EPTTL Mafia LV
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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On May 25 2012 04:17 strongandbig wrote: Naive and paranoid mean "always rolls innocent" and "always rolls guilty" right? yes | ||
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I've been semi-following the thread, I'll give it a good read this evening and with any luck have something useful to post. Although I'm already doing better than my predecessor. | ||
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On May 30 2012 00:45 jaj22 wrote: I can't get my head around the idea of someone signing up for a game with a premeditated plan to tunnel the crap out of one player and ignore the actual game. He never even said anything in the postgame of LIV. I'll just have to file him under "strange things that townies do". On this whole issue generally. I think you really have to have been in LIV to understand the sentiments of many. BH and I weren't in the original signups for this game precisely because of LIV (yes, we both didn't sign up to this game on the original list because of how LIV played out). So I find Sinensis' actions really quite understandable. There have been plenty of people in this thread saying things along the lines of "but OMG, there's no such THING as anti-town town!". I had subscribed to that myself, but LIV shook my faith in this. And I was the scum taking advantage of it for god's sakes. | ||
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I'd have probably voted Wiggles day 1, his posting has been clear and makes sense. I don't quite get the level of flak he got for lynching Sinensis, and for a tonne of people to vote him in as mayor, then going into a lynch candidate is decidely weird. Especially don't like supersoft's accusations on the subject, as he only got vocal about the lynch after it happened. super's posting style also pisses me off. Toad we're leaving to day 2, although he can shut the hell up about being confirmed town, because it's annoying. Lurkers are annoying. Zealos is scummy. For reference, I made a meta based attack on him in Magic: + Show Spoiler + On May 26 2012 00:12 marvellosity wrote: I would like to add a bit of meta case to my argument against Zealos. Where he was scum in SNMM X he was aggressive from the get go. He was townie in LIV and although he got mod-killed early and made practically no posts, there was one post that stands out. Conciliatory. Constructive. Non-abrasive - even when he's having a go at Palmar, he's actually trying to get him to post more usefully. To the part in bold: he's not willing to make a vote there and then. He wants to think about it, and make a strong read before committing to a vote. Compare to this game. 1st post: 2nd post: Another vote: Another post: I've posted 4 quotes here. He immediately votes on VE and then immediately switches to Acrofales. He later switches to Mouldy, with an excuse for deferring his scum hunt until later. Just for emphasis, compare to his attitude as town in LIV: It doesn't add up. So it makes sense that he is well aware of how he posts at the moment after I attacked him for it very recently. It looks like he was trying to make posts at the start that look like 'townie' Zealos meta (see in the spoiler how I pointed him out as more conciliatory etc as town). However, what I didn't need to post in MTG as it wasn't my point, was that as townie he is also confident and forthright in his reads. He has done none of that. I don't mind much a wishywashy starting post, but when it's followed by more wishywashyness and no content, it starts to look scummy. I liked a lot VE's point a couple of pages ago referring to "why would you want to vig me, I'm townie". As he pointed out that is a defence that is not a defence. Currently looking like a good lynch. | ||
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On May 30 2012 06:00 VisceraEyes wrote: Marvel: State of the Game. Go. Read my filter: Go. | ||
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I already said I was happy to see what happens with the Toad claim thing day 2. I also made a comment on supersoft (i.e. not being vocal about sinensis before the lynch). As far as getting a read on supersoft goes, I believe he'll make his alignment clearer during day 2. He's combative but I don't see him as being good at hiding his motivations. | ||
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On May 30 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Marvel, the correct response is "my thoughts are X and Y and Z"...my question of you wasn't an accusation, so there's no need to get defensive. Saying things like "I already said" and "I made a comment" are very defensive when all I wanted was your input. :/ Much like Magic you are reading my responses as defensive when they were not. I'm just baffled you are asking questions I have already stated clear opinions on or at least alluded to. | ||
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I answered it in any case. | ||
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On May 30 2012 06:42 supersoft wrote: hang me for not succeeding to keep you away from hanging the wrong guys. is that what you wanted to say? the point is that you didn't try to prevent it while it could be prevented, only once the deed was done. | ||
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On May 30 2012 08:19 Blazinghand wrote: but... I already notified the thread I didn't get a PM. should I do so again? "guys I didn't get a PM" or are you like backtracking the fact that you masoned me? wtf toad im so confused ;_; He's saying he put in to mason MZ first, then changed his mind to you, but for some reason the mason to MZ went through and not the one with you. | ||
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On May 30 2012 09:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Your trap? You know I'm not a fan of lying to town ever. That being said, it was a clever play if it pans out....my problem lies with how hard it is to convince town that your conclusion is the correct one in situations like this: for example, if SnB were scum, why would he provide ANY insight as to the night-kills? In fact, why would he comment on your hit at all if he were scum? I understand what you're saying in that "as scum he would know that scum didn't shoot me", but it doesn't make sense from a scum perspective to comment on your hit. Yes, agreed, plus the town motive is easy to see. Did any of you actually click Mattchew's filter? Nothing, nothing at all. If it's not a blue snipe it's an absolutely bizarre hit. I really don't see what's so odd in questioning it. | ||
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Firstly, VE: </3 On strongandbig: I'm not seeing it. His filter reads to me as open, willing and earnest. He tried very hard to back down from an argument with BH in order to not shit up the thread (not helped by BH). I have almost no confidence that Matt's narrative that snb 'fell into his trap' is correct. On kita's case on VE: don't really see this either. VE is distinctly less argumentative than normal and this is promoting a good town atmosphere. Probulous agreed that the 2nd half of kita's case was more damning/suspicious, with VE having unfounded confidence in his reads at the time. Like, do you people read VE's games? This is a common occurrence, both as scum and town. Totally alignment unindicative. I'm picking out this post from among the detritus because it was shouted down/ignored by the vets posting at the time: + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2012 10:27 austinmcc wrote: The nonexistent kind? I'm not defending him. I bring up the vote because: You brought up the no-vote in your initial 2 posts when you mentioned him. To the extent that the no-vote factored into your read, the read was off, but you may have been more focused on the crappy posting, in which case the no-vote is entirely irrelevant. Again, I'm not trying to defend Gambit here, I'm trying to see your reasoning. Why him over
Plenty of valid questions/points. Particularly it points out this: On May 28 2012 08:19 phagga wrote: Not through the complete thread yet, will catch up later. I'm against a policy lynch, as I think everyone should get the chance to improve. I don't like how Toadesstern claimed, and feel against voting him therefore. He is either throwing away his blue role or fakeclaiming to get the major. Both is bad. I like Mr. Wiggles reasoning, he looks like a good candidate. The other interesting option is ET, but I will have to read through his filter again to feel more sure. Mr. Wiggles and ET, do you already have some candidates for your lynch? Especially to the bold: he will catch up on the thread later. This was 2.5 days ago. People are merrily lynching Gambit because of 2 bad posts and ignoring phagga who makes a similar non-post but with only ONE post AND a promise to catch up later that went unfulfilled. Overall I think phagga and Gambit make quite good lynches for today. But I am most confident in a Zealos lynch still. Everything he posts says scum to me, and I am confident in my ability to read him. | ||
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You know, the guy who made one wishywashy post, said he'd catch up on the thread but didn't, but has zero suspicion compared to Gambit just because wbg was hit. | ||
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On May 31 2012 00:40 Toadesstern wrote: If I had to find another mason to summon Captain Planet I would have alread found him and won this game :p Now on to lynching: Kita or VE I'd say Well, if you want to lynch kita, "meta reasons i won't go into" isn't going to provide a particularly compelling case, dear. | ||
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On May 31 2012 00:48 Toadesstern wrote: is "I'm confirmed town, so just trust me" a compelling case? No, because being town does not make you correct. Newb logic fail... | ||
