EPTBlulightz I'm coming for you!
I will not be modkilled
Never have been never will :p
C9++ Mini Mafia
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Blulightz I'm coming for you! I will not be modkilled Never have been never will :p | ||
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On March 17 2012 10:04 Bluelightz wrote: IT MEH! Well I see you are continuing your passion for not making sense. Good luck with that. | ||
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## Destroy Toad_In_A_Pink_Dress | ||
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On March 17 2012 11:13 Jitsu wrote: Jackal, you are one of my favorite posters on this entire site. All your shit is pure gold. You are revealing strange habits Mr Jitsu. How the hell do you know about Jackal's shit? Secondly, if this is true, Jackal you are a trooper cause damn that has got to hurt. | ||
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On March 17 2012 13:26 Snarfs wrote: Hey Prob, wanna make a list of everyone's location before the game starts this time so we don't have to deal with scum FoSing you for it? That's going to be my first post | ||
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On March 17 2012 12:40 Jackal58 wrote: If my shit were indeed golden I would have retired to the toilet years ago. Yeah retired to it, or died on it  | ||
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Goodnight | ||
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On March 19 2012 01:24 Nemesis wrote:Probulous, I just took a quick look at your history, and you are usually a lot more helpful when you are not scum. You still haven't even made the list you promised before the game started. Since we're on the subject, we might as well get more discussion. What does the rest of you think about VE's case on jonnywup? That is Jackal, Probulous, and whoever else who haven't given their opinion. Firstly, if you want the list, make it yourself. That little back and forth with Snarfs was a joke because last game I played I made it and got called scum for the whole first day because of it. Not wasting our time with that again. I was writing up why I think Johnny is town and that if VE continues his push to a lynch he is scum, but this sandroba claim changes things. If it is true then JCarl is confirmed town as well. @Sandroba, Why the Jackal vote? He always lurks day 1. Why the town read on VE? Johnny is looking townie to me because if he was scum he would have been told to shut up by now. I mean he was posting stuff continuously when he was being pushed and has tried to defend himself. The initial case against him was he wasn't confident in his reads. Well no shit, it is his first game and it was early day 1, no reason to be confident. That doesn't make him scum. I am not voting for someone based off of that. Unfortunately I am coming into this game a little late but what exactly is the case against Johnny? Is there anything else then his wishy-washy read and subsequent bad defense of himself? | ||
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On March 19 2012 07:52 Tobon wrote: So Sandroba, JCarlson: why reveal blue right away? Doesn't that make you guys immediate scum targets? Because it pretty much confirms them as town until one of them flips, or is checked red. That is hugely powerful day 1. Plus JCarl was somewhat of a possible lynch so it makes sense to head that off. | ||
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On March 19 2012 07:33 xsksc wrote: any particular reason or do you just feel like it? Are you still on the fence about Johnny? To me his reaction was pretty townie. He changed his read because he realised he had nothing to base it on. How is that scummy? Since then he has been on the backfoot all game long. VE just keeps nailing him with small errors that could come from both a town or scum. So why do think Johnny is scum? | ||
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On March 19 2012 08:13 xsksc wrote: My problem with him was his bad posting for the most part, I couldn't make sense of it, it didn't look like a townie to me, why would a townie be so worried about having an unpopular opinnion? If he's town he has nothing to hide! A johnny lynch in my eyes is preferrable to a lurker lynch or a no lynch, but I hope we can find someone scummier by the end of the day. To me that is a null tell at this stage of the game. He thought Jackal was town based off of a feeling, that much is obvious. It looked like Jackal wanted to contribute and VE had already stated he thought Jackal was town. I doubt Johnny expected the response he got and so back pedalled when he realised his mistake. Being lynched is bad for your team whether you are scum or town. I think if he was scum, he would have been told to shut up rather than constantly replying with stuff which doesn't clarify his alignment. It is not much but neither is the case against him. Since then he has been constantly trying to reassert himself. Now that could be scum or town, I am not happy lynching someone based off of that. Especially someone in their first game, if it was VE who made those posts, then yes he should know better. I want to know VE's reasoning for continuing his attack for so long. His vote comment "Lets see what falls out" sounds like a pressure vote, if so why keep going? @VE, when you voted for Johnny did you intend for him to be lynched? | ||
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On March 19 2012 08:14 xsksc wrote: ROFL, my mistake. I read it as you being confused about his disappointment. Oh and my post to sandroba that you quoted was about lynching jackal, lol. | ||
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On March 19 2012 06:15 Tobon wrote: I'd be happy to post more. What more would you like me to talk about? And what I said was that if it came down to it, that I'd rather bandwagon than allow a no-lynch, because I believe a no-lynch to be a big waste of time. You'll notice that I haven't actually voted for or tried to push the case against anyone with lynch votes yet. But yes, if just as the current example, Johnnywup has the most votes but no majority and we're near the end of the day, I'd add my vote to try to get a lynch rather than leaving a no-lynch. Only scum do this. It absolves you of your responsibility to provide a reason for your vote. If I can say "well everyone is voting Johnny so I will vote Johnny" then you cannot tell if my motives are town or mafia driven. Aside from the Dirkzor analysis of your post, you keep asking questions (1, 2, 3, 4). You never answer them yourself, or provide opinions for us to analyse. The only thing of substance you have produced is this On March 19 2012 07:20 Tobon wrote: Initially, I thought that VE was pressuring Johnny to gain info, and even though I find Johnny's response a null read (can't tell whether it's newbie town or newbie scum - I can identify with his reaction being a newb myself either way), that seemed good townie behavior. However, the way in which he has now backed off and unvoted, as well as defending Sloosh against a charge of chainsawing, without a whole lot of _there_ there, and just generally controlling the conversation, makes me wonder if he's pulling the strings here. What if Johnny is newbie scum, and VE is also scum? VE pushes a little too hard, gets some of the rest of us to defend, and never really intends Johnny's lynch at all? He gets a lot of time spent, and if Johnny isn't lynched the town gains nothing, whereas if Johnny is lynched, VE gets a lot of credit for the success of his "random" accusation. It seems like a clever win-win he might have built. That seems like an awful lot of paranoia on my part, though. It's much simpler to just assume that scum is hiding amongst the lurkers rather than the scum actually controlling conversation from the start. In short, I find VE scummiest of the active posters so far, but a lot of my suspicion remains on the lurkers. Yup, which is why I haven't voted yet. Which is a lovely piece of waffle which can be summarised as "I think VE is scummy for reasons that may or may not make sense". There are reasons to be suspicious of VE, his insistence that Johnny is scum would be a nice way to get a bandwagon vote through. He wouldn't be bandwagoning as he lead the lynch. I think this is what you were trying to explain but your case is really convoluted. This is a very wishy-washy piece of fluff that makes it look like you are contributing without contributing. If you don't shape up before the end of the day and actually provide content I will gladly see you swing. | ||
