TL Mafia LII: JubJub Mafia

Town lie all the time.
Town make illogical moves all the time.
Town play anti-town all the time.

But if we think they are town we do not lynch them.

Kurumi is not trolling.
It follows that he is probably scum.
##Vote Kurumi

i am a little bored, think i will just post

gogo voteswitch to random lurker
##vote Abension

From: Bill Murray [ 5179 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia
Date: 3/13/12 18:37

From: Bill Murray [ 5179 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia
Date: 3/14/12 12:08

From: Bill Murray [ 5179 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia
Date: 3/14/12 12:29

From: Bill Murray [ 5179 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia
Date: 3/16/12 14:56

+5 science collaboration points to those who answered "no"

Palmar comments on Kurumi

From: Mr. Wiggles [ 3803 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia
Date: 3/16/12 05:25
hahahahahahahaah. Why do you think that Mattchew should be closer to town than scum? Same thing with Palmar?


From: Mr. Wiggles [ 3803 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia
Date: 3/16/12 05:47
Yes, I'm getting the feeling that Palmar could be scum. He came in, and acted like town Palmar would, but then he didn't actually proceed to push any lynches or scum reads in the thread. Instead, he got a whole bunch of people to PM him and roleclaim. Also worrying to me, is that Pandain PMed me before he replaced out, and since Palmar has replaced in, he has not tried to talk to me besides asking me to roleclaim twice. Meanwhile, in the thread, he's said that he's talked extensively with Mattchew and VE, as well as Caller. It seems weird to me especially when he says he's on the fence about me, as talking to me would be a good way to determine my alignment. I might just be paranoid, but it could be that he's afraid I'll peg him as scum if we talk, because I've done it twice before when he was third party/traitor, one of those being a PM game where we talked a fair bit, and once in a game where he was scum. I'm keeping my eye on him, anyways, and if he's telling the truth about killing Jackal, and Jackal flips town, he should be shot on night 2, I'd think.

Mattchew, I feel has just not actually been contributing much to the game, while posting in a way that makes him look like he's doing stuff. Last time I read his filter, it was all commentary on what was happening, or one liners calling someone out without any follow-up.

From: Mr. Wiggles [ 3803 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia
Date: 3/16/12 11:46
[quote]Original Message From Mr. Wiggles:
I think he's one of the best bets for this lynch. He hasn't actually defended the accusations of faking his action PM, either. I don't see why the mods would write it like that, and if they did, I consider it border-line bastard modding, especially in a normal game, and if not everyone's PMs are phrased that way. Using mod PMs to look at someone is normally bad, or not allowed in the case of role PMs, but it's also normal, in a way, as faking a role requires faking the mechanics, and it becomes a way to tell if someone's lying. It means that scum can't completely fake roles and not be called out on it for how they word it, or make it. It's like if I claimed to be a Bullet-Proof townie, and said my role PM was the first act of Hamlet. If people can start doing that, it will change the way mechanics surrounding blues work, and how they're dealt with in the thread.

So basically, if his PM was actually worded that way, it means the mods worded it that way, to make sure that if Kurumi shared it with anyone, they would think he is lying, which is a shitty thing to do, because then you're actively interfering with and influencing the game as it goes on as the mod, as roleclaims are part of the game.

[quote]Original Message From layabout:
Are you sure about Kurumi?[/quote]

From: Mr. Wiggles [ 3803 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: mafia
Date: 3/16/12 12:54
So why were you doubting about Kurumi being scum?

