TL Mafia LII: JubJub Mafia
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layabout
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There are situations in which it may be advantageous to announce that you have been PM-ing a player. However, announcing who you are in contact with by default shares information that is of little use to town but that scum would benefit from knowing. For example, if an all-town PM circle was established and announced immediately scum would know that all the players were town and they could then react to this. 2. I like butter 3. Obligatory MS-Paint: + Show Spoiler + | ||
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On March 12 2012 00:00 Abenson wrote: My post can summarized as this: When did TL Mafia started allowing PM's again? That does not mean I am unaware of the fact that we can PM in this game. Maybe post that here instead? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133814 @Jitsu, what do you mean by player that lie should be "held accountable"? Are you suggesting that: We always lynch players that lie - a suggestion that is sort of bad. Or We consider that they have lied and then evaluate the player based on their overall play - since we should be doing this anyway this seems to be equivalent to suggesting we lynch the player that we think is most likely to flip mafia ? | ||
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On March 12 2012 01:20 Jitsu wrote: What do you think it means? Accountable means subject to the obligation to report, explain, or justify something; responsible; answerable. If a player lies, and can't do the above, we kill him. If he can justify it, and it's a logical and clearly visible motive, we don't. Why do you think a player who lies shouldn't be lynched? Is it you're opinion that lying isn't Anti-Town? Town lie all the time. Town make illogical moves all the time. Town play anti-town all the time. But if we think they are town we do not lynch them. | ||
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On March 12 2012 01:37 Jitsu wrote: So, a player that is, according to you: 1. lying 2. playing illogically 3. playing anti-town ...has the potential to not be lynched because we might think they are town? No. That person will be getting my vote, and I will be doing what I can to push for their lynch, especially if those three things come up. You can do whatever you want with your vote, I guess. The steps to overcoming the belief that town players will do what is best for town 1. Click on this link 2. Scroll down 3. When you reach the playerlist click on Toadesstern and rgtheschworz 4. Read through both fliters, paying particular attention to the numerous lies both of them make 5. Discover that townies lie, play anti-town and play illlogically 6. Apologise to layabout Jitsu, being able to guess whether or not a player is town or scum is quite difficult even if players are all acting sensibly. You have to learn to deal with the additional complexity introduced by players playing poorly, illogically or even against their own win condition. | ||
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On March 12 2012 04:01 Mattchew wrote: so can someone explain to me why keeping your talking buddies private is helpful to town? What i want to know is who people were talking to outside of thread before they die. It seems very helpful to scum to not reveal who they are PM'ing and kill them off if they are suspicious of them and we don't want to hold them accountable for being in talks with them? hmmm... it is pretty obvious and has been stated in part already. wait a minute On November 30 2011 07:47 Mattchew wrote: Layabout, I am not sure if you are town or scum, either way you are retarded and I hope to god that someone off's you quickly and you ragequit the mafia forum and I never have to read a post by you again. vote mattchew unless somebody claims scum i am killing this guy | ||
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I mean, look how scummy he is! He isn't even trying to derail the thread or bore people to death by beating already dead topics with a stick! Does anybody think it would be a bad idea to lynch jaybrundage? | ||
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"Hey guys lets talk about LaL" - i detest this the discussion is not productive and it rarely achieves anything "i shall vote for player as the game starts for no reason" - i may have done this myself, lets just move on "Hey i think we should share who we PM" - this is dumb pro-mafia sheeping "Lets be harsh on lurkers and try to make them post by playing like blazinghand" - easy to cause a day1 mislynch which you can avoid responsibilty for, not really helpful "If somebody you don't trust asks for your role it is okay for you to not give it to them" - this is a redundant point that looks almost like a contribution, but it is not. "We should also lynch all liars because i was in a game where a player that was quite clearly town lied and was lynched at endgame because nobody trusted him causing town to lose" - he seems very pro policy lynch doesn't he? "I still think that we should announce our PMs but i am less sure than i was earlier because i am not sure if town are buying this crap" "lets lynch into this *arbitrary lynch of players yet to post" because by saying we should kill lurkers i can avoiding forcing analysis". so yeah lets kill Jaybrundage Vote: jaybrundage | ||
layabout
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Whilst we could debate the "should we announce our neighbours issue" further, this is the internet, nobody is obliged to admit they are wrong at any point and it is very hard to agree upon a conclusion. Furthermore there is next to no chance of everyone actually following that plan anyway. It has acted as a conversation starter but we need to move away from it and I am going go read some of callers old games and/or sleep. | ||
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On March 12 2012 08:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I would call you scum for making these worthless announcements but Storm Mafia is giving me some hesitations. We should have nailed WBG from the start, I laid the foundation wait until storm ends before we start talking about it | ||
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Was it the narrative at the begin that was suppoosed to address the case against him? Was it was the "you called my case flimsy, how about i address none of your points and clarify none of my points and pretend to have refuted your criticism?" Or maybe it was the I cannot be bothered to think of somehthing to say about layabout part? | ||
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This is the reasoning that i support http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13887020 His tone looks like his scum tone My only reservation is that Town Jackal is slow to establish his innocence and he tends to look a bit scummy at the beginning of almost every game. ##voteJackal58 | ||
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I am not moving my vote. | ||
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Hey フシギソウ leave バタフリー alone! | ||
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On March 13 2012 06:28 gumshoe wrote: Can someone summarize the case against node for me He is a "wishy washy sheep". I think that's it. | ||
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If Jackal is lying about his role, it should be exposed fairly soon and we would be able to lynch him if this were to happen. If Jackal is not lying then whether his role is beneficial to town or not, he is town and we should not lynch him. So we really do not have to lynch him. The main problem that we face is that we are running short on time and the other candidates look green. I think Jitsu is town. I think caller is town. I also think that i need to sleep. I want to post this + Show Spoiler [click for win] + Kurumi is not trolling. It follows that he is probably scum. ##Vote Kurumi but it is too late for that. Instead: DocH who of the current lynch targets would you least like to lynch? | ||
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Since its extended majority lynch we are going to have to make more of an effort to produce good lynch targets and then get together to lynch one off them. Question to thread: How often do you encounter genuine "scumslips", as in a player will post as if they have information that they should not have (like knowledge that somebody is town) and that player turns out to be Mafia? And if that does happen, how often had the player also given themselves away as Mafia through their behaviour meaning that the scumslip itself was not necessary to determine their alignment? | ||
