EPTTL Mafia 'Area' LIII
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johnnywup
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johnnywup
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On April 15 2012 04:03 Mementoss wrote: Hopefully mattchew is not on the scum team he might out them all on his death  jk <3 haha, no ones ever gonna let that get away from him  honest mistakeand i still wub mattchew <3shouldbe a fun game though | ||
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johnnywup
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johnnywup
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johnnywup
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I've never understood really, Flavor is just the theme? Also good luck have fun everyone, let's have a good game | ||
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johnnywup
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he didn't post it in the voting thread so i'm gonna guess it was a joke | ||
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johnnywup
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On April 21 2012 09:15 Mattchew wrote: So anyway should we policy lynch Bill Murray because a. he is scum in like 99% of his recent games b. he gets away with everything "because he's Bill Murray" No, because he's Bill Murray. Seriously though, Policy Lynches should be a last resort. This is stated at the beginning of every game by one player or another, I don't get how people still want policy lynches. | ||
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johnnywup
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johnnywup
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On April 21 2012 09:22 layabout wrote: No more talk of policy lynching players because we hate reading their posts. We do need some sort of talking point however. I suggest we all say what we think vigilantes should do given the setup. I think that if they do shoot they should claim their shot well in advance to give a tracker the chance to track them. This would make it extremely risky for mafia to claim vigilante. you said what they should do, which makes it seem like you think there is definitely a vig. so I wanted to clarify that there might not be one at all. | ||
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johnnywup
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On April 21 2012 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote: I want to lynch any Vig claims. One less night-kill immune GF if he's fake-claiming, and one less possible townie death due to vig misfire imoimo wat? "lets kill vigs because they might misfire". not even if they do misfire, which makes them a lot more likely mafia. very wtf from you VE. | ||
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On April 21 2012 10:22 Mementoss wrote: It seems like a waste to go through things that possibly aren't even in the game. Also I'm just saying that say a scum could give an opinions towards the town that directs blue in a way that doesn't benefit town. I'm not sure of the best course of action towards vig. Im trying to think why a scum would want to claim vig. If there goon and they get tracked they are going to get killed. If they are GF they just bring attention to themselves. I guess they could claim a shot that didn't go through as there would be no counter claim and try to kill an innocent townie by making them look like a mafia. But its a suicide plan. VE says kill all claimed vig shots, or tracked vig shots. On the face this seems scummy as you might kill a town. But I think it is a reasonable point. If you kill a claimed shot, you have at least a 40% (if 3 vigs 2 GF) chance of hitting scum, but it is more likely 50%(2 vigs 2 GF) or 66%(1 vig 2 GF). That is assuming a townie wouldnt be stupid enough to lie and fake the claim. The only problem is we really can't verify if we killed scum or not. But this might scare real vigs away from claiming shots. Sooo not sure what to do. Lol. If it doesn't benefit town we'll call them out on it and won't do it. Scum goon could claim vig then say their shot failed. We can't know if they're scum or not. Obviously its more likely but nothings certain. We'll only know after death (goon will flip goon, gf will flip gf). If we always lynch failed vig shots (or kp if fake claim) then it's possible we have a dead townie. Although I say we should auto-lynch failed vig shots in order to make scum not want to claim. It's not statistics though. It really depends on the situation. Lynching failed vig shots is better because if it's a true vig it gives them the shot to kill scum (though they should withhold it until theyre almost completely sure who they're shooting is scum), if it's scum we'll be killing them anyways the day after they claim. So they'll probably die anyways. My idea gives the chance to lynch a different person the day-of. If a vig is claiming, theres probably a better candidate anyways. Death Vig miller guys are created to die pretty much. They'll have to be killed at some point, as we can't completely trust someone who claims. If they want to help the town they can claim and make a correct shot, and not claim until they're sure they can make a correct shot. | ||
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johnnywup
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On April 21 2012 10:49 PaqMan wrote: I like Gonzaw's idea of the vig's claiming. Only problem with that is that Scum will have a list of vig's and won't have to do any sniping.. So now that I think about it, I don't really like that idea at all lol. Town can't keep assuming things this game. It'll make an ass out of u and me. We don't know how many of what roles there are and continuous speculation isn't going to help at all. it's actually in scums best interest to keep millervigs alive, as they create so much confusion which is usually scums job. All scum would have to do is make sure the vigs are on the wrong track. So because of this VE's plan of killing all vig's isn't a bad idea. But no vig's would ever claim under it. I think the best course of action is lynching any vig claims the day after, if they miss their shot. Scum wouldn't ever claim if we make a rule out of that. Also this isn't continuous speculation, this is discussing the game. Don't like it? Too bad. It's not like we can avoid this topic. It's important to the game so we talk about it. | ||
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johnnywup
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We can't be certain claims are true. So hows that gonna help with chaos later? I say lynch all vig's day after they shoot and only if its a misfire. That way, like I said, theres NO WAY scum would claim. obviously there could be a jk and claim it didn't go through. I also say that JK's shouldn't protect/rb claimed vigis or the person they claim to be shooting, that way there's no way that they can argue their way out of it. If there's a JK and he goes by this rule and the scum does it anyways, the JK could claim. If there isn't a JK, then no one will claim it's true/isn't true. If we go by this rule, then if there is some scum that claims anyways, then we can know right away. we lynch if they misfire, we lynch if they don't try to move out, we lynch if they claim they or person they're firing at was JK'd. We're almost guaranteed at least 2 of those tells, possibly 3. I want people's thoughts on this. | ||
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On April 21 2012 11:34 MidnightGladius wrote: If they nightkill our vig claims, and we get a player flipping Godfather with the daypost, then we can guarantee that it's an actual vig. GFs are immune to nightkills, so the mafia can't even kill their own GFs. It has to be a vig. That nullifies the anti-town nature of the death miller mechanic, and I'm confident that we can win from there. The plan is strictly meant to deal with and neutralize the chaos that the death miller mechanic would otherwise generate. I think it does a good job of doing so. Look at the scenarios I pointed out on the bottom of page 10: In each case, the town gets very useful information, we don't have to deal with later-game vig claims, and we force the mafia to make fake claims very early on, allowing us to cross-examine all of their subsequent behavior. Also, I'm not comfortable using scumslips as evidence, and I don't think a scum player would propose a plan that seems highly likely to benefit the town. I'm not willing to vote gonzaw at the moment. I'm not saying the "our" was a scumslip, it might have been, but...wat? You're not comfortable using scumslips as evidence? | ||
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johnnywup
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1) There's possible fakeclaims that really fuck us 2) There's realclaims we can't verify 3 and most importantly) Scum wouldn't want to kill the real vigs as it creates a lot of chaos, so if scum and vigs claim, they start killing people who are more likely a more useful power role (jk and tracker). Overall, it puts us in a bad position. Sure we MAY be able to verify on their death, but that doesn't even help us much. | ||
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johnnywup
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On April 21 2012 11:21 johnnywup wrote: @gonzaws post directed at me We can't be certain claims are true. So hows that gonna help with chaos later? I say lynch all vig's day after they shoot and only if its a misfire. That way, like I said, theres NO WAY scum would claim. obviously there could be a jk and claim it didn't go through. I also say that JK's shouldn't protect/rb claimed vigis or the person they claim to be shooting, that way there's no way that they can argue their way out of it. If there's a JK and he goes by this rule and the scum does it anyways, the JK could claim. If there isn't a JK, then no one will claim it's true/isn't true. If we go by this rule, then if there is some scum that claims anyways, then we can know right away. we lynch if they misfire, we lynch if they don't try to move out, we lynch if they claim they or person they're firing at was JK'd. We're almost guaranteed at least 2 of those tells, possibly 3. I want people's thoughts on this. | ||
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johnnywup
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 I think my plan is a good one and I want people's thoughts on it.On April 21 2012 11:21 johnnywup wrote: @gonzaws post directed at me We can't be certain claims are true. So hows that gonna help with chaos later? I say lynch all vig's day after they shoot and only if its a misfire. That way, like I said, theres NO WAY scum would claim. obviously there could be a jk and claim it didn't go through. I also say that JK's shouldn't protect/rb claimed vigis or the person they claim to be shooting, that way there's no way that they can argue their way out of it. If there's a JK and he goes by this rule and the scum does it anyways, the JK could claim. If there isn't a JK, then no one will claim it's true/isn't true. If we go by this rule, then if there is some scum that claims anyways, then we can know right away. we lynch if they misfire, we lynch if they don't try to move out, we lynch if they claim they or person they're firing at was JK'd. We're almost guaranteed at least 2 of those tells, possibly 3. I want people's thoughts on this. | ||
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johnnywup
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johnnywup
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but what stops actual gfs from doing the same thing? its stupid, because we still can't know. I think you and VE are going at each other based on nothing. Although: I don't like you using someone elses meta to explain his behavior though. That's retarded. I don't like his avoiding people asking him why JKs wouldnt co-operate. That's also retarded. Although it may just be that VE just doesn't think JKs would co-operate even though they should. Lack of trust maybe. Either way both of you are just attacking each other without that much actual substance. He's pressuring you, gonzaw, and you're over-reacting. | ||
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johnnywup
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Can we have filters added to op? | ||
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On April 21 2012 10:18 PaqMan wrote: So what's the plan? just stupid question without content when theres already stuff being discussed, isnt paying attention to where threads going On April 21 2012 10:49 PaqMan wrote: I like Gonzaw's idea of the vig's claiming. Only problem with that is that Scum will have a list of vig's and won't have to do any sniping.. So now that I think about it, I don't really like that idea at all lol. Town can't keep assuming things this game. It'll make an ass out of u and me. We don't know how many of what roles there are and continuous speculation isn't going to help at all. Agrees, disagrees, then says it's not even worth talking about + Show Spoiler + doesn't even read the posts he's talking about, (RTFT) On April 21 2012 11:43 PaqMan wrote: Woops, I'm sorry! Scarface is on tv and I'm trying to multitask. It isn't working out obviously, so I'll be back in about three hours. excuses to stay away from thread, scarface is less than 3 hours so trying to get more time away than the movie provides On April 21 2012 11:49 PaqMan wrote: I'm not convinced that he made a scum slip. When he said "our" he could have been referring to whoever agreed with his points. I want to see what Gonzaw has to say about your accusation. unwilling to take a stance despite responding to it, basically just says "wait for gonzaw to respond to it" On April 21 2012 12:01 PaqMan wrote: But I do agree with you VE. Giving scum any more info puts them in an even greater advantage over us. A mass vig claim would be the same as handing them a hit list. some of gonzaw's points however are pretty valid (no late-game chaos with vig claiming before lynch, etc etc). Either way, I can't see a vig following either one of y'alls policies. He claims, town lynches him and nothing is gained. He claims, chance of mafia taking him out or keeps him alive, either way there's chaos. I suggest that our vigilante (if we have one) doesn't claim at all. If he's about to be lynched then he needs to defend himself as a normal townie because claiming vig is going to create a shitstorm for us, which gives scum the upper hand. If he's going to use his kp one someone, he doesn't need to claim before or after the kill. It's going to create too much confusion and WIFOM and finger-pointing and shit. So I think that vigilantes should not make any claims this game. like you said, only argues for something that has already gained traction. individually all these aren't that scummy but together it looks super scummy | ||
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johnnywup
