EPTI am hoping for the chance to do some serious analysis in an active game.
Death Factory Mafia 2
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I am hoping for the chance to do some serious analysis in an active game. | ||
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layabout
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On March 31 2012 03:46 Mattchew wrote: lets do this! "...Leeroy Jenkins!" Could the push/pull system be changed so that it is relative to where the players are in the queue? So if a player pushes somebody above them that person moves up the queue and if they pull then that person moves down the queue. Edit: To clarify: If a player pushes somebody below them then that person would move down the queue and if they pull then that person would move up the queue. It would not actually change a players ability to move somebody up or down, it would just make the system more difficult to moderate or operate in a effort to add some realism. | ||
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layabout
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Going after the item would tie up a lot of the PoP's. Whilst there is a danger to the person being sent to get the item, anybody that pushed them over would likely be killed for doing so and so it would offer a 1:1 trade which would be good for town. If scum happen to have a hidden PoP then we risk losing the item, a townie and the PoP's for no gain. Voting system: I think that if we were to agree upon a secondary voting system then we would all have to participate. If say 10 people are using it and 10 aren't then another voting system would serve no real purpose. So if you are serious about introducing a voting system then we need to come up with one and quickly decide upon whether to support it or not. I think that today we need to decide how we are going to play the game and kill 1 person today. I think we should take advantage of the fact that we can carry out multiple lynches by having a mass lynch tomorrow while the ratio of town to scum is still favourable. | ||
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layabout
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If we want to push people off of the edge then it might be best to follow some sort of organised item grabbing move first, just in case the person we decide to kill gets the Teleportation device and swaps with somebody we do not wish to kill. If we decide on trying to grab the item it would then make more sense to implement a secondary voting system since so many push/pulls would be being used without having to be justified. I don't think we should try to grab the item. | ||
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layabout
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On April 02 2012 01:51 VisceraEyes wrote: As it's been discussed already, there's no guarantee everyone would follow suit (regardless of alignment) and we can't just punish people who don't participate (because there's no guarantee that they're scum.) We can't force people to participate, and all it's going to do is cause confusion. The voting mechanic is confusing enough without adding ANOTHER mechanic into the game. You don't agree? Can't we just vote on whether or not to follow it? If enough people (let's say 2/3rds (13 players)) agree then everyone else would have to agree to follow it. If anybody decides to go against the town's will then we can incinerate them  | ||
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layabout
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On April 02 2012 02:10 Nemesis wrote: But the thing is that we will be policy lynching them. Both scum/town might go against the town's will. I'd rather not policy lynch someone based on refusing to go with the majority of the town. If 2/3 of the players agree and we lynch everyone who don't agree, that would be policy lynching 1/3 of the players for not following the plan. This plan will not work too well unless EVERY SINGLE PLAYER participates in it. Dirkzor, mind explaining why you find it odd that palmar wants to go for the item? well not quite, the other 3rd would be able to chose between following the town's will or saying "screw you town" and getting themselves killed. The only people that would be killed would be people that point blank refuse to act as town agrees. In other words the only people that would die would be people that had chosen to. I for one think we should have an secondary voting system! I presume that we would vote for who we want to lynch and we would then collectively perform pushes and pulls to reflect our decision. This will give us more control over who to kill. If we settle for free for all PoP-ing then the game mechanics could play a big part in who gets lynched and that may not reflect the decision reached by the majority of town. Additionally if we get organised and decide we want to kill players "X, Y and Z" then with a secondary voting system we can coordinate our PoP's to lynch them. It also means that players that have used their PoP's can still make meaningful contributions that they can be held accountable through their vote. | ||
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layabout