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All he seems to do is spread negativity and encourage aimless discussion. His most significant "scumhunting" posts are about Jackal and ViceraEyes. His post about Jackal comes just after caller's case and it seems to be centered around theidea that he would not expect a town Jackal to think that caller looked scummy On March 12 2012 08:06 prplhz wrote: Yea, I don't know about this jaybrundage lynch either. I don't think Caller is a good lynch either. The guy is being useless but I don't think there's anything particularly scummy about the way he is doing it. Even in the face of a lot of townies disliking him he's not doing anything to stop this and his lynch isn't really facing any resistance either. The only real resistance is the jaybrundage lynch which is quite bad, the guy isn't really acting scummy. He's putting himself out there with tons of dumb ideas and no fear at all and that's pretty townie. The Caller lynch seems like something that Jackal58 would oppose in his characteristic laconic, passive aggressive manner. Caller is being dumb but he's being blatant about it and there's nothing scummy about that and Jackal58 is usually one of the first to notice stuff like that. The fact that I've been on board the Caller-is-scummy-idea since the beginning seems like something that would make a town Jackal58 think everything over twice. I'm pretty sure he thinks that I'm a horrible player who only does horrible things + Show Spoiler + . Instead he is pushing it in a very meek way with his "forgive me" and "sir". I think that Jackal58 is scum. ##Vote Jackal58 He appears to be calling Jackal scum for doing the same thing that he (prphlz) did himself. The "forgive me" and "sir" may just be manner. I believe the OP instructs us to use it, it is not a "scumtell". Other than that he his "meta" "argument" is extremely vague and there is next to nothing in this post that should justify a vote. + Show Spoiler [prplhz probably dislikes you] + "Your little matrix is extremely naïve, borderline dumb." "OP was written 12 days ago. What's your excuse for not reading it?" "The only real resistance is the jaybrundage lynch which is quite bad" "He's putting himself out there with tons of dumb ideas and no fear at all and that's pretty townie." "Caller had written short derpy posts so far" On March 13 2012 05:44 prplhz wrote: Oh sorry about that, I'm tired. You still suck DoctorHelvetica. On March 13 2012 16:44 prplhz wrote: You're all JubJubs for not lynching Jackal58. On March 14 2012 07:14 prplhz wrote: Jackal58 you fucking shoot tonight if you're actually town. On March 14 2012 07:20 prplhz wrote: That's pretty stupid but I'm not going to tell you why. Is it usual for prphlz to be so negative about other peoples play? He keeps throwing insults about people's play around rather than making legitimate or potentially constructive criticisms. He is casting doubt on players for no particular reason. He is spreading distrust. He is also quick to inflate minute and unimportant to distract from looking for scum: + Show Spoiler + i am a little bored, think i will just post He is not trying to help us find scum. | ||
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Do you think a town-aligned Kurumi would act as he has acted so far? | ||
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##vote prphlz | ||
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On March 15 2012 09:16 Katina wrote: I still think Mattchew is mafia. 1. He asks a lot of questions and doesn't do much else 2. He uses a lot of animations which makes it seems like an attempt to contribute when it's really not Wherebugsgo posted a lot of pictures and gifs in storm mafia and he was mafia that game. WBG was posting gifs because he thought that it would be funny. I am fairly sure that Mattchew is not posting animations to make himself look like he is contributing. | ||
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On March 16 2012 01:47 Jackal58 wrote: Vigs that shoot night one are almost always wrong. They are almost always stupid. Like the dumbshit that shot me in Storm. I choose my own levels of dumbassery. So far that's been limited to blowing you up. I guess it's your turn. BloodyC0bbler was the one that wanted us to shoot you night 1, and so mafia did. Is anybody is PM contact with Bill Murray? He does not seem to be playing, he promised a case on decondo 2 days ago and he has not said much since then. Are you guys sure about Kurumi? I think there is a decent chance he will flip town. | ||
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Instead look at games like thishttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=2this54174&user=68386 and other games here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=mafia&t=c&f=-1&u=Kurumi&gb=date&d=&p=2 If you want to get an idea of his typical day 1 town play. You might want to take a look at his scum play too, and realise that this doesn't look much like it. | ||
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EBWOP: On March 16 2012 03:17 layabout wrote: jitsu, since he replaced into storm on day 3 or 4, storm is perhaps not the best example of is town play. Instead look at games like this and this or his other games here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=mafia&t=c&f=-1&u=Kurumi&gb=date&d=&p=2 If you want to get an idea of his typical day 1 town play. You might want to take a look at his scum play too, and realise that this doesn't look much like it. Is it okay to vote like this? On March 15 2012 23:45 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Moving the game along, mostly because I don't have anything better to say about anyone else. I'll post some stuff tonight, closer to deadline. ##Vote: Kurumi Speaking of dumb votes, On March 15 2012 23:23 Mattchew wrote: ##vote kurumi I wonder why this is.... Oh! this is why: On March 16 2012 03:09 Mattchew wrote: Hi guys. We are lynching Kurumi today because it is the right thing to do. His "role" or defense of Jackal or w.e it is, is completely stupid. Him and Jackal have both caused chaos and shitfits for the past 3 days in the thread, and we need to move on past this. There is an extremely high chance of flipping scum and he is playing really badly. Key points: Kurumi is playing bad Kurumi and jackal have "caused chaos" nothing of note Attention! We are supposed to vote in this thread as well as in the voting thread! On March 14 2012 12:01 Protactinium wrote: + Show Spoiler [snip] + Day 2 Liquid`Sheth has been liquified. VisceraEyes has been jubjubified. It is now Day 2. You have 48 hours to cast your votes. Day 2 ends at 8PM PDT on Thursday. (03:00 GMT (+00:00) your time). Please vote both in this thread and in the voting thread. Only votes that are in the voting thread will count, however. | ||
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I propose prp, sent or drH | ||
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On March 15 2012 04:45 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I've been second guessing myself about Caller all game. I fail to see how that's scummy at all. In fact I've flip flopped a lot less than I usually do as town. Read AC or Storm, it's upsetting how inconsistent I am. That's an almost undeniable scumslip by Kurumi there. Everyone should vote for Kurumi. and explain it here On March 15 2012 05:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Because Kurumi knows what roles are in the game i.e. he is mafia I don't think that justifies all of the negativity you are bringing into the thread, maybe you could give us a wall of text that at least looks like a credible case? | ||
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On March 16 2012 07:01 Curu wrote: prplhz you should go vote for Kurumi. You too Caller. That puts us at majority. The rest of the nonvoters are either scummy as fuck (EchelonTree, Katina, layabout), not even playing the game (Bill Murray, rgTheSchworz, Pandain), or presumably dead (Jackal58). I don't know what to make of gumshoe, I'd have to go read his posts. Jackal buddy boy you should go vote for Kurumi too in case Palmar was bluffing. explain why i am scummy | ||
