Newbie Mini Mafia XIII - Page 5

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austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

May 18 2012 00:05 GMT

#537

Firm, I'd like to see your case on Bio, but this confirms him in my eyes and my vote will be on him tomorrow.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

May 18 2012 22:27 GMT

#551

Looks like everyone wanted to play their cards close to the vest tonight. I'm still squarely placing BioSC as scum. A couple thoughts, before night ends and before I've got to leave for the night.

- His playstyle changed as of D3, after mufaa died. Whereas before, we had some reads from now-confirmed townies that he was scummy for playing passive and defensive, all of a sudden he starts to be a lot more (pro)active. This post - + Show Spoiler +

On May 18 2012 04:49 BioSC wrote:Something else I've thought about last night before I went to bed, was the possibility of us 4 discussing/bringing up topics in this day vote (You, Me, Tofu, Anacletus) are all Town, and that the remaining mafia members are the lurkers waiting to come in and swing vote whomever has the most votes at the time. With Tofu's case against me coming up, I highly suspect he will be voting for me, and possibly dragging Anacletus along with him. That would still leave you with the lynch, unless of course votes are swapped.

Say you believe that us 4 are town. You've at least stated that you believe that You, FirmTofu, and Anacletus are town. If you had to lynch a lurker by your own definition, who reads as strongest scum to you? At this point, hitting a lurker feels more right to me, again, tough to say based on my own case against Ana.

It's fine if you read me as scum. I want to prove to town that I'm not. My unvote I hope moves thought in that direction. I feel that if you believe me as scum, I have more to risk by unvoting Anacletus and discussing a lynch on lurkers more than if I kept with my vote on Ana.

It's not something I'm completely 100% sold on, but I feel like the possibility of us 4 being all town needs to come up.

- felt slightly out of place. He has a sudden change of heart, now wants to actively look at lurkers, whereas before he'd been busy calling out Anac and I. He has this the day after mufaa gets vigied.

- My thought process on that is that, before Mufaa got shot, D3 was MYLO. All mafia had to do was push one mislynch and they win. It was going to be 5/3, a lynch and a nightkill would give them even numbers and then win. However, the vig shot caught scum off guard and brought the numbers to 5/2. Now D3 is no longer MYLO, and their plans are in trouble. Whereas before, BioSC had been pushing Anac, all of a sudden he stops. Anac may have seemed like an easy target to push for a mislynch, but now if we lynch him and he flips green, the game's not guaranteed anymore.

- That explains the change in playstyle, because whereas before he'd been able to sit back, now mufaa is dead and scum's plans have to change somewhat. He pushes lurkers, and specifically mentions Hyaach before I vote for Hyaach. I'm alright with that lynch, but I don't love that he suggests the target without a vote himself, only joining later. Looking back, should have been more vocal about targeting the one lurker that was in a different time zone and might not jump to his own defense.

- Also, note the people who have been suspicious of BioSC throughout the game. + Show Spoiler +

On May 14 2012 12:06 BioSC wrote:
Honestly, the people that keep bringing me up are 3. Dahdum, Darkfire, and YOU.

. That was to Anac. We lynched dark, and dahdum got shot N3. Anac, it seems, is a town read for most of us at this point? That's what it looked like with people unvoting him yesterday at least. Which means we've got 2 confirmed town and a townread suspicious of Bio. Tofu mentions this as a possible reason for the N3 kill on dahdum. + Show Spoiler +

On May 18 2012 09:39 FirmTofu wrote:
I'll be dead by tomorrow, out of necessity for the mafia. It will be one less vote against Bio which I suspect is why they killed dahdum as well

I can work on a more substantial case during D4, but my main reasons for saying that BioSC is confirmed in my eyes is that he seemed scummy to a lot of town before, had that slightly scummy read on him. Then mufaa dies and his playstyle changes immensely. During the course of D3 he becomes helpful, drumming up discussion, suggesting votes, finally voting himself. Whereas before he'd playing so passively and defensively, and had been tunneling Anac for a bit. I think he steers the vote onto lurkers D3 so as not to get either Anac or I lynched D3, which would cause some trouble for him D4 once we flip green. All of a sudden with mufaa dead you don't need 1 mislynch, you've got a get a new strat together that covers two days.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

May 18 2012 22:41 GMT

#552

D3 also weakened my town read on FirmTofu, and here's why.

- Some bits always seemed a little weird. His massive D1 accusation compilation, for instance. + Show Spoiler +

. In and of itself, I don't get anything from that. Maybe he's trying to be helpful, maybe he's trying to gum up the thread and create a lot of random discussion topics.

