EPTI wanted to call you out all day Crossfire but figured I'd see if you didn't post and got modkilled. Now I feel dumb for not pushing you at all.
Newbie Mini Mafia XIII - Page 3
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I wanted to call you out all day Crossfire but figured I'd see if you didn't post and got modkilled. Now I feel dumb for not pushing you at all. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
There are 3 remaining mafia. You realize that means that all 3 of them could have logged on FORTY EIGHT HOURS AGO, voted for one person with zero explanation, nothing at all, and then never logged on again during D2. That person would have been lynched. With 10 bodies in this game, we already let mafia control a lynch if they wanted to. That's absolutely ridiculous. If you don't have time for this, I'm asking you to replace out or ask to be modkilled. If you're mafia and lurking, great job there. If you're town and lurking, you are actively hurting town and ruining this game for the rest of town. If you don't have time to read, don't kill this game, because you can't be enjoying this. Sorry dark. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I'm going to walk away for some of this evening, because right now all I want to do is policy lynch. I will try and get back on and look into your thoughts on scumteams. Is your main train of thought right now a me/Bio + mufaa + crossfire team? Or is it me + bio + mufaa (from before the deadline)? Or me + anac + someone? Or...not me. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
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I'm prodding you recently posted stuff and I've agreed with a lot of your analysis. We've both voted to lynch townies each day, but I think on similar reasoning. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I tunneled Brood and I pushed him on everyone, and he flipped town. D2 I voted Darkfire, but I didn't push it on anyone nearly as hard. I wasn't trying to gain votes on him, actually thought he was scummy but not pushing it like I did with Brood. If you think I'm scummy, read over what I wrote about each. I'm not the only one who voted them, although I may have been the most vocal. But if you agree with my reasoning, if you also thought they looked scummy, then don't find me scummy because I ended up being in the majority of two townie lynches. Heck, maybe we can just call the person I vote for tomorrow confirmed town. I'm still just frustrated and so not gonna post anything major, but right now I will say that my most confident read is of FirmTofu as town (which of course now means he's probably scum). His votes have been on the same people as mine have, and we seem to have similar reasoning. I'm town, so I assume he is as well. If you think I'm scummy because of my votes or because I've been so vocal/wrong, there may not be much I can do to change your mind. If you think I'm scummy for some other reason, let me know. Got N2 at least to clear up anything, and I'll try to be active. Specifically for Unforgiven, I started collecting links to past minis and newbie games to show you that 12/13-man games are 3 mafia under C9++. However, some of the older newbie games are 13/14-man with 4 scum. If I'd seen those, I wouldn't have posted anything about "3 mafia." I assumed 3 because I've followed the last few minis and seen mainly 3-man scum teams, and I thought that the 9-man games were 2 scum and 12/13-man games were 3 scum. If it looks like a scumslip, so be it. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Firmtofu - + Show Spoiler + I get a town read. Relatively vocal, and has had similar votes and reasoning behind them as I have. Commence the headgames, but I also get a townie feeling from this post - + Show Spoiler + On May 14 2012 12:18 FirmTofu wrote: Real quick, I'm not done reading, but I just had to quickly point this out. NO ONE seems to be questioning austinmcc at all? wtf. Look at the facts guys. This guy completely switched the direction of a lynch on a scummy player onto a blue town. Yeah, he's been playing pro-town, but that doesn't negate the fact that his actions have led to a deficit in our numbers! If Anacletus flips mafia, austinmcc is nearly certainly mafia. Everything points to it. Buddying is already evident in Anacletus' posts but I'm going to read more to find a substantial argument in favor of this. Mufaa - + Show Spoiler + Mild town read. Wasn't very vocal early on, but didn't find Anac scummy in the early game. IF anac is scum, then this looks quite bad for mufaa. IF he's not, then this gives me a town vibe. D2 posted some decent stuff with reads on darkfire and dahdum - + Show Spoiler + On May 15 2012 02:34 Mufaa wrote: Ok, here we go. Strongest reads for me so far are Dahdum and Darkfire. Dahdum + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 15:18 dahdum wrote: I'm on this wagon, for BKE's reason and the "I hope you aren't mafia" statement. Let's hear more from you Firm. ##Vote FirmTofu Dahdum's Early Game posts stood out to me. First he votes Tofu off of his early post to break the ice and a reason BKE prodivded. No content of his own really yet. Later on he says that he knows FirmTofu's style better than anyone else "We were in the last game together so I also have a better sense of his style than I do of the rest of you." To me this comes off a lot like Dahdum is either trying to establish his authority on FirmTofu so he can make a push on him later (Dahdum possibly scum in this case) or defend him (Possible scum buddies). + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 05:16 dahdum wrote: I'm at work so can't respond fully, but Tofu's response is reasonable and in line with what I expect from him as Town. So I am jumping on this new wagon, because reasons. ##Unvote ##Vote Anacletus On May 11 2012 06:58 dahdum wrote: Actually I believe I said because reasons. If we never get any wagons going, we never pressure mafia into having to take a vote/stance. I'm at work so I can't write long explanations, but since I 100% want somebody to die today, I'm fine voting for whomever the current scummiest is. No-lynch is not an option. These two quotes are what originally got me checking into Dahdum. First he votes for Anac saying "because reasons." He might as well post "because I feel like it" at that point. Then when he is called out on stating his reasoning as "because" he says "I said because reasons." There is absolutely no benefit for town by playing like this. Then he does explain his reasons for wanting bandwagons in general, butJailbreaker was asking about his reasons for the Anac bandwagon. His only other content is a bandwagon jump to BKE and a very weak case on BioSC. Darkfirex5 My suspicions of him aren't as strong, but I still have a few things I'm curious about. + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote: Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. He's suspicious of BioSC, who says town/they instead of us/we. While this is something of note while building