This is a good point, I will rethink
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On May 25 2012 23:02 Zealos wrote:
@Zelblade: Can you post something useful?
Well, why don't you have a read of my katina post yourself? 
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Come on Matt, talk about Katina with me.
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On May 25 2012 23:17 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 23:03 marvellosity wrote:On May 25 2012 23:02 Zealos wrote:
@Zelblade: Can you post something useful? Well, why don't you have a read of my katina post yourself? Obviously I didn't take part in the games you're referencing, but I'll take your word, unless you think I should read them over. Assuming you're right with what you're saying, and Katina is normally very strong with her scumreads, maybe we should be putting more pressure on Nova. Her case is pretty weak, and I'd like her to elaborate on why she thinks Nova is scum, if she really believes Nova is scum, then she should try harder to convince us to vote for him. In general though, it feels like people are to happy to see one good case and just jump on, rather than try to improve town atmosphere overall. Even if these players are town, they seem far too happy to sit back and let one or 2 influential veterans do all their work for them.
So you disagree with my conclusion that option 2 was more likely, given her general posting in the thread as well?
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I'm not gonna be voting for Tunkeg obviously.
##unvote
##Vote: Zealos
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On May 25 2012 23:28 Zealos wrote:
Any more posting on my part seems a waste of time at this point. Just make sure to read my filter when I flip, you'll see who needs lynching.
You do realise that even if you are townie, it doesn't make you miraculously correct in your reads, right? ^^
Two things that have given me back a bit of confidence in the Zealos lynch:
1) Matt's post about Acro in GoT
2) your wishy-washyness regarding Katina there
I'm kinda liking a Zealos/Katina scumteam atm
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I would like to add a bit of meta case to my argument against Zealos.
Where he was scum in SNMM X he was aggressive from the get go.
He was townie in LIV and although he got mod-killed early and made practically no posts, there was one post that stands out.
On May 04 2012 01:30 Zealos wrote:
At the moment it just feels like we are running in circles. We seem to be very quick at voting for the first thing that anyone does wrong without really thinking about it. We need to vote when we actually have a decent read, not when someone makes an offhand remark that seems a tiny bit "off" That's what I won't be voting till a little later, when I've got a better idea of who's who.
I think the Blub thing at the start was really pretty strange, but I'm not convinced it warrants a vote on its own.
Palmar: I don't get why he has to post so much useless stuff. I don't ever agree with the arguement "It's what he normally does" because it just lets him hide his scumminess. So what I would say to you is; if you're town, just tone it down a bit to allow people to make useful points instead of constantly replying to random stuff you're posting.
Conciliatory. Constructive. Non-abrasive - even when he's having a go at Palmar, he's actually trying to get him to post more usefully.
To the part in bold: he's not willing to make a vote there and then. He wants to think about it, and make a strong read before committing to a vote. Compare to this game.
1st post:
On May 21 2012 07:05 Zealos wrote:
Hey everyone, I agree with a policy VE lynch off the bat gogogo. ##Vote: VisceraEyes
2nd post:
On May 21 2012 15:28 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 12:00 EchelonTee wrote:On May 21 2012 05:38 Acrofales wrote:
Also, if all I had were town games in my history, discrediting any meta-analysis off the bat seems like a pretty good idea for scum. If you thought your playstyle was working, why change it up? of his last 3 games, he lost 2 of them, and was nearly mislynched in the other. I wouldn't define that as "his playstyle working". what kind of crappy misformulated discreditation is this? On May 21 2012 05:30 Acrofales wrote:
Yo Tunkeg. Glad to see you got that first post out of the way. Always a bitch as scum. You wrote a wall of text which says jack diddly squat. Bugs posted some decent advice, Nova and I indicated who we're keeping eyes on. You just posted a load of nonsense about yourself that I for one am not interested in. his first post had 50x the content you had. then you try and buddy to nova saying you two are "keeping eyes on people"; all you posted was a joke accusation on Mattchew. On May 21 2012 07:23 Acrofales wrote:
Hrmmm, Navillus, that's pretty interesting. Did Bugs give good advice or bad advice? Navilus also posted a semi joke accusation on bugs ("i only recognize 2 vets so i vote the one who has less votes") Found scum. that was easy. you play exactly like forumite's scum: ask tons of questions, do diddly squat ##Vote: Acrofales I'm inclined to agree with you here. Add to the fact that the last game I played with him as scum, he was almost caught right off the bat on day 1, only for us to change last minute. Seems to like playing scummy when he's scum. ##Vote: Acrofales
