EPTSubsequently, when TIPD came in and accused me and Probulous of "shitting up the thread", I knew he was scum. I mean, I couldn't have asked for better cooperation and openness from everyone, and everyone (pretty much) was succinctly answering any questions I had. The fact that TIPD thought we were "shitting up the thread" indicated to me that he wasn't looking at the thread the same way I was. He was looking for something different.
C9++ Mini Mafia - Page 54
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Subsequently, when TIPD came in and accused me and Probulous of "shitting up the thread", I knew he was scum. I mean, I couldn't have asked for better cooperation and openness from everyone, and everyone (pretty much) was succinctly answering any questions I had. The fact that TIPD thought we were "shitting up the thread" indicated to me that he wasn't looking at the thread the same way I was. He was looking for something different. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On March 24 2012 02:04 sandroba wrote: Rofl, nice work guys! ##Fistpound Interestingly, your single contribution (the Jackal quick-switch) might have been the most important thing in the game. Well done sir. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
VE, I think you opened both mine and Nemesis' eyes to a different style of town that, at least for myself, seemed quite intimidating. I honestly didn't know what to think of you for almost the entire first day and with sandroba throwing some doubt in there as well I think if more people had pushed against you on day 2 I would have been right there with them. That's actually where a lot of my indecision came for the vote on day 2 - being unsure of whose side you were on. Looking back I see that it was just an interesting style of town play that wasn't in my first game and I feel I definitely learned something here. I didn't think my vote on Nemesis day 1, nor my switch to Tobon would generate as much negative attention as they got. Both players had been FoSed by a few players by the time I came in and cast my vote. I guess it was more the way I went about it, which was entirely due to the circumstances of it being St. Patrick's day, followed by a day of being hungover, followed by being tired as hell the day after. I think that regardless of whether my claim should/shouldn't have been allowed, it was more powerful than it should have been. Once I realized that, I sent wbg a PM requesting a modkill without a flip because I knew that I shouldn't have been confirmed town at that point. It should have been up in the air whether I was actually town or scum still and I won't be doing that in future games, again, regardless of whether it's allowed or not. Overall though, sandroba and VE did a great job and basically showed a bunch of new town players how to destroy a poorly coordinated scum team. Lots of takeaways from this one for me. Thanks to both of you! | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
When I woke up, I sorta just had to roll with it xD | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
/stuck out of a mafia game for a while because of this I wanted to join GoT Mafia ): edit: I suppose Sum of all Fears signup is up... BTW: i wanna thank toad and WBG for being great hosts!! | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Early on I decided to go with a confident, authoritative tone because given my recent successful reads in Storm and [redacted], not only did I think my openness and fearlessness set an example for the newer townies, but it gave me genuine confidence in my reads. That's probably why I pushed johnnywup harder than I should have D1 and probably why a lot of townies might have been onboard with a VE lynch D2 if things had gone differently. The risk, however, was worth it. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
On March 24 2012 02:08 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Fistpound Interestingly, your single contribution (the Jackal quick-switch) might have been the most important thing in the game. Well done sir. Wow don't down play my contributions =P. Didn't I instigate the whole probulous switch? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=321159¤tpage=36#707 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=321159¤tpage=36#710 But yeah, you guys did most of the heavy lifting. ##Fistpound | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5241 Posts
