EPTLaya is more of a "you don't say" kind of sarcasm guy imo. Sure he has those "everyone is retarded" moments as well but those are not the funny moments!
C9++ Mini Mafia - Page 58
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Laya is more of a "you don't say" kind of sarcasm guy imo. Sure he has those "everyone is retarded" moments as well but those are not the funny moments! | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
Why did I push xsksc? Because he was one of the six guys left on my list. It was kinda tunnelling. My "read" wasn't really heartfelt. I just hadn't found anyone I found really scummy yet and I was sure that scum were on my list, so i just picked one guy and called him scum. Thats also why i could vote jackal without really thinking about it. I did not have the time I usually have to read the thread. I usually have 3 hours at work to just read the thread and filters and then post longer cases when I'm home. But weird workdays and social shit meant I had little time to the thread. I also think I relaxed more because sandro called me confirmed town :D I though about shooting sloosh N1 just because he seemed he would get lynched anyway. I decided against it because even if he was scum I wanted to see who would vote him and how the defence would be. I've been vig 2 times (and 1 time suicide bomber) and I always wait with my shot. I see no reason to shoot to early. If you're wrong and shoot a townie the best outcome is you confirm yourself. If you are right and shoot scum you take info away from the thread. All in all I think my scum reads were off but my deductive skills were on point. | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I said that they were obvious, as in "obviously town" to anybody reading. I didn't know what to say because i felt that most players looked town, I knew they were town and i expected the majority of others to see them as town. I was not sitting back because i felt like town weren't doing enough, i sat back because of (personal reasons) and an extended brain fart. I chose the actions on night one, because when i got to my computer nobody else was there to talk to and nobody had sent any in. I shot jcarl because he was next to confirmed town and in the qt prob wrote that he thought slOosh was a blue. I think bluelightz decided the n2 actions and RB'd tobon because Prob thought he was a medic. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On March 24 2012 17:23 wherebugsgo wrote: Mr. IcangetmodkilledafterIdie jcarlsoniv I shall wear this badge with honor. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On March 24 2012 22:07 layabout wrote: I never said that town were oblivious I said that they were obvious, as in "obviously town" to anybody reading. I didn't know what to say because i felt that most players looked town, I knew they were town and i expected the majority of others to see them as town. I was not sitting back because i felt like town weren't doing enough, i sat back because of (personal reasons) and an extended brain fart. I chose the actions on night one, because when i got to my computer nobody else was there to talk to and nobody had sent any in. I shot jcarl because he was next to confirmed town and in the qt prob wrote that he thought slOosh was a blue. I think bluelightz decided the n2 actions and RB'd tobon because Prob thought he was a medic. I'll dig up skype (I must be illiterate) but even in that case, you have avenues. By killing jcarl, you confirm sandro and basically cement all his reads. At that point unless you sheep him (based on how day 1 went) you're fucked. Thus you have to convince sandro to kill townies, and it's only a feasible choice to shoot jcarl if sandro is horribly wrong about one or more of you. i.e. had you guys fakeclaimed off the jackal death and become "confirmed" (I can 100% guarantee that they would never think a scum claim+counterclaim of cop would ever in a million years happen) then killing jcarl might have been okay. However, that's still not optimal to simply shooting VE and leaving jcarl+sandro alive. Why? Because if you kill a scum day 1 so easily from sandro just saying "this guy is scum" and then day 2 they kill a townie, you can actually bullshit and shed doubt on sandro and jcarl. You can implant the idea that sandro+jcarl were mafia scumbuddies without ever explicitly even saying it. That possibility is shot to pieces as soon as a mason flips. The mafia team needs to realize that from a town perspective, no one is confirmed without flips. They can be "confirmed" but that's still as good as nothing (albeit plenty of noobs will be convinced anyway). Townies have a tendency to trust results over anything else. Thus, if you kill a scum day 1 and then townies 2 days in a row, chances are they'll no longer believe that one hero from day 1 is actually town. The problem of course was that none of you had the thread presence nor the foresight to know what to do. I know hindsight is 20/20 and everything, but when I told you guys not to give up I could tell already you had lost (after one lynch, nonetheless) because psychologically if you've given up you out yourself in the thread. You can't keep up a charade if you yourself don't believe in it. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 25 2012 01:14 wherebugsgo wrote: had you guys fakeclaimed off the jackal death and become "confirmed" (I can 100% guarantee that they would never think a scum claim+counterclaim of cop would ever in a million years happen) then killing jcarl might have been okay. What should the counterclaim cop do after the scum cop flips? Play town with wrong reads? Since it is possible in a c9++ setting for multiple cops, how can you say that it makes sense that a (town) cop would insta-counterclaim? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