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On April 21 2012 13:27 gonzaw wrote: To Johnny: Doing what? Even if it were "pointless" (trust me it's not), having vigs NOT claim doesn't make anything better. The pros of having vigs claim are better than them not claiming, and the cons may be the same regarding the GF flip (even though I think they are not). So the cons are the same (again, I don't think they are, but let's assume them for the sake of the argument) but vigs claiming has more pros, so it's the better choice anyways. lol is that the only thing you've noticed from my post? And it's not meta, it's scum behaviour. Artanis' scum meta is barely posting until people accuse him. Him pointing out my "scumslip" has nothing to do with his meta, but with his behaviour. Please read my accusation on him and post what you think about it. You know, the one where he discredits my plan because of a retarded JK matter, where he FoSes me based on a stupid "scumslip" (which he should have known is stupid and doesn't matter at all) and therefore keeps discrediting my plan as well, and where he avoids discussing things people ask him, or where he tries to disrupt town (just pick anything from that post I made). He's FoSing, voting me and making 90% of his posts a reminder to other people to vote me, because of a "scumslip". That's not pressure. There's just as much uncertainty in vig claims as not claiming altogether. i read your whole post but that did stand out to me. I don't think VE is necessarily scum he's just giving his opinion like you are. VE's been playing like blazinghand with his telling people who's scum gogo kill them. is BH scum when he does that? hes hardly ever been scum, so no he isn't. This whole thing reminds me of VE vs BH where both ended up being town. Both did scummy things admittedly but that doesn't make both scum. You tunnel so much on each other that you discount anything else. | ||
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On April 22 2012 03:04 Risen wrote: I think you're making up bullshit to try and push an easy wagon on me. ##vote layabout I'm done for now. I'll change my vote if someone does something scummy but I don't see anything and I think someone trying to push a wagon at this point is our best bet. I'll vote for the hydra too. Votes layabout for posting.... "Anyone feel like Risen is hustlin' us?". THE MOMENT he senses danger he votes. Seems pretty scummy to me. On April 22 2012 04:02 St.Daniel wrote: It's so fucking hard to keep up with everything when you are at a camp with a crappy internet connection XD I've read everything and I can't conclude anything with a confident, but I do have some ideas based on my observation so far. I'll post again as soon as I put some of pieces together. And there is no need to be hostile at each this early in game, because thst's EXACTLY what they (scum) want. As long as we keep expressing ideas without trying to bite each other's head off. Remember, keep it simple and clear. <3 TL. Honestly this post is so fucking scummy it's ridiculous. What it boils down to is "I don't have any opinions, I haven't posted because of x excuse, people should post how I want them to, I know what scum wants". Fucking ridiculous. On April 21 2012 23:00 PaqMan wrote: BJ wtf did I just read. The only posts that made any sense was the one about the mass roleclaims and the fos on marvellosity, which I agree on. I think he'd be a good candidate for a vigi shot. I'm voting for mattchew. Dude's scummy as hell. Also, That's his only post since the game has started. He'd be a good vigi shot as well. ##Vote: Mattchew Brings up why BM is scum then votes mattchew. weird but not necessarily scummy. Overall I think that the marv case was initially good but marv has shaped it up and I don't think is that scummy anymore. I think [UoN] Sentinel is the scummiest and I will post a case on him in a bit. | ||
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johnnywup
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BJ's 2nd case is much more compelling than the first, imo. he hasn't given scum reads or really SAID much at all. I agree marv is scummy scum. ##vote marvellosity | ||
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On April 22 2012 09:11 ghost_403 wrote: @paqman: I really don't understand why I have to waste my time responding to this, but here it goes. That note stems directly from your "There can't be more than 3 vigs" comment. Apparently, it's because you were paying attention to something else. Okay, that's fine, whatever. Why do you keep bringing this up? Who cares? Stop watching TV while posting, and find scum. As a town, we have better things to do than discuss why you did something dumb. why dont you find scum as well? all that you just said could be directed towards you | ||
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On April 22 2012 09:16 ghost_403 wrote: @johnny: I did. I wanna lynch Sentinel. Wanna help me out? I'd like to see your case. Because while I still think sentinel is fairly scummy I don't think the evidence in front of me proves anything about his alignment. | ||
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On April 15 2012 04:29 iGrok wrote: PMs PMs are not allowed in this game. | ||
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On April 22 2012 09:53 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Hell, I'll give you some points for honesty, but could you at least PM me the case? I'd like to know my charges. Let's see why Otto doesn't like me: no, PMs=PMs. | ||
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##unvote ##vote Bill Murray | ||
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Well there's no reason why a scum ve would claim but theres quite a few reasons a town ve shouldnt claim. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Zephirdd has hardly any posts so this should be a simple case. All of which are scummy. On April 21 2012 12:58 Zephirdd wrote: /confirm Usually millers have to claim as soon as they realize they are millers; However in this case the millers are also vigilantes, and we can't really protect them without RBing them. I also will see a problem when, for example, one person claims vigilante; as in, the GFs didn't claim. Suddenly all the info we got from these "claims" is that our only vigilante is outed and mafia got a target on his head. gonzaw didn't seem to care about this one possibility; I don't like that. I didn't read much past page 10 tho, and gotta go to sleep and go into my inactive mode(as I said before the game). That's all. ~cya Here, let me provide you information that you already know! On April 22 2012 06:10 Zephirdd wrote: k, too much to catch up on, too little time. I see gonzaw arrived a reasonable way to "plan" vigilantes here. That is, a vigilante should just play as a normal vigi. I still can't be sure who I should vote. I see marvellosity is leading the votecount, can someone provide me a link to a case of his, or even a page where I can find it? I know it's silly to ask for that, but I am really busy atm and as much as I can condense what is happening, the easier it will be to catch up. I promise I'll do better day2 onwards Indecisive, not scumhunting, doesn't want to put in effort to help town (even though he's busy he should be able to look for at least that), apologetic about his inactivity. all simple scum tells. I'm busy I'm busy, please, try make more excuses. On April 23 2012 00:17 Zephirdd wrote: God damnit layabout. I was about to post how VE's claim made sense and how he was town, but then you convince me the opposite. Geez. And this martyring post from VE only makes sense from two PoVs: - He really is a JK and he will let town use his flip information to deal with what happened during the day - He is scum trying to sound like that. Also, right now, I see no reason to lynch Bill Murray - he should be vigged, not lynched if he doesn't contribute soon. VE, what is your stance on gonzaw, especially after his series of (Seemingly) drunk posts? Also, please make the case against the certain scum you are talking about. Should you flip JK, we got something solid to work from. In fact, I'll take you are claiming scum if you don't do that. this post is just ridiculous. layabouts post seemingly made him drop all of his opinions and run the opposite direction in order to stay with the crowd. gives information we've already taken into account. asks questions and asks ve to make a case when he still hasnt made any of his opinions known besides that he thinks ve may be scum because he claimed. wow what an original opinion he arrived at. then goes on to say VE is scum if he doesnt comply with his own wishes...lol. On April 23 2012 02:07 Zephirdd wrote: Gonzaw, please tell me why should we lynch risen over VE right now. There was a post RIGHT before that that zephirdd was referring to...which answered that question. If he saw the post, why didn't he read unless he's trying to ask questions to fit in? On April 23 2012 02:13 Zephirdd wrote: I thought it was common sense that vigis claim their shot beforehand in order to allow JKs to coordinate themselves and especially because scum shouldnt NK a vigilante.. okay thats great but do you have anything new to add? a scum case? because as far as I'm concerned you're not doing anything pro-town at all. this post just makes himself look confused or smart or whatever in order to fit in. just ridiculous. ##unvote ##vote zephirdd | ||
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On April 23 2012 07:03 ghost_403 wrote: @johnnywup: I have no idea why you thought a few hours before the lynch was a good time to bring forward another lynch candidate. Seriously? Honestly? I think he's scum. And because I forgot when day ends. | ||
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On April 23 2012 07:31 Risen wrote: Stop. Now. There's 4 people talking letting every other person just watch the thread burn. Scum can so easily just skate when stuff like this is going on. Why aren't we all on BM? He's done NOTHING. Why are people on the only blue claim we have still? GET OFF VE why are you defending VE so much, telling people to get off his ass? Personally I think he's town because in LI he was scum and he worked his ass off to clear his name for like 2 days straight. This is the polar opposite. And exactly: BM Has done NOTHING. Will lynching him give us any information if he's town OR scum? No. He'll be dead and we'll be back at square one. On April 23 2012 07:09 ghost_403 wrote: Johnny's lurking like a bawse. @Johnnywup: Your lynch isn't going to happen today. Who's your next choice? I'm not really lurking. Everyones shouting at everyone and I don't want to add to the shouting. I'd lynch Risen or BM if it came down to it. | ||
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On April 23 2012 07:32 Risen wrote: EBWOP: I can't do this. I'm done. Get off VE. Get onto whoever you want. I don't know why wbg can direct people so well posting so little and I'm screaming in the thread and no one does anything. wbg isn't in this game... | ||
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On April 23 2012 07:52 Zephirdd wrote: Deadline in 10min right? Im posting from a phone so its not easy to read through the thread. If you're wondering, unless VE has made a case against someone since his martyring post, I take he is scum. "if he made a case he's ok though (no matter what the case was or against who), but i won't know because I don't actually read the thread". *sigh*. I don't understand. ;_; | ||
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Also I guess zephirdd isn't getting lynched today, so ##unvote | ||
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##vote BillMurray | ||
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On April 23 2012 16:29 Bill Murray wrote: oh people were voting me? this game... lets vote our power roles out of the game, guys, good job Why aren't we talking about this? BM comes in out of nowhere and says that he's a power role. What do you guys make of it? | ||
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On April 24 2012 06:47 Bill Murray wrote: johnnywup is parroting pacman on 42 regarding zephirrd ? I created the initial case against zephirdd bro | ||
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On April 23 2012 07:45 Zephirdd wrote: Just for the record, im last minute voting VE in order to avoid a modkill; I dont recall any other candidate better than him either, although I kinda lost track since page 30 or so Yeah, your best read | ||
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One thing I do know is you were pushing the VE lynch and I don't think you're in the position to try and lynch someone who opposed it. | ||
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On April 24 2012 08:02 Zephirdd wrote: It was my best read at the time and, if I recall correctly, of other 7 players. Sorry, your case is weak. Too weak. And when a case is so weak, it is usually wrong. Food for thought. you voted him so you wouldn't get modkilled, right before (what you thought was) the deadline. That's not your "best read". That's not "A read" at all. That's you trying to ninjavote and get a lynch on a jailkeeper. | ||
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and: how can one post make you flip 180 and think ve is scum from thinking he is town. what solid information do we have to work from from him flipping jk how can you take him NOT posting as him claiming scum. | ||
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On April 24 2012 08:31 Zephirdd wrote: What the fuck is this. I was afk most of the time I didn't have time for a fucking case, I didn't have time to analyze other players and I could post at that time by luck(although I guess I ended up with an extra hour, but not enough to change my opinion on the matter). Where the f* did I flip 180? You mean layabout thing? How about you open the freaking thread and read about it? Like, his post is right before mine. It convinced me; that's what this game is about isn't it? Convincing people? Martyr post from him didn't help either. Want solid information? What about look at the list of people who were screaming their asses off about how sure we shouldn't vote him and how sure they were that he was town? That's a start. But it would be better if he actually gave us more than a fucking four player list that says nothing. If I'm getting lynched, I(should) post a list of reads to help town look at my town-confirmed perspective after my flip. That's what every town player that realizes he will be lynched should do. VE didn't do that, which made me believe he was scum 'till the very end. I'm not gonna take the afk excuse. i dont think its "lucky" that you got back moments before when you thought the lynch was gonna happen. I think you wanted to vote at the last second to avoid a modkill and solidify a lynch on VE. You flipped completely 180. Yeah the games about convincing, but are your opinions really that flimsy? Take a stance. If your opinions can be changed completely in one post something going on. That's not solid information. We don't have any idea who scum is based on his flip. So how does that help? You said "Should you flip JK, we got something solid to work from". We don't have anything solid to work from. And that quote is actually a scum tell to me. The "Should you flip JK" tone seemed like you already knew how he was going to flip. At the very least you didn't sound confident he would flip scum. So he didn't post his reads before he died, what a jerk right? That didn't make him scum. Just because you would do something like that doesn't make you town. The point is we're back at square one, and while the people on his lynch are more likely scum than the rest, like I said to layabout, we don't know where to start. | ||
