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I feel like it's kind of hard to judge individual play this game, especially for town. Town did incredible good and after the very nice Jackal lynch the game was basicly already won.
I mean the guys who are not considered to be vets sheeped the confirmed townie vet and that guy ended up being dead on right d1. It was the right decision to do that as a townie but it gives little to analyze about those people because they did little on their own.
I liked Nemesis a lot the first couple of hours (the first RL-day) and the fact that he was not blindly following without thinking this trough although he should have realized what was going on later on. That kind of asking questions really is a nice town treat although people gave him a hard time for not just accepting what was said in the thread.
VE did a good job d2 and d3.
Sandroba did a nice job given that he was kind of mod-confirmed and didn't have to prove his alignment.
That's btw the reason I really like the nooby mafia games. I'm not so sure it was a good game to learn from for townies.
I doubt the new guys understood why Sandroba wanted Jackal dead and he still hasn't explained his thoughts behind his d1 and d2 actions which still leaves me uncertain what his plan was d2 when he "sheeped" the rest like VE. I got a couple of guesses and I think those could be right but I'm not certain.
And at the same time everyone else was following Sandroba without doing a lot themselves, because he's Sandroba after all. Sure sometimes you need to know when to shut up and just sheep the good guys but it took away a lot of work from other people and that's what is going to improve your play naturally.
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On March 24 2012 15:04 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 14:58 VisceraEyes wrote:Toad, the only time I talked about medics was when I was issuing commands to ALL power roles, the only exception being when I decided to try to prod Sandroba for his thoughts by rescinding medic priviledges.  But yeah, I was trying to be overly NOT BLUE, I see what you're saying. when I said medic I also was referring to all that "protection to me" stuff and all. So maybe that caught my eye because I knew you were the medic idk but it really looked like a lot of medic talk to me. However, without knowing you're a medic talking about protection and stuff like that probably doesn't look so weird because after all you were quite vocal d1 and needed protection.
I for one was surprised to see the VE tuned out to be a medic. I personally thought he was a good mafia player, until all the mafia started dying...
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johnny you did a fine job. I grilled you early on for a dumb reason and you reacted splendidly. You were open and honest, answering every question you were asked and asking questions when you wanted information. I don't know if the votes just resonated with you, but you were willing to vote with town if you felt your candidate was weaker than the proposed candidate and it's part of the reason we won the game. You didn't OMGUS me when it would have been so easy for the reason I was voting for you.
Overall you did really well johnny, and I mean that. We did it! We smashed the scumteam together!
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honestly 90% of the newer townies on this forum would play a lot better if they just read the thread and stayed relatively active.
That was actually part of the purpose of making people read the OP before signing up. Obviously not everyone actually read the OP and the thread (while the game was going on) fully, but that's to be expected.
Johnny you played pretty well, especially for a newer player. I liked how active you were and how you established yourself as a townie relatively quickly. Most new players are too timid or lurkish, and then they make themselves look bad with horrible and convoluted logic right off the bat. If you can establish yourself as town on day 1 then you've started the process already really strongly, because all it comes down to at that point is getting more townies established and then forcing scum to do work to actually stay relevant (i.e. alive)
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On March 24 2012 15:30 Toadesstern wrote:
I feel like it's kind of hard to judge individual play this game, especially for town. Town did incredible good and after the very nice Jackal lynch the game was basicly already won.
I mean the guys who are not considered to be vets sheeped the confirmed townie vet and that guy ended up being dead on right d1. It was the right decision to do that as a townie but it gives little to analyze about those people because they did little on their own.
I liked Nemesis a lot the first couple of hours (the first RL-day) and the fact that he was not blindly following without thinking this trough although he should have realized what was going on later on. That kind of asking questions really is a nice town treat although people gave him a hard time for not just accepting what was said in the thread.
VE did a good job d2 and d3.
Sandroba did a nice job given that he was kind of mod-confirmed and didn't have to prove his alignment.