a case it isn't enough to build a case on its own. + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 06:43 Darkfirex5 wrote: sorry im a student so i have school, currently i think this is a weak bandwagon forming on Anacletus. While his defense is weak: Yet the first person to begin the voting on Anacletus was Hyaach, his reasoning seemed just as weak: The start of this "bandwagon" is begining to form off of this, though Anacletus did have a poor response which made him more suspicious the voting on him lacks solid reasoning. I bolded the part im talking about (didnt cut out any as to take something out of context^). Another thing now is that Tofu anounces the role of being a townie, and the reason (supposidly) why Anacletus targeted him was because he knew he was town (because he was mafia)? Now im questioning then why did he target you (tofu) only because you were town. Why initiate like that on a post that seemed insignifigant. I'm building suspicion on the reasoning for starting this bandwagon on Anacletus. Im still not placing a vote down yet but the starting reasonings for the votes lacks evidence and the follow up points (to me dont seem solid). Lastly: I was refering to why you said town gets a nice snipe instead of we are geting a nice snipe, i was only adding on some slight pressure on the begining, which was similar to other posts. The way you get very defensive and attack my one post only asking about your reference to town/mafia. FOS: BioSc From your posts folowing, i think less of you as being mafia, and more so townie, that doesnt mean i wont continue keeping an eye on you too. Now take this massive post Darkfire "contributed." The first 3/4 of it are on how this is a weak bandwagon case on Anac, with the last 1/4 on a wording dispute. From there he posts mostly fluff until this gem. How do you know ShiaoPi was on to something? Austin and Anac both offered easy suggestions to why the mafia voted the way they did other than that they wanted to silence the person was closest to discovering them (Silencing vocal townies to stiffle discussion,attempting to frame the people on his list, etc...). Why should we believe this was just a careless post and not a slip? Dahdum - + Show Spoiler + Looks pretty scummy to me. 3 different votes day 1: + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 15:18 dahdum wrote: I'm on this wagon, for BKE's reason and the "I hope you aren't mafia" statement. Let's hear more from you Firm. ##Vote FirmTofu On May 11 2012 05:16 dahdum wrote: I'm at work so can't respond fully, but Tofu's response is reasonable and in line with what I expect from him as Town. So I am jumping on this new wagon, because reasons. ##Unvote ##Vote Anacletus On May 12 2012 05:33 dahdum wrote: ##unvote ##Vote BroodKingEXE Might not be enough to swing it, but I feel more comfortable lynchying BKE than Anac at this point. On May 11 2012 11:45 dahdum wrote: Here are my reads and yes I know this is partially a rehash of events. --Scummy List - -- Most To Least Analectus - No point summarizing so far, chief suspect. Actually votes for himself after attempting to throw his vote away without reason, and says "I never said I was protown". Not acting like town. Hyaach - Bandwagons, no pressure at all. Urges caution. Scummy. BioSC - Highly defensive, focuses on Analectus. Darkfirex5 - Keeps cautioning against bandwagons and voting too early, sounds like scum trying to defend Analectus. Last post says he's voting against Unforgiven but then botches the vote for Analectus? Crossfire99 - Obsessed with Analectus, doesn't discuss anyone else. BKE - Not providing reads, only a semi-baseless vote which helped get the game going. Talks about scum will do and urges caution. Scummy. Jailbreaker - Worried about people pressuring too much, defensive, not contributing reads, promises something soon. Mufaa - Very few posts but cites RL reason and reiterates basic strategy. Jumps on Analectus for technicality, contributes no reads on anyone else. Austinmcc - Rightly pressures Analectus for his "i don't have much to add" vote, continues to lay one the pressure but never calls him out as scum or gives any real reads/analysis. FirmTofu - Defends the bandwagon well, placing reasonable pressure on Analectus. Compared to last game he seems more thoughtful however, so I'm suspicious of that. ShiaoPi - Jumps on Hyaach, lots of analysis. The huge post is somewhat indicative of a scum play, but I concur with his picks (Analectus/Hyaach) so far. Crossfire - + Show Spoiler + So far, Crossfire doesn't really seem to have done ANY scumhunting. D1 he discusses the votes on firm, the votes on anac, the Brood/Anac votes, but never really says anything about anyone beyond those. Sticking solely to discussion of the major targets could be a move to blend in, not provide anything substantive. + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 14:10 Crossfire99 wrote: Ok I'm going to summarize what I feel happened at the end of the day just to put everything into context WALL OF TEXT WENT HERE Skip to N1, what do we get from Crossfire? + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 14:55 Crossfire99 wrote: I also want other people's opinions on this. I am kinda on the other side of the issue as you, unforgiven. In my last game a lot of people said no one should post during the night except for like the last 5 min, so mafia couldn't do any night actions based on it. This meant the night was dead and no one discussed anything. I feel that if everyone freely discusses everyone can start to get on the same page and focus on a few people. But I'm not sure if the discussion is worth it if mafia can base night actions off of it. ugh. I just don't know what's best. what are everyone else's thoughts? On May 13 2012 01:21 Crossfire99 wrote: Very good points on unforgiven, Shaopi. I would definitely like to hear his response to your case. The only thing I disagree about your case is the first point about this quote + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 12:50 Unforgiven_ve wrote: Guys, I just relized something, we should not discuss anything at night, that's just helps the mafia, they will get The player whit the better read. We should wait and don't make any deep analysis, what do you think? Just so this doesn't get lost in my paragraph. unforgiven, what is your response to shaopi's case on you. He brings up good points. Then D2...lurk lurk. Lurk lurk lurk. Posts, leaves, done. I'm quite suspicious of cross at this point. He's done ZERO scumhunting, he fished for info N1, and he lurked. Probably my top scumread right now. Unforgiven - + Show Spoiler + All I have is a gut slightly townie read. The lurking hurts us bad, and I reeeeeally don't like it, but for some reason his concern over me thinking there were 3 mafia members strikes me as townie. I could interpret it two ways: (1) trying to scumhunt and believing that to be a slip on my part; or (2) mafia going "HOW DOES HE KNOW OUR NUMBERS?" My gut impression is the first, and he's not a scum candidate