TL Mafia 'Area' LIII

On April 20 2012 12:37 iGrok wrote:

Tomorrow

On April 20 2012 22:26 Ace wrote:
holy shit, the roster for this game = flame fest

On April 21 2012 07:14 BlazingJitsu wrote:

Here is my response:

+ Show Spoiler [Big Image] +

No other context will be necessary. This image stands for itself.

-Blazinghand

On April 21 2012 09:48 layabout wrote:

So you support us not knowing the alignment of the player we lynch.
You also support not using KP in town hands.

VE as far as i am aware, vigilante shots hit mafia more often than lynches do.

On April 21 2012 10:23 marvellosity wrote:
I've tried to think of a bunch of different scenarios and I've not yet managed to picture one where mafia couldn't claim the same situation. The only way a vigi really clears himself is by shooting scum :/

On April 21 2012 11:05 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, one more thing and I'll stop posting now (just want to get everything out in the open as soon as possible)




VE's plan is to kill all claimed vigs.
This means that no real vig will claim, and no scum will fake-claim either.

So what happens if we lynch someone and he flips GF then? What info would you get in that case? He could be either vig or GF and we don't know since no vig or GF would have claimed (since they would have been instantly lynched).

Imagine it's LYLO, we are trying to lynch someone, and he claims vig. What do we do? Do we follow the "lynch all vigs" rule too? But if he is indeed vig we would lose, so what to do?

If we follow our plan, we will know beforehand that there are certain players whose flip won't tell us anything (the claimed vigs, assuming no Goons claim). We will know what to do with that, we can prepare. We can also use other claimed vigs to try and shoot him at night instead.
The most important thing is that if vigs claim beforehand, there will be less chaos than if they claimed right before getting lynched, or they were lynched and flipped GF

And remember, if there's chaos scum can do whatever the hell they want. If someone claims vig right before being lynched the chaos created basically gives scum the reins to do what they want (either lynch that vig, or lynch someone else, or NL, etc)

On April 22 2012 07:13 slOosh wrote:
slOosh's "VisceraEyes is scum" case.

First item: VE's rebuttal of Gonzaw's plan..

Notice how VE does not actually discuss the pros and cons of the plan itself, but instead chooses to only talk about how unfeasible it is based solely on the idea of a non-cooperative JK (which might not even exist). His point by point breakdown ,which he says is for "ease of comprehension", is actually an excuse to set up strawmen, as he avoids talking about the plan itself but rather nitpicks at each point on inconsequential points.

Go read the post. If you can honestly see any of the points being valid discussion of gonzaw's plan, then let's discuss that. But all I see is "analysis" used as an excuse to paint gonzaw in a bad light. No actual valid points.

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Second item: VE's "scumslip" catch

If you look at gonzaw's post in question, you will see that he consistently uses plural pronouns "we", and so it would be totally natural to use "our" to describe the plan. Yet VE chooses to vote after catching this "scumslip", rather than demonstrating to town how gonzaw is proposing an anti-town agenda in the giant "analysis" of his rebuttal.

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Third item: VE's evasion when asked for clarification

The post linked is the start of the evasion. Watch how Ottoxlol brings up how VE's rebuttal doesn't make much sense, and multiple times VE evades it without really wanting to flesh out his reasoning and discuss his stance. Townies aren't scared to discuss their stances - only mafia are scared of scrutiny as they fear their scum agenda being revealed.

More prodding and VE gives this "explanation"



To which Ottoxlol points out how illogical that is

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Final item: VE's apathy, misrepresentation and fearmongering (no link as there are 2 quotes)


Note how VE clearly has a stance (thinks gonzaw's plan is ridiculous and terrible) but doesn't actually move to help explain and convince town why it is bad. Instead, it is like "you guys do what you want, I don't advise it, it is clearly pro scum, but you guys decide if you want to do it or not". Why wouldn't a townie be more vocal and start convincing people why it is bad if they truly believed it was pro scum agenda? Why would they be so apathetic?

Fearmongering comes in the first line - it is true that this plan outs our vigs, but really - to say that it "gives scum all the information they need" is quite the exaggeration, and as discussed by others, the information isn't that valuable (cf. Ottoxlol's post in my third point).

Misrepresentation is in the last line - gonzaw thinks that VE is scum because of his apathy and focus on irrelevant points and lack of proper scumhunting. (here and here)



Again, he hasn't bothered to explain why this information is detrimental to town, and is instead misinterpreting it to make it seem like scum agenda. His whole beef is centered on how this plan outs our vigs, but he has never bothered explaining why that is bad, and intentionally does not acknowledge how it is different from other mass claims because it is actually 1) only making vigs claim, and 2) vigs have the death miller mechanic, which is the crux of gonzaw's plan.

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Conclusion:

VisceraEyes has displayed a lack of scumhunting, misrepresentation of facts, fearmongering, evasion, apathy to town agenda and illogical arguments. Therefore, he must be scum.

##Vote VisceraEyes

On April 20 2012 12:44 Bill Murray wrote:
I was wondering if this game was going to start

On April 21 2012 10:15 Bill Murray wrote:
We're not going to be able to outguess the mod based upon the numbers we sent in

On April 22 2012 12:43 Bill Murray wrote:

not true at all

On April 22 2012 13:47 PaqMan wrote:
VE why the hell would you claim.

On April 22 2012 13:59 Mattchew wrote:

who are you talking to

On April 22 2012 14:45 johnnywup wrote:
VE why would you claim...if you're the only jailkeeper then you're going to be killed tonight.

On April 22 2012 21:15 layabout wrote:
First off.
##unvote marvellosity

BH's case was good when you consider how early on it was posted. The case was centred around the idea that marvellosity was actively lurking (at the beginning of the game. Marvellosity is no longer actively lurking
I think that marvellosity has tried to be more open and has reacted to BH's increasingly ridiculous pressure in a very town like way.


This BM wagon doesn't appear to have any grounding. It is a mindless vote on a lurker, the sort that usually hits town and is easy for scum to hop onto. If you are on that wagon please consider that there are definitely town lurkers and if you pick one at random you are likely to pick town. If somebody else picks a lurker and you support them then there is not only the chance that they will pick town by chance but the chance that they are scum and they are deliberately picking tow.

Thirdly,
The only reason to not vote for VisceraEyes is the following:

You believe that he is telling the truth about his claim.

If you believe that then you also have to believe that VisceraEyes would make that appalling move as the real town Jailkeeper.

On April 22 2012 22:43 Ottoxlol wrote:
Forget the plan, we already discussed it too much.

I don't just disagree with your claim, I wrote it down why is it a bad play. You still did not respond