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In light of what has happened since that post i don't think i can still vote for him based on "kurumi is not trolling therefore he is probably scum" | ||
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gogo voteswitch to random lurker ##vote Abension And with great reluctance ... ##vote Kurumi | ||
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Upon reflection i have concluded that this was dumb. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + From: Bill Murray [ 5179 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/13/12 18:37 + Show Spoiler + From: Bill Murray [ 5179 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/14/12 12:08 Original Message From Bill Murray: i didnt even know deconduo was in the game i will definitely want to get a read on him first thing + Show Spoiler + From: Bill Murray [ 5179 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/14/12 12:29 + Show Spoiler + From: Bill Murray [ 5179 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/16/12 14:56 | ||
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Who did Palmar roleclaim to? I thought that caller was just saying he would shoot Palmar to discourage scum from shooting at either of them during the night. I do not see why Caller would have shot Palmar if caller is town. Shooting a player at that time is anti-town (especially if that player has an investigate ability that they might want to share). Shooting a Player that was masoned by a flipped mafia player is horrendous since that very fact suggests they are town. Shooting the player that hammered the sucessful scum lynch that was almost a no-lynch is horrendous since that fact suggests that they are town. Shooting a player without first explaining why to town suggests that you can't explain why. | ||
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On day1 made a case against Jackal but did not actively push it. Instead he argued with visceraeyes, making pretty baseless accusations against him: + Show Spoiler + On March 13 2012 05:27 Caller wrote: Look at this scumslip. He already knows what Jackal is. I can think of one reason why. I specifically said that no matter if Jackal is town or mafia that you're setting yourself up to reap the reward of knowing ahead of time what Jackal is. As a result. I'm trying to stop you. You're saying that you had previously defended a mafiaso and you're never doing it again. The trouble here is, you're defending Jackal. So you therefore seem to know that Jackal is NOT mafia, and since you know his role DAY 1, this leads me to conclude that you're... Its quite simple: we lynch Jackal. If he comes up mafia, hurray. If he's not mafia, VisceraEyes must be mafia. One last thing: I don't use "think" and "theory." More false doubt... more mafia tactics. He told us that we should lynch VE if Jackal flips town. Do you think he had a reason to this this as town? Do you think his point is credible? + Show Spoiler + +5 science collaboration points to those who answered "no" He decides to kill Palmar but never tells the thread why. On March 13 2012 23:18 Caller wrote: whatever. ve i'm laying off you for now, i trust palmar's judgement. keep tunnel visioning and chasing red herrings though, although i personally suggest you look at the people i've been accusing (cough jackal and drh) regardless of how shitty you may think my reasoning is. From this it should be safe to infer that caller thought that Palmar was town. But Caller has a change of heart because of .....? Maybe he was mad: + Show Spoiler + On March 14 2012 00:12 Caller wrote: if i die tonight palmar is mafia just sayin' Maybe he knew that Kurumi his team mate Kurumi was in trouble and wanted to use Palmar's indefference to the Kurumi lynch as an excuse to kill him: + Show Spoiler + On March 15 2012 00:15 Caller wrote: You guys are having fun, so I'm going to focus on the real issues. Kurumi, you are an insult to Poles everywhere. The only thing you had to contribute in the past 24 hours was how I was not actually Polish. How dare you. More importantly than that, you pull this random trolling shit every time I've played with you for the last like 4 games. And you've also been mafia for those 4 games. I don't even need to cite evidence-people should perfectly understand how terribly you've been playing. If you have anything to say for yourself you should say it. Damn scum. tldr FOS KURUMI Palmar comments on Kurumi On March 15 2012 21:51 Palmar wrote: probably not going to flip scum though. he's just bleurgh What ever the reason, he did not feel like it was worth telling the thread. On March 15 2012 21:54 Caller wrote: That's okay Palmar, go ahead, I was going to shoot you tomorrow anyways. This'll save me the trouble of having to organize this case properly. We then received more information that made Palmar look town (the PM detective and hammer) and caller shoots palmar as the very start of the day. If Caller had waited longer, it would have become far more difficult for him to shoot Palmar. Yesterday he decided to shoot Palmar he committed himself to it in the thread. So if he wanted to use his dayshot on Palmar he would have to do it immediately and hope to get away with it. | ||
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although it seems he is dead already. | ||
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On March 17 2012 15:18 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I really love all the talk about different lurkers, but while you're arguing that, you should also place scrutiny into this group: Mr. Wiggles Deconduo Caller Curu Dr. H prplhz Bill Murray Roughly a quarter of the game is scum, and considering balance, at least one, if not two of the people on this list are scum. I know I'm town, and I'm pretty certain Decon is town, so that leaves 5 other names. containing something like one or two scum. I'm going to read over these people's filters, and see what I can find. I suggest you do the same thing. If we decide not to lynch into this list today, that's fine, as it's likely that people from this list will continue dying night by night, and as they do, the list will become smaller, and thus pressure on the scum in it should increase, if you keep it in mind. Just don't enter the endgame with only one person from here alive, and not consider the possibility that they're a flaming red mafioso. Wiggles, how did you come up with this list? | ||
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When i opened the thread caller already had 7 votes, i then explained why i agreed with lynching him and he went up to 8 votes (thanks to abension), i wanted us to have a discussion or perhaps multiple candidates for the lynch but caller was hammered so fast the thread has basically reached a standstill. I decided to add my vote because i did (and still do) think that caller was the best lynch. | ||
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On March 19 2012 06:14 Curu wrote: It's a death wish for scum to defend Caller at this point, especially given how likely it is many of them were trying for a Kurumi no lynch. Interesting to note that both layabout and Katina refused to vote for Kurumi and only jumped on this Caller lynch when it was 100% certain he was going to die. On March 11 2012 13:25 ZBot wrote: Day 2 Vote Count With 20 alive, its 11 to lynch Current votes: Kurumi (11): jaybrundage, DoctorHelvetica, Curu, deconduo, Jitsu, Abenson, Palmar (2): Jackal58, Caller Bill Murray (2): Abenson (1): Kurumi Mattchew (1): Bill Murray DoctorHelvetica (1): Katina jaybrundage (0): Jackal58 (0): Caller (0): prplhz (0): Not voting: rgTheSchworz, prplhz The Day deadline is at 2012-03-16 12:00:00. (It's over.) Note: prplhz voted for rgTheSchworz but with incorrect formatting. Curu why are you lying? | ||
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On March 19 2012 08:06 jaybrundage wrote: The more I think of this lynch the more i think Caller is gonna flip town. :/ Why would he completely stop posting after shooting Palmar if he was the town dayvig? (with what appears to be multiple shots) | ||
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I know that Palmar got to lynch Jackal on day2 so i am geussing that the "king" power was lost with Palmar yes? | ||