Another vote:
On May 22 2012 23:15 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 23:09 Mattchew wrote:On May 22 2012 22:41 Mouldy Jeb wrote:
yeah i had a feeling (OOOH AAAH) that that wasn't going to be understood, to explain, originally he voted for me for a reason he has yet to conger up then because of that random vote i felt that he was having a random vote so i voted for him. as a result of this he is trying to incriminate me by the whole "it reeks of terror and chaos shit"~~short and simple i don't like him i think he's scum trying to save his ass. "In a town shaped by the subtle machinations and political intrigue of its guilds, it's reassuring to see a goblin waving his torch and screaming about some nonsense or other." —Agrus Kos Lol. Gotta say I agree, I just don't understand what he's talking about o.O Terrible town, or terrible mafia imo. ##vote: MouldyJeb
Another post:
On May 23 2012 00:04 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:On May 23 2012 00:00 Zealos wrote:On May 22 2012 23:59 marvellosity wrote:On May 22 2012 23:15 Zealos wrote:On May 22 2012 23:09 Mattchew wrote:On May 22 2012 22:41 Mouldy Jeb wrote:
yeah i had a feeling (OOOH AAAH) that that wasn't going to be understood, to explain, originally he voted for me for a reason he has yet to conger up then because of that random vote i felt that he was having a random vote so i voted for him. as a result of this he is trying to incriminate me by the whole "it reeks of terror and chaos shit"~~short and simple i don't like him i think he's scum trying to save his ass. "In a town shaped by the subtle machinations and political intrigue of its guilds, it's reassuring to see a goblin waving his torch and screaming about some nonsense or other." —Agrus Kos Lol. Gotta say I agree, I just don't understand what he's talking about o.O Terrible town, or terrible mafia imo.##vote: MouldyJeb Do you not have an opinion which? And presuming you do, why? Leaning on terrible town, because his team would have shut him up or at least coached him by now imo. Still strongest lynch atm though. Lurked to begin with, followed with nonsensical posting. You don't have a single scumread? No strong ones, no, I haven't had a good enough look over the thread. I'll look over everything at the end of the night, because even if I tried to make a case now it'd probably be too late to get anything done about it.
I've posted 4 quotes here. He immediately votes on VE and then immediately switches to Acrofales. He later switches to Mouldy, with an excuse for deferring his scum hunt until later. Just for emphasis, compare to his attitude as town in LIV:
On May 04 2012 01:30 Zealos wrote:
We need to vote when we actually have a decent read, not when someone makes an offhand remark that seems a tiny bit "off" That's what I won't be voting till a little later, when I've got a better idea of who's who.
It doesn't add up.
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On May 26 2012 00:11 Acid~ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2012 23:53 Nova_Terra wrote:
Marvel thats the exact scumteam that i was thinking about being possible
You two agreeing with each other gain, it's like déjà vu. Zealos is probably getting lynched today. If he flips town, I want you both dead.
I must say, you have an awfully simplistic view of how mafia is played.
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I'm very happy with Zealos now.
Town should be voting with me.
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On May 26 2012 00:42 Nova_Terra wrote:
kk katinas not happening, please modkilllll
##Unvote
##Vote: Zealos
Well done, snugglebum. (shh, is Acid watching?)
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On May 26 2012 01:18 froggynoddy wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote HiroPro
You die tomorrow if you are lying.
Lol, what on earth is this?!
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Nothing in his filter makes sense with the claim, I call bogus
Actually I am of the mind that they are both scum and we should lynch them in turn, Zealos first.
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On May 26 2012 02:11 Zealos wrote:
So, as you guys know, my thoughts on day 1 were.... to put it bluntly, bad.
My main first case was against acro, which was valid at the time, however, I think it's pretty clear to everyone that Marvel is a town player, so there was no point checking him.
The other player I thought was a bit off was Zel. However, he was being super inactive and lurky at the time, so I expected him to be vigged, and so not worth the check.
The reason I did check Hiro, however, is that he was one of the few people who didn't bother questioning me about Jeb. I stand by my decision to vote for him, but it raised a few eyebrows, and for good reason. Hiro on the other hand didn't think twice of it, and was happy to just watch us townies argue between ourselves.