for me right at this second. Currently I just have a very, very slightly town read on him and feel like others are just scummier. Hyaach - + Show Spoiler + There's not much there. The timezone difference accounts for some of that, because it looks like he's asleep pre-deadline time. But the lurking D2 doesn't help his case. You've participated some when you've been around, please continue and get some content out during N2 or D3. If you don't, it's anti-town enough that I kind of have to read you as scummy. But not enough to really go on at this point. Bio and Anac are going to take me a little more work, but I wanted to go ahead and post this. I guess right now I'm looking at a scumteam of Dahdum/Crossfire/+1, which might come out of Bio or Anac. I need to look more at BioSC and Dahdum's little spat with each other, perhaps they're both intentionally making weak cases on the other to fill the thread, and if one got lynched the other could try to turn that into some town cred. Will read over Anac, I'm not as confident in my newbie town read as I was D1, but I want to find some actual reasons why and look harder. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
What really sticks out to me is this post - On May 11 2012 00:09 Anacletus wrote: I've played mafia before. That being said nothing that I say is guaranteed so playing one playstyle will probably let them metagame us. I was only throwing out my 2 cents. Also, maybe I'm metagaming knowing mafia will read this. The hole goes deeper. I alluded to it D1, + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 00:39 austinmcc wrote: Anacletus, why, specifically, did you vote Tofu? All you've said is: In your original vote. But you didn't tell us what you found suspicious. Say you think this, why vote Tofu? He posted once, 40 minutes into the game, and hasn't been active. That's not vocal in chat. His activity so far this game doesn't fit the pattern that you believe to be scummy. Town's job isn't to care about what gameplan mafia may or may not have. Our job is to hunt scum. To me, your vote on Tofu, especially as it runs against your own reasoning, looks scummy or newbie townish. Yet you say you've played games elsewhere before. I don't know whether to slot Anac in as the third mafia, whether to think maybe dahdum and BioSC were just looking to make weak cases on each other and gain town cred if one was lynched and flipped scum, or whether there's another third mafia member out there. Relatively confident in those other two reads, and I can't really adopt some plan of "Assume everyone I read as scum is town," because that's just too confusing. I'll post more when I get enough free time and a computer, but it will be after the deadline. If nothing else, should I be the nightkill, hopefully some of this will be helpful. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 16 2012 06:16 Crossfire99 wrote: Hmmm, curiously I just noticed in your last post, you leave out Anacletus and Bio in your reads. Why? Are they your scumbuddies? On May 16 2012 03:42 austinmcc wrote: Bio and Anac are going to take me a little more work, but I wanted to go ahead and post this. I guess right now I'm looking at a scumteam of Dahdum/Crossfire/+1, which might come out of Bio or Anac. I need to look more at BioSC and Dahdum's little spat with each other, perhaps they're both intentionally making weak cases on the other to fill the thread, and if one got lynched the other could try to turn that into some town cred. Will read over Anac, I'm not as confident in my newbie town read as I was D1, but I want to find some actual reasons why and look harder. Gave my reasoning there. Anac I want to really sit and think on, that's going to take me some time. I post from work during the day, and can't set aside the time to drill down on his posts, analyze them, type out thoughts. That's gotta wait for me getting home. It's easy to analyze those who haven't been too active, but it's more difficult to actually give analysis on Anac, because he was very active, we've had a lot of accusations/suspicions concerning him, and a lot of OTHER reads depend on what his alignment is. Anac's alignment really determines a lot of people's reads from what I can tell. Left out Bio because, as I said, I want to look more at the exchanged between him and dahdum and see what I get. Also, let's say I left the two of them out and we're all scumbuddies. That sure seems like a TERRIBLE PLAN. Why on earth would I telegraph something like that? I've given reasoning for my reads, made arguments, I haven't been illogical so far. Why would I randomly go, herp derp I don't want to make reads on mafia, maybe nobody will notice. IF i die tonight, you'll know I'm not scum. IF i don't, AND I don't post anything on the two of them, THEN come talk to me. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 16 2012 06:24 Crossfire99 wrote: Now he conveniently states that he is still suspicious of Anac, but not suspicious enough to warrant a vote. Hmmm? I definitely think you are trying to defend your scumbuddy, but still trying to keep your hands clean if he is lynched over your wishes by saying you were still suspicious. Pretty much half the players were suspicious of him D1 but didn't vote for him? Go read the thread. We had a lot of "I'm still not convinced, but he can't hurt us D2" (Yes, I argued that and others accepted it). Here's Shiao. Goes from - + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 00:22 ShiaoPi wrote: @austinmcc: Considering your thoughts on Anacletus: There is always the possibility of bad town play instead of scummy play. But doesn't the defense of Anacletus (or more the lack of) seem weird to you? Also his lack of good contributions? I guess bad townie play is always a possibility, but for now I stand by my vote. On the accusations on BroodKingEXE: You bring up some good analysis. I guess I overlooked those aspects of his posts because I was more busy defending my posts against him than analyzing. I'll have to reread his filter thoroughly though, before doing anything. On May 12 2012 04:42 ShiaoPi wrote: As it stands right now, Anacletus will get lynched as he has the most votes. And a lynch on him is fine on my watch as well. Just want to get something more telling from BroodkingEXE. He seems to have conveniently vanished as pressure against him mounted up. As crappy as it was Anacletus did try to defend himself. He still is one of the bigger scumreads right now and as austinmcc argued correctly he has absolutely zero credibility right now. So as scum, who might attempt to sway town's discussion he is worthless at the moment until he steps it up and starts to give us reasons to believe him again. BroodkingExe on the other hand just disappeared, ignoring the case completely and if you examine the last two posts of his you will see the recurring things austinmcc mentioned in his case. He again shifts a bit of focus on other people who have not really been called out until now, but does not start his own case (see this:+ Show