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Storm Mafia - Page 4

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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 02 2012 00:24 GMT
#2084
On March 02 2012 08:41 kitaman27 wrote:
On the issue of RoL:

By not taking care of him on day two or day three we're in a tough spot. If he's town then the game is probably over. If we don't lynch him today, do we pass him up when its 4v3? If we don't lynch him then, do we pass him up when its 3v2? 2v1?

Lets look at Coupes Mini Mafia where he was scum:
Filter:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=281403&user=41447

Show nested quote +
On November 04 2011 22:14 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Sorry guys, I have been a bit busy. I have a class but will be home in a few hours and can post.


Show nested quote +
On November 05 2011 02:41 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Alright, well I just got back from school and haven't read shit all so it might take me a little while to catch up. Until then if there is anything important I should know, feel free to reply. It shouldn't take me more than an hour or two to catch up depending on the spam content.


Show nested quote +
On November 06 2011 19:09 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I just skimmed the last page, I am sorry about my inactivity, I will be able to contribute tomorrow at around 4-5pm because that's when I get out of work. I keep getting sidelined by real life stuff lately, once again my apologies.


Show nested quote +
On November 07 2011 22:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I just got to my internship, saw that on my way out of my house. I was going to catch up now. M


Despite these promises of contribution, he was perfectly content to sitting by and watch the town mislynch, while surviving until LYLO. He blatantly abused the fact that town will not lynch a player who has no posts.

Now lets look at this game:

Show nested quote +
On February 22 2012 06:28 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
The game isn't even 20 hours in yet. I was busy last night. I should be able to put on a better show this game though. I'm catching up a bit, reading on page 13 right now.


Show nested quote +
On February 24 2012 16:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Hey guys, sorry about inactivity today I just got home. I will be on tomorrow around 6pm EST from work and will post my case then.


Show nested quote +
On February 25 2012 01:48 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Forgive me if this is a bit brief, but I have to head to work soon, but I will be back around 6.


Show nested quote +
On February 27 2012 06:41 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
When I get back from my job interview you will get analysis if you were smart enough to not kill me.


Again, false promises of contribution. RoL has made ONE argument against someone the entire game (DrH). When I pointed out a flaw in the case, I asked three different times for him to respond. He didn't.

Now lets look at the rage quit moment:

Show nested quote +
On February 28 2012 07:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
K man, if you guys really want to lynch me go ahead. I'm not arguing a stupid uphill battle anymore against the dumbass town and scumteam when I have school work to do among other things. If you think killing me will help then win then glhf


RoL tells us to lynch him and doesn't post for the entire day. Two minutes before the lynch, he votes, preventing anyone from switching over to him.

Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 07:09 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
On February 29 2012 07:05 kitaman27 wrote:
I feel like I've seen this before. Oh right, I have.

Congrats on giving the mafia a free lynch tomorrow and nearly getting me modkilled and banned because you are all incompetent.


Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 09:00 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I intended to let myself get lynched by town. There is a distinct difference. What you are saying is against the rules for one, and two would result in my ban.


Is RoL honestly the type of person that would have the nerve to call everyone incompetent and retards after quitting the game and playing against his win condition? I know he is an angry person, but this would be a whole new level :p

Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 10:15 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Great, now I might actually have to be productive and hope you guys listen to me for a change. This is an odd time for a fresh start but I guess who am I to argue with fortune.


"Hey guys, thanks for letting me live! I'm going to finally start playing two weeks into the game."

That ship has sallied a long time ago. If you really cared about town winning, you wouldn't have asked to be lynched. Asking for a lynch as town ruins games. During the incredibly unlike scenario that you were town and wanted to be lynched, you wouldn't wait to show up 2 minutes before the deadline to make sure you were indeed getting lynched. What type of player assumes that not voting wouldn't result in a modkill? You've probably played 30+ games here. What kind of assumption is this to make?

Show nested quote +
On February 29 2012 09:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
I also wouldn't want to let a player sub in for me because that's just dick, put someone in a terrible situation day 3 and make them fight up hill out of it, no sir. .


If you didn't have time to play the game, you would have subbed out. Look at kurumi's excellent turnaround when he subbed in for chaoser. He went from an extremely inactive player that many considered to be scum to such an obvious town that the mafia team had to hit him the day after he subbed in.

syllo was in favor of a RoL lynch....night hit.
Kurumi was in favor of a RoL lynch....night hit.
DrH, one of the most experienced players who claimed blue opposed the RoL lynch....left alive every night.

