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I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game.
Perhaps it is enough that chocolate is discredited, and you know you don't have the numbers to mislynch him without mafia stacking on him. At this stage, there is a low chance of chocolate actually being lynched and thus, flipping green, since there are multiple cases out on alderan, gumshoe and myself. It is also a convenient way of wasting a vote and not committing to anyone else, but as you say, I will wait to see what you have to say about others when you're done with their filters. I will try my best to see what you have to say in the morning before class. This is why I am placing a preliminary vote on ghost first.
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EBWOP
I'm off for the night, apologies for the spam on this page.
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Post by k2hd
I really like the fact that in this post, you bring up the fact that Chocolate made this post, saying that lynching him would give the town info, then bringing up this post, where I say the same thing, only earlier. For some reason, it's good enough to lynch me, but not him.
I had already said after phagga's post, that you had less pressure on you than chocolate, so it was safer for you to make such a claim when the chance of you being lynched was lower.
As for this:
K2hd has still not provided anything of value, under the guise of being a "noob town". Quite frankly I'm sick of responses like this. WE'RE ALL NOOBS.... hence the title of this game. Read filters and make cases. I say from this point forward we stop accepting responses like this.
His vote is currently on Ghost_403. His reasons:
- He thinks Chocolate is town.
- Ghost voted for Chocolate.
- Ghost made a slightly suspicious post (a point that I actually brought up initially)
- Therefore Ghost is scum.
What? It doesn't work like that.
##vote K2hd
I'd rather you not devalue my post like this. I voted for ghost because of his day 1 posting, AND his recent interactions with phagga concerning ghost. You may argue that what I said about day 1 was already covered, but not day 2 posts. I have read filters, and my vote stays on ghost. I'm willing to take the chance that gumshoe flips red and I look even more suspicious than I already do, but I do not think he is scum.
Phagga
+ Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 01:44 phagga wrote:Generally: I don't care if this is anyones first game on TL Mafia. This is a newbie game, noone has a lot of experience with TL Mafia. This game is here to learn, so please stop making excuses like that. I have already skipped several paragraphs who start with that, and I will continue to skip them in the future. DoYouHas: Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 14:57 DoYouHas wrote:
Alright people, this is getting a little ridiculous. We can't let this thread stagnate midday.
Ghost and Phagga, do you agree with how I handled NightFury? No, I don't agree. You accused him of not generating content. He agrees, but then only writes an excuse, and you are already giving him a free pass. Now there is no more pressure on him to generate real content, which is what would have given us more information on him. You left him of the hook way to early. Instead, I would have liked to see you call him out on his confession of not generating content, and pressure him more at least until he starts generating content. I noticed several times that people don't want to pressure someone anymore after the target went from scummy to towny. Why not? If you already started, pressure some more. Townies don't need to be afraid to get pressured. After all, they have no reason to lie, and if they write what they think and observe, than they have nothing to fear. And it will generate more information which will enable more people to judge better if someone is town or not. But if you let Nightfury of the hook like that, and nightfury gets lynched anyway and flips red, I will immediatly get suspicious about your reluctance to pressure him after making a case on him. Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 14:57 DoYouHas wrote:
Who is your greatest suspicion right now?
- Chocolate - Gumshoe - Alderan k2hd: + Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 22:16 k2hd wrote:Show nested quote +I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game. Perhaps it is enough that chocolate is discredited, and you know you don't have the numbers to mislynch him without mafia stacking on him. At this stage, there is a low chance of chocolate actually being lynched and thus, flipping green, since there are multiple cases out on alderan, gumshoe and myself. It is also a convenient way of wasting a vote and not committing to anyone else, but as you say, I will wait to see what you have to say about others when you're done with their filters. I will try my best to see what you have to say in the morning before class. This is why I am placing a preliminary vote on ghost first. This is just not true. On the first day, my vote was on Chocolate the whole day. After this vote + Show Spoiler +On February 28 2012 07:36 NightFury wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: Chocolate there were 5 votes on Chocolate for roughly 4 hours, with 8 votes he would have gotten lynched. I wrote the following two posts during those 3 hours: + Show Spoiler +On February 28 2012 08:36 phagga wrote:
So, folks, I will be offline for the night in about 20 minutes. So far my vote stays on Chocolate. I have read a few interesting things about others (specially steveling), but so far nothing could convince me to switch my vote to another person. I still think Chocolate is our best lynch. On February 28 2012 10:00 phagga wrote:
I'm off to bed now. My vote stays on chocolate. That was 2 hours before the deadline. There was still the possibility that he would get lynched. 40 minutes before the deadline JekyllAndHyde unvoted Chocolate. Chocolate: + Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 20:58 phagga wrote:To k2hd: + Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote:I believe that chocolate is town. He's had a LOT of pressure put on him due to his sub-par posting on day 1, and had to defend himself left, right and centre for the rest of day 1. He's spent most of his time on defensive posts, and perhaps hasn't been able to focus on gathering much of his own evidence on other players. He is very aggressive in trying to force lurkers to post more by voting, but as was mentioned by DYH, this could just have been a poorly thought out way of fostering discussion. I understand that it may have been an easy way to avoid generating original content/cases of his own, but again, this is probably just the play style of a townie who is unsure of what to do, or who would rather not stick his head out too much. I did not check up on everyone's previous games, but from what I gather from what others have said, chocolate was mafia in his last game, had to tone down his posting because it was too aggressive, and hasn't played town before (unless he's had another game that I don't know about). There is also this post by chocolate: Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:26 Chocolate wrote:
You do realize that is basically a vote swing, which you state is bad? Stand by your words. If I get lynched we will get good info on alderan, gum, dyh, sloosh, Phagga, and night. Why would he argue so confidently against a vote swing AWAY from him? 1Chocolate is also one of the first to start getting suspicious of alderan. After day 1, some of the heat was finally lifted off of him and focused on alderan by others. Following this, we have sloosh post a large case against alderan, followed by JekylAndHyde's case, and alderan is under more and more pressure. Instead of continuing his case against alderan, chocolate decides to launch a case against night fury of all people, who no one had posted any suspicions against yet. If he were mafia, why would he not join others in pressuring alderan (or the case that is piling up against gumshoe), and go for a target who would be harder to mislynch? I sincerely believe chocolate is town, and that some of those pressuring him hard are looking scummy to me. Those who voted chocolate on day 1: phagga, sloosh, NightFury, ghostI currently do not have as much info as I'd like on NightFury to say much about him. Sloosh's actions seem pro-town to me so far, and though he has not posted as much as others, his posts have generally been full of content. Now for the remaining two: Phagga has been trying very hard for a chocolate lynch the whole game. 2 He takes a moment to call gumshoe out on why he didn't change his vote from ghost, and why he felt the need to "take responsibility" for voting chocolate if he flipped green, and then goes straight back to attacking chocolate. He is either getting tunnel vision with chocolate 3, or trying to get the mislynch on him. Have a look at this post. He accuses chocolate of relying on the arguments of others, and voting lurkers (a policy which he did state at the start), but ignores the fact that it is chocolate who first brought up a case against alderan (albeit a rather lackluster one) and states emphatically that he will vote chocolate again on day 2, presumably for not coming up with original cases/evidence, when there was still 48 irl hours for chocolate to contribute on day 2 (day 1 had not even ended yet). This early vote behaviour was the same thing we called nttea out for when he wanted a default alderan lynch. Then we have ghost. His last few posts have all been aimed at chocolate. here they areGhost and phagga engage in banter that seems like bullying chocolate to me in the first post, and the second post is unnecessary, because although chocolate did not do anything like make a new case, it was still a valid point. Nttea should not be posting like that, and if he is as clueless as he says he is, chocolate was only helping him. The way he analyses the chocolate quotes in the third post is very condescending in tone. He could have done so without putting chocolate down, as others in the thread have done. 1bI also do not trust this post made by ghost: Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:03 ghost_403 wrote:
You see, this is how I see it.
We could vote to lynch Igabod. That's not even really a bad idea. He's been lurking hardcore. Kinda scummy if you ask me. And I don't like scummy. However, his flip doesn't tell us anything. Maybe, we'll get lucky and lynch a scum. Odds are about, what, 28%? You can do worse than that.
Other option: You lynch either me or chocolate. I think it's pretty well established, one of the two of us is scum. If whoever gets lynched flips red, awesome! Lynched a scum! If not, guess who the first person on the chopping block is tomorrow. The guy who wasn't lynched. Either way, going into day 3, the town is down one scum. Trying to gain the trust of the town by encouraging a chocolate or ghost lynch on day 1. If chocolate flipped green, suspicion may still have fallen off of ghost because mafia would presumably not make a post like this. I realise that this point is a bit WIFOM (I think I'm using the term correctly?). Basically, it seems to me that phagga and ghost are actively trying to discredit chocolate after his already shaky start, and possibly also get the mislynch on him. You are aware that later in your post at 1b you quote ghost_403 who wrote against a vote switch away from him and chocolate, and say that that post is a reason you don't trust ghost_403? This is contradictory. 2 The question you should ask yourself here is: Is this something a townie would do? And if so, is it also something scum would do? I doubt scum would want to stay in the spotlight like that.