It's true that the players don't know that. However, when the lynch is secured and someone claims cop, they're far less likely to be a cop in a 13 player setup (with two masons who have already claimed) after someone counterclaims them. The counterclaim comes to ensure the lynch goes through and people don't back off: mafia wouldn't really want to counterclaim just to kill a cop because a 1 for 1 trade is highly in the favor of town. It's one of those plays that people would go "mafia would never do that, it's too ballsy" and they'd be correct, most TL mafia players would never even consider that. Then someone like Ace comes along and destroys that notion. Indeed, the icing on the cake is that after the GF claims cop, if there's actually a town cop there's no doubt he'll claim as well, and at that point he's just free roleblock material. In addition, it helps lay doubt on the mason pair claim because it makes it less likely from a balance perspective that masons exist (it would be almost too powerful) and players with a role (e.g. VE) would be susceptible to doubting the claims based on the number of possible blues. Lastly, you don't need correct reads to play the role of town cop. If you claim d1 you can simply claim roleblock every day after (and your team can mask the roleblock by simply roleblocking the kill target whenever necessary) | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I think a lot of scum players (myself included, to an extent) have the false notion that being wrong on a lynch is inherently bad and if you're wrong you'll be caught easily. I suppose you receive more attention if you've been lynching townies, but I don't think that it's necessarily true. Even townies can be wrong once, twice, or even three times. What ultimately matters are not actually the results necessarily but the manner and appearances that go into those results. Look at almost any game you want in which a townie died day 1 and you'll see plenty of people who were on the lynch but were never suspected (and for good reason.) once you can figure out why that's so, you can play scum without the fear of being wrong. | ||
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SamuelLJackson
223 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On March 25 2012 01:14 wherebugsgo wrote: this is very true. My issue is I had no idea what to do. It is all very well going out and be bold but you need a plan and I just couldn't think straight. You see the possibilities with claiming whilst I never see that stuff. I was always playing catchup and it hard to plan when everything happens before you can take action. It's demoralising when you try hard but you can't seem to find a way out. I think if I play on scum team where I am not throne having to think of the plan I might learn more. Right now I am just trying shit to see what works. I'll dig up skype (I must be illiterate) but even in that case, you have avenues. By killing jcarl, you confirm sandro and basically cement all his reads. At that point unless you sheep him (based on how day 1 went) you're fucked. Thus you have to convince sandro to kill townies, and it's only a feasible choice to shoot jcarl if sandro is horribly wrong about one or more of you. i.e. had you guys fakeclaimed off the jackal death and become "confirmed" (I can 100% guarantee that they would never think a scum claim+counterclaim of cop would ever in a million years happen) then killing jcarl might have been okay. However, that's still not optimal to simply shooting VE and leaving jcarl+sandro alive. Why? Because if you kill a scum day 1 so easily from sandro just saying "this guy is scum" and then day 2 they kill a townie, you can actually bullshit and shed doubt on sandro and jcarl. You can implant the idea that sandro+jcarl were mafia scumbuddies without ever explicitly even saying it. That possibility is shot to pieces as soon as a mason flips. The mafia team needs to realize that from a town perspective, no one is confirmed without flips. They can be "confirmed" but that's still as good as nothing (albeit plenty of noobs will be convinced anyway). Townies have a tendency to trust results over anything else. Thus, if you kill a scum day 1 and then townies 2 days in a row, chances are they'll no longer believe that one hero from day 1 is actually town. The problem of course was that none of you had the thread presence nor the foresight to know what to do. I know hindsight is 20/20 and everything, but when I told you guys not to give up I could tell already you had lost (after one lynch, nonetheless) because psychologically if you've given up you out yourself in the thread. You can't keep up a charade if you yourself don't believe in it. Thanks WBG. Ill store this for later use. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
triple lol  | ||
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