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On May 31 2012 00:51 Toadesstern wrote: sure but that's more than you now about the rest And that provides a compelling case against kita how? | ||
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On May 31 2012 00:59 Toadesstern wrote: have you not read my mayoral campaing? We don't lynch into WBG, we don't lynch into Foru (because dead), we don't lynch into me, we don't lynch into wiggles. That's already 4 vets we're not willing to lynch into. Makes Kita / VE look pretty bad imo, even without meta. That's some bloody weak sauce. | ||
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I'm not lynching on that. | ||
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On May 31 2012 04:21 supersoft wrote: lynch wiggles and zealos!!! both scum!!! o hai grush. I agree on Zealos. Why Wiggles? | ||
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On May 31 2012 05:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Marvel why </3? I <3! Why </3? you lololing at me being on ken's list :< | ||
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On May 31 2012 05:08 Ange777 wrote: I would prefer voting Gambit over Zealos. A Zealos lynch won't give us much info. If the possibility of him being mason is the only reason against it, I'd still vote for Gambit. Do you think Gambit's posts have been scummier? What information do you expect to glean from a Gambit lynch? | ||
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On May 31 2012 05:09 VisceraEyes wrote: His list was (as far as I'm concerned) based on longevity. I lol'd because your name was out of place in that regard, not because of your skill. You a BAUS. [/buddy] Hmm, alright. My delicate flower ego has been assuaged | ||
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On May 31 2012 05:12 VisceraEyes wrote: ^^ Now that we're in the consolidation phase marvel, do you REALLY have a problem with a Gambit lynch or were you just trying to get info from Bugs? I feel a lot more confident in a Zealos lynch. I read over like 4 of his previous games when I was looking at him in Magic and I think I have a handle on him. After I pointed it out how he started town/scum games in mafia, he's come in here trying really hard to make his first post look like 'townie' Zealos. Too hard. Then he hasn't followed it up with any substance. Only more weird and scummy posts. Town Zealos would be dishing out his reads, but he's cowering in fear hoping the topic of conversation would move on from him. I would consolidate on Gambit. His two posts are a bundle of nothingness disguised as somethingness. It's also possible that wbg was hit because he was suspicious of Gambit, but this doesn't have to be the case - could have just been hitting a vet. Anyway: ##Vote: Zealos | ||
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On May 31 2012 05:35 Ange777 wrote: Why is Zealos a stronger lynch in your opinion? I've basically answered that in previous posts, check my filter | ||
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On May 31 2012 06:00 Zealos wrote: You say I'd be dishing out my reads, and yet the only other large mafia game I've played in I was scum. You have no point of comparison. If I'm honest, I'm really struggling to keep up with this thread at all, there's so much more to read than in the mini games :S The most notable point of comparison is Game of Thrones. | ||
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On May 31 2012 06:11 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean, we have 2 hours and ~1/3 the votes. It seems as though the last two hours are going to be fraught with hasty decisions and lots of screaming and yelling. Anyone wanna sing Kumbaya with me before this whole thing goes south? We have a day, don't we? | ||
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One thing I'd written down before I came to VE's case is the absolutely odd occurrence of people vaguely, kinda, sort of being suspicious of kita. wbg's 'he kinda feels scummy' sentiment, VE's *earlier* non-case followed by OMGUS vote and unvote, Toad's 'scum coz of meta I won't elaborate on' and Probulous' case that wasn't quite a case. What's going on here? My read on VE is all over the place. I was leaning town, now I'm not so sure. I agreed heavily with wbg's post here: + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2012 12:32 wherebugsgo wrote: ok VE just did two incredibly scummy things. First of all supersoft pointed out something very valid: VE was all for pushing zealos but not actually putting his vote where his mouth was. Five minutes after supersoft posts this, VE makes a post unvoting gambit and voting Zealos. That's scummy thing #1. Scummy thing #2 is when some random guy comes in the thread and calls Hyaach scummy. VE immediately lets go of his Zealos vote and then votes Hyaach. It's like he has no sense of consolidation and he's just going with the flavor of the moment. This is what he did in LI where I came in the thread and said "hey hassybaby is scummy" and then VE voted hassy after I voted him, and kept saying how he was willing to kill him but changed his vote later anyway. The only problem is that in recent games VE has been willing to put together a bunch of names as scum all at once and he hasn't been afraid of calling them all out regardless of how strong the actual cases are (though he himself feels strongly about them, I suppose) usually though he tunnels at least one of the players. Right now I'm not feeling like VE has any sort of real conviction, and at the very least town VE has balls. All this rings true. I just don't get the flip-flopping. If townie VE was confident enough to shoot at Zealos night 1, why is it so hard to get him to keep to a vote on him today? Unfortunately, my thoughts very much sheep wbg's: On May 31 2012 17:00 wherebugsgo wrote: I don't like lynching VE cause he always flips town whenever he does scummy shit. On May 31 2012 17:04 wherebugsgo wrote: For now though my vote stays on Zealos since I'm more confident that he's scum. Based on VE's past few games I can't say I have what it takes to get a proper read on him. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To Probulous and anyone who cares to read - please take a look over my filter for my thoughts regarding Zealos. Other people made what cases there were to be made based on Zealos' posts, and I have tried to explain why I think I have a meta handle on him and why he's scum. There's one post I refer to early on in my filter about Zealos that VE made himself, but didn't directly quote, so here it is, as I thought it was a very strong point: + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2012 01:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Posts like this really irk (pun intended ^^) me. First of all, it's clear by SS's post that he's suspicious of Zealos - that is to say, that he thinks he's scum. Yet Zealos' response is "But I'm townie, why do you want to kill a townie?" The obvious answer is that he doesn't - if you ask anyone in this game, literally anyone, whether they want to kill a townie, scum and town alike are going to say "of course not what a stupid question." No one WANTS to kill a townie...but the idea that Zealos is attempting to plant here is that supersoft wants to kill a townie. It's a manipulation move. Don't let it work. I feel way more confident in Zealos than I do in my read on VE, who I very rarely get an accurate read on. Right, back to read the major cases. | ||
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I get that he's been front back, left right, up down with regards to Toad. What I don't get is why he'd do so as scum, why he almost voluntarily posts a target on his back by posting about it. | ||
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On May 31 2012 23:22 strongandbig wrote: If VE flips town I'm going to feel like a ginormous turd since he's been defending me. However, as I said about someone else earlier, sideways defense of a townie is a common scum play. The thing is, defending a bad townie is scummy because it's also what town should be doing... But his play this game reminds me too much of the scum play from him in wheel of fortune. It seems no one checked this out in my last post, so I'll post again the link to radfield's case which nailed him that game. In addition to that, his defense of himself was kind of similar, although he took a somewhat different attitude towards Radfield's than to MZ because of their different reputations. Anyway in that game he also posted a longish case after being seriously accused, which he framed as "whether I live or die this person is scum so here's my last help to town." But the main thing is both games include him jumping around between lynch targets and not making a really serious case until after someone made a big serious case on him. ##vote: visceraeyes Just an FYI, though - I'm not 100% confident in this vote. Wbg is right that lynching VE is always risky, plus I'm not sure that VE would be so open with his buddying as scum. The thing is, he could. I think we need to keep up the pressure on gambit and zealos - especially gambit, since he still hasn't even responded to the mason question. I also want to keep it up on supersoft. Apparently other people are giving him a "free pass" for his shitty ass posting night one, but it's high time to step it up. snb - did you take the time to read and evaluate VE's case on kita? | ||
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There's the problem. VE has cherrypicked his points. In conclusion he gives a typical 'town kita' post, followed by a pointless post from kita with the associated "look difference lol!". But actually I can easily find a few of kita's posts from this game that line up with VE's typical kita town post. Part 2 of the case is mostly a rehash of earlier concerns about kita being 'obsessed' with the lyncher, which VE didn't find strong enough. So Part 1 is added with a shoddy meta attack. You scum, VE? | ||