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He was def scummy early on but he's made up for it. Probably because he was pressured by BJ. He could just be bad initially and was pushed to play better. Overall I'm neutral on him. And how is it buddying for both players thinking the same person is scum | ||
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On April 24 2012 09:01 Zephirdd wrote: If two players thing the same person is scum, then this is what is happening. a> Target is scum and both players are town b> Target is scum and one of the players is bussing him c> Target is town and both players are wrong d> Target is town and one of the players is scum e> Target is town and both players are scum I believe d or e is happening. In either case, that means you must believe marv is town OR you both are scum. If you don't believe marv is town, then suddenly I can't possibly be scum. Ofc there is the "buss" possibility, but that would be beyond ridiculous. ? | ||
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so it's been over 24hr | ||
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On April 24 2012 10:16 Zephirdd wrote: It was one hour before the deadline, there wouldn't be any bandwagon. Besides, I suggested marv there because people had been voting him. In that specific post, I hadn't had analyzed people yet. I meant that marvellosity was a reasonable player to place a vote on and not look bad for voting VE. There was nothing wrong there. | ||
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On April 24 2012 10:41 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Fuck, have to push back my reply to tomorrow early morning. why are you so sure you'll survive? | ||
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keep talking if you want. but i feel like its fair to stop talking now | ||
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Will be taking a look at gonzaws and slOosh's filter now. I thought sloOosh was actually being pretty scummy. Interesting. | ||
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Gonzaw suggested to vote to lynch Sentinel today. While I'd prefer a Zephirdd lynch, I'd be willing to support a Sentinel lynch as well if it gains enough popularity. He seemed scummy all game long, but I couldn't really put into words why. Gonzaw made a good post about why, and now that Gonzaw is dead (read: confirmed town), I feel that a Sentinel Lynch would be good. slOosh's filter leads me to believe he thought MidnightGladius to be the most likely scum, with Zephirdd in 2nd place. The zephirdd in 2nd place is based solely on the "Marv: thoughts on MidnightGladius and Zephirdd" post, but it shows he has zephirdd in his mind and wants opinions on him. I hadn't really looked into MG, like Gonzaw, and will be looking at him closer soon. Will report back when I read MG's filter and come to a conclusion. For now, I want to ask who town would like to lynch more: Zephirdd or Sentinel? | ||
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On April 24 2012 13:16 MidnightGladius wrote: My point exactly. Why lead with a question about Zeph v Sent, when you've already decided on the answer yourself during the night, without voting? Why would a town player hesitate to vote first? Why would a town player try to build consensus (ie a quick bandwagon) at the very beginning of the day? I haven't decided on the answer -_- I'm willing to lynch either because I think both are scum? | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel Zephirdd Two of BroodKingEXE, MidnightGladius, St.Daniel, Risen, or Bill Murray Anyone disagree? | ||
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##vote Zephirdd | ||
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Why BM above Sentinel or Zephirdd? | ||
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layabout pointed this out but I think it needs restating. Mattchew has been pushing BM since early early day 1 pushing him since early early day 1. Early day1= 20 minutes after day1 started before BM even posted. He has gotten scummier but that's not enough of a justification because since the beginning mattchew was ok with policy lynch. He was probably joking but he could have "planted the seed in our mind" from early on. I'm probably overthinking things though. On April 21 2012 09:15 Mattchew wrote: So anyway should we policy lynch Bill Murray because a. he is scum in like 99% of his recent games b. he gets away with everything "because he's Bill Murray" On April 25 2012 05:33 MidnightGladius wrote: Also, ghost, why are you so dedicated to the idea of lining up multiple lynches? Between now and the next Day, multiple people will have died, we might get a vig-claim, etc. It's incredibly naive to think that you're sufficiently sure today. While true this post discounts Ghost's "plan" completely. His plan being the "Kill Sentinel today, Ottox tommorrow" plan. While I may not necessarily agree with it, MG doesn't actually talk about the "plan" itself. He says "You might not be alive tommorrow, they might not be alive tommorrow, so why even talk about it", essentially. Ghosts plan doesnt have to do with him being alive, so why bring it up, other than to distract the point and discount the idea. On April 25 2012 06:38 Ottoxlol wrote: I tried I came up with nothing. I posted it 10 times at least. I wouldn't get on any case just for the sake of having a case. You can't find anyone scummy? Not even from other peoples reads and arguments? Ottox seems unwilling to take a stance, no matter how hard pressed. I still think Zephirdd and Sentinel are best choices for the lynch today. | ||
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also I just got that movie from the library, funnily enough. Haven't seen it before and I've heard it's really good | ||
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On April 23 2012 06:45 Risen wrote: [...] I don't have much time, I'm driving back to Flagstaff very shortly. I'm going to cut all this nonsense short and post cases against every person on VE. They're all idiots and/or scum who should be killed. On April 23 2012 07:47 Risen wrote: Layabout. Please respond. Why are you still on VE? Anyone else still on VE, why are you still on VE? On April 23 2012 07:32 Risen wrote: EBWOP: I can't do this. I'm done. Get off VE. Get onto whoever you want. I don't know why wbg can direct people so well posting so little and I'm screaming in the thread and no one does anything. You don't say you're certain, Risen, but you certainly imply it. | ||
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On April 25 2012 09:08 Bill Murray wrote: How have I not been scumhunting, Johnny? Read my iso. I read it, there's no scumhunting there. Please quote your post, because I honestly don't see any case. | ||
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On April 24 2012 10:16 Zephirdd wrote: It was one hour before the deadline, there wouldn't be any bandwagon. Besides, I suggested marv there because people had been voting him. In that specific post, I hadn't had analyzed people yet. I meant that marvellosity was a reasonable player to place a vote on and not look bad for voting VE. There was nothing wrong there. This post really pisses me off. I already posted I didn't like this and I thought it was contradictory. After I posted my disapproval of this post he says "Let me just place a palm in my face in the hopes that you realize how much of a bad logic that was." To restate what's wrong with it, if it's not obvious...it's that he says he Votes Marv because people had been voting him. Ok, sheeping. He hadn't analyzed him yet. Ok, relying on other people to be right. That's all scummy but the next thing blows it away. "I meant that marvellosity was a reasonable player to place a vote on and not look bad for voting VE". I think this is basically claiming scum because he basically admits to knowing how VE would flip. He knew he'd look bad if he voted VE before the lynch. How is that possible? Because he's mafia, obviously. His vote on marvellosity aside, that line alone makes him almost 100% scum in my eyes, and I already suspected him at that point. | ||
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Did anyone read my post on Zeph's post? I feel like Zeph should be getting more votes by now. | ||
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Didn't notice the BM thing. | ||
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On April 25 2012 09:27 johnnywup wrote: I guess since no one's voting Zephirdd, I'll have to remake a case against him. I'm only going to post my thoughts on one post because I think it's enough to show how scummy Zephirdd is. This post really pisses me off. I already posted I didn't like this and I thought it was contradictory. After I posted my disapproval of this post he says "Let me just place a palm in my face in the hopes that you realize how much of a bad logic that was." To restate what's wrong with it, if it's not obvious...it's that he says he Votes Marv because people had been voting him. Ok, sheeping. He hadn't analyzed him yet. Ok, relying on other people to be right. That's all scummy but the next thing blows it away. "I meant that marvellosity was a reasonable player to place a vote on and not look bad for voting VE". I think this is basically claiming scum because he basically admits to knowing how VE would flip. He knew he'd look bad if he voted VE before the lynch. How is that possible? Because he's mafia, obviously. His vote on marvellosity aside, that line alone makes him almost 100% scum in my eyes, and I already suspected him at that point. | ||
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On April 25 2012 23:10 Ottoxlol wrote: I still feel it is scummy that you hesitate to vote first, asking for a town consensus to jump a wagon. You had a strong read, vote for it. Why is asking for a consensus scummy? we need to consolidate votes so scum can't ninja vote one target and have a townie killed. and the time that i posted that and didn't vote for zeph? 16 minutes after day post. that's not withholding my vote, thats investigating the information the night gave us. you're grasping at straws here. + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 12:37 iGrok wrote: Day 2 ![[image loading]](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/004/077/Raisins_Face.jpg){kind=icon} It was midnight...... the aliens had woken up......... the aliens started to eliminate one by one.... the survivors of yesterday's incident..... No outside contact had been made yet...... Though the Government were worried on why the communications were out, the government was fearing the worst... Back in the command center.... it was one hour past midnight.... the aliens were communicating secretly between each other........ Then, they reached a conclusion... "Hey!!!!!Wha-" gonzaw screamed........ it wasn't over however.... the aliens clawed gonzaw with huge ferocity...... "Hey....... I....... See somethi-" slOosh was then also clawed........ The aliens quickly shape shifted back into their human forms and then..... they pretended to sleep again. In the morning. "Hey! What's this! I see blood!" Paqman yelled, everyone else were woken up because of this. "I.... I think something happened last night....." Janaan as he shared his opinion "We better quickly eliminate these things, I guess" Mementoss said... "Yeah...." "I think so too......." Others responded It was now day, they again, started discussing with each other on who was the alien. gonzaw the Townie was brutally clawed! slOosh the Townie was also clawed! It is now Day 2, the deadline is at 8:00p, EST in two days. + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 12:53 johnnywup wrote: Gonzaw had a lot of reads and I think we should look into them. Particularly he seemed very convinced that Sentinel was scum. Other than Sentinel he found BroodkingEXE, Daniel, Risen, and Zephirdd scummy as well. I suggest we take a close look at each one of them. Everyone else he found townie to some extent, except he finds BJ worthless, ottox "neutral", but somewhat suspicious (I'm interpreting it that way at least). He also says ghost is "maybe town", and that MG he didn't really look into. Gonzaw suggested to vote to lynch Sentinel today. While I'd prefer a Zephirdd lynch, I'd be willing to support a Sentinel lynch as well if it gains enough popularity. He seemed scummy all game long, but I couldn't really put into words why. Gonzaw made a good post about why, and now that Gonzaw is dead (read: confirmed town), I feel that a Sentinel Lynch would be good. slOosh's filter leads me to believe he thought MidnightGladius to be the most likely scum, with Zephirdd in 2nd place. The zephirdd in 2nd place is based solely on the "Marv: thoughts on MidnightGladius and Zephirdd" post, but it shows he has zephirdd in his mind and wants opinions on him. I hadn't really looked into MG, like Gonzaw, and will be looking at him closer soon. Will report back when I read MG's filter and come to a conclusion. For now, I want to ask who town would like to lynch more: Zephirdd or Sentinel? | ||
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On April 25 2012 23:38 Ottoxlol wrote: @johnny If you strongly believe in this, why did you voted not much later for Zephird when there was no consensus? You post asking others who to vote -> MG attacks you -> you vote for someone no one else voted. I think you got scared. also you ignored that gonzaw attack Risen too yes he pressured me into voting. I do have a stance and my (lack of) vote didn't change anything. He asked me to make if official and I did. looking back it looks like i got scared but I had my stances and I assume everyone knew that already. So the vote isn't a big deal. I think it's scummy for MG to ask me to vote really. I said in the mean time I'd like people to talk about who's scummier, Zeph or Sentinel, because I was looking at other posts, etc. I also wanted to generate discussion. But it seems you can't understand that. It's not scummy. I didn't ignore that fact. Can you take a look at the post? It contains the reason I asked for a consensus and addresses all of your concerns (I assume). So please, vote for an actual scum target. On April 24 2012 12:53 johnnywup wrote: Gonzaw had a lot of reads and I think we should look into them. Particularly he seemed very convinced that Sentinel was scum. Other than Sentinel he found BroodkingEXE, Daniel, Risen, and Zephirdd scummy as well. I suggest we take a close look at each one of them. Everyone else he found townie to some extent, except he finds BJ worthless, ottox "neutral", but somewhat suspicious (I'm interpreting it that way at least). He also says ghost is "maybe town", and that MG he didn't really look into. Gonzaw suggested to vote to lynch Sentinel today. While I'd prefer a Zephirdd lynch, I'd be willing to support a Sentinel lynch as well if it gains enough popularity. He seemed scummy all game long, but I couldn't really put into words why. Gonzaw made a good post about why, and now that Gonzaw is dead (read: confirmed town), I feel that a Sentinel Lynch would be good. slOosh's filter leads me to believe he thought MidnightGladius to be the most likely scum, with Zephirdd in 2nd place. The zephirdd in 2nd place is based solely on the "Marv: thoughts on MidnightGladius and Zephirdd" post, but it shows he has zephirdd in his mind and wants opinions on him. I hadn't really looked into MG, like Gonzaw, and will be looking at him closer soon. Will report back when I read MG's filter and come to a conclusion. For now, I want to ask who town would like to lynch more: Zephirdd or Sentinel? | ||
