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+ Show Spoiler +On March 17 2012 04:43 Velinath wrote:Nova_Terra Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. I'll just throw the EBWOP in here so it makes more sense as I go.Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:44 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: FirmTofu, i think the one problem with lynching lurkers is that we dont really know if they are a lurker. my point is, that when people see your last message, they are going to post, right? especially if they are scum who are lurking. if a townie just doesnt show up (so isnt lurking) i find him more likely to be killed by your list than any mafia.
That being said, I think we should continue to suspect all people on that list. I guess that even includes myself. i just have a feeling that ~2 scum could be in there and will step up when their buddies tell them, "You gotta post, man!" Read this as "Lynching lurkers is a good idea except when it's not, and if they're acting like lurkers they might not actually be lurkers, so if they didn't show up and post they're not actually lurking". That's, like, the definition of lurking.
NT goes on to just say "let's suspect everyone on that list just in case". We're 6 hours into the game at this point, there isn't nearly enough posting to justify a pure town read on ANYONE...of course we should be suspecting everyone this early on. This is useless filler.Okay, let's talk about this FOS mess on day 1. Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. Might as well just use this entire post rather than quoting everything that's nested inside it. First of all, reflex FOS after one post? That goes a little far, I think (never mind that FOS does nothing in this game, just inflames people and is essentially a push for early votes). Same sentiment could have been expressed as I have already - I've said already that I have a negative read on NT without making some big stink about it. Pressure plays should be vote based, because an FOS does nothing.
On March 12 2012 07:16 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 06:38 cosine wrote:On March 11 2012 23:50 Nova_Terra wrote: Where cosine at.... i want him to respond to my suspicions hold your horses buddy i live in a different timezone. i think you're reading a bit too much into my post, i'll try to clarify. when i said sometimes it's good to no lynch in lylo, i think there was some confusion. idk what terminology is used here. maybe mylo? basically i meant in a lategame situation where the town can potentially throw the game away with a mislynch, but has killed enough scum already to eat a nightkill, especially if it means town power-roles get another shot. i was talking about a very specific scenario, so maybe i shouldn't have qualified my statement at all. so let me be clear, lynch is always better than no lynch. and i didn't post because i was called out for lurking, i posted because i was about to go to bed and that's always when i check mafia threads. the day hadn't even started last time i checked the thread. i'll be here with more frequency now that the game is going. see sloosh's play in newbie mini mafia IV. says nothing when it doesnt matter. once the discussion gets more substantive does he appear and work the town. idk what point you're trying to make here. i made a very general statement, and you countered with an extremely specific example, with which i'm not familiar. hope this clarifies things. i don't know what FOS means yet, i'm going now to check all the terminology that's used in liquid mafia, but i have to say i've read your posts and i like your play, as long as you don't get tunnel vision on me. pressure is a good way to get the discussion rolling. and isn't much better to build cases on people's posts instead of the lack thereof? that was the only point i was trying to make when i called tofu's call for a lurkerlynch stupid. This clarifies things substantially. Lylo: a situation where town must lynch mafia or they lose. FoS: finger of suspicion. Basically trying to get you to post to defend yourself. The point i was trying to make about sloosh's play was that that other playstyle should not be overlooked, as it was a vexing position to be in as town. Thanks for the compliment about liking my play, if you meant/included me in that statement. feels nice as i've been trying to justify my apparently hastily made Finger of Suspicion. Dont think that flattery will change anything on my end though. I'll be watching... I agree with building cases on peoples posts rather than the alternative, but i am confused as to why you didnt say just that. To me it came across as if you were trying to make his post seem invalid in the eyes of others by calling it stupid. in the games i have read through, this played a big part in how the town functioned around some certain players. unrelated side note, I have a nasty trigonometry class tomorrow, might need your help cosine xD All jokes aside, I think cosine is relatively cleared of suspicion for the most part. Next, eleanthus (or something along the lines of that): The main thing that bugged me about his post was just the "lynching lurkers maybe" thing. was wishy-washy, he presented nothing new to us and we couldnt even be sure of what his decision was. also, it slightly irked me that he totally seemed to ignore pretty much everything that had happened so far. I dont find it extremely suspicious or anything, but i want him to make a nice big post like cosine's so we can read into his thoughts so far. Lastly, Lurkers and/or lurker lynches. In this case, if we cant get anything out of eleanthus, then he is likely to be the candidate of choice for lynching. however, in the high probability chance of him doing exactly what cosine did, and having no other major scum slips come out of anyone, we will likely be put into the situation where we have to lynch one of these three to avoid a no lynch. Can i propose that we should decide which one of these three (or eleanthus) we should lynch no less than 8 hours before the deadline? this means that there wont be any last minute scrambling that results in a no lynch, and also provides enough of a time buffer that we should all be able to get votes in on that person before the deadline. This also leaves them plenty of time to come back and post before this decision. Reasonable? okay, im out for the night, see you all in a few hours.