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On June 01 2012 01:18 Zealos wrote: Whats my meta exactly Marvel. I'm pretty sure in Magic mafia you meta'd me as scum due to my aggression, now you're meta-ing me as scum for... lurking? Do you not bother to read my posts at all? I even linked the post I made in MTM in this thread. The thrust of my meta attack on you in Magic was that as town you didn't vote willy-nilly and in MTM you did. On May 31 2012 05:18 marvellosity wrote: I feel a lot more confident in a Zealos lynch. I read over like 4 of his previous games when I was looking at him in Magic and I think I have a handle on him. After I pointed it out how he started town/scum games in mafia, he's come in here trying really hard to make his first post look like 'townie' Zealos. Too hard. Then he hasn't followed it up with any substance. Only more weird and scummy posts. Town Zealos would be dishing out his reads, but he's cowering in fear hoping the topic of conversation would move on from him. Everything you ask is already answered in this post. To the green: how's that going for ya? Oh... it isn't! | ||
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On June 01 2012 01:23 Toadesstern wrote: Lynching into Zealos gives me 0 information on my assumptions up to this point and neither will it give someone else a lot of information. Toad, ss thinks a Zealos flip will give info about Wiggles, do you not agree? | ||
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On June 01 2012 01:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Can anyone tell me in their own words why I'm scummy? I'm not responding to MZ because he's maliciously misrepresenting my intentions....but I'll gladly respond to anyone else. Two things I mentioned: the weak-ass meta attack on kita, and the fact you were totally willing to shoot zealos night 1 yet getting you to vote him today is almost impossible | ||
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On June 01 2012 01:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Anyway, if I can be arsed I'll look for more scum that aren't Kita/MZ later. Probably not though considering how little anyone cares about reading what I write. GG town. Kill Scum. Sorry what, MZ is scum now? | ||
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On June 01 2012 02:18 Hyaach wrote: Is it majority vote by deadline or majority vote at anytime of the day? unvoted again because it was 13th vote and didnt want any ninja. By deadline | ||
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On June 01 2012 03:44 wherebugsgo wrote: Mattchew is annoying as usual. Zealos is not getting votes. Day ends in like 4 hours? I guess VE is the best choice if we have tons of nonvoters. policy lynch VE whenever he claims blue for no reason I guess lol ##unvote ##vote VisceraEyes yeah except he just did it and he was town... >.< | ||
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On June 01 2012 04:14 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Oh I just realized that literally nobody actually bothered to read my second part closely. I posted part 1 in a spoiler but accidentally posted part 2 again... and nobody has pointed that out lolol. Please read things closer. Firstly, why would I click on a spoiler to read something I already read. Secondly, how dare you tell people to read things closer, when I asked you a question - I even put your name in bold - and you've either not read it or are ignoring it? | ||
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On June 01 2012 04:35 wherebugsgo wrote: And yes, marvellosity: it's a policy lynch because VE needs to learn to stop retardedly claiming regardless of his alignment. It makes it nearly impossible to know what he is. If he's town he claimed because he's getting lynched and he'd rather town didn't lynch a vig. Should he not claim in that situation? | ||
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I'm merrily sitting on the fence whether VE is town or scum. In the past I've voted to lynch him twice, and he was town, and in LI I didn't vote to lynch him, and he was scum. There's things I don't like about VE - the Zealos issue, and his meta case on kita, but there is waaaaaaaay too much stuff being read as a narrative. Almost anyone's filter can be made to read scummily if you want it to, but everything he says is being fit to this narrative without looking at the alternative. There's really too much "oh, might as well". Does everyone voting VE genuinely believe he's scum? Obviously this isn't aimed at kita/MZ/Toad, but the rest of you. Is he the best chance of flipping scum for today or are you being led by vocal people? | ||
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On June 01 2012 06:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Are you suspicious of Kitaman independently Marv? Not really - the reason I didn't like your meta case is that actually I can find a few instances where he's critically looking at people. Posts I could happily put against your town kita post and think they're similar. I think you've made too much of his odd Hyach start and lyncher stuff. | ||
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On June 01 2012 06:19 papapanda wrote: Not in particular, I want him to vote for someone who he thinks is scum from his list of read. And he voted kita so nevermind i guess, just saying that voting for someone who you don't think is scum doesn't make much sense. In your vote I don't see anything that shows why you believe VE is scum either. This is what I'm talking about. | ||
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On June 01 2012 06:33 austinmcc wrote: No matter who gets hit overnight, you won't ever have earned confirmed status. You can be scum carrying out the NK. Could be an SK. Even if your shot is directed at someone who flips red, it's not some awe-inspiring bus that gets you towncred. You've said it yourself that you really don't have any other option but to shoot our choice of player, so there's no towncred to be gained from hitting scum. Marv, when I look at our list of options, nobody jumps out as "scummier than VE" for me. Zealos doesn't look good, G32 doesn't look good but I won't vote for him until we see something about his Mason Recruiter mention. To the extent that other players are options, I don't feel that the cases on them are as strong as that on VE - the kita case is based heavily on meta/lyncher focus D1, and other options like wiggles/strongandbig/anyothernamethat'sbeenthrownout aren't very strong either. I'm not 100% on him, but the alternative right now is just too messy. My sentiment isn't so much "oh, might as well," as it is "dear God, if we don't lynch VE then we roll this mess through the night and into D3, and there's no shiny red alternative lynch option." Lynching for expediency is certainly inferior to lynching for scumminess, but there's a combination here and the fact that any non-VE lynch really just puts this same issue back on the table tomorrow. Alright, you tell me - what are the things that make YOU think VE is scum? | ||
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On June 01 2012 06:39 jaj22 wrote: Tactically speaking, people who don't want to lynch VE should be putting their votes on Zealos unless they'd rather have a no-lynch. The case against Kitaman is weak and he's another veteran-lynch: People are likely to think in terms of the best veteran-lynch vs the best lurker-lynch. And yeah, I'm having doubts myself about VE. A lot of his filter looks quite town, even if it's spammy unfocused town. And we'll have to start killing lurkers sometime. If we can't confirm VE one way or another on day 3 it's going to be horrible though. So you have your doubts and you're willing to lynch a claimed vig, ok | ||
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On June 01 2012 06:43 papapanda wrote: Both you and I have read MZ's cases, as well as other posts, can we agree that his points are valid? However as I was reading it, I was, using your term, on the fence for VE's lynch. What I didn't like was how he responded to the pressure. He claimed vig, one the the toughest role to prove at this stage of the game. Ofcourse it's possible he is vig, and what ticked for me was what he said about if he was the mafia leader, the mafia would try more to save him...(can't find the post, but I'm pretty certain that I read it today). Wifom doesn't work as defenses...(learned that the hard way last game, marvellosity;p). Anyhow, my point is I find VE scummy and people trying to spread the vote are also worth looking at(hi kenpachi). what do you find valid in particular? what makes YOU think he's scum? | ||
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On June 01 2012 06:46 Mattchew wrote: Don't you know how hard it is to answer this question as scum the problem is almost no-one seems to be able to answer it | ||
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On June 01 2012 06:54 Hassybaby wrote: My main reasoning is that this is exactly how VE played in LI. But there are doubts, because basically no one else has agreed with me. Hell the only one I see who agrees with that point is Toad. Bugs' cavalier vote is bothering me as well, as is MZ's zealous tunneling. But it'd be stupid to NOT lynch VE..... As opposed to MTM or LIII where he was also lynched after claiming blue you mean? Why are you more convinced by LI than these? Why would it be stupid not to lynch him? | ||
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On June 01 2012 07:12 papapanda wrote: VE has been contradicting himself through the game. The thing about playing completely different playstyle, day-game and night-game, is just bullocks. VE's vote-jumping I dislike. VE's responses are inappropriate as a town. Marv, May I ask you what part of the case you find invalid? I think MZ has created a narrative and fit posts to it. VE is as per usual all over the place but I don't currently see the scum agenda that MZ claims is obviously there. There are even contradictions in things other people have said. Some people have said he was too nice and cooperative, while others have said he's shitting up the thread. The claim is a null. I can't find anything that convinces me VE should be scum rather than town. For reference, I went back and read Radfield's case on VE in WoF. The real 'a-ha!' moment in that case was where he picked up VE on his feigned surprise that MrZentor didn't get night-killed. There has been no tipping moment like that for me here. | ||