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On April 24 2012 10:27 gonzaw wrote: Whatever, Sentinel should be lynched first though.[...] | ||
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On April 26 2012 05:37 MidnightGladius wrote: I'm putting my vote on zeph. He has said nothing recently to make me change my mind about his earlier posting, and johnny's recent posting has made me less suspicious of him. He has stopped sheeping actively, and raises good points. I do want to tell johnny that building on gonzaw's cases is reasonable, but though we know that he was innocent, we have no idea as to whether or not he was actually right. Sentinel is pretty much impossible for me to read, and his latest WIFOM is incredibly frustrating. My intuition on him is apathetic town, but he could easily be scum, and I just can't tell. I don't feel like he's taking things at all seriously, and his unwillingness to push cases beyond Ottoxlol doesn't help. And we still have so many lurkers, and no vig claims to deal with them... BKEXE, any conclusions yet? St.Daniel, now that you're replaced out of SNMMX, any thoughts? We really can't do this without you guys. ##Vote: Zephirdd why did you wait until now to think i'm not scum? I've been making the same cases for a while. I'll take this as "i'm gonna push a noob and see if i can get him lynched" into "I can't get him lynched, better back off". I think MG is scum as well as sentinel and zeph, but there's not enough time to get MG lynched. BUT everyone starting to vote zeph now is very concerning for me. I still think he's scum I just wonder why you didn't vote for him sooner. Scum may be trying to get on board to gain towncred. St.Daniel voting without saying anything is also suspicious. The fact that Ottox and Zeph's votes are so close is concerning to me because scum could easily swing the vote at the last minute to the non-scum (if one of them is in fact town). If anyone tries to change vote last minute, I encourage town to vig them tonight, or lynch them tomorrow, even if they switch their vote onto someone who flips scum. laya, I appreciate your effort on getting MG lynched but I really doubt it's happening. I also would like to know why you said get votes off zeph. | ||
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On April 26 2012 07:48 layabout wrote: Johnny i didn't think zeph was scummy yesterday and i said so. I still don't think he is now. And my number 1 scumread voted for him. MG has been truly apathetic towards today's lynch, he has put in very little effort and offered very little of his own thoughts. He was willing to write a case against Johnny, he gave up on it, and now he has hopped onto the zeph wagon because of reasons that he has apparently had for days that he is not willing to share with us. The lynch is in an hour right? I think MG would be a good lynch but I don't think we have enough time. Isn't there the possibility of bussing? I think it's more than a possibility at this point. So don't let MG voting zeph make you think zeph is town. You have other reasons for thinking zeph is town, I guess. I think it's MG+Sentinel+Zeph+One other on a scum team atm. I like you pushing a read but it's too late right now. On April 26 2012 07:53 Risen wrote: I've read through zephir's filter and he honestly doesn't appear all that scummy to me until his very recent posting, but that could be his desperation coming through. I feel like I should sit with my vote on ottox. He's my read and sentinel has redeemed himself in my eyes today. I really haven't seen anything good from BKExe, BM, or STDaniels that I was hoping for, though. I can see where you're coming from on MG layabout but how much time do we have left before lynch? I still think ottox is scum. You may think he's just a noob but that's not really a defense. this is just false, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=36#705 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=38#741 so, MG+Sentinel+Zeph+Risen? | ||
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On April 26 2012 08:11 Risen wrote: Then you should probably have said you'd vote for him not just say you'd kill him... stop nitpicking. that phrasing doesn't and shouldn't make a difference. | ||
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On April 23 2012 07:51 Risen wrote: That last post combined with, oh I was totally thinking VE was town but layabout you changed my world view bro post is horrible.. There's no way we can get the votes on him today, I'm sorry johnny. I didn't believe you before, and I thought you were scummy. My bad, I dropped the ball. Push this guy tomorrow, push him hard. I'm being too belligerent right now and I need to cool off. I dunno, doesn't seem like you thought he's scum because he's lurking. | ||
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I guess lynch is in 10 minutes. | ||
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I don't know what it means by wins (or loses) means though. | ||
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also, shit. | ||
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he def should die one way or another | ||
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a vig would shoot you because in the morning that information will give us information to lynch the rest of the scum. interestingly you said you'd be lynched tomorrow but you don't think you'll be shot, gf mb? that being said zeph had a town read on risen so maybe he isn't the best lynch tomorrow..though we never got his thoughts on his voteswitch and dont worry about it risen, you don't need to take a break. you just live and learn yeah? | ||
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Also this made me completely question my own reads. I was so sure he was going to flip scum. This is the first game I've been super active with pushing reads and not sheeping as much. I created the case and I feel like I take responsibility for having a townie dead. It's unacceptable by me. Sorry. | ||
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i was just poking fun that you cant vote at night time, since you said "now". jeez o.o | ||
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and sentinel, wtf? visit/shoot/jail them both? You realise jail heals them? from NKs? Such as vig shots? . . . youre suggesting that we both protect and shoot them? | ||
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On April 26 2012 11:12 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: EBWOP: By "shoot a green" I meant "heal a green". I had the vig role in mind for some reason The vig role of trying to shoot greens. yeah ok sentinel. you were thinking of scum kills. | ||
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On April 26 2012 11:14 johnnywup wrote: so how do you suppose we coordinate which power role targets which person? and JK roleblocks, so the tracker cant track if he's being protected by the JK. think things through, what you just said doesn't make sense. I'm asking Sentinel because he said "tracker/jk plan should happen day 3 or maybe even later." | ||
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laya, i think that while that may seem correct it could easily be untrue even if one flips scum. Risen might have been indecisive. In my first game I switched last minute (it lead to lynching a scum in that situation though). If it lead to lynching a town I woulda looked terrible. me looking terrible=/= me being scum, however. It could be an honest mistake that has nothing to do with alignment. It could be a last minute idea by scum, but risen could have dropped the ottox case a long ago in favor of lynching a townie, since the zeph lynch was gaining support. the fact he didn't but switched last second then switched back, rather than "getting a scum read on zeph" earlier tells me it was a townie mistake, because he could have gotten the zeph lynch looking a lot more townie. | ||
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verdict on the voteswitching: not alignment indicative | ||
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i think its probable he just forgot about the tie rule. If you think he realized "oh, my voteswitch and the voteswitch back will change first majority to zeph, but my vote won't change really", then carry on thinking that, but I don't think that that is what happened. | ||
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On April 26 2012 09:00 iGrok wrote:[...] [/b][/blue]It is now night 2, send in actions to iGrok before the next deadline which is in 24 hours from now. 24 hrs ago, so it should be now | ||
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Ottox, Risen, MG, Sentinel are my best guesses for the scum team. ##vote MidnightGladius | ||
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On April 27 2012 10:55 Bill Murray wrote: I've had an important day in real life. Sorry I haven't been as active as I'd like. If I do not make it into tomorrow, I would like to out my townreads: Layabout Mattchew Mementoss Janaan Marvelosity Paqman Scum: Ottoxlul St.Daniel JohnnyWup trying to get towncred? | ||
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On April 28 2012 03:00 BroodKingEXE wrote: OMG. St. Daniels voted for Zeph without posting in this thread or using reasoning. If he was town he would have provided some sort of reason or even a vote in the thread. ##Vote: St. Daniels yeah we know but his flip isn't going to help us catch other scum On April 28 2012 03:36 Risen wrote: I agree completely. Which is why ##vote MidnightGladius jk, back from classes. Gimme a while since I'm playing eve atm what do you mean jk? you don't think mg is scum? also neither of you posted your vote in the voting thread. . . | ||
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On April 28 2012 00:56 ghost_403 wrote: Hey guys, let's lynch Ottoxlol. ##vote ottoxlol | ||
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no, i won't let a sheepy vote go through without sufficient argument for me | ||
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I'm leaning on the scummy side for ottox but I don't feel strongly enough in his scumminess to give me confidence in his lynch. | ||
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On April 28 2012 05:40 BroodKingEXE wrote: @johnny If we lynch him noe we have a 50% chance of lynching a goon or GF. I'd rather we take the chance than lynch another townie. Great if it he is a goon as they lose a KP, if not we take out a GF which is fine too. In terms of information, people having been defending and accusing him why dont we look at that? wat? | ||
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On April 28 2012 07:30 ghost_403 wrote: @marv: I clearly state there are two positions. Either Risen is bad/emotional/whatever, or Risen is scum. I'm saying the second one of those is the better conclusion. hows it a better conclusion though? what makes you think thats more likely? i don't want opinions i want quotes that say that he did that on purpose | ||
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indecisiveness? fear? theres quite a few reasons a town risen would do what he did. just so you know, it seems to be that risen thought the lynch would go back to ottox. so what's the point of your argument? | ||
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looking on ottox's filter....and yeah he seems scummy now. + Show Spoiler + On April 24 2012 16:57 Ottoxlol wrote: I don't get the sloosh kill btw, he contributed scarce, voted on VE. If not lynched he would have been pressured a lot today. Risen was the only one they both suspected to be scum, since sloosh kill has no other explanation then defending Risen I think he is town. he's criticizing scum for a kill (lol?).. and the other part of the post i can't get my head around. They both suspected risen to be scum, so risen is town? another thing: he avoids a lot of accusations and has a lot of useless posts (if not all), and he votes me by sheeping MG then unvotes me for this reason: if you can call that a reason. I "defend" him, so he gets off my back. then "has to vote zeph" while soft defending risen On April 26 2012 07:25 Ottoxlol wrote: I have to ##vote Zephirdd The Risen case is weak in my opinion, I can understand that points 1 and 4 can be suspicious but 2-3 doesnt seem scummy to me. He tried to defend VE, but not with the best tools, he tried to defend himself but not with the best tools. theres an awful lot of soft defending risen UNTIL....RIGHT BEFORE NIGHT ENDS?! On April 26 2012 08:52 Ottoxlol wrote: So its seems like ill get lynched, ill post my thoughts MG + Risen are most likely scum. Zeph Sent Mementoss laya are my other candidates. Zeph had some very strange logic and posts Sent is getting better, but the VE lynch is still there. Mementoss said his problem with me that i did not scumhunt at all, I posted the case on VE d1, d2 I tried to be helpful, posted case, took a stance, he did not lift his vote contrary to his post. laya stated that i am most likely town, zeph is maybe then he voted me for the kill. in that same post, he says MG IS MOST LIKELY SCUM! Remember who he sheeped and voted me because of it? MG! WOW! 2 PEOPLE HE SEEMED TO THINK WAS TOWN ENDED UP IN HIS SCUM LIST RIGHT BEFORE DEADLINE! And I mean he was soft defending risen a LOT. in fact, a little more than an hour before that he posted: On April 26 2012 07:25 Ottoxlol wrote: I have to ##vote Zephirdd The Risen case is weak in my opinion, I can understand that points 1 and 4 can be suspicious but 2-3 doesnt seem scummy to me. He tried to defend VE, but not with the best tools, he tried to defend himself but not with the best tools. But wait, in an hour he says that MG and Risen are most likely scum? .. so yeah, I think ottox is scum now. I want to note: NONE OF THIS is based on the vote/unvote from risen. But it does incriminate Risen and MG as possible scum buddies. | ||
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The case risen makes against ottox is good the first time i read it. Re-reading it, it's a lot of empty text with a lot of "commentary" of what ottox is posting...not many actual points. The points he does make are mostly on small points. The big points he does make are good though, imo. But that's only like 10% of the actual post. I do find it odd it took him 33 pages to have a one sentence blurb, then on page 62 he makes a case on him. With no mention of ottox in between. NONE. | ||
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Thoughts? | ||
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Also paqman you're not really helping either. Last time you posted anything more than ~3 sentences was about 2 days ago, with the exception o your latest post (saying you're not helpful by not helping) and this: On April 28 2012 07:54 PaqMan wrote: This. I went through Mementoss's posts to see if he dropped any hints, but I couldn't find anything definite. MT was really wanting to lynch Ottox but I didn't catch him saying that he was totally sure ottox was scum or not. Right now Ottox is a good lynch but we still have more than a day and plenty other options that we need to look at. If votes start piling up on one person pay attention to everyone's reasons. We're one away from lylo, Town needs to take a close look at everything and everyone. which just states the obvious in the second paragraph and the first paragraph is just restating a quote. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046&user=195329 his town meta and scum meta look very similar, stop trying to put them on the wrong track mattchew. | ||
