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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On April 28 2012 23:34 Kurumi wrote: If the game doesn't fill up till Tuesday I will politely ask hydras to break up and sign up personally. On April 30 2012 19:27 Blazinghand wrote: Come on guys, stick with it!! We're bleeding out players right and left ;_; + Show Spoiler [Dramatic interpretation of dudes /outing] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JS5MM.png) Don't worry, if we cut off the hydra's heads 4 more shall grow back in its place, therefore providing an infinite supply of players :D | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
Seriously though, I doubt blubb's colour mishap is indicative of alignment. For the same reason a townie knows he is blue, I'd assume the same can be said if he were red. Its just indicative of not reading the blurb properly, as either town or scum. I don't like Katina though, attacking someone like BH who we all know plays ridiculously aggressive day 1, with little to know evidence, when BH is at least trying to reason out his suspicions. ##FOS Katina | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 03 2012 23:02 Mementoss wrote: For those people who think im just spamming, I'm just trying to make the point that scumslips aren't a serious indicator of alignment. Scumslips should be used as supporting evidence, backed up by solid behavioural analysis. If we are going to lynch on the things such as scumslips on day 1, I would rather just kill BM or Kenpachi. It would be just as useful. I'm not serious about actually policy lynching them, but we cannot let them "lurk and live" till end game because its their "meta". It causes really awkward end game situations, where you can only guess their alignment. Though I sympathise with the thought process I'm pretty sure we should lynch whoever we feel is most scummy, that means taking into consideration lurkiness/quality of posting. Killing someone based on their meta is equally as flawed as letting someone live because of their meta. I'm not saying don't use it as a factor, just to bare in mind that the 'lynch a bad townie' logic is wrong and every game I've played where this has happened has ended in tears. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 03 2012 21:02 Palmar wrote: Kenpachi, is this a good vote? | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 04 2012 23:45 SomethingAwesome wrote: Don't talk about Beneather. No reason to. When/If he post he will be a target for now leave him be. why? Inactives and lurkers are killing this day 1, its allowign scum to hide amongst them. I'd almost be up for changing my vote onto him if it gets him to contribute. I aso agree with Mementoss, Grush's case is weak but its the only case we have. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
So I've read the thread, and though I find the arguments against Laya the most convincing inI think at this point we should lynch into innactives/lurkers/low content posters. I realise I'm putting myself in the firing line but hear me out. Scum have just lost 2 players for free, as has been pointed out previously its gonna take a lot of mislynches for scum to be able to influence town discussion in any meaningful way, this means IMO the best thing for scum to do is to sit back and hope for town chaos and OMGUS to divide town and cause the most mislynching to happen. As such I think its far more likely for us to hit scum by lynching into that pool of players then even relying on evidence that relies on quite a bit of WIFOM in the case of Laya. As such those with posts least in both content and number (apart from me), Ghost and Kenpachi seem to me to be the most guilty of the above. As Kenpachi seems to not want to play (and I don't buy the 'scum think I'm scum' logic as that only works if you're confirmed town) I will: ##Vote Kenpachi I will be available all day today and tomorrow so that I can try to make up for my inactivity. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 07 2012 22:15 layabout wrote: So you are saying that it doesn't matter if your logic for voting on day1 is weak/contracitory/scummy because we have limited information? No, I'm saying that its less likely of being alignment indicative then actual thread activity at this point. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 07 2012 22:12 layabout wrote: I would love to know how you felt that this: + Show Spoiler + On May 07 2012 04:37 Nova_Terra wrote: Next, Kenpachi Absolutely worthless, if you consider his connection case useful i dunno what to say Vote: Kenpachi On May 07 2012 13:19 PaqMan wrote: Just found out that I'm probably going to miss the lynch. I guess it doesn't bother anyone how fast a wagon formed on NT? I don't feel comfortable putting my vote back onto him. Hence this quote: His only post since D2 started. He ninja-voted D1, isn't contributing and the few posts he has are very lackluster. From what I understand Kenpachi is a veteran, yet he's been the least helpful out of everyone (excluding Froggynoddy, who is inactive). Also this gem: + Show Spoiler + On May 05 2012 06:31 Kenpachi wrote: ARE YOU GUYS KIDDING ME? DO YOU NOT NOTICE THE TREND HERE? NT i thought at first was not mafia but then layabout cames along and throws in POLICY LYNCH TIME NO NO NO WTF? NO i believe layabout and NT are mafia together because NT NT had aroused suspicions in thread andended in hotshit. He was completely saved by something so stupid. layabout, as his buttbuddy saves him with such a weak push that only the newbs are following. by experience, policy lynch almost always never works. its a scare