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On April 02 2012 03:18 Dirkzor wrote: Lets just play the game with the mechanics that are already there. People have to use their PoP's in a way they themself find good. And if that mean they are wasting their PoP's left and right so be it. I found it odd that palmar wants to go for the item because I usually agree very much with his logic and in this case I don't. That and that he is nominating himself without explaining why it should be him in the first place or why we should even get the item. Trying to find a way to use the game mechanics to town's advantage is not something that can support, FU town Dirkzor less semantics more reasons please On April 02 2012 01:42 layabout wrote: + Show Spoiler [snip] + We are using the incinerate to kill people right? If we want to push people off of the edge then it might be best to follow some sort of organised item grabbing move first, just in case the person we decide to kill gets the Teleportation device and swaps with somebody we do not wish to kill. If we decide on trying to grab the item it would then make more sense to implement a secondary voting system since so many push/pulls would be being used without having to be justified. I don't think we should try to grab the item. On April 02 2012 03:12 Acrofales wrote: + Show Spoiler [snip] + I'm glad to see everybody is so busy scumhunting today! For the record, is being for the secondary vote scummy or townie? Just so I know, because honestly I cannot use pro or contra the voting system in any useful way as a scumtell. MrZentor: I think you're basically right. Pushing (or actually pulling) Palmar (or anyone for that matter) is atm a high risk, low reward situation and we'd be stupid to do it. Atm the only reason to push someone right to the edge is because we want to lynch him. Therefore, anybody proposing to get the item is scum. Cascade, Nemesis, Palmar, Layabout and Mr.Wiggles: why are you pushing a scum agenda? ??? | ||
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layabout
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On April 02 2012 03:46 Acrofales wrote: Ok Layabout, your posting is a bit contradictory. Here you say: This seemed to me pro-item-getting. In your follow-up you amended that. Fine, take yourself off the list, although I don't much like wishy washy behaviour. Maybe you can explain why you think my behaviour is "wishy washy" and why that is relevant. How is what i have written "pro item getting"? Somebody (bugs?) mentioned that it would be easy for scum to kill the person going after the item. I have written that if they do that they would either face a 1:1 trade or a free kill (if they have a hidden PoP like in Death factory). I also wrote that getting the item woud require a lot of PoP's. Please point out where the pro item getting part is. | ||
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layabout
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On April 02 2012 05:05 Acrofales wrote: Heh, I thought the same as you last game, but I caught enough flak over my defensive response for most of D1 and a DT checked me out. Turned out I was really scum, so there might be something in it after all. I'm willing to give it a go this game. Afaik the psychological reasoning behind it is something like: scum know they're guilty and are thus more insecure when called out on it: they will therefore get overly defensive, whereas townies are more secure in their safety and will be more rational. There's a difference between giving a reasoned response about why an attack is groundless and an emotional defense. I see more of the latter than the former in Layabout's defense here: he seems rather anxious to not be called scum. Seeing as you are basing this off of the last game that you played played i suggest you go back to that game and see what happened on day1. + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14041960 Then apologise to me. Then admit that defensive behaviour is not a scum tell. | ||
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On April 02 2012 05:33 Acrofales wrote: So your defense is a non-sequitur that you're innocent because you were lynched on D1 last game? Huh? How has this got anything to do with the topic at hand? Last game I actually thought town was rather insane for lynching you, but who was I to complain about town lynching one of their own? I used the situation last game to clarify why overly defensive play is a scumtell, no more, no less. Are you trying to play onto my sympathies by referring to your D1 lynch? Why bring it up at all? /confused. On April 02 2012 04:04 Acrofales wrote: I read that as in favour of getting the item, because a 1:1 trade is (usually) a town win (because more town than scum). It seemed to have the hidden mafia ability tagged on as an afterthought. But why are you so uptight about it? You seem extremely eager to be taken off my scumlist. I was told last game (repeatedly) that overly defensive behaviour is a scum tell. Are you scum? You originally called me scummy for saying that we should grab the item. This was false and i pointed that out. You then called me wishy washy and pointed at the post that led you to infer that i wanted us to grab the item. I pointed out that there was nothing in that post to lead you to infer that. I further asked you why you then decided to call me "wishy washy" and to explain how i was being "wishy washy". You then do not explain yourself but instead you call me scummy for being overly defensive. My response to this was to think "man this guy is an idiot". You then make this post in which you explain that you were overly defensive as scum in your last game and try to use that to justify calling me scum. I responded by pointing out that in that same game i was lynched day1. I was hoping that you would realise that since i was lynched by 5/21 players for no good reason and flipped town that i might want to avoid that happening again and that, that might be why i am being defensive. I was also hoping that you would realise that "scumtells" are pretty much complete garbage, and that somebody being defensive is an appalling basis for a scum read. I realise now that i expected to much of you. | ||
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layabout