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On March 19 2012 09:10 Tobon wrote: Whatever, dude. I've answered everything asked of me (not much, true). If you have more questions, ask. You may think my substance is "waffle", and heck, you could be right, but you aren't really disagreeing with it either. That post was a bunch of waffle basically saying that you are reading me as a null newbie, and you'll lynch me for not being helpful. Well, if "not helpful" is the only thing you can find to lynch, you aren't doing a very good job. Meanwhile, I'll do what I can to learn to be helpful. What is with the passive aggressive bullshit? Everything in your filter is just questions and fluff. If you want to help, then find scum. But of course, you don't want to make your alignment clear. You don't want people to actually know, what role you were given because you rolled scum. ##Vote: Tobon | ||
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On March 19 2012 09:36 Tobon wrote: Here, I'll make my alignment clear: I claim vanilla town. I don't think this will surprise anyone, really, nor do I expect the claim to change anyone's mind. And I wasn't passive aggressive with you, I was (and am) simply dismissive. You really think your case says anything other than that I'm not the best player in the world, which has been obvious since the get-go? No you are avoiding looking for scum. Then when someone points it out you dismiss them. How am I supposed to know you are what you claim you are if you don't bother to even try and contribute. Find me scum and I will remove my vote, but your determination to try brush this aside just confirms my suspicions. You're acting like [UoN]Sentinel from Werewolves II (filter). Instead of taking my advice and start scum hunting, you get all defensive and dismissive. That will not change my position, so if you are town, find me scum. | ||
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On March 19 2012 08:23 Probulous wrote: I want to know VE's reasoning for continuing his attack for so long. His vote comment "Lets see what falls out" sounds like a pressure vote, if so why keep going? @VE, when you voted for Johnny did you intend for him to be lynched? VE, can you respond to this please. In light of your unvote I can only assume you no longer intend for him to be lynched. | ||
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On March 19 2012 12:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Of course I intend for him to be lynched. Why would I vote for him otherwise? Silly questions. Don't worry about my vote. It's mine and I'll control it. You worry about your vote. Do something with it. Well what is the point of saying "lets see what shakes out" if you are sure he is scum? To me that reads as a pressure vote. More importantly what exactly is the case against him? xksc explained his reasoning recently. Do you have anything more to go on than "he was wishy-washy about his Jackal read". On March 18 2012 10:11 VisceraEyes wrote: He's tripped a scum-alarm for me, particularly where his read of you is concerned. I found it to be weak and wishywashy. He even goes so far as to clarify that his read of you is "likely to change"...twice he said it. Plus not having much of a reason to state in-thread that he had a town read on you. Like, I have a town read on you, but his first response to my line of questioning was like "I don't know, I can't explain, etc etc." I know exactly why I have a town read on you, and it's quite easy to explain (as I demonstrated). And while I hope that doesn't change, I would never say that it's "likely" to change because I'm working under the assumption that I'm right. This does not a case make. It was very early day 1 and this is his first game, it should not be surprising that he isn't confident in his reads. Explain to me how this makes him scum? On March 18 2012 10:21 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, claim after one vote. That's not doing you any favors either. I think we got a winner here guys. Ready, set, VOTE! This is so stupid my head hurts. He said he was VT. How is that claim? What is he supposed to do, maybe say something like this On March 18 2012 07:37 VisceraEyes wrote: I'd like to take this opportunity to tell everyone that I'm town and definitely NOT scum this game His claim says nothing about his alignment but you take it as further evidence for your case. On March 18 2012 10:53 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm asking why you'd be considered 'a prime lynch candidate'...you seem to have a lot of inherant guilt that's bubbling forth just in our little interaction...I can't wait to see what the case on you will be tomorrow.. His post that you were referring to is this On March 18 2012 10:17 johnnywup wrote: Because I don't want people to think that I'm saying he's definitely town. If people think I *know* he's scum, then I'd be a top candidate for lynch... This is my first time playing and I'm not good at articulating what I'm thinking. It comes back to the same point, he isn't confident in his reads. Now yes he could be scum, but the point is there is nothing here that doesn't fit with a new townie. Your "inherent guilt" is bullshit because he is just trying to clear his name. You haven't explained why he must be scum, just that he backpedalled on his reads. He has shown he is willing to try and clear his name. He has been active and transparent and you on the other hand are tunneling like a crazy person. This should not come out of a veteran's keyboard On March 18 2012 14:40 VisceraEyes wrote: At any rate, good luck with defending the indefensible, because as little reason as you think I have to be attacking him, that's exactly as little reason you have for defending him unless you know something I don't. You say he's a new player - I say I'm calling out new player scum mistakes. If I see a bullshit case on someone who could be a townie I am going to poke holes in it. It is up to you to prove he is mafia, not the other way round. We should never lynch a townie because people are scared of defending those they see as town. Right now you are being pushy and vocal and trying to get reactions which is fine, but you get held to the same standards as everyone else. Explain your vote. If you have something else I'd like to see it because everything I read from you about Johnny is based on the same principle. | ||
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On March 19 2012 12:48 VisceraEyes wrote: Thanks for the tips Probulous. As always, you're a pleasure to read. So you don't want us to understand your reasoning or the motives behind your actions? I am just asking you to explain your vote but you are being deliberately opaque. | ||
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##Vote: VisceraEyes Maybe you'll play now. | ||
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On March 19 2012 13:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not interested in "selling" johnnywup to anyone as a lynch. If you don't agree with me, that's fine. I'm interested in hearing some other options, but half the players are inactive. So yeah, good luck with your VE vote. Let's see what that shakes loose. So you clearly don't believe he is scum then. Here is my thought process VE thinks Johnny is scum ->VE votes for Johnny Probulous doesn't think Johnny is scum-> Probulous asks for a clear case from VE to check if he is missing something VE tells Probulous to fuck off-> Probulous is confused A town VE would want people to vote for scum -> VE is not town If you believe Johnny is scum, you should want him lynched. | ||
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On March 19 2012 13:25 johnnywup wrote: he does still want me lynched, hes made that much clear. he just has a better candidate in mind, seems like Well if he wants you lynched he would be selling it to the rest of us, so no he doesn't want you lynched. Actions speak louder than words and his actions say he no longer thinks you are scum. | ||
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On March 19 2012 13:26 xsksc wrote: It looks like he wants him lynched, he just doesn't think there's enough people that also want him lynched so he's pursuing other options. That's how I see it. I am asking him for a clear case that doesn't boil down to "he changed his reads", that is all. Sure I am only one vote but hey one vote is still a vote right? More importantly if you beleive you ahve scum day 1 you push that lynch till he dies, you don't go "Aah it's too hard, better try next time." I have no problem with him disagreeing with me, it is his insistence that he won't even explain his position that makes me think he has no position. He just chose someone and ran with it. The fact that he was willing to lynch someone based on this makes him scum in my mind. | ||