Also, If you are town, and you feel strongly about someone being scum, what are you gonna do?
- Try to push a lynch on that person even if people will not listen to you
- let the person of the hook because noone listens to you, and pick another target
I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game.
Nothing Chocolate said so far convinced me that he is not scum. That's why I still want him lynched.3 I am aware that I am prone to tunneling Chocolate, and I am currently reading through several filters (again) to give an update on who else I think is fishy. Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 21:50 Chocolate wrote:
Don't have much time to post but my style last game was very passive and lurky, k2hd. Phagga 1b is a good point, 2 is looking pretty wifom, and I'm glad to hear about 3.
K2 I'm really glad to see you posting. Keep it up I disagree. Scum does not want to be in the spotlight. People in the spotlight get analyzed more, and scum has to play a role / lie to look townie, so the chance that people will reveal their true role is higher. You will not often find scum that is going to play aggresively, and most of the time they won't get far with it because they have to hide too much.
I think there's some confusion here, I'm talking about the vote count and low chance of mislynching chocolate on day 2, and how hard you were STILL pushing chocolate up until now, with the change to gumshoe. Notice I typed in the present tense in that post.
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Catching up on the thread now.
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First, I fully agree with lynching nttea next. He did not explain the ninja vote then, and has still not done so now. Note that the first few posts he made were around this time of day/night.
Now for your questions Sloosh. I am still suspicious of alderan, but am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his most recent spate of inactivity (he says has a party). I also have some questions for him regarding why he was pushing my lynch so much harder than gumshoe's.
Alderan, after gumshoe's lynch, you made these 2 posts:
post 1
post 2
If gumshoe appeared SO scummy to you, why did you let your vote stay on me? I think we are all in agreement that a no lynch at this stage of the game is bad, and leaving your vote on me risked exactly that. I know you suspect me, but the 2 linked posts show that you supposedly felt that gumshoe was "so scummy". That, combined with the fact that the majority of the players were convinced he was scum would make gumshoe the better option to place your own vote on.
Speaking of DoYouHas, I had him pegged as town earlier, and still do. He makes constructive posts to foster discussion among town, and when he pushes somebody, he has plenty of reasoning to back it up. He believes that chocolate is town, as I do, and was against a gumshoe lynch. It's also difficult to really link him in with any potential mafia buddies. What I mean by this is that he has closely scrutinised posts by multiple players, and does not seem to be more or less friendly to any player in the game/agreeing with anyone prematurely.
Phagga I'm now not as sure about as before. I gave him time to address my claims, and he did so rather well, throwing doubt onto my case. I am willing to let it go for now, but will be keeping an eye out for any other phagga activity that sticks out to me.
Ghost is still on my radar, however. He still has not really addressed my original case against him, aside from this post:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 07:35 ghost_403 wrote:Two posts that I want to quickly address before I go any further: Post by DoYouHasYou were wondering what I thought of your case? Meh. Your argument that he's busy is pretty week. Point 2 is meta. Point 3 is something that I argued for in Day 1. Nailed point 4. Point 5 is point 1 again. It's a weak case, but I like content. Post by k2hdI really like the fact that in this post, you bring up the fact that Chocolate made this post, saying that lynching him would give the town info, then bringing up this post, where I say the same thing, only earlier. For some reason, it's good enough to lynch me, but not him. Now onto reading some filters! Whoo!
I had actually addressed that point (which phagga made originally) with this point
+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 21:50 k2hd wrote:
I did actually think about that after making my post phagga, but decided to wait for someone to point it out so as not to spam. I would argue that it was safer for ghost to make a post like that because there was more pressure on chocolate, than on him, so there was a lower chance of people calling ghost's bluff. I will be confirming my vote roughly 10-12 hours from now. I would like to read what others think when they wake up, but currently I am more inclined to vote for ghost than for you. And so, tentatively:
##Vote: ghost_403
Which ghost either ignored or didn't see, and I made the same point again here:
+ Show Spoiler +Post by k2hd
I really like the fact that in this post, you bring up the fact that Chocolate made this post, saying that lynching him would give the town info, then bringing up this post, where I say the same thing, only earlier. For some reason, it's good enough to lynch me, but not him.
I had already said after phagga's post, that you had less pressure on you than chocolate, so it was safer for you to make such a claim when the chance of you being lynched was lower.
He has since made several posts since then, and has not addressed these concerns of mine.