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On April 02 2012 06:11 wherebugsgo wrote: Other potential kills: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324050&user=76576 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324050&user=118447 This second guy seemed excited to play but hasn't done anything at all. What do you make of Acrofales? Bluelightz has gone quiet after being put under pressure. Just like he did in c9++ as the mafia roleblocker. He should be back at his PC soon and when he is you guys need to make him post. He should not be able to shirk off pressure by simply going afk. He is the best kill we have so far. it's not too late to post this: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Iy2BP.png) | ||
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layabout
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claimed a 1 shot dt with 2 green checks on day1. if he is town and he flips then this will confirm his checks. So he would make an excellent item grabber. (but item grabbing today is still stupid. if his checks die and flip green then we cannot make a judgement upon him. if his checks die and flip scum then he has lied to us in a way that makes no sense as town and is probably scum. but claiming now reduces the chance that either of his checks will make it to endgame (where the check would be most useful) can we afford to leave him alive until endgame? also that pull has basically forced an item grab which could greatly reduce the PoP power of town or could allow scum to throwaway their PoP's without having to give us any potentially useful information. @wbg Bluelightz should only take 8 pushes to lynch since he should move over filled spots. | ||
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layabout
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I also don't view PoP's as votes. They are tools. If we vote on what to do we can then use these tools efficiently. If we use them as votes then they are likely to get messed with by the set-up and we will have less control over who we kill. For instance the starting positions will affect how many votes it takes to kill sombody and certain roles may require additional PoP's to be moved or might cause other PoP's to be wasted or cancelled out + Show Spoiler [cough cough] + The brutish Hulk Toy! You are a Good Toy. Hulk Smash! Not only are you one of the most famous toys around but you are one of the strongest! During the day pound the conveyor belt by PMing me the action - all toys except you fly into the air due to your super strength. Everyone is randomly rearranged on a different queue or might stay the same. You can do this twice during the game. Your PoPs are also much stronger than normal and go 2 positions in either direction. Welcome to Death Factory Mafia! You are the bloated Fat Boy Toy! You are a Good Toy. As the biggest Toy around you have some very unique abilities. You can not be moved easily as it takes 2 people to PoP you in the same direction for you to move one position. If you are PoPed into a full queue position you will throw your weight around and bounce whatever Toy(s) are there out of it. You take up both queue positions. | ||
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It appears that risk is the Police car toy. If he is then he should probably tell us before we act because if that is his role then we need to use it to our advantage. + Show Spoiler [from game 1] + Welcome to Death Factory Mafia! You are the criminal catching Police Car Toy! You are a Good Toy. My my well aren't you one of the most popular Toys around? You're used to being the tools of little boys imaginations everywhere in chasing down the bad guys! That said you come with a homing beacon that can detect evil near you. You can trade your PoPing ability during the day to turn on your homing beacon. It will detect Bad Toys up to 2 queues above and below you by signaling a red light if any are in the vicinity. It will give you a false positive if at least 2 toys aren't available to be scanned. If you PoP anyone you can't use it during that same day. Once you have been PoPed your homing beacon will turn off. update note: This was updated to 1 position instead of 2. With only 4 scum and under 20 players 2 seemed way too powerful. You win by eliminating the Bad Toys. We will also need to do something about Palmar. We also need to decide if Bluelightz is really the person we want to kill since most of the pitchforks were out because of his posts from the first few hours of the game. | ||
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layabout
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24.[Item] [___________] 23.[___________] [___________] 22.[Palmar] [___________] 21.[___________] [___________] 20.[___________][___________] 19.[___________] [___________] 18.[___________] [___________] 17.[Mr.Wiggles] [cascades] 16.[Nemesis][Dirkzor] 4 pushes 15. [___________] [Mr.Zentor] 14.[VisceraEyes] [Bill Murray] 13.[Snarfs][Tobon] 12.[wherebugsgo][prplhz] 11. [Acrofales][layabout] 10.[Mattchew][Bluelightz]5 pushes 9. [___________][___________] 8. [Sbrubbles][___________] 6 pushes 7. [risk.nuke][syllogism ]7 pushes 6. [Cephiro][___________]7 pushes 5. [___________][___________] 4. [___________][___________] 3. [___________] [___________] 2. [___________] [___________] 1. [___________] [___________] we need to deal with palmar | ||
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layabout
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Palmar is too close to the item to back out now. Since nobody has said they are pushing him because they want him to die, pushing him over the edge would simply be you deciding to act against the towns wishes. If Palmar were to flip town do you think that we would let you live after pushing him? Besides the longer we leave Palmar in the incineration zone the longer we do not know whether he will decide to flip or not (if he does have that ability), and the longer we do not know where to push our lynch candidate. I think we should be lynching Nemesis. Why kill Wiggles? | ||