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On March 19 2012 13:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Probulous, you're dealing with too many extremes. First of all, there are more than one scum in this game. While I understand we can only lynch one at a time, I perceive a fair amount of resistance to his lynch and I'm opening myself up to other options. This isn't hard shit to understand, and I think you're being intentionally oblique. Lighten up sir. Look, me and jdub are cool. He knows what's up. If I'm wrong and he's town, me backing off him is a chance for him to do some actual scumhunting instead of constantly defending himself. I don't want to have to go all OMGUS on you Probulous, so please understand that I know that you're better than to actually think I'm scum. Thanks for the backhanded compliment. If you think I am scum say so, I hate it when people imply shit. Be straight with me and forget the veiled threats. I don't like your play, it reeks of scum to me. I haven't played a game with you before so I am not sure if you always this "loquacious". Your targeting of Johnny who was clearly confused and out of his depth, was fine for an initial prod but to keep going looks like scum hoping for a wagon to form. When it was clear it wasn't happening, you backed off. My biggest issue with you is that you are not being transparent. You are posting a lot but when asked for specific information, you refuse. Why? I can't reconcile that. I'm leaving my vote there for now, there are still many hours left in the day. Tobon is still on my radar so if he turns out to be a more viable lynch today I will switch. | ||
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##unvote ##Vote: Tobon What are your thoughts on Tobon? | ||
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On March 19 2012 14:03 VisceraEyes wrote: By the way, it should be noted that Probulous defended johnnywup using the words "confused" and "out of his depth". I'm excited to see these guys flip. ^^  | ||
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On March 19 2012 14:09 xsksc wrote: Hmm, I find it odd that most people seem to have so easily accepted johnny as a confused newb townie. Personally, I haven't really seen anything from him which is inherently town, he could just as easily be scum. Probulous, I'd too like to know why you used the words "confused" and "out of his depth" to defend him. Why does that make him town? If he rolled scum as a brand new player, he could just as easily fuck up and then panic when the pressure is applied. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but I'm yet to get a town vibe from him. I liked his second post On March 18 2012 07:41 johnnywup wrote: I don't buy it from VE, no reason to reveal faction at this stage in the game when no one is even accusing you. You may be trying to get our subconscious trust from the very beginning. But I don't know. You could be lying but you could be telling the truth. It's too early to say which is more likely. But I've got an eye on you. It would be very easy for a new scum to just agree with what the veteran's say. He has also been in thread constantly posting. Scum would have told him to shut up a long time ago. Unlike VE he has been open with his thoughts and that has been half his problem. The guy is all over the place and to me that is more likely town than scum. I just don't see his scum team leading him down the river like that so early in the game. I agree it is not much but neither is the case against him. As for the use of confused, here take a look Well, he was being agressive towards you. Of course, you weren't necessarily accusing him. I think he took the "also looks at jackal" as a direct attack towards him. Otherwise, general aggressiveness obviously isn't a town-tell. but like i said this opinion is not concrete and is very likely to change. He clearly has no idea how to respond. My defense was simple really, he could be confused scum, he could be confused town but him being confused has nothing to do with his alignment. So you don't vote for him based off of it. I hate it when we lynch a guy based on a bad case and "he changed his mind" is a bad case. | ||
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I tried to get in early to work but I got pulled into a meeting when I got in. Finalising objectives for 2012 (in March, that's big company efficiency for you). I am on lunch at the moment but won't be around for long. Sorry guys, I wish I could be more productive, fucking work is giving me the shits. Anyway, we are one scum down which is an awesome start, here is the next. Sloosh He is clearly scum this game. The first thing I would like to point out is his meta (this is not the whole case, just sets the tone). Here is Sloosh as town Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VII He is a VT Newbie Mini Mafia III - He is a Medic Now look as his Mafia play Newbie Mini Mafia IV - He is a Goon When he is town he posts like crazy and forces town to follow his reads. He is forthright and pressuring. When he is mafia he lurks and posts only what he needs to post. His major case when he was mafia was a tunnel on a townie and he refused to look at other cases. This game his filter doesn't even reach a page despite all the shit that has happened so far. His only case was against xksc which was forced as anything and he didn't comment substantially on anything else. From a run through of his filter he looks like scum, so how about when we take a closer look. The xksc case - Klicky This is the crux of the post On March 18 2012 15:18 slOosh wrote: Right now my eye is on xsksc: the first thing he does is join VE and start grilling the newbie. He then posts a pre-emptive defense for his lack of vote. He takes a whole paragraph to say "I didn't vote because I wasn't sure". Wishy washy about his read, giving obvious advice about using our time without actually doing it himself and keen to explain why he did not add a vote even though no one actually asked him. Note that xksc never said he thought Johnny was town, just that he might be town. Anyone early on Day 1 who is adamant they have found scum and will not change their vote is likely to be scum. Unless there is a definite scumslip it is reasonable to be wary about your reads. That was why I thought VE's read on Johnny was a pressure play because nothing so far was definitely scummy. Sloosh tries to paint xksc's prudence as wishy-washy play. When xksc points this out Sloosh follows up with this case (Klicky) which boils down to On March 19 2012 00:26 slOosh wrote: 3) You take half a paragraph to assert that we have a lot of time and implicitly encourage thread stagnation as you do not offer any new discussion points or "push a town agenda" 4) You completely ignore my suspicions on your 'wishy-washy on the fence' nature point in my case. Add in some misrepresentation (painting me as someone stupid enough to try to convince someone that they are scum) and some more sidestepping (in the form of asking me for my stance without clarifying your own at all) and right now you are my #1 read. The main point I get from here is that xksc is apparently not pushing the discussion along and so is being hypocritical. Well I disagree, he was clearly forcing Johnny to respond to his case. His point about time was that there is plenty of it available to Johnny to shape up. It is clear from his posting that xksc was suspicious of Johnny but wasn't sure because the case was weak. Again, Sloosh is painting xksc as being wishy-washy and fluffy when he is one of the few that is actually contributing. Also note, he has not commented on Johnny specifically (aside from saying he thinks he is a deer in headlights). He hasn't commented on VE either, or Jackal, or anyone else. This is really similar to his play in Newbie Mini Mafia IV. He then nails to coffin shut with this beauty of a case ( Klicky ). This is the important bit On March 19 2012 05:54 slOosh wrote: Nothing in your filter indicates a reservation of opinion. It's clear that you already think he is scum and are shutting down evidence from a guilty until proven innocent standpoint. Add to that some even more misrepresentation, acknowledging the only line I mention him yet somehow construe that I am "so sure" he is town, when I made no such read. You are right to be confused. Apparently xksc is now not being wishy-washy but is stubborn. He has clearly made up his mind and will not change it and that makes him scum? This is scum realising their case is shit and finding something else to