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On March 17 2012 13:50 Mattchew wrote: i dont know who he checked last night he was gonna tell me close to deadline but wasnt around... and then was shot by some jubjub before he got back On March 20 2012 01:15 Mattchew wrote: people that didn't vote kurumi Jackal58, Caller, EchelonTee, gumshoe, Bill Murray, Katina Town, Scum, EchelonTee, Town, Bill Murray, Katina Bill Murray is checked town by Palmar (OMG NEW INFO) he told this to me before his death post EchelonTee has been nothing but towny in outside thread convo with me Katina has supposedly known about a blue role and yet that player has not died. All 3 remaining non-BM voters are very town to me sandroba you should use your PM on me ##vote mattchew well that was easy | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + From: Mr. Wiggles [ 3803 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/16/12 05:25 hahahahahahahaah. Why do you think that Mattchew should be closer to town than scum? Same thing with Palmar? From: Mr. Wiggles [ 3803 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/16/12 05:47 Yes, I'm getting the feeling that Palmar could be scum. He came in, and acted like town Palmar would, but then he didn't actually proceed to push any lynches or scum reads in the thread. Instead, he got a whole bunch of people to PM him and roleclaim. Also worrying to me, is that Pandain PMed me before he replaced out, and since Palmar has replaced in, he has not tried to talk to me besides asking me to roleclaim twice. Meanwhile, in the thread, he's said that he's talked extensively with Mattchew and VE, as well as Caller. It seems weird to me especially when he says he's on the fence about me, as talking to me would be a good way to determine my alignment. I might just be paranoid, but it could be that he's afraid I'll peg him as scum if we talk, because I've done it twice before when he was third party/traitor, one of those being a PM game where we talked a fair bit, and once in a game where he was scum. I'm keeping my eye on him, anyways, and if he's telling the truth about killing Jackal, and Jackal flips town, he should be shot on night 2, I'd think. Mattchew, I feel has just not actually been contributing much to the game, while posting in a way that makes him look like he's doing stuff. Last time I read his filter, it was all commentary on what was happening, or one liners calling someone out without any follow-up. Original Message From layabout: It is mostly due to the fact that i am not confident enough in my reads to put anybody in the red section, so they end up there because all of the players below them look worse than them or are completely null. For now i am leaning town on both. I haven't moved mattchew since the start of day2, he has seemed quite genuine in his actions and i still think he is. Palmar was there because when he came into the thread he took charge. The things he said made sense to me and i felt like he was leading town in the right direction. However his recent posting is worrying. I am not sure why he is posting as if his emotions are impeding him, since in the past he has proven that even when he looks like a troll there is a purpose behind his posting. I do not buy his "i am never replacing into a game again" rubbish. When i was killed in Werewolves II i stopped following it but his play here is starting to look similar to it. I also received this after i had gone to sleep before the Kurumi lynch + Show Spoiler + From: Mr. Wiggles [ 3803 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/16/12 11:46 [quote]Original Message From Mr. Wiggles: I think he's one of the best bets for this lynch. He hasn't actually defended the accusations of faking his action PM, either. I don't see why the mods would write it like that, and if they did, I consider it border-line bastard modding, especially in a normal game, and if not everyone's PMs are phrased that way. Using mod PMs to look at someone is normally bad, or not allowed in the case of role PMs, but it's also normal, in a way, as faking a role requires faking the mechanics, and it becomes a way to tell if someone's lying. It means that scum can't completely fake roles and not be called out on it for how they word it, or make it. It's like if I claimed to be a Bullet-Proof townie, and said my role PM was the first act of Hamlet. If people can start doing that, it will change the way mechanics surrounding blues work, and how they're dealt with in the thread. So basically, if his PM was actually worded that way, it means the mods worded it that way, to make sure that if Kurumi shared it with anyone, they would think he is lying, which is a shitty thing to do, because then you're actively interfering with and influencing the game as it goes on as the mod, as roleclaims are part of the game. [quote]Original Message From layabout: Are you sure about Kurumi?[/quote] From: Mr. Wiggles [ 3803 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: mafia Date: 3/16/12 12:54 So why were you doubting about Kurumi being scum? skype log from night 1 + Show Spoiler + No name=layabout Jesse Huard= Mr. wiggels [13/03/2012 22:00:52] No name: hello [13/03/2012 22:01:06] Jesse Huard: hey [13/03/2012 22:01:33] No name: any scumreads? i am stumped [13/03/2012 22:02:04] Jesse Huard: I"m debating about prpl/caller [13/03/2012 22:02:17] Jesse Huard: and then node/decon are afk, which is always scummy of them [13/03/2012 22:02:32] No name: has decon done anything? [13/03/2012 22:02:44] No name: other than tell me that sometimes its okay to kill town [13/03/2012 22:03:00] Jesse Huard: he voted for caller in the thread, and not the voting one [13/03/2012 22:03:48] No name: i thought caller looked likely town [13/03/2012 22:04:16] Jesse Huard: for what reasons? [13/03/2012 22:04:20] No name: but i am unsure why people feel he looks scummy [13/03/2012 22:04:26] No name: towards the start [13/03/2012 22:04:37] No name: he was trying to direct discussion towards the lynch [13/03/2012 22:04:49] No name: the DocH thing was a bit strange [13/03/2012 22:05:15] No name: but given that "Kaller game" is named after him i expected him to do something weird [13/03/2012 22:05:53] No name: though i would to skim some of his old games before making that kind a meta judgement [13/03/2012 22:06:24] Jesse Huard: Well, what looks weird to me, isn't really that he made a case on Jackal, or the weird DrH accusation, but more what happened afterwards [13/03/2012 22:06:42] No name: he went quiet? [13/03/2012 22:06:45] Jesse Huard: Instead of actually pushing for the jackal lynch, he spent all his time calling VE scum [13/03/2012 22:07:01] Jesse Huard: and saying that if jackal flips town, we lynch VE the next day [13/03/2012 22:07:14] No name: without a good reason for saying so [13/03/2012 22:07:24] Jesse Huard: Why wouldn't you try to ensure your first suspect is actually lynched? [13/03/2012 22:07:53] Jesse Huard: Then, why do you reveal the stuff about VE, when it would be much more powerful all at once, and if it depends on the flip, after you see the flip [13/03/2012 22:08:36] Jesse Huard: Also, the stuff he says, is pretty contradictory [13/03/2012 22:09:09] Jesse Huard: He calls VE out for what he sees as trying to set himself up to look good no matter what the flip is, while he does the same thing himself [13/03/2012 22:09:36] Jesse Huard: also, it's kind've weird, because if he was mafia, he should know what the flip is, so I don't get what he's saying, in a way [13/03/2012 22:10:00] Jesse Huard: if VE was mafia, he should know what the flip is, so why would he set himself up to look good both ways, according to caller* [13/03/2012 22:11:32] No name: plus the "thank you prplhz stuff" read like nonsense [13/03/2012 22:12:04] Jesse Huard: yeah, I can't tell yet, whether he's actually scum, or just throwing crap around, though [13/03/2012 22:14:01] No name: It's seems a little odd [13/03/2012 22:14:46] No name: that most of his accusations against Jackal were based upon him criticising his own bad reasoning and suggesting "a plan" [13/03/2012 22:15:48] No name: when Jackal probably is the role he claimed and he managed to start a discussion that was not all that bad [13/03/2012 22:16:12] No name: and i think that was all he intended to do when he said we should announce PM's [13/03/2012 22:16:57] Jesse Huard: yeah [13/03/2012 22:17:03] Jesse Huard: Also, the idea had some merits [13/03/2012 22:17:42] Jesse Huard: Well, I'm going to go do some homework, now, I'll be back later. If you want to write stuff to me, I'll read it when I get back [13/03/2012 22:17:51] No name: cool [13/03/2012 22:21:08] No name: Now in my experience "scumslips" are not very common so when caller says he found one in