Spoiler + Okay I've looked at the filters and have come up with two other people I view as posting scummy. Jailbreaker. So far he has offered nothing to the conversation at all. He pointed out lurkers, defended himself, and gave a bunch of half-ass responses along with another unsupported scum list. He's trying to point fingers with no real direction, scum behavior to me. BioSC. His posts have for the most part been defensive. Even his big post against Darkfire was like that. He starts off saying that Dark is trying to push attention toward him, but then goes on to try and justify his past actions. The conviction seems more like a diversion to save his own hide than to lynch scum. His other post calls out austinmcc as scummy for repeating his beliefs on Anacletus (that he is a bad townie but not necessarily mafia). BroodkingEXE's post were done after austinmcc's case against him and yet he managed to ignore it completely. So either 1) He did not see/read austinmcc's post (highly unlikely) 2) He did read it and chose to ignore it as he seems safe enough with the current votecount So the only way to get him into talking seems to be to unvote one by one and making him think of his own position of less than secure. I just want to hear more from him, if we do not get him to talk and Anacletus is lynched, at least we will know Anacletus' role and from there on we have more room to expand our discussion. Either way they are both top priorities for pressure/questioning regardless of whom we lynch today. On May 12 2012 07:09 ShiaoPi wrote: In the end (with less than an hour to lynchtime) if I have to pick between Anacletus and BroodKingEXE I'll have to go with BroodKingEXE, his lynch seems more useful to me. Since even if we mislynch we gain more information from his flip than from Anacletus' ##vote BroodKingEXE Unless something drastic happens, my vote stays. Here's dahdum - + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 05:23 dahdum wrote: I'm backing off of anac at this point, he's still suspicious but I'm thinking reckless/bad town vs bad mafia. Too many people are after him first day, some have to be mafia, and his defense should have been better if he's getting help in a QT (as austinmcc mentioned). Will support a lynch of BioSC or BKE, do we have a current vote count? Here's BioSC - + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 04:14 BioSC wrote: Yes, we are close to lynch time, and Brood hasn't shown himself for 2+ hours. However, I don't like the precedence swapping the bandwagon onto him says about play. I feel like it gives scum an out. "Well, even though my posts were scummy, and the majority of town have been calling me out on it, and I've yet to offer anything positive to town, you guys forgave Ana, why not forgive me?" For now, my vote stays as is. As we wind down to time, though, what does that mean if Brood doesn't show up till night starts? What is our plan before then? Do we all switch the bandwagon to Brood for a last minute lynch? Or is it a last minute ploy by mafia to save scum that has been playing badly? On May 12 2012 04:45 BioSC wrote: Which is a fair conclusion. I am also voting for the person I believe is the most scummy, which is Anac. Your points on Brood, however, haven't been lost on me. Reading through his filter along with your case against him definitely raises my suspicions towards him. My second half of the post was more of a discussion starter than a concrete plan for us to follow. As of right now, the only people on and even discussing the case this close to lynch is you, me, and ShiaoPi. If you want to get your lynch case through, the best way to do that is discussion, and by trying to convince the 4 non-voters as of yet to vote your way, but even then, I feel like the case against Anac is already too stacked against him to change. On May 12 2012 05:45 BioSC wrote: Your tunnelling on me makes absolutely no sense. We've had pretty much the exact same reads on people, excepting of course that for whatever strange reason you believe I'm playing scummy. I've already asked you for reasons on why you think I'm scum, but frankly they are pretty tame and only serve to distract and cause more arguments. + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 12:57 dahdum wrote: @biosc Sure, this is why I think you're scummy: You're agreeing with me here, but then the "they would be as bad as scum" phrase really seems out of place. My first suspicion based on that. By throwing your suspicions I assume you mean the phrase "back half of his post is worthy of discussion". Super passive and non-committal. Sounds like something one scum says to another. I'd also like to hear more on who you think is suspicious beyond Analectus? What is your goal here? You believe I'm scum, but have the same reads as a scum? I'm not even sure you follow your own logic. We are discussing the lynch of Anacletus or BroodKingExe, Why would you bring me into this discussion, if not to distract from what we are discussing. If you have a case against me, make it. So far your suspicions of me have been weak at best, so I hope that if you are making a case, it's better than "He said some cryptic things on day 1", and "He had a scum read on one of my reads, but said something I believe to be scumtalk" Honestly this whole half-assed commited case you have against me just strengthens my case for you being scum. Back to the case at hand. I've stated multiple times that I believe Anacletus to be scum, however, with the recent case against BXE, I'm inclined to swap my vote to him. The biggest reason I am to swap my vote over, is this line in Austin's case. + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 05:08 austinmcc wrote: If that makes sense, and recent action just doesn't support a scenario where Anac is scum and Brood is town, then we should take out Brood. We can deal with Anac later if he IS scum, because he's got no chance to be really disruptive after his start. Both players have had people call them out on being scummy. However, due to Anac losing all credit with the town, regardless of affiliation, it would be tough for him ,should he be mafia, to get any ball rolling on someone else in town. It's not a forgiveness for bad play, its a delay in action for a scum target appearing more scummy near the end of the day. ## Unvote ## Vote BroodKingEXE In fact, here's YOU on D1 - + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 05:03 Crossfire99 wrote: Sorry for being so inactive, I’ve been very busy today. I haven’t been able to keep up with the thread very much, so I’ll focus on two things. My current position on Anacletus and this newfound suspicion on BroodKingEXE In relation to Anacletus: So far he has said he has had no information + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 09:22 Anacletus wrote: I don't have any information. So no benefits and no doubts shall be given then I assume? My personal feelings as of right now is that BioSC is mafia. He's been super passive while we've been at each others throats