I found this quote funny because A) he accuses Eleanthus of being wishy-washy on lurker lynches when I believe I've done a fairly good job of illustrating that he did the same thing with his early post, and B) we've gone from "maybe we shouldn't lynch lurkers because they might not be lurking" to "hey, let's look at lynching lurkers if we need to, in order to get a lynch in". He then goes on to move his vote off of FirmTofu later because he doesn't think that FT's lurking is actually lurking - so we're back to his first viewpoint.
On March 13 2012 01:08 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. No, I did not accuse him, however i did say that if he didnt post again and was lurking after a suspicious post that he had made, he would be a good lynch candidate. Its no more than suggesting we lynch a suspicious lurker during the day. I insisted once again on explaining the motives for my change of atitude because you seemed to ignore it and continue along your train of thought. felt that i had to clarify again so you would be sure to understand my motives. Now if you were suspicious of someone, and then somebody called you suspicious for being suspicious of that person, then went on to say the exact same reasons for also finding the person you accused of being suspicious of suspicious, wouldn't you be frustrated too? It just doesn't make sense to me. like, " This makes you seem guilty, but yeah i agree for all of the reasons you just said." And where did i threaten you? The fact that i was working on showing why i found your post to be suspicious isnt a threat. Its just what i was working on already. I didnt do it as a result or becoming mad or anything, i just wanted to show why it was strange. And once again it appears that you seem to have completely ignored my post. You should go back and read/respond to it. @Mementoss, yeah, im mad. Its because I dont understand why the rest of the town is thinking differently than me. or thinking the same and yet finding me suspicious for thinking in the way i am. It just doesnt make sense to me Eleanthas has my vote currently, until he posts up, and i think that he is the best candidate as the other 'lurkers' posted and his post was widely found suspicious. ##Vote Eleanthas
So much to talk about in this post. NT OMGUS's after Sbrubbles brings up the point that his recent posts had already been defensive. The reaction's totally out of proportion to what's going on here. The interesting thing that I see here is that NT keeps on emphasizing "I didn't accuse cosine!" I disagree.
On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote: his post . . . seemed very scummy (emphasis mine)
On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate. That's an accusation.
Let's move on to the OMGUS reaction in the post @ 14:58 (it's nested). Sbrubbles sums up the post sequence rather nicely in his first post where he points out that NT accuses cosine (I've already discussed why this is an accurate portrayal), and then immediately goes on the extreme defensive when people start asking questions. How is this suspicious? I have absolutely no idea, because NT's explanation doesn't make a ton of sense.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. First of all, calling someone a scummy poster is apparently not the same as saying they're scum. What? Secondly, I think I've made the point clear already that NT's been acting scummy in this thread. Why wouldn't Sbrubbles point out suspicions based on reading the thread - that's kind of the point of the game. Defensive, OMGUS reaction - that says scum to me. Sbrubbles isn't misunderstanding an argument when he uses NT's own posts to make his point. He's pointing out an inconsistency. I'd say TN's making a pretty clear finger point especially after his second post.
Let's not forget this gem:
On March 13 2012 01:10 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: also, why would Sbrubbles want to pressure me for a response? compare to:
4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. I'd also like to point out at this point that Mafia is a game of information. Eliciting responses from other players helps the town; why would NT dislike the application of pressure if he was town?Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 02:30 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 14 2012 01:21 phagga wrote: So, if there is a DT in this game, and he does not know who he should check, I would propose that he chose someone from this list:
- Eleanthas - koritora - cosine
What does everyone else think? I am in agreement with those three being good suspects for a dt to check. I want them (as well as everyone else) to come and post more. The trend seems to be posting some excuse for not posting and then not posting again. I have a couple other minor suspicions right now, but nothing worth noting, until i have a bit more to work with. DT lists are a terrible idea, because A) it gives scum the opportunity to react, knowing that the DT will be checking the people on the list and B) the DT should be investigating and breadcrumbing his own results, not going off a list that could be influenced by scum. While I do have a town read on phagga, nothing's guaranteed - what's to say that's not a scum list? Plus, you're not even taking into account the possibility of a framer. Endorsing this list is scummy play.Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 14:53 Nova_Terra wrote: Okay, i dont have time for a long post right now, but i will come on in a few hours and hopefully respond to everything in this post.
Lets just think about this for a second. Forgive me if i am wrong, but Sbrubbles didnt really present us with anything other than suspicion about me. he did it twice, i believe, and both times it was noticable. Then he dies. Of course it makes sense to suspect me, but Thats just the point. What would the mafia gain from his death if he died? nothing really, and his only big suspicion was on me. Therefore i would seem suspicious. its like framing without a framer, i guess. I voted for Gossemerr instead of tofu because i thought tofu was a townie and therefore not the target to lynch. it makes sense to avoid lynching someone you suspect as townie. By thinking Eleanthas i meant that i agreed with whoever suggested a vote on him unless he stepped up, which he did. I meant that i would probably go with him of nothing else came up and he didnt post. I apologise, i should have clarified what i thought more.
sorry, i will post in a couple hours, just dont have the time, and i hate typing on an ipad. First of all, let's talk about Sbrubbles. NT does a great job WIFOMing his way out of this. "Well, it couldn't possibly be because Sbrubbles suspected me, it's because the mafia wanted me to be under closer suspicion!" We have only his word on this, and I'm not inclined to take it. WIFOM is not credible. By killing Sbrubbles, the mafia gain the benefit of silencing someone who was already suspicious of one of their members. Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the most credible. I think this applies even more here because this is a newbie game. I doubt there are going to be the same level of mindgames here as there would be in a game full of vets.
