EPTStorm Mafia
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 21 2012 10:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Ho boy, this is good play here. GOOD play. Let me count the ways. 1) Throwing out random insults. While I can appreciate the occasional well-deserved jibe, just saying someone "sucks" is...not productive. 2) Buddying up to chaoser. Apparently I suck - but I don't know why and Bugs' post does nothing to explain it. But chaoser is the only one NOT sucking - let's explore that. chaoser was the first one to jump on-board redFF's PL of Tyrran, and besides red himself has been the first one to jump off it as well. Furthermore, chaoser has spent a fair amount of time defending redFF against my accusations by agreeing with him that I am being 'hypocritical'....except, as it turns out this was based on faulty information that stems from APPARENTLY misreading the thread (thinking I said something DocH actually said). So as it turns out, chaoser is doing MORE sucking than several others in-thread already. 3) "I have to program for a few hours so I'll bbl." - WBG I guess this means he wasn't programming before, but is now? So where has he been during all this time? Why not stop by and tell me what a dick I am BEFORE I called him out for not being in-thread yet? Why not come in and defend redFF if my case was so bad last page? Your guess is obviously as good as mine, but I suspect his has something to do with sharing an alignment with a certain someone the last page has been discussing. 4) "...since the last page has made my eyes bleed." - WBG So....I guess he thinks redFF is town or something? Or he just thinks my argument is shit? Or he thinks the last page is some kind of stigmata? I have no idea. He's just tossing doubt around as if he's some kind of authority. Guess what guys - THIS IS HIS FIRST POST. HE HASN'T EARNED THE RIGHT TO CALL ANYONE BAD YET IN THIS GAME BECAUSE HE HASN'T DONE SHIT HIMSELF. 5) (and most importantly) ......NO U 101 ways to miss the point by VisceraEyes. On February 21 2012 09:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Ho boy, the thread died fast. That worries me a little, but that could just be paranoia. chaoser - so by your correction and apology, should I assume that you're no longer agreeing with red's assessment that I'm being a hypocrite? kitaman27 - what are your thoughts on chaoser? Jackal, BC, syllo, WBG, you guys care to weigh in on this? I mean, it's early but I'd have expected to hear what an idiot I am at least twice between those 4 players. Remember this post? He was jesting at what you said lol about him making fun of you. Way to get pious over something you caused. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 22 2012 06:18 Dirkzor wrote: RoL seems fine to lynch but a bit to easy. He was AFK a lot in Purgatory aswell where he was Mafia but he did say post game that it was legitimatly busy with whatever. The game isn't even 20 hours in yet. I was busy last night. I should be able to put on a better show this game though. I'm catching up a bit, reading on page 13 right now. I dunno what the consensus is but from what I read so far RedFF seemed to be looking for an easy way to force a bad lynch and was generally acting scummy. After I catch up I will reread filters though. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 22 2012 06:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh RoL. Thanks bro. Was that the most important thing you've found in the thread? Me bantering with WBG? Just making an observation d00d, I found it noteworthy. Plus when I was reading it said we were only on page 15, when I posted that it was 19. I thought I had f5ed recently. But hey, care to explain why you created a situation to get indignant in? | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 22 2012 06:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Most of that post was about his buddying of chaoser if you'll read it carefully. And I didn't really get indignant, I only pointed out that while WBG was saying I was bad, someone he said was NOT being bad was in reality being worse. Care to explain what's noteworthy about the exchange? Do you imagine that I was trying to invent a reason to attack WBG without him so much as posting in the thread yet or something? Yes actually, that's what I was thinking. But I should probably just assume you didn't realize he was referencing a joke. I think inventing reasons to attack someone is a bit out of your skill range. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
JUST SAYING BRO, YOU SACRIFICED YOURSELF IN HAMMER WITHOUT USING YOUR POWER. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:14 redFF wrote: inb4 lying about claim, doesn't matter, its fairly easy to confirm a tracker, and you don't lynch a claimed blue day 1, especially a strong one like tracker. Cool cool. So how do you propose this works where you claim tracker and can confirm it? You claim your tracks every night? I can't wait for the "I was roleblocked" to come out D2 like it almost certainly will, and you could also claim that you saw nothing while tracking someone which is null unless they counterclaim that they had an action, at which point you out a blue. But lets look at it from the if-you-are-a-townie perspective. Now you need to claim your targets everyday and what you saw which will out blues and if you don't claim it we can't believe you. If you claim roleblock we can't know if you are telling the truth. So congrats, your "easy to confirm" role screws us more than helps us. Now you put us in a kill you to keep the game straightforward scenario since we can't discern your real alignment. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 22 2012 07:25 redFF wrote: heh, if i claimed roleblocked erryday then feel free to lynch me. I don't know what else you would want me to do? Not claim and let town lynch a powerful blue role day 1? If you are town it shouldn't be hard to show that and get us to back off on the right track. Claiming just adds confusion and expectations suck. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 22 2012 08:23 Blazinghand wrote: Wait so if you claim RB D2 we should lynch you? Wouldn't mafia just RB you for a night and get a free kill? That was basically my point. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 22 2012 11:12 Blazinghand wrote: Sup RoL I see you voted I see that you see I voted. On a related note, I read BC's filter and I always have a hard time deciphering him, but I would be fine killing him too since I do see what syllogism was saying, plus I'd rather get him out of my head. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 22 2012 16:33 syllogism wrote: It's not without a question; I've a quite a few town reads and out of the remaining people BC has looked worst, but despite him personally likely not being around to convince me, I will look into others today. Also, I think that if there is a scum tracker, there is likely a town tracker as well and thus if there is another tracker out there, it might be worthwhile to counter claim redff at some point today. Tracker is a useful role, but not essential and certainly worth outing if it almost guarantees a scum lynch on day 1. Since I believe redff really is a tracker rather than just scum fake claiming, no counter claim would be relatively strong evidence of him being a town aligned tracker. Tracker is also a role that isn't easy to use, so it makes sense to be present in this setup, considering that this is supposedly a challenging one. Redff while your outburst feels genuine, you should keep posting today. My issue is you never tackled the complexity that the claim itself brings into the game. He is just going to sit there and be confusing. He hasn't really done anything productive and has in fact looked scummy which multiple people have seen. I explained it a bit in an earlier post, this helps scum unilaterally if RedFF continues to live and dismissing him as being unlikely to do the claim himself ignores the fact that players can learn and that he also has 3 other team mates. Either A. RedFF is a tracker. Scum RB's him, we can never prove his alignment or that a RB actually exists (Even if most set ups do have RBers.) B. RedFF is scum and faked tracker. RedFF can claim RB while the mafia either does not have a RB, or does a RB + hit strategy to hide that RedFF is lying while still strategically using a roleblock. Me and GM employed this strategy in closed casket but for a different purpose, its fairly common. RedFF can claim to watch someone and see them do nothing, the only way to prove him lying is to have that player counterclaim that they indeed performed an action, thus outing a blue. Either way we have no way to prove RedFF's claim and he won't die until WE kill him because scum isn't going to do it for us when hes a walking pile of wifom. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 23 2012 02:12 syllogism wrote: No, stop saying we have to lynch someone at some point, that is not true unless he is scum. It is also not true that "no matter what" red is going to tell us it not going to improve the situation as he could for instance give us a "red" result, even if that is unlikely as scum most likely have a roleblocker. Why are you so against lynching BC? Did his reads in L impress you or where did you get the idea? Have his contributions impressed here so far? You realize he claimed tracker and not parity cop, right? There is no red result. There is just X visited Y last night. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 23 2012 02:31 Jackal58 wrote: I don't see how that precludes the possibility. If I remember right the wording was kind of funny, but the other faction was supposed to refer to the possibility of a serial killer. The odds of two scum factions with two players each is really low, it would be near impossible for them to win. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 23 2012 02:33 DoctorHelvetica wrote: No, I'm completely unfamiliar with BC's meta other than a game I played with him as scum too long ago to remember. That game was a perfect victory for us too. Dirkzor has made some alarming posts but also some solid points against other players, I want to hear how he responds to criticism before I consider lynching him because I may just be misunderstanding or misreading him. So you sheep all game and then say it's okay to lynch town just because "mafia won't shoot him" night 1? How do you know what the mafia will do? WIFOM galore and lynching town is not okay. K, I know you are smarter than this or at the very least functionally literate, so I'm going to give you around 20 minutes to read the last 3 pages of the thread and realize why this isn't some dumb wifom shit, its an obvious end result of RedFF's dipshit scummy claim. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 23 2012 02:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It is WIFOM. I agree scum would probably not shoot redFF if he is town AND survives Day 1 considering he's distracting and an easy lynch target, but I don't agree that it's alright to lynch town. redFF's claim is stupid and I'm not sold on it considering he didn't even say a name with it and just dipped out immediately. They should roleblock him but I just don't like making arguments or lynches based on predicting what the mafia will do. I can think of countless times I've been scum and we've concocted to do the opposite of what town would expect, even make bad shots just to confuse people. Mafia is not a game played by machines that make the most efficient decisions and even if what he said is likely correct, it is not helpful. You just got bumped up a few priorities on my scum list congrats, you are now neck and neck with BC. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 23 2012 03:09 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Okay. If there is any reason scum won't shoot RoL, it'd be the fact that he seems to have quit the game and will probably get modkilled anyway. What...? Did you mean shoot RedFF? And Syllogism, As I said before I am more than comfortable with the RedFF lynch. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 24 2012 09:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote: RoL's biggest tell in near all games as red that I can recall is his activity level. He lurks and will bust out excuses as to why he was inactive but always appears when he has to (called out or to avoid being heavily suspected, etc..) whereas town he even when busy with life shite always has quality posts if inactive. As for how much it will take for wbg is similar to what I would expect what it will take for myself or RoL. IE contribute. I am overall fine with aggressive posting but aside from a few of his posts he has come off as someone attempting to avoid leaving a huge mark on the thread in solid opinions. He obviously has had some solid posts, but he has a ton of fluff ones as well. LOL holy shit. Scum much? You have played enough with me to know my play is erratic and that I have played plenty of games active as scum. Just because I was busy for 16 hours (get over it guys) doesn't mean you are going to get away with this shit when I am actually reading the thread. Helvetica you are scum, will get to that in a minute though. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 24 2012 16:34 syllogism wrote: WBG seems fine to me so far. RoL on the other hand has done no scum hunting at all and basically voted for redff because he claimed tracker. Dr.H's case here makes a lot of sense. He also seemed fine with BC lynch which is ok, but he didn't add any reasons of his own other than just stating "I'd rather get him out of my head". What? I'm also not letting him get away with inactivity day after day as happened in Purgatory. That case better be amazing RoL and I don't want opinions just on one player ##vote Rebirthoflegend risk.nuke any thoughts on anyone at all? You still aren't playing the game despite getting called out. The few posts you have have basically no content. I've only very vague and weak reasons for believing that you might be town, but if you don't start posting content soon, that will change. You do remember you called me scum the entire game for being inactive day 1, even though I was active rest of the game? Then now you are mad because I was active day 1, but was busy part of day two? This wreaks of inconsistency, just saying dude. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 25 2012 01:26 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Your play is erratic only in terms of quality of your posts. Now and then you have things like work keeping you distracted or the like, but the level of posts you make are normally decent as town and lazyish as scum. If your telling me I am wrong on this, prove it to me. Til then your on my radar. Merc Mini Mafia, Insane Mafia, Insane Mafia II come to mind. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
Helvetica is scum, not really going to preface this but I will show the posts specifically and demonstrate my points. On February 23 2012 02:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It is WIFOM. I agree scum would probably not shoot redFF if he is town AND survives Day 1 considering he's distracting and an easy lynch target, but I don't agree that it's alright to lynch town. redFF's claim is stupid and I'm not sold on it considering he didn't even say a name with it and just dipped out immediately. They should roleblock him but I just don't like making arguments or lynches based on predicting what the mafia will do. I can think of countless times I've been scum and we've concocted to do the opposite of what town would expect, even make bad shots just to confuse people. Mafia is not a game played by machines that make the most efficient decisions and even if what he said is likely correct, it is not helpful. This post is scummy. Seriously, I can't stress this enough. The logic isn't congruent. Predicting scum behavior can be hard sometimes, but this is honestly one of the most straightforward uses of it. We know scum most likely has a RBer, or at the very least we are assuming that. When someone claims Day 1 so they don't die they intend to use their power to prove their claim, or that's the idea. As scum, you can claim must of been roleblock, but even if he's town then scum most definitely will roleblock him because we are forced to deal with RedFF giving no evidence to his innocence through role usage and holding off a claim that never actualizes. What? The mafia is going to mind fuck us by confirming a tracker....? I can't imagine any circumstance where they would let that happen. It's bullshit. On February 23 2012 09:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I didn't sheep anybody. I made my case on BC well before I even read syllogisms original post. You're connecting points I'm making in specific reference to other peoples posts to unrelated ideas. I was trying to illustrate that the wagon forming quickly doesn't mean much. The scum don't need to defend redFF if they can get somebody else lynched. I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him. Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for. I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself. This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. This is the second thing that really stood out to me. He's soft defending RedFF by trying to switch over to BC last minute while still saying he thinks RedFF is still possibly scum. If you think he's scum then why switch to BC? It doesn't make sense, then when the town decides on RedFF he marches right back over flip flopping. The first post I used and his behavior around the end of day 1 were both suspicious with the blatantly poor logic to defend redff, and the flipflopping BC/RedFF towards the end of Day 1. Day 1 DrH also barely did anything and posts a whole bunch of filler, but that can be said of most people. Its what his real activities goals were namely, soft defending RedFF without trying to make it obvious when there is one reason to try to mask who you are defending. Anyway, I had these reads since day 1. I skimmed the thread from day 2, but I will try to post more when I get back later. This two were some of the biggest scum reads I had day 1. So yeah, ##Vote DoctorHelvetica | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 24 2012 16:34 syllogism wrote: WBG seems fine to me so far. RoL on the other hand has done no scum hunting at all and basically voted for redff because he claimed tracker. Dr.H's case here makes a lot of sense. He also seemed fine with BC lynch which is ok, but he didn't add any reasons of his own other than just stating "I'd rather get him out of my head". What? I'm also not letting him get away with inactivity day after day as happened in Purgatory. That case better be amazing RoL and I don't want opinions just on one player ##vote Rebirthoflegend risk.nuke any thoughts on anyone at all? You still aren't playing the game despite getting called out. The few posts you have have basically no content. I've only very vague and weak reasons for believing that you might be town, but if you don't start posting content soon, that will change. Why am I giving opinions on multiple players when we can only kill one? I'd rather see how my other suspects react, so no. You aren't getting more suspects until I deem it proper. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:39 Jackal58 wrote: We know nothing of the sort. You may know something but I certainly know nothing. Nobody is informed if they took a hit. Nobody is informed if they were role blocked. Nobody is informed if they made a save. We don't know dick. We don't even know what kind of KP scum have. When is the last time you saw a set up without a roleblocker? Its a standard mafia role and its worth noting as a possibly. Without a RBer there is no way for mafia to stop a DT claim. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote: RoL thinks I'm mafia because I don't care about guessing what the mafia will do at night, especially after people are announcing it in the thread. Terrible analysis, he's doing it only out of defense and his "activity" is completely centered around his defense now. I swear to god, I get this shit every time. I'm not bothering defending your accusation which is retarded. You were mad I didn't reiterate points against BC, yet if I did I would get accused of having no original analysis. It's fucks me either way in your analysis so don't try to pretend that was even an actual point. I have over 30 posts and I have other shit to do, I don't get it. Do I need to spam 24/7 from my phone to not be accused of inactivity? I could surely go WBG/BH style all over this game if you want. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 25 2012 04:36 Blazinghand wrote: So it looks like RoL is lurking to me. In Purgatory Mafia he did the same thing and he was scum (a few IRL days in, though, he suggested some horrible mass claim plan that made it pretty clear). He has a few posts that are less lurkey: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426¤tpage=25#498 But no major reads, which I find scummy. He also is making posts like this: This seems like typical lurkin behavior, and attempting to generally dodge and be unhelpful. He does come to his own defense, but it's all meta ._. This is his only case: + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2012 01:48 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Forgive me if this is a bit brief, but I have to head to work soon, but I will be back around 6. Helvetica is scum, not really going to preface this but I will show the posts specifically and demonstrate my points. This post is scummy. Seriously, I can't stress this enough. The logic isn't congruent. Predicting scum behavior can be hard sometimes, but this is honestly one of the most straightforward uses of it. We know scum most likely has a RBer, or at the very least we are assuming that. When someone claims Day 1 so they don't die they intend to use their power to prove their claim, or that's the idea. As scum, you can claim must of been roleblock, but even if he's town then scum most definitely will roleblock him because we are forced to deal with RedFF giving no evidence to his innocence through role usage and holding off a claim that never actualizes. What? The mafia is going to mind fuck us by confirming a tracker....? I can't imagine any circumstance where they would let that happen. It's bullshit. This is the second thing that really stood out to me. He's soft defending RedFF by trying to switch over to BC last minute while still saying he thinks RedFF is still possibly scum. If you think he's scum then why switch to BC? It doesn't make sense, then when the town decides on RedFF he marches right back over flip flopping. The first post I used and his behavior around the end of day 1 were both suspicious with the blatantly poor logic to defend redff, and the flipflopping BC/RedFF towards the end of Day 1. Day 1 DrH also barely did anything and posts a whole bunch of filler, but that can be said of most people. Its what his real activities goals were namely, soft defending RedFF without trying to make it obvious when there is one reason to try to mask who you are defending. Anyway, I had these reads since day 1. I skimmed the thread from day 2, but I will try to post more when I get back later. This two were some of the biggest scum reads I had day 1. So yeah, ##Vote DoctorHelvetica and only after he was attacked. It strikes me as BS. He's lurking, but not as bad as Risk imo. If he doesn't shape up during this day I'd be comfortable going after him. At least he's made some statements that he can be held to. You are now on my invisible person list. I will never respond to one of your posts for rest of the game. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 25 2012 12:00 DoctorHelvetica wrote: It is an actual point. Your whole reason for voting redFF was that he claimed and instead of coming out and explaining why he is scum you just focused on the immediate point which was that he made a claim which was not a helpful town play but if RedFF was indeed town it's very understandable that he would claim tracker. A lot of the points made against BC were points I made anyway. I just don't understand how you could be so lazy to not offer any explanation for who you thought was scum until you got called out by me. The first time you even bothered to push a lynch or make a case for why someone was scum was defensively. Being inactive is one thing but I think you're scum because of your posts primarily. Youwant me to explain how every bit of redff's claim was scummy? As soon as I get home I will explain in explicit detail how given the set up and his experience that shit was incredibly antitown and it was a 24 hour preemptive defense before a lynch. He was scummy before the claim and the claim was scummy then how the fuck can you say he's town? I don't get this thought train you and syllogism are pushing that he was in any sense town. Secondly this omgus shit needs to stop. I called you scummy yesterday and just expanded on my case after you posted nonsense on me. Sorry I can't hound the thread 24/7 and post useless blocks of bullshit like you can and for that I get punished by these ridiculous claims day 2 every game. When I get back tonight if its not too late I will explain what I promised. I work 10-6 so I will definitely try to get that in before I have to work. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 25 2012 13:55 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Youwant me to explain how every bit of redff's claim was scummy? As soon as I get home I will explain in explicit detail how given the set up and his experience that shit was incredibly antitown and it was a 24 hour preemptive defense before a lynch. He was scummy before the claim and the claim was scummy then how the fuck can you say he's town? I don't get this thought train you and syllogism are pushing that he was in any sense town. Secondly this omgus shit needs to stop. I called you scummy yesterday and just expanded on my case after you posted nonsense on me. Sorry I can't hound the thread 24/7 and post useless blocks of bullshit like you can and for that I get punished by these ridiculous claims day 2 every game. When I get back tonight if its not too late I will explain what I promised. I work 10-6 so I will definitely try to get that in before I have to work. To elaborate now. RedFF was considered scummy for spamming/trolling/halfheartedly pushing policy lynches then admittedly jumping ship to easier lynch candidates simply because they were easier. There is a reason he was lynched, and there was a reason we thought he was scummy. Now I believe RedFF should have the experience to know a claim shouldn't save you. Just make a reasonable case, do some work and any logical and reasonable explanation of your behavior should be possible if you are town. Claiming a role 24 hours into the thread is not smart and in no way is it town. As I just said, no one should rely on a roleclaim to save them, especially in a closed set up. I have set it before, but hell why not do it again. We are in a closed set up. We don't know what additional roles the scum might have so claiming is really bad. Scum could have a role that can kill if you know a players role for all we know. Meaning he secured his fate. But more importantly, in most set ups for the sake of balance a roleblocker usually exists. If we assume that then a claim of tracker fucks us even harder. In this set up we are NOT alerted of RB's, etc. Meaning if RedFF is lying mafia doesn't even necessarily have to hide its RB since no one will