and has been trying to redirect attention off of himself. On May 12 2012 01:01 Anacletus wrote: Yeah, it's just bad town play. I really hope you guys don't lynch me and let the cop check me or something. In the beginning I was just being reckless to start up the conversations. I've said it multiple times, but I'll say it again, I have no interest in hanging anyone yet as everything is just inconclusive guesses. -------------------------------------- Now onto BroodKingEXE: I will start with this quote from ausitnmcc. It is his case against Brood. + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 22:38 austinmcc wrote: My thoughts on Anacletus: His play does not feel like good townie play. I brought that up earlier, we've all discussed it by now, and I think we all seem to come to the same conclusion. While I would support a lynch of Anacletus, I think we have better targets. I'll look through his responses more today, but for now I would prefer to look elsewhere, and see how Anacletus continues to play. Right now, "not good townie play" is my read, but I'm not convinced that his play is scummy and not just bad townie play. However, we've got a quarter of D1 left, and I want to throw this case out and push it a little, see what comes of it. My top scum read: BroodKingEXE. BroodKingEXE filter - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707&user=233869 Skip 2/3 of the first page. It's pregame. He's active, vocal, chatting a lot with everyone in the pregame. Doesn't really mean anything. First posts: + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 12:53 BroodKingEXE wrote: /confirm Lynching lurkers in the early game not a good idea. My reasoning is that people need to be able to post before we persecute them. Something to think about lurkers, Mafia will try to lurk, but their posts will have more intent behind each one. Why? Every post they make is going to push its own idea of an agenda, but the more they post the more the idea could be misinterpreted. Before we lynch a lurker let's look at the intent of the post: a Mafia agenda push or a helpful Townie post. + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 13:18 BroodKingEXE wrote: Not true, lynching an inactive is a waste. Scum wants us to not lynch them. We can call lurkers out, and they have to respond. They don't respond, we start looking at them. Lynching, because they are lurkers is stupid. + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 13:48 BroodKingEXE wrote: What are you implying here? We should wait for everyone to post before coming to conclusions? That seems scummy to me, we should be analyzing peoples posts right now. You just created a reason for you not to post. Convince your not scum. ##Vote: Firm Tofu These aren't entirely incompatible. Lynching lurkers bad, pressuring them good, let people post before we jump to conclusions. That seems townie, fine and dandy, but then he fires off the very first vote of the game on FirmTofu. Why? Because FirmTofu posted + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 08:36 FirmTofu wrote: Hi again dahdum! I hope you aren't mafia again >< I'm all for lynching a lurker, but we should definitely wait a bit for everyone to have a chance to post. Look at the bolded part of Broodking's first post. Now back to me. Now back to the bolded part of FirmTofu's post. Now back to me. Anything? That's the same exact thought process. And yet when FirmTofu vocalizes that, Broodking fires off the first vote of the game. I still don't agree with that vote at all, even if it was just to "pressure" someone, because there's absolutely no grounds for voting someone because they express a thought you just expressed slightly earlier. From then on out, it's a series of one-liner and response posts, but never really DOING anything. Last night (eastern time), BroodKing had one of the longest filters, and yet the only substantive post was him voting FirmTofu off the bat. For example: + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 03:30 BroodKingEXE wrote: You can withhold your vote but you still need to scum hunt. + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 04:01 BroodKingEXE wrote: This post makes sense, Anacletus' play has been pretty wierd. I need to hear a response from him before I vote though. This line stood out to me. BroodKing threw out of FIRST vote of the game on Tofu, before there was play to analyze and before Tofu responded to anything. Why does he need a response now to vote? After that, he starts giving responses to other people, specifically ShiaoPi's reads, but doesn't really add anything of substance. scummy + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 04:05 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Hyaach Why did you put your vote on Ancletus? You had just as much reasoning as him. That is none. On May 11 2012 04:33 BroodKingEXE wrote: WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH!!!! ShiaoPi are you defending Hyaach? A null read? He has provided zero evidence for his vote. Your whole list is terrible, it provides nothing more than a bunch "I'm leaning town, but you can never be sure reads". I smell a scumwagon. On May 11 2012 05:38 BroodKingEXE wrote: Your big post brings up a list of null reads. Its misleading due to its size when its content is a bunch of reiteration of events. Scum will make posts like this to make themselves seem useful. If you actually read your reasoning for voting for anacletus it is: he was not eager, a post lacking logic, and a bandwagon. The first two could be townie mistakes and bandwagons aren't very effective when people have strong objections to the canidate. On the other hand, you have voted with the person you first thought was scum and had dropped your suspicions based on...nothing. On May 11 2012 09:09 BroodKingEXE wrote: Just needed explanation for your vote/post. This canidate seems really rushed though, people haven't looked at his latest posts for signs of scumminess. I agree that his past posts are suspicious, but we need to look at his current posts. Too much like a wagon for me to vote for him yet. Note that at this point, ShiaoPi has just thrown out the first real list of reads we had from anyone. BroodKing posts a couple times concerning the list, but doesn't really add anything. While he gets information out of ShiaoPi, he doesn't really provide any himself. At no point in those posts does he agree with a read or disagree with a read, rather, he simply acknowledges that reads were made and ShiaoPi voted. This is also the first point we begin to move AWAY from the Anacletus discussion (which has run its course at this point), and BroodKing continues to ask for information based on ShiaoPi's vote for Anacletus. Finally, compare his filter from this game with his filter from Newbie VIII, where he was town. + Show Spoiler + There are some posts in a similar style to his posts here, but a LOT of @x and @y, what do you guys think about z. Lots of longer discussions, paragraphs, lists. SOME of that is because he was the