EPTIt's ok, Marshy♥
Aperture Mafia
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
It's ok, Marshy♥ | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On March 16 2012 13:29 Lanaia wrote: I'm baking portal cookies and you don't get any because you're all far away. glhf I won't be around for a couple hours of after gamestart. Sorry! Send them through Fedex, the Post, or UPS. I live in Canada too, so it shouldn't cost that much to send. T.T | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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So is that actually the reason you shot him Drazerk? I don't see why you'd think that about VE as compared to anyone else, and why you'd shoot him without posting. | ||
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On March 17 2012 09:20 gonzaw wrote: The point is that Drazerk being Sleeper Agent, and planning shooting VE as a "ploy" doesn't make sense. He could still be from another scum faction, but in that case I don't think he would know VE was a sleeper agent (unless scum have a Day-DT as well, and got lucky). Okay, there have been only 6-7 people actively posting in this thread, and only 9-10 posted at all. The remaining 21-22 players need to post. If he was another scum faction, he'd just kill him based on reputation and meta. i.e. get rid of a strong player as fast as you can. On March 17 2012 09:22 Drazerk wrote: Kill wasn't compulsive It is usable at any time with some major limitations It's name is Shadows and Flames I need items and that is all I am telling you about my role I did it for three main reasons - A) take out someone who I thought would be too dangerous if they was scum / third party ( there was a few on this list but it came down to past experiences ) B) Prevents stupid fluff posts at the start of the game and causes discussion which in turn allows us to scum hunt efficiently C) I really wanted to use the ability before they got to do anything Are you claiming Neutral Balrog Survivor? :p I'm not sure how much discussion it really has created, more so than confusion. At least you hit scum, though, and his role had valuable info in it. If you had hit town, you would have thrown all of day 1 down the toilet. I'm not sure if I buy that reason, and I'm going to keep my eye on you. On an unrelated note, this game makes my brain hurt. What did Celtic Guardian do in the show again? I forget, I just remember Yugi used him all the time. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On March 17 2012 09:41 Drazerk wrote: They should claim the power instantly. Only issue is who ever gets it has a lot of time to prepare a fake ability so really it serves no purpose but to bend them to our knees and force them to do what we tell them to do as a collective town Depending on the ability they fake, they'll have to be able to reproduce the results, and we can assume the ability will probably be something unique, based on the game so far. So, if the person claims "It was an extra night-life!" Or something, we'll know they're probably lying. Also, it might be detectable to information roles. Would this extra ability be tacked onto a person's existing role? So, if a role cop checked them, would they see the ability, or just the role like normal? | ||
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On March 17 2012 14:57 sinani206 wrote: OK first of all you're scum. Second of all, you're contradicting yourself by saying that he gave decent reasoning. It was a good shot and he almost definitely wouldn't have shot that early as scum and then claimed. He claimed after the flip, and not before. He didn't say, "I'm shooting VE", and then shot VE. Instead, he shot VE, then claimed after the flip. That is, he claimed only after we knew he killed an anti-town player. If he's scum and VE flipped town, there's no way he'd have claimed. If he's town, maybe, maybe not. Either way, he claimed after the flip, and that makes the fact of claiming the shot a null tell. To call him confirmed town for claiming is either jumping to conclusions, or trying to push a scumbuddy's status. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On March 17 2012 15:14 gonzaw wrote: Cool, do you have anything to say regarding Drazerk's comments? Here: No, don't tell me if you are Day-DT and checked him or not, I don't care. Just tell me if he's bullshitting or not, or if you have no idea what he's talking about. Lanaina, sinani, Zephird, what do you think about Blazinghand? And what do you think about Midnight? Any other thoughts/reads from you guys are welcomed @Grack: Do you really need lemons? Do they have something to do with your role, or are you just having some fun? So what do you think about the other things Drazerk did? For instance his "Don't vote me" thing, or the "I know Vel is town" statement, or him giving you an item? Also, Wiggles, anything else to contribute? @Kenpachi: Please stop spamming All of his actions are riding off of cryptic hints about his role, and that instantly makes me distrust it, same as for Kenpachi's claim. He only says to vote for him, or it might hurt the town. Then he says I'm not the same as him, but this other guy is the same as him or a DT, but we don't even know what he is, or what it means to be the same as him. Voting for the person he wants, only works if you actually believe everything he's saying for sure, and completely trust him. I don't, so I'm going to make my own read and vote for a person I think is town, and who I think is capable enough to use a power role without blowing up the town. I haven't received any notifications about him giving me an item. Can you link where he said that? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On March 17 2012 15:28 gonzaw wrote: Mmm, Just one more thing I noticed from the OP: It says it reveals the role, but doesn't say it reveals the alignment. So VE could have been RED, but his alignment didn't flip. I guess we can only confirm this with the next flips though. The OP shows the role PMs containing faction color, so it just means that VE was black. We don't actually know if there's reds, or italics, or whatever other factions might exist in the game. We can assume there's another scum team though, no matter the color, simply because a sleeper cell team of four people is pretty underpowered in a big themed game like this. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On March 17 2012 22:12 Drazerk wrote: I claim balrog I have to get 5 items to win the game and kill Gandalf When my win condition is met I leave the game. Old win condition was to just survive to the end with town only My attack is unblockable but I cannot discuss the limitations attached to it while my DT item can be used twice a cycle at day and night but it will only tell me if they are like me. There are three other people like me and I am certain that vel is one of them especially since he knew the name of my role ( I know the names of the other roles so I am presuming they do as well ) I also presume I am going to die anyhow so bring it on Gandalf I have a bomb ready and waiting. So did you not end up realizing that you're a third party who's playing a multi-player assassin game, or what? Your claim makes things a lot easier for town, though. http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Assassin_in_the_Palace You say there are three other people like you, so that implies that there's 3 other third parties we have to kill, or that there's three other people trying to kill Gandalf. Either way, thanks for the info. On March 18 2012 00:20 Hassybaby wrote: I agree, but I don't think a lynch should be used. I'd like to leave that for night vigs and shizzle On March 17 2012 22:33 Drazerk wrote: Hunt scum not third party. You gain nothing from my death. This is wrong. This is a game where we are not sure what roles are present, or how much KP we are facing. For all we know, the entire town can blow up by the end of day 2. Drazerk has already shown that he is chaotic, first with his kill, and then with his inconsistent claims. Anyone who thinks we can actually control his shots isn't thinking very far ahead. First, there's the likely possibility he doesn't listen to us, if he thinks he has a shot at Gandalf, and there's the possibility that if he gets any KP items he will use them to shoot into his Gandalf targets. Secondly, we don't want to have him shoot every day, unless there's some way to actually have a near-confirmed scum target. Our goal as town right now, should be to remove as much anti-town KP from the game as we can, since as the game goes longer our chances at winning increase, should enough townies survive. Third, one of the strengths of town vigi's is the ability to make independent KP choices where scum can't actually change the outcome. If we direct him in the thread, scum can easily influence where the KP goes, especially using some kind of vote system. However, if we don't use a vote system, Draz can just choose a target raised that he thinks is likely to be Gandalf, and just shoot him, claiming that he followed the thread's direction. As well, look at how Day 1 has turned out so far. Near the entirety of the day has been spent talking about a third party, and his role. If we leave him in the game, the same thing is going to happen every day. He is a third-party, not town aligned, and his win condition isn't parallel to ours. He holds anti-town KP, and wants to hold many of our items. Scum won't give him any items, so any that he receives will come from town, taking them from our hands, and giving them to a third party. Don't give him any items, we're lynching him. ##Vote: Drazerk On March 18 2012 01:23 Jayjay54 wrote: he have claimed just because of that. if you believe him, then his wincon has changed. so he might have thought he was no threat for town THEN. If we find a better lynch, I am fine with moving on. However, this lynch is at worst a third party lynch. We won't lose a townie. Before we randomly lynch a player, lynching drazerk is by far the better option. And that doesn't even take into account that there's a fair chance he's lying. I still think we should give Wheatley to one of the newer players (mav, david or whatever), since they might not be as good in abusing OP powers, yet (no offense, bros! seriously!). That is, if they're willing to be transparent and to let town guide their actions. If they get insane, it will be probably easier for town to recognize it, while vet-players will annihilate town. This is fallacious reasoning. Trying to give Wheatley to a weaker player because they can't abuse it, doesn't really work, except in the case that the person is independent third-party, if sleeper cells work the same way as normal. If the person is scum, then his scum-buddies can direct him with how to use it. If he's a cell member, there's probably a cell leader who can send him a message to direct him in his action use, like in the sleeper cell games. Choosing a weak player doesn't mitigate against scum getting the role. Instead, it's much better to just choose a player we think is likely to be town, whether or not they're new or inexperienced or not, and help direct them in their role. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On March 18 2012 03:26 MidnightGladius wrote: @gonzaw: Kenpachi's also been scattering the town's concentration with his glados voting and the nonsensical party with blazinghand. I don't like that at all, but I take it that this is what he usually does, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. If he doesn't actually start contributing soon, or continues to attempt to derail, then that could quickly change. Wiggles is making decent sense to me, but I wish he'd read a bit more carefully. He's already slipped up once in terms of comprehension (thinking Drazerk had given an item instead of using it). His latest analysis is solid. That wasn't me, that was Gonzaw. Ironic. Can someone explain to me why people want to vote in Velinath as Wheatley? He was the target initially proposed by Drazerk, and that's where the votes started, but I have no idea why they continued. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Foolishness is a poet, and don't we all know it. Speaking in rhyme, guilty of no crime, Man of smarts and wit. | ||