tactic, not an actual method used to lynch people, especially day 1 i also believe marvellosity is mafia with them because he said NT is scummy and changes his mind like nothing happened such a contradiction, they were made about 3 hours apart. BM is a potent player and everyone knows that. I feel day 1 lynching a veteran is the worst thing you can do. If i were mafia, id put BM near the top of my priority list just because of his sheer experience. He made his scum reads and calls out who he believes to be the remaining scum team. But he doesn't push for their lynch or pressure them or anything at all. As of now I think Kenpachi is a better option than NT. ##Vote Kenpachi I'm hoping I'll make it back before the deadline but I'm not too sure. was the best lynch to support? Why dont you have a look through here and tell me what you learn about kenpachi's play? Then address the cases on the people that should get lynched: Blubbdavid or Nova_Terra or might get mislynched: layabout. Ok, so... are you trying to show me that because he plays like this both as town and scum we should excuse untowny behaviour? I don't like that as an argument as untowny behaviour should always be punished. That being said I understand that perhaps this would be a better job for any vigs we have left. It just seems unlikely unless we do unless we have a pyro. I will keep reading through threads and see if anything convinces me. As I said, other than what I think about lynching into inactives, NT's weird post (see above post) and your hard defence on Katina seem like the strongest indications of scumminess imo. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 07 2012 22:35 layabout wrote: It was more of an "inactivity from a player that's always inactive is meaningless". There is also some merit to the notion that scum will try to lynch Kenpachi. Ok, you might have a point. Will look harder at thread, I just found the cases so far unconvincing (but I guess thats to be expected at this point in the game), and as town is so far ahead I reasoned that policy lynches might not be so bad. I am not sure what you are trying to say but blue pyro's are trackers not not vigis. My bad, just missunderstood read Kurumi's explanatory post regarding Pyros and assumed that the explanation was for both alignment's roles. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
1. I retract my point about Layabout's defence on Katina as being one of the most conclusive points... that was just plain bad reasoning and has been talked about and refuted enough, apologies. 2. Though I am not 100% convinced about people's (laya and mem) defence of Kenpachi, It doesn't seem likely I am gonna convince anyone so I will try and find other people I think are most likely to be scum. 2. This is the best post in the whole thread and I am inclined to agree with it, specifically as blubb has taken his sweet time trying to respond. ##Unvote ##Vote Blubbdavid Defend yourself. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
Still don't like Kenpachi btw... | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 09 2012 04:30 johnnywup wrote: I know it's not really a defense. Whatever. I'm requesting a replacement. Sorry guys. This is so stupid. People should not be able commit to a game if this happens half way through. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 09 2012 04:57 Mementoss wrote: Johnny has been town six times in a row. He rolled scum. He does not how to play or how to act, so he lurks and places stalling posts. He pulls the pity I'm busy into I'm requesting replacement card. ??? Being inactive/finding it difficult to contribute is one thing (I'm hardly one to talk), but requesting a replacement unless there's some sort of IRL urgency is just rude no, whether you are town or scum? Anyway, lets hope your right and this is indeed some hardcore lurky scum tactic pushed to the max and our vig (should we have one left) takes care of him. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
I am unsure as to Layabout. It seems weird he would defend Katina and Kenpachi like he did if he were scum (WIFOM, i know, but still), seems way too obvious (though I don't know his town meta). The one noobie game (VIII I think) I played with NT he played really aggressive scum, which is the opposite of what he's been doing now. That said, its one thing to play aggressive in a noobie game, its quite another if you're playing in a full on game with the likes of BH, Palmar and co... If it comes between the two, I might go for Layabout. this is because a vet dodging cases and not actively scumhunting seems more suspicious to me than a noob. As I am tending towards the NT is bad noob read, and am considering Laya as scum. I'd like to consider Grush as the second lynch candidate. Some of this has been said before but I feel like its worth bringing up again in context with whats happened since Day1 I would vote you blubbdavid, but I have enough people witchhunting me now.