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I'm not saying he's not scummy, he is, but hows he any more scummy than St,Daniel, etc? | ||
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On April 29 2012 03:38 marvellosity wrote: Is town absolutely set on Ottoxlol today? Or are Risen/MG/anyone else still a possibility? It seems like we've not discussed MG at all today despite him being basically the dead layabout's strongest read for some time. Is everyone so sure ottoxlol is scum ahead of MG? PERSONALLY I'd like a MG lynch more but it doesn't look like it's going to happen :X | ||
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I'm on the same boat as you, I'm not confident in myself right now, I pushed zeph hard too. | ||
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On April 29 2012 10:14 PaqMan wrote: We should have lynched Ottox. MG was going to be modkilled anyways so our lynch was wasted. Relying on modkills to do your work for you isn't very sportsmanlike imoimo good to see a goon gone though. i dunno what MG was up to today, but it certainly didn't help. sucks we lost another townie T_T if tracker, track ottox. if vig, shoot ottox. if JK, jail ottox. imoimo, at least. if you feel against it, then don't but I feel like ottox is a threat to the town at this point. | ||
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Yeah, totally go for towniest read, JK, if existent. | ||
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On April 29 2012 21:32 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Still, there's also the fact that in the end, Mafia has a 7/8 chance of successfully shooting someone. So to max out the odds they can go for someone who isn't being suspected at the moment, or just shoot an active player. Personally, I see many players in this game who are influential and leading the discussion. JK can't jail them all. 1/3 seems like better odds than 1/8. yeah, ok, but that only makes sense if we know who the mafia are. we can have suspicions, but it won't be 1/3 vs 1/8 | ||
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first off: do you have proof sentinel? I believe you but I'd like proof just in case Ottox is confirmed Not Goon from sentinels. I think we should aim for goons before GFs, even if we have confirmed scum. GFs are useless at this stage for scum, we don't have a vig so they don't have any real powers. We need to aim for the KP before we kill the GFs, imo. So if anyone has any idea who the Goon is, we should lynch that person. | ||
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since ottox is not a goon, we shouldn't kill him today. IMO at least. | ||
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On April 30 2012 09:58 Mattchew wrote: im just saying this is making you look like you dont want to lynch scum I want to lynch scum. But look for other scum other than ottox because if he dies than scum still has the KP. We want to reduce the KP to 0. If we do that it's smooth sailing. Do you not understand what I'm saying? | ||
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also as for who i want to die instead I'm not sure. but this post bothered me while looking through ghosts filter: On April 24 2012 11:26 ghost_403 wrote: Marv. Please flip town. Plzplzplzplzplzplz. Time to catch up on the thread. brb FYI, my plan for catching up on the thread means reading to everything past the night post, then returning through the events of Day 1. Probably going to take a while, but I'm not going to bed until I post something constructive. I'm a bawse like that. marv, please flip town? wtf Anyways, I'm gonna be reading up filters and making my decision. | ||
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Then theres Ghost_403. Verdict: Godfather On April 22 2012 10:02 ghost_403 wrote: Ghost's response to sloosh's case on VE. + Show Spoiler + You guys are really cutting into my internet spaceships time.+ Show Spoiler + Point 1) I totally agree with sloosh's point here. VE's idea that a JK would work against a claimed vig is just stupid, and one of the first things he said that made me think that he was scum. Point 2) I thought his scumslip argument was stupid. Said that already. Point 3) Yeah, I agree with that. VE avoided discussing most of his counterarguments. Point 4) I agree with this. Well, I'm sold. I'm happy with a VE lynch. VE today, Sentinel tomorrow? BONUS: Hey! Sentinel decided to join us! On April 23 2012 01:28 ghost_403 wrote: I think a BM lynch is a terrible idea (vig shout would be fine though). I don't think I've ever seen a case where a ninja vote was due to someone being scum. There's too much risk and no reward for scum in this situation. I think he's just insane. I really don't like the fact that Sentinel immediately jumped on the lynch BM bandwagon. Trying to lynch insane players is scummy in my book. Same goes for you Mattchew. Why would scum even try to ninja vote? It makes way more sense to sheep instead. No one would have thought twice if BM had shown up in thread and said "lol VE scum ##vote VE". VE's claim is bad. He's doing the same thing that he did in TLM LI in claiming when there's no reason to. I can't imagine scum VE doing the same thing twice, but now we're into WIFOM territory. In addition, JK is the only nonconfirmable role in the game. A vig shot shows up in the day post, and a tracker can confirm where someone went that night. It only makes sense that scum VE would claim JK. I've said I think BM is scum. So this stuff makes perfect sense. Soft defending his scum mate, and attacking townies (who we now know are indeed townies) then we have: On April 23 2012 07:03 ghost_403 wrote: @johnnywup: I have no idea why you thought a few hours before the lynch was a good time to bring forward another lynch candidate. Seriously? I'm not really seeing why Risen is scum. Sure, he's loud, obnoxious and belligerent, but that doesn't say anything about his alignment. I'm still pretty happy with a VE lynch. I thought he was scum before he claimed, and I don't buy his claim. Even if his claim is true, he's functioning in an anti-town manner. Also, I'm surprised that no one has brought up the point that he's pretty much ragequit. Marvellosity is still posting nothing of content. I'd be down with that lynch. and 12 minutes later... On April 23 2012 07:15 ghost_403 wrote: BlazingJitsu, you down with a Risen lynch? then we have: On April 24 2012 11:26 ghost_403 wrote: Marv. Please flip town. Plzplzplzplzplzplz. Time to catch up on the thread. brb FYI, my plan for catching up on the thread means reading to everything past the night post, then returning through the events of Day 1. Probably going to take a while, but I'm not going to bed until I post something constructive. I'm a bawse like that. which I don't even understand. Why would you say "marv please flip town" unless you're scum and meant to say it in mafia qt? then he posts a case on sentinel (who we now know is town) On April 24 2012 21:15 ghost_403 wrote:+ Show Spoiler + which is actually a really really bad case, points out small things but no big picture scummy things. I'll admit I thought Sentinel was scum, but ghost is really grasping at straws with this case.Another thing that I was going to note last night was the fact that Sentinel has been lurking like a bawse through this whole game. If you take a look at what he wrote last night, he more or less claimed that he was onboard the VE lynch, and that's it. Sentinel is afraid of posting in this thread, because he's afraid he'll do something to out his scumbuddies. I thought he was scum yesterday, our townie friend sloosh thought he was scum before Sentinel killed him, and I think we should be lynching him today. I'm guessing that he rolled goon, which is why he's so afraid to get caught. Scum KP should drop to 1 after we lynch Sentinel. Let's look at Sentinel's posts from last night! Poast 1 "I was totally onboard for the VE lynch before VE was". Who cares? What does this add to the thread? How does this help us hunt scum? MG's idea that the scum voted to lynch VE before the townies is flawed to begin with, and now he somehow wants more credit for it? On April 24 2012 09:05 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Wait... how the hell do you brand Risen green because of "town meta"? I think his aggressive-defensive bipolarity kinda ruined that aspect. If anything makes him green is that he backed VE till the end. Scum love making townie reads, because it saves them the trouble of scum hunting. You have nothing to say about the fact that Mattchew thinks you're scum? I'd be pissed if I ended up red on that list. On April 24 2012 09:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm in Star Battle so I won't make the deadline. I'll probably post some once I'm done, closer to 14:00 GMT (+00:00) "I'm going to give myself an excuse not to post so I can avoid scumslipping." On April 24 2012 10:41 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Fuck, have to push back my reply to tomorrow early morning. See above. On April 24 2012 10:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm posting exactly seven hours from now. I think I'll make it. See above. There's no reason for a townie to have this little content in the game. One post with a decent thought is all I ask for. Just one. One post where I can look back and agree or disagree with what you have to say. Instead, this. Nothing of content. The lack of content from Sentinel is due to the fact that's he's terrified of being caught. That's 'cause Sentinel rolled scum. ##vote [UoN]Sentinel then ghost starts to get on the ottox train after BJ makes a long post about him: On April 24 2012 21:05 ghost_403 wrote: Haha, chainsaw defense. I've been giving Ottoxlol a noob pass since Day 1, but perhaps BJ is right. I'd be down with a Ottoxlol lynch. The other thing that I don't like about Ottoxlol is the fact that he's not hunting scum at all. If you take a look through his filter, his suggestions for lynches are all lurkers. There's 50 pages in this thread, and he can't find any scum who are posting? I assumed it was due to the fact that he's a newb, but newbs roll scum too. @ottoxlol: If you don't want me to try and get you lynched today, start hunting some scum. You want to suggest someone who isn't lurking and/or insane? Which is taking a "I think you're a newb" to a "I think you're scum and I'm gonna lynch you unless you do something productive" standpoint. Huge change. This is because of BJs case but I feel like this was a perfect opportunity for ghost to get some "town cred". Then he exaggerates risens voteswitch as "claiming scum". Then of course ghost goes hardcore down on lynching ottox, which I still think is to gain towncred by lynching a scum. I still think ottox is scum but I don't think that. Then there's ottox. There's been tons of cases against Ottox so I don't feel like I need to repeat things. I think Ottox is a Godfather. Oh, by the way, once Ottox flips scum, he left a trail to lead Ghost to "being town". On April 30 2012 09:30 Ottoxlol wrote: Hey guys, let's lynch Ghost_403. ##vote Ghost_403 This post just says "when i die at least my scum mate will look a lot more townie". GG | ||
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I'm the only one voting someone besides ottox (except for ottox voting ghost) so I feel this is a scum bandwagon or something. Just a feeling but its uneasing :\ | ||
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Also Ghost's response was very good and he's leaning greener for me. On May 02 2012 07:41 Ottoxlol wrote: Sorry, I cant vote for scum right now. Only town you claiming scum? | ||
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Ok, why don't we just lynch BM, if you think BM is scum too? Why does ottox have to be today? We have 50 minutes left and I think we can change the lynch to BM in that time. I don't like how many votes are on ottox despite me thinking he's scum, like I said, which makes me like a BM lynch more. I get that we'll still be talking about ottox tomorrow but he's not a goon so even if we do lynch him we're at the same place tomorrow. (-1 townie, -1scum, unless Sentinel JK's correctly, but he'll most likely be killed anyways). If we lynch the Goon we're in a good position. If we lynch the GF we're in about the same position. | ||
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On May 02 2012 00:50 Janaan wrote: At this point, I still think we probably need to deal with Ottox. We do know that he isn't the goon, but we don't have conclusive evidence of who IS the goon either. I'll be voting for Ottox today. And BKEXE is just waiting around to vote at last minute (he's still here, he just posted, but hasn't voted) | ||
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missed that, thanks. :\ | ||
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Risen, why wait to the end of the night if you're sure you're gonna survive this lynch anyways, since you're 100% sure BK is goon? Scum would have to choose between a confirmed (from my viewpoint, you said you disagree though) townie and someone with a big read tonight. | ||
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On May 02 2012 08:31 Risen wrote: I'm also nearly 100% certain that ottox is town now... we fucked up guys. On May 02 2012 08:33 Risen wrote: Ottox is either GF or scum. The more I look at it the more I'm convinced BM is GF and ottox is just really, really horrible Yeah ok risen. | ||
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On May 02 2012 08:34 Risen wrote: EBWOP: I meant GF or townie or our last blue vig | ||
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whats wifom about this at all paqman? | ||
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ottox you claim green? | ||
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mattchew you're looking more scummy in my eyes by saying that kind of shit. | ||
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BKEXE gets modkilled, so this puts Risen's theory to the test. | ||
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On May 01 2012 10:37 Bill Murray wrote: probably the same reason St.Daniel got a break | ||
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On May 02 2012 09:17 PaqMan wrote: Looks like everyone was wrong. I don't think I was really wrong. I thought it was going to be a mislynch and it was. I urge town to not be fucking sheep and actually fucking think for themselves. This isn't trying to be insulting but if you don't think for yourself town WILL lose. Scum is in control of town right now and if you don't think for yourself we will mislynch. BM is still scum IMO. Ghost posted a good defense so I'll look back into him, unsure if he's truthful or not. as for everyone else... Mattchew's recent posting has been lackluster. Acting like he already won (as scum)? Janaan needs to post more. It's hard to read Janaan. Risen had no reason to say he thought BKEXE would flip goon if he was scum. So that's a + on the townie side, but that's not really enough to say much about Risen. I don't like his posting generally but that's true with all his games. Paqman has been sliding by everyones radar, and I'll have to look into him a bunch. Sent is confirmed town. | ||