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Thoughts? | ||
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On March 18 2012 04:28 Lanaia wrote: Not lynching drazerk, but I will not trust him. At another point, I'd be fine with it. In the past few pages (since I went to bed at least), I've not liked Velinath. The way he's reinforcing that he's town, not third party is definitely rubbing me the wrong way. I do agree with Foolishness in regards to his vote on dirk hardpec or whatever his name is. His only post is fluff. I don't even understand why he felt compelled to say it. The wording feels incredibly forced. "In sense, it makes no sense from a balance standpoint to create a third party in a game, and then make it possible for us to leave that third party alive, might as well be town then." I've been in a group similar to that in a different game, but we only had to live until Cthulhu arrived (however, we were all shot by then), so I'm sure it's not impossible. Why doesn't it make sense from a balance point, dirk hardpec? After he replies, I'll make my decision of whether or not I vote him. I'd like to hear from Cyber. He hasn't posted since his /in. The people I'd like to elect aren't even running. I guess this means I should be electing blazinghand because I'd changed my mind about velinath. To clarify: Drazerk is not currently of the same faction as VE was, right? I just need to make sure I understand this. Who do you want to elect? If we find someone who's probably town, I have no problem dragging them kicking and screaming into the Wheatley spot. Chances are pretty high that some of the people asking for it are scum who want powers, so we should be looking at them closely after today. Foolishness, why do you want to vote in Velinath? | ||
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I'm going to throw my election vote on Velinath, because between him and BH, he seems more transparent and townie to me. I think Drazerk's lying about someone contacting him, and then using a DT item on him. Draz already said he checked me, so it wasn't his own check, either. Also, someone should check Kenpachi tonight. | ||
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On March 19 2012 03:05 Zephirdd wrote: hmmm if you do that you are banned. Also I don't buy that you communicated with the cell leader. IF you actually did that, then both you and him broke rules. (from OP) I assume that this include non-forum private messaging methods. I'm not sure if this includes scums can't PM eachother, but I'll assume that the main scum(the red scum faction) should have PMs allowed. I'd appreciate if mods clarified if PMs may be allowed depending on your role So, if you were telling the truth, you both should have to be modkilled. You are alive, and mods already posted. Therefore, that's a mod-confirmed lie. Unless, of course, they decide to snipe the cell agent after your flip. That just means that you can't just PM whoever you want as whoever. For example, that would say the same thing in a game with masons. That's just a general rule in other words, and things like role overact it. I would also think some items would give PM capabilities. | ||
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On March 19 2012 04:38 Kenpachi wrote: Foolishness has a fakeclaim or posting restriction (which might be part of his fakeclaim). I received a fakeclaim at my disposal but i dont want to use it cause its too much work. Why is Kitaman mafia? well, that opening post is fucking terrible. lots of ambiguous questions, mindless responses, and Drazerk mentioned, He said NOTHING. seriously, kill him someone Why do you have a fakeclaim? You third party or scum? | ||
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On March 19 2012 05:55 Drazerk wrote: Oh cool I have majority never mind I am a village idiot with a day vig shot Cheers for playing Good for you, now you're out of the way.  | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On March 19 2012 08:10 Grackaroni wrote: Well he had a DT ability that can be used during day that checks if a player is a being of great power. He told us you were the planar dragon. I guess he could have lied, he has no more reason to help town than he does to mess with it. On March 17 2012 10:23 Drazerk wrote: Wiggles is someone who should never win the election for several reasons 1) If he is scum we are screwed and there is no coming back 2) If he is town and it turns bad we are also screwed 3) I used an item on Wiggles and know he is not the same as me which makes me hesitant for anyone to vote for him without an excellent argument @gonzaw: I'm not sure what exactly you want me to do or say in response to you. If you want me to spew all my reads into the thread, I'm not going to do so. When I want to push a scum in the thread, I'll write a case and post it. I don't like to share town reads either, unless it's a person under discussion/scrutiny, or there's a specific reason to, i.e. they're up for a lynch, someone's saying to shoot them, etc.. For example, I think Kenpachi's a great target for a check. He's being obscure about his role, and he gave an item to a self-claimed third party, who was very likely to be lynched. That he did so, makes me think he's playing more towards an alternate win condition, than actually trying to win with town. | ||