props to sloosh for defending himself and switching the vote to probe. People might call your tunneling/focus a weakness, but imo it's a very important asset for the town player arsenal; if you know you're town, being able to convince people you are is a useful talent toi have. also the Probulous lose streak continues D: | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Also even more importantly what was your thought process on d2? According to your posts you were still suspicious of VE and you were suspicious of SloOsh/Prob. I could imagine you thinking it's a coinflip either way so might as well let VE decide to see what's going to happen and understand what's going on. That sounds so weird but that's the only thing I can come up with (and it makes sense given the position you were in), or you said that on purpose to tell mafia you're still suspicious of VE while you're not to make them shoot someone else because "hey, maybe we can get sandro want to lynch VE at some point in this game". Most hiliarious thing I've read in scum-QT, something along the lines lilke: "WHAT WE ROLEBLOCKED VE? I TOLD YOU HE WAS A VT, WHY DID YOU DO THAT?" When in reality it was town who rb'ed him and it was VE who was the medic :p About the atomsphere I've got got disagree. It worked out pretty nice but imo that's mostly because of Sandro showing up out of nowhere making one of the best calls I've ever seen. He basicly waltzed in the thread saying "sup guyses, we lynch Jackal today" without saying something else, while everyone else at this point has accused EVERYONE BUT MAFIA to be mafia and the only townread town had at that point was from VE about a mafia. I'm going to post a little more but that's the overall thoughts I had. It worked out nicely in the end but playing "normal" (for VE) would have been way easier and better for town. He would not have been roleblocked and most of the new towns had a problem understanding what was going on. Hell basicly everyone who hasn't seen VE's two most recent games had no idea what was going on in VE-Land and the reason he was confirmed was because of what Prob said: He lynched Jackal when he had all the reasons not to. Not because of how much he posted and I can't believe that people still take that as a "well he's got to be a confirmed towny". Did someone post the obs-QT ? Not much in there, mostly me a little bit from gonzaw and a little bit from prob. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
If Jackal had put ANY effort in, I would have fought his lynch D1. I was able to sway public opinion of Probulous when he wasn't around to combat this situation. We can talk all day about the thread atmosphere and who pulled through on the town end, but these were contributing factors to town's victory in this game. Not to downplay what we accomplished here...just sayin. We had help. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On March 24 2012 03:09 sandroba wrote: Wow don't down play my contributions =P. Didn't I instigate the whole probulous switch? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=321159¤tpage=36#707 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=321159¤tpage=36#710 But yeah, you guys did most of the heavy lifting. ##Fistpound No, that was an exaggeration obviously. You also commented on the Jackal-wagon after the flip as I requested and you generally cooperated passively late-game including joining the Probulous wagon which was pivotal. That was harsh, I was just annoyed seeing you posting in the other games. We coo'. | ||
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jaj22
United Kingdom1376 Posts
 Towards the end of day 1, there are no strong or popular cases. Sandroba calls a late switch on Jackal, who's not playing much scummier than usual. I'm not sure Sandroba thought it was much better than a 50/50 shot, given that he wanted an even later switch to Sloosh. Picks up five town votes not including his mason buddy and a terrible bus. Scum unravels from there. If Sandroba picks a townie, it's a totally different game. This was always a risk in the game with Sandroba as mason, but scum could have reduced the risk by pushing a case harder themselves. All three scum were pretty quiet. Sloosh's day 2 play was decent, but then his day 1 performance was bad and that got him into trouble in the first place. This idea of lurking day 1 because you're prone to tunnelling otherwise is not good. VE's new style freaked me out. Something about the way he toned down his language. Probably worked though, as he wasn't alienating as many people as usual despite the early noob-tunnelling. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On March 24 2012 04:15 jaj22 wrote: EchelonTee: Not really. More a victory that shows the positive side of sheeping, as long as you pick a near-confirmed town veteran to sheep Towards the end of day 1, there are no strong or popular cases. Sandroba calls a late switch on Jackal, who's not playing much scummier than usual. I'm not sure Sandroba thought it was much better than a 50/50 shot, given that he wanted an even later switch to Sloosh. Picks up five town votes not including his mason buddy and a terrible bus. Scum unravels from there. If Sandroba picks a townie, it's a totally different game. This was always a risk in the game with Sandroba as mason, but scum could have reduced the risk by pushing a case harder themselves. All three scum were pretty quiet. Sloosh's day 2 play was decent, but then his day 1 performance was bad and that got him into trouble in the first place. This idea of lurking day 1 because you're prone to tunnelling otherwise is not good. VE's new style freaked me out. Something about the way he toned down his language. Probably worked though, as he wasn't alienating as many people as usual despite the early noob-tunnelling. Is it any different than veterans who tend to lurk early to avoid night-kills? Or scum who lurk early to hide in lurkers? I didn't see it as bad as just a style of play thing. slOosh really pulled through with contributing in the end. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I think you should have been more active d1, pretty much every one out of your team. I say that all the time and it really is true: Day 1 is the easiest day for mafia to get massive amounts of towncred. Town has NO idea what they're doing, no idea who is mafia and you can be active and actually play pro-town without hurting your team at all. Just look back at d1 and look who people accused. Basicly EVERYONE was called scummy d1 at some point and VE thought Jackal is town (the only townread before the masonclaim). You guys could have done that as well without getting yourself caught. I really dislike those mafia players who are just lurking. Yes it can work out, especially if you got a bunch of lurkers in town as well to hide between but it's some kind of an all-in, There is no problem at all to post early on as mafia. Town has no idea what's going on, just post as if you roled VT and you're fine as long as you're rereading your posts before pressing "post" to check for scumslips; although I still think there's no such thing as a scumslip, at least when talking about people who aren't using english as their native tongue because you guys saw me "scumslip" several times as a townie as well, just because I posted something with german grammar after rearranging my post, so that happens as well and imo you have no idea how to figure out if it's a townie slip because english is not his 1st language or a mafia slip but whatever. Prob did good imo once Jackal died. His defence on d2 was decent, at least about the stuff he was asked and it made sense. Obviously him not doing a shit on d1 and suddenly starting to bust out like that after Jackal looked weird and it was hard to explain that he suddenly cared so much about the game when he did not 24 hours ago. Except for the fact that he did not do that d1 as well, he did a decent game imo. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 24 2012 04:18 VisceraEyes wrote: Is it any different than veterans who tend to lurk early to avoid night-kills? Or scum who lurk early to hide in lurkers? I didn't see it as bad as just a style of play thing. slOosh really pulled through with contributing in the end. well veterans do that for a reason. If you are foolish and you know you're going to have a list that is 99% dead on by the end of d3, be my guest and lurk the first few days to survive but in sloOshs case it made no sense. I don't think he is capable of doing that (no offence, I am neither) and I don't think he is capable to lead town yet, because people don't know if he's capable to do that or not. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On March 24 2012 04:19 Toadesstern wrote: yeah agree, I said that in the obs-QT as well: I really dislike those mafia players who are just lurking. Yes it can work out, especially if you got a bunch of lurkers in town as well to hide between but it's some kind of an all-in, There is no problem at all to post early on as mafia. Town has no idea what's going on, just post as if you roled VT and you're fine as long as you're rereading your posts before pressing "post" to check for scumslips; although I still think there's no such thing as a scumslip, at least when talking about people who aren't using english as their native tongue because you guys saw me "scumslip" several times as a townie as well, just because I posted something with german grammar after rearranging my post, so that happens as well and imo you have no idea how to figure out if it's a townie slip because english is not his 1st language or a mafia slip but whatever. Prob did good imo once Jackal died. His defence on d2 was decent, at least about the stuff he was asked and it made sense. Obviously him not doing a shit on d1 and suddenly starting to bust out like that after Jackal looked weird and it was hard to explain that he suddenly cared so much about the game when he did not 24 hours ago. Except for the fact that he did not do that d1 as well, he did a decent game imo. I can attest to this, in XLVIII there were a couple times where I was literally like "TOAD DAMNIT YOU JUST CLAIMED SCUM IN THE THREAD WHAT THE HOLY FUCK" Yeah, I go overboard sometimes. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On March 24 2012 04:22 Toadesstern wrote: well veterans do that for a reason. If you are foolish and you know you're going to have a list that is 99% dead on by the end of d3, be my guest and lurk the first few days to survive but in sloOshs case it made no sense. I don't think he is capable of doing that (no offence, I am neither) and I don't think he is capable to lead town yet, because people don't know if he's capable to do that or not. slOosh wasn't doing it to try and lead town later - his reasoning was different if I'm understanding correctly. He's trying to avoid tunneling D1 to cut down on the possibility of "confirmation bias" later on and look less scummy overall (lurking>tunneling). | ||
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