lynch target D1 and so had to be active and defend himself. But his townie posts from VIII feel more robust and they contribute, whereas his posts so far in XIII do not. ------------------------------- Anacletus's play still feels more bad than scummy. I would like to let him live for now, and see if he starts to really contribute. Right now he has 0 town cred, so if he's mafia he can't actively muck up town discussion. If we back off the pressure, MAYBE he mounts a decent defense and provides some good reads, because...he's got to do that to get any cred back. If not? We lynch him later, or we see if we can get any information N1 from blue roles that push us forward. Compared to Anacletus though, BroodKingEXE looks actively scummy. So far he hasn't contributed anything of note except the first vote of the game, which made little sense. He's supports getting responses before voting, but then votes without a response from FirmTofu. He wants scumhunting and reasoning, but has provided none. Again, I'm not opposed to an Anacletus lynch, but I would prefer to lynch the player that seems scummiest, which is BroodKing. ##Vote BroodKingEXE ##FOS: Anacletus Dahdum, I'm especially interested in hearing your thoughts on this, as you read BroodKing to be scummy as well. I didn't really notice him until I looked through all the filters last night and realized he was my best scumread. Do you agree with my reasoning? Did you have different reasoning? I agree with some of what Austin has said because when I did my own read through of Brood’s filter, it is just a mess of garbage posts. He also hypocritically accuses Firmtofu and votes for him because Formtofu said to wait until everyone has posted before judging them evev though he said the same thing. But, I will say that his redeeming quality is that he is pretty active and is suspicios of these giant “here are my reads for every person in the game” posts. I don’t like these posts that much because as he pointed out, they are an easy way for scum to hide and seem like they are doing work, but in reality they aren’t. This means that he is less scummy in my eyes than Anacletus, but I am going to keep my eye on him in the future. ##Vote Anacletus So yes. I "conveniently" state I'm suspicious of Anac, but voted someone else. Oh no. Turns out practically half of us were suspicious of Anac but voted elsewhere. In fact, YOU were suspicious of Brood, "keeping your eye on him," but voted Anac. If being suspicious of one of those two and voting for the other is a scumtell, then we're in big trouble because we're ALL scum. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 16 2012 10:59 FirmTofu wrote: I'm pretty sure I'm 100% dead by tonight because I can't see mafia killing anyone else besides austin. However, austin is suspected of mafia for his actions, so I doubt he'll be dying today. Please contribute. It's perfectly okay if you think I'm mafia, just tell us who your three top candidates for mafia are. Been expecting you to be the target as well. No sense taking me out when I'm sure I'll get some heat tomorrow. As for my reads, right now they're the same as above: dahdum, crossfire, _____ Got stuck out later than I wanted, so will have to fill in the third tomorrow. Since we've got some suspicions on Bio, I'll really need to take a look at him. Firm, you suspect both dahdum and Bio? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Okay, so I read back through things looking at BioSC and his interactions with others. The most notable thing that pops out to me, and, granted, it's not a lot to go on, is that both dahdum and dark were suspcious of BioSC. They've both flipped town. dahdum started off thinking bio was scummy. Supported a Bio or Brood lynch D1, voted Bio quickly D2. There's not a ton there though, mainly talk of him playing passively and then getting defensive when challenged. My own thoughts kind of support that, Anac and Dark both suspicious of Bio D1 and he then turns around on them and is suspicious of them. Darkfire starts out suspicious of Bio for semantics, which I don't find particularly convincing. + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 13:10 Darkfirex5 wrote: Well, might as well get started first game :3 I'm questioning why do you speak about town in third person as if you are speaking as if town isnt including yourself, so im asking why are you not using "we" and refering to town as a "they." Also you are justifying killing town just because they arent active, a vote helps even if they are a lurker, its another person who can still vote and help kill off all of the mafia. On May 14 2012 12:16 Darkfirex5 wrote: SNIPPED BioSC filter my last few posts, i havent been talking about you. I've been trying to look into Mufaa and dahdum. I've shifted away from you and i still want Analcetus to be lynched becuase if he pops mafia, it will be easy to track who saved him from the first lynch. In response to you directly, I was on edge with you being mafia but i began thinking you were protown. Again recently I've begun looking at dahdum and Mufaa. Also i was trying to poke at your defensive play, becuase you seem to always respond hyper defensive. I was trying to get more information out of you by knowing that i had an FOS on you. But now, moving ahead i think the biggest target is mufaa dahdun and Anacletus. I'll look to analyze material when i get back from school. On May 15 2012 07:55 Darkfirex5 wrote: SNIPPED With this i now find Dahdum townie as well because though he had suspicions on BioSC and Anacletus. I havent been able to clear BioSC though which is why i dont think that dahdum is more likely to be mafia. I think that dahdum as well is pro town more so. WIth Mufaa though he has waited twice now to join a majority vote. Well shit now, i think mufaa is townie as well, debatably now because of the defense on Anacletus. Huh well now that leaves BioSC and lurkers.... ##Unvote ##Vote BioSC im hoping i gave you some insight austincc. I'm going to remain a FOS on Mufaa, but because i have this basis on Anacletus being town Mufaa seems more town pro. I'd like to know for sure though somehow because this remains on the basis that Anacletus is a townie. Meh shit i feel like i dodged your question in a way, but now rereading more and more im geting new ideas and now i feel like you will think that im voting BioSC because there is 2 votes on him. Ask it again if you feel like i didnt answer you "correctly" its hard now that i have this different insight rereading some of Mufaa's older posts during day 1 On May 15 2012 07:58 Darkfirex5 wrote: when i pop townie cause thats the way it seems, other townies look at dahdum, mufaa and Anacletus, they to me seem the most pro town. Austin is iffy look into him. I was pressuring BioSC because i thought hey why not get things roling because this could pop up as something. Welp meh i dont have a case against you Tofu but you've been chilling back for a while reading these posts <-- dont like And again, it's not a ton to go on, but here's N1 and