No name=layabout
Jesse Huard= Mr. wiggels
[13/03/2012 22:00:52] No name: hello
[13/03/2012 22:01:06] Jesse Huard: hey
[13/03/2012 22:01:33] No name: any scumreads? i am stumped
[13/03/2012 22:02:04] Jesse Huard: I"m debating about prpl/caller
[13/03/2012 22:02:17] Jesse Huard: and then node/decon are afk, which is always scummy of them
[13/03/2012 22:02:32] No name: has decon done anything?
[13/03/2012 22:02:44] No name: other than tell me that sometimes its okay to kill town
[13/03/2012 22:03:00] Jesse Huard: he voted for caller in the thread, and not the voting one
[13/03/2012 22:03:48] No name: i thought caller looked likely town
[13/03/2012 22:04:16] Jesse Huard: for what reasons?
[13/03/2012 22:04:20] No name: but i am unsure why people feel he looks scummy
[13/03/2012 22:04:26] No name: towards the start
[13/03/2012 22:04:37] No name: he was trying to direct discussion towards the lynch
[13/03/2012 22:04:49] No name: the DocH thing was a bit strange
[13/03/2012 22:05:15] No name: but given that "Kaller game" is named after him i expected him to do something weird
[13/03/2012 22:05:53] No name: though i would to skim some of his old games before making that kind a meta judgement
[13/03/2012 22:06:24] Jesse Huard: Well, what looks weird to me, isn't really that he made a case on Jackal, or the weird DrH accusation, but more what happened afterwards
[13/03/2012 22:06:42] No name: he went quiet?
[13/03/2012 22:06:45] Jesse Huard: Instead of actually pushing for the jackal lynch, he spent all his time calling VE scum
[13/03/2012 22:07:01] Jesse Huard: and saying that if jackal flips town, we lynch VE the next day
[13/03/2012 22:07:14] No name: without a good reason for saying so
[13/03/2012 22:07:24] Jesse Huard: Why wouldn't you try to ensure your first suspect is actually lynched?
[13/03/2012 22:07:53] Jesse Huard: Then, why do you reveal the stuff about VE, when it would be much more powerful all at once, and if it depends on the flip, after you see the flip
[13/03/2012 22:08:36] Jesse Huard: Also, the stuff he says, is pretty contradictory
[13/03/2012 22:09:09] Jesse Huard: He calls VE out for what he sees as trying to set himself up to look good no matter what the flip is, while he does the same thing himself
[13/03/2012 22:09:36] Jesse Huard: also, it's kind've weird, because if he was mafia, he should know what the flip is, so I don't get what he's saying, in a way
[13/03/2012 22:10:00] Jesse Huard: if VE was mafia, he should know what the flip is, so why would he set himself up to look good both ways, according to caller*
[13/03/2012 22:11:32] No name: plus the "thank you prplhz stuff" read like nonsense
[13/03/2012 22:12:04] Jesse Huard: yeah, I can't tell yet, whether he's actually scum, or just throwing crap around, though
[13/03/2012 22:14:01] No name: It's seems a little odd
[13/03/2012 22:14:46] No name: that most of his accusations against Jackal were based upon him criticising his own bad reasoning and suggesting "a plan"
[13/03/2012 22:15:48] No name: when Jackal probably is the role he claimed and he managed to start a discussion that was not all that bad
[13/03/2012 22:16:12] No name: and i think that was all he intended to do when he said we should announce PM's
[13/03/2012 22:16:57] Jesse Huard: yeah
[13/03/2012 22:17:03] Jesse Huard: Also, the idea had some merits
[13/03/2012 22:17:42] Jesse Huard: Well, I'm going to go do some homework, now, I'll be back later. If you want to write stuff to me, I'll read it when I get back
[13/03/2012 22:17:51] No name: cool
[13/03/2012 22:21:08] No name: Now in my experience "scumslips" are not very common so when caller says he found one in this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13896263 , i think that he is trying to make people doubt VE whilst making himself look useful
[13/03/2012 22:23:00] No name: In spite of all of the accusations leveled against Jitsu and in spite of my argument with him i believe he has town's interest in mind when he is posting
[13/03/2012 22:24:03] No name: his vote for prp is terrible
[13/03/2012 22:25:20] No name: I am in contact with Bill Murray,we have not said much due to crappy timezones
[13/03/2012 22:31:36] No name: Jaybrundage: when i read this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13887349 i thought like Jay showed that his actions make more sense from a town persctive than scum one
[13/03/2012 22:34:20] No name: i do not see why mafia would defend themself by saying that basically all they have done so far had been to fish for reactions
[13/03/2012 22:36:38] No name: when he says " I say i do agree with lynching liars and Lurkers. However i suggest we use them as guidelines. " i he is making a mute point, that he did not need to make in the first place and that he didn't need to emphasise
[13/03/2012 22:37:05] No name: I also think its strange that Jaybrundage says he thinks Kurumi would be the traitor, since I find it very difficult to figure out Kurumi's motivations for posting and he is not always serious.
[13/03/2012 22:37:38] No name: I do not see why you would be speculating about the traitor like that as town
[13/03/2012 22:39:25] No name: So Wiggles, when you are looking for scum do you differentiate between scum and traitors? and if you think a player is one of the two and you want to lynch them, wouldn't you call them scum rather than traitor as that is more likely to sway people to lynch them?
[14/03/2012 02:20:07] Jesse Huard: When I look for scum, the first thing I do is just look for them acting scummily. If it's a game with multiple factions, i.e. 2 mafia families, sk and mafia, mafia and traitors, I might try to differentiate between them, especially if my read relies on associative tells
[14/03/2012 02:21:01] Jesse Huard: If I had a choice between scum and traitor, and if the traitor wasn't called out as a traitor, I'd lynch the scum. Th e thing is, you can't be 100% sure, so if you think they're scum, you lynch them no matter if they might be traitor or normal mafia
[14/03/2012 02:21:52] Jesse Huard: I'd probably just call them scum, but I think that's more of a personal choice, as people don't always follow optimal play, and it might just be an oversight
[14/03/2012 02:22:27] Jesse Huard: personally, if I was the traitor, it seems pretty hard to actually get added to the scum team, so what I'd do instead, is just try to cause as much chaos in the town as I could
[14/03/2012 02:23:25] Jesse Huard: this doesn't neccessarily mean act like Kurumi is, but it could be something like push a bunch of cases I know are wrong, to waste town's time, and push bad cases, or oppose things, and make stuff difficult. Basically, act as anti-town as I could, while passing it off as bad play, and avoid the lynch