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The thing is that Palmar has given us next to nothing to indicate one alignment over the other and killing him because you "do not trust him" is not justifiable. I am not suggesting we lynch wiggles, but i would like to know why VE and Palmar have suggested that. what has cascades done to make you want to lynch him? Nemesis: Do you really think that this was anything other than a throwaway Pop that does nothing to help town? + Show Spoiler + On April 02 2012 12:01 Nemesis wrote: Time to actually give out my scumreads so far: Right now I'm looking at Tobon. First thing he does is proposing the secondary voting system. While that by itself is not really scummy even though I disagree with it, his next posts I find are rather bad. Note how he takes an extremely neutral stance here. He finds Palmar suspicious for his role which is similar to a role in the previous game, but then he adds that it is unlikely that Ace would give scum the same roles. This sounds to me like a scum trying to put suspicion onto someone while avoiding responsibility for it. Again he stresses how we don't know Palmar's alignment. ##Push: Tobon Also, it's been almost 24 hours and risk.nuke and Sbrubbles have not posted at all. :/ If they don't post anytime soon, I'm all for lynching them too. Here he completely misrepresents wiggles to achieve _______ + Show Spoiler + On April 02 2012 12:15 Nemesis wrote: In here, you suggest taking the item. While when people were pushing Palmar to take the item, you are against it? Would you rather someone else took the item then? What kind of person are you looking for to take the item then? People just chose palmar because he was the closest to it(so we waste less PoP) and he volunteered. Anyways I'm off for now, nighty night. | ||
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On April 03 2012 04:01 syllogism wrote: But mafia only has one standard KP, so "confirming" several players at once on day 1 seems ridiculously powerful It sounds like it Bm's claim is based upon this + Show Spoiler + Captain Commando toy - you may once per game send out a latch and cling to a player's queue. However if you attempt to swing by or latch on to a queue occupied by opposing forces they will kick your latch off and you will fall to the floor. You will not be able to push/pull until the next day when HJD comes back to pick you up off the floor. This also makes you immune to night hits. The greater the distance of your latch the higher the chances of it breaking by itself. probably too broken So maybe it is not that broken. + if he tries to move past scum then we will instead get a list of several players, with at least 1 scum in it. Until BM flips we cannot be sure of his role either. by my count we have 13 pulls and 12 pushes. we need to move palmar we need to uses risks ability we probably need to kill somebody (i ##vote Nemesis) On April 03 2012 04:04 VisceraEyes wrote: What I'm saying is that he would have corrected it before we did...he had posted, and he reads the thread. If you look at the times though... Bugs posts at 07:17 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14163806 You correct at 07:27 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14163934 I correct at 07:33 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14164010 Wiggles 1st post after mistake at 08:18 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14164379 His last post before mistake at 01:56 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14161192 Am i missing something here? | ||
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layabout
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On April 03 2012 04:52 Cephiro wrote: VE, I think I know your role, but are you sure that will be safe enough? You could still be pushed back very easily. I am ready to co-operate for the rescue mission if enough people agree though, but I hope you've made sure that there are no unclarities in your plan. Also, browsing through filters and the thread, this stuck in my eye: He has however used none. Would you care to clarify layabout? I cannot PoP save Palmar + Show Spoiler + i will be back later but for now Game of thrones is on | ||
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layabout
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Preferably I would kill nemesis. Failing that i would kill one of syllo/sbrub (i am not sure of all the facts but don't we have a check that one of them is scum? ) then Bluelightz. I think BM is town but i also think we might need to flip him, so maybe BM. | ||
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layabout
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Hmm? | ||
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layabout
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After that's done there will not be many Pop's left. Will we even be able to kill Bluelightz? He is sitting at spot number 10 so i am guessing not. Maybe you can figure out who risks alarm is telling us to kill. I also think that this turn of events has highlighted the need for us to adopt a secondary voting system of sorts to help us sort all of this stuff out, but we should do that during the night. | ||
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layabout
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Bluelightz if you actually use that power we should lynch you. | ||
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layabout
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and why did risk nuke not bother to explain his ability? | ||
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On April 04 2012 06:17 Tobon wrote: @layabout: while we are asking questions, why should we not conclude that your claimed inability to use PoPs is actually a lie to cover for being able to do hidden pushes, like the one that killed VE? because concluding that would be fucking dumb | ||
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layabout