this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13896263 , i think that he is trying to make people doubt VE whilst making himself look useful [13/03/2012 22:23:00] No name: In spite of all of the accusations leveled against Jitsu and in spite of my argument with him i believe he has town's interest in mind when he is posting [13/03/2012 22:24:03] No name: his vote for prp is terrible [13/03/2012 22:25:20] No name: I am in contact with Bill Murray,we have not said much due to crappy timezones [13/03/2012 22:31:36] No name: Jaybrundage: when i read this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13887349 i thought like Jay showed that his actions make more sense from a town persctive than scum one [13/03/2012 22:34:20] No name: i do not see why mafia would defend themself by saying that basically all they have done so far had been to fish for reactions [13/03/2012 22:36:38] No name: when he says " I say i do agree with lynching liars and Lurkers. However i suggest we use them as guidelines. " i he is making a mute point, that he did not need to make in the first place and that he didn't need to emphasise [13/03/2012 22:37:05] No name: I also think its strange that Jaybrundage says he thinks Kurumi would be the traitor, since I find it very difficult to figure out Kurumi's motivations for posting and he is not always serious. [13/03/2012 22:37:38] No name: I do not see why you would be speculating about the traitor like that as town [13/03/2012 22:39:25] No name: So Wiggles, when you are looking for scum do you differentiate between scum and traitors? and if you think a player is one of the two and you want to lynch them, wouldn't you call them scum rather than traitor as that is more likely to sway people to lynch them? [14/03/2012 02:20:07] Jesse Huard: When I look for scum, the first thing I do is just look for them acting scummily. If it's a game with multiple factions, i.e. 2 mafia families, sk and mafia, mafia and traitors, I might try to differentiate between them, especially if my read relies on associative tells [14/03/2012 02:21:01] Jesse Huard: If I had a choice between scum and traitor, and if the traitor wasn't called out as a traitor, I'd lynch the scum. Th e thing is, you can't be 100% sure, so if you think they're scum, you lynch them no matter if they might be traitor or normal mafia [14/03/2012 02:21:52] Jesse Huard: I'd probably just call them scum, but I think that's more of a personal choice, as people don't always follow optimal play, and it might just be an oversight [14/03/2012 02:22:27] Jesse Huard: personally, if I was the traitor, it seems pretty hard to actually get added to the scum team, so what I'd do instead, is just try to cause as much chaos in the town as I could [14/03/2012 02:23:25] Jesse Huard: this doesn't neccessarily mean act like Kurumi is, but it could be something like push a bunch of cases I know are wrong, to waste town's time, and push bad cases, or oppose things, and make stuff difficult. Basically, act as anti-town as I could, while passing it off as bad play, and avoid the lynch +##unvote i don't know what to conclude | ||
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I just realised that i am going to be busy tomorrow, which sucks I think that abenson is the safer lynch option and that wiggles' flip would be more useful for town. | ||
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##Vote: Abenson The problem with lynching somebody that doesn't post much is that there is much to talk about. I think that we should do our utmost to find the other scum now rather than when a few more of us have been killed off at night. I am not sold on wiggles, what makes him worse than say Dr.H? | ||
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I think that kurumi was probably the traitor because if that is true then his play actually makes sense. Do others agree or disagree with this? If he was not the traitor then if the real traitor would have contacted kurumi and then joined the mafia or failing that + Show Spoiler + because some derps actually thought kurumi might be town, i mean can you believe it? i know right? they would have contacted caller the next day when it became clear that absolutely everybody was voting for him and he was probably scum. So if Kurumi was not the traitor we could come up with a narrow down our suspects with a list of players that could have made private contact with either Kurumi or caller. a quick look here shows that only [UoN]sentinel and DrH were in contact with them. + Show Spoiler + I am also wondering how reliable that spreadsheet is | ||
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Thoughts on Curu? Thoughts on Dr.H? | ||
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A mafia had 1.5KP which was rounded up to 2. Mafia have recruited the traitor. This person is likely Dr.H, but it could possibly be sentinel, and there is an outside chance of it being some other random fool that managed to be recruited without contacting the obvious scum. + Show Spoiler [unlikely stuff] + Or There was a town vig that shot mattchew or sandroba (which is unlikely). Or Mafia have a role such as a poisoner which has given them an extra KP (which is silly) Or Mattchew or sandroba was some kind of weak doctor/hider | ||
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Why do we think he is town again? | ||
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On March 24 2012 04:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: EBWOP owait do I have to write it in here too? ##Vote: Deconduo sent tell us what you think about Wiggles | ||
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Here goes, ##vote Mr. Wiggles My reasons: He has been in private contact with many of the people in the thread and he has shown lot's of signs that he cares about and is thinking about the game. For instance he has posted quite detailed explanations about issues that are easy to write about + Show Spoiler + [14/03/2012 02:20:07] Jesse Huard: When I look for scum, the first thing I do is just look for them acting scummily. If it's a game with multiple factions, i.e. 2 mafia families, sk and mafia, mafia and traitors, I might try to differentiate between them, especially if my read relies on associative tells [14/03/2012 02:21:01] Jesse Huard: If I had a choice between scum and traitor, and if the traitor wasn't called out as a traitor, I'd lynch the scum. Th e thing is, you can't be 100% sure, so if you think they're scum, you lynch them no matter if they might be traitor or normal mafia [14/03/2012 02:21:52] Jesse Huard: I'd probably just call them scum, but I think that's more of a personal choice, as people don't always follow optimal play, and it might just be an oversight [14/03/2012 02:22:27] Jesse Huard: personally, if I was the traitor, it seems pretty hard to actually get added to the scum team, so what I'd do instead, is just try to cause as much chaos in the town as I could [14/03/2012 02:23:25] Jesse Huard: this doesn't neccessarily mean act like Kurumi is, but it could be something like push a bunch of cases I know are wrong, to waste town's time, and push bad cases, or oppose things, and make stuff difficult. Basically, act as anti-town as I could, while passing it off as bad play, and avoid the lynch But in thread his primary actions have been to push lurkers and occasionally ask questions. He has displayed little-to-no desire to provide original helpful content. + Show Spoiler [I am not sure why i wrote this] + Today each of us should have at least a few people that we consider likely town and thus a small pool of players that we think could be scum and would be willing to lynch. If anybody is still playing then you only have to look into that pool and pick the person you think looks worst. Also, Do you think Wiggles cares about today's lynch? + Show Spoiler [his posting today] + On March 23 2012 12:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Did Caller claim both of his picks, or only Sentinel? Also, I think scum might have been PMing people fishing for the traitor, just look at Caller and Sentinel. On March 24 2012 15:17 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Deconduo, what do you actually think of Dr. H's behaviour? On March 25 2012 03:10 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I haven't lived to the late game in forever, it feels like. What are we supposed to be doing right now? It seems like we've ground to a halt, and that's probably not a good sign. On March 25 2012 07:50 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What does that have to do with anything? I actually think I haven't been shot because my reads are off, and I'm being pushed as scum in the thread. Instead, the people calling me scum were shot, and now you're in here trying to use them to push my lynch. Why are you acting so desperate? the correct answer is no ##vote Mr. Wiggles | ||