I just realised that i am going to be busy tomorrow, which sucks

because some derps actually thought kurumi might be town, i mean can you believe it? i know right?

I am also wondering how reliable that spreadsheet is

Or
There was a town vig that shot mattchew or sandroba (which is unlikely).

Or
Mafia have a role such as a poisoner which has given them an extra KP (which is silly)

Or
Mattchew or sandroba was some kind of weak doctor/hider

[14/03/2012 02:20:07] Jesse Huard: When I look for scum, the first thing I do is just look for them acting scummily. If it's a game with multiple factions, i.e. 2 mafia families, sk and mafia, mafia and traitors, I might try to differentiate between them, especially if my read relies on associative tells
[14/03/2012 02:21:01] Jesse Huard: If I had a choice between scum and traitor, and if the traitor wasn't called out as a traitor, I'd lynch the scum. Th e thing is, you can't be 100% sure, so if you think they're scum, you lynch them no matter if they might be traitor or normal mafia
[14/03/2012 02:21:52] Jesse Huard: I'd probably just call them scum, but I think that's more of a personal choice, as people don't always follow optimal play, and it might just be an oversight
[14/03/2012 02:22:27] Jesse Huard: personally, if I was the traitor, it seems pretty hard to actually get added to the scum team, so what I'd do instead, is just try to cause as much chaos in the town as I could
[14/03/2012 02:23:25] Jesse Huard: this doesn't neccessarily mean act like Kurumi is, but it could be something like push a bunch of cases I know are wrong, to waste town's time, and push bad cases, or oppose things, and make stuff difficult. Basically, act as anti-town as I could, while passing it off as bad play, and avoid the lynch

Today each of us should have at least a few people that we consider likely town and thus a small pool of players that we think could be scum and would be willing to lynch.
If anybody is still playing then you only have to look into that pool and pick the person you think looks worst.

To: Bill Murray [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia
Date: 3/26/12 08:51
logs with Katina:

[25/03/2012 03:27:48] Summer Barnes: One day we will be on at the same time!
[00:16:10] No name: i will have to sleep soon
[00:16:30] No name: but i might as well dump some thoughts and let you think about them
[00:16:40] Summer Barnes: okay
[00:16:56] No name: I think that Dr.H has been unusually confident thins game
[00:17:21] No name: he has not second geussed himself (openly) very much and that seems strange
[00:17:58] No name: he was very confident when telling people to vote for Kurumi and when he opposed the Abension lynch
[00:18:51] No name: scum would have known that he was right when he posted
[00:19:05] No name: but as town the calls were not so easy to make
[00:19:38] No name: Echelon Tee made this post a while back
[00:20:10] No name: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13993762
[00:20:55] Summer Barnes: what about that post?
[00:21:43] No name: he made it the night after the caller lynch
[00:22:10] No name: and we have gone on to lynch both of those players and they flipped town
[00:22:37] Summer Barnes: do you think hes mafia then?
[00:22:52] No name: Wiggles did
[00:23:03] No name: i think i do
[00:23:16] No name: he has also avoided talking about DR.H
[00:23:22] Summer Barnes: you think? lol
[00:23:32] Summer Barnes: is that true?
[00:23:50] No name: is what true?
[00:24:02] Summer Barnes: he has avoided drh?
[00:24:03] No name: he only mentions him at the end of the day
[00:24:13] No name: when he mentions that sandro pushed wiggels more
[00:25:36] Summer Barnes: do you think deconduo is mafia?
[00:26:00] No name: it's possible
[00:26:10] No name: but i am working on the assumtion that he is town
[00:26:41] No name: have you read his Pm logs with wiggles?
[00:27:03] Summer Barnes: if you think that then who's the last mafia
[00:28:07] No name: at the moment mafia team is something like ET DrH and BM/Sent
[00:28:33] No name: The main problem is that everybody has been so inactive
[00:28:50] Summer Barnes: BM should die either tonight or tomorrow if hes town
[00:28:54] No name: including me
[00:29:09] No name: that mafia can easily get away with not posting
[00:29:13] Summer Barnes: mafia will shoot him cause he's confirmed
[00:29:40] No name: and the thread has come to a standstill
[00:30:07] No name: nobody is put under any real pressure
[00:30:36] No name: so most of my reads have been the same for like a week
[00:31:12] No name: and the ones that have died were town reads anyway
[00:31:50] No name: it's pretty likely that there is at least 1 mafia player that is doing nothing
[00:35:58] No name: have you read through dead players filters?
[00:36:39] Summer Barnes: no not entirely
[00:36:55] Summer Barnes: and sorry my internet gets funky at times
[00:37:52] No name: it's fine
[00:38:01] No name: what do you make of jaybrundage?
[00:38:25] Summer Barnes: what I said in my most recent post
[00:38:35] Summer Barnes: pretty sure hes a big jubjub
[00:38:40] Summer Barnes: but at the same time
[00:38:53] Summer Barnes: he hasnt done anything
[00:39:13] No name: what do you make of his case?
[00:39:25] No name: since he has one now
[00:40:43] No name: damn funky internet...
[00:42:49] No name: you there?
[00:44:18] Summer Barnes: yes
[00:44:39] Summer Barnes: only took him like a week to get that case out -_-
[00:45:44] No name: i don't think either of us have been active enough to be able to make such a criticism
[00:46:50] No name: so jay...
[00:47:40] No name: like i really need to go
[00:47:47] No name: answer!