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On March 19 2012 09:00 gonzaw wrote: Zephird: I'm waiting for your responses as well. Kenpachi: Can you give reasoning behind those reads? You haven't done anything like that by now. You haven't written any "cases" yet. If your answer to that is "Well, I don't think anyone is scum for now", then why don't you pressure people and try to find them? Will you just sit back and do nothing until someone does something scummy enough for you to notice? That's not how it works. There are some things I want you to do, for instance tell me what you think about Lanaia and Zephird, with reasoning and thought process behind it. Why could you create a bucket of water? What specific thing about your Role PM tells you you could create such an object? Stop being vague Velinath, you promised to be transparent about this, so stop wasting our time, just spill everything out from the get go. What resource? Again, spill it out. On Zephird: I don't like his early posting, as it mostly consists of spam and commentary. After that, though, it actually picks up a fair bit. He puts pressure on Drazerk, and actively participates in relevant discussion. He seems like he's playing freely, as he isn't scared to share his reads when relevant, and changes his mind a few times. He's also been consistent on his stance on directing blues. Overall, a slight town-read. On Lanaia: Null. I always seem to have trouble reading her, because her play never seems to stand out a lot to me. In this game, she's been posting a lot of reads, but without much reasoning, which makes them pretty throwaway. Her other posts are based around the game mechanics, which doesn't reflect much on alignment. I'll have to watch her more on day 2, to see if she actually starts to provide reasoning, or just continues only giving alignment reads. Could be a good night 2 shot. | ||
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On March 20 2012 08:09 Jayjay54 wrote: you misunderstood. he was killed by him. I also shot Sinani who is still alive. so he's either bulletproof (third party with item or whatever) or he was protected or he is a vet. I don't really see a reason for him to have been protected. Let's see what he claims. | ||
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I want to ask, Kita, have you been reading the thread? Drazerk said that he used an item on me that said I'm not third party, which actually turned out to be one of his role abilities. So, I wouldn't fight against it, because it says I'm not third party, not that I'm scum. Next, my reads on a lot of people right now aren't very strong, simply due to the nature of the game. For each person, I need to decide whether they're town, third-party, Sleeper Cell, or Mafia (who I assume exist). People can get away with a lot of weird things in this game, just because of the confusion inherent to it. Also, that post was made after day 1, so a lot of my reads will still be mixed. I list the good and the bad things with people, because they are there. Then you have to make a judgement call of whether the bad things make them scummy, or the good things make them town. Using the Gonzaw example, I said I had a town read on him, but he was spamming the thread, which is bad. Spamming the thread doesn't make him mafia, though, so I'm not sure why you try to make it seem that way. Anyways, I'm going to read over the thread some more, and hopefully decide who I want to lynch. | ||
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On March 21 2012 06:47 kitaman27 wrote: But that's not how the series of events unfolded. Draz didn't claim third party until later in the game. At that point, we only knew that he shot VE and that his kill flavor could possibly point to the barlog. Either way, if you're town and Draz is posting that he has used an item to determine that he has a different alignment than you, why does it take 24 hours for you to be voting for him? I haven't seen you call anyone scum yet, which is strange 100 hours into the game. I didn't think he was town. He also claimed to have checked Velinath as either the same as him or a DT, which made no sense. So, I didn't see the need of arguing against it, when it's an unconfirmed parity check from someone who's probably not town. | ||
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On March 21 2012 14:51 kitaman27 wrote: Nothing?  Does it take three days? My comp. sci. assignment is taking a lot longer than I though it would. Basically, reading through filters, I think ghost_403 is scum. He started the silliness of saying Wheatley would betray the town, and he flip-flopped weirdly on both his reads of Drazerk and Dirk, when the lynch turned out to be going onto Draz and not Dirk. Looks like he wanted to just blend in. I'm sorry, but I just don't have the time to put into the game tonight, or post a more thorough case. | ||
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The first thing I notice right off the bat, is that he's the one who started the silliness about Wheatley changing win conditions. On March 18 2012 00:55 ghost_403 wrote: Just my thoughts on the Wheatly role: I'm not ever going to trust Wheatly. IIRC, Wheatly screws over Chell in Portal 2 by taking control of Aperture, despite his best intentions. I can see this going the same way. Wheatly begins the game by helping the town, then gets a new wincon where he has to kill us all or something. The reason this is scummy, is because it has no basis in the game, and is completely based on external flavour. So, it serves only to: 1)Spread distrust 2)Cause pointless discussion and distract from the game 3) Be pointless Then he flip-flops on his reads. I'll try to post more when I get back. =/ | ||
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On March 22 2012 01:48 kitaman27 wrote: I also dislike ghost_403 as a lynch candidate today. I don't think there is a very good case at all for him to be considered. How do you know the case if bad, when I haven't even posted it? :p I'll write it up, but with only an hour and a half left in the day, I'll probably switch my vote to one of the major candidates. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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After Day 1, Dirk's been posting pretty openly, and has actually been sharing reads of his own volition. This reflects well on him for now, and I don't feel good killing him today. If he doesn't continue following through with his reads on day 3 though, he could be a good choice for a day 4 lynch or night 3 shot. It's the same thing with a lot of players who open strongly, but don't actually push their scum reads on subsequent days. Just watch. If he's consistent, he's most likely town. Right now, I'm leaning town on him. The game I remember best from playing or observing Bluelightz, is Purgatory Mafia. In that game, I pegged him down as town pretty early in the game, simply due to the attitude and tone of his posts. I'm not getting the same feeling in this game. (For reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=235418). In that game, his reasons for his reads were actually based on his own reasoning, and for game reasons. In this game, the reasons for a lot of his reads are nonsensical, or attributed to the reasoning of others. As well, I feel he is not being as open with what he is posting, which seems to indicate that something is off about him. So, overall, I think Bluelightz is the better lynch between the two. ##Vote: Bluelightz | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On March 22 2012 07:39 Grackaroni wrote: @Wiggles : you do realize that Dirk = Palmar right? Yes, and? On March 21 2012 22:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I'll pretend I didn't see that if you don't call yourself confirmed town. I'll see if I can post my complete thoughts on ghost_403 before I go to school. I'm going to treat him like Dirk, and then only really use meta if it helps my read, or Dirk starts wanting to be Palmar. From how I've read, it looks like he wants to try a different way of playing, so I'm not going to take that away. | ||
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Friend? | ||
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Someone said that he actually wasn't the first one to bring up the possible changing wheatley win condition, but my point still stands, and even changes a bit now. + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2012 00:55 ghost_403 wrote: Just my thoughts on the Wheatly role: I'm not ever going to trust Wheatly. IIRC, Wheatly screws over Chell in Portal 2 by taking control of Aperture, despite his best intentions. I can see this going the same way. Wheatly begins the game by helping the town, then gets a new wincon where he has to kill us all or something. His post was phrased in a way that I thought he was the first one to bring it up. However, it turns out he wasn't, so then this post still looks weird. It's still baseless, and still useless, but the thought isn't even original now. This post contributes nothing to the discussion, and it still spreads distrust of the Wheatley role, before we even have any idea what it does. As well, I don't think the discussion on Wheatley changing victory conditions has any merit. We can't be 100% sure that Velinath was town to begin with, no matter how much we think so, so we need to continue scrutinizing him as the game goes on. So, him changing his victory condition, is no different than him being scum maintaining a well made facade, that only crumbles on later days. The point is that he only shows his scummy colours later into the game. The situations are analogous, so the Wheatley conjecture was a complete waste of time. Discussing it was just making posts that look like they're contributing, while they provide nothing at all. Next, is the flip-flopping on Drazerk and Dirk. Normally, I don't consider flip-flopping to be a scum-tell, and being on the Draz lynch doesn't make someone town, the same as being off it doesn't make them scum (depending on the reasons given). However, the way ghost_403 flip-flopped makes it look like he was worried about blending in to the crowd. He makes these posts, saying that he doesn't want to lynch Draz, but instead Dirk: + Show Spoiler + On March 18 2012 00:24 ghost_403 wrote: Eventually. As of right now, he's no danger to the town. His roleclaim has told us that we don't really need to listen to him, and now that we have his death-flavor/whatever, we'll know when he kills people. If he starts killing townies, we lynch him. Otherwise, I think we should leave him alone and concentrate on finding people who are a threat to the town. On March 18 2012 01:13 ghost_403 wrote: Drazerk never had to claim. Clearly, he didn't think that he was a threat to the town, at least for the time being. Focusing on lynching him out of the game right now is counterproductive. Today, we need to be more concerned about electing a Wheatly and finding a good lynch, rather than focus on some neutered third party. ##elect velinath because he seems to understand this. On March 18 2012 01:30 ghost_403 wrote: @JJ - I agree with you that Drazerk is a safe lynch, but I don't think it's optimal town play. Saying 16hrs into Day 1 that we should lynch a third party because it's safe discourages discussion about possible lynches. Because of that, even though you are right, I am going to say that I will not vote Drazerk today. Eventually, he will have to go, but as for right now we need to focus on scum. As for your second point that a newb would be a safer Wheatly vote, I don't know how I feel about that. That just screams to the scum to push a newb on their team for the position, which makes then as dangerous, maybe even more dangerous, as a veteran. Right now, Velinath seems like a better option to me, but I reserve the right to change my vote is someone better comes to light. On March 18 2012 22:06 ghost_403 wrote: I still don't think Drazerk is scum. By claiming his role, he's put a timer on himself. It's not a question of if we'll lynch him, it's a question of when. He's got until then to kill Gandalf and get out of the game. In addition, he's removed his ability to persuade the town on any votes. We're not going to listen to him. At best, he's third party. Drazerk is a safe lynch. Let's leave him alone for the time being, and focus on finding scum. I'm going to take a minute or two to read up and weigh in on a Dirk lynch. On March 18 2012 22:13 ghost_403 wrote: I think we could do a lot worse than lynching Dirk. He's either a lazy/useless townie or scum. I'm running out the door at the moment, so I'll put some more thought into it when I get back. These posts are all consistent. Also, notice that he's saying Dirk is the better lynch, even after he knows that Drazerk is third-party. There's nothing wrong with this intrinsically, but what follows makes ghost_403 look pretty scummy to me. After the lynch looks like it's pretty set on Drazerk, and Draz begins his rampage through the thread, this is