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On March 25 2012 09:15 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I'm trying to figure out if Decon's info actually means anything, and if he thinks Dr. H's behaviour matches what he's saying. He doesn't post though, so I can't learn anything about it. I think one of you or EchelonTee are scum, because scum wouldn't not PM me, especially if they aren't planning on shooting me. I'm leaning towards EchelonTee because of the fact that he never shared anything substantial in PM while constantly asking me what I thought, and then asking about Palmar and Matt. I told him I thought they could still be scum, and then I don't die, they do, and he tries to use that to push a mislynch on me. So what if I spent more time in PMs than spamming up the thread? I didn't need to scumhunt in the thread, because there were obvious scum in it, so I could instead spend my time trying to collect information. Lynching me is dumb. I'm voting EchelonTee. If people still care about the game, they can try to convince me otherwise. What information have you gathered that is of use? A vote for echelontee at this moment is a throwaway vote and it makes it harded for us to agree on a candidate. The choice today is between you and Dr.H, is it not? | ||
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Would you like to comment on the pile of bodies that told us to lynch you? | ||
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This game is getting progressively less fun. | ||
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On March 27 2012 06:38 DoctorHelvetica wrote: What do you want me to say about the night hits? I had no part in it so I can only assume they're using hits to push mislynches or are blue sniping. Jaybrundage is who we should lynch today. I believe that he was the traitor and was recruited some point around Cycle 2 or 3. Mafia will be careful with their buses until they pick up the traitor. An early bus without traitor means that scum lose their ability to use a .5 power and 2 hits. It makes sense that they would bus after picking up the traitor. The sharp turnaround in the playstyle of Jaybrundage is what makes me suspect him. After a scummy and wishywashy Day 1 he turns around and acts very brash and confident, asks for roleclaims, etc. He also tried pretty hard to get himself further town cred off the Kurumi lynch which I still think was a bus. If it was not a bus, the scum team was very very stupid to think that the town would buy Kurumi's claim and they also had no real reason to stop Jackal from getting lynched other than the hopes that he might shoot a town player at some point later in the game. Seeing as he had threatened Caller before, I think that's pretty unlikely. Look who tried to get the cred off of that lynch, look who used it to set himself up for the rest of the game. Hint - it wasn't me. You are not going to convince anybody with that. If a scumteam had just picked up another member, (giving themselves 2.5 KP) why would they immediately bus? If there is a mislynch then 1 townie dies to the lynch and they can then carry out 3 hits or 1 or 2 hits and more actions, but by bussing they gain some day2 town cred which will not last long they lose a member and a kill and/or actions during the night. Also if you look at the vote count for the Kurumi lynch: On March 11 2012 13:25 ZBot wrote: Day 2 Vote Count With 20 alive, its 11 to lynch Current votes: Kurumi (11): jaybrundage, DoctorHelvetica, Curu, deconduo, Jitsu, Abenson, Palmar (2): Jackal58, Caller Bill Murray (2): Abenson (1): Kurumi Mattchew (1): Bill Murray DoctorHelvetica (1): Katina jaybrundage (0): Jackal58 (0): Caller (0): prplhz (0): Not voting: rgTheSchworz, prplhz The Day deadline is at 2012-03-16 12:00:00. (It's over.) We can see that the everyone on the lynch to flip so far has been green. You are suggesting that the first person on Kurumi (jaybrundage) was scum bussing him. Many of those votes came quite late and the no-lynch nearly happened. Scum were not forced to bus. But you are telling us to lynch jaybrundage because you believe that mafia bussed even though it would have been unnecessary and to their detriment. | ||
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On March 27 2012 06:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Consider also the only person to push a case on me with genuine analysis was Katina who survived. Sandroba's death is irrelevant in regards to me because I have no way of knowing his private conversations with Curu, he never expressed this sentiment in the thread and tbh from what Curu posted it seems like he wasn't even really that sure about it. Since players expressed a wish to lynch Katina it makes sense that Katina survived, since katina is either scum (who scum would prefer to remain alive) or a potential mislynch target (who it scum would prefer to remain alive). | ||
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From: Bill Murray Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/27/12 06:36 if someone had a guilty on echelontee, and i knew deconduo was this person's counterclaim theoretically, given the setup, deconduo would be mafia, right? From: Bill Murray [ 5219 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/27/12 06:36 i don't mind if you share anything i don't really trust you enough to share anything with you | ||
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I suppose there is this... + Show Spoiler + To: Bill Murray [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/26/12 08:51 logs with Katina: [25/03/2012 03:27:48] Summer Barnes: One day we will be on at the same time! [00:16:10] No name: i will have to sleep soon [00:16:30] No name: but i might as well dump some thoughts and let you think about them [00:16:40] Summer Barnes: okay [00:16:56] No name: I think that Dr.H has been unusually confident thins game [00:17:21] No name: he has not second geussed himself (openly) very much and that seems strange [00:17:58] No name: he was very confident when telling people to vote for Kurumi and when he opposed the Abension lynch [00:18:51] No name: scum would have known that he was right when he posted [00:19:05] No name: but as town the calls were not so easy to make [00:19:38] No name: Echelon Tee made this post a while back [00:20:10] No name: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13993762 [00:20:55] Summer Barnes: what about that post? [00:21:43] No name: he made it the night after the caller lynch [00:22:10] No name: and we have gone on to lynch both of those players and they flipped town [00:22:37] Summer Barnes: do you think hes mafia then? [00:22:52] No name: Wiggles did [00:23:03] No name: i think i do [00:23:16] No name: he has also avoided talking about DR.H [00:23:22] Summer Barnes: you think? lol [00:23:32] Summer Barnes: is that true? [00:23:50] No name: is what true? [00:24:02] Summer Barnes: he has avoided drh? [00:24:03] No name: he only mentions him at the end of the day [00:24:13] No name: when he mentions that sandro pushed wiggels more [00:25:36] Summer Barnes: do you think deconduo is mafia? [00:26:00] No name: it's possible [00:26:10] No name: but i am working on the assumtion that he is town [00:26:41] No name: have you read his Pm logs with wiggles? [00:27:03] Summer Barnes: if you think that then who's the last mafia [00:28:07] No name: at the moment mafia team is something like ET DrH and BM/Sent [00:28:33] No name: The main problem is that everybody has been so inactive [00:28:50] Summer Barnes: BM should die either tonight or tomorrow if hes town [00:28:54] No name: including me [00:29:09] No name: that mafia can easily get away with not posting [00:29:13] Summer Barnes: mafia will shoot him cause he's confirmed [00:29:40] No name: and the thread has come to a standstill [00:30:07] No name: nobody is put under any real pressure [00:30:36] No name: so most of my reads have been the same for like a week [00:31:12] No name: and the ones that have died were town reads anyway [00:31:50] No name: it's pretty likely that there is at least 