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Find the Mafia: cephiro syllo sbrub | ||
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if not now then i will have to wait another 18 hours by then something stupid and distracting will probably have happened i also have to sleep | ||
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Thus by pulling snarfs he intends to bring him to safety. | ||
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layabout
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Of the two cephiro appears to be town because of ________yawn________ Syllogism does not appear to be scumhunting, but has spent time and effort doing "other stuff" Yet i see a number of pulls have been used on Bluelightz, before i have even had a chance to read the thread. It looks like this is going to end up like yesterday... I am not roleclaiming so suck it. | ||
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Bluelightz i would like you to explain your ability (in your own words we must not break any rules) in full and tell us your thought process behind using it today. | ||
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On April 05 2012 04:10 wherebugsgo wrote: By talking for him, what are you doing? All we've proved is that he isn't reading the thread and thus is as good a kill as anyone else. In addition, you have nothing to lose by confirming that you have no PoP power by trying to pull Bluelightz and push syllo or Cephiro. Again, care to explain why we shouldn't pull blue when you said yesterday if he uses his power he should be killed? What if Bluelightz didn't read the "don't use that anti town power you nitwit" comments? He didn't post during the night after any of them. So it is possible that he believed that it was correct to use his power to confirm his ability. It wouldn't hurt to hear his explanation for his actions before we kill him. Saying that, there is no excuse for his actions. He I didn't talk for Bill Murray. Several people (like you) called him scum for pulling snarfs. But his posts suggest that he thought it would be sending snarfs to safety. Ecuse me for poitning out that some other people were hastily jumping to conclusions and spamming posts to _________* + Show Spoiler [*] + Drown out frankly embarassing scumslips,+ Show Spoiler + "If i were town...." | ||
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layabout
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speaking of which i just noticed this in Kurumi's profile Insta-vigilante list: appruds layabout You Numbers are awesome and make breadcrumbing ezpz I am insane and Polish,that doesn't go very well. 13 2 6 3 2 2 13 i feel like i have won an award | ||
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layabout
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Apparently we are short on time, and from the sound of it pushing him should help to "2 scum" and at worse it practically hands us 1 scum | ||
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##push Cephiro | ||
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On April 05 2012 06:00 Snarfs wrote: Awful lot of resistance to pulling Bluelightz off the edge and still no good reasons not to. He's lied about his role (twice) saying that the positions would be publically announced: He used his role which at least two people warned that doing so would get him lynched. He claimed multiple times that he's specifically blue (not PR, not town aligned, not a good toy, but blue) when there are probably no literally blue roles in the game. He's used his PoPs on people who had no chance of being lynched (or just didn't use them at all). (No pull the first day). And that's all he's done. Now can we at least kill one scum, please? Snarfs how is bluelightz lying? Everything he said lines up with the daypost. Trying to lynch a player for claiming blue in a game in which there are no vanillas, because his blue role will flip green is silly. | ||
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On April 05 2012 07:22 Snarfs wrote: He said that the positions of the traps would be revealed in the day post. Granted that's probably something that Bluelightz would misread. Who do you think is scum besides syllo? Bluelightz, prplhz, maybe mattchew. | ||
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On April 05 2012 07:28 wherebugsgo wrote: The lie is here. I see no reason for anyone as town to ever use this role. If I got this role myself I would not use it unless I was scum. As scum sometimes it's easier to claim your actual role instead of faking it under pressure, which could potentially explain why he would claim it as scum. Who knows at any rate; Bluelightz has long enough played against a town wincon this game that he should die. At this point I have no clue why layabout or wiggles are defending bluelightz, but the change of heart in layabout particularly intrigues me. Because i honestly believe that Bluelightz might do this as town. I am concerned that some people are PoPing him because his actions are terrible not because they think he is scum. After yesterday it should be clear how important discussion and planning are. I am concerned that Bluelightz received so many PoP's in a short amount of time before there had been time for a proper discussion. It seems like you had all decided what to do before i even opened the thread and before Bluelightz could defend himself. | ||
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On April 05 2012 08:21 Cephiro wrote: While waiting for the PoP count, I'd like to remind town of my top-5 scumreads: syllogism, prplhz, Acrofales, cascades, Mattchew. I am not saying these are absolutely right, but these are people that you should definitely look into more closely. Just noticed that in his filter. Anyone else curious? sounds like he was trying to bait a night hit or roleblock /wifom | ||