when ghost_403 decides to hop onto the wagon: On March 19 2012 01:38 ghost_403 wrote: Sigh. I try to lynch insane play, and it turns out he's a townie. (last game) I try not to lynch insane play, and he admits to being scum. Just can't win. ##vote: Drazerk And he turns around on his read on Dirk: On March 20 2012 05:59 ghost_403 wrote: A quick note for Nisani and Maverick: There was no good reason for me to post on why I though Dirk was scummy when I got back. When I returned to the thread, Draz had gone off the deepend, and needed to go IMO. When Draz was a neutral third party, I didn't see the point in offing him; he's just going to sit around and ignore us for the most part. Then, he tells us that he's starting to help the sleeper cell. That's when he changed from neutral to dangerous, and that's why I switched a vote. As far as my thoughts on Dirk: not impressed, but not ready to lynch him. A few of his posts have been aggressive and poorly thought out. For example, this one, where he says we should lynch anyone who was not immediately on board the Draz lynch. That's terrible play for a lot of reasons. Right now, I'm leaning stupid aggressive townie as opposed to scum, but I'm willing to change my positions if he does something really stupid. If he got vig'd, I'd say no big loss. ghost_403 was still ready to lynch someone else instead of Drazerk, even after he claimed third party, and never gave any indication that he thought that Dirk was a bad lynch, or that Drazerk was a better one until these posts. Interesting to note, is the timing of these posts. These come only after many people all decided to hop onto the Drazerk lynch, and others, notably active posters like JayJay and Gonzaw, said in the last few pages that they didn't like the Dirk lynch. More than anything, this looks like someone who was trying to push a view-point, but seeing that not many people supported it, and others actively thought the opposite, he decided to jump ship and flip-flop in order to hide in the crowd. There is no intermediate reasoning for either of his changes in reads, only a complete turnaround on both of them, that seems to come out of thin air. This tells me that ghost_403 is conscious of sticking out, and wants to remain hidden, which suggests that he is scum, and even further, likely third-party or sleeper cell. That's my reasoning for thinking that ghost_403 is scum, and was a good lynch for day 2. Like I said, I was busy, so I didn't have time to write this all up yesterday, and only had something like 15-20 minutes of free time this morning. | ||
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They should claim now if they are a PGO. I actually find it pretty scummy that they didn't claim before-hand either. In a set-up that's going to have a high concentration of blues, not claiming that you'll kill everyone who visits you is just asking for a lot of people (including multiple townies) to die, especially if you're someone who's high profile, like Dirk or Velinath after he was elected. | ||
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On March 23 2012 11:29 Velinath wrote: sorry ghost, I guess I missed it. @Wiggles I already stated that I have no powers that activate on someone visiting me, 1 or 2 pages ago. I assume that's what a PGO is. Ok, then I want to see what Dirk claims. I can't really see anyone besides one of you two attracting 3 people on night 1, so if he claims he doesn't kill visitors, then we most likely have a liar between the two of you. If anyone else has ideas for what might have killed them, I'm all ears. For reference: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Paranoid_Gun_Owner | ||
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On March 23 2012 12:54 MidnightGladius wrote: If Maverick watched Dirk last night and lived, then Dirk can't be a PGO. Ok, so Nisani says he watched Velinath, for some reason I thought he tracked. That rules out Velinath being a PGO. Maverick, did you watch Dirk, or did you track Willz? You didn't specify in your post. If you watched Dirk, then that rules out a PGO, though I'm not sure what other roles would kill multiple people like that. | ||
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On March 24 2012 00:52 ghost_403 wrote: I want to hear Mr. Wiggles weigh in on the Ghost/Nisani situation we have going on here. He posts a case against me at the beginning of Night 2. I respond to his case. A bit later, Nisani chimes in calling me scum (page 80 for reference). Next page, Wiggles makes some general posts regarding watching/following whatever, and ignores my rebuttal and all of the Nisani/Ghost back and forth on the previous page. Strange, considering how he's been positive I'm scum since Day 2. (If anyone's interested, I can reference posts, but I'm too lazy to do this right now. Ask and you shall receive.) I feel better about you now after your response. Unlike your earlier posts, they actually give a reason for your massive swings in opinion. While I don't agree with your reasoning, you actually showed you had reasoning, and your actions are consistent with it. So, this explains the giant discontinuity for me. Also, you don't need to be more verbose in your posts, you just need to actually show continuity in your thoughts and explain why you've changed your mind if it's on something significant. Nisani looks pretty bad to me, but I think Sinani looks worse. I'm still trying to decide though, but that's how I'm leaning. These two posts just look scummy as hell: On March 20 2012 12:35 sinani206 wrote: Hmmmm.... Jayjay, is your kill unblockable? On March 21 2012 08:56 sinani206 wrote: Jayjay, now that you're here, can you answer my question? The two scenarios I have in mind, are that sinani is either telling the truth, and is town, or he's scum on a team with some kind of protection, or just scum and telling the truth about his item. If he's town: Why would you ask this question? The only reason would be if you had important info to drop on the thread if the shot was unblockable and you were going to die. The shot's already coming to you either way, so when it hits, you'll either