NT uses the excuse of "Well, I decided Tofu was a townie" to justify his vote switch, but honestly, his vote switch was completely meaningless. The result was already set, so he could switch with impunity - in fact, you notice that he says things likeShow nested quote +On March 13 2012 05:09 Nova_Terra wrote: Truthfully i have a feeling that this vote will end up mislynching a townie. I think a mafia would be defending themselves right now. even so, i dont see how we could get much of a better lynch.... after the majority's already locked in on FT. At this point, he's able to backfill and make these posts, since it doesn't matter whether he votes for FT or someone else. Was he the motivator of this vote? No, but he certainly didn't object until after there was already a majority. He even states himself that it was "too close to the lynch deadline" to stop the bandwagon rolling.
Alright, now we get to come back to that point I made earlier about the Eleantris vote on day 1. I want to point out that NT's already made clear his early suspicions of Elea, and then posts his case on a Gosse/Elea/InfernO scumteam (It's a lot of words, I won't quote it here). He then proceeds to vote for...Gossemerr. Why? I have absolutely no idea, considering he already had his suspicions of Elea on day one. I'll also note here that he was one of the first people to swap his vote to Elea, and I'd actually argue that him doing so really got the bandwagon rolling, considering we really needed a lynch Day 2 (we were already at 3 on Gosse, and then everyone followed TN to Elea).
Lastly, I'd like to quote phagga: Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 08:32 phagga wrote: Nova_Terra: No offense, but I think you are reading to much into the connection between Gossemerr, Eleanthas and inferno. That case won't hold with those arguments, I'm afraid. I really didn't want to put this into my case if I was the only one saying it, but phagga's right there with me. This whole "connection analysis" thing that NT's pushing is very weak. I don't think it's a legitimate case, and it's meant to distract us from scumhunting.
I'd also like to take into account the lynch results of Day 2. Eleantris was TOWN. NT's been busy being "suspicious" of Elea since Day 1, and obviously nothing's changed since that point as far as his feelings have gone (see his day 2 case, as mentioned earlier). If you count Sbrubbles, that's two townies that have disappeared after attracting NT's attention - on this one, he even admits leading the mislynch. Interesting.
Ok on point 1 “Read this as "Lynching lurkers is a good idea except when it's not, and if they're acting like lurkers they might not actually be lurkers, so if they didn't show up and post they're not actually lurking". That's, like, the definition of lurking”
No, read that as people who have lots of suspicion drawn to them and are about to be voted are more likely to post to defend themselves rather than not, if they are actually there. And I think a mafia would probably be there.
And of course it wasn’t enough posting yet to consider someone town. I meant that those should all be people that we may end up lynching day 1.
Onto the FOS, I feel that I sufficiently explained that multiple times. I do find that an FOS does things.
“I found this quote funny because A) he accuses Eleanthus of being wishy-washy on lurker lynches when I believe I've done a fairly good job of illustrating that he did the same thing with his early post, and B) we've gone from "maybe we shouldn't lynch lurkers because they might not be lurking" to "hey, let's look at lynching lurkers if we need to, in order to get a lynch in". He then goes on to move his vote off of FirmTofu later because he doesn't think that FT's lurking is actually lurking - so we're back to his first viewpoint.”
Next, pointing out a problem with lurker lynches and saying maybe we shouldn’t lynch them are two totally separate things. You may be reading into this a little too hard. I did say from the beginning that I would be open to a lurker lynch if there was some scum evidence. I explained the FirmTofu thing as well as I could.
“That's an accusation.” No, in my opinion an accusation would be saying “this person is scum.” This is pretty much saying that he is suspicious enough that a vote on him would make sense. Still, I was looking to generate discussion and posting. “Let's move on to the OMGUS reaction in the post @ 14:58 (it's nested). Sbrubbles sums up the post sequence rather nicely in his first post where he points out that NT accuses cosine (I've already discussed why this is an accurate portrayal), and then immediately goes on the extreme defensive when people start asking questions. How is this suspicious? I have absolutely no idea, because NT's explanation doesn't make a ton of sense. “
Where did you explain why that’s an accusation?
I find that my explanation does make sense. Please tell me what doesn’t, and I can elaborate if necessary.
Uh, no. Calling a move scummy and saying that someone is scum are two different things. One is related to the other, of course.
When someone points out suspicions, becoming defensive makes more sense to me than pushing on aggressively and ignoring the suspicions.