- On D2, he keeps some votes off BioSC. + Show Spoiler +

On May 15 2012 07:59 FirmTofu wrote:
Unforgiven, please vote Darkfire. This is our only shot. I believe AT LEAST 2/3 votes on BioSC are mafia.

This is all or nothing.

On May 15 2012 08:06 FirmTofu wrote:

Show nested quote +

Consider this, Day 1 you accused BioSC of mafia with a single-minded focus then Day 2 randomly decided he was town. Then when you were about to be voted to death, you decided to lynch him anyway. How is that not scummy yo?

If anything, your death should be attributed solely to you because you've made a very bad case for yourself.

. Again, not scummy in and of itself. But if you read BioSC as scum, it looks a little odd.

- Then he and Bio start off D3 early just kind of toying with each other. You give me your reads. No, you give me your reads. Oh stop it you, you go first. Neither hard calling the other out, explicitly, just sort of badgering each other. Perhaps, with mufaa dead, trying to put some distance between each other so even if one drops, the other gains some town cred?

- If that's your take, then the case on Bio doesn't matter at all. You see how D3 works. If town is suspicious of Bio, you post your case, claim some town cred, try to ride it to a solo victory. If they don't, you can still post it, or not, whatever. Anything that puts you and BioSC at odds is good now, because you need to create distance between the two remaining teammates.

- All the speculation about this case, this post, even if it appears and even if FirmTofu is town, has kind of harmed town. It helped to stifle SOME discussion of BioSC on D3, we sort of stopped discussing him waiting on that case (I know I did). It has stifled discussion N4, because nobody really wants to speak up until this thing is posted. No matter what the post contains, no matter how BioSC flips, town has suffered by waiting around for this magical case.

- Lastly, IF you read FirmTofu as scummy at all, then the medic request can feel off. We've seen 2 blues flip. That probably means another in the wings. If it's a medic, there's a decent chance that the NK gets protected. Absolute worst case scenario for mafia, because again, they've been planning for the MYLO day. NK makes it 3/2. A protect would keep us at 4/2, and really mess with plans if we lynch mafia, or another NK got protected, they're really in hot water. So by asking for the medic protect on himself, which is entirely reasonable given that we mostly read him as town, he can ensure that it won't be elsewhere and that tonight's shot doesn't get protted.

I am still mulling a BioSC/FirmTofu team over in my head. It's tough for me to fully come around on Firm, and to believe we had town lurking so hard and being inactive. But there's some odd interaction between the two after mufaa flips, and it shouldn't be overlooked. Literally woke up last night and started thinking about this, but wanted to wait and post. Again, waiting on Firm's post or case or excuses or anything has robbed town of any N4 discussion we may/may not have had.

This is posted in a bit of a rush before i have to leave, so let me know if anything in these two posts seems out of place. If the pieces don't fit. Heck, let me know if anyone else has been having similar suspicions.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

May 18 2012 22:45 GMT

#553

EBWOP: Forgot a point on Tofu.

- He notes that dahdum was suspicious of BioSC, and that might have been a reason to NK dahdum. However, dahdum was suspicious of BOTH of them, and in fact, brought up the possibility of the two being a team.

+ Show Spoiler +

On May 15 2012 13:34 dahdum wrote:
@FirmTofu - I noticed your play style this game is much more guarded than in the last game, and you were less active in this one early on (busy in QT?). When rereading your filters from both, it seems to me you are trying to be pro-town without really putting yourself out in front. Last game you also made a suspicion list (most to least) yourself as Town, yet flip out when I do the same in this game. Care to comment on this change in gameplay?

That accusation list must have taken a lot of effort, and looks pro-town, but how does it really help us? What did you unearth from that? Would you vote for BioSC?

On May 15 2012 13:45 dahdum wrote:

@BioSC - What is your read on FirmTofu? I'm convinced one or both of you is mafia, so I would find your thoughts interesting.

Also, other than that who would you vote for right now?

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

May 19 2012 02:24 GMT

#569

Jesus, that was well played. I was so suspicious of lurkers, but every time town got active I'd also get suspicious of some townies as well. At first I figured something was up when both of you guys popped up after I was calling you out, but those final posts were honest and I'd kind of backed off you.

Unforgiven, you did a really nice job and came off much townier compared to our other lurkers. I don't think I would have ended up pegging you for scum, with bio, firm, and crossfire all being higher on my radar.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

May 19 2012 02:37 GMT

#570

Tofu, did you send in that shot before my last couple posts or after?