pin on their suspect. Then when this is not enough he moves in another direction (Klicky). On March 19 2012 10:34 slOosh wrote: Saying someone could be mafia for traits that he himself displays; I think that constitutes hypocrisy. Which was rightly pilloried as both hypocritical and inconsistent. See the pattern here. When the case makes no sense, find a reason for it to make sense. When even this doesn't work he moves onto others (Klicky). His next major contribution is his case against Snarfs (Klicky). I have no problem with the post itself. It did come after Tobon, sandroba and jcarlsoniv voted for Snarfs so the timing looks like joining a wagon. Either way it is a decent post which is followed by this doozy (Klicky). Yes, Snarfs' broke the rules but to me this looks like someone hoping for a modkill. Then his final post before the deadline is (Klicky), which has rightly been pointed as very scummy. The whole thing reads as someone trying to distance themselves from the impending lynch, which combined with the timing just confirms my read. It gives him a good excuse not to bus his scum buddy. If the only time he had to post was right at the deadline when the lynch was already confirmed jumping onto Jackal would look like a bus. His vote wouldn't have made a difference to the end result so he decides to post an excuse and place a vote to nowhere. TLDR - Sloosh has pushed a phony case all game and when forced to re-evaluate, jumped on a townie wagon and then placed an excuse for not voting for scum right on the deadline after the lynch was confirmed. | ||
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On March 20 2012 11:13 xsksc wrote: @probulous Not saying the case is bad, it's good, I'm just confused by the timing. I've been telling everyone sloosh is scum for ages now and you've had plenty of chances to support me if you felt that way about his case on me. My last post from yesterday was this one (Klicky). I didn't push the Sloosh case because I wasn't sure about whether he was being his usual tunneling self. I also wasn't sure about you. If you remember I was pushing VE for his terrible case on Johnny and you jumped on his wagon. Now yes, you explained your position, which, made sense but that was just before I left. Then I missed the deadline due to stupid work. Sloosh actions since I left made him look even more scummy so I posted what I had when I could. | ||
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The only meta we have on Sloosh is his newbie games, are we supposed to just assume he is a completely different guy now? As for pushing veterans around, well they are players too and could be scum as well. Right now we have your previous actions or your word. Part of the reason I didn't push this yesterday was because I too was suspicious of xksc but for reasons completely at odds with you. I thought both VE and xksc were being far too gungho about lynching someone who could be a newbie town. I think this is the weakest part of my case against Sloosh because it could just be a townie pushing who they think is scum for really bad reasons. Your jump onto Snarfs' was bad. There were others on him already and then you call him out for a simple mistake. The most telling things was the comparison with his previous play which is indeed quite different. Saying something that can be interpreted as contradictory does not make a case. Finally your unvote was really badly timed. I agree with Dirkzor that it looks like scum either trying for a no-lynch or providing reasons not to bus their partner. Saying sandroba was not confirmed town is technically correct but we can't play mafia assuming everything a massive ballsy mafia setup. The chances of sandroba being scum are very slim and there is no reason to play like he is mafia. He was the first one to call out Jackal, so for sandroba to be mafia he would have had to be bussing one of his team mates before anyone else as well as outing his other scumbuddy (assuming 3 scum). | ||
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On March 21 2012 02:45 Dirkzor wrote: Oh and to add about probulous: He have made excuses for being away. Mostly people who are scared to get caught lurking excuse themself being away from thread. I hate when people use excuses that are mostly life stuff (birthdays and work) Whatever man  I'm just trying to be transparent. | ||
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On March 21 2012 07:40 Snarfs wrote: I'm leaning towards Nemesis being town. After my initial vote, he hasn't done anything to raise my suspicions, and as I stated before the day post I think his tunneling of one of the stronger players this game doesn't make much sense from a scum point of view. This is my feeling too. I think Sloosh is mafia and Nemesis has been pushing Sloosh as well. I find it hard to believe that mafia would be bussing Day 2 given they lost Jackal with the first lynch. I'll take another look and see if I can find anything. ##Vote: Sloosh | ||
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##Vote: slOosh | ||
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I am Town, Vanilla Town, lynch Sloosh. | ||
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On March 21 2012 22:23 slOosh wrote: As for who I would start discussion about it would be Probulous. For someone who has closely watched my posting in my newbie games, it doesn't make sense that he would use raw meta to "set the tone" - he knows the failure that was my SNMMVII game (where I was VT) and yet still assumes that meta is viable, as if I didn't want to improve my play. Everyone wants to improve and I know you are changing your style. The point is the only evidence we have on your meta is your newbie games so to dismiss it as "it was a newbie game" is stupid. Anyway that isn't the meat of the case. He gives off lurking vibes, especially so since I've seen his scumhunting / discussion driving nature. The only thing he has talked about after D1 is me - I'd think he would move on to find the "last scum" as there isn't any serious opposition to my lynch. You are scum my friend. Nothing you have done since then makes me think otherwise. As for finding the last scum, I find them one at a time. We still have a whole day before the night and then another two days before the next lynch. There is still plenty of time to find your buddy/s. | ||
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On March 22 2012 02:05 sandroba wrote: SlOosh is behaving like townie right now and probulous doesn't seem to care too much about this game. I heard from someone that he is normally very good and very active. Day1 he spent the whole day bickering about your unvote on johnny and going around in circles. Also no one (besides you) really tried to keep votes away from jackal and probulous was mia at that time. His argument about slOosh trying to distance himself from jackal with that post right before the lynch does not make sense, because that post actually accomplishes the opposite. You seem to be forgetting I am on the other side of the world. I am here and posting but everyone else is in the middle of the night. So when I log on in the morning there are pages of stuff to read just before the deadline. Normally the deadlines are later so people are on later and I can push and drive discussion. You call it bickering, I call it putting VE in his place. He could well be scum, his vote to seal the Jackal lynch is what "confirms" him. He knew his case was shit yet he was actively pushing for the lynch. I even asked him if he intended to lynch Johnny and he made it clear that he did. Then he says he knew he case was weak. Are you telling me that discussion was useless? The thing that made him town in my mind was his Jackal vote. He could have pulled a Sloosh and said he wasn't sure, hell he thought he was town for most of the first day, but he hammered Jackal and for that he gets a town read. I explained why I was MIA. That post of Sloosh puts us in a WIFOM situation. Did he do it because he wanted town to reason he wouldn't do it as scum? I think VE's point about how it contradicts his earlier positioning on you is a great point that I missed. I also think it highly unreasonable that anyone would doubt a mason claim from you on day 1. It is way way way too risky a scum move and to assume otherwise is a huge logical fail. I just don't see Sloosh actually believing you could be scum. | ||