When he came out red, I *slightly* overreacted, hence, the moment I saw any reason to pile pressure on him, I took it, and hoped town would do the same. When this didn't happen, I subtly claimed in the hope one of the vets would see it. This is also why I asked earlier, that a vet would look over my filter and I asked "Is my few mafia traits the only thing that sticks out?" in the hope they would notice, and attempt to help me swing the votes over to Hiro.
Take from this what you will.
Fuck guys, come on, think about this a little.
Firstly, to the bold: you know when zelblade started getting suspicious to a lot of people? The first day of the 2nd Day cycle. Why? because during the Night he said he would provide reads the next day (i.e. the first day of Day 2). zelblade at the time of Night 1 was neither that lurky nor that suspicious to anyone.
Further to this, why on earth would Zealos expect him to be vigged?
There were several loud claims for vig shots, most notably: me - I wanted NT shot. wherebugsgo - he wanted Zealos and Tunkeg shot. there was also mention of Katina being vigged I believe.
Where in all this does Zealos come to the conclusion taht zelblade is likely to be vig shotted? IT MAKES NO SENSE.
This is Mafia LI mark 2, can't you guys see that?
Think about the timings of when zelblade got suspicious, think who Zealos apparently found suspicious, who Zealos made no mention of at all (seriously, his reason for checking Hiro is superweak - he didn't question me on Moudly?). zelblade was at no risk of being vig shotted.
This claim is as false as they come.
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EBWOP: *question him, the bit in brackets
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On May 26 2012 02:44 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2012 02:42 marvellosity wrote:On May 26 2012 02:11 Zealos wrote:
So, as you guys know, my thoughts on day 1 were.... to put it bluntly, bad.
My main first case was against acro, which was valid at the time, however, I think it's pretty clear to everyone that Marvel is a town player, so there was no point checking him.
The other player I thought was a bit off was Zel. However, he was being super inactive and lurky at the time, so I expected him to be vigged, and so not worth the check.
The reason I did check Hiro, however, is that he was one of the few people who didn't bother questioning me about Jeb. I stand by my decision to vote for him, but it raised a few eyebrows, and for good reason. Hiro on the other hand didn't think twice of it, and was happy to just watch us townies argue between ourselves.
When he came out red, I *slightly* overreacted, hence, the moment I saw any reason to pile pressure on him, I took it, and hoped town would do the same. When this didn't happen, I subtly claimed in the hope one of the vets would see it. This is also why I asked earlier, that a vet would look over my filter and I asked "Is my few mafia traits the only thing that sticks out?" in the hope they would notice, and attempt to help me swing the votes over to Hiro.
Take from this what you will. Fuck guys, come on, think about this a little. Firstly, to the bold: you know when zelblade started getting suspicious to a lot of people? The first day of the 2nd Day cycle. Why? because during the Night he said he would provide reads the next day (i.e. the first day of Day 2). zelblade at the time of Night 1 was neither that lurky nor that suspicious to anyone. Further to this, why on earth would Zealos expect him to be vigged? There were several loud claims for vig shots, most notably: me - I wanted NT shot. wherebugsgo - he wanted Zealos and Tunkeg shot. there was also mention of Katina being vigged I believe. Where in all this does Zealos come to the conclusion taht zelblade is likely to be vig shotted? IT MAKES NO SENSE. This is Mafia LI mark 2, can't you guys see that? Think about the timings of when zelblade got suspicious, think who Zealos apparently found suspicious, who Zealos made no mention of at all (seriously, his reason for checking Hiro is superweak - he didn't question me on Moudly?). zelblade was at no risk of being vig shotted. This claim is as false as they come. Because Zel was inactive and useless to town. I would have vigged him. Also, the hiro reason didn't need to be super strong at the time, it was either that or a random.
Bullshit. During Day 1 he was not inactive, he only started getting inactive later. Everything in my post stands.
Hiro conveniently comes out with this case allowing Zealos to attack him for it, and they proceed to attack each other.
Town needs to see that your reason for not checking zelblade is nonsense.
You were at a high risk of being lynched Day 2 anyway.
You have no breadcrumb on your check.
This whole thing reeks.
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No, you're a liar, like you've been lying all game.
This is Mafia LI all over again.
Day 2 VE is under heavy fire. Comes out with a blue claim while bussing his team-mate. Team-mate gets infinite town credit (had the game not ended).
This is what is happening here. Whichever of Zealos or Hiro gets lynched, the other is going to get massive town credit. It's so see through.
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EPT