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On June 01 2012 07:21 VisceraEyes wrote: With 29 votes available would it not be 15 votes to lynch? ^^ 2 dead, foru and sinensis | ||
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Everyone was happy to lynch Zealos before Everyone said "but wait! he said he had exams, let's see if he comes up with anything" He did not, he made more wishy washy crap without contributing No-one cares ??? | ||
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On June 01 2012 07:30 strongandbig wrote: Ugh. Marv, I'm feeling again like I did before we lynched you in wof. Why am I so bad at this game? Tell me this - if VE gets roleblocked tonight then won't we just waste all of day 3 on the same crap if we no lynch today? Ugh, MZ's case is covincing but my gut is like "no bro don't do it!" strongandbig, you're gonna have to make the decision you think is right. Will we go through this tomorrow is not really a valid thought process for deciding on whether someone is scum today, though. Did you vote with me on Hiro on gut? | ||
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Which of us is the lady? | ||
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On June 01 2012 07:44 Probulous wrote: Mattchew is still on SnB? I believe so, he was in our camp re lynching VE | ||
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On June 01 2012 08:05 supersoft wrote: OH YEAH LOOK AT THIS! WHO WAS RIGHT? WHO WAS? shut up, mr "VE is 90% scum" | ||
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On June 01 2012 08:17 jaj22 wrote: Apparently I need to use more gut and less brain. I wanna kill BH for lurking the run-up and then trying to cause a no-lynch. I wanna kill Mattchew for leaving his vote somewhere useless and then showing up immediately after the deadline. Yeah, I wanna look at BH as well. Don't understand the Mattchew thing so much, he didn't want to vote for VE and it didn't really matter so much where else his vote was. | ||
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On June 01 2012 08:16 Probulous wrote: You were here 14 minutes before the deadline and then three minutes after. Explain. Also this MUST NOT get buried. | ||
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On June 01 2012 08:58 Blazinghand wrote: Look at me? Lol you should be thanking me for trying to avert a mislynch. G32 should be #1 scum on everyone's list. Where were you for the whole evening? Thanking you for trying to avert a mislynch THAT YOU WERE ON? | ||
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On June 01 2012 09:14 EchelonTee wrote: Ok, maybe its cuz ur on your phone, but I KNOW you didn't say you thought VE is town. That's the whole point of our little disagreement. It doesn't make any sense for you to unvote VE UNLESS you think is town. But w.e, it's nbd I suppose. If you were scum, you wouldn't randomly unvote VE; there's no point to. You'd want the vig dead. I would totally buy this, except in LIII scum Risen vote-switched twice between two townies right on deadline and changed who was lynched. So it's not unprecedented. | ||
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On June 01 2012 09:17 EchelonTee wrote: It's not unprecendented I admit, but why would he vote switch away from a vig? A vig who happens to be VE? It ties up a RB slot for the scum team, and despite all the flack we give him, it's still VE. He's gone through a rough spot lately, but I've still seen games where he wrecks scum. A scum team wants VE dead, whether through mislynch or night shot. Yes, you're probably right. It just smells to me. And BH is right after all, Gambit looks absolutely atrocious at the moment. | ||
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On June 01 2012 09:18 EchelonTee wrote: I'm not calling BH confirmed town; I'm saying that this unvote shenanigans isn't a scumtell. Now tell me what you think of Jaj22. I don't think I'm quite seeing in that post whatever you're seeing. jaj has basically been a soft town-read for me all game. We've obsQTed quite a few games together and he basically 'plays' similarly to those. | ||
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On May 30 2012 10:26 Manason wrote: A lot of people are apparently making hasty votes, the day just began. We have roughly 45 hours to decide who is Scum and while you can change your vote why not focus the pressure on someone who is more likely to read the forum. ##Vote Kitaman Hasty votes --->> hasty vote. On May 30 2012 13:11 Manason wrote: I'm behind you on Kita. Kita or Zealous, those are the two I'd be happy to see lynched. I think we need to start putting some pressure on these two and see what they have to say in their defence. On May 30 2012 02:09 Manason wrote: While I do agree with you about Zealos and Kita, I can't say I agree with you on myself. And the obvious question I'm going to ask you is why me? On May 31 2012 12:35 Manason wrote: As you wish. Also note that I have previously stated I'm for the lynching of Kita or Zealous. So don't come at me and say that I'm just mad that your calling for a vig shot. VisceraEyes: He's for lynching Kita, so I want to work with him for now. ... Hassybaby: I'm not for lynching the lurkers at the moment as we have better targets that are active. Like Kita and Zealous. kitaman unsurprisingly asks him what his case actually is: On May 31 2012 12:48 Manason wrote: To be completely honest, I have no reasoning as to why I think your scum other than intuition, and I want you to defend yourself as it will either make me change my mind about voting you or provide more information. My enemy is scum, if your town please, convince me. I hate this 'to be honest' wording. Only intuition. He says 'I want you to defend yourself' - how is kita supposed to defend himself from Manason? There's no case to answer... On May 31 2012 15:43 Manason wrote: Sorry VE, but theres a lot of evidence making you look bad. ##Unvote: Kitaman ##Vote: VisceraEyes However I still do look forward to what you have on Kita, If it's good enough you might have a chance to not get lynched. Going back to my line of reasoning during the lynch, Manason is one of those voting for VE because there is 'good evidence'. We are not graced with any idea of what parts of the evidence he agrees with. All in all, Manason so far has thought Zealos, Kita, and VE are scum. Just for the sake of completeness, I will sum up Manason's cases on them all (and by sum up, I mean write the entire cases he has written): Zealos: ... kitaman: no reasoning, intuition VE: good evidence. This is appearing to scumhunt without scumhunting of the highest order. He's posted enough times but actually has zero content. Bandwagoning when convenient, abandoning his 2 earlier reads just like that. This dude looks like scum to me. | ||
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On June 01 2012 22:50 strongandbig wrote: Ugh. I'm so bad at this game. I'm officially taking mattchew off of my scum list. I think I tend to tunnel people who attack me for stupid reasons, and this looks like a case of that. Marv, do you think kita is scum as well, and Manson was distancing himself from kita and zealos at the same time? I agree with you that his filter looks terrible though. I don't know about kita atm, getting a coherent opinion on him together is gonna take me quite a bit of time that I won't have until later this evening. Hard to say what Manason was doing, because there was so bloody little reasoning behind his suspects. The other interesting thing of note in his filter is that the only time he presents cogent thoughts was when talking about the mayoral election. He is able to elucidate quite clearly who and why he is voting for. This clarity is suddenly absent when looking for scum. Also I think Matt's trap point is retarded. Don't let it bother you unless he actually has a proper case to present. | ||
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On June 01 2012 23:29 Manason wrote: Ok well there is something I want to make clear right now. I never thought VE was Scum. The reason why I gave him a vote was because I was suspicious by the whole bread crumb deal, added on to the fact that he was going to get lynched and I would rather a VE lynch than a no-lynch. For the people saying that I don't provide any evidence, you guys don't seem to be quoting anything in my filter to prove I'm scum either, although I would give you the benefit of the doubt as it is night, I expect something tomorrow and as a show of good will I will make a complete case against who I think is scum. I know this isn't going to go in my favor and probably harm my chances even more, but I'm lazy and don't want to go digging through peoples filters and making a case. I like to leave that to the vets. Like I've already said though I'll attempt a case D3. Remind me for a moment how a complete lack of scumhunting and voting for a townie lynch isn't scummy | ||
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On June 02 2012 03:25 Mattchew wrote: Yo, manason's logic is so backwords and shit, that I think its actually genuine and he believes it. His attempt to explain his (albeit stupid) logic actually gives me a fairly strong town read on him. I could be wrong and getting played by the "newb card" but I just fail to see how someone with teammates and in their first (i believe) game would a. bus zealos that early along with maybe bussing kita should he flip scum b. type something that unbelievably suspicious in the thread with teammates that would tell him not to post that c. type that freely in the thread, as to say I don't sense hesitation or a fear of looking scummy, I just sense a guy who doesn't want to be lynched. Like BH I don't buy the newb card. Have you already forgotten Magic where Zealos said he was happy to lynch a townie day 1, and that was under Katina's guidance? | ||