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On April 05 2012 08:29 Cephiro wrote: Oh also, I just realized I have not used my own PoPs yet, would you like me to pull Bluelightz? As he is the one that has currently been mostly pulled, and I am fine with "lynching" him, as if I was to change one person in my top-5 scumlist, I'd switch Acro for blue. We aren't even halfway through the day yet. You might as well wait and see what he has to say for himself. I think you need to take another look at Acrofales. What do you think his intentions are when he is posting? Is his "flip-flopping" scummy? | ||
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##push Mattchew Attention thread! I can predict the future with complete and totally ambiguous levels of accuracy! On April 04 2012 06:53 layabout wrote: i would like to hear you thoughts, if not now then i will have to wait another 18 hours by then something stupid and distracting will probably have happened i also have to sleep If you would like to make use of my services i would like you to type /sellmysouldtolayabout in the thread. I am prepared to exchange 1 prediction about the FUTURE for the use of one of your PoPs that, if left to your own devices you would likely squander anyway!!! That is all. | ||
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On April 06 2012 02:16 Nemesis wrote: MrWiggles, why do you keep speculating on who shot sbrubbles? That leads town nowhere and just derails the discussion. Why don't you discuss something useful instead like who do you think is scum? This question only serves to continue to derail discussion Why hasn't a mod posted that syllogism has been pushed off the conveyor belt? Don't tell me you have all decided to just leave him and hope. If somebody were to push syllogism i could offer them a reward.... | ||
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On April 06 2012 02:29 Mattchew wrote: ##push syllogism because there is nothing scummy about cephiro. You all seem to believe that 1 of the two HAVE to be scum. I'll take responsibility for calling him scummier of the 2. ..."You shall vote for town aligned players many times!" Could you please explain why you were suspicious of Tobon? | ||
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Mr.Wiggles risk.nuke Dirkzor Mattchew Cephiro (you can still pop right?) Tobon syllogism Acrofales Pull Blueligtz off please. The only reason to keep him alive would be that he would willingly be this unhelpful and anti-town as town. That is a crappy reason for letting a player live. He even challenged us to kill him: + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2012 22:44 Bluelightz wrote: Then I become the punching bag of the next day because I didnt do ANYTHING townie in d1 and discussions like this could be avoided if you simply just believe that this is what ive got and scum would probably never kill me. If this keeps on persisting, just kill me. Scum will never kill me because im always distracting town, suck it, I bet that you think that losing one PoP is worth it for not having to think of a scummy bastard like me that will be forever useless anymore. So, just lynch me whatever, i dont care about me dieing anymore everyone refuses to believe anything I say, claim whatever. I guess I will use my push on syllo, atleast I can help some way before I die and flip town. Im obssesd with role claiming because you guys keep on being "oh randomly placed bombs in the queue are scummy as fuck and therefore bluelightz is auto-scum" here is what I say it is not me that keeps on bringing this up its YOU. YOU, keep on bringing this up "" oh bluelightz's role"Oh his role is so scummy" ##Push: syllogism | ||
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layabout
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+ Show Spoiler + On April 05 2012 07:21 wherebugsgo wrote: key points: Bluelightz's only defense of himself was "I'm town and this is a bad idea." Bluelightz has not attempted to find scum and he has not attempted to even play this game. I see no reason to leave him alive. The Bluelightz pulls have been coming in incredibly slowly and there has been resistance to it despite several players displaying stronger convictions earlier in the game. Players additionally keep moving to other subjects. I want to have him killed sooner than later because it will allow us to consolidate our pulls on someone else afterward; either in case of an emergency, or to kill someone (such as syllo or Tobon) because Cephiro fails or something like that. As for whether scum shot sbrubbles or not, sure, it's possible. If scum shot sbrubbles then there's a strong chance risk is the scum and not either of syllo or Cephiro. How do we find out though? We can't really, unless we kill one of them. We have no idea whether scum shot Sbrubbles or Sbrubbles died for other reasons. Maybe scum shot Sbrubbles and a town vig shot Palmar! Sure, it's less likely, but its still possible, right? See how fruitless these types of discussions are? Sbrubbles could have tried to protect Palmar and then could've died like that. Let's find out if that's possible! If a medic targets the mirror toy, will it result in the medic's death? Lastly, why are you concerned that no one speculated about the night kills when we already considered the possibilities you brought up? You aren't the first to attempt to address those concerns, and certainly you don't advance the discussion by acting as if we're in a dire situation of sorts because we aren't considering all the possibilities. Trying to speculate why Bluelightz would claim his role as scum or town is as equally fruitless as trying to figure out who shot whom last night. I can think of a great reason that doesn't depend on his alignment, and that's that Bluelightz is stupid. I am not sure if i understand this: If he's telling the truth, then we can get him to use his power again, and that