EPTNewbie Mini XIV - Page 19
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Release
United States4397 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
##Vote: ShiaoPi | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
That is literally the most frustrating thing. It makes the game come down to whether we blindly trust him or blindly lynch him, and what his actual role is. It's hard to make one's self care about the game when, after all of this, it comes down to dumb luck. If skware is replaced, then his replacement is accountable for nothing. Nothing at all. He has two players before him whom he can easily say ignored the game, and WIFOM up any accusation made against him. What are your thoughts about this release? | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
The way I see it, he and Milton are scum. Milton plays badly enough that we can always et him lynched. (he is an exception to the above rule because he had sEveral obvious pro-scum posts. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
@ Mordanis- I guess that's why Lynch All Lurkers is a policy. I don't know what we're supposed to do about skware now with the game on the line. Spoilered because it's mostly sentiment + Show Spoiler + One or two helpful posts from him yesterday could have really helped, or maybe explained a lot about his vote for Release. Shot-in-the-dark lynch just doesn't seem like a good way to possibly end the game. Coping with this situation has got me feeling really bummed out. Skware, if you actually read this I hope you contribute today. Is your best idea of contribution really four short posts and a (bad) vote? Mafia is already a difficult game without you lurking like crazy. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
We head into LYLO (gg to s0lstice) and Release's first action is to vote me after repeatedly saying that we should go after Milton in the previous night. This reason here: On May 28 2012 16:38 Release wrote: Considering the past lynches that we've had, the suspected scum turns out to be playing badly. ShiaoPi has kept his neck out of trouble and townies have not. I'll try to draw up a case against him before this game ends. The way I see it, he and Milton are scum. Milton plays badly enough that we can always et him lynched. (he is an exception to the above rule because he had sEveral obvious pro-scum posts. is beyond retarded. If you seriously believe that it gets ridiculous, you say that I am scum for not being a bad townie and for not getting lynched? Congratulations you should lynch all of us right now with this reasoning. A sudden switch after the Milton case onto me is totally uncomprehensible to me and just goes on to a meltdown for logic. If you do not care to elaborate I might have to reconsider my opinion of you. As we are in LYLO we should simply go after the one you find scummiest and not somebody who you might think is scum. Mislynch and it's over. Which is another reason why I would not support a lynch on skware, that's way too much coinflipping involved in going after him with his low amount of posts. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On May 22 2012 09:25 Mufaa wrote: I was Mafia in XIII and the amount of lurkers in a 12 person game ruined it. We won after a misread by the vig n3 because 2 of the mafia lurked all 3 days and so did 2 townies and he guessed wrong. If we want to find the scum we need as much content out of everyone as possible. More content means more room for mafia mistakes while townies can't make a mistake if they're being honest. On May 23 2012 00:30 Release wrote: We need to start panicking if no one votes and it is a short time before the deadline. This is textbook no lynch territory. In this case, we need to start piling our votes on one candidate who has appeared the most scummy. Worst case scenario, we look at lurkers and choose to lynch one of them. Still, we need more information, especially because this is Day1 and we only have some 8 hours left and no concrete scum yet. On May 23 2012 04:45 Release wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 01:29 hegeo wrote: Sciberbia bringing the heat via analysis, I like it. Hey Release, some thoughts about your posts, and why I think you're not always helping town with them: a) Even though I understand where you're coming from, this is kind of pseudo-pressuring people, which is futile in the beginning of the game. This makes for an anti-town-atmosphere, since posting should be encouraged. b) It's not the best case to lynch lurkers, but if they don't contribute to town then it is at least good riddance. c) You are posting at least a considerable amount of non-productive posts right now, e.g. to this post... ... your answer was this: You consistently do this "#FOS"-stuff and then, you FOS Sciberibia... ..before even un##FOSing Mordanis: To answer in your own words: Even though there are many players that have a way shorter filter than you, what you do is generating "noise" (not always, you have your points that I can agree with and you definitely contribute). It seems as though you either just want to stir up anything you can (because both of these #FOSes came to nothing, which would make you a