(And I didn't even rage on ladder how unlucky am I?) Though, I could just filter and quote everything and that would get the job done. It seems odd that a townie would refuse to vote against someone he thought was scum, particularly as blubb had the strongest case at the time (apart from himself). Not conclusive proof but odd nevertheless. ... more terrible reaction to pressure. He then OMGUSes Blazing hard with: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331187¤tpage=19#376 and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331187¤tpage=19#380 Katina and Sinani then flip scum. He proceeds to make sure that everyone remembers that he: On May 05 2012 07:32 grush57 wrote: THATS RIGHT I RANDOM VOTED KATINA AND I PUT UP SINA206 FOR QUESITONING. This on its own is not alignment dependent as both townie and scum would want to try and shake either misplaced (in the former) or well-placed (in the latter) suspicion. What I think is more determining is how he followed up his play. After a brief though frankly quite weak attack on Ghost: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331187¤tpage=37#725 (if you read this it actually has very little content... easy way to seem proactive townie but really took no effort at all) On May 08 2012 04:04 grush57 wrote: Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with blubb over nova, nova seems more like a bad town than scum much more than blubb.(Did that make sense?) Plus, blubb has a good case against him, the only good case so far in the whole game yet. ##vote: Blubbdavid But what is even more odd, even though he seems pretty sure that laya and ghost are scum, he decides to vote blubb, with practically no reasoning, this makes no sense to me. If its a standard lynch then it is important that you vote for who you see is most likely to be scum and try and convince people since we don't need a town compromise in the case of a makority lynch (do I mean majority or plurality? I mean 50%+1) The rest of his filter are contentless one liners. With a little again, certainty of Ghost and layabout's guilt: On May 08 2012 06:47 grush57 wrote: However seeing I have mystical powers calling these things, I'm gonna go ahead and say layabout, ghost 403 are definite scum. No cases, no content (particularly since he was 'cleared of suspicion - which makes his lurking doubly dangerous), no stances, NOT TOWN ##Vote Grush57 | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
froggynoddy you are now confirmed town . This I already knew, what I want to know is your alignment. Your case on Grush as well as the above scum-list makes a Grush-Laya team exceedingly unlikely (which was one of the /easyhypotheses I was considering). NT's , in my eyes weak/case on papaganda feels like it could be a last ditch attempt to throw off suspicion by picking on a lurker, still not as convinced on NT as I am of Grush. Laya picked up on the odd voting habits of grush and points it out in his case (better than I did), which to me seems townie (at least more so than NT). Of the 3 others on your list i find Eiii the most suspicious due to his wanton sheeping and lack of content. I think NT is a more lynchable candidate though, not to mention your good self (should I somehow be wrong about grush). | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 10 2012 05:21 grush57 wrote: HAHAHAHAH well froggynoddy and layabout are confirmed scum, they just both went on my case as it was a coincidence, even though both cases suck. GL getting the town to lynch with you. Nice OMGUS... again. If you want to defend yourself, do it. If you want to write a case against me (despite you doing it as a result of OMGUS), do that too. for the moment you have some weird weak WIFOM attack against me. Why the hell would scum purposefully double case and then make it look like an accident with Laya saying that I'm confirmed town??? (i'm pretty sure it was a sarcastic comment as people had been attacking him for not making a stand... which is what I just did... an english trait I'm sure) At worst its alignment independent. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
Am at work tomorrow but will try and be available during the day (UK time). g'night | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 11 2012 13:53 l10f wrote: Here's a 100% objective view of the situation. 1 is most likely scum 11 is most likely town. 1. Eiii 2. marvellosity 3. grush57 4. papapanda 5. PaqMan 6. Nova_Terra 7. Sinensis 8. l10f 9. Mementoss 10. froggynoddy 11. Blazinghand Let's just lynch in this order and win? As much as this list puts me in a good light this is plain stupid, all scum have to do is hit the bottom half of the table that isnt them and they hugely increase their chance of winning, we are still ahead, lets hunt scum not use some hald-arsed policy lynch (which is essentially what this is). Not only that but the fact that you've posted this during the night, thus feeding them essentially a priority list. The only person who is pretty much confirmed town to the rest of us is BH (the only situation I can see where he is not is that he is bomber... but I don't know if one could place a bomb and detonate the same day... regardless this possibility is like less than 1% IMO), l10F, rather than make a list, make a detailed case of Eiii and Marv (your top two scum reads), and if either of you is town... MAKE AN EFFORT TO DISPUTE THAT CASE!! The main reason I think Grush and/or NT are most likely to flip scum is that they have been absolutely terrible at arguing against a case that has been presented to them (as well due to as the cases themselves). This, more than lurking (I would say) is hurting town the most as if you were town you would wnat town's energies to be diverted onto a more valid target. One of the goals of any townie is too make sure that if a case is put against you that you dismiss it allowing town to focus on a valid target. No-one has done this apart from layabout (and we lynched him -_-). Either you are scum that cannot defend a case brought against you or you are wasting town's energy and time (which is starting to become a more serious factor) by not adequately defending yourselves. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