will free up a lot of our pushes and pulls for other uses, like the items, or just killing a couple more people, since we can pull targets to the two bombed spots if they're close instead of all the way to the end of the queue. This would be for people who are not priority flips, but who we think are scummy enough to die. Wiggles, since only one of the spots is tapped why would we use Bluelightz abilty to kill somebody, when there is only a 50/50 chance of it working for us? Surely we would still have to use multiple PoP's anyway to move players we don't wish to kill off of the spots and the player we do wish to kill onto them. Why would we want to introduce additional uncertainty, for minimal gain? (less PoPs used) | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 06 2012 04:51 layabout wrote: Before you make up your mind on Bluelightz i would like each of you (that have a pull left) to read through this exchange between WBG and WIggles and share their thoughts. + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2012 07:21 wherebugsgo wrote: key points: Bluelightz's only defense of himself was "I'm town and this is a bad idea." Bluelightz has not attempted to find scum and he has not attempted to even play this game. I see no reason to leave him alive. The Bluelightz pulls have been coming in incredibly slowly and there has been resistance to it despite several players displaying stronger convictions earlier in the game. Players additionally keep moving to other subjects. I want to have him killed sooner than later because it will allow us to consolidate our pulls on someone else afterward; either in case of an emergency, or to kill someone (such as syllo or Tobon) because Cephiro fails or something like that. As for whether scum shot sbrubbles or not, sure, it's possible. If scum shot sbrubbles then there's a strong chance risk is the scum and not either of syllo or Cephiro. How do we find out though? We can't really, unless we kill one of them. We have no idea whether scum shot Sbrubbles or Sbrubbles died for other reasons. Maybe scum shot Sbrubbles and a town vig shot Palmar! Sure, it's less likely, but its still possible, right? See how fruitless these types of discussions are? Sbrubbles could have tried to protect Palmar and then could've died like that. Let's find out if that's possible! If a medic targets the mirror toy, will it result in the medic's death? Lastly, why are you concerned that no one speculated about the night kills when we already considered the possibilities you brought up? You aren't the first to attempt to address those concerns, and certainly you don't advance the discussion by acting as if we're in a dire situation of sorts because we aren't considering all the possibilities. Trying to speculate why Bluelightz would claim his role as scum or town is as equally fruitless as trying to figure out who shot whom last night. I can think of a great reason that doesn't depend on his alignment, and that's that Bluelightz is stupid. I am not sure if i understand this: Wiggles, since only one of the spots is tapped why would we use Bluelightz abilty to kill somebody, when there is only a 50/50 chance of it working for us? Surely we would still have to use multiple PoP's anyway to move players we don't wish to kill off of the spots and the player we do wish to kill onto them. Why would we want to introduce additional uncertainty, for minimal gain? (less PoPs used) On April 06 2012 05:10 Nemesis wrote: ##Vote: Bluelightz He is playing extremely similar to his scum games. We can worry about the others later, but bluelightz should die today. Thoughts please. Do we need to kill him now? Care to offer some Pro/Cons of leaving him alive today? | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 06 2012 05:20 cascades wrote: If you guys don't read my posts just tell me and I will stop bothering. Not once have Ceph nor Tobon addressed my claims or my defence. They just dodge and keep yelling "scum" over and over. That shit isn't going to stop me from pressing them on how that plan failed so bad. Let's pretend that there is no chance of either of them being lynched by town today. What do you think we should do now, with our remaining PoP's? | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
If you think he is scum then please stop arguing with him. Consolidate your points and present them in a case. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 06 2012 05:40 Acrofales wrote: @layabout: you're going to have to be a bit clearer about what you mean. If bluelightz fucks us over by not saying where the bombs are next time, we're screwed, aren't we (assuming he's even town and telling the truth this time around). I am not sure what you are refering to. I just asked people to read through WBG and WIggles's posts because Wiggles' point about Bluelughtz setting the bombs off in the dark made me re-consider my stance on Bluelightz. If Bluelightz were to use his ability again and not tell us where the bombs are then we would insta-kill him and risk losing a townie to the bombs, which would be a good trade. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I had not counted the votes at that time and it was possible that syllo could have gone over the edge and thus a PoP on him might be refunded. So i picked a name out of my ass instead. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I post PoP's to prove that i couldn't PoP. =>I am suspicious. ![[image loading]](http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/funny-gifs-trampoline-double-fail.gif) | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 06 2012 06:48 Cephiro wrote: I know the first one was legitly just proving since I asked for it myself, but the latter one confused me. You claimed to have been nullified. I thought i better post again just in case it would not have counted anyway. Plus it should show that i can't do either. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