1 mafia player that is doing nothing [00:35:58] No name: have you read through dead players filters? [00:36:39] Summer Barnes: no not entirely [00:36:55] Summer Barnes: and sorry my internet gets funky at times [00:37:52] No name: it's fine [00:38:01] No name: what do you make of jaybrundage? [00:38:25] Summer Barnes: what I said in my most recent post [00:38:35] Summer Barnes: pretty sure hes a big jubjub [00:38:40] Summer Barnes: but at the same time [00:38:53] Summer Barnes: he hasnt done anything [00:39:13] No name: what do you make of his case? [00:39:25] No name: since he has one now [00:40:43] No name: damn funky internet... [00:42:49] No name: you there? [00:44:18] Summer Barnes: yes [00:44:39] Summer Barnes: only took him like a week to get that case out -_- [00:45:44] No name: i don't think either of us have been active enough to be able to make such a criticism [00:46:50] No name: so jay... [00:47:40] No name: like i really need to go [00:47:47] No name: answer! To: Bill Murray [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: Re: JubJub Mafia Date: 3/26/12 09:08 rest of it [00:45:44] No name: i don't think either of us have been active enough to be able to make such a criticism [00:46:50] No name: so jay... [00:47:40] No name: like i really need to go [00:47:47] No name: answer! [00:56:19] Summer Barnes: so demanding! [00:56:31] Summer Barnes: drh is going to die tomorrow [00:56:35] Summer Barnes: we can work the rest from there [00:56:38] Summer Barnes: what's clear is that jay needs to be looked at a lot [00:56:53] Summer Barnes: and if BM doesn't die soon that's a big problem [00:57:30] No name: scum are not going to kill anybody they think might get lynched [00:57:43] No name: so Bm will hang around [00:57:55] Summer Barnes: BM got checked though [00:57:59] Summer Barnes: and most everyone believes it [00:58:09] Summer Barnes: also based on what you say than \echelontee is suspicious [00:58:48] No name: he also looks bad here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13938569 [00:59:11] No name: because even though somebody could have thought that kurumi might be town [01:00:00] No name: lynching him was overwhelmingly the best option town had [01:00:13] No name: and he flipped scum which was good [01:00:21] Summer Barnes: yeah [01:00:51] No name: so having dodged my question on Jay would you care to give me your read on CURu? [01:01:05] Summer Barnes: err what question? [01:01:14] Summer Barnes: I didn't see any question, might be my internet [01:01:28] Summer Barnes: when you asked I said refer to my recent in game post [01:01:40] No name: [00:37] No name: <<< it's fine what do you make of jaybrundage? [01:01:42] No name: [00:39] No name: <<< what do you make of his case? since he has one now [01:01:47] Summer Barnes: that he seems like big jubjub but he hasn't done anything [01:02:50] No name: maybe you should respond to it in the thread? [01:02:57] No name: before the daypost [01:04:22] Summer Barnes: oh I haven't looked recently [01:04:26] No name: your internet is indeed dodgy.. [01:04:31] Summer Barnes: but still only took him a week -_- [01:04:53] No name: right i really have to go now [01:04:59] Summer Barnes: okay you do that [01:05:01] No name: i am going to try to post more [01:05:02] Summer Barnes: hopefully we will talk more [01:05:07] Summer Barnes: yes [01:05:12] No name: and if you are town then you need to do the same [01:05:21] No name: ecause with the current atmosphere [01:05:24] Summer Barnes: don't worry about me [01:05:29] No name: scum have the win [01:05:56] No name: and if you are town people need to know who you think the scum are [01:06:18] Summer Barnes: I've been clear the entire game on who I think is mafia [01:06:26] Summer Barnes: but you could stand to do that [01:06:31] Summer Barnes: so I guess we both need to work on this lol [01:07:00] No name: gnight + Show Spoiler + Original Message From Bill Murray: if someone had a guilty on echelontee, and i knew deconduo was this person's counterclaim theoretically, given the setup, deconduo would be mafia, right? | ||
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If you disagree please explain why you think Dr.H is not the best lynch and who it is that you think we should lynch instead accompanied with a full explanation. | ||
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On March 28 2012 03:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote: On March 28 2012 03:09 layabout wrote: Dr.H when you realised that we were likely at lylo what did you resolve to do to ensure town's victory? Question is meaningless. The amount of effort I put into the game based on personal factors is not indicative of anything besides how busy I am or are not. Anyway, this is why I believe JB is scum or the traitor. There is a sharp change in his behavior. He begins the game with a very soft stance on LaL. When he comes under fire for what he's talking about, he pulls back a little bit. There is also this gem which is typical of scum "We are unlikely to get a mafia day one So lynching a bad townie isn't to bad IF we choose to lynch him." TRANSLATION : When lurkers are lynched on the basis of being bad or just lurkers, it's very easy for scum to decide which lurkers are lynched. All they have to do, for example, is say "Hey, let's kill Abenson for lurking" instead of scum lurker Y and when it gets into late game they can swing each lynch where they want it. The problem with killing lurkers fast is that the best does not lead to lurker lynches, only the loudest voice does. On March 12 2012 09:01 jaybrundage wrote: Responding to Layabout There's nothing wrong with putting a vote out there just for the hell of it. I dont like Rg playstyle (lying like 6 times as town) He even expressed he lied alot as town so he could get away with lying alot as mafia. We are unlikely to get a mafia day one So lynching a bad townie isn't to bad IF we choose to lynch him. I was mostly fishing for reactions. Didn't get to many sadly I say i do agree with lynching liars and Lurkers. However i suggest we use them as guidelines. TL towns dont lynch liars often enough and pushing lurkers to talk and contribute forces mafia to contribute. And in the process mess up Sharing PMs or not Sharing PMs both have pros and cons. To act like one is simply pro mafia is dumb. I think they both are viable ways to proceed. Also I put the list of players out. To try to elicit responses from them. I dont want to lost because half our player base isn't contirbuted it doesn't matter if they town or mafia. A town that contributes is a good town. (not spam tho) I want the lurkers to come out T_T I dont know about the jackal lynch we could of found a scum. Ill have to go over him. I dont know his meta to well tbh tho. This players have not posted in the thread yet. And i suggest we lynch one of them. Katina VisceraEyes Node [Uon]Sentinel Pandain RgTheSchoworz Curu The part in bold is what worries me the most. Lynch lists are beyond useless, I remember going off on VE for pages about his in Storm which got him so upset he almost quit so I won't beat a dead horse, but I still think it's scummier than not. This post was so early in the game that calling out a lurker is worthless, not only that, he's suggesting we already lynch one of these players just for not posting early into the day. On March 12 2012 15:18 jaybrundage wrote: Doc I understand where you coming from. I am not scumhunting. I honestly don't do well day 1. And i as you dont feel confident in my reads to push anything atm. I still think the jackal lynch makes sense even if mostly based on meta. I also think that our lurkers need to speak up a bit more. Apologetic and wishy washy. This changes very fast. On March 14 2012 08:40 jaybrundage wrote: Hm if this is Town VE I don't know quite what to say I have only seen VE's scum play. XD Glad Palmar is here funny thing i only seen Palmar's town play XD (And one pro town third party) Palmar are you going to claim your DT check or not :o. Tommorow I think we should shoot into one of the scummy lurkers. Lots of posts like this. He's really just summarizing what's happening and adding useless comments. On March 15 2012 08:01 jaybrundage wrote: Hey Doc are you scum? You should PM and tell me your role Newfound confidence occurs after he goes after Kurumi. JB calling out Kurumi is what sparked his claim, this does not indicate that JB was town or anything. If this confirms JB to anyone then it must also confirm me because I pushed the