Now for my thoughts on gumshoe's lynch. The original reason I didn't want him lynched was because the reason he wanted to leave was boredom. This seemed to clinch his lynch in many people's eyes. If he was mafia though, why would he say this? Mafia have been doing well in this game, creating an uncertain town atmosphere with cases flying everywhere. If he was mafia, he would have been winning, and town are playing into their hands (hopefully we can change this from now on obviously). Why would he ever say that he was bored if he was mafia, and want to leave, unless he was a legitimately bored townie? This is all just speculative of course, but I suppose it was just a feeling.
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EBWOP
I see that you have now posted nttea. Everyone's going to want to know what you have to say, and what your reads are on day 3. I'm still favouring a lynch on you right now.
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I am off to sleep now, hopefully will be able to come on before night 2 ends.
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I have just skimmed through everything and will go back for a more detailed look, but I'd just like to ask everyone in general how DoYouHas is going to be handled. It seems cases on him are springing up, but how are these cases going to be debated and addressed if he's not even going to be here to defend himself?
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Hmmm, this is interesting... Hope you at least have fun observing nttea! Back to thinking now.
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Will be posting thoughts in a few hours, going to be occupied.
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I know you weren't addressing me zelblade, but I totally forgot about testsubject. I just went through everyone's filters, and found myself repeatedly drawn towards testsubject's filter. Test, you've been in the game long enough to contribute more than you have up until now. While you were right when you rebutted gumshoe's point that you were trying to pass off other people's reasoning as your own, his main point still stands: you have not proposed any original cases or points yet, nor have you defended anybody you think is town (aside from stating you have a null/weak read on somebody which, of course, doesn't count). Your only original point so far is this post:
On March 01 2012 05:49 TestSubject893 wrote:
I'm back from class, but I've got a lot of work to get done tonight, so I don't know how active I'll be able to be. Hopefully this shouldn't matter as we have the entirety of the day tomorrow to decide who to lynch.
With that said, after having the day to think, I've concluded gumshoe's badgering of zelblade was terribly suspicious and until I'm convinced that someone else is scummier than that, you can pencil me in as voting for a gumshoe lynch.
Oh, and I should mention that I think his whole "I'm bored" thing is not really worth worrying about. It could be that he's a mafia who realizes he's dug himself in a hole and doesn't want to play it out, or that he's just a townie who is legitimately bored. We have no way of knowing, so it does not effect my opinion of his alignment.
A number other first time players in this game (including myself) have already been called out for playing like this earlier, and have attempted to contribute more. I think it is your turn to do so now.
Ghost, I have another question for you. You claim in this post here:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 07:44 ghost_403 wrote:Let's take but a moment to examine our dear friend Chocolate. My problem with him, in addition to the things that I brought up on Day 1, is that he brings nothing new to the game. He is the perfect example of a scummy lurker. His goal is to post enough in the thread to make himself look townie while providing nothing of value. Let's take a look at a couple of the posts that he's made. (Fun fact: these are in fact ALL of his posts since Night 1.) Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:42 Chocolate wrote:
Didnt like night because he was ambivalent until I told him I wanted people to panic a little.
Phagga because he voted me because I was voting around w/o intentions of lynching. Can't figure out who he's talking to in this post. He basically says here that he doesn't like the people that voted to lynch him. Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:54 Chocolate wrote:On February 28 2012 11:52 ghost_403 wrote:
@sloosh Here's what you missed. All (almost all) the people voting against Chocolate have held their ground, all the other people have hopped, skipped, and leaped all over the place, finally deciding on trying to lynch the guys who's going to get modkilled for not voting in order to force a no-lynch. I bet the other 2 will get replaced too Responds to me with a contentless post. Useless. Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 07:53 Chocolate wrote:On February 29 2012 06:58 Alderan wrote:
Jekyll, what do you think about the current cases at hand, namely the ones against Chocolate, myslef, and k2hd. I'm still a case -.- Just read the thread, I think the cases of alderan and k2hd are pretty good. On February 29 2012 03:54 Alderan wrote:
The K2hd Case
Why I found you suspicious the originally:
- You had, prior to the very end of the day yesterday, exactly 1 productive post.
- Your first point in said post was to say you didn't find FF very scummy.
- Your second point was to find Ghost suspicious for the same thing that seemed to clear him for everyone else.
- You soft agree with me about Chocolate.
- You vote for a no lynch.
You had no strong convictions, made no original cases, you simply agreed with other people sentiments, and then chose to vote for a no-lynch, the ultimate middle of the road move.