And i was so young... And i had a Gun... | ||
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layabout
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On April 10 2012 07:57 MrZentor wrote: Well, it was difficult for anybody to do anything in the darkness. Agreed, it would have been too difficult to pull syllo off the bottom and then go back and look for scum. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On April 10 2012 08:11 Ace wrote: End Game post updated with my Diary of this game. This is incorrect. Not only did the Town's roles still work in the dark which I told everyone, just common sense should tell you just have everyone Pull syllogism down. No matter where he is located on the queue, even if you're blind you know from the day phases of both games that he is at the very most at position 18. The Town has numerous abilities that let them manipulate a player's position. I've stated this several times: If you want to kill someone asap then you should PULL THEM OFF the queue. Pushing them is just nonsense: doubly so when an Item is included. When Day 3 came around syllogism could have died again but as a running theme of stupidity this Town starts accusing people and making new suspect lists before finishing the task at hand. You can blame the setup for being difficult to understand but no one has any excuse for lacking basic sense. I was being sarcastic, of course we could have pulled syllo. Does anybody have any ideas about how they would manage to conceal their 0 PoP's to avoid making it obvious that you are the Pow Pow toy? | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I changed my mind a couple of times but in the end i thought that hitting a townie would hand the thread a near confirmed scum for the price of one town or it would hit scum. I must have been really tired... + Show Spoiler [night 1 notes] + Bluelightz i do not think he posses the guile to react the way he has so far if he is mafia Prplhz you really want to shoot him Matchew you really want to shoot him says very little of importance Nemesis you really want to shoot him Cephiro accuses cascades of dodging responsibilty for pops which he doesn't do town within range of risk nukes red check Syllogism sensible setup-based suggestions, trying to establish a good environment points out that Bluelightz had done very little to inicate one alignment or the other wants to kill wbg (for his careful tone) - very much like his push on oberyn in GoT mafia or BM (for an unlikely claim) doubts BM's claim some setup speculation "role seems imbalanced"- he has done this as town iirc argues with VE thinks ceph looks townie pushed BM an dpulled sbrub (due to dt check) within range of risk nukes red check Sbrubbles- Has been relatively inactive doesn't act until after risk's check although this could just be bad luck his assertions about syllo being scum are weak (you thought) "Syllo makes his case for some secondary voting mechanism by criticizing that free for all PoP allows both town and scum to waste their PoP. Then he throws away his vote on BM randomly. Free for all posting doesn't mean town doesn't try to reach a consensus and he pushes regardless. Is he trying to make his point about organized secondary voting being better or throwing away his vote as scum? His whole discussion with BM, questioning both the claim and game balance around it was an especially useless and space consuming discussion. BM's information isn't relevant for now and claim may or may not be true, but itself it wasn't scummish, so I don't see the point in dwelling in that." forced, misleading bullcrap he says "Cephiro, aside from you trying to get me killed (though unlike syllo, at least you tried talking before using your PoP), I can't fault your play too much. You're mostly null to me, though you have your scum points.At the beginning of the game I would agree on your stance on getting Palmar the item, in that the items are so much more useful in the hands of scum that it isn't worth a 3/4 chance of town getting it. But after he got close (before he was frozen), he just couldn't complete his task, which would be easy with a scum buddy, so I think he could be read as town. Threatening to off him is terrible play from a town perspective. It would lead the town in a bad direction (you'd be lynched if he turned green) and sounds like blackmail above all. That is scummish in my book. Also, your overall agressiveness on Palmar seems a bit forced. Based solely on posting it's hard to argue he is anything." he can't find fault in cephiro's play yet he is null with scummy points, the positvie play was his intial opposition to the item grab his scummy points are quite contrived his post is all about survival his analysis does not seem genuine he pulls syllo and calls Bluelightz and cascades lynch candidates he never actually says why bluelightz should be lynched, he just comments on his play he call cascades scummy for the pull on Palmar (which is not the reason cascades might look scummy) "How can he cut Blue's slack when he never pressured him in the first place? Opinions?" it is like he is deliberately misinterpreting the post so that he can call cascades scummy you think this is hella scummy he comments on the players that missed PoP he names Bluelightz, Zenthor, Acro and Palmar + you later even though bluelightz is rarely around at that time, acro and palmar were almost certainly asleep, acro said he wanted to pull palmar but had to go because nobody did anything and palmar is now 95% town "Oh, also, Layabout didn't PoP, but he claimed he has no PoPs. I assume he'll explain himself better when night ends, so I'd give him the benefit of a doubt until then." within range of risk nukes red check | ||
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United Kingdom2600 Posts
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