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On May 02 2012 09:04 johnnywup wrote: Ok, here's your test risen. Tell us how you're certain now because if you're correct there's no way for you to get killed tonight. We're sure he's going to die so if you tell us why and you're correct then you're almost certainly a confirmed townie and you can help figure out whos scum and lead us to a victory. If not, then fuck us. I did (somewhat) explain. It's half that half gut feeling. | ||
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On May 02 2012 08:55 johnnywup wrote: The bandwagon came too early. Too many people on it with little opposition. I don't like that. We're falling into scums hands imo. I'm not confident in him being scum anymore either. I don't want a mislynch and it's looking very likely that's whats going to happen. | ||
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You're soft pushing me as scum and that won't do. You're pushing me for not voting for a townie. How ridiculous is that? | ||
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Here's a bunch of funny quotes from BM, to help break the tension! + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2012 16:32 Bill Murray wrote: Oh, and Mattchew, the reason I play is because I love the game Just because I like to coast by D1 sometimes doesn't mean I'm not going to be posting more on subsequent days. We're in the early phase. There is not a single game where I drastically help the town that I'm not wagonned d1, after all scum find me an easy mislynch. You haven't drastically helped town. On April 24 2012 06:48 Bill Murray wrote: adding marvellosity to my townreads on my power point with mattchew and that guy who asked to vig me im going to have something for you guys tomorrow in terms of a dedicated post see you all then What a great reason to add someone as a townie to your spreadsheet! How? On April 25 2012 09:07 Bill Murray wrote: I'm happy lynching Ottox tomorrow. I have been really busy today, and I'm about 30 pages behind to be honest. Excuses On April 25 2012 09:08 Bill Murray wrote: How have I not been scumhunting, Johnny? Read my iso. Read it, didn't see any scumhunting On April 27 2012 10:55 Bill Murray wrote: I've had an important day in real life. Sorry I haven't been as active as I'd like. If I do not make it into tomorrow, I would like to out my townreads: Layabout Mattchew Mementoss Janaan Marvelosity Paqman Scum: Ottoxlul St.Daniel JohnnyWup Wow, thanks for your cases on such reads! Gee, thanks for your help! On April 30 2012 11:28 Bill Murray wrote: this town... really? I guess I can't complain, considering what I've been doing all game. You don't say? On May 02 2012 07:13 Bill Murray wrote: That's not true WHATSOEVER, and it a blatant misrepresentation of what is going on. If you weren't trolling so much this game, and obv town, I would lynch you over policy for tunneling. Ask me about anything that has happened this game, Matt ok this post i actually have something to say about. He says mattchew is obv town. I've actually been seeing Matt as a bit redder lately with his lackluster posting. Since I think we should lynch BM tomorrow, when(/if, but im sure BMs scum) BM flips scum, we should look back at Mattchew. On May 02 2012 07:23 Bill Murray wrote: I'm going to kill Risen tonight, btw I'm vig On May 02 2012 07:32 Bill Murray wrote: lol jk im green mattchew is scum for not replying to me claiming vig lol what On May 02 2012 07:40 Bill Murray wrote: OTTOXLOL COME JOIN ME ON THIS WAGON oops caps you can change sign whats the point of saying oops caps? Unrelated to scumhunting but cmon BM | ||
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On May 02 2012 09:27 Risen wrote: Just a note. BK isn't the only reason I thought Sent was lying. Will post my other reasoning right before day post... You didn't post reasoning before day post. What gives? | ||
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On May 01 2012 07:57 Mattchew wrote: ottox for sure, risen and brood/BM this post made no sense to me seeing as it was right after day 4 began. This should be where you're pushing risen hardcore. But you're not. Which doesn't make sense. I need to think things through for a while. | ||
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On April 30 2012 09:24 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Now that's interesting. Jailkeeper here. I jailed Otto, because, as I said, it felt more likely I could stop the shot. Although I still think Otto is red, he is not a goon, and as you can see, one of ours died last night. What do we do now? On April 30 2012 09:28 Mattchew wrote: We lynch scum. ##vote ottoxlol 4 minutes later, Mattchew shows no sign of not believing. He responds as if he was unsurprised even. The fact of the matter is that he votes OTTOX right after the day begins. If you have a confirmed scum then you fucking vote him. I don't give a shit if you think he's connected to someone else. You lynch a 100% confirmed scum 100% of the time no matter what. And Matt didn't do that. Not to mention that Sentinels pre-day post posting made way more sense with the claim than yours. They make sense leading up to his jailing of Ottox. On April 27 2012 02:45 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Layabout's post w/ the timeframe seems to clear everything up for me. I still believe Monsieur Otto is scum, so I'll have an easy time believing all 3 of them are mafias. I could see some logic behind Brood being a townie and deliberately pressed for time, but unlikely. The question is, if Otto is town, what would be the motives of Brood and Risen? I don't see any clear ones for now, so I'll go about believing Otto is scum. On April 27 2012 02:46 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Also, concering saving Otto, perhaps one of the two is GF and they're saving Otto who is a goon and has KP? but the most telling thing IMO is the moment that Mattchew says that he's not sure if Sentinel is fakeclaiming he starts pushing (if you can even call it that) Risen. Up until that point he mentioned Risen as a possible scum but didn't push. This leads me to believe that this is the time that Matt came up with his fake claim. This, not so coincidentally, is the time when I started feeling matt wasn't contributing and was acting scummy... But let the posts do the talking. On May 02 2012 08:28 Mattchew wrote: what if sent is fake claiming and the real blue is just waiting for the right opportunity. I believe sent but idk On May 02 2012 08:30 Mattchew wrote: meh fuck it.. sent you need to jail BM and we need to lynch Ottox. We are doing all the right things to come back from this travesty of a game On May 02 2012 08:35 Mattchew wrote: lol @ risen trying to confuse the thread On May 02 2012 08:40 Mattchew wrote: if you dont pay attention to risen... you wont pay attention to scum On May 02 2012 08:45 Mattchew wrote: johnny i am being productive... i am telling you not to listen to scum On May 02 2012 08:48 Mattchew wrote: Risen is trying to get us off his scum teammate On May 02 2012 09:05 Mattchew wrote: lol johnny risen is scum On May 02 2012 09:07 Mattchew wrote: ill post more at the end of the night On May 02 2012 10:26 Mattchew wrote: sent should jail BM and we should lynch BM tomorrow that is all goodnight | ||
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##unvote ##vote mattchew | ||
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The last minute switch didn't confirm shit and you know it. On April 27 2012 01:03 Mattchew wrote: was distracted by the pretty colors. Basically I was gonna argue that his correlations are not well founded. Remember Risen didn't save Ottox from a lynch, he simply made it a tie favoring zeph. His vote didn't matter in the least, which is why it makes almost no sense for him as scum to switch like he did. Ottox on the other hand can easily still be scum but I don't think it has anything to do with how Risen acted/voted | ||
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On May 03 2012 10:45 Mattchew wrote: ? I voted Ottox, cause Risen being scum confirmed him to me. This is not illogical at all seeing the last minute vote switch of day 2. you JUST said that you thought that risen being scum confirmed ottox to you because of the switch | ||
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this post is assuming your claim is true. maybe i am rushing my posts. the point is there was 0 reason to not claim and 0 reason to lynch someone who wasnt confirmed scum absolutely 0. i can't think of a single reason why you wouldn't claim. you let town sheep a confirmed scum and theres no way a town would let that happen. If a confirmed scum is pushing someone you thought was scum, do you think somethings suspicious there? maybe? it makes no sense. another thing to address is the timing of your claim. As scum, it makes perfect sense really. If you let town sheep a jk because they successfully blocked a shot, then you lose your kp. Risking losing a GF to lynch the JK in order to mislynch and keep your KP makes perfect sense. It was a big risk and it didn't pay off. At the very least, if you failed, you'd be lynched and your Goon wouldn't be, so you'd have a KP for at least tonight. I'd be willing to bet you're a GF and BM is the last Goon. ##unvote ##vote Bill Murray | ||
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On May 03 2012 11:23 Mattchew wrote: Actually as scum, the timing of my claim would probably make more sense if I were to post it closer towards the end of the day so that people don't have as much time to read my filter, discuss whether or not its true and discuss the 3rd scum option. A question I have for you, is why are you so quick to believe Sent's claim with basically no argument, even though ottox posted a completely logical reason for you not to believe him? I'll actually look into ottox's argument, i didn't really put much thought into it. as for the first part, claiming at the end of the day would make you look waaaaaay scummier, and we'd end up lynching a "town". anyways, if we mislynch today, we're at lylo, 5v3 yes? that means that lynching BM is the best course of action for both of your claims, believe it or not. Let me explain. If BM flips goon, then we lynch you, as it confirms Sent as a Jailkeeper and you as a liar. This means we get 2 scum without losing without fail. We won't be at lylo tomorrow in this situation. If BM flips town, we lynch Risen and Sentinel, as it confirms Matt as a vig and Sent as a liar. This means we also get 2 scum without losing without fail. We will be at lylo tomorrow, but that doesn't really matter since we get 2 scum either and it'll be favorable for town from there. If BM flips GF, we act the same as if he flipped town, except we catch all 3 scum without fail. So there we have it. Any objections to this plan? | ||
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If BM flips town, its 6v3, then 5v3 after night kill. then we get a free scum in risen and sent, so its 5v2 then 4v2 after NK, then 4v1 and 3v1 after that NK (assuming the 3rd scum is the goon), which should be good enough to find the scum. if BM flips goon its 7v2, no NKs available. then next day we lynch matt so its 7v1, which should be unlosable for town. if BM flips GF, its 7v2, then after NK its 6v2, then we lynch sent for lying about being jk so its 6v1 (5v1 after NK assuming 3rd scum is goon) All 3 situations are incredibly favored for town. | ||
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This will be really risky though, as everyone has to be f5ing the thread hardcore in order to get their votes in first. I understand if town feels like this is too much of a risk and we don't go through with it, but if we do it right we should win 100% if BM flips scum we should be able to win ezpz however. | ||
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On May 03 2012 12:07 Mattchew wrote: 2 more things. if/when BM flips town, if we didn't lose right there and then, we don't know the 3rd scum member, only sent/risen. You seem to be trying to take the super lazy and easy way out of this game. you also seem to be trying to sell the easy win to everyone else. your posting has earned my FOS as the third scum We will know the 3rd Scum member, because in order for scum to get a lynch on a townie, they have to coordinate and mass lynch a townie, which will go against the lynch of the confirmed scum based on BMs flip. We won't have to look, they'll reveal themselves to us. On May 03 2012 12:07 PaqMan wrote: So johnny you want to lynch Mattchew if BM flips scum? If BM flips goon we lynch mattchew, if BM flips gf we lynch sent. Sent is only confirmed Jailer if BM flips Goon. | ||
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On May 03 2012 12:17 PaqMan wrote: What if BM flips goon, Sentinel fake-claimed, and Mattchew was telling the truth? I think it's possible that BM withheld his kp to support Sentinel by giving him more town cred in case the real blue (Mattchew) claims. it's possible but its a waste of a KP for scum and it doesn't instantly make sent scum if his "jail" didn't stop a shot. if sent fake claimed then scum should have still shot, because it makes BM look like not a goon and he doesn't get lynched, while still using his KP. This makes BM being goon more likely and sent telling the truth more likely. The other possibility is that BM is town and Sent is scum, which is the only real situation where we have to do the insta-vote after day post. | ||
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On May 03 2012 11:06 johnnywup wrote: yeah you're right, none of your posts make sense as town. this post is assuming your claim is true. maybe i am rushing my posts. the point is there was 0 reason to not claim and 0 reason to lynch someone who wasnt confirmed scum absolutely 0. i can't think of a single reason why you wouldn't claim. you let town sheep a confirmed scum and theres no way a town would let that happen. If a confirmed scum is pushing someone you thought was scum, do you think somethings suspicious there? maybe? it makes no sense. another thing to address is the timing of your claim. As scum, it makes perfect sense really. If you let town sheep a jk because they successfully blocked a shot, then you lose your kp. Risking losing a GF to lynch the JK in order to mislynch and keep your KP makes perfect sense. It was a big risk and it didn't pay off. At the very least, if you failed, you'd be lynched and your Goon wouldn't be, so you'd have a KP for at least tonight. I'd be willing to bet you're a GF and BM is the last Goon. ##unvote ##vote Bill Murray and to add to this, Matt thought that in the case of a tie, Scum wins. So, if he could possibly get a mislynch today, then scum (he thought) would win. If they lynch him, hey hes the GF so goon still gets to kill, so then its its still lylo, and Scum has ANOTHER shot to cause a mislynch. If we correctly lynch again, they STILL only need a mislynch. So scum has (he thought) 3 shots if scum mislynched today. So yeah, I'm pretty sure Matt is a GF and BM is a Goon. | ||