That's btw the reason I really like the nooby mafia games. I'm not so sure it was a good game to learn from for townies.
I doubt the new guys understood why Sandroba wanted Jackal dead and he still hasn't explained his thoughts behind his d1 and d2 actions which still leaves me uncertain what his plan was d2 when he "sheeped" the rest like VE. I got a couple of guesses and I think those could be right but I'm not certain.
And at the same time everyone else was following Sandroba without doing a lot themselves, because he's Sandroba after all. Sure sometimes you need to know when to shut up and just sheep the good guys but it took away a lot of work from other people and that's what is going to improve your play naturally.
I think you're putting too much stock in vote analysis Toad - the players you're saying weren't providing anything useful by sheeping were, in fact, providing something useful...they had spent all day and would spend all night establishing their towniness by other means. While it's true that they could have reached their own conclusion more often than they did, I think that by cooperating in the effort they contributed FAR more than voting for whoever THEIR best read was and allowing a no-lynch to happen.
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Yeah I agree with VE; this game was more about a process of elimination than anything else.
Probulous died d2 because he did some scummy shit and town favored that lynch over slOosh by the barest of margins. It could hve gone either way, really.
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On March 24 2012 15:38 DimmuKlok wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 15:04 Toadesstern wrote:On March 24 2012 14:58 VisceraEyes wrote:Toad, the only time I talked about medics was when I was issuing commands to ALL power roles, the only exception being when I decided to try to prod Sandroba for his thoughts by rescinding medic priviledges. But yeah, I was trying to be overly NOT BLUE, I see what you're saying. when I said medic I also was referring to all that "protection to me" stuff and all. So maybe that caught my eye because I knew you were the medic idk but it really looked like a lot of medic talk to me. However, without knowing you're a medic talking about protection and stuff like that probably doesn't look so weird because after all you were quite vocal d1 and needed protection. I for one was surprised to see the VE tuned out to be a medic. I personally thought he was a good mafia player, until all the mafia started dying...
Quote of the thread. Thank you Dimmu. Yes, I realize it wasn't a compliment.
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On March 24 2012 16:14 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 15:30 Toadesstern wrote:
I feel like it's kind of hard to judge individual play this game, especially for town. Town did incredible good and after the very nice Jackal lynch the game was basicly already won.
I mean the guys who are not considered to be vets sheeped the confirmed townie vet and that guy ended up being dead on right d1. It was the right decision to do that as a townie but it gives little to analyze about those people because they did little on their own.
I liked Nemesis a lot the first couple of hours (the first RL-day) and the fact that he was not blindly following without thinking this trough although he should have realized what was going on later on. That kind of asking questions really is a nice town treat although people gave him a hard time for not just accepting what was said in the thread.
VE did a good job d2 and d3.
Sandroba did a nice job given that he was kind of mod-confirmed and didn't have to prove his alignment.
That's btw the reason I really like the nooby mafia games. I'm not so sure it was a good game to learn from for townies.
I doubt the new guys understood why Sandroba wanted Jackal dead and he still hasn't explained his thoughts behind his d1 and d2 actions which still leaves me uncertain what his plan was d2 when he "sheeped" the rest like VE. I got a couple of guesses and I think those could be right but I'm not certain.
And at the same time everyone else was following Sandroba without doing a lot themselves, because he's Sandroba after all. Sure sometimes you need to know when to shut up and just sheep the good guys but it took away a lot of work from other people and that's what is going to improve your play naturally. I think you're putting too much stock in vote analysis Toad - the players you're saying weren't providing anything useful by sheeping were, in fact, providing something useful...they had spent all day and would spend all night establishing their towniness by other means. While it's true that they could have reached their own conclusion more often than they did, I think that by cooperating in the effort they contributed FAR more than voting for whoever THEIR best read was and allowing a no-lynch to happen.
yeah I agree, that's just not what I was trying to say. Basicly what you said is right for this game and it worked out incredible well. I just think that because of that "style" of how this game worked out it's not incredible well suited for people too learn how to play a good townie themselves or how to improve.