I've got some postgame thoughts and questions, but would love to see obs qt if there was one, or any postgame thoughts from more experienced players, before posting them.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

May 19 2012 18:01 GMT

#574

I really enjoyed playing, and appreciate you guys hosting newbie games. REALLY started feeling noobish after pushing lynches on some townies and then hitting D3 where we just...didn't have as much info as we'd have liked.

Well played all, nice work mafia, looks like we were all pretty content to find each other suspicious and not keep pressuring you guys. I'm guessing we could have done better with the info we had, but you guys really didn't give up much and we didn't get a lot in the way of info out of our blue roles to close that gap.

At least in my head, that's my biggest takeaway for our town play. We had activity some days, not others, but really just never had anything concrete to work off of. I know that we shouldn't be reliant on our blue roles, and we did get our only scum kill off of hyaach's shot, but I felt like we didn't get much in the way of info from them. If everyone is suspicious and nobody is confirmed come D3, should we be looking to claim, even if you're not an info role, just to try and confirm a few townies? With good breadcrumbs or sensible claims, I feel like we maybe could have come up with a better lynch target than "Pick a lurker" (although man we got a little "unlucky"). I'm sure we could have reasoned through the lynch better, but if we'd have even just one blue confirmed it would have helped. I know the obs QT wasn't terrible active, but it didn't seem like the active observers nailed the scumteam either. Combination of good mafia play and town inactivity? Or mainly one of those?

Personally, I feel like I didn't play all that well. I think I was overly spammy at some points, but when I tried to cut back on that I ended up not posting at all. The mislynches I'm okay with, I thought I had decent reads and we had some agreement from others there. But I don't think I had a consistent idea of how I wanted to approach the game and play. D1 I tunneled hard on brood, D2 I tried to pull back and not push so hard for a darkfire lynch, and by the time D3 rolled around and crossfire was my top read, I just didn't want to push it because I knew I'd been wrong twice. Couldn't find any kind of sweet spot of exactly how much to trust myself, how vocal to be, and especially how to play the endgame.

Sorry to Brood for pushing you so hard D1. Sorry Anac for ignoring some of your posts. But thanks all for making it enjoyable.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

May 19 2012 18:57 GMT

#577

On May 20 2012 03:47 jaj22 wrote:

Hyaach didn't get the scum kill, Tofu did. Which was the problem. Hyaach couldn't claim because it wasn't his kill, and Tofu didn't want to claim because he was a multi-shot vig and he wasn't under much pressure.

Sumtiems ah reed gud. Didn't go back and check the actions today and had that wrong.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

May 20 2012 23:55 GMT

#583

It's fine cross, nothing personal. Just really easy to see how lurking can make for a bad town environment. Was frustrating in-game, but that's just in-game, and besides, way more difficult to get upset over it at all knowing that you were mafia. Great town environment wasn't exactly conducive to your win condition.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

May 23 2012 19:57 GMT

#588

Perhaps this would be better PMed, but I'll go ahead and ask it here.

For the vets/coaches, would there be any major changes in playstyle between a mini game and a full game and/or a game with PMs? Seems like you're basically doing the same thing, but what would you say the biggest difference is to keep in mind between a mini and a full game?

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

May 25 2012 02:14 GMT

#596

Thanks for the thoughts Probulous. Confirming townies felt very difficult, I guess a combination of being new to this/having low activity/no roleclaims. Seemed to tunnel way too hard once I thought someone was mafia, and be absolutely willing to change my mind on people like Firm who I'd read as town.

I can't really give a good reason for the switch off Crossfire. Apart from thinking Anac was town, I had lynched Brood and darkfire, thought dahdum was scummy, and thought Mufaa was slightly towny. Once I'd been wrong that many times, I lost confidence in my reads and didn't push for Crossfire because he actually responded to the questions I asked when I called out lurkers, whereas Hyaach didn't. Not a good reason, and it got worse throughout the day because I actually had reservations about lynching Hyaach due to the time zone difference and what I thought had been a vigi breadcrumb, yet was still willing to vote for him because...don't know. Just got overly frustrated.

As a question, would you say that we had a bad idea of what "scummy" behavior was? I read the guides, but it seemed that I didn't keep them in mind fully once the game started. Looking back, I feel like some of the things that felt scummy to me such as timing of posts and little contradictions shouldn't have seemed scummy when compared to the lurking/self-votes.

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