“Let's not forget this gem:
On March 13 2012 01:10 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: also, why would Sbrubbles want to pressure me for a response? compare to:
4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. I'd also like to point out at this point that Mafia is a game of information. Eliciting responses from other players helps the town; why would NT dislike the application of pressure if he was town?[/i]” Someone said that Sbrubbles was pressuring me for responses, I asked why. “DT lists are a terrible idea, because A) it gives scum the opportunity to react, knowing that the DT will be checking the people on the list and B) the DT should be investigating and breadcrumbing his own results, not going off a list that could be influenced by scum. While I do have a town read on phagga, nothing's guaranteed - what's to say that's not a scum list? Plus, you're not even taking into account the possibility of a framer. Endorsing this list is scummy play.” I find that DT lists aren’t a terrible idea for reasons that myself but mostly Phagga has already explained. Spreading town suspicion thoughts would make the dt more accurate. Of course I took into account the possibility of a framer. However, if the dt checked 1/3 people on this list there is a 1/3 chance the framer would hit the same one, and all players were lurkers I believe, so losing one wouldn’t be terrible and dt would know that mafia has a framer.
“First of all, let's talk about Sbrubbles. NT does a great job WIFOMing his way out of this. "Well, it couldn't possibly be because Sbrubbles suspected me, it's because the mafia wanted me to be under closer suspicion!" We have only his word on this, and I'm not inclined to take it. WIFOM is not credible. By killing Sbrubbles, the mafia gain the benefit of silencing someone who was already suspicious of one of their members. Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation is usually the most credible. I think this applies even more here because this is a newbie game. I doubt there are going to be the same level of mindgames here as there would be in a game full of vets.”
If my WIFOM wasn’t credible, in what way was the case made by Seviro credible as well as his was also based on WIFOM? And where did I say anything that meant “well, it couldn’t possibly be because sbrubbles suspected me” what? I said the exact opposite. Because sbrubbles suspected me, he died. I find that argument just as simple.
Yes, I did say that that vote switch was wishy washy, and I did think that it might be able to influence the vote. I had a hope.
Yes, I explained my vote on gossemerr instead of eleanthas as well. The day 1 suspicions, as I said, were inactivity related. And, as I said, I was fine with an Ele lynch though as well, so I did change to ele to get a more likely lynch. And yeah I did say that that was probably my fault. Yeah, I read too much into connections and convinced myself that they were correct. The fact that the points I had made in the individual portions of that post seemed suspicious from them was enough for me to continue to delude myself into thinking I was totally correct.
And yes, I feel that the mislynch was largely my fault.
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Also i fully responded to seviros case without using wifom in the next post, not sure if you saw. In your case the one thing that botherd me is that you took small portions of my posts without my backing it up, and it makes it seem way more suspicious than it actually is. same with you using quotationmarks in your analysis of my posts to state your opinion on what my posts meant, when it isnt actually what i said/ thought.
This death interests me. I would have thought that mafia would have kept phagga alive so as to keep suspicion on a Nova Phagga Janaan connection. Perhaps a play to make it seem as if i wanted him dead to make myself seem inno? I hate WIFOM. gonna go through phaggas filter to see if i can find anything useful that i can pick up on.
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hmm, if we lynch another townie, we lose. that is, if blues dont get a heal or mafia kill etc. At this point in time, is it a good idea for a dt to come out and say what he found? then at least we might stop lynching townies.
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On March 17 2012 23:22 Velinath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2012 17:19 Nova_Terra wrote: Also i fully responded to seviros case without using wifom in the next post, not sure if you saw. In your case the one thing that botherd me is that you took small portions of my posts without my backing it up, and it makes it seem way more suspicious than it actually is. same with you using quotationmarks in your analysis of my posts to state your opinion on what my posts meant, when it isnt actually what i said/ thought.
This death interests me. I would have thought that mafia would have kept phagga alive so as to keep suspicion on a Nova Phagga Janaan connection. Perhaps a play to make it seem as if i wanted him dead to make myself seem inno? I hate WIFOM. gonna go through phaggas filter to see if i can find anything useful that i can pick up on. Did you even read what I said after you posted your defense? And stop WIFOMing, it doesn't get us anywhere. phagga said something good before he died - nightkills get us nothing until we lynch a scum. Umm, yes, you said that my defense was completely WIFOM and it wasnt. Im trying to use possible logic to figure it out myself. nightkills can help us learn. putting out my view on what mafia was thinking makes sense. its not like im using it to accuse anyone or anything.
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1. I thought that phagga was leaning town and 2. I thought that the targets on his list were good ones to check.
Also, even if it doesnt get is closer to a lynch target, it is something valid to discuss because a possible insight into mafia thinking is one thing that town can take from the mafia. if we can know how they think blues might be able to predict what they will do, etc.
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@ Velinath You're welcome, and i'm glad we got some information out of it. I am slightly less suspicious than i was about Gosse, due to the Ele flip, but at this point i am really not sure who to vote.
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No, i missed nothing from the post, and could have easily made sense. and it didnt distract the town, as we were already on that idea, and i at least got us all to rally and try for a good vote.
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EBWOP: and my *case* could have etc.