I talked about this with wbg a few days ago when we talked about newby-games and I said something along the lines "in nooby games it feels like everyone is holding hands to make everyone do something no matter if useful/right or not, everyone ends up putting something into the pot". While that may lead to town losing games because you're wrong a lot in your first games and try to get better I still feel that's the best way to learn how to properly do things yourself and get reads that are right.
This game was a great example of how a town can work together and win easily when everyone focuses and people step back for the best of town. And that's winning games but it's not improving your own play as much as doing something yourself would do imo. That was my point and the reason I find it really difficult to judge single player performances because again, Town as a team did incredible well this time.
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Yeah VE is pretty good. I'm proud he joined mafia after the noobie game he played for stupid reasons.
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@Toad I explained what went on with my head day1 man, was it still cryptic?
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On March 24 2012 16:42 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Yeah VE is pretty good. I'm proud he joined mafia after the noobie game he played for stupid reasons.
To be honest, I'm not really sure what you're saying here. Do you mean after my horrific showing in SNMMII?
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Yeah. You raged pretty hard after that. I'm glad you decided to stick to it. =)
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Dude, after you explained HOW I was playing poorly, the game took on a whole different level of depth.
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On March 24 2012 16:43 SamuelLJackson wrote:
@Toad I explained what went on with my head day1 man, was it still cryptic?
you're sandro? If yes I'm more interested in what your thoughts about VE/ the lynch d2 were :p
I'm still not sure if you did some things as a trap / to influence mafia or if they were your honest opinion (like being suspicious about VE).
You said something along the lines "I don't think mafia will vote against us today [speaking of d2]".
That statement was first of all right but secondly it opened a lot of oppertunites for mafia. With you saying that it could have been really easy for mafia to just vote against you people because you just said that's not going to happen. Unless of course that was on purpose because you wanted to see what's going to happen.
I still don't know if you were honestly suspicious of VE or if you tried to safe him from Mafia hits that way and because of that I still don't know if you "sheeped" his votes on prob instead of sloOsh because you thought prob was the better lynch yourself or because you wanted to see what's going to happen in VE-land if he's the one deciding the lynch, which would be great information if you truely thought he was suspicious.
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On March 24 2012 04:26 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Well I was pretty sure tobon and johnnywup were town, so I had to come in and say it. My early push on jackal was random, but what made it serious afterwards was the fact that he commented on snarfs meta which I found out of character and too fast from jackal. Then again it was a crap shot and fortunately it worked out. I was suspicious of VE at first because he was pushing for those 2 guys day1 then defended jackal, but he did switch to lynch jackal when he had all the reason not to. The only way I envisioned losing this game was if he made that kinda of bus to get infinity town cred, and that's why I asked for a check, since I would never push him without a guilty result. When VE claimed roleblocked and nemesis did that ridiculous breadcrumb I was pretty sure that either the 2 of them were town or 2 were scum.
Sloosh looked so townie day 2 that it was almost unbearable to see him lynched and as I commented the only thing that made me think probulous was town was the thing he noticed from TIPD and the fact that he was being reasonable. In the end his surge of activity when being focused and his lack when we were thinking of lynching sloosh is what made me switch to him.
So that's what went on in my head =P
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On March 24 2012 16:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
I think you're putting too much stock in vote analysis Toad - the players you're saying weren't providing anything useful by sheeping were, in fact, providing something useful...they had spent all day and would spend all night establishing their towniness by other means. While it's true that they could have reached their own conclusion more often than they did, I think that by cooperating in the effort they contributed FAR more than voting for whoever THEIR best read was and allowing a no-lynch to happen.
Hmm. In the post-game of TLXVIII, WBG gave me some pretty helpful analysis about my play. In that game I figured out toad was scum medic, but not a single person listened cause I wasn't vocal enough with my reads, and nobody really had a reason to believe I was town. Finding scum is useless if noone is gonna listen to you, so establishing yourself as town is super important.