Important note: Notice the fact that you voted for igadob is no where to be found in this reasoning. It's because that move is not inherently scummy, I found you and 3 others that were voting for igadob suspicious, which in turn lead me to believe that Chocolate could be scum. I had enough doubt however to choose to vote for either lynching the scummiest lurker in my mind, or no lynching.
Why I find you more suspicious:
- Opening sentence of your second meaningful post is "Now for those who are starting to suspect me." What a bizzarre way to start a post, I've never heard a towny be worried about being "suspected"
- The rest of his post has absolutely no substance.
- Spends 3 paragraphs saying he's going to be inactive a lot.
- Says he couldn't make an informed enough decision to switch votes to get a lynch because of his inactivity.
- Touts being the first to "bring igadob up. He was a lurker, you didn't do anything special, you just voted for a lurker. Who tries to make their actions look more meaningful than they are? Scum.
- Agrees with Sloosh and Zelblade that I look suspicious. Makes 1 extra point about the case that was inherently flawed. You state that I was giving Janaan a pass. I wasn't. In case you did not notice all of those people were lurking really hard, except for Janaan, who was posting enough, just not making a stand on anyone, and that's what I was asking him to do.
See what you guys think.
The first part is a good find, he does seem to be contributing the bare minimum, not really doing anything productive but providing "safe" views. Agree with the bringing igabod up part. Agree with the fluff part. Now this is seperate but alderan brings up another good point Janaan, who was posting enough, just not making a stand on anyone this wishy washy stance is not beneficial for anyone but mafia. As for the alderan case, he does seem to be moving around a lot too, but at least he is driving discussion. Voting for steveling over igabod makes sense with his explanation. Basically those two points are the whole case? With those alone I'm not bought. TL;DR - I agree with Alderan, begin wishy-washy is bad, Steveling was a better lynch than Igabod (which Alderan already stated here). Next post, he defends himself from Phagga. Posts some thoughts, nothing profound. We have to note here that the only reason he did this was that he was provoked. Next three posts say nothing. Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 11:03 Chocolate wrote:On February 29 2012 09:07 NightFury wrote:
Okay. Caught up with the thread.
As for the no lynch - Can't say I'm 100% pleased with the decision. But I suppose people do have different priorities. All I know is that we have one extra day/night cycle. And since it has already come to pass, I see no reason to dwell on it.
Really happy we have substitutions for the two inactives and one with questionable sanity. Hope this leads to productive discussions.
As for the new cases proposed - I'm still trying to digest information on them. I don't have anything new or constructive to add at this moment in time.
I do have one question for Chocolate. This is mostly for my understanding than anything else. I do understand your strategy on day 1 was to get people talking and I definitely see the merit in that. So I won't be beating that dead horse anymore.
Why would you choose a dishonest strategy that basically involves empty threats to produce conversation over others (i.e. case building)?
I cannot wrap my head around why you opted to do this. I did state previously that it could have just been reckless play and that could still be a possibility - but I need to know more information before I can return to that stance. Just for clarity - I remain in the opinion that your play has been scummy and that you are still a valid lynch candidate.
I am heading out for dinner now. Will be back in a little while! I think the answers produced while under pressure would just be better, and people might actually feel the need to respond more. Responds to pressure, nothing new. Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 21:36 Chocolate wrote:
Then we should play out the day and see what presents itself -.- Also don't contribute just for the sake of contributing, contribute to try to find scum. I'm already getting bad vibes from you, nttea My favorite post. Yells at nttea for posting without saying anything. LOL. Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 06:47 Chocolate wrote:I just got home . Not many people were on yesterday for me to talk to. Also zell blade I would rather you never have stated that information at all, nothing good can ever come from discussing non hit night actions Ok first I'm going to be a hypocrite and tell you to stop talking about this, by talking about it  Same goes for analyzing night actions, they are exercises in WIFOM and attempting to draw conclusions from them is stupid and scummy. Definitely agreeing with phagga here. In fact this is making me very suspicious of gumshoe. I wouldn't expect someone like him to try to do that at all, and the blue discussion with zell can't help town one bit. In addition, why wouldn't he claim RB? The only thing I can think of is if zell is mafia and is trying to make it seem like there is an rb, but I'd get suspicious if he kept claiming rb every day. In addition, if he gets lynched and flips red, any other players who have claimed RB would probably get lynched quickly. Zellblade's point on gum's posting habits is good. I dislike gum's choice to curb his posting, imo it seems to be an excuse to post less (think the amount I posted in II ) while still seeming town, because he has an excuse. I hope to see substantial posts from gum, and answering questions when needed. If he goes lurker mode I won't hesitate to lynch him. Tells us that the guy who thought about getting modkilled is kinda fishy. Profound thought here. Take a minute to go back and read through his filter. All of his posts thus far have been either, A) agreeing with other players, B) finding lurkers scummy, or C) defending himself. Chocolate has not brought anything new to this thread, and is therefore, a scummy lurker.