live or you won't. From what I can see, JayJay never actually answers his question. However, Sinani doesn't drop any info on the thread. He doesn't claim results, he doesn't give all his reads, he doesn't do anything at all, but act like the shot never existed. This doesn't' make sense from a town perspective, especially after you ask if the shot will actually kill you or not, which means you're concerned about your death, and have some reason for needing to know. If he's scum: This question makes a lot more sense from a scum perspective given his follow-up. If scum have a medic, he wants to know if he can block the shot or not, because if it's unblockable there's no point using their protect there. If he just has an extra life as any kind of scum, he wants to know, because it could change how he acts, if he's trying to achieve a specific win condition, or simply so his team can plan around whether he lives or not. In either of these scenarios, his follow-up makes sense. There's no reason for him to give any sort of information to the thread, because it doesn't further his win condition. He just wants to know so he can either get his team to protect him, or plan around how much time he has alive. Either way, it's based off selfish reasons, and not reasons that have the best in mind for town. I see this as pretty damning. | ||
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On March 24 2012 14:05 sinani206 wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 24 2012 10:46 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I feel better about you now after your response. Unlike your earlier posts, they actually give a reason for your massive swings in opinion. While I don't agree with your reasoning, you actually showed you had reasoning, and your actions are consistent with it. So, this explains the giant discontinuity for me. Also, you don't need to be more verbose in your posts, you just need to actually show continuity in your thoughts and explain why you've changed your mind if it's on something significant. Nisani looks pretty bad to me, but I think Sinani looks worse. I'm still trying to decide though, but that's how I'm leaning. These two posts just look scummy as hell: The two scenarios I have in mind, are that sinani is either telling the truth, and is town, or he's scum on a team with some kind of protection, or just scum and telling the truth about his item. I did claim shot and that my long fall boots protected me. Also, Nisani is scum. If he's town: Why would you ask this question? The only reason would be if you had important info to drop on the thread if the shot was unblockable and you were going to die. The shot's already coming to you either way, so when it hits, you'll either live or you won't. From what I can see, JayJay never actually answers his question. However, Sinani doesn't drop any info on the thread. He doesn't claim results, he doesn't give all his reads, he doesn't do anything at all, but act like the shot never existed. This doesn't' make sense from a town perspective, especially after you ask if the shot will actually kill you or not, which means you're concerned about your death, and have some reason for needing to know. If he's scum: This question makes a lot more sense from a scum perspective given his follow-up. If scum have a medic, he wants to know if he can block the shot or not, because if it's unblockable there's no point using their protect there. If he just has an extra life as any kind of scum, he wants to know, because it could change how he acts, if he's trying to achieve a specific win condition, or simply so his team can plan around whether he lives or not. In either of these scenarios, his follow-up makes sense. There's no reason for him to give any sort of information to the thread, because it doesn't further his win condition. He just wants to know so he can either get his team to protect him, or plan around how much time he has alive. Either way, it's based off selfish reasons, and not reasons that have the best in mind for town. I see this as pretty damning. I did claim that I was shot and the long-fall boots protected me at the beginning of the day. Also, I don't want to vote for myself, and as usual, I am one of the two major lynch candidates. ##Vote: Nisani201 What does that have to do with anything? The point is you were very concerned with whether JayJay's shot would go through protection, and when he never told you, you didn't follow it up in the same way I'd expect a townie to after asking something like that. That implies that you had an ulterior motive in asking that wasn't pro-town. I'd like to hear from you, though. Why'd you ask JayJay that question? Not once, but twice. ##Vote: sinani206 | ||
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On March 25 2012 02:55 Nisani201 wrote: Sbrubbles the item is given right at the daypost. If the item offers protection then that person would have to wait until the next night. Just claim who you gave it to 1 minute or so before the day post. Then we know who has it; then mafia can't shoot them. | ||
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On March 26 2012 16:49 Jayjay54 wrote: Ok guys, little sleep. kitaman, if you don't come up with a nice explanation for why you visited gonzaw night one, you are the lord of th riiiiiift. However, if that's true, he seems to have no KP any more. Lynching third is prolly not the best option. Other than that, "Mementoss" appeared in the QT. If that's really Mementoss and not an alias, dirk has made the most random choice ever. No help at all there. So if this IS Mementoss, I am fine with killing him. I am willing to trust Nisani to a degree, however, I can't believe that he's still alive and scum killed yugi instead of the inventor. Spider-senses here. What do you guys think? @foolishness: only the title exists in english, I am in no mood to translate it all. 1) I think Nisani probably lived because after he claimed inventor, there was a decent possibility of a medic being on him. So, they shot a lower priority target instead. Also, if Nisani decided to change what he was making, they could very easily push a mislynch on him. One point for Nisani not being on the mafia team is that he actually gave the item to someone. If he was scum, because he was claiming after the deadline, he could very easily have given it to a team mate, and then claimed he had targeted one of the dead, flipped, town players. 