To: Bill Murray [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia
Date: 3/26/12 09:08
rest of it

[00:45:44] No name: i don't think either of us have been active enough to be able to make such a criticism
[00:46:50] No name: so jay...
[00:47:40] No name: like i really need to go
[00:47:47] No name: answer!
[00:56:19] Summer Barnes: so demanding!
[00:56:31] Summer Barnes: drh is going to die tomorrow
[00:56:35] Summer Barnes: we can work the rest from there
[00:56:38] Summer Barnes: what's clear is that jay needs to be looked at a lot
[00:56:53] Summer Barnes: and if BM doesn't die soon that's a big problem
[00:57:30] No name: scum are not going to kill anybody they think might get lynched
[00:57:43] No name: so Bm will hang around
[00:57:55] Summer Barnes: BM got checked though
[00:57:59] Summer Barnes: and most everyone believes it
[00:58:09] Summer Barnes: also based on what you say than \echelontee is suspicious
[00:58:48] No name: he also looks bad here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13938569
[00:59:11] No name: because even though somebody could have thought that kurumi might be town
[01:00:00] No name: lynching him was overwhelmingly the best option town had
[01:00:13] No name: and he flipped scum which was good
[01:00:21] Summer Barnes: yeah
[01:00:51] No name: so having dodged my question on Jay would you care to give me your read on CURu?
[01:01:05] Summer Barnes: err what question?
[01:01:14] Summer Barnes: I didn't see any question, might be my internet
[01:01:28] Summer Barnes: when you asked I said refer to my recent in game post
[01:01:40] No name: [00:37] No name:

<<< it's fine
what do you make of jaybrundage?
[01:01:42] No name: [00:39] No name:

<<< what do you make of his case?
since he has one now
[01:01:47] Summer Barnes: that he seems like big jubjub but he hasn't done anything
[01:02:50] No name: maybe you should respond to it in the thread?
[01:02:57] No name: before the daypost
[01:04:22] Summer Barnes: oh I haven't looked recently
[01:04:26] No name: your internet is indeed dodgy..
[01:04:31] Summer Barnes: but still only took him a week -_-
[01:04:53] No name: right i really have to go now
[01:04:59] Summer Barnes: okay you do that
[01:05:01] No name: i am going to try to post more
[01:05:02] Summer Barnes: hopefully we will talk more
[01:05:07] Summer Barnes: yes
[01:05:12] No name: and if you are town then you need to do the same
[01:05:21] No name: ecause with the current atmosphere
[01:05:24] Summer Barnes: don't worry about me
[01:05:29] No name: scum have the win
[01:05:56] No name: and if you are town people need to know who you think the scum are
[01:06:18] Summer Barnes: I've been clear the entire game on who I think is mafia
[01:06:26] Summer Barnes: but you could stand to do that
[01:06:31] Summer Barnes: so I guess we both need to work on this lol
[01:07:00] No name: gnight

suck it curu