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On May 03 2012 12:40 Mattchew wrote: johnny, have you ever played a game where if # of scum = # of town scum didn't win? no, but i've never played a game where #of scum= #of town either and I love how you completely ignore Sentinel in all of your reasoning. i can't find reasons elsewhere? I'll look into that just for you though. by voting BM you are saying you believe Sent and are willing the bet the entire game on a scum read on the craziest player in the game. Hm, yeah I would. But it's not completely up to me, others have to agree. I noticed that there hasn't been a big bandwagon to lynch BM right as the day started, which makes me feel like BM is indeed scum. Let's call it the same gut feeling that told me ottox was town Do you think that I would have pushed BM's lynch (and push away from a VE lynch) as hard as I did day 1 if he was my teammate? Yes, because he's BM, and he's been able to get away with shit "just because he's BM", as you so eloquently put it at the beginning of the game (funny how that statement can hurt you later on huh?). So you thought he wouldn't get lynched for the same reasons you said that we should policy lynch him for. You are literally taking the laziest way out with this situation It's also the smartest, IMO. if there's facts that people can find and present that heavily incriminate either you or sent, I'd definitely reconsider. But since no one wants to, I think this is the best way to get the best chances of killing the scum. 3/8 players left are scum. So if we throw a dart at a name we still have a decent chance of hitting scum. Killing someone I have a case against and have actively thought is scum is just a plus. answers in green | ||
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On May 03 2012 12:59 Mattchew wrote: 1.How about the fact that sent says he didn't jail anyone night 1 because he had no one else that makes sense for him to fake claim jailing 2.Most people hadn't posted before I claimed. This means nothing. 3.I fail to see how this hurts me now. Because I wanted to lynch and actively pushed to lynch the person you are now trying to lynch, that makes me scummy? You don't think my pushing of Bill Murray was genuine? 1.I'll let you in on a secret: In the I'm a cop you idiot mafia I accidentally healed someone who wasn't in the game because I was busy, as a doctor. On day 1. So it could happen. 2. Fair enough. 3.The comment was snide. I wasn't serious about it hurting you. I just thought it was cool using your own words against you in a way. And I'm actually not sure if your pushing is genuine. It looks genuine to me but fuck ._. @_@ TBH I'm just as confused as anyone. I have a scum read on BM and I'm pushing it, that's all I really know. Your claim seemed scummy to me so I thought you're scum but now I'm just not sure. I feel BM is scum and that's the one thing I do know. If BM is town we still have a small chance based on my plan. I feel like this is our last chance. I swear BM has to be scum, if he's not I don't even fucking know man. Pre-edit: I guess we don't have a small chance if BM flips town. I'm gonna really think things through now. | ||
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On May 03 2012 13:10 Mattchew wrote: lol and risen de-lurks to pre-amble iGrok's mod note... looks like scum got nervous their win con wasn't gonna be reached by lynching BM and yelled at iGrok to post Johnny you realize you are voting with this scum (risen) right? if bm flips goon that makes risen green imo. but i'm gonna have to look through a lot of things before I come to a final decision, since 3:3 is auto scum win i'm gonna have to really think about this. | ||
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On May 03 2012 13:13 Mattchew wrote: basically johnny and paq, you guys have to stop being lazy and really think this decision ALL THE WAY THROUGH, analyzing every party involved I'm aware of that now. I thought we could win based on a good plan but I didn't do the math right or w/e. I was being lazy but I thought we had a good chance of winning if we could execute my plan, which I know now is flawed. | ||
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On May 02 2012 09:11 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: If BKEXE is by some chance goon and maybe iGrok didn't count my thing or whatever, he dies and town wins. If BKEXE is not, then I'm right (as I usually am) and we're down either a bad player or (more likely) one scum. Risen is definitely scum, I don't know where BM fits into this but I'd drop him down to #8 in that chart of mine, especially since he has absolutely no evidence I'm not JK. I claimed JK because even if Otto does get lynched, we need to find the goon. Also, when marv died he was talking about me possibly being scum. I wouldn't want to be in purgatory. I want to be regarded as townie so that my reasoning is properly counted. So I claimed. And now all is clear. Now, my dear friend Risen, I have one last question for you. Are you the servant, or are you the master? was aware BKEXE would not flip goon :o On May 02 2012 09:17 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: BM-Risen-Mystery third member... I'm running out of options here. 8 of us left, 3 scum. 7 minimum left by daylight gives us one last day. Shit. All my plans banked on Otto being scum. I can't believe I missed this. now matt and sent...how is it both of you think risen is scum? I'm guessing one is a bus and one is a genuine thinking Risen is scum. The other possibility is that Risen is town and the scum of the two is misleading town into mislynching a townie and the townie of the two has a bad read. I'd like to think the townie has a good read, so it's looking possible that Risen is scum, whether you believe Sent or Matt is telling the truth. | ||
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On May 03 2012 13:34 PaqMan wrote: I don't understand how or why, as scum, Sentinel could/would have made the JAIK breadcrumb on D1. Gives you something to claim later as scum if you need to claim for whatever plan scum has. On May 03 2012 13:35 Risen wrote: I quit. What? | ||
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##vote Risen I think we have the best chance of hitting scum in risen, regardless of who's telling the truth between sent and matt. also his "I quit" doesn't help his cause. | ||
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On May 03 2012 09:54 Bill Murray wrote: Who did you Jail last night, Sentinel? I don't believe Mattchew Let's review the facts here: Mattchew claims Vig (and says that BM is town, risen+sent is scum) Sent claims JK (and says BM is goon, Sent is scum) BM doesn't believe the guy that's calling him town Let's assume BM is town here, Matt is Scum: He thinks Matt is trying to give him towncred so he can help get a lynch on some other townie or something like that. (I'd like confirmation from BM here) Let's assume BM is town here, Matt is Vig: Same as above, but Mattchew is trying to lynch a scum instead Let's assume BM is scum here, Matt is town: Doesn't make Sense Let's assume BM is scum here, Matt is Vig: Doesn't make Sense. Thoughts? I don't like thinking about it but BM might actually just be a bad townie. I'm really fucking confused. | ||
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On April 27 2012 18:46 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Risen. Brood. Otto. I want one of them to die today. Preferably Ottoxlol since they were protecting him, he has the reddest read of the three, and having one less goon in the game would surely be nice. ##Vote: Ottoxlol Brood + otto were town. when marv was alive: On April 28 2012 10:06 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I took MG's post to be kinda observing, as if a chessmaster pulled some sort of elaborate trap on his opponent, then re-emerged in the audience with a fake moustache to say "That guy fell into a really elaborate trap!" Except it's not that elaborate. And the fake moustache doesn't seem to be working. @marv's case on risen I really think it was a bus to try and distance himself from Ottoxlol and decided to come back to his rescue. Back in Werewolves (was it?) I was scum, and our original plan between the 3 of us was to take polar opposite viewpoints so in case one of us went down it wouldn't lead back to the other two, in case immediately. I still can't explain though, why he would come to Otto's rescue if both were scum. This is fishy. Although now he's voting on his buddy to make amends? Or are they all turning on each other so we don't hit all 4 of them? marv distancing himself from ottox. BOTH WERE TOWN. also marv thought sent was scum, and that night marv died. Fuckfuckfuckfuck. Sorry Matt. You're right, I should have looked through Sent's filter. He's listing Risen with Otto+Marv+BKEXE, who were all town. ##unvote Risen And so I'm finding myself believing mattchew now. Fuck. I'm so confused. Note: I know I'm flipflopping a lot but that's because I'm unsure of my opinions and I'm finding new facts that make me think otherwise my old opinions, etc. I'm not trying to follow bandwagons. I'm trying to catch scum. | ||
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Which possibility seems most likely to you guys? Anyways I'm going to bed, night. | ||
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##vote Bill Murray | ||
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for some reason, i thought lynch was today, so yeah, i'll be back. my bad. | ||
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On May 04 2012 09:50 Risen wrote: Alright, that makes sense (it doesn't because you can not have me confirmed 100% unless you're scum). Don't know why I came back. I'm pulling a VE and leaving. GG scum. please, don't, town needs you to win. I think you're town even though most people don't. I voted for you yesterday but I was frustrated and not thinking straight. I think I know the scum team. Will report back later with a more in depth post. and stop tunneling risen, paq. remember what happened when I tunneled zeph? | ||
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also i think he meant to say gf, based on the context of his sentence. Also, I'm still writing. This case is gonna take forever x.x | ||
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On May 04 2012 11:09 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: [...] And I don't believe Mattchew is a goon. I believe he's a vig. It would make more sense, both according to gonzaw's theory and the fact that he gets lynched he flips GF either way [...] it wouldnt make sense to say vig in that context. "he's a vig, makes sense because he flips gf either way!" makes no sense. saying "hes a gf, makes sense because he flips vig either way!" makes a lot more sense. | ||
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2. Because that's what Matt claimed And I do think Sent's a dumb townie (no offense!) | ||
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ghost_403 + Show Spoiler + Before I get into the actual case, I'd like to address something. Ghost supported lynching a lot of people that flipped Green. But it's not only that. He consistently either says BM or St.Daniel are bad lynches, or avoids talking about them altogether. On April 23 2012 01:28 ghost_403 wrote: I think a BM lynch is a terrible idea (vig shout would be fine though). I don't think I've ever seen a case where a ninja vote was due to someone being scum. There's too much risk and no reward for scum in this situation. I think he's just insane. I really don't like the fact that Sentinel immediately jumped on the lynch BM bandwagon. Trying to lynch insane players is scummy in my book. Same goes for you Mattchew. Why would scum even try to ninja vote? It makes way more sense to sheep instead. No one would have thought twice if BM had shown up in thread and said "lol VE scum ##vote VE". VE's claim is bad. He's doing the same thing that he did in TLM LI in claiming when there's no reason to. I can't imagine scum VE doing the same thing twice, but now we're into WIFOM territory. In addition, JK is the only nonconfirmable role in the game. A vig shot shows up in the day post, and a tracker can confirm where someone went that night. It only makes sense that scum VE would claim JK. On April 23 2012 02:17 ghost_403 wrote: @mattchew: But hes cahrazy, don't vote him. Bill Murray is playing a game that's insane, but he's doing it over there and leaving the town alone. VE is playing a game that's insane, but he's doing it in such a way that the town cannot function efficiently. Disruptive insane play is far more lynch worthy than weird incomprehensible im-gonna-do-whatever-the-fuck-i-want play. @paqman: If a vig shoots BM and he doesn't die, it makes sense that the vig would claim it in thread. A jail keeper would be forced to admit to jailing BM in thread, but I can't see that happening. If the vig claim is true, we lynch BM and he flips GF. If it's not, BM flips town, and the next day we lynch the counterclaiming scum. Win-win. On April 24 2012 21:05 ghost_403 wrote: Haha, chainsaw defense. I've been giving Ottoxlol a noob pass since Day 1, but perhaps BJ is right. I'd be down with a Ottoxlol lynch. The other thing that I don't like about Ottoxlol is the fact that he's not hunting scum at all. If you take a look through his filter, his suggestions for lynches are all lurkers. There's 50 pages in this thread, and he can't find any scum who are posting? I assumed it was due to the fact that he's a newb, but newbs roll scum too. @ottoxlol: If you don't want me to try and get you lynched today, start hunting some scum. You want to suggest someone who isn't lurking and/or insane? On April 24 2012 23:29 ghost_403 wrote: StDaniel is en route to being modkilled. If he comes back and does nothing, I will discuss him as a possible lynch candidate. Since he's not even playing, there's no point in pushing for his lynch. @marv: Ottoxlol's posting history shows him posting outside the TLMafia subforum, so I'm leaning newbie on him. However, some of the stuff that I've seen him do in thread has made me think he's "newbie scum" as opposed to "newbie town". BJ's (lol) case addresses some of that. I really need to work on reading newbie towns, so that is something I think I would like to work on. On April 28 2012 00:56 ghost_403 wrote: Hey guys, let's lynch Ottoxlol. ##vote ottoxlol On April 30 2012 02:16 ghost_403 wrote: This post ended up orders of magnitudes longer than I intended. I have no idea how Ottoxlol has gotten away with being so scummy in this game for so long. Spoilers for your convenience and easy referencing. (1) His content is almost completely filler. + Show Spoiler + First of all, I would like to address the glaring fact that his filter has nothing of content in it. 7 pages. 7 pages, and I have almost nothing to say about them. They are mostly one liners and him giving excuses for everything that he does. It would be so much easier to prove that he was scum if he would just do something, anything. Unfortunately for him, at this point his lack of content now paints him as scum. 7 pages, and no content? Scum trying to pass off as useful without actually helping the town. (2) He almost completely ignores St.Daniels throughout the entire game. + Show Spoiler + It's interesting that now he claims that I soft defended StDaniels. It's the fourth time this game he's mentioned him. When were the first three?