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On March 22 2012 06:41 slOosh wrote: Upon rereading the thread, ALL his activity D1 centered around a defense of johnnywub. All of it. There is no indication of desire to scumhunt. He acknowledges that he had suspicions on me due to my interactions with xsksc but did not push his case, nor did he even ask any probing questions to get a better read. Even when he moves his vote to Tobon after he has his scuffle with VE, he doesn't pursue a stronger read. Conclusion: I think that he chose an easy way to look active by defending a townie (notably after Sandroba gives his johnny is town read - contrast to Nemesis who defended him from a poor case before anyone gave such reads). Blending in and not doing anything useful ( I expressed how I think his case on me had holes in them) For God's sake people I am always going to be catching up because of when the game starts. Of course others are going to be saying stuff before me, I can't help that. As for Day 1. VE was getting a very very easy ride. I don't why people assumed he was town just because he was active. I pushed him about his weak case because I thought he was scum then when he responded openly and confirmed he thought the case was weak and that was why he unvoted my case didn't make sense anymore. So I looked elsewhere, Sloosh I know you tunnel, so I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. I did go scumhunting, I found Tobon who was saying crazy stuff that made no sense. I pushed him and he responded with a passive aggressive dismissal. So I kept my vote there. At this point on Day 1 my scum reads were VE and Tobon but the VE case didn't make sense anymore. It was more of a gut thing than anything else so I left my vote on Tobon. Then I get called into a meeting before the deadline so I can't re-evaluate what has happened overnight. VE's hammer on Jackal confirmed him in my eyes so I had to look elsewhere. Tobon has been more active and looks better. With my knowledge that VE was town I went back and looked at those siding with me on the Jonny debate. I took a closer look at your case against xksc and it made no sense. Then I looked at your behaviour since then and it made you scum. I posted what I could on my lunch break. I know the timing isn't great but you have to realise that I have contributed when I can. This whole thing about me not contributing is just plain wrong. I was the one that pushed the case on theyou. XKSC put his suspicions out there but I drove this case. I pushed VE on Day 1 and I pushed Tobon. | ||
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On March 22 2012 07:24 VisceraEyes wrote: So what's the deal? Do you think slOosh is scum? This is a long post, and all I really get from it is you trying to discredit me in one paragraph and agreeing with me in another. I can't tell what you think of slOosh from this post. What's the point of this post? Sloosh is scum. Gah! I am not discrediting you, I am explaining my actions because you guys seem to think I am mafia. Yes I thought you were scum on Day 1 but your vote makes you town now. I am responding to people individually, which in hindsight may not be the best way to do this. | ||
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On March 22 2012 07:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Also, I'm going to be playing the part of the wall you have to bang your head against today Probulous...good luck sir. Alright wall, what do you want to know? | ||
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On March 22 2012 07:35 Snarfs wrote: I know you keep using this word and I'm verifying that by 'hammer' you do indeed mean '2nd to last vote'? Yes, that is what I mean. He could easily have not voted for Jackal and stuck with his initial read if he was scum. | ||
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On March 22 2012 07:32 VisceraEyes wrote: Probulous I'm over here bro! You realize that you're defending yourself to the person you're saying we should all lynch right guy?! Yes, and? You seem to be taking his case seriously so I was addressing it. | ||
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On March 22 2012 07:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Probulous: Why am I "confirmed town" for my vote on Jackal? Why was I not scummy for defending Jackal (as sandroba seems to think) after Jackal flipped scum? Your attention was on me for the majority of the day, surely it didn't just escape your notice that I called him 'confirmed town' and was defending him for a fair portion of the day... Re: responding to slOosh's case - if you're town and think that slOosh is scum, you'd be interested in clearing your name with townies, not scum. Even in your response you say "you seem to be taking it seriously"...if it was about me, why didn't you respond to MY post on the matter, your townread, rather than slOosh's, your scumread? Well there are a lot of posts to get through. I was working through them but realised answering everyone is not working. It doesn't matter to me where the case comes from. Your post mirrored his anyway. You are not scummy because you chose to vote for Jackal when you didn't have to. His lynch was basically everyone sheeping sandroba and you had made it clear you thought Jackal was town. Of all the people in this thread you had a reasonable explanation for not voting for Jackal. But you chose to nail him to the wall. I just don't see why you would buss a potentially strong scum buddy on day 1. The only one who was really pushing you was me. Sure sandroba was a little skeptical of you but you were in no danger of being lynched. The upside was minimal compared to losing a scum buddy. There is nothing wrong with defending someone who is scum. Everyone does that at some time in the game because we don't know who scum are. Your actions, namely your vote, clears you in my mind. I'll find your post and respond to it now. | ||
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On March 22 2012 06:51 VisceraEyes wrote: I noticed that about Probulous too slOosh...the biggest actual stance he took yesterday was that I was scum based on my attack on johnnywup, which he ended up dissolving before the final vote stuff started happening. And after Jackal flipped scum, he didn't even look twice at me - just immediately voted for slOosh. If he were town and he had even an inkling that I was scum, wouldn't he be more convinced that I'm scum when Jackal (someone I called confirmed town early on and defended for a lot of D1) flipped scum? I think I have explained this now. Jackal flipping scum does not make you scum because you had every reason not to vote for him. You had made it clear you thought he was town, like very very clear. Defending scum does not make you scum. It makes you more suspicious especially if you don't vote for them. Your actions make you town in my eyes. | ||
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On March 22 2012 07:58 VisceraEyes wrote: You really can't think of an upside? Really? If you were scum, your choice was this
Now the downside to unvoting would have been? Well you would have looked scummier for causing a no-lynch but hell so did everyone else who didn't vote for Jackal. You had a reason not to and he could come back Day 2 and prove his "innocence" anyway. I mean no-one would have known he was scum if he didn't swing. If he did eventually get lynched you could change your position and bus him then. No the upside is so ridiculously small for the costs that I just don't see why you would do it. It made no rational sense for me to continue my line of enquiry because to me you were confirmed. So I looked elsewhere. | ||
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What is wrong with my reasoning because it still makes sense to me? Votes > words in my opinion. Explain this to me because I am completely at a loss as to why this makes me scum. I am town and have followed the same logic I use every game so if there is something fundamentally wrong in my thinking, point it out. Otherwise I am going to get mis-lynched again. Does everyone else understand what VE is saying? | ||
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On March 22 2012 08:22 VisceraEyes wrote:I'm taking a step back. Maybe reread your filter. If you still look like scum, I'll try and explain it to you again. In the meantime, I'll just point out that the italicized statement in the quote above indicates inherent self-guilt. If you'll notice, there's a fair amount of resistance to switching off slOosh...but I'm sure it doesn't feel that way to you. No it doesn't because I am still catching up on what happened between last night and now. Everyone sheeped sandroba Day 1 and now both you and him are pushing me. I see a miss-lynch coming. When I wrote that, I meant in the future generally, as in my logic won't change unless you can explain to me why it is bad so I will get miss-lynched in the future. Anyway, I am going to take a break and try and regather myself. I'm a little frustrated now and I don't think it is helping my posting. | ||