ever know they were RBed. On top of this, RedFF can now never prove his claim because his action will theoretically never work until we lynch the roleblocker at which point RedFF could finally "prove" himself assuming he's not lying. He said if he gets RBed lynch him day 2, this is obviously a delay tactic and when scum "RB's" him we end up in the same spot tomorrow, having lynched someone less suspicious and scummy. As for the no flip, if he was scum it would make sense, especially if it was his own power. We really can't know. There might of been a better tactical use of it, there might still be that option. I can see the reasons scum might cover the lynch, but I could also see better uses of it assuming RedFF was town, so if RedFF as town doesn't really fit in with what we know, then all we have left is RedFF as scum. So yeah, I think RedFF was scum because his behavior before his claim was scummy. His actual claim was really bad in an antitown sense, and upon reading and seeing DrH trying to soft defend RedFF I believe RedFF was scum and DrH is scum. Can anyone think of ANY reason to try to subtly defend a player besides not wanting to be aligned with them, yet not wanting them dead? The only scenario where that happens is scum-scum since no town should be scared to openly have connections to players. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 26 2012 10:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote: when RoL actually does show up he posts like scum, chaoser is inconclusively inactive I'm mostly concerned by what RoL isn't saying, things he isn't noticing that he usually jumps all over people for but he just harps on about Red's claim and is OMGUSing hard You are retarded, I am not responding to your posts anymore. This game is seriously annoying me. I said you were scummy Day 1 and just because you put out some bullshit analysis on me first doesn't mean I am OMGUSing you. You ASKED for me to explain how RedFF is scummy and I did yet I am scummy for "continuing" to mention it when I brought it up like twice? Excellent! But its great you don't even know how to use OMGUS properly. If an accusation comes out of nowhere, then yes that could be an OMGUS scumtell. But its not a scumtell when I already voiced suspicions of you, I am allowed to think my accuser is legitimately scummy and when I have showed you before that, that is the case then you have no leg to stand on. Stop being bad. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 29 2012 07:05 kitaman27 wrote: I feel like I've seen this before. Oh right, I have. I swear you guys weren't going to get off my nuts if I kept talking, so I say fuck it kill me to clear the air and allow you guys to refocus and you don't do it? How does this make sense? Congrats on giving the mafia a free lynch tomorrow and nearly getting me modkilled and banned because you are all incompetent. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
I would rahter you vig me then waste tomorrows lynch on me, but knowing you guys and at this rate I am sure I will somehow survive to lylo an be the deciding lynch. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 29 2012 07:19 wherebugsgo wrote: And you still have no intention of doing anything, it looks like? Holy shit, why sign up for games if you're just going to go inactive, make a bunch of excuses, fake a ragequit, then come back again just to go "trolol just shoot me you guys all suck" You retards shrugged off every attempt at activity I ever made as OMGUS and worthless and were going to lynch me regardless of what I said. When I left the thread, you guys had every intention of killing me, and zero intention of ever listening to me. Why on Earth would I waste my valuable time continuing to fight an uphill battle for no reason when my shits dismissed without even being read? Hint: No one would. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 29 2012 07:33 wherebugsgo wrote: Who did you even push? Dr. H? Why the fuck would anyone listen to someone who clearly has no interest in the outcome of the lynch? I don't recall anyone accusing you of OMGUS, now you're just making shit up. Zero intention of listening to you? What the fuck was there to listen to in the first place? Learn to read, at least 3 players accused me of omgus. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 29 2012 07:45 Cwave wrote: So you align yourself for a modkill to avoid getting lynched and then at the last minute avoid the modkill? Horrible, shitty playstyle dude.... wtf. I never intended to get modkilled. I intended to let myself get lynched by town. There is a distinct difference. What you are saying is against the rules for one, and two would result in my ban. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 29 2012 09:03 wherebugsgo wrote: in what world is either of these "playing toward your wincondition"? I feel becuase of my current academic situation and girlfriend that I can't ever put in the level of activity to prove my innocence and by puting off my lynch it would just further confuse the town. Hence, letting you lynch me and avoiding confusion in a do or die situation like lylo/mylo is working towards my win condition. I also wouldn't want to let a player sub in for me because that's just dick, put someone in a terrible situation day 3 and make them fight up hill out of it, no sir. I did what I thought was best for town and you guys couldn't even follow through on it. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 01 2012 09:30 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Okay, please be careful with your language. It is somewhat possible RoL is the vet but his play doesn't make much sense if he is. I'll be voting RoL unless he can convince otherwise. I'm straight up not the vet. It would be retardedly anti town for me to request to be shot if I was town and the vet. On a related note Toad you are seriously using the worst logic I have ever seen. "I think WBG is scum, WBG made a list of 3 people he thinks are scum. Since he is scum he probably has one scum in that list, since one is dead, the other is me, the third has to be scum! So lets kill the third." This all hinges on WBG being scum........ so kill wherebugsgo......? Seriously, dumbest thing I have read. I mean I used similar logic to kill Kita in Responsibility mafia iirc where L commented on both BumAtLarge and Kita in the same post and when I knew rest of the scum team, I was able to determine what L was doing with that post and pin Kita as the last red. But why would you kill someone random in a 3 person list to confirm that the person who made the list is scum? Basically with your logic, if we kill the third and he's scum then WBG is scum, and if we kill the third and he's town WBG is town. I don't see how you don't see the incongruency in the way you are approaching this. It wreaks of purposeful stupidity considering I never saw any other post by you with such blatantly inconsistent logic. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 01 2012 09:53 Toadesstern wrote: not to begin with the fact that you basicly claimed mafia. Requesting to be shot as town-vet is anto town and retarded but ragequitting just to vote 2 mins before deadline without posting shit and requesting to be shot as "townie" is not playing anti-town? Because you retards are still wasting your time chasing a retarded lynch on me, so instead of having my existence dominate town discussion today it would be better that you kill me. Killing a player that creates confusion on the next cycle (while obviously maintaining the chance of being scum) is a protown move from a vigilante. They don't have to just kill scum although that is obviously beneficial. I ragequit so you retards could lynch me, come back and find out I am about to get modkilled because you guys aren't killing me. I would not let myself get modkilled because straight up I am not taking a ban to help you assholes out. On top of which, that's cheating according to the OP. I knew avoiding my confusion at a later time would be more beneficial to you, so I choose to let you kill me. You choose not to, if I choose to just let the mods kill me I will get a severe ban for cheating to help the town achieve victory. If you can't get why I would vote in the last few minutes as I turn my laptop on in class and was informed I was about to be modkilled. From now on when you think about asking that I am just going to link to this post because I am not repeating myself again. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 01 2012 10:50 kitaman27 wrote: You're going to be voting for yourself to help us retards out, right RoL? If you are actually trying to lynch me and you still think that's the best idea, sure. I have crap to do anyway and if you want to get rid of someone who actually has the capacity to put thought into the game by all means do it. Honestly you guys are retarded and I still don't get how the fuck you thought I was going to let myself get modkilled. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 01 2012 11:28 VisceraEyes wrote: I've already given you my thoughts on WBG. RoL is...up in the air for me right now. I could feasibly get behind a RoL lynch if he doesn't do anything other than continually insult town for not lynching him. But his reaction seems genuine and I don't like him as a lynch for now. We'll see what kind of contribution he can muster between now and deadline. Hey! I exposed toads logically inconsistent argument! | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 01 2012 12:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Well, technically you and DocH did that. Anyway, does his logically inconsistent argument make him scum? And are you going to vote for him? If no or no, then you still haven't done much bro.  I skimmed his posts, never read/analyzed his whole filter. The argument seemed weird and like an excuse to not kill wherebugsgo but still call him scummy, which is... awkward? I didn't really do that, unless you are referring to me speculating that redff was scum which I would contend is very different. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 01 2012 12:43 Toadesstern wrote: just to get this straight. To me this reads as: VE and RoL are both equally good lynches or at least almost equally good lynches and we need to lynch either of those two today [that was the first sentece + context of the my posts before that] Now if you're a little townie and you're concerned about a VE-lynch because you think WBG might be a townie himself, fear not, because WBG's alignment is not a problem for a VE-lynch. No matter WBG's alignment he would suggest a VE-lynch. If he's mafia to mix up his lists and as a townie to catch scum. Therefore WBG's alignment is of no matter when deciding whether or not to lynch VE. I tried to make it sound fancy this time, did it work? :3 You specifically were saying that WBG's list was the way you were justifying killing VE. Since scum would not likely make an entirely town list. Now you are dismissing that, even though it was the initial premise of your first argument to kill VE. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 01 2012 12:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Do you still think that red was scum RoL? To be honest, once again I haven't kept up with the thread enough to be definitive or really know what drh has done since Day 2 as far as indepth analysis goes, but the way I read that scenario was that 1. RedFF was scummy Day 1, we killed him. 2. I saw DrH seemingly soft defending RedFF while trying to appear not to. For those who are more knowledgeable of what has exactly gone on I would predict that DrH would have a significant presence in the last couple of miss lynches if he was scum. So if you have observed that you could infer helvetica is scummy. But that is one thing, I wouldn't solely look at that one incident for a day 4 lynch, for day 2 I found that adequate enough to warrant a push and pressure which was largely ignored. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 01 2012 18:38 Tyrran wrote: RoL case is a bit special. The fact that he insist on town lynching him proves that he is not town. So either he is mafia, with a special ability that trigger as he dies, or he is a village idiot, winning when lynched. Lastly, he could also be a traitor, making us waste a lynch on him as mafia goes unscatted. DocH : You havent shared the results of your investigation yet? Why ? My stand on WBG : Rereading the game, he has been on the wrong lynches all game long. He pushed for : RedFF ( hidden), BH ( Blue), prplhz (green). This and he admitted that he knew that Syllo was blue the nigth he shot him. He also soft-protected RoL from dying day 3. (" Dont lynch RoL, he is going to be modkilled") The fact that he willingly said he knew Syllo was blue made me think he was town. I mean, mafia WBG could just have hidden that. wouldnt that have been strictly better from mafia point of vue ? So for now i'm still unsure. I will reread VE's filter today too. This is wrong, I haven't wanted to be lynched since you retards failed yesterday. Ideally, lynching me day 3 seemed like at the time it would clear things up. That isn't the case anymore and we are basically in mylo right now since its 6/10. If we miss lynch we lose. I obviously don't want to die now since it would cost us the game and not help. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=232648 | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 02 2012 07:51 VisceraEyes wrote: RoL you're strangely quiet about the lack of BC in this game. I was going to wait to bring it up, but you continue to ignore it. We've both been targets of his, but we're both still alive. Does that sound par for the townBC course? Last time I harshed on him for inactivity was responsibility and I was wrong then. So I dunno, I guess he has just been apathetic lately. Besides, who am I to judge for lack of thread presence? | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 02 2012 08:41 kitaman27 wrote: On the issue of RoL: By not taking care of him on day two or day three we're in a tough spot. If he's town then the game is probably over. If we don't lynch him today, do we pass him up when its 4v3? If we don't lynch him then, do we pass him up when its 3v2? 