That chocolate's posts consist of unoriginal content (he has since posted some original content), agreeing with others and defending himself. You take the time to make that large post, but don't bother taking the time to post even 1 or 2 points about testsubject, who has skated by (even after taking into account his shorter time here) even more than chocolate?
Your only post addressing testsubject is this one:
On March 02 2012 08:10 ghost_403 wrote:
To clarify, nttea hasn't posted anything in two days. test has posted some. I don't think he's lurking, but I haven't looked too hard at him (yet).
Is it going to end up something like this instead?
On March 01 2012 07:44 ghost_403 wrote:
Lest I be accused of tunneling, next one's for Alderan.
On March 01 2012 08:25 ghost_403 wrote:Nevermind, I don't have enough to post on Alderan at the moment. My bad! After my fourth reading, it seems that you are most consistent than I previously believed.
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And though I'm focusing on testsubject and ghost right now, I am ready to re-evaluate my stance on DoYouHas after the recent posts.
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In response to zelblade:
Despite the pressure on him, I am still not totally convinced that alderan is mafia. He stuck his neck out on day 1 with his case against chocolate (this is I believe the first case made in the whole game), and I don't see why mafia would do this. He drove a lot of discussion on day 1, and I don't see why mafia would want to do this, rather than letting discussion stagnate or focus on the wrong things (we spent a LOT of time debating the merits of a soft deadline). He was bringing the spotlight onto himself, increasing the chance that his posting would be scrutinised more closely (which happened).
The above paragraph alone isn't enough, but his voting pattern also suggests town to me. He voted steve day 1 and me for day 2. He did not want a chocolate lynch (who I still believe is town from my previous post), or an igabod/nttea lynch, who has since flipped blue. I obviously know I am town (still unsure about testsubject), but alderan does not. He could've helped in getting a lynch on an easy target in igabod/nttea (at the time there was a real chance of igabod being lynched), but chose steve instead. On day 2 he votes for me and keeps his vote on me when there was still the danger of a no lynch. I hope he can explain his absence when he gets back.
As for DoYouHas, I now find it VERY suspicious that after making these 2 posts (also used in sloosh's case):
post 1
post 2
He still has not responded to this post (in regards to the nightfury issue):
phagga's post
The only post he makes addressing phagga's post is this one:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 02:45 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2012 20:58 phagga wrote:
2 The question you should ask yourself here is: Is this something a townie would do? And if so, is it also something scum would do? I doubt scum would want to stay in the spotlight like that.
Also, If you are town, and you feel strongly about someone being scum, what are you gonna do?
- Try to push a lynch on that person even if people will not listen to you
- let the person of the hook because noone listens to you, and pick another target
I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game.
This is wrong. It is equally as possible that mafia would tunnel someone that hard. Tunneling someone into a lynch, on a green flip, makes it very hard for the town to determine whether it was just bad town play or scummy play. It is an easy way for a scum to get into and out of the spotlight without offering anything more than a null read on them. It also lowers the town's expectations for them for the rest of the game. Similarly, being willing to back off a case is just as often a trait of a townie who has changed their mind as it is a scum who wants a bandwagon. WIFOM my friend, WIFOM. I also find myself oddly comfortable with either a k2hd, gumshoe, or Alderan lynch. I think they all have good reasons to be lynched, but I will wait a little longer to see what people think before I make my preference clear.
No mention of why he let nightfury off so easily.
+ Show Spoiler +On March 03 2012 04:10 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:25 slOosh wrote:DYH:Before D2 I've been on the fence with DYH as on one side it does look like he is trying to contribute and drive discussion, but on the other he is flip flopping a lot and seems really unsure of his reads. I understand your desire to lynch the hard lurker - but I really don't want N2 and D3 to be dominated by discussion of the validity of policy lynches. My questions for you still remain:
Did you think that k2hd was a better choice solely based on comparison to gumshoe?
Do you still think that he is a good lynch suspect for tomorrow?
We need as much info as we can get and we can pick up discussion on nttea lynch if you still feel inclined to do during D3, but it doesn't make sense to do it now at night since you could die and mafia might WIFOM stuff up if your reads and stances aren't clear. No I didn't think k2hd was a better choice solely based on comparison to gumshoe. He was someone that I found suspicious when I was making my case against NightFury because he met many of the scum standards I was using to accuse NightFury. I do think he is a good suspect for tomorrow.