case equally hard and voted for Kurumi as well. Don't have a double standard now. As a rule, I'm much less interested in who defends who than just who acts like scum. I'll second guess myself into a corner otherwise. I never tried to play this lynch for town cred or to "confirm" myself and then fish role claims out of people. Are you kidding me? JB gets away with that? On March 16 2012 13:49 jaybrundage wrote: Doc I started the Kurumi lynch are you kidding me? At this point i should be confirmed town. I was the first to try to lynch kurumi. ROfl if you think im scum im dont knwo what to say On March 16 2012 14:23 jaybrundage wrote: WAIT how is Palmar getting cred for the lynch i pushed. This doesnt make any sense. You guys are delusional. You are assuming Palmar is town based on nothing. He hasn't dont shit this game. Besides kill two townies. Saying Palmar is confirmed town is pretty retarded. He's not He needs to start pushing good lynches and start doing work as town. DocH i think your town because you were pushing the Kurumi lynch with me. But your not making sense. Cant a get a single townie that can be transparent. I want to lynch Katina next. She was trying to kill node. who was green. And then she tried to get people to look at cases and not lynch Kurumi. If people think im scum rofl moslty you DocH you think im scum for what reason. Starting a lynch on a scum? Post a case on me. This case will probably determine to me if your scum or not. So please put some work in it. Look at JB's logic here. This is the only post that makes me think "bad townie". He seems to genuinely view the game this way: Town - Only bandwagon or vote for scum. Never vote for a town aligned player. Scum - Only bandwagon or vote for town. If you vote for scum you're town, if you vote for town you're scum. Katina is scum for pushing Node when a lot of people suspected him? And me and JB are town because we got Kurumi lynched who was scum? Sorry, that's not how mafia works. On March 16 2012 16:46 jaybrundage wrote: First off I'm not begging for town cred. I'm demanding it. I did push Kurumi. But don't worry hopefully I'll get another scum tomorrow. Speaking of scum your looking pretty scummy there buddy. Want to go on the docket? Lets see didnt vote for Kurumi check. Trying to discredit a townie check. Let me ask you think ET do you think Katina is scummy and why. Im assuming your answer is going to be no because you know your her scum buddy. And um yea thats about it :D Trying to discredit a townie? Again, more making cases based on the assumption that he is confirmed. Unbelievable. JB continues down this path. I believe JB was the traitor, probably rolechecked by scum Night 1 which explains his behavior coming out on Day 2. If Kurumi wasn't a planned bus, it could be a sloppy bus. I was sloppily bussed in HP Mafia and did a sloppy bus on LSB in that game too iirc. Basically, one player says "I'm just gonna bus Kurumi" but the rest of the scum don't go along with it, maybe some do or some don't, or see a chance to make mislynch/nolynch happen near the end and fuck with the vote. It could be any number of reasons. There is no denying JB had a sharp change of attitude from wishy washy/apologetic and only commentating on nothings/policies to brash, aggressive, confident, arrogant even pushing people and trying to force everyone to think he's confirmed based on nothing more than the fact that he posted a case on someone who was scum. Something I also did. Twice. If you think JB is town and I'm not JUST because I was busy and rude for a little bit (not too strange for me, I've almost been modkilled for rudeness and flaming as town before) and the fact that I PM'd Kurumi because I THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM AND THEN PUSHED HIS LYNCH DAY 2 you are a jubjub. jay is scum because: 1 On day1 he pushed a lurker lynch but backed off when pressured 2 He posted a list of lurkers to kill all of which have flipped town so far 3 Summary posts and wishy-washy posts on day1 4 He gains confidence when going after Kurumi 5 He asks for town cred after the Kurumi lynch 6 He is trying to discredit EchelonTee the townie 7 His change of tone makes you think that he was the traitor and that he was recruited night 1 Have i missed any key points? Points 1, 2 (sortof) and 3 were all made on day1 I remember saying that we should lynch him after Caller asked me to make a case http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13886499 4 being confident when trying to push/start a lynch is not scummy in of itself 5 you say makes you think that he is a bad townie 6 Implies that you (DocH) know that EchelonTee is town, how would you know that i wonder.... If you are talking about Palmar then you should consider that Jay was correct in pointing out that it would be risky to assume that Palmar was town based upon him hammering, given that he had helped killed two townies already 7 Is the crux of your argument and i don't buy it. You are telling us to lynch Jaybrundage because you believe that he is the traitor, that scum check him night 1 and recruited him, that he then bussed Kurumi for town cred alone because scum were uncoordinated. This seems to be somewhere in between convoluted and desperate. | ||
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On March 28 2012 01:53 Katina wrote: DrH only has two votes at the moment? We need the votes on him to start coming in. DrH hasn't been defending himself. He first shrugged off my case against him then he said it was the only one with a genuine analysis. As said before he is throwing around a lot of doubt. He hasn't been contributing anything useful even in the most recent days. DrH said his life was hectic but he posted about forty posts on day one. For someone who claims to have an active life he had time to make ~40 posts day 1 and continues to be one of the most active players. His actions are inconsistent and don't add up. I don't think anybody has been contributing enough for you to call Dr.H scummy for not contributing. I get the impression that Katina has been somewhat scared to post all game and has avoided giving us her reads. | ||
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On March 27 2012 11:09 EchelonTee wrote: layabout, you realize in your pm conversation with katina, you go on at length about your reads and you reasoning (which revolve around me being scum, why aren't u pushing me then ...?), while katina just nods along and says "town needs to talk more mmhmm". where is she now? putting my case on katina tonight I felt that Dr.H should be the focus for today. After that pm talk katina being scum became a lot more plausible. If Katina is scum then I think it's highly unlikely that Dr.h is also scum, since half of Katina's week worth of (7) posts have been about Dr.H being scum and because of the timing of Katina's case on Dr.h. I asked Katina to post more today and Katina has not When Katina is posting like this + Show Spoiler + On March 28 2012 01:53 Katina wrote: DrH only has two votes at the moment? We need the votes on him to start coming in. DrH hasn't been defending himself. He first shrugged off my case against him then he said it was the only one with a genuine analysis. As said before he is throwing around a lot of doubt. He hasn't been contributing anything useful even in the most recent days. DrH said his life was hectic but he posted about forty posts on day one. For someone who claims to have an active life he had time to make ~40 posts day 1 and continues to be one of the most active players. His actions are inconsistent and don't add up. + Show Spoiler + suck it curu Good night and Good luck. | ||
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I am also really annoyed by the fact that masoning Katina the town pardoner managed to change my reads from DrH EchelonTee BillMurray to Katina Jaybrundage EchelonTee. I suppose it has at least been a great source of errors for me to learn from. Final paint doc: | ||
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I was about to say why i wanted us to lynch Dr.h and then vote for him. I was halway through and i haapened to scroll through the thread and i ended up reading this again: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=1617&topic_id=316574 I then held backspace and wrote this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14062760 its haresd tko type whewnb youy sare faceopaklming with both haands | ||
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