2v1? Lets look at Coupes Mini Mafia where he was scum: Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281403&user=41447 Despite these promises of contribution, he was perfectly content to sitting by and watch the town mislynch, while surviving until LYLO. He blatantly abused the fact that town will not lynch a player who has no posts. Now lets look at this game: Again, false promises of contribution. RoL has made ONE argument against someone the entire game (DrH). When I pointed out a flaw in the case, I asked three different times for him to respond. He didn't. Now lets look at the rage quit moment: RoL tells us to lynch him and doesn't post for the entire day. Two minutes before the lynch, he votes, preventing anyone from switching over to him. Is RoL honestly the type of person that would have the nerve to call everyone incompetent and retards after quitting the game and playing against his win condition? I know he is an angry person, but this would be a whole new level :p "Hey guys, thanks for letting me live! I'm going to finally start playing two weeks into the game." That ship has sallied a long time ago. If you really cared about town winning, you wouldn't have asked to be lynched. Asking for a lynch as town ruins games. During the incredibly unlike scenario that you were town and wanted to be lynched, you wouldn't wait to show up 2 minutes before the deadline to make sure you were indeed getting lynched. What type of player assumes that not voting wouldn't result in a modkill? You've probably played 30+ games here. What kind of assumption is this to make? If you didn't have time to play the game, you would have subbed out. Look at kurumi's excellent turnaround when he subbed in for chaoser. He went from an extremely inactive player that many considered to be scum to such an obvious town that the mafia team had to hit him the day after he subbed in. syllo was in favor of a RoL lynch....night hit. Kurumi was in favor of a RoL lynch....night hit. DrH, one of the most experienced players who claimed blue opposed the RoL lynch....left alive every night. There were no mafia hits that flipped on night one. bugs confirms that I received a healing potion night one from syllo through his mason quicktopic. If someone else received a potion from syllo night one, they can counterclaim me. Therefore, I think it is more than obvious that I'm town. With 4 mafia players remaining, a single misplaced town vote ends the game. That means we have to vote together or the game is over. If you are town, ##Vote RoL Just going to point out, I specifically meant to back out of that game because I can't stand the idea of playing a game with Kurumi, let alone being his conjoined twin for the event. I got unlucky and didn't send my PM quick enough to /out. What question/hole didn't I answer Kita? You haven't pointed it out again, but I will more than happily oblige. If you try to meta me, it won't work. Want to give it a shot? Look at the last game I was in, I defended myself to the last minute as scum. Look at responsibility, I was town and still relatively inactive to the point that I made it to lylo and won the game for the town. You can look at any number of games where I will exhibit a variety of play styles as both town and scum. Trying to meta me simply won't work. Show me posting where I am scummy and I will show you either a mindless player, or a player full of shit. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 02 2012 09:36 kitaman27 wrote: Your argument against DrH was based on the fact that he defend his scumbuddy redff. I pointed out that if redff was scum and DrH cast the deciding vote against his own scumbuddy redff, the mafia team would not mask redff's flip. You were arguing that the scum team decided to bus and then hide all the evidence that a bus was present. Wrong, RedFF was dead before Helvetica dropped the vote. Jitsu killed him 7-6, then helvetica switched to too. It's silly to speculate on why exactly scum covered red's lynch when we don't know why or how it happened. Maybe red did it to himself, we really don't know. On March 02 2012 09:24 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: If you try to meta me, it won't work. Want to give it a shot? Look at the last game I was in, I defended myself to the last minute as scum. Meta is irrelevant. My case would hold for any player, regardless of past history. You haven't contributed at all to the thread and quit the game asking for a lynch. That kind of behavior should be lynched 100% of the time. Even if you flip town, I'd rather lose to a fake claiming scum team than a player who disappears for a week and then rages at the town for not killing him.[/quote] It's good you would rather lose as town by killing me, since killing me loses you the game. I was letting you lynch me, that was protown agenda at the time because you wanted me dead and I understood the points. Lynching for clarification and simplicity is important aspect of town. You can't let really confusing situations sit until lylo, like letting RedFF live with scummy play and a terrible claim. It's simply bad and complicates things, complexity benefits mafia, so lynching for clarification and maintaining simplicity is good.You aren't a bad player and should know that. On March 02 2012 09:24 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Show me posting where I am scummy Trick question. You haven't posted anything worth looking at besides the DrH case this game. Show me posting where you have the town's best interests in mind (and asking to be lynched doesn't count)[/QUOTE] It's amazing you time this case after helvetica flips town which just goes to make my one case look worse. In a virtual mylo that we are in this case is like your golden goose. Go ahead, keep using piss poor logic. You and cwave keep looking more and more like shit. This case is so conveniently timed its astounding you had the gall to do it. But I am sure cwave will shep the vote like he tried doing yesteday in one of his shit two sentence posts. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
And do answer you, its a matter of coincidence. My law class starts at 4:55, I get in a couple minutes early boot up my laptop and skype autologs in, to which I get a message, or messages I received while not at my computer. It wasn't me conveniently checking TL PMs. Lol, its really funny though, this is the exact reason I said it was beneficial to lynch me two days ago. Becuase if you let me live until mylo, you give mafia the easiest win ever. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