Or why I do not get the same treatment as nightfury. He left for his trip AFTER phagga made his post, and has ignored the nightfury issue.
As for sloosh, I am on the fence, but leaning town. I am ready to re-evaluate after today's lynch, if alderan or DoYouHas are lynched and flip green.
Btw, chocolate, can you not post like that (your phagga case). It was extremely hard to read. Still believe chocolate is town because I doubt mafia team would let him make cases like that...
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That is what I intend to do zelblade, even if he's not around, because I feel he is our best case now. Ghost has a point about trying to hunt the other 3 mafia first, but I think we REALLY need a correct lynch today. If you have more questions, I'll answer them a few hours later because I'm going to be occupied for awhile again. I will post my actual vote before going to bed.
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EBWOP
Just so you all know, I'm delaying my vote on DoYouHas to before I go to bed at the latest because I will most probably be unable to change my vote before the deadline due to being out all day tomorrow (class and meeting recruiters, oh boy).
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Sloosh, I understand the points you're making, and do accept that they apply to the second paragraph of my post that you quoted. However, I still believe the first paragraph stands, and am still leaning towards DoYouHas. I suppose I might as well cast my vote now then. If I am able to find some time to check up on this thread in the morning, I may consider changing the vote if a better target comes up or there is a high chance of a no lynch, but for now...
##Vote: DoYouHas
I will still be around for a few more hours though.
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This will be a quick post until I can read through the thread more thoroughly tomorrow, so sorry if I make mistakes/miss things. I was talking to recruiters all day and am now catching up on uni work, my apologies.
Alderan did not end up posting why he thinks sloosh is godfather, so I hope nobody jumps to that conclusion just because he flipped green.
It is alarming that people are willing to go after sloosh so quickly just for leading the mislynch. I am now more inclined to have a closer look at those who sheeped on to the alderan lynch (not including DoYouHas who had to save himself), and are now turning around and voting/accusing sloosh of being mafia.
Note, of course, that I am now willing to take another look at sloosh, as I said in my previous post if there was a mislynch, but people need to be wary of the above points before they go in guns blazing at sloosh.
JekyllAndHyde, I see you posted a case against me (haven't had time to go through it), but are you still happy to go ahead and get my response after the result of the lynch? Or do you want to rethink things. I would still be happy to respond to it tomorrow when I have time.
Chocolate, if you believe mafia are controlling town, you should post more to wrest control AWAY from them.
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EBWOP
Chocolate, if you believe mafia are controlling town, you should post more to wrest control AWAY from them, not making an active decision to post less.
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First, alderan's post regarding DoYouHas's alignment seems sound:
When I flip town you can almost assuredly say that DYH is town. There are a couple reasons, but the biggest one is that on N1 DYH basically berated me for buddying up to him. This is not something that scum does, they want the town to befriend them, so they can carry votes and look less suspicious. DYH calling me out on buddying him that early in the game would have been a terrible move as scum, and DYH is better than that.
I do also believe that sloosh has been actively trying to discredit DoYouHas ever since he came back. When alderan went MIA due to his RL issues and DoYouHas left on his trip, sloosh's posting became more active. He was effectively able to take over town discussion, and now that DoYouHas is back, sloosh aims to discredit him so that mafia have complete control over town. The authoritative and generally stronger posters in alderan and zelblade are now gone, leaving DoYouHas. Sloosh is trying to get the rest of the town players to stop listening to him, leaving him unopposed. For those who sheeped alderan, I really hope you don't take sloosh's posting as fact.
I would also like to bring attention to this post by sloosh:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 02 2012 03:03 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 02:50 Alderan wrote:Ok guys, sorry about the absence, was going to take the afternoon off after my last post but then I got caught up with some GF shit all night last night. Let's see what we got here: I think I can address all of Sloosh and Jekyll's worries about me in one sentence: A person can have more than one case active at a time, especially when the town is as inactive as this one.Look, I posted a couple cases of people I find scummy at the end of the night/beginning of the day period to see what everyone thinks about the cases. Sloosh I used to think you were just playing poorly (while ridiculing my play nonetheless) but now I realize you are just misleading the town to cast suspicion on me. Alderan puts up a case against k2hd, but as Hyde points out he drops case and suspects Janaan. I did not drop anything, I'm suspicious of multiple people, ya know, because there are more than one scum. Then you had this post: On March 01 2012 15:52 slOosh wrote:
Alright, gotta sleep now. DYH I don't think right now holding off too much on your case is the best choice.