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1) the odd reaction to VE's death, 2) his original case on VE. The problem with the case was it boils down to "VE is play like VE guyz! lynch him!" Especially he quotes a post from VE who is calling people scum and says "The confidence coming from this post is not townlike". Well, perhaps not normal-townlike, but it's certainly VE town-like, or at least it doesn't indicate in any way whatsoever VE's alignment. 3) he lets MZ do the hard-pushing of VE Most of the rest of his filter doesn't really read that scummily. The question is, how much weight is it correct to assign to these points? Enough to condemn him out of hand? EchelonTee - I was having a gander at your filter, and I couldn't quite see where your DIE DIE DIE #vote kita came from. Even after VE flipped I didn't see this brewing, but now after the daypost utter certainty. Why are you so sure now? I have to read again kita's case on Wiggles as well as Wiggles filter. To the rest of you, it's a bit premature to be saying "lol bus!". | ||
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On June 02 2012 19:48 EchelonTee wrote: Read the thread Yus, and it went from you being a bit suspicious of kita to DIE DIE DIE with no explanation in between. Don't patronise me. | ||
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wbg: given kita's head is on the chopping block, what do you make of his stance that he can't be clear whether Gambit is scum? This confuses me as I'd expect kita to be positive about lynching gambit if he was scum | ||
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I'm still surer about Gambit though | ||
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On June 03 2012 01:14 EchelonTee wrote: It's hard not to patronize when I put him on a KILL list last night, like twice. And I explained it. You didn't read closely enough. You implied that I made some huge shift, which is hilarious. killing g32 would probably be sounder, to reduce kp. he doesn't have an ounce of being indignant or upset that he is being pressured (common town noob tells, think Sputnik.theory),.it's highly likely he's scum. Ill switch my vote to him when I'm on a cpu At the risk of making a mountain out of a molehill, you put him on a kill list of like 4 or 5 people, and then today it's definitely him and not someone else. Somewhat made moot by the rest of your post there... | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On June 01 2012 21:25 marvellosity wrote: Probulous - I'm curious what you find 'ok' about Manason's filter. I took a look and there's just a shitload of tunneling on Zealos and especially kita without anything to back it up. Hasty votes --->> hasty vote. kitaman unsurprisingly asks him what his case actually is: I hate this 'to be honest' wording. Only intuition. He says 'I want you to defend yourself' - how is kita supposed to defend himself from Manason? There's no case to answer... Going back to my line of reasoning during the lynch, Manason is one of those voting for VE because there is 'good evidence'. We are not graced with any idea of what parts of the evidence he agrees with. All in all, Manason so far has thought Zealos, Kita, and VE are scum. Just for the sake of completeness, I will sum up Manason's cases on them all (and by sum up, I mean write the entire cases he has written): Zealos: ... kitaman: no reasoning, intuition VE: good evidence. This is appearing to scumhunt without scumhunting of the highest order. He's posted enough times but actually has zero content. Bandwagoning when convenient, abandoning his 2 earlier reads just like that. This dude looks like scum to me. Since my case: On June 01 2012 23:29 Manason wrote: Ok well there is something I want to make clear right now. I never thought VE was Scum. Very little to say about that one really. Not accepting anyone's 'too dumb to be scum' defence. I caught scum Zealos in the exact same thing in Magic. On June 02 2012 10:31 Manason wrote: ##Vote Kitaman I will post a case later. This was almost a full day ago. Die scum die. ##Vote: Manason | ||
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On June 03 2012 17:22 Probulous wrote: Gambit what happened to you? You had so much potential and then you started hanging out with the wrong crowd. Kita offers you a ciggie and next thing you know you're snorting crack from Zealos' butt-cheeks. Peer pressure, it makes you do crazy things. All sounds quite appealing :p And no, I do not think Manason is going to get lynched today. But if anything was going to get him to post something constructive, it was a case and a vote. As it is, Manason is going the way of Zealos and Gambit, and he is on my scumlist. I remain more confident in a Gambit lynch than a kita lynch, so ##Unvote ##Vote: Gambitx32 | ||
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On June 04 2012 21:59 Toadesstern wrote: I'm not implying marv knows to much. I wanted to hear from someone who I thought to be townie how he understoof my role. Sadler it never came to it because if he told me "you make a circle with multiple people n1" that would prove to me that at least people who are reading thought the way I wanted them to think. Hyaach looks odd for knowing too much as well unless the majority or at least a bunch of people thought that way as well. That's why I asked marv, and because he was around although he never answered  Sorry love, I had to go out birthday shopping for my other half. I'm confused though. My understanding was that you got to set up your circle N1 and that was it, and that MZ was in it and we didn't know any more than that. Not sure what you're saying this page - what did you lie about? Are you masoned with MZ (+ others?)? | ||
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On June 05 2012 05:56 Manason wrote: I am confused, can someone please tell me what's going on with Toad and his circle? I am confused, I'm sure you said you were going to make a case on kita but I can't for the life of me find it | ||
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On June 05 2012 17:15 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: well probulous this has provided an interesting twist. I just got done with your filter and I don't think you're lying about your role, however I'm not convinced kita is either. I do see kita as probably the best target for a frame. Think about it, WBG, Toad, and I all got confirmed really fast. Wiggles is mister lurker, ET has been flitting around, what better target to frame than kita? Many people have called his play out so he's a great choice to frame. Since it's 1am I'm going to sleep on this so I don't make any decisions rashly, I have no desire to repeat the VE disaster  Also if there is a medic out there then CC ONLY IF YOU CAN SHOW A SOLID BREADCRUMB TO YOUR SAVE AND YOUR NIGHT PROTS the last thing we want is for scum to CC and have kita lynched because the thread doesn't like him and would believe just about any CC that gets posted. Just read both claims and the ensuing responses and my head hurts a bit. There's an unaccounted for save Day 1. Either kitaman performed the save or he did not. If he did not then someone else did and they should claim and we lynch kita. I do not understand Probulous' view that this would simply out the real medic. kitaman is correct in that potentially lynching a townie is a MUCH bigger downside than revealing the medic. The only thing that gives me pause is MZ's post here about how scum can counterclaim. What do you suggest, or what do you think the scenario is, if the medic did not breadcrumb? That they keep quiet and we go ahead and lynch kita after all? | ||
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1) there is no counter-claim, so kita is town medic because of the Meapak save 2) there is a counter-claim, with two options A- real medic is counterclaiming, we lynch kita and he flips scum B- scum are counterclaiming, we lynch kita who flips town then we lynch the scum In other words there are 3 outcomes, the first being we avoid lynching the town medic, the second being kita scum is lynched but a medic is outed, the third being we lynch our town medic but we get a confirmed scum lynch. Apparently it is the second outcome that Probulous is wary of. In other words it all boils down to the question: are people so sure that kitaman is scum that they are convinced he cannot be telling the truth, i.e. we lynch kita scum but we don't out a medic. I'm not sure enough to take this chance. kita is 3rd on my potential scumlist (behind manason, papa - post to come on those 2 later), so the chance that we're lynching our doctor is a bit too high. If you're the real medic you should counterclaim. | ||