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On March 22 2012 08:29 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote: Maybe i would answer if you were not such a cunt + Show Spoiler + swearing is bad children, don't do it Really? Come on son there is no need for that. I agree with Johnny that you have been useless this game. Laya, I don't expect anything from Bluelightz but you are a decent scum-hunter. Shape up. | ||
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On March 19 2012 19:03 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote: This is so scummy it is not funny. Only scum push provide single targets for the DT. It narrows the pool of suggested targets to townies. I know this because I am his suggested target. I'm not sure of Probulous but I think a DT should check him I think On the lurkers, I think we should keep on the pressure, I'm waiting on Jackal cause I never get a correct read on him(except in purgatory mafia mwahahahhaha) I'm gonna read up some past games of him as town and scum to compare, for reference to anyone that is going to compare Mafia, I will use MLP Mafia for his town games and TL Mafia XLVIII as for his scum games. I'm gonna talk about this with my other part as soon as I can. This has been used as a reason for TIPD being town He just says he is waiting on Jackal. How is that pressure? The irony is that he wants to pressure lurkers but is absent from this thread more than most. Here (Klicky) he actually defends Jackal. On March 19 2012 20:56 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote: Jackal was town that game, this looks a soft-defense to me. Then comes thisjcarl, about your statement on Jackal I think he justs lurk his heart out day 1 =_=, just take a look at the latest Mr.Wiggles Mini, he had like 3 posts d1 but he did post more AFTER it ==". Since your here, I'd like to give you this question, What do you think about lurking? Is it a Scummy or Towny trait? I feel that lurking IS both a scummy & towny trait, Scummy because scum avoid contributing, but also towny because most newbie townies tend to lurk, but there is that exception for those who are known to do that ==". Jackal is no newbie, he is clearly a veteran and well aware of how bad lurking is for town. Again, this looks like a soft-defense to me. On March 20 2012 04:08 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote: We both think Jackal looks about as scummy as he typically does More soft defense from here (Klicky). At this point they have been very careful about Jackal. This is the meat of their reasoning for voting for him (Klicky) On March 20 2012 06:12 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote: Which is a fairly solid case, especially since Jackal flipped mafia. However note how it is hardly any different than anything they have been saying earlier. Namely that Jackal is useless. Note how it comes after sandroba, johnnywup, Dirkzor and xksc had voted for him. It also comes after sandroba outlined his reasoning here (Klicky). This is a bandwagon change of vote disguised as a case.Our reasons: He posts a little at the start but then He does very little to move discussion forward or even participate in it The closest thing to analysis he produced was this and he follows it with a vote after VE prods him. he pops back in to sheep the case on snarf with a vote, minutes after it was posted. This indicates to me that he is not looking for scum but rather a place to put his vote. Here we have a nice little attempt at outing the Cop (assuming we have one) (Klicky). Follow the cop only works if we have a medic, with two roleblocks claimed it is possible that instead of a medic we have a town roleblocker. Then comes a blatant bandwagon vote for slOosh (Klicky) and a useless put down of both VE and myself (Klicky). The only thing going for TIPD right now is their vote on Jackal. It was pretty early (5th vote) and most people who voted for him seemed to bandwagon sandroba. I could easily see them being bussing Jackal to avoid suspicion today. I am more comfortable with a slOosh lynch because of his unvote, but if he is getting let off (why?) than TIPD is our lynch target today. | ||
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On March 22 2012 09:48 Nemesis wrote: Just rereading prob's filter, I just have a quick question, you said you were in a company meeting??? So that means that you are working full time? I read through a bit about your other games, and it says there that you are attending class everyday and a student? I highly doubt that you have time for both, so which is it? I saw your EBWOP but for clarity's sake, yes I do both actually. I work full time and I study part time (by correspondence). In short I have no life. I play mafia when I am work because my job is boring as batshit. | ||
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On March 22 2012 09:56 VisceraEyes wrote: I guess sandroba is scum since only scum do this. I thought follow the cop was where the cop outs themselves with a check (any kind) and the medic saves them from then on? The cop survives as long as the medic does and can have his checks suggested by confirmed townies. It confirms another townie and makes mafia WIFOM about shooting the cop. There is a difference between giving up the cop for a confirmed red and just blindly outing themselves. The way I read it sandroba is being pretty specific about when we should follow the cop whilst TIPD is not. | ||
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Ok, I guess that part of my case is weak, but what about the rest of it? | ||
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On March 22 2012 10:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Well, interestingly I wasn't referring to the 'follow the cop' part of the quote, I was referring to the part of the quote where he only provides one name for a DT to check. You know, the scum-tell you just educated us about. So should we lynch sandroba? Him targetting me for a DT check had nothing to do with the whole 'follow the cop' thing, he provided one target for the DT. Something only scum do right? We vote-switchin or what? That part was wrong I guess. I don't like people pushing blues around, especially if they are specific about individuals. You have to admit it is an easy way for mafia to make sure they don't get checked. If sandroba had said that without being confirmed mason I would have pushed him on it as well. Does that invalidate my whole case? What is your position on TIPD? | ||
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On March 22 2012 10:09 VisceraEyes wrote: How's this for the rest of it. The meat of your case is his defense of Jackal. I defended Jackal for a fair amount of D1. How is that any different? What makes TIPD scum rather than me? You "Jackal is clearly town" TIPD "Jackal always lurks Day 1 and this is scummy" Big difference in my mind. | ||
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On March 20 2012 04:08 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote: We both think Jackal looks about as scummy as he typically does This is probably the most diplomatic, fence sitting postion I have read in a game of mafia. Note the use of the word "about" and "typically". The fact is Jackal's play didn't change since this post and the only that did cahnge was four other people voted for him. What does this even say? Is Jackal town or scum? | ||
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here (Klicky) they say this On March 20 2012 04:08 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote: We both think Jackal looks about as scummy as he typically does Which says what exactly? That Jackal typically looks scummy? How is that not a soft-defense? They are saying he looks scummy most of the time. His lurking is "typically" scummy so why should they vote for him. If they thought he was scummy they would have said "Jackal looks scummy", not that he typically looks scummy. That word changes the whole meaning of the sentence. Then four people vote for him and suddenly it becomes this (Klicky) On March 20 2012 06:12 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote: Our reasons: He posts a little at the start but then He does very little to move discussion forward or even participate in it The closest thing to analysis he produced was this and he follows it with a vote after VE prods him. he pops back in to sheep the case on snarf with a vote, minutes after it was posted. This indicates to me that he is not looking for scum but rather a place to put his vote. Which can be summed up as "Jackal has been useless". How is this not his "typically" scummy play? I'll tell you how, four other people have started a wagon that's how. | ||