I'm soft defending him by stating that I'm ignoring someone en route to being modkilled? No, I'm not going to even discuss someone who's not playing. It's a waste of time. What's your excuse for ignoring him literally the entire game? (3) He makes stupidly scummy posts. + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2012 00:57 Ottoxlol wrote: Ok, post it when you got it drawn. I feel like the pressure is on me because I did not make any useful post d2, and i feel its really unfair when no one really did so. I am thinking on the line of who should we lynch that gives us info. VE wagon seemed like a good start to look at, I made 3 pairs who seems to defend each other/attack the same persons. If we lynch anyone from that we can get information about the other half of the pair. This post is so scummy that any veteran player would have been immediately lynched. I was pretty happy to give him the n00b pass, but I don't think that's a good idea. In this post,
How gloriously scummy. How did we get here? On April 25 2012 08:03 Ottoxlol wrote: [...] johnnywup I missed this case before, I think a couple of ppl too because no one really talked about this. I am feeling confident voting for johnny. ##Vote: johnnywup You think Johnny is kinda sorta maybe sheeping because he doesn't give out any strong reads one way or the other (which is, ironically, the same thing that you're doing), and therefore he's scum. So what made you change your mind? On April 26 2012 05:29 Ottoxlol wrote: Because if he would be scum he wouldn't try to sway ppl from my vote (if zeph or sent is scum). Johnny was sheeping away from you. Hey, isn't that why you wanted to lynch him in the first place? On April 26 2012 05:33 Ottoxlol wrote: My vote was wasted on him anyways because no one is voting for him. Since I am the vote leader atm, I have to vote for the 2nd guy, even if I feel like someone is more likely to be scum. "Don't blame me if the guy we flip isn't scum, because I'm just voting for not-me." This is such a terribly scummy post, it's not even funny. Mafia pro-tip: vote to lynch scum. (4) He has completely sheeped on the last two lynches. + Show Spoiler + This segues nicely into my next problem with Ottoxlol: His voting patterns.
But why he voted the way he did was much more interesting. His reasons for voting VE have been beaten to death, so I'm not going to discuss it too much here. For voting Zeph: On April 26 2012 07:25 Ottoxlol wrote: I have to ##vote Zephirdd The Risen case is weak in my opinion, I can understand that points 1 and 4 can be suspicious but 2-3 doesnt seem scummy to me. He tried to defend VE, but not with the best tools, he tried to defend himself but not with the best tools. But wait! That doesn't say anything about why he's voting Zeph! You are an astute reader! I can't find it. Ottoxlol has no reason to vote Zeph, other than to sheep with the town. For voting MG: On April 28 2012 07:19 Ottoxlol wrote: BM on MG also this post I have no idea why would anyone trust you because you say so. Excuses also doesnt help the scumhunt, I think no one cares about food poisoning or cat funerals. ##vote MidnightGladius BK started posting some weird stuff, hes voting St. Daniel for ninjavoting, but BM ninjavoted d1 too and he did not mention it at all. ghost and Sentinel doesnt want to engage in the debate of other possibilities then I am a scum. no one can be 100% sure so the discussion must be on even if they vote me, so when I flip green we will have information Another sheeping! "Here's someone else's case I found moderately compelling, and here's something that is kinda scummy." Well, MG flipped green and he's right. We found scum pushing for his lynch today. Frankly, it's embarassing that the town has let Ottoxlol live this long in the game. As soon as tomorrow hits, I'm voting to lynch him for the third day in a row, and I hope this time, we can get a sucessful lynch and get this scum out of the game. On April 30 2012 10:56 ghost_403 wrote: ##vote ottoxlol I buy Sentinel's claim, lest someone else would like to counterclaim. Too bad, I was sure ottoxlol was a goon. This means I have to reconsider the whole Risen conspiracy It was such an elegant plan. I'll rephrase all this: "Anyone down for lynching Townies and not lynching BM or St.Daniel?" + Show Spoiler + Now, onto to the actual case. First, a trip down memory lane, where we have ghost's response to my previous case. I dismissed it as a good defense, but after the ottox lynch it makes him look even scummier than before. Since it's not a bus, pushing ottox so hard makes sense as scum. It's not "constantly bussing your scum mate for a week non stop to gain towncred", it's simply "lynching a townie". If Ottox did indeed flip scum, this would make ghost look a lot more townie. But now, it's looking likely once again for Ghost being scum. + Show Spoiler + On May 01 2012 23:45 ghost_403 wrote: Okay, so let's see what terrible things people have been saying about me. For reference, the case by johnnywup and the case by BroodKingEXE. Johnny's case against me boils down to four points.
All of these points are easily addressed.
Now, I'm assuming you've read my previous case. Now we can continue on that case from where we left off. On May 02 2012 10:04 ghost_403 wrote: Well, I wish you had come up with a better reason for not lynching him than "My gut tells me this is wrong." Maybe then we could have avoided it for the third day in a row. Previous to this, he was criticizing me for having a town(ish) read on Ottox, who flipped town. He then attempts to brush this off as "I wish you made better cases". As if you made any good ones either Ghost. On May 03 2012 23:19 ghost_403 wrote: I'm more inclined to believe Mattchew over Sentinel at this point. Looking back through his filter, he was pushing for, or at least suggesting, a StDaniels lynch through most of the game. I can't see scum pushing to lynch their KP for towncred. In addition to that, Risen has been playing scummy as fuck all game long. I doubt I could find a single page in his filter where he doesn't say something that doesn't make him look like either a terrible townie or scum. Mattchew's claim is consistent with my read on Risen. The decrease in scumminess that I saw from Sentinel was mostly due to him actually being moderately aggressive in pushing for an Ottoxlol lynch. Now that we know that Ottoxlol was a townie, this can very easily be attributed to scum being called out and forced to do something in the game. I would propose lynching Risen first, and taking it from there. @mattchew: That's the worst breadcrumb I've ever seen. If you think Mattchew is telling the truth, you lynch Sentinel. The only reason you wouldn't is if you think the person you're voting for is goon, which he is not if you believe Matt's claim. Not to mention suggesting st.daniels is scum is scummy. Actually pushing it is townie. Matt suggested it, making it look like he was scumhunting. But that will come later with the Mattchew Case. And as I've pointed out, Matt didn't actually push Risen until quite a bit after he "shot Risen". On May 04 2012 07:54 ghost_403 wrote: @paqman: I fully support this, and honestly, I need another couple of days to figure out which one of them is town. Sent's town game has been lackluster and scummy the whole time. Mattchew spends a lot of time advising the vig to shoot, which is thinking outloud if you believe his claim. I dunno what to make of it, but I think Risen is obviously scummy, and would be very happy with that lynch. We have Sent 'jail' BM again, which regardless of his claim leaves us in a pretty good location. I think lynching Risen is the best option. Sent, Mattchew, does this sound like a decent compromise to you both? Also, we need everyone in the town in on this, or the scum are just going to ninja vote this away from us. Do you actually think we have a few days? We are at LyLO. That means if we mislynch we lose. We can't afford compromises in LyLO. You're asking for all towns votes on neither Sent nor Matt. As far as I'm concerned, if we lynch today we should have a 50% chance at least. Asking for a smaller chance (as town) doesn't make sense. If you know Risen is town, it makes sense though. On May 04 2012 08:14 ghost_403 wrote: I've had a scum read on you all game, Risen. Don't believe me? Check my filter. Today, I am voting to lynch scum. As a bonus, it gives me more time to figure out which one of them is lying. The reason that I want a compromise is this. This is lylo, which means that if the town doesn't work together, it loses. I want a compromise so that the scum agree to work with us, and can't screw up our lynch at the last possible moment. Also, you're right. That post looks scummy as fuck. Don't blame you for pointing that out. as pointed out, lol. that's basically a scum claim imo. i hate scum claims but really? Saying "oh yeah that post was scummy, sorry bout that!" isn't townie. That's scum trying to cover up their mistakes. Town would say their mindset in saying those things, scum wouldn't. On May 04 2012 08:42 ghost_403 wrote: What I find most interesting is the fact that Risen isn't really pushing us to lynch either Sentinel or Mattchew. If he was really town, wouldn't he say "You two are stupid, obviously this one is scum"? After all, lynching a town Risen would lose the town the game. We have to get this lynch right, and Risen's not helping us do that. You aren't pushing either Sent or Matt either.... All this boils down to Ghost lynching every possible town and he is trying to lynch one now. Guess who he's voting now? Risen. PS we're at mylo, not lylo, so why don't we no-lynch? we'll have a smaller pool of players to choose scum from and it gives sent another chance to prove his claim true | ||
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also i'd like sent to jail someone other than BM, assuming your claim is true, and don't tell anyone until the day post. so yeah, i'm down w/ a no-lynch ##unvote ##vote no-lynch | ||
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I'm gonna put my vote on ghost, but I'll be back in a few hours. I don't think I'll change my vote but we'll see. | ||
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On May 05 2012 09:03 Risen wrote: Good game guys! I'm in shock right now that we pulled this off. I thought for sure mattchew revealing my crumbs was going to give away that he was scum and I had given them to him. I'm in shock right now. i caught that but it was too late :/ | ||
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i want to go cry in a corner right now | ||
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On May 05 2012 09:53 PaqMan wrote: No one listened to me about lynching Risen except for Ghost. I'm not sure why I stopped pushing for his lynch after you and Sentinel said no /: yeah well im not sure why you lynched sentinel ffs -_- and i was afk until the lynch so my vote was on ghost. I don't even know if my voteswitch would change anything. | ||
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On May 06 2012 05:10 BroodKingEXE wrote: What I don't understand is why some people had Janaan as townie. Sure he was posting consistent, but in terms of the people he voted for he provided diddly squat. he's always like this, check his profile. it's not scum/town telling. | ||
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