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It was supported by their filters and even though it was based off of relationships i feel that it did bring up some good points. and it did make sense looking from a logical perspective. It was faulty in that i had confirmation bias and was sure i was right, and therefore read into it too hard. I have been going through filters for the past couple hours and am having trouble attempting to make a case, especially with 2 lurkers that we cant really vote as they are gonna be replaced.
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aha, it seems like i will likely be lynched. If anyone has any questions for me to answer, shoot.
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1. I think that i defended your case decently
2. I hate lurkers ruining the game so damn much 3. town reads: Nova_Terra Janaan, Mementoss null: inferno, kori, veli leaning scum: seviro, gosse
yeah yeah im attempting a case later on
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Seviro
Seviro starts the game off by posting analysis regarding lynching day 1. He also says that he is 100% against a random lynch.
On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though
His next post attacks my FOS, but agrees that it is suspicious of cosine.
On March 12 2012 04:43 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 04:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Isnt that exactly what i said? i just want him to start posting and defend himself. I dont/didnt consider FOS a big commitment, sorry if i confused anyone and made it seem like i was gonna vote him. i still think hes totally suspicious for all the things i just said.
Yeah sorry, I just thought that FOS someoned base on a single post was a bit over reacting but I understand that you were in fact just stating that he was suspicious and as the day pass I agree more and more since he didn't post since then. Right now it's hard to make a decision though because there is many people that didn't post yet or if they did they just stated their position on the "no lynch/random lynch topics". We need more contribution to not make a mistake on our first lynch (if we decide to lynch that is) Essentially says that FOS based on 1 post is suspicious but agrees with me that he was suspicious for not posting, which was my entire point in the FOS Then goes on to state that its hard to make a decision due to inactivity, then states that more contribution is needed
His next post then states the obvious that cosine is getting more and more suspicious as time passes, more fluff After this he does some more analysis on lynching/vs no lynching. Bringing up more not so important issues. Then he feels the need to clarify his first post to make sure we aren’t thinking that he doesn’t want a lynch day 1 and explains it as him wanting to make sure we discuss it first. Then he agrees with a FirmTofu lynch and notes his own suspicions on him, further adding to the bandwagon. Then adds “helpful” fluff making sure that people vote right.
In his next post, he brings up koritora being contradictory, possibly trying to make him seem a bit suspicious. Then expresses sadness at tofu dying, and states finally that we should wait for the mafia kill to get information (leading up to his next post maybe?).
+ Show Spoiler +On March 14 2012 14:13 Seviro wrote:GG sbrubbles, be sure that we'll avenge your death. At first I was like why kill him, he was not really active, did not really help the town the first day and I didn't see him being a threat for anyone. Now after looking at his filter, his death give me some pointers. First, only 2 post of him contain some sort of analysis/suspicion. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 23:29 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. You didn't accuse him? Short of actually voting for the fellow, threatening to vote for someone is as accusatory as it gets: + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 01:57 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:51 Seviro wrote:On March 11 2012 20:18 Nova_Terra wrote:
Please explain yourself. I dont like cosines play so far, his only post comes after someone accusing him of lurking. not only does he not bring anything new to the table, he confuses us and discredits others post (tofus) and calls it stupid.
Here I don't see how he is different than you about posting just after being accusiing of lurking since your first post was just after FirmTOfu called the current people in the game that hadn't post at this time On March 11 2012 17:36 Nova_Terra wrote:Hey, Sorry, I was asleep for the last 8 hours and just woke up I agree with always pushing a lynch as long as there is aome evidence that shows that the person is likely to be scum. for instance lurkers, bad defenders, etc. i also agree with a no lynch as long as there is overwhelming evidence that shows lynch candidates as being townies. But I guess you're right since he didn't post at all since then, where you have. I just think that FOSing someone this early in the game (8 hour ago was early I mean) after only a single post is a bit suspicious but I do agree that he is not clear of suspicion with his one post, not worth a FOS yet though Yeah, it was a funny coincedence that he posted that right before i woke up. i also pointed out the post before how the suspicion should also be on me. The thing is though, his post was extremely messed up and seemed very scummy. i definitely think it is worth an FOS seeing as nothing else was happening and i want him to clarify it up. its not like i voted for him yet or anything. On March 12 2012 01:59 Nova_Terra wrote: EBWOP: and if cosine doesnt post and we dont get any other leads i feel that he would be a good lynch candidate.