On May 14 2012 10:51 BioSC wrote: There IS some defensiveness there, and I don't really have a leg to stand on and make the argument "He suspected townies, therefore he's mafia," but 2/3 of his suspicions have flipped town. Firm you seem to pick something up there, during D2, somewhere on P19 (too lazy to find now), you note that you think dahdum/dark are mafia because they team up and attack Bio.SNIPPED As for whom I would like to call out, SNIPPED Darkfire: I still haven't gotten an answer for this post. Mind filling me in on the details? Like how you are trying to shift blame off of one of the scummiest players at the time to someone else on such a triviality? Unvorgiven_ve: Where the hell have you been, and why is it that the person the mafia hit has you #1 on their list? DahDum: I've still got my reasons for suspecting you, and having Brood call you out only to not respond for 1.5 days adds to the suspicion. I don't get any giant read off of his filter though. It does feel a little defensive. I mean, very defensive. Until his most recent post, EVERYTHING was dahdum/dark/anac, except for the one time he called out dahdum/dark/unforgiven. I don't love the way that feels. At the moment then, I guess I'm on the fence as well. I see him very suspicious of townies, but it's tough for me to get a scumread off that when I've been suspicious of townies. I don't love that he's not really contributing, just being defensive and OMGUSing. Wouldn't hate a lynch on him, could maybe get behind it. I want to keep looking around. Another consideration is that a Bio lynch maybe tells us something about Anac. Seems like if Bio flipped scum, Anac would feel more townie. That's some serious commitment if Anac was pushing Bio so hard D2 and then D3, perhaps a bit too long and too focused to be a bus? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
So. Get active. Help us out. Otherwise I really just want to policy lynch you over Bio, and that's a terrible mindset. HEY LURKERS Unforgiven + Show Spoiler + Unforgiven seems to pop on once a cycle, post a single post or just a tiny flurry of them, then disappear. I have no clue what On May 17 2012 03:11 Unforgiven_ve wrote: means, so feel free to explain that. You voted for yourself D1, then swapped to Brood. You voted for yourself D2. Your main scumread seems to be...yourself. What were you right about? You mentioned mufaa a few times, but every time you mentioned him you ALSO mentioned about 900 other players.i knew it!!! i was right since the beggining of the game. does that bother you austin? im not taking any chances now ##Vote austinmcc + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 00:21 Unforgiven_ve wrote: My god Anacletus, of course i give you some credit, but i dont undertand ANYTHING you post, your contributions makes no sense, they are contradictory and change everytime someone points his finger at you. You need to understand this is a TEAM GAME, you just cant convince people saying "My plan so far is more of a cluster-fuck spider-web of ideas written in a language that I don't know." are you really THAT bad of a player? if you turn mafia im gonna laugh, really. I have a couple reads taking some shape. My four main suspects so far are, Anacletus(for obvious reasons), Mufaa (being very passive, maybe i dont belive his works excuses), Shaopi (super active at first, then just defending his BIG list and a couple post naming Broodking) and Jailbraker (2 post, whitout much information, I'm going to withhold my vote until later when everyone has a chance to post everybody already posted and im still waiting, and posting this now, going to formulate a new post based on BroodKingEXE, ShiaoPi, Hyaach (page 7 to 8) Im gonna wait a couple more hours to cast my vote, i want to see if everyone goes active and chatty and the end of the day On May 12 2012 07:12 Unforgiven_ve wrote: I think anacletus did us not good playing the way he has, i want to belive its a mafia "strategy" but its just too risky(¿?), after reading austinmcc and seeing Anacletus doesnt represent a thread anymore (im sure this will strike us some other way in the future), if BKE flips blue/town as Shaopi says, we are at 0 again thanks to Anacletus. I repeat, i dont like to be guided this easily, but i see a case, i see reasons, and i see lack of response from the accused party. I have made up my mind after readin all posts and seeing RKE lacks of defense after the high pressure...also, this is golden Mufaa, it just raised my "interest" on you. + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2012 06:18 Mufaa wrote: Like I've been saying since my first post, I think Ana is bad town more than mafia. Every scummy thing he has done has been so scummy that if he was Mafia his partners would be berating him so bad he probably would have stopped posting instead of digging himself into this giant hole he's made. .... and i agree 100% on your jailbraker FOS as i stated hours before, pointing a friend maybe?... but i think we should wait a little more. ##Vote BroodKingEXE On May 13 2012 08:31 Unforgiven_ve wrote: My list in case i die. suspicious of mufaa, jailbreaker, crossfire because at the time they hadn't really posted suspicious of anacletus because of his play suspicious of shaopi because at the time he posted a big list of names with his opinions but nothing really happened yet so there wasn't much to base that on On May 16 2012 13:23 Unforgiven_ve wrote: uh? i came in to check the night post and i hasnt been made? My top 3: austincc Anacletus Dahdum/Mufaa/Hyaach maybe bio/crossfire ... lol, thats all of us but me i guess  First post you suspect Mufaa, but also Anac, Jailbreaker, and ShiaoPi. Second post Mufaa raises your interest, but you throw your vote on Brood. In the third post, you're suspicious of 5 players, half the non-you players. In the last post, you seem to be suspicious of SIX players now. Can you narrow down your reads? I don't care if you narrow them down to me and want to tunnel me all day, I'll respond. But we need you to contribute, because you haven't really given us ANYTHING in the last ~96 hours. Crossfire + Show Spoiler + You were gone all D2. N2 you pop in 2 hours before deadline, and do respond to my case. I appreciate that. But now you've dipped out for another 24+ hours. We're talking 2 actual posts over the last...96 hours. I'm not holding the Probulous comment against you anymore. I got an answer to one of my PMs, and not to the other, so I can believe that Prob is just a bum and Adam is a way better coach. You're rightfully suspicious of Anac. But other than that, who? Heck, what about other stuff -- Why do you think the night kills have been ShiaoPi and dahdum? What made them good targets for mafia? Why not kill Firm last night? Come in here, contribute, even if it's just answering that stuff. Hyaach + Show Spoiler + Hyaach we basically haven't heard from you since N1. Again, 96 hours. Your suspects from N1 -- On May 12 2012 12:49 Hyaach wrote: I will just say this out now. High on my suspect list : dahdum Anacletus Mufaa ShiaoPi and checks on Anacletus will be pointless as i've said his been claiming his town so far and could very well be mafia godfather. they appears innocent to checks. Self voted to appear as a last ditch effort to claim townie because the case on him was quite big. Kept insisting he wasn't sure voting BKE was a good choice. Then switch vote to BKE the moment people started pushing and BKE's case seemed lost. How does that change your reads? Heck, we know Mufaa was godfather, so that means Anac can't be gf (Unforgiven, don't get on mah nuts about this, go look at the way the roles are picked and none of the scumteam options have multiple gfs). If the possibility of him being a gf is out, how do you read him? Hooray. Santy Claus has brought presents to all the lurkers. I'm going to keep calling you out all through D3. I keep focusing on people who have posted scummy content, and they keep flipping green. Maybe it's time I focus instead on people WITHOUT much content. At the moment, I mainly support a lynch on: (1) Crossfire (2) BioSC (3) Unforgiven/Hyaach Order subject to change over the course of the day, but that's my current mindset. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Sweet jesus I don't want to look through his filter. Any time I start, I see myself defending him on D1 as noob town. Everything on D1, everything since, I can still read as noob town or as scum. I was actually serious when I said he was so questionable that he'd have no chance to drive things in later days and cause chaos, and I've stuck by that, basically skipping over his posts (and also, to some extent, cases on him because I have been refusing to read him). Which is, frankly, not helpful. I got through your filter and a full gameread, but didn't get around to his because I seriously don't even want to wade in. I will make myself do some looking tonight, but I will probably mainly be reading your case and others' cases on him, because I just start to confuse myself when I look at his filter. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
D1 Lots of votes being thrown around. Lots of...contradictory votes. I'm only going to pull a few things out, but the voting and the suspicions are clearly funky. Skipping over an early vote or two, we've got - + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 10:21 Anacletus wrote: SNIPPED ##Unvote My personal feelings as of right now is that BioSC is mafia. He's been super passive while we've been at each others throats and has been trying to redirect attention off of himself. ##Vote Anacletus Well, this could turn out interesting On May 12 2012 04:57 Anacletus wrote: SNIPPED I actually don't agree with you guys in your suspicions of BioSC being mafia. I also think that Dahdum and Mufaa are also citizens as well. My best guess as to who is mafia would be BKE I guess, but I'm not too certain which is why I haven't really raised my voice in this instance. On May 12 2012 06:43 Anacletus wrote: I'll be real with you man, I don't actually have *that* much of an inclination to believing that you are mafia. It's just that it feels like it's either you or me, so I'm trying to save my own neck. I am not without doubt of you - I just don't think that there's enough information for me to think it's worthy to hang you, but again, if it comes down to me or you, it's you... :/ I do think that others feel like you're mafia though, so that's why my vote is where it is. If i just read this, it continues to look townish to me. All those vote swaps, the odd logic, you're guaranteed to draw a lot of attention to yourself with that. The early post (not quoted here, but i've brought it up before) where he mentions playing games before does concern me. But just from this, I don't want to get super WIFOM-y and think whether mafia knows that drawing attention is bad, so they do that, etc. I have to read this day as townie. N1 Nothing much here. D2 Anac leads off with his initial case on Bio. + Show Spoiler + On May 14 2012 07:40 Anacletus wrote: SNIPPED My biggest suspicions lie with BioSC and FirmTofu - I truly believe them to be mafia and would like for one of them to get hung today, and here is my reasoning why: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#190 This post by Tofu not only distracts from any points made against BioSC but further asserts cases made against me and darkfire - and again my logic being that I know that I am not mafia so I can assume that the claims made against myself are baseless as his only points seem to be based off of what darkfire is saying. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=10#183 BioSC also makes excruciatingly similar posts to Tofu - it's almost as if they are working together! And my biggest reasoning to vote for them is because of how they both switched from my band wagon vote to vote for BKE after several times trying to seal a vote for me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334707¤tpage=17#326 My opinions on fluff posts using "we" in town situations are also pretty revealing with one's alignment. ##Vote BioSC Here's my vote - I strongly urge you guys to vote with me on this as I truly believe my synopsis to be accurate. Anac ends D2 by finding BioSC, FirmTofu, and I mafia. Still reading this as townie. Guy voted, stuck to it, and although he tunneled BioSC and they had their back and forth all day, it feels like an effort to adjust his posting from D1, which we were all voting him for/suspicious of/etc. Sure, could still be headgames, but now it does feel like making a case, sticking with it, trying to bring people on board with it. The last post is odd, but I read it as frustration? Continues to make those scumreads during N2. D3 Pushing Bio. So here's my read. I'm finding him town. Town or super-far-down-the-rabbit-hole scum, and that seems too outlandish. Bio you made your case, but it's tough for me to read that and find anac scummy off of it, because you're basing it on my alignment. I'm not scum, and so there was no magical scum play to save Anac. If you throw out Mufaa/anac/me being the scumteam, at least part of your case falls apart. Can't agree with your read because of that. Anac. D2 and N2 you thought Firm/Bio/Me was the scumteam. Mufaa flipped red. There's been some more discussion from the rest of us. So:
Firm, jump in here. I still have a town read on you, but everyone's a bit suspicious at this point. I think you're sitting back and trying to get reads from everyone before wading in, but we're down to under 24 hours, have three players lurking heavily, and one COULD read your actions as trying to figure out which buttons to push and threads to pull as scum leading up to the D3 lynch. You've asked Anac about Bio, me about Bio, Bio about me. That's nice, but we're all active. No pressure for the lurkers? Thoughts on the lurkers? I can't seriously believe at this point that we've got 3 townies sitting on their hands, and if we do, we're kind of dead anyway. | ||
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