little scummy) or I read it as an overly motivated try to get information. Response to a) my point was that contributing useless information is worse than having no contribution at all. My example was Sciberia's asking the same question twice, which has since, been given some clarification. b) Lynching a lurker is not "good riddance". I don't see why a townie should feel that way. Lynching a lurker (if there are more than one) is random to a townie, but clear to the mafia. The mafia will obviously choose the lurker whom is a townie, therefore causing us to mislynch. Advocating a lurker lynch instead of focusing on those who are suspicious is a Mafia's way of thinking. In fact, you don't even list some alternative, despite it not being a best case scenario. + Show Spoiler + c)my answer was this: "My point is that Townies can make mistakes, but townies don't make slips. Mafia make can make mistakes; usually their mistake is to make a slip. I want to make that very clear. We shouldn't end up lynching for a mistake. We should lynch someone who makes a slip." From Newbie II game + Show Spoiler + Probulous got a AKCT lynched. That was a mistake. He was clearly contributing so even though he made a mistake, he shouldn't get lynched. (he didn't) Sheth however, does slip in trying to save his scumbuddy and got lynched for that. this was in support of the above point i made. Your c) and reasoning behind are Blatant Lies; you intentionally leave out my actual point to make it seem like i am posting filler. If i didn't know better, you know that i am town, and see that i am dangerous to your scum motives. You are targeting me with a weak case based on incomplete evidence. In regard to the FOS before unFOS, i did it to show that i was putting both of them under suspicion. There are 3 mafia. I only had 2. Are you seriously trying to convince to to avoid the larger picture and completely ignore anyone (other than the person who i am targeting at the moment) who might be Mafia? The FOS's got people talking. Talking is good for the town. Again, this is an example of where you completely ignore the larger picture. "overly motivated try to get information." All townies want information. After all, we don't know much. You however, seem perfectly content to let this day slip by without extracting a lot of information from it (presumably because you already have the information because you are scum). I see no other option as of yet (or until you reply) but to: ##Vote: Hegeo And some other times we've said that lynching a lurker is really only an option if we don't have another case. As long as we don't all fall off the face of the earth, everyone but skware/Mufaa will be much more likely to be lynched than the person who hasn't posted basically at all. And even more importantly, we've already agreed to do just that. I'm thinking that we need to at least seriously consider skware as a candidate for being lynched. It is annoyingly luck-based, but so is not lynching him at this point. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
Here's even more evidence. Skware started out fairly actively, and posted pretty good analysis for someone who had just looked at the thread for the first time. He posts 3 semi-analytical posts in about 8 hours, and then claims that he will be inactive for a while due to sleep and work. Then he posts nothing more save a seemingly random vote for Release. The way I see it, he was fairly active in pointing out the things he saw until he read through the first few pages and found out that we would only "pressure" lurkers by maybe occasionally voting for one for a few hours, or putting a FOS on them, or even "being more suspicious" of them. That last part is sort of WIFOM, but I think we can agree that the facts seem suspicious. He is active, and when he gets time to analyze the thread, he disappears. And we said that we wouldn't lynch a lurker unless there isn't a better case. What are everyone else's thoughts? | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
Milton, plz, if you are able to read this in time, don't go wasting your time defending yourself. I made that case by concluding that every single action = scum. Don't respond to that. Go build a case on someone else. | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
I said it already but I'll repeat I really do not like lynching skware, we can just flip a coin if we do it to determine the outcome of the game. I for one would be interested in the posts that were promised by Release and Milton before deciding on anything. If we are approaching deadline and he still does nothing then I might be willing to give it a shot, but until then no. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