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Manason, the brazen newbie scum Taking a slightly different tack on this one. I'm about to take up a bunch of room with some quotes, but I put them here specifically to illustrate my point. Manason was quite willing to openly discuss and engage in the debate for mayor: On May 27 2012 13:54 Manason wrote: Assuming that Grush is going to be a bad townie is in my opinion a bad move. Give everyone a chance and the fact that your so set on killing this guy makes me wonder as to how easily you'll decide someone else is guilty. I'm all fine with someone who is set on making town lose die, but give him a chance first and condemn later. Rash decisions are what makes town lose. On May 27 2012 14:03 Manason wrote: I did indeed, and regardless I still believe that every game is different and it is only fair to disregard previous player actions. As I said before if there is no change in the way Gush conducts himself on the first day, by all means the mayor may lynch him. But I believe in a mayor that makes an informed decision based on actions in the current game rather than lynching him based on what he "might" do. So here we have Manason taking a stance on the 'lynch grush' mayoral campaign(s). On May 27 2012 23:52 Manason wrote: I'm leaning more towards Mr. Wiggles at this point. He's the only one who has given complete sound reasoning on why he should be vice-leader. He promises to basically never use it. So if he does he's either just a bad townie, or scum. And he knows we'd lynch him. There is only one reason I can find not to trust him which is, Assuming he is scum he wants the position so a townie can't get it and so that closer to the endgame it can become the difference between a scum win and a townie win. Also I don't know if this has already been brought up, but assuming the mayor is a good townie I think it's reasonable to believe that they'll be killed the first night, after all why would scum want a good townie in a position with double votes, it can only be bad for them. So we should start looking a little bit more closely at our mayor candidates, because if any of them have brains they've already figured it out they'll be dead the first night unless they're scum of course. A reasoned out post on why he thinks Wiggles is the best candidate. Points here and there explaining his actions. Next we have the setup for his subsequent play. Not sure why so little was made of this at the time: On May 29 2012 13:25 Manason wrote: I voted for Mr. Wiggles because I trusted that he would make a good lynch, so I'm curious as to who he would want to lynch because to be honest I don't have the time nor will power to sit here and analyze everyone. I'd rather someone who I know is better than me to be suspicious and then I can form my own opinion on the matter. The people on my radar I would rather not say because I have zero evidence to back up my claims other than pure intuition, which could be wrong. So no use making enemies when no one will believe me anyway. Read: I will not make cases and I'm probably not gonna make cases. Jeez. This is townie? No. It's been said before, but I'm trying to consolidate here: On May 31 2012 15:43 Manason wrote: Sorry VE, but theres a lot of evidence making you look bad. ##Unvote: Kitaman ##Vote: VisceraEyes However I still do look forward to what you have on Kita, If it's good enough you might have a chance to not get lynched. On June 01 2012 23:29 Manason wrote: Ok well there is something I want to make clear right now. I never thought VE was Scum. Little explaining needed. As elsewhere in my filter, last game in Magic I caught Zealos scum for saying he lynched someone he thought was a townie day 1. On June 02 2012 10:31 Manason wrote: ##Vote Kitaman I will post a case later. Do we get a case? On June 05 2012 06:04 Manason wrote: I started to make a case, but it took to long and I decided to go play Skyrim. This is the brazen I'm talking about. Refusing to make cases and no-one is suspicious of him. I'd like to note an earlier comment he made here: On May 29 2012 11:17 Manason wrote: I know I haven't posted a lot you guys, which is mostly due to the fact that I've been on vacation and hardly have found the time to read all the posts much less post myself. This was quite near the start, explaining his not-great deal of posting on vacation. Except now he's not on vacation, he's posting even less of content, using other terrible excuses (playing Skyrim?!) Conclusion: Sheeps a vote on VE, explaining he thought he was town Does not scumhunt, or promises to and fails to deliver Posts with good explanations and points during the mayoral debates, but the sum total of his scum analysis is this: On any fucking time at all Manason wrote: Scum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- papapanda, the wishy-washy scum: It's harder to pick out posts for wishywashyness here, but posts like these: On May 30 2012 07:46 papapanda wrote: Supersoft, I feel like you have been contradicting yourself through the game. You changed your own priority for targets quite a bit. Vigging Wiggles, are you serious? He said he was lynching sinensis, if he had changed target last second, that would have been more alarming. Sorry what is your position for toad once again? I don't feel like we forced him to claim anything. You seem to be one of the few that is OK with his play. What is the "obvious" reason for him to mason you? Claiming vig is tough. As there is really no way to confirm you in terms of methods as toad is using, you can't call the shot beforehand. As Toad already picked his buddy, I just want to say that I will be worried if you are the one who claims mason for him. Lots of questions as with much of his filter in general. This is the kind of post that's a post for the sake of it. On June 01 2012 06:12 papapanda wrote: Grush, if you starsense is telling you VE is not scum, don't vote for him...vote for who you believe to be scum; I would recommend wriggles(long as its not me) Gambit didn't respond yet, if he ninjas today he is dead tomorrow. The only reliable way I can think of to confirm VE is 1)tell him who to shoot 2)someone protect the target 3) target tells us whats up. Before you post comments on why this is a stupid plan, I want to say that I agree it's a stupid plan and this is not going to happen tonight because so many things can go wrong. #Vote:VE This post is obviously the big one. It just screams scum. Don't vote for VE! Wiggles is more likely scum, vote for him! Except I will vote for VE! The reason he's voting for VE? The plan to confirm his vig shot is flawed. Well where the fuck does that say VE is scum? It just doesn't. As far as single condemning posts go, this one is pretty high up the list. The saga goes on, because he's pressed on it: On June 01 2012 06:43 papapanda wrote: Both you and I have read MZ's cases, as well as other posts, can we agree that his points are valid? However as I was reading it, I was, using your term, on the fence for VE's lynch. What I didn't like was how he responded to the pressure. He claimed vig, one the the toughest role to prove at this stage of the game. Ofcourse it's possible he is vig, and what ticked for me was what he said about if he was the mafia leader, the mafia would try more to save him...(can't find the post, but I'm pretty certain that I read it today). Wifom doesn't work as defenses...(learned that the hard way last game, marvellosity;p). Anyhow, my point is I find VE scummy and people trying to spread the vote are also worth looking at(hi kenpachi). More bad, just everywhere. At the start, he's just saying "MZ made a good case no? didn't he just?" But still NO explanation from him on what HE finds particularly scummy. Then again we have him talking about vig for most of his post. Between his last post and this one we have him spending most of the time talking about the vig part, which is actually relatively pretty unimportant. He concludes by saying 'I find VE scummy'. Why? How? ... On June 01 2012 07:12 papapanda wrote: VE has been contradicting himself through the game. The thing about playing completely different playstyle, day-game and night-game, is just bullocks. VE's vote-jumping I dislike. VE's responses are inappropriate as a town. Marv, May I ask you what part of the case you find invalid? The day-night game difference. I'm pretty sure that was supersoft that said this, not VE. So we can scratch that as a non-point. VE's vote-jumping is null, and the third point, his responses are 'inappropriate'? What does this even mean? I'm going on a bit now but everything about papapanda's vote on VE and his subsequent explanation reeks of scum. For further reading, here is his filter from LIV where he was town. He's more open, more engaging, less afraid to post. There's an honesty and lack of deception in his filter in LIV that does not seem present here. Conclusion: wishy washy Terrible, terrible vote and subsequent explanation on VE (main point!) less contributory than as town in LIV Scum. | ||
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Kenpachi always plays low content and generally 'scummily'. The post you quoted that you found scummy came before we were aware of where several of the power roles lay. Mr Wiggles hasn't been as active as I'd like, especially after he ran for mayor. But I followed the entirety of Liar game and Wiggles was always on that same cusp of not posting very much, and with a lot of questions, that didn't look great. Except he flipped town. Basically those two players haven't made me go 'bazing! scum!' like Manason and papa. | ||
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Prob, opinions on my cases? | ||
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I quoted that as an example of filler post just because I find most of his posts like that - filler. We're not quite seeing eye to eye on the VE vote thing. You get a town vibe from it, but I don't know in what world a townie votes to lynch someone while at the same time trying to persuade someone to move their vote off their favoured lynch target. Not only this but he can't even really explain WHY VE is his favoured lynch target. | ||
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Didn't do this before, so ##Vote: Manason | ||
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On June 06 2012 21:45 Toadesstern wrote: I'm not including myself in a list of feared town vets. I'm including myself in a list of vets and yes I did that before. 'Didn't do this before' was referring to myself on the voting, not you ^^ austin: the mafia roleblocker (Gambit) is dead too as well as toad saying he can't be rb'ed | ||
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On June 06 2012 21:54 Toadesstern wrote: Ok just one question: Except for mana does this look bad? That's a lot of people I consider to be townies. And we need 8 people on someone. Do you really want to get on mana instead? So you're suggesting you'd prefer people voting for the claimed medic with no counter-claim instead? | ||