Also, why so angry? Why do you insist (once again) on explaining the motives for your change of atitude? I pointed out that you were quick to turn defensive (or frustrated, as you say) when you were called out on it and it is my opinion that this is suspicious behavior, but that this doesn't matter for now because it is not worth it to push on a talkative (potential) mafia because there will be plenty of time for you to slip up later on if you really are scum. Now your answer is to threaten me, calling me suspicious? Anyway, question here: if the we agree to lynch a lurker, how are we gonna go about it? Bandwagon on the first non-replied accusation? At this point, besides Elean, we can consider a Inferno as a lurker. His post may not be contradictory like Elean (as in, he doesn't call himself worthless and suggests himself to be lynched), but he also hasn't contributed to the thread. Firmtofu looked like he was gonna participate but also hasn't said anything. In both of them, he state his suspicion on the early behaviour of Nova_Terra, maybe he was on something here. So I looked up Nova_Terra's filter and noticed so good thing. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 14:58 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
What is your point here? I didnt accuse him, i fos'ed him. two co pletely separate things, at least in my eyes. The pyshing on him was wanting him to respond, as was the point of my fos. I also wanted other people, like yourself, to come out of their lurking and post on this. I got frustrated when they started saying Nova_Terra is extremely eager to FoS because i was like... OH Really?!?! and then they went on to use my logic to say that he was suspicious. thats why i was mad. not exactly defensive, but frustrated at the town. Then, cosine posted exactly what i had been looking for, generating intelligent discussion. if by "willing to go onto the next topic" you mean "making new ideas that help the town and dont tunnel one person" i agree. please dont discredit my posting by calling it "inexperience/carelessness or something more" especially when this is your FIRST POST. later on i will come and explain why YOUR post seems suspicious to me. for now, im thinking eleanthas. In this one, he confront Scrubbles after he called him out on his early agressiveness, saying that it was to have some sort of conversatioin going out but also adding that he was frustrated by the town for not agreeing with him. Then he add to not "discredit his post by calling it inexperience/carelessness" where in fact Scrubbles was in fact only giving him some sort of excuse for what he posted earlier. As Scrubbles said, being defensive over such a small thing is suspicious to me. He then end his post on a semi-random call on eleanthas by saying that he is "thinking him". This way of wording it is like he want us to start pressuring eleanthas ourselves without stating it. That one-line call bugs me out a lot. He then tell why he thinks Scrubbles post was suspicous. + Show Spoiler +On March 12 2012 17:09 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:45 Sbrubbles wrote: Sup guys! My first post in this game, sorry it took so late!
It's hard to read someone based on the first half of the first day. On this whole Nova Terra/Cosine discussion, the only thing that stood out to me was Nova Terra's behavior, accusing and pushing on cosine (in a somewhat impatient manner), turning defensive when he's called out on it and then forgiving cosine after his post, seeming willing to go to the next topic. Being overly aggressive is not a usual day 1 mafia trait, but quickly turning defensive if called out some something is. Still, he is being active, so time will tell whether it was just a bit of town inexperience/carelessness or something more.
I just want to point out like posts like this are scummy. Not making any “accusations” or anything. 1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. 2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion 3. Discrediting posts by calling it inexperience/carelessness 4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. Show nested quote +1. Throws the blame onto others, as if I was the scummy acting one, whereas this was his first post and the point of it was to throw suspicion onto me. Why would Scrubbles throw the blame on him when he was not even targetted at all. I mean it's not like Scrubbles was our main target and he wanted to put the spot on another one whereas it is exactly waht Nova_Terra is doing by turning his post against him. Show nested quote +2. Seemingly purposely not understanding my argument to provoke meaningless discussion. He is dodging the fact that Scrubbles want more explanation about his early FOS by implying that there is nothing more to add and that Scrubbles is just wanting to bring up old discussion whereas it was legitimate of him to want some more since he was not convince of his innocence yet. See point 2, that is exactly what Nova do. Show nested quote +4. Not wanting to actually point a finger at me or to throw enough blame that anyone would be suspicious. What he did before on Eleanthas. Also, that was not what Scrubbles was doing he just happen to have come online after the veil of suspicion was lifted on Nova and he just wanted some clarification. Show nested quote +As you can see, these are all things that one may notice when reading a guide as to how scum should play. So well at this point pretty self-explanatory. Finally I will quote myself. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 08:36 Seviro wrote:Oh god i'm late to the party today, Real life can be a whore Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:34 Nova_Terra wrote: Okay, gossemerr, read the post above. I dont feel that a lynch on firmtofu will have any non-town results.