Right now our votes are spread between 4 suspects, and it is critical that we rally and focus on the best possible choice. It could be the case that more than 1 of them are mafia, but even then we should be unified in which one to lynch.
Thinking about our friends in alternate timezones, they may not be able to read your case and we can't really bank on Alderan and k2hd posting satisfactorily and I think in this situation a soft deadline would also be helpful.
But I trust your judgement - we need content from everyone and not just a few of us.
I just want us to be mindful of the situation that we are in. What in the hell does that even mean? Again you continue to try to discredit my name, my cases, and my contributions for seemingly no reason. You already admit that you don't find me as suspicious as you originally did with your first case, so why the blatant cut down. Its a really big jump to say that my general agreement of Hyde's case on you is intentionally misleading the town to cast suspicion on you. I agree with the points and lean mafia on you - how is openly expressing my stance misleading? And no I'm not discrediting your name in the second quote. Read the whole post in context. We are dangerously close to the lynch deadline with votes spread among multiple people, and I'm emphasizing the need to rally and make a decision. The bolded part is because I think some people (especially the newer ones) are timid and want to hear all the voices and cases out in the open and discussed, but I'm being realistic and pointing out that time is not a luxury. It's not a blatant cut down and I think you are starting to take everything I say about you personally. Please look objectively.
Please read that second paragraph everyone. We need consensus or we will be driven to no lynch again. This cannot be.
He had an issue with alderan having more than one case up at a time (and clearly does not want a no lynch either) , because "we need consensus or we will be driven to no lynch again". But what did he just do on day 3? Bring up 2 extensive cases against DoYouHas and alderan at the same time. He then berates nightfury, chocolate, testsubject and DoYouHas for voting the way they did to avoid a no lynch. Sloosh could very well have avoided this situation if he'd just posted the case against his strongest scum read first (DoYouHas), and left alderan's case for later. Note that both cases are brought up when both players are conveniently unable to defend themselves until very close to the deadline.
Also, the only other player who is attacked by sloosh is chocolate. Note that both phagga and ghost are back on chocolate's case as well. This is not the first time all 3 of them have attacked chocolate at around the same time. I do think there is something in this post of chocolate's:
On March 06 2012 08:27 Chocolate wrote:
Also guys, don't think me still existing is a coincidence. Now that we are so close to getting the mafia they are reverting to someone they had a strong case against earlier, but couldn't quite get the job done, to distract you all.
Sloosh which 4 people do you most think are scum? I presume DYH and I top the list.
To phagga and ghost: It's been twice now that you've chosen a townie lynch over a chocolate lynch, who you have both been critical of all game. You both seemed to let go of your chocolate case and jump on gumshoe and alderan a little too easily. Again, I am against a chocolate lynch. I have said why more than once already. You were also the first 2 (aside from sloosh himself) to place your votes on alderan for day 3 lynch. This put the remaining players who had not cast a vote in a difficult position. There was already a lot of suspicion cast on alderan by the mafia team prior to this. Had they still voted for someone else and brought the possibility of a no lynch into reality, I suspect they would have been berated ANYWAY for flip flopping (all 4 of those players had been suspicious of alderan at some stage in the game). Either way, sloosh comes out looking pro town.
JekylAndHyde, I await your decision on your case regarding me, if you still want to go ahead with it. My mafia list for now:
Sloosh
ghost
phagga
I want a sloosh lynch.
##Vote: sl0osh
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Phagga
I do not like that post at all. First, JekylAndHyde posted a case against me within your 26 hour timeline here:
post 1
He is not one of those who blindly bandwagoned against alderan, he had posted against him here:
post 2
and here:
post 3
So don't say that JeklyAndHyde conveniently disappeared only to appear to sheep alderan.
Now for this part of your post:
+ Show Spoiler +Also note that none of these persons had posted any info after the start of D3 on who they were going to vote for before they disappeared. So these three and Nightfury actually managed to miss the whole day's discussion about the vote and come in less than 3 hours before the deadline. Nightfury, Testsubject, DYH and Chocolate then vote for Alderan (although Choc and DYH think he's town and NF only seems to vote to prevent a nolynch) and THEN accuse everybody who voted for Alderan early to be scum.
I have already talked about JeklyAndHyde. When did nightfury and testsubject accuse anyone who voted for alderan early? Testsubject has not even posted since alderan's lynch. The same goes for nightfury. This leaves chocolate, who you have had a bias against for the longest time now.
Your post is a desperate attempt to push attention onto inactive posters and away from you, sloosh and ghost.
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EPT