2) If we don't want to lynch third party today, and we think Kita is third party, then we have to lynch him tomorrow. We can't let him get anywhere remotely near lylo, and judging on the numbers people have posted, it's looking like we're approaching some sort of 3 way stand-off. We can't let someone we think is third party get close to that, because he might try to act as a swing vote between town and mafia and the sleeper cell, to further his win condition. We also can't be sure if he's bullet-proof or not, so a lynch is the only way to kill him. 3) Inviting mementoss to his QT is very weird. It shows that it was pretty throwaway, and that he didn't really care that much about actually utilizing his role to the fullest. Could someone who was in the QT actually post what he talked to mementoss about? I'm interested to see, as it doesn't seem like he could use it best for collaboration with mementoss, because there were stronger players to invite, nor does he have to use it to judge if mementoss is scum or not, as he's more than capable of doing that in the thread. So, it seems more like it would be for manipulating mementoss, or just inviting him and not doing anything. Based on dirk's behaviour, he's very disinterested, and for Palmar, that's usually a sign of being scum. I think Kita and Dirk are both fine lynches, and someone should shoot the other one tonight. Dirk inviting mementoss doesn't really say much about mementoss by itself to me. Maybe after dirk flips, it could be more revealing. | ||
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On March 27 2012 05:05 kitaman27 wrote: Since this town is going nowhere fast, I might as well claim. Paperscraps was my shot. (as well as palmar, willz22912 (opps), cwave, rayzor (two games in a row :D), and cc) I won't claim how my killing power works (don't bother asking), only that I really enjoy lighting people on fire ^_^ I managed to acquire this neat Color Radiator item and submitted the following players: Mr.Wiggles Kenpachi Dirk Hardpec blubbdavid 1 Town 1 Mafia 2 Sleeper Cell (assuming the item works as described) Remind me why I'm leading the voting -_- Additionally, I acquired one of the cores from the paper kill, which makes mementoss look fairly good as I don't see why a scum player would hold on to it for him. Nisani claimed that he gave the color radiator to Hassy, who for some reason I thought was alive still. Hassy's death said he died because he was discouraged. Either you or Nisani are lying. If you have the color coordinator, either Nisani was lying about who he gave it to, or you're lying and you killed Hassy as well, or one of your team mates did. Also, you should know that bread crumbing your role beforehand doesn't confirm anything about it. You played in Insane 2. I don't buy your excuses for making encrypted posts. Give us the key, so we can check them, if you want us to believe that. | ||
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On March 27 2012 05:49 kitaman27 wrote: Paper killed Hassy, I killed Paper. I acquired the item. I can even provide the exact wording of the description nisani submitted if necessary. Like I said, it's just a cryptogram. You just substitute the letters. After I claim, this is honestly your biggest concern? Funny how blub complains about balance and wiggles calls me a liar right after I claim. From their perspective, if they are town, I've just provided 3 anti-town players. No, the first thing is to try to determine what your alignment is. In PYP:Interesting, GM (I think) was a list checker, and he was also the mole. After he realized he was the mole, he faked his results the next day and led the town around for 2 days when he was the last scum remaining. So, the first thing to do is to figure out what you are, because you could have easily faked a list check, and we wouldn't know it until we killed 3 people out of the list, if we think it's reasonable framers exist. From my perspective, you could have killed up to four town players yourself already, and I have no intrinsic reason to trust you. It looked like either you or Dirk were headed for the lynch, and if you're scum, there's no reason not to lie and keep yourself alive for a couple more days. | ||
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On March 27 2012 06:04 kitaman27 wrote: From your perspective, I could be scum after shooting my scum buddy Paperscraps? Scum means scum, not mafia. There's nothing preventing you from being sleeper cell or third party. There's nothing stopping you from making a fake list, then we kill into it once, someone flips town, so we do it again, someone flips town, then someone says, "Maybe someone's a framer!", so we kill into it a third time, to flip another townie. Or if you're third party, you just make a list of your scum reads and hope you're right. You'd get one free pass due to a possible framer, and by the time we did that, you could just hope that you've achieved your win condition. Why should we trust you? | ||
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On March 27 2012 06:36 kitaman27 wrote: I've shot a scum player (possibly more than one based on the hidden flips), I was one of the first players to bring up a case against blue, and I've just provided the names of three anti-town players. More importantly, why should we trust you. Role claim? So you shot a mafia, made a case against a mafia, killed a whole bunch of people, most of whom were probably town, and provided a list of names with no reason to trust it when you're already on the chopping block. How does that prove you're not third party or sleeper cell and playing towards a different win condition again? | ||
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"See you later, Alligators." They were dumbfounded. | ||
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