This is not trying to lynch you. I apologise for being so wishy washy and understand why people may not like this decision. Unvote: FirmTofu Vote: Gossemerr
I think you would be better voting for a no lynch because voting randomly for someone like this seems a bit scummy in my opinion but i guess you just didn't notice that you could just vote no lynch I think by voting on someone else since Tofu was most likely dead anyways, he wanted to not be associated with his death since he knew he was a townie (if he is a scum of course) and that kind of worked. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 22:48 phagga wrote:So, the bandwagon on FirmTofu was rolling to easy. There was no opposition. As scum profits from mislynches, I am sure we will find at least 1 if not 2 scum on the voters of FirmTofu. Here's the final voting stand on FirmTofu again: FirmTofu (7): phagga, Eleanthas, Janaan, Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, cosine, Janaan: He agrees on FirmTofu, and brings up Koritora as new suspect after the lynch with good reason. Does not look suspicious. Gossemerr: Trying to be active and helpful, lacking some content. Went a bit overboard with the "specific scenario" argument vs Nova_Tera IMO, but I think that's not an issue. Also brought up that noone is defending FirmTofu, although he again was not the first one to do so. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. Mementoss: Very active, posting analysis. Brought up Eleanthas, stated his position on several players. Does not look suspicious. Seviro: another rather active player, although content may be debatable. I hope to get some analysis from him soon, currently a null read. cosine: He speaks out several times vs a lurker lynch on Day1, but then jumps easily on the FirmTofu bandwagon to lynch a lurker. Besides defending himself, he did not add anything substantial. I don't like that. Eleanthas: His posting is still lacking, he actually only reiterated the wordings of others. His only longer post is this one: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:57 Eleanthas wrote:Ok. Sorry for not responding. Saw discussion towards me at school with my phone, but really hard to write anything with it so decided to wait untill I come home. Anyway have been busy atm. Will change now. 1So what Can i say about first post. It was really just a post to tell people I'm alive. In some forums, you get replaced if you don't speak on first half of day, so I guess I followed that rule there. Had really nothing to say. Just plain stupid first post from me. 2About Nova_Terra: He seems eager to accuse anybody scum if given even a small chance. I guess he is trying to presure players to talk to get discussion going on. Doesn't seem too scummy for me, but have to keep eye on him. 3So what I think about InfernOokami7: On March 12 2012 08:40 InfernOokami7 wrote: I'm not 100% in favor of a no lynch on day 1 as long as there is a reasonable amount of suspicion for someone. I just didn't see the point in voting to lynch someone if the reason wasn't there because instead of just giving the mafia a free pass for the night, you're giving them a 2 for 1 deal instead. beside that post he has 4 post saying pretty much same. I guess he is trying to lurk by stating same thing in many posts. Would like to hear about him. 4And lastly about FirmTofu: Like many others pointed out FirmTofu posted 2 fast posts. Seems kinda suspicous to me. Telling to pick one of the lurkers and listing them and then vanishing. If we don't hear about him, my vote is gonna go for him. 5 ##Vote FirmTofu 1 + 2 Apologizes for not posting earlier, then calls his own first post stupid, although the post itself was not that bad. The fact that he did not post more after this short oneliner was bad. 3 Seviro, Mementoss and Sbrubbles already pointed out the exact same thing. Actually, just take a look at Mementoss phrase: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 02:33 Mementoss wrote: I agree with this post, it seems NovaTerra is eager to FoS despite how early in the game it was, which seems a little suspicious. But, it is most likely just a pressure play, to get the discussion rolling, and people talking. Eleanthas post is the same content with different wording. 4 Was brought up in a similar form by Mementoss. 5 Was brought up by pretty much everyone active in the thread at that time. So, he actually said nothing. The comments on each of his 3 "suspects" are really short and only repeat thoughts brought up by others. For me, he is one of the more suspect persons in the game. ##FoS: Eleanthas in his post Phagga write a global analysis of everyone that vote for the lynch without touching to those who didn't. If I'm correct, that was quite a nice play from Nova. So Nova_Terra I can't wait for your answers. That said, I'm going to bed ##Big FOS:Nova_Terra
Seviro constructs a WIFOM case to make me seem suspicious and to mislead us after leading up to it with his “waiting for mafia kill” post. Then he makes sure to note to phagga that he is analyzing, like a “see im doing something useful” gesture. Then he pulls the “Im new that’s why I didn’t know WIFOM was bad” card when his case wasn’t received as well as it could have been. He later states that the case on lurkers is a “hard one” as we cannot tell if they are town or scum. Oh really?
Then he agrees that the Im new kind of post isn’t okay.
Then he provides a reason for him not voting yet, in essence providing a reason for not pointing a finger yet.
Then, suddenly, Seviro uses Backwards WIFOM, suddenly understanding the exact opposite side to the case he had made versus me, and uses it to put down Ele, another townie, as his vote. Then he posts fluff on how he messed up on math.
On March 16 2012 05:51 Seviro wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 04:59 Nova_Terra wrote: @ Velinath I put my vote onto Gossemerr because i find that in his posts, he is the most dangerous player out of the three. I find that his posting has some qualities that make his arguments seem plausible and valid, and shares his ideas/information (when he has any) in the most comprehensive manner out of the three, which is why i find him more dangerous. While I agree on that, I feel like if he flips town we would lose a big contibutor of the town whereas if we lynch Eleanthas there is 2 possibilities: 1. he flips Town and we lose a semi-lurker that didn't help the town at all since the start of the game 2. He turns out to be indeed scum which then we can safely say that Gossemer is most likely a scum as well. I feel like Eleanthas is the safest lynch for today, hence my vote. As for the third possible scum, I don't have a clue yet but if these two are indeed scum that would make it much more easier to find him based on their post.