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On March 22 2012 10:24 xsksc wrote: Ok Probulous, I don't like your case. First of all the contradictory statement about the cops was a bit silly. Then, the meat of the rest of it is his defending of Jackal, but didn't you JUST say this? Why does this not apply to TIPD? He defended Jackal, which is a large part of your case, then he voted for him. Is it not his actions that make him town? Did you not read my response to VE. There is a big difference between "Jackal is town" and "Jackal is typically scummy". One makes your position very very very clear and hard to argue against, the other has a fence up your ass. | ||
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On March 22 2012 10:32 VisceraEyes wrote: But no one had Probulous! That's what I just said! No one was on the Jackal wagon at this point, everyone who mattered was on Snarfs! Vote count says different unless I am reading it wrong. I will check manually | ||
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sandroba (Klicky) On March 20 2012 05:06 sandroba wrote: Alright I read through everyone's filter quite some times and I think we should indeed lynch Jackal. If anyone opposes please tell me why. He said previously he didn't have any opinion on snarfs when talking to VE, but he took 3 min to filter him this game, look at the filter I posted from the previous game, compare, think about it and come to the conclusion he is scum. I don't believe that is possible. ##Unvote ##Vote Jackal58 Then Johnnywup (Klicky) Dirkzor (Klicky) xksc (Klicky) Then comes TIPD's vote (Klicky) Then comes the explanantion (Klicky) So no, there were already votes on Jackal and you are severely misrepresenting the facts. | ||
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On March 22 2012 15:51 slOosh wrote: Nemesis' filter would argue with that. Trying to claim town cred when Nemesis was doing just the same. Fair point but you can't argue that I wasnt pushing VE. No posts in between. Just jumps from the first post to the second. The only new information from TIPD is He is willing to see TIPD shape up, sees the post where TIPD gives reason for inactivity/lurking and then decides that TIPD should be the next lynch. I think it is a distraction to get us away from talking about me and him as he does not like the direction it is heading - and it looks like he just went through his filter and made everything look bad. I mean take this: So what, a blatant bandwagon on someone who you are sure is scum is a scum tell? Nuh-uh. Town don't think like that. You are really stretching here. A bandwagon of any sort is scummy because you don't provide any reasoning for your vote. As for TIPD, I spent all morning defending myself from accusations I wasnt scum hunting. When I got the chance I took a look at those on the Jackal wagon and he jumped out at me. Do you have any issue with case itself? No only with my apparent change of mind. Well yes my mind did change because I actually read his filter carefully. What is your problem here? From phone | ||
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Reading and responding now | ||
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On March 23 2012 01:44 VisceraEyes wrote: As far as I can see, Probulous' reasoning for suspecting me is the following:
The thing about his read though is that it changed over the course of our interactions. Why? My reasoning was never sufficient for him. I never refuted is point about not wanting to kill johnny. My actions, strictly speaking, should still be inconsistent, and he should still be suspicious of me. But he proceeds to unvote after I say that I talk a lot. Before the Jackal flip. Actually I unvoted you because you admitted your read was bad. You had unvoted before I even got onto the thread so there was no way you were actually intending on getting him lynched. I knew this and the fact you didn't want to admit it made no sense to me. However it doesn't make a case, because the fact was you were not intending for him to get lynched. I mean I argued with you all day and no-one else voted for you. The case just wasn't strong enough so I looked elsewhere. Yet when pressured about the reasoning for pushing me yesterday as scum, this was Probulous' response. Then why the unvote before the flip? What about my defense was the most compelling Probulous? Because the whole paragraph before you explain how I was "confirmed" for you, you spent describing how I'm still suspicious according to your reasoning. If you thought I was scum before Jackal flipped, why did you unvote when you did? Why weren't you voting for me to be lynched with Nemesis?+ Show Spoiler + I think you were setting yourself up to do whatever you wanted today, according to town sentiment. I think you knew Jackal would flip scum, but just in case sandroba pushed for my lynch today (he's said he's suspicious of me several times this game,) you could jump on-board with no repercussions. ##Unvote: slOosh ##Vote: Probulous I've explained this already. What is the point of me placing my vote on someone who clearly no-one else thinks is scum in a majority lynch situation? Remember this was half through Day 1 there was plenty of time for other candidates to make themselves known. My read on you was more gut feel than anything, the only evidence I had against you was you faked a read and didnt want to admit it. It put you in my bad books but that isn't a case. Especially since you were not voting for him. Now if you had jumped off the Jackal wagon I would most certainly have kept my suspicions on you but when you compare Fake a read and wouldn't admit it to Helped nail a scum to the wall Especially when your suspicions were based on early Day 1 play, it makes sense to change your mind. | ||
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On March 22 2012 23:23 slOosh wrote: Based on your reads that both me and TIPD are scum, you are willing to believe all of the following: 1) As a scum team we decided that one of us should bandwagon Jackal and the other one should stay off and draw attention onto themselves 2) As a scum team, now that I am suspicious in D2 we decide that we should do the softest bus ever 3) As a scum team, I was willing to point out that TIPD was lurking on D1 and draw attention to him unnecessarily 1) Yes, that would make sense especially with the vote so close. A no-lynch was a real possibility and YOU tried to push that. 2)Yes, it makes perfect sense for scum to soft-bus each other. That way they can provide some weak reason for being on the bus if they can't stop it. Plus it allows them to distance themselves. 3) See point 2. You cannot say you were pushing TIPD as a case. You mentioned he had disappeared. That was it. More importantly you didn't create a case or vote for him. This was a soft bus in the hope that you would be the one to notice his absence before someone who would push the case. | ||
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On March 23 2012 06:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Not trying to be evasive or anything Probulous - just as you expect leeway from everyone else regarding your active times, I expect leeway from you in regard to forgiving times that I post things. That being said, everything I said in my case I've already said to you. You just skipped over it or didn't understand it. *shrug* It's just really annoying that I have to deal with this 1 hour before the lynch. I know that isn't your fault but suddenly your case makes sense to everyone when yesterday it didn't but yesterday you didn't feel like explaining to others. | ||
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On March 23 2012 06:23 johnnywup wrote: but your suspicions of early day 1 made it well into day 2 and thats a bit silly No, Day 2 I was pushing slOosh. | ||
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On March 23 2012 02:21 Snarfs wrote: Yea... okay. I'm kinda seeing it now. Another thing that I wish Probulous had time to respond to would be his reasoning for why johnnywup gets the confused noob treatment but Tobon is clearly scum day 1. Stupid timezones. Then there is the gap between his last statement on day 1 and his case on slOosh, which doesn't make sense with the called into office thing because the last statement on day 1 would have been around 4:30pm his time. I don't like voting people just for reasons such as that because everybody gets busy and that's not a good reason to lynch, but adding it with everything that everyone else is mentioning it seems more suspicious. I hope this isn't wrong. ##Unvote ##Vote Probulous I play this game when I am at work, I finish at 5pm. The next time I get on is when I get back into work THE NEXT DAY. This is not a reason to vote for me. Johnny responded completely differently to Tobon. Johnny replied quickly and openly. He admitted his mistakes and changed his read. This is a townie response. Tobon told me to fuck off and that he wasn't going to explain himself. This is not a townie response. | ||