##vote: Mordanis On May 29 2012 03:08 Mordanis wrote: We've been duped I think. This is probably the bigger reason why we shouldn't have talked about policy. It's not so much that it is sort of filler and a way for scum to come off as protown, but more because it shows the scum what our attitudes are. Mufaa has already admitted to winning a previous game as scum by lurking + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2012 09:25 Mufaa wrote: I was Mafia in XIII and the amount of lurkers in a 12 person game ruined it. We won after a misread by the vig n3 because 2 of the mafia lurked all 3 days and so did 2 townies and he guessed wrong. If we want to find the scum we need as much content out of everyone as possible. More content means more room for mafia mistakes while townies can't make a mistake if they're being honest. On May 23 2012 00:30 Release wrote: We need to start panicking if no one votes and it is a short time before the deadline. This is textbook no lynch territory. In this case, we need to start piling our votes on one candidate who has appeared the most scummy. Worst case scenario, we look at lurkers and choose to lynch one of them. Still, we need more information, especially because this is Day1 and we only have some 8 hours left and no concrete scum yet. On May 23 2012 04:45 Release wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 01:29 hegeo wrote: Sciberbia bringing the heat via analysis, I like it. Hey Release, some thoughts about your posts, and why I think you're not always helping town with them: a) Even though I understand where you're coming from, this is kind of pseudo-pressuring people, which is futile in the beginning of the game. This makes for an anti-town-atmosphere, since posting should be encouraged. b) It's not the best case to lynch lurkers, but if they don't contribute to town then it is at least good riddance. c) You are posting at least a considerable amount of non-productive posts right now, e.g. to this post... ... your answer was this: You consistently do this "#FOS"-stuff and then, you FOS Sciberibia... ..before even un##FOSing Mordanis: To answer in your own words: Even though there are many players that have a way shorter filter than you, what you do is generating "noise" (not always, you have your points that I can agree with and you definitely contribute). It seems as though you either just want to stir up anything you can (because both of these #FOSes came to nothing, which would make you a little scummy) or I read it as an overly motivated try to get information. Response to a) my point was that contributing useless information is worse than having no contribution at all. My example was Sciberia's asking the same question twice, which has since, been given some clarification. b) Lynching a lurker is not "good riddance". I don't see why a townie should feel that way. Lynching a lurker (if there are more than one) is random to a townie, but clear to the mafia. The mafia will obviously choose the lurker whom is a townie, therefore causing us to mislynch. Advocating a lurker lynch instead of focusing on those who are suspicious is a Mafia's way of thinking. In fact, you don't even list some alternative, despite it not being a best case scenario. + Show Spoiler + c)my answer was this: "My point is that Townies can make mistakes, but townies don't make slips. Mafia make can make mistakes; usually their mistake is to make a slip. I want to make that very clear. We shouldn't end up lynching for a mistake. We should lynch someone who makes a slip." From Newbie II game + Show Spoiler + Probulous got a AKCT lynched. That was a mistake. He was clearly contributing so even though he made a mistake, he shouldn't get lynched. (he didn't) Sheth however, does slip in trying to save his scumbuddy and got lynched for that. this was in support of the above point i made. Your c) and reasoning behind are Blatant Lies; you intentionally leave out my actual point to make it seem like i am posting filler. If i didn't know better, you know that i am town, and see that i am dangerous to your scum motives. You are targeting me with a weak case based on incomplete evidence. In regard to the FOS before unFOS, i did it to show that i was putting both of them under suspicion. There are 3 mafia. I only had 2. Are you seriously trying to convince to to avoid the larger picture and completely ignore anyone (other than the person who i am targeting at the moment) who might be Mafia? The FOS's got people talking. Talking is good for the town. Again, this is an example of where you completely ignore the larger picture. "overly motivated try to get information." All townies want information. After all, we don't know much. You however, seem perfectly content to let this day slip by without extracting a lot of information from it (presumably because you already have the information because you are scum). I see no other option as of yet (or until you reply) but to: ##Vote: Hegeo And some other times we've said that lynching a lurker is really only an option if we don't have another case. As long as we don't all fall off the face of the earth, everyone but skware/Mufaa will be much more likely to be lynched than the person who hasn't posted basically at all. And even more importantly, we've already agreed to do just that. I'm thinking that we need to at least seriously consider skware as a candidate for being lynched. It is annoyingly luck-based, but so is not lynching him at this point. and On May 29 2012 03:19 Mordanis wrote: Skware's filter Here's even more evidence. Skware started out fairly actively, and posted pretty good analysis for someone who had just looked at the thread for the