Now he pulls something interesting. He doesn’t want to lynch gossemerr because we would lose a big contributor to the town instead of a lurker, and that if Ele turned scum, Gosse was likely scum. Imagine this from a scum point of view, if Seviro was scum. Seviro could be saying that he wants to lynch a townie instead of his mafia ally, Gossemerr. and not only in a way that excuses him voting for ele, in a way that makes Gosse seem more innocent when Ele flips town. He further defends Gosse moderately in his next post. He defends Gosse voting Janaan even more in the post after that,
On March 16 2012 06:52 Seviro wrote:EBWOP It's seem like I missed a part of my post. Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 06:13 Nova_Terra wrote: @ seviro, i think the same reasoning applies to Gosse. Take a look at his filter; he really isnt a big contributor. at all. he barely has more posts than ele, and spreads doubt regarding members of the town better. in those 2 cases: 1. he flips town and we lose a semi lurker whos best case is just a few lines suspecting janaan without much reason to back it up 2. he turns out to be a scum which means we can assume that ele is scum as well, which likely makes inferno a scum.
I agree with either of the two as a lynch target, but there is something to be said for eliminating the more dangerous player first. I will be on for another ~30 minutes where i can answer questions or change my vote (between those 2). Sorry for any typos, typing on an ipad. Show nested quote +1. he flips town and we lose a semi lurker whos best case is just a few lines suspecting janaan without much reason to back it up Well to be fair I think he had somthing to back it up. First, he point out that Janaan bring up his suspicion on Koritora after the lynch has been done. Had he post that before the end of the day that could have saved FirmTofu. Also the fact that Janaan wrote his post suspecting Koritora right after the night post as if he wanted to lead the discussion. + Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 14:06 Janaan wrote:GG FirmTofu I think we need to use this night phase to get some cases rolling. We don't have much to go on as far as cases go from Day 1, so we've got our work cut out for us. One thing I noticed from the votes that I found very interesting was Koritora's No Lynch vote. Here's one of his early posts: Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:22 koritora wrote: However, to lynch a lurker is not a bad thing. It's not helping anyone in the town. As for people against lynching on the Day 1, that's where my suspicion lies. Then he turns around and: Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 09:37 koritora wrote: Well besides the fact FirmTofu has only made talk about lynching a lurker, there isn't really much else to go on. Same case can be made for InfernoOkami7. But since either hasn't spoken up lately, I can only assume they are lurking and that puts my vote up in the air for these two unless they come and contribute something meaningful. But as of the moment, I can't decide between the two and therefore going with a no lynch.
##Vote: No Lynch First he says that he's suspicious of anyone who is against lynching on day 1. Then he's all of a sudden against lynching on day 1? This seems like a huge contradiction to me. Is it possible that he's trying to take away suspicion since he didn't vote for the mislynch? I'm not sure, but it's definitely possible. I think he's definitely worth a closer look. Then, in his vote post he seem to agree with my case on you and found it strange that Jaanan protect you like this. While these accusation are debatable, I don't think that he had no reason to vote on Janaan whereas Eleanthas is much more a semi-lurker as he never really stated his own opinion about anything. And then continues to explain why voting janaan could have made sense in his next. And continues to edit his posting on why janaan could be mafia. He then jumps on board the Nova Scummy again train, and shows again his suspicions for me.
Enjoy, this is also why I found Gosse leaning scum, partnered to the points in my earlier case that were not based on connections. I was tempted to vote for no lynch, but as I am starting to think that there may be no dt, it would just prolong our doom, I am afraid, and so, I will vote based on this case and my gut feelings.
##Vote: Seviro
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Also i think Velinath is trying to provoke a OMGUS reaction that has sadly been present in my play so far. Which would not look favorably on me. Not sure what he is trying to do with it, still unsure as to his status as town/mafia.
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I see reasonable evidence that lurkers will not be modkilled as i have seen a post or two from people who would replace, and i think that our hosts would not let it end like that . And i do not want a no lynch as i am no longer sure of a DT.
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actually gossemerr's case does make a lot of sense, and i agree that janaan should have pointed more of a finger at me after that case. However at this point i will stick with my case.
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Seviro, It is I who is sure that you are a scum.
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Actually Mementoss, if i did flip scum, which wont happen as i am a Townie the game would be over bar a sick medic save etc. A no lynch would hurt the town less than this would.
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I would laugh if both of our lurkers were town, and it would be therefore impossible for me to win the game
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@ Seviro, generally taking parts from peoples filters and summarizing them is how a case is made. i think it apparent in my summaries that much of your content is fluff/ filler, with some repeat defense and small contradictions that you overreacted about also in there. those things are all scummy.
having 0 blues would suck majorly. im hoping that after i am lynched ( as seems inevitable at this point) 1 lurker is replaced and one is modkilled and the modkilled one is mafia. best case scenario i guess.
DT, if you exist, now would be a damn good time for you to show up.
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Holy god. I actually feel really bad Gossemerr, Its me who hopes that you dont hate me o.O Really well played by mafia, i was so sure mementoss was town... Thanks jaj22 at the end i was trying to figure out what i was doing/defending wrong that got me lynched, but it was my own stupidity in making a case vs seviro(/gossemerr) that really killed me. it made sense that they lynched me.
I think i read into Janaans metagame much too hard too. in his last game he had pretty much the same approach and was a vanilla townie. I wish we had lynched cosine day 1 haha.
Of course we read the day/night posts, and i thought they were very good and relatively creative. . sorry again to seviro and gossemerr
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