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On March 23 2012 06:33 VisceraEyes wrote: So you're saying that if I'm scum and I make a bad case, all I have to do to absolve myself of suspicion is to admit that my case is bad? That's what you're saying? You expect me to believe that you thought I was scum with malicious intent and an agenda, and you just took for granted that I'm town because I admitted that my case 20 minutes into the game wasn't strong? That's what you're selling to me? If no-one else is even looking at you, how I am going to convince them? I spent ages trying to make it clear how contradictory you were being and no-one cared. Tell me this would I have been less suspicious if I just tunnelled you are day long and never looked elsewhere? | ||
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I want to find scum and if the only thing I have against you is a weak case which no-one else believes then maybe I am wrong. Either way there are other scum out there worth looking for. Especially Day 1 when it really unlikely that you have a perfect read. I second guessed myself because everyone else didn't believe me. There was no way you were getting lynched. It just wasn't happening and I couldn't strengthen my case because you were acting really townie. You chose voluntarily to unvote which meant you never intended on following through. My case didn't add up and so I unvoted once you had made it clear that you knew your case was bad. The evidence was there in thread if you slipped later in the game. Instead you go and hammer a scum and I have to admit to myself I was wrong. | ||
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On March 23 2012 06:37 johnnywup wrote: Tobon is town to me because of the near modkill situation...however bad of a sitation that was, to me it proved snarfs and tobon's innocence see Which happened whilst I was sleeping. People, can't you understand I was not here for the deadline? I wasn't able to catch up and change my vote because I got pulled into a stupid work meeting. My vote for Tobon happened before he made that mistake. Honestly everything here seems to come down me just not being online when shit happens. | ||
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On March 23 2012 06:45 johnnywup wrote: didn't he say that he planned on lynching me but the support wasn't there? :x He changed his mind. That much is clear. Otherwise he would have left his vote on you. I mean his logic that he is using to get me lynched is the same for him. He said he couldn't get you lynched so unvoted, but when I do that I am scum? VE looked scummy to me but my case wasn't going anywhere. Then he straight up said his case was weak. On March 19 2012 14:00 VisceraEyes wrote: Here's the truth Probulous. My case is't strong, and I've known it wasn't strong. When it became clear that the only contention I have with his play can be attributed to several others, I decided it was time to start refining my search. And that started with an unvote. Do I still think johnnywup is scum? Yes. If more people start voting for him, will I put my vote back on him? Yes. If a scummier candidate presents himself, will I vote for him? Yes. All of these problems you have about me with my vote and my unvote you had while you didn't have a vote placed yourself Probulous, and all of the questions I just asked myself should have already been asked if you were really trying to "reconcile" my actions. Yes, I talk a lot. What? You wanna fight about it? To me this is fair and reasonable. So I unvote and do the same, look for other possible candidates. | ||
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On March 23 2012 06:53 VisceraEyes wrote: Probulous - but that's just what you did voting Tobon sir - you voted for someone who clearly wasn't going to get lynched instead of consolidating with town. On a scum lynch, sir. Get your timings straight. All that shit happened in the middle of the night my time. Then I expect to get online before the lynch to check what has happened, and my stupid boss calls me into an objectives meeting. I wasn't able to change my vote. There was no consolidation on Jackal when I voted and when I left the the day before. | ||
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On March 23 2012 06:57 slOosh wrote: I'm going to be lynched because 2 people voted and went to sleep, and another just switched because of indecision and guilt that the other suspect is in a different timezone. Pfft. No, you are getting lynched because you are mafia. Townies fight to the end. There are still people around but you have given up. Don't give me timezone crap | ||
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>_> | ||
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WBG, that is exactly why I hate playing as scum. I don't see what role claims are possible. I think if I am to win as scum I need someone who is good to provide suggestions. I almost always going to get outed early because I post so much. We lost because by the time the Jacakal deadline was over there basically 5 confirmed townies Sandroba Jcarl VE Snares Tobon And we had lost Jacakal. When I got into the thread half through day 1 I knew were in a bad place. That was why I filled up the thread trying make people see how VE style was scummy. Anyway advice would be greatly appreciated. I still haven't won a game | ||
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Maybe I should have tunnelled you the whole game? | ||
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On March 25 2012 01:14 wherebugsgo wrote: this is very true. My issue is I had no idea what to do. It is all very well going out and be bold but you need a plan and I just couldn't think straight. You see the possibilities with claiming whilst I never see that stuff. I was always playing catchup and it hard to plan when everything happens before you can take action. It's demoralising when you try hard but you can't seem to find a way out. I think if I play on scum team where I am not throne having to think of the plan I might learn more. Right now I am just trying shit to see what works. I'll dig up skype (I must be illiterate) but even in that case, you have avenues. By killing jcarl, you confirm sandro and basically cement all his reads. At that point unless you sheep him (based on how day 1 went) you're fucked. Thus you have to convince sandro to kill townies, and it's only a feasible choice to shoot jcarl if sandro is horribly wrong about one or more of you. i.e. had you guys fakeclaimed off the jackal death and become "confirmed" (I can 100% guarantee that they would never think a scum claim+counterclaim of cop would ever in a million years happen) then killing jcarl might have been okay. However, that's still not optimal to simply shooting VE and leaving jcarl+sandro alive. Why? Because if you kill a scum day 1 so easily from sandro just saying "this guy is scum" and then day 2 they kill a townie, you can actually bullshit and shed doubt on sandro and jcarl. You can implant the idea that sandro+jcarl were mafia scumbuddies without ever explicitly even saying it. That possibility is shot to pieces as soon as a mason flips. The mafia team needs to realize that from a town perspective, no one is confirmed without flips. They can be "confirmed" but that's still as good as nothing (albeit plenty of noobs will be convinced anyway). Townies have a tendency to trust results over anything else. Thus, if you kill a scum day 1 and then townies 2 days in a row, chances are they'll no longer believe that one hero from day 1 is actually town. The problem of course was that none of you had the thread presence nor the foresight to know what to do. I know hindsight is 20/20 and everything, but when I told you guys not to give up I could tell already you had lost (after one lynch, nonetheless) because psychologically if you've given up you out yourself in the thread. You can't keep up a charade if you yourself don't believe in it. Thanks WBG. Ill store this for later use. | ||
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