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On June 07 2012 02:42 Hassybaby wrote: He's gone for a few hours. You're thinking the bandwagon is too easy? Hassy, I read it that ET was ??ing about the move to get people off Manason. I had a look at Maju's filter. It doesn't look great for 2 reasons 1) the low content to post ratio as ET mentioned. 2) the lol didn't read thread! syndrome. There's a pretty good chance he's scum. He just doesn't push anything, a comment here, a question there, a weird little case-let on stofu that he never pushes. marv's order of scumminess from absolute scum to scum is thusly Manason, papapanda, Maju. | ||
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On June 07 2012 06:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote: So is it just that no one is here, or do people just not want to switch their votes? Is no one going to address that Manason reads and feels more like a clueless new player than scum? Remember my vote counts double, so we only need 6 other people to vote maju. Manason is 1. With MZ and Toad, that's 3. So, only 3 others need to switch to kill Maju. Your defence of Manason seems to be that he's too scummy to be scum. It's just not a defence. I've mentioned twice already this game that scum Zealos got caught in Magic admitting he voted for a townie, and he had Katina on his team to 'coach' him. The fact that he was willing to discuss the mayoral elections but NEVER on scum analysis is pretty damning. He's not even responded when kita gave him an explicit chance to earlier (Zealos and gambit were pushed to contribute earlier this game and did not, and we know how they flipped). So when Manason doesn't contribute he's townie because the scumteam would have told him to, but when Zealos/Gambit didn't the scumteam were doing what? | ||
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On June 07 2012 19:48 EchelonTee wrote: bleh I feel like a stupid noob for lynching Manason over Maju. What I wrote earlier: Is still mostly true; all that has changed is a weak case on Hassybaby (green checked) and papapanda (one of the other massively suspected people). Think of it this way - Manason's town flip just makes it even more likely that Maju/papa will flip scum. | ||
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On June 08 2012 08:07 Toadesstern wrote: Ok MZ is confirmed town. I am confirmed town. Kill that Maju-dude because I say so. For once I am not going to argue with you, because this time I agree with you papapanda next though.##Vote: MazuGarjett | ||
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On June 08 2012 08:35 Toadesstern wrote: You played PYP as well marv, right? You know why I am suggesting it I guess. Thoughts? I was having a bit of a moment there, I needed that PYP reference ^^ I can't see any particular downsides unless i'm missing something blindingly obvious | ||
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On June 08 2012 08:56 Toadesstern wrote: Is ET dead? I have him dead in my sheet but don't remember him being dead oO Pretty sure he's alive dear | ||
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On June 08 2012 09:23 Probulous wrote: OKL, yeah this guy is scum. The only "cases" he has pushed are two weak ones on Hassy and Papapanda. He dropped the Hassy case after I pointed out the green check and he has not pushed his papapanda read at all. He hasn't added to it, he hasn't brought it up, he hasn't even asked people about it. He clearly doesn't want to be associated with it. Let's get this over with. Agreed. Gonna make my head hurt tomorrow trying to extract info from this kita business. I'm convinced papa is scum too of course. We need to not waste this whole day just waiting for Maju to flip. | ||
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On June 08 2012 09:34 Toadesstern wrote: well the 4th guy kinda depends on whats happening You're sure on Hyaach then? | ||
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It seems a weird agenda for scum to push. kita flipping leads to wifom territory - so the question is if he used talking about kita/mz ad nauseum as a cover not to do other scumhunting. | ||
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On June 08 2012 10:15 Probulous wrote: I agree with Toad's reads. I find Hyaach scummy because he has been focusing on stuff that makes zero sense. Austin at least went back and re-evaluated (he looks pretty townie to me). Kenpachi has actively pushed Kita without explaining the MZ link despite being asked multiple times. I would suggest Maju->Kenpachi->Hyaach->Papapanda It doesn't really matter because that is my take on the scum team and they all need to be lynched. Yeah, I went over Hyaach today and I found where my soft town-read on him came from - plenty of his page 1 seems pretty decent. Unfortunately he also has a page 2 and a page 3. These pages are filled with aggressively pushed conspiracies (seemingly using the probably more well-meaning austin as a foil), casting suspicion around needlessly. This has also led to him shitting up the thread by arguing, using the same rehashed points, with people like MZ/Toad over and over. It's the last bit that makes it worse. Basically he ignores whatever people are talking about to him to just continue making the same posts. Toad isn't always the clearest dude around to me, but it got to the point where even I was like, for fuck's sake, he's said multiple times who he masoned, when and why he said it. Not reading thread. My feeling last night that this was a cover for not doing actual scumhunting is confirmed. It's also a pretty strong mafia heuristic that scum start off the game usefully enough, but tail off in their usefulness/relevance as the game goes on, and that's also the case here. Scum. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This leaves scum #4. Logic tells me it should be Kenpachi. He obstinately pushes kitaman over and over. He never addresses how MZ fits into the kitaman-sure-fire-scum scenario. He basically doesn't read the fucking thread. He calls Wiggles useless but he's been exactly the same - his blind-pushing of kita meant he did nothing else for days. I just can't make myself be as sure as I want about it though :/ He called out papapanda super early and I agree completely with it. I just can't quite pick out how important it is. And it's Kenpachi. Wiggles has the green check. ET's right though, the chance he was framed or godfather is high enough that it can't and shouldn't be blindly accepted. I defended Wiggles on Liar meta earlier, but it's like we're always waiting for him to post significantly, but when he does post, it leaves you wanting more. Somewhat speculatively, it seems like his defence of Manason could have come from the privileged position of prior knowledge of his alignment. Help meeeeee | ||
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On June 08 2012 19:53 Hyaach wrote: Yes Im implying if Maju flips scum wiggles is town. and i know my case on MZ/Kita is not played out well but Toad refusing to answer me his mason target got me suspicious of his alignment. Note I asked on day 2. I asked on day 3. He answer only on day 4 when both have already died. Then Austinmcc came up with the theory and it looked like it clicked with my suspicions of toad so i went ahead with the theory and pushing it hard. If I was mafia, Not pushing that case would have easily allowed me to survive today where it is lylo. Disregarding my kita/mz case, do you have a scum read on me? If I disregarded this, you wouldn't have posted in a week, that's the point... everything from the way you pushed it, didn't read replies, repeated yourself is scummy. Who do YOU think are scum then? | ||
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On June 08 2012 20:43 Hyaach wrote: That's true too haha. Papa and Maju. Rather Lynch Papa first. about the last two. [b]I have no idea but I would not cross hassybaby out from the suspect list. People had been urging him to post thus framing him everynight wouldn't seem like a bad thing or he could be GF More didn't read thread. He's dead. Scum. | ||
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Toad, he FoS Hassy AFTER hassy died | ||
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On June 09 2012 17:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: guys I would like us to lynch papanda today. This is random. Care to explain? | ||
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On June 11 2012 08:45 Toadesstern wrote: We need every single out of our 5 townies to vote this guy. If one townie votes someone else we lose the game! ##vote papapanda I had papapanda and Hyaach as the two I wanted to lynch today, with papapanda first choice, so: ##Vote: papapanda | ||
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On June 11 2012 14:50 EchelonTee wrote: urghhh. no one thinks about possibility that they are both scum? Honestly I feel worst with a papa lynch. I feel best with a hyaach lynch. I am most convinced by papa, with hyaach following. LIV I was scum | ||
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My main worry/paranoia is that somehow we get it wrong on ken/wiggles. But I think if Mr.2-vote Wiggles is alive after we lynch papa and Hyaach then I will be feeling much more confident. | ||
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- A bazillion lines in self defence - barely one line on who is actually scum. That about cover it guys? | ||
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On June 13 2012 01:07 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Except the scum can be found purely through the process of elimination. I don't need to make big long cases when they aren't necessary to know who is scum. Unless I'm wrong about you being town, of course. The only thing cases serve now is to convince people to lynch scum instead of town (myself). So, part of that is showing how I'm town. Thus my defense. The other part is showing that someone other than you is scum. And that's probably the more important part. | ||