There were no mafia hits that flipped on night one. bugs confirms that I received a healing potion night one from syllo through his mason quicktopic. If someone else received a potion from syllo night one, they can counterclaim me.

Therefore, I think it is more than obvious that I'm town. With 4 mafia players remaining, a single misplaced town vote ends the game. That means we have to vote together or the game is over.

If you are town, ##Vote RoL


Just going to point out, I specifically meant to back out of that game because I can't stand the idea of playing a game with Kurumi, let alone being his conjoined twin for the event. I got unlucky and didn't send my PM quick enough to /out.

What question/hole didn't I answer Kita? You haven't pointed it out again, but I will more than happily oblige.

If you try to meta me, it won't work. Want to give it a shot? Look at the last game I was in, I defended myself to the last minute as scum. Look at responsibility, I was town and still relatively inactive to the point that I made it to lylo and won the game for the town.

You can look at any number of games where I will exhibit a variety of play styles as both town and scum. Trying to meta me simply won't work. Show me posting where I am scummy and I will show you either a mindless player, or a player full of shit.
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 02 2012 01:09 GMT
#2090
On March 02 2012 09:36 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2012 09:24 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
What question/hole didn't I answer Kita? You haven't pointed it out again, but I will more than happily oblige.


Your argument against DrH was based on the fact that he defend his scumbuddy redff. I pointed out that if redff was scum and DrH cast the deciding vote against his own scumbuddy redff, the mafia team would not mask redff's flip. You were arguing that the scum team decided to bus and then hide all the evidence that a bus was present.

Wrong, RedFF was dead before Helvetica dropped the vote. Jitsu killed him 7-6, then helvetica switched to too. It's silly to speculate on why exactly scum covered red's lynch when we don't know why or how it happened. Maybe red did it to himself, we really don't know.


On March 02 2012 09:24 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
If you try to meta me, it won't work. Want to give it a shot? Look at the last game I was in, I defended myself to the last minute as scum.


Meta is irrelevant. My case would hold for any player, regardless of past history. You haven't contributed at all to the thread and quit the game asking for a lynch. That kind of behavior should be lynched 100% of the time. Even if you flip town, I'd rather lose to a fake claiming scum team than a player who disappears for a week and then rages at the town for not killing him.[/quote]
It's good you would rather lose as town by killing me, since killing me loses you the game. I was letting you lynch me, that was protown agenda at the time because you wanted me dead and I understood the points. Lynching for clarification and simplicity is important aspect of town. You can't let really confusing situations sit until lylo, like letting RedFF live with scummy play and a terrible claim. It's simply bad and complicates things, complexity benefits mafia, so lynching for clarification and maintaining simplicity is good.You aren't a bad player and should know that.

On March 02 2012 09:24 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Show me posting where I am scummy


Trick question. You haven't posted anything worth looking at besides the DrH case this game.

Show me posting where you have the town's best interests in mind (and asking to be lynched doesn't count)[/QUOTE]
It's amazing you time this case after helvetica flips town which just goes to make my one case look worse. In a virtual mylo that we are in this case is like your golden goose. Go ahead, keep using piss poor logic. You and cwave keep looking more and more like shit. This case is so conveniently timed its astounding you had the gall to do it. But I am sure cwave will shep the vote like he tried doing yesteday in one of his shit two sentence posts.
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 02 2012 01:31 GMT
#2094
I usually tend to ignore BC.
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 02 2012 13:24 GMT
#2114
lol wow, you all don't see this lynch happening too easy? Whatever man, I have work and I will be back after the deadline, but I will log on and cast my vote before the deadline.

And do answer you, its a matter of coincidence. My law class starts at 4:55, I get in a couple minutes early boot up my laptop and skype autologs in, to which I get a message, or messages I received while not at my computer. It wasn't me conveniently checking TL PMs.

Lol, its really funny though, this is the exact reason I said it was beneficial to lynch me two days ago. Becuase if you let me live until mylo, you give mafia the easiest win ever.
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 02 2012 13:29 GMT
#2115
I will tentatively vote toad, but I will check from work to see if you guys found a better target later. But seriously.
Awkward claim that someone incriminates me. Terrible logic on killing VE to confirm WBG as scum, never actively helped a lynch and sheeped votes.
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 02 2012 21:52 GMT
#2195
lol just turned laptop on form work. gg guys way to blow the game exactly as I predicted two days ago.
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 02 2012 21:56 GMT
#2199
On March 03 2012 06:53 Tyrran wrote:
Layabout is scum. Lynch rol now. I'm the operator.