I still think Grush and NT are most likely to flip scum. And as Grush has been marginally more useless than NT, and my and laya's cases still have not been addressed. My vote is sticking to Grush. Eiii and Grush and NT need to be more active. The next 24 hours should be enough to prove yourselves to the rest of us that you aren't completely useless to town (at least not purposefully so). ##Vote Grush57 | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 12 2012 12:39 PaqMan wrote: I have read through Day 1. It's much easier to read now that we know who's blue. I am liking a NT lynch and for now I will be putting my vote onto him. Thanks for vote list. I agree I don't think its all that conclusive, will keep looking though. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
Town is dying from inactivity... Those people who want to lynch Eiii over N_T or grush (which is beyond me), give reasons that distinguish him from the other lurkers/low content posters. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 13 2012 00:57 Nova_Terra wrote: And blazinghand told me to quote the exact posts, dont say that i shouldnt copy and paste posts *sigh*, if you actually put in to reading my post then you'd realise I'm not saying don't quote posts accurately, its just your analysis should be more than just block copying another player's case, with no logical premise, conclusion... nothing. If you think that everything you posted is in any way conclusive or even makes sense then you are seriously mistaken. Thats not to say I don't think Eiii is scummy, just that the effort you (amongst others) are putting into the game is pitiful. If I wasn't so sure you're more likely to be just terrible townie than Grush you'd have my vote. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 13 2012 20:33 marvellosity wrote: I'm not sure what is so bad about someone looking into a dead townie's suspicions. And while Sinensis' look at l10f was brief, looking at the use of language isn't a bad way to analyse someone's posts. I called N_T out on this also. Rather than say 'layabout says he's scummy, therefore he is scummy' its better to say 'This point: XXX raised by layabout is convincing because of Y with relation to Z'. Otherwise you get appeal from authority which is not a valid statement. People have been seriously lazy in their scumhunting, BH on N_T as well as laya's (and my cases) on Grush being the exceptions IMHO. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
@Paqman: Your case on Sinensis is better than what anyone has done so far and he seems scummier than both L10F and Eiii. The main reason for me being is that both Eiii and l10F have contributed whilst being pressured and then continued (in l10F's case at least) to try (though poorly) to be helpful to town, and though their defences so far have been pretty piss poor, Sinensis has managed to slide away from any attention through aggressive early voting. I still don't understand how Grush is still alive and unfortunately I still think he's on my strongest scum reads, in this town he has played exactly how to play scum... i.e. don't contribute lest someone attacks you and let town disintegrate (as it has). As I have been the only one (since Laya's death) to be onto him, me alone is not a threat and therefore no need to contribute (if scum), if town there is always a need to contribute. That being said I propose the following, town consolidates over one player, vote and force him to respond and take into consideration that response if considering a lynch. Practically all those who have been lynched have responded too late and so town had no choice but to go on with their lynch. If you are town your job is to stop being mislynched! (I can't believe I have to write that explicitly, but N_T and Grush seem to have not understood this). For me my two scum reads are Grush and Sinensis in that order. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
That being said I am unconvinced regarding l10F. I think we are making too much of a mountain over a molehill regarding l10F's 'list'. As Marv pointed out regarding Sinensis, it seems dumb, be it as townie or scum. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 16 2012 02:14 marvellosity wrote: The fact he made the list is only a fraction of the whole case... I know, it just seems to be recurring constantly and I don't think its indicative of alignment, I'd like to hear from themselves though. (Sinensis and l10F that is) | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
though, Sinensis 'I don't need to defend myself' attitude and giving no reason behind his vote apart from feelings (really? when we ccan basically only afford one more mislynch) Ok so have got my end of year exam today. I will come back to the thread before lynch to see if people come to their senses and vote Grush. If not I think a Sinensis vote seems best. ##Vote Grush57 FYI: The two non-day 1 cases layas: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331187¤tpage=57#1135 mine: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=331187¤tpage=52#1027 | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 17 2012 03:57 grush57 wrote: Well, if l10f doesn't flip scum the 2 scum are the ones voting for me, froggynoddy and Sinesis. ##vote: l10f Am tired of listening to your BS. You're getting lynched next scum. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 18 2012 13:02 PaqMan wrote: Hi, my name is PaqMan, and I am a tracker. + Show Spoiler [breadcrumb] + On May 05 2012 12:43 PaqMan wrote: Then what was your reason for voting her? Becuase all you said was + Show Spoiler + On May 05 2012 05:33 slOosh wrote: Bah isn't deadline in 30 minutes??? I'm down for a katina vote, as outlined by DYH and BH before me. Her filter shows that she has likes and dislikes of what's going on, but she doesn't take that into figuring out alignments. Easy explanation. You knew your scummates were inactive because they werent talking in your QT, so you bussed them. I don't see you coincidentally voting for the two scum that get modkilled. And now you're using that for town credit. Voting with BH because BH seemed town? Couldnt be much lazier. In BHs last game (LII) he tunneled marv his entire game. Guess what marv flipped (town). You say its bull now, but did you do anything to stop it? Nada! you let it run its full course without any objections whatsoever. I dont like theuls. Sloosh looks like scum. now excuse my, im not completely sober. TGIF ftw! I tried to spell out TRACKER but it's a hell lot harder than it looks. I forgot to put in the R also. theuls is sleuth spelled backwards, except I managed to spell it wrong. But it means detective, investigator, tracker. My results for tracking since N1 are as follows: + Show Spoiler [track results] + N1: I tracked SlOosh, no actions made. N2: I tracked layabout, no actions made. N3: I tracked Eiii, no actions made. N4: I tracked Sinensis, Roleblocked! N5: I tracked Sinensis, no actions made. The reason I didn't claim the day before is because only Vanilla Townies are notified if they are role blocked, so I didn't want to give myself away. The last two scum is Roleblocker and Godfather. This is significant information because it means that the last two scum are always visiting other people. The roleblocker is visiting someone to RB them, and the GF is visiting someone to send in the kill. They're always moving. This basically clears Sinensis as VT. The remaining people are: grush57, marvellosity, papapanda, and froggynoddy. Two of them are scum. I would be completely okay with lynching marv. In fact, last night I was pretty confident that either me or him would be killed. I was not expecting Eiii to die. I think the only reason they wouldn't kill him is because he might push a mislynch. I will go back and read into them but they need to be our main focus. This seems legit. However, you are assuming that its not possible for the roleblocker to send both actions at once (or am I being a noob here?), if so it would make sense for Scum to minimise their movements (assuming they are acting optimally) and more importantly this would not clear Sinensis (though I personally think he and now Paqman are least likely to be scum,). Papaganda, where you at? I still think Grush should die, he HAS to be scum, I'm not going to post the cases against him again but he still hasn't responded. Though this does make Marv less townie than I had previously thought (him and Paqman have been most-pro town since BH died). Grush at the very least try and persuade me why you aren't scum (though I doubt you can) ##Vote Grush57 Just noticed Paqman's vote. How am I more scummy than others on your list(especially Grush!?!), give me your reasons and I will try and stop you from losing us the game. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 18 2012 19:46 Sinensis wrote: Yeah, this is a serious problem. You definitely pushed for my lynch hard the 5th day; if you were a TOWN tracker you would not try to get me killed after learning mafia roleblocked me. Your bread crumbing is TAC not TRACKER and that isn't sleuth spelled backward that some jumbled drunk text you wrote. I'm placing my vote on you until you respond. ##Vote: PaqMan I really don't think its in any way likely that Paqman isn't town tracker. It looks like its between me, grush, papa, marv (and you if scum RB can give both block and NK orders). | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 18 2012 22:42 Kurumi wrote: Nope. But one person might execute all the kills for an example. Ok so unless 'Scum Roleblocker Sinensis' decided (with no logical reason) not to roleblock on Paqman's second check he is definitely town. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On May 19 2012 03:55 grush57 wrote: Guys, its froggynoddy. ##vote: Froggynoddy You have no say in this scum. All your voting and reasoning has been terrible. If town believe you now then we deserve to lose. If we believe papa and Paqman's claims (IMO 99%; 80% likelihoods respectively) then all I can say is that marv/grush scum team is 90% certain with an outside chance of a Grush/sinensis scum team (in the case where sinensis is the roleblocker who for some reason or other decided not to act on N5; this could be because the other scum has better power or just due to human error... I realise this is unlikely though). Going on my (I'll admit somewhat arbitrary) probabilities I'd have to vote for Grush today and hope I can convince enough of you tomorrow (game tomorrow that is). I'm getting up at 4am tomorrow to ref national bball school finals up north... My last game is at 4pm GMT so I should be able to visit the thread before lynch. Am going to bed now, but all I can say is that right now we are at LYLO and we have to vote who we think is almost certainly scum and for me, without a shadow of a doubt, that is Grush. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
@Ken: -brofist- @Marv: -evenbiggerbrofist- @Town: gg In a way I was exceptionally lucky that all this lurking was going on as this has been the busiest persiods I've had all year what with Stag do, MA exam (with the associated revision-drinking), and finally my reffing commitments. I honestly think Grush should be scum MVP, it would have been pretty much impossible to win otherwise. PS: papaganda that was a really cool move, well played. | ||
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