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On June 13 2012 01:51 papapanda wrote: 06-11-2012 02:49 PM ET (US) I posted my FoS on Hyaach quite early on in the game, and as the game has unfolded his posting changed quite a bit, making my accusations less significant. However, the main reason I changed my lynch target priorities to Wiggles and Kenpachi was because from the flips we have three non-veteran players for the mafia, so it is more likely that the rest of the mafia are selected from a higher experience level. Putting Hyaach's or my name alongside with the mafia list is too imbalanced. So I removed hyaach from my lynch priority. As for my push for Kenpachi, it's fine if you do not think he is scummy, but please do not lynch me because I find him scummy. If anything, I would call this action to be chainsaw defense. Town, PLEASE, review the case for yourself, and not rely on "traps" to catch our scum. I will vote for Kenpachi right now. rofl | ||
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On June 13 2012 11:04 EchelonTee wrote: Those are some pretty good points toad. Why haven't you died for so long? Kenpachi or Wiggles both know you're a solid player, and ur a confirmed Mason; your conclusion makes sense on the Kenpachi thing. I'm going to re-read somethings before the night... I'd like some focus on Hyaach. The only thing that gives me pause is papapanda's early pressure onto Hyaach, and papa doesn't seem like the bussing type to me. Who knows, though. I think I'm convinced that Wiggles is Mafia. I just feel so queasy though because I've mislynched Wiggles (as scum) in two of my previous games; Wiggles is often a lategame mislynch -.- I had a look over Hyach and there was not that much there to make me change my read... he's flailing. We already know about the kita/MZ stuff. The fact he didn't read the thread is horrible. Hassybaby dies and he FoS Hassy. How can you not read day/night posts? Toad calls for all townies to vote papapanda and Hyaach votes Wiggles. Hyaach gets an (odd) townread on Wiggles because of the Maju/Manason votes. But now he's asking us to lynch Wiggles ahead of him? Because town decided it's him and Wiggles, so Wiggles should go first? Still, I can't somehow bring myself to be as decisive on Hyaach as I felt on papa/maju. He's either lost town or he's scum who's been hung out to dry. At this stage it has to be him or ken though, and I'm a lot more confident on Hyaach than I am on Ken. Hyaach - who are the two remaining scum? | ||
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what say everyone else? | ||
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##Vote: Mr Wiggles | ||
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On June 15 2012 11:14 EchelonTee wrote: Good thing wiggles didn't get pardoner, eh? xp yes, indeed. An ability well sat on by you. | ||
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I can't shake the feeling that Hyaach is mafia. He hasn't done anything to convince otherwise. ET, Toad, and I all came to the same conclusion on him and not even on the exact same reasoning. We're going to talk ourselves out of the correct kill. Hyaach is scum. Mafia characteristic is for scum to be useful at the start and tail away as the game goes on because they cannot find anything to be constructive about, and that fits the bill perfectly here. | ||
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##Vote: Hyaach | ||
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sorry austin, wasn't playing with you, needed to set up kenpachi lynch in case there was a blue protective role i didn't know about | ||
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On June 17 2012 08:45 jaj22 wrote: Yeah, nice day 2 trick. I had you as #1 for a bit but in the end I decided that Austin was more likely. Should have stuck with the conspiracy theories. why not ken? | ||
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this game was quite lonely <3 ken | ||
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quite gratifying ^^ | ||
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On June 17 2012 11:24 kitaman27 wrote: Has anyone ever checked the framer target and the godfather in the same game? This might be a first! :p To anyone who wondered about the Hassy kill we were paranoid that kita wouldn't protect Prob and we wanted a guaranteed kill Probulous being alive for another cycle was totally undangerous for us. Wiggles would come up green, he was never checking me, and we framed Hyaach on the night we left Prob alive. Really Wiggles was a bad choice of check and it should have been papa, who I didn't care if he showed up red, or Hyaach, who would have actually made our game easier. Probey, I still love you. Consider this the stag do where I did some naughty things with a stripper on my lap, but it meant NOTHING, I promise <3 On June 17 2012 12:26 jaj22 wrote: Edit: Oh yeah, that Maju quote wasn't supposed to be some kind of smoking gun. It was funny at the time and differently funny after the flips. I thought Maju handled that situation pretty well by only incriminating himself. I was adamant in QT that people who were going to die would give nothing away | ||
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On June 17 2012 21:54 supersoft wrote: Probulus. You outed me as blue :-( G_G i/we didn't notice, it's not why we shot you | ||
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I had noticed supersoft went weird but didn't put 2 and 2 together myself, or when Probe pointed it out lol. Didn't work so much for him because we completely ignored that and simply considered him quite dangerous. VE was just a hunch of mine. | ||
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On June 18 2012 07:33 slOosh wrote: Oh cool game ended. First thing I want to say is thank anyone who has helped host a game. It used to be just a formality / footnote in every OP for me, but after this experience I can really express my gratitude for the people who help run / facilitate this forum section that we can have such fun. And I suppose I stop using blue bold text now. Sad. Maybe I'll do an analysis of ObsQT or something if I have time. Haha, good times in the ObsQT. P.s. Marv who would you have shot if town no lynched? Would you shoot austin because it would be harder to mislynch him or keep him because you were manipulating him in MasonQT? My favourite bit about the whole obsQT was you trying to nudge people towards the right answer, unsuccessfully  no-lynch? gosh, I hadn't considered that at all. I knew I had to shoot austin after Hyaach lynched if by some horrible stroke of luck ken or austin were vet or something. But hmmm. I may not shoot at all, or I would shoot austin. I can't shoot kenpachi, because Hyaach would never shoot kenpachi if he were the actual scum. I think I'd have to hold my shot (maybe?), but I would have had to lay the groundwork for it by seeming unsure about the lynch myself. But the possibility of a no lynch wasn't an option. edit: toad, you know i would never have shot into hyaach/ken, lol | ||
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P.S. greymist, probably the insane amount of bussing too | ||
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On June 19 2012 01:28 Hyaach wrote: the incredible amount of spam in the first day actually caught me offguard. lol welcome to fullsized normals :D | ||
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On June 19 2012 08:07 kitaman27 wrote: Generally by noticing a player who has found the entire scum team is still alive by endgame. The problem here was that there were so many confirmed townies. That really really helped me out. kita/mz/hassy (sort of)/toad/probulous/ET | ||
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On June 19 2012 08:13 GreYMisT wrote: No one is confirmed until the game ends. But yea, if they are still alive, something is up yo not really true in this case. that's trite and here there were clearly confirmed townies. I benefited massively from being unconfirmed. | ||
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but in this case I had so many other people to nightkill that it wasn't so suspicious. Like, if someone tried it this endgame I'd be like "they should have left confirmed townie ET alive then?!" and that would be the end of it | ||
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On June 19 2012 08:24 Probulous wrote: I am so confused Heading into end game there were plenty of confirmed town to choose from so that alllowed you to shoot someone else and not look suspicious. So in this case, people being confirmed worked against town. Correct, in this particular instance having plenty of confirmed town helped me out a shit-ton. Imagine I went through say the last 2 nights surviving while a bunch of random other dudes died, but I somehow lived. At some point the question is "why is he alive?". But as there were so many confirmed townies I avoided that fate | ||
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 edit: like, I didn't come into this game thinking "lol i'm gonna bus my whole team". I went with what I thought was optimal play at the time | ||
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edit: because if you 'caught' the whole scumteam the argument can just be thrown back in your face you can't have your cake and eat it too | ||
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Honestly I thought the VE thing was fairly neutral, bussing Zealos super-early was what helped me really Probability says next time we play together I'm town, so np <3 Edit: I went after manason for 2 reasons, 1) i needed to get a mislynch in between all the scum falling, and 2) i needed to be shown not to be right all the time | ||
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I buddy as either alignment And you don't qualify your 'quite a lot of scum agenda' that I was apparently pushing I'll give you a weak late-game but really nothing was going on to be strong about :/ | ||
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hindsight is 20/20 I guess ^^ | ||
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