first time. He posts 3 semi-analytical posts in about 8 hours, and then claims that he will be inactive for a while due to sleep and work. Then he posts nothing more save a seemingly random vote for Release. The way I see it, he was fairly active in pointing out the things he saw until he read through the first few pages and found out that we would only "pressure" lurkers by maybe occasionally voting for one for a few hours, or putting a FOS on them, or even "being more suspicious" of them. That last part is sort of WIFOM, but I think we can agree that the facts seem suspicious. He is active, and when he gets time to analyze the thread, he disappears. And we said that we wouldn't lynch a lurker unless there isn't a better case. What are everyone else's thoughts? We really don't need to be talking about Mufaa/Skware right now. There are still two scum left and one of them is guaranteed to be outside of Skware, if not both. So we need to go finding cases on the active four. The lurker can wait another day. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On May 28 2012 08:28 Mordanis wrote: I think its much more likely that I'll be killed tonight than I had to be killed N1. That being said, I hope eveyone will take this post into consideration. It's starting to look like its time for a policy lynch. We don't know anything about skware/Mufaa, and therefore there is no solid case that can be made against him(them). He/They has/have forced us to at least consider a lynch. It's sad that this game might go down to a pure luck situation, but I don't know what else to do. @Release: baiting a mafia kp is probably the dumbest thing you can do. It makes your accusation seem like something that you wrote up just to pressure one player, and if it gains no information. Whether Milton is actually scum or not is not shown by baiting a kp. If he is, letting you live might make him seem more like town. If he isn't though, killing him might make the obvious case be against milton. On the other hand, If he's scum killing you would silence pressure against him. And if he's not scum, letting you live could also add to the conspiracy. It all leads to massive WIFOM, bringing confusion to the town. This one really gets me: Why do you need to make a post about me baiting a KP? Everyone knows I'm baiting a kp. There is no point to do this. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
suddenly you seem to have remembered your case on ShiaoPi after the lynch. Why not keep pushing his case until the very end if you actually believed that he was scum? . This seems an awful lot like your play (with your case against Milton being "forgotten" by your cases on Hegeo and Golden), and yet you seem to think it is very scummy. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
This last post really doesn't make you shine townie in my eyes. | ||
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Mordanis
United States893 Posts
On May 29 2012 04:06 Release wrote: All that stuff i posted before this moment: Pure Bullshit. Milton, plz, if you are able to read this in time, don't go wasting your time defending yourself. I made that case by concluding that every single action = scum. Don't respond to that. Go build a case on someone else. Do you see how this is ambiguous? It could mean through the entire game, through N2, or just what you've written D3, or anything in between. Don't blame me for misinterpreting when you aren't clear. Actually, why are you being so defensive? So far this cycle you've voted for two people and and said that you're trying to manipulate the game. And everything you've said against me is basically "OMGUS, you disagreed with me. OMGUS, you misinterpreted me.". Post real analysis. One more thing: On May 29 2012 05:56 Release wrote: Come on. Read. I just said that the post was bullshit. Now you're trying to quote my bullshit and turn it into evidence against me. I said it was bullshit, it is bullshit. It was purely for the "bait." This last post really doesn't make you shine townie in my eyes. Which was it? In the first post I quoted, you say that every one of Milton's actions was scummy. In the second post you say your accusation was bullshit. Which is it? | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On May 29 2012 06:18 Mordanis wrote: Do you see how this is ambiguous? It could mean through the entire game, through N2, or just what you've written D3, or anything in between. Don't blame me for misinterpreting when you aren't clear. Actually, why are you being so defensive? So far this cycle you've voted for two people and and said that you're trying to manipulate the game. And everything you've said against me is basically "OMGUS, you disagreed with me. OMGUS, you misinterpreted me.". Post real analysis. One more thing: Which was it? In the first post I quoted, you say that every one of Milton's actions was scummy. In the second post you say your accusation was bullshit. Which is it? bullshit from the long milton post until now. Every one of Milton's actions was scummy is the false assumption i used to create that bullshit post. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
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