Awkward claim that someone incriminates me. Terrible logic on killing VE to confirm WBG as scum, never actively helped a lynch and sheeped votes. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 03 2012 06:53 Tyrran wrote: Layabout is scum. Lynch rol now. I'm the operator. MAKE IT HAPPEN, WE HAVE TIME! | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 13 2012 07:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote: can you post mafia qt We used skype all game, our mafia QT is fairly empty. My apologies for the inactivity. I never actually intended on rage quitting but I watched you guys nearly let RedFF with his shit claim off the hook because his rage quit seemed townish. The only reasonable that flipped back on him was because of the scum team. I still say killing RedFF was the right thing to do. On that note, I figured if I just went AFK and let mafia subtly divert the lynch we would be in a good position to bus me the next day. I knew the 5 minutes before deadline thing was going to be scummy as fuck, I intended to do it sooner but a bunch of you were active in thread and I wanted to minimize the risk of a vote switch figuring I was doomed regardless. I will say I think it was a mistake for my team to not just bus me at that point, but on the same note I'd say they were in a precarious position anyway since most of them were suspect, but I think not bussing me quashed any doubts anyone had about them. I do think there was a LOT of blue roles and in a virtually 1 KP set up we had 3 of our KP blocked or something like that? pretty messed up. We considered using the RB + kill strategy but without anyone knowing if we RBed them that strategy has less of an advantage since we are not hiding the fact a roleblocker exists for us. If you go back and look at the action list, I still say we made the right decision with the RBs. VE targetted us twice I think RBed both times which helped us, but at the same time no one knew a third party existed and the only time we noticed was when Tyrran died effectively killing LayAbout. For reference, Bonebreaker = roleblocker for all purposes. Same role, different name. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 13 2012 08:07 kitaman27 wrote: You can't lynch the sk if it gives the scum team control over the lynch. o.O If I remember right, the town had lost the game right as soon as DrH blew up with whoever that was. At that point you were even numbered with mafia + SK and your only chance was for the SK to kill us which he wouldn't do knowing he would auto win. You kill the SK mafia wins, means you can only lynch mafia and hope the SK fucks up which didn't happen since we were RBing him. Not that anyone really knew he existed at that point, but still. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 13 2012 08:24 wherebugsgo wrote: RoL I'd suggest next time you join a game, you actually play it. The only reason I didn't bus you day 1 was because you kept promising to be active, and you were actually on skype. Hell, you were on long enough to argue with the hosts for 2 hours. Mafia is a teamgame, and your play this game was essentially that of the freeloader in a group project. yeah, I know you are pissed. Sorry about that, work schedule + school + girlfriend I can't do it. I don't plan on playing another game no matter how tempting until I break up with girlfriend, quit my job, or graduate. Any two of the above and I would have enough time to play. While I would agree that my play was poor and a reason we lost, you should of acknowledged that I had too many people gunning for me by day 2 and 3 that trying to not let me die day 4 was stupid. I spoke to you guys all day 3 about how if this worked you should be bussing me the next day. Instead we got greedy and went for the win when it was extremely unlikely we would get it. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On March 13 2012 08:26 kitaman27 wrote: heh naw I deserve some of the blame due to the slow start. I really should have pushed RoL harder day two, rather than blazing, but it is incredibly difficult to build a case against a player without any posts. redFF was tough since he decided to rage quit after the strange start. It was a similar situation to day three. If he doesn't return then he is obviously town, but if he pulls a RoL, then its a wasted day. I think I'm just going to policy lynch martyrs from now on. It's so incredibly easy for scum players to lurk hard. If I hadn't had a check on risk/cwave, I'm pretty sure they would have been mislynched due to inactivity at some point. The one thing I disagree with Palmar in his post game analysis was the prpl lynch. I don't think the case against him was all that bad. This game turned out really similar to Responsibility. A bunch of mislynches at the start, resulting in multiple LYLO situations. In that game, we went for the bus, which turned out to be the incorrect decision. In this game, you guys went for the all-in, which also seems like it was the less optimal choice. Tough break for mafia teams -_- This is exactly the mentality that pisses me off and the reason I did that AFK move. I knew arguing would dig my own grave but that town interprets rage quits as a town tell which I understand but shouldn't fly as policy. As a townie, you can just get annoyed and rage quit because you don't think it matters if you as a green or w/e die. As mafia we can't EVER rage quit because we are on a team. So using that logic if someone rage quits and isn't trying to live then they are town. So I used that presumption you guys had to survive a lynch. It pissed me off that it took 4 mafia to bandwagon to get RedFF to die. To clarify, the reason we chose to cover that lynch was multi-pronged. First off, there were 4 of us on it and I'd rather town never get that information and be able to look at that lynch and decide. Second of all, it was a oneshot power and BC almost died anyway. We figured use it and have BC submit our hits so that if BC is ever tracked or something we wouldn't be losing a power like RB, Medic, or Poison since BC was already spent on his other power. The third reason is something I disagree with Palmar about. The town can't ever know what RedFF's true alignment is and only inferences can be gleaned from presumptions such as "Only town would rage quit" which I later showed you is incorrect. Sure you can examine differences between the Day 1 and Day 3 lynches and figure out what was different about them that makes Day 3 a scum rage quit and Day 1 not, but those problems were products of the players and this game specifically and I don't think would be useful later on. Also, hypothetically if you lynched BC Day 1 instead, his lynch would of been covered since he could Janitor his own lynch. So yes, we could of been covering a day 1 mafia lynch as well and without a doubt would have. | ||
|
RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
| ||
| ||