So with that game in mind, I went into this game with the gameplan of making myself obv town, being open and posting a lot etc etc, so my opinnions would actually have some weight later on. I guess I didn't do too good a job, considering how suspicous slOosh and dirk found me. Oh well.
I think sheeping Sandroba was the obvious choice though, pushing my own read (slOosh) would have resulted in a no-lynch which would have been really dumb.
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On March 24 2012 16:55 SamuelLJackson wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 04:26 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Well I was pretty sure tobon and johnnywup were town, so I had to come in and say it. My early push on jackal was random, but what made it serious afterwards was the fact that he commented on snarfs meta which I found out of character and too fast from jackal. Then again it was a crap shot and fortunately it worked out. I was suspicious of VE at first because he was pushing for those 2 guys day1 then defended jackal, but he did switch to lynch jackal when he had all the reason not to. The only way I envisioned losing this game was if he made that kinda of bus to get infinity town cred, and that's why I asked for a check, since I would never push him without a guilty result. When VE claimed roleblocked and nemesis did that ridiculous breadcrumb I was pretty sure that either the 2 of them were town or 2 were scum.
Sloosh looked so townie day 2 that it was almost unbearable to see him lynched and as I commented the only thing that made me think probulous was town was the thing he noticed from TIPD and the fact that he was being reasonable. In the end his surge of activity when being focused and his lack when we were thinking of lynching sloosh is what made me switch to him.
So that's what went on in my head =P
yeah, I guess I didn't realize who you were in time and forgot about that post, sry :p
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On March 24 2012 16:56 xsksc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 24 2012 16:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
I think you're putting too much stock in vote analysis Toad - the players you're saying weren't providing anything useful by sheeping were, in fact, providing something useful...they had spent all day and would spend all night establishing their towniness by other means. While it's true that they could have reached their own conclusion more often than they did, I think that by cooperating in the effort they contributed FAR more than voting for whoever THEIR best read was and allowing a no-lynch to happen. Hmm. In the post-game of TLXVIII, WBG gave me some pretty helpful analysis about my play. In that game I figured out toad was scum medic, but not a single person listened cause I wasn't vocal enough with my reads, and nobody really had a reason to believe I was town. Finding scum is useless if noone is gonna listen to you, so establishing yourself as town is super important. So with that game in mind, I went into this game with the gameplan of making myself obv town, being open and posting a lot etc etc, so my opinnions would actually have some weight later on. I guess I didn't do too good a job, considering how suspicous slOosh and dirk found me. Oh well. I think sheeping Sandroba was the obvious choice though, pushing my own read (slOosh) would have resulted in a no-lynch which would have been really dumb.
oh! I don't remember if I mentioned it, but I really liked your play this game. You had a few posts that really stood out, particularly the ones about Jackal.
All of town had relatively good games this time around.
EDIT: I think slOosh had a heavy dose of OMGUS on you and I don't really remember paying attention to Dirk that much (don't remember why he suspected you)
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btw sandro = god
I was gonna do MVP awards, forgot to do that
Mr. 'Ifuckingfindscumfirstposteverygamenpnp" sandro SLJ baba
too pro for us all gg town MVP sandro
Mr. IplaydoctorlikeaVT VisceraEyes
gg nice blue play
Mr. IcangetmodkilledafterIdie jcarlsoniv
Mr. bestfirstgameever johnnywup
Mr. checkmyfriendhe'sGF Bluelightz
Mr. timetoplaytribes layabout
Mr. fuckyouslimyamphibian Jackal58
everyone else = gg no more awards sorry maybe next time!
lololol sorry for the half assed effort, I'm kinda tipsy
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No shit tipsy, everyone knows Palmar is Mr. Everyone'sRetardedButMe. layabout is Mr. FutileVenganceKill
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EPT