MAKE IT HAPPEN, WE HAVE TIME!
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 02 2012 21:56 GMT
#2201
We have a perfect counterclaim situation and a chance to win this right now.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 02 2012 21:56 GMT
#2202
##Vote LayAbout
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 03 2012 00:24 GMT
#2268
gg
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 12 2012 23:19 GMT
#2603
On March 13 2012 07:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
can you post mafia qt

We used skype all game, our mafia QT is fairly empty.

My apologies for the inactivity. I never actually intended on rage quitting but I watched you guys nearly let RedFF with his shit claim off the hook because his rage quit seemed townish. The only reasonable that flipped back on him was because of the scum team. I still say killing RedFF was the right thing to do. On that note, I figured if I just went AFK and let mafia subtly divert the lynch we would be in a good position to bus me the next day. I knew the 5 minutes before deadline thing was going to be scummy as fuck, I intended to do it sooner but a bunch of you were active in thread and I wanted to minimize the risk of a vote switch figuring I was doomed regardless. I will say I think it was a mistake for my team to not just bus me at that point, but on the same note I'd say they were in a precarious position anyway since most of them were suspect, but I think not bussing me quashed any doubts anyone had about them.

I do think there was a LOT of blue roles and in a virtually 1 KP set up we had 3 of our KP blocked or something like that? pretty messed up. We considered using the RB + kill strategy but without anyone knowing if we RBed them that strategy has less of an advantage since we are not hiding the fact a roleblocker exists for us. If you go back and look at the action list, I still say we made the right decision with the RBs. VE targetted us twice I think RBed both times which helped us, but at the same time no one knew a third party existed and the only time we noticed was when Tyrran died effectively killing LayAbout.

For reference, Bonebreaker = roleblocker for all purposes. Same role, different name.
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 12 2012 23:24 GMT
#2605
On March 13 2012 08:07 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2012 08:06 wherebugsgo wrote:
On March 13 2012 07:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
Palmar was traitor in Responsibility, not L. FOOL!


Right, my bad.


On March 13 2012 07:59 Toadesstern wrote:
On March 13 2012 07:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also Toad it doesn't matter that you caught any of us when you singlehandedly were one of the worst players for town.

Saying something like "I don't care that there's third party when they're helping town" is funny in retrospect, but really really dumb.

As town your goal is to kill all nontown, indiscriminately. As the setup is closed you have no idea what you're up against, so you just kill whoeever fits a scum agenda. VE wasn'f playing to his town meta (look at the countercase I built on him d3; 100% of that case, I would repeat as a townie)

Layabout and I tried swinging the town lynch onto VE multiple times.
Ultimately I think we could have approached that differently and potentially gotten him killed for our gain if we opposed the prpl lynch, or bussed RoL. However in terms of self preservation and not knowing 100% at the time it was difficult to make that assessment.

Also something that's funny is that it's really really easy to find third parties as scum. In every scum game I've played that had third party in it, I've caught onto them, with my strongest case often being on them. Ex. MLP tnkted was third party, in L Palmar was traitor, in AC Palmar/Kurumi were third party, and this game with VE.

I guess I should push those reads more strongly in thread and back off the obv town mislynches :p


yeah but we were at lylo. How can people even suggest talking about 3rd parties when we desperatly need to kill mafia first. That's the point. I did not care about 3rd parties as long as there were confirmed mafias around and the 3rd party thing was a guess which, if wrong, would have caused us to insta-lose the game. Even if it was right lynching the 3rd party instead of a mafia could have lost us the game at some point.


Except it should've been obvious there was an SK when two people died (IIRC?)

Also, generally the only way most SKs can die is through lynch. Which means, at that stage in the game, you have to lynch the SK because otherwise you can't kill him.



You can't lynch the sk if it gives the scum team control over the lynch. o.O

If I remember right, the town had lost the game right as soon as DrH blew up with whoever that was. At that point you were even numbered with mafia + SK and your only chance was for the SK to kill us which he wouldn't do knowing he would auto win. You kill the SK mafia wins, means you can only lynch mafia and hope the SK fucks up which didn't happen since we were RBing him.

Not that anyone really knew he existed at that point, but still.
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 12 2012 23:27 GMT
#2607
On March 13 2012 08:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
RoL I'd suggest next time you join a game, you actually play it. The only reason I didn't bus you day 1 was because you kept promising to be active, and you were actually on skype. Hell, you were on long enough to argue with the hosts for 2 hours.

Mafia is a teamgame, and your play this game was essentially that of the freeloader in a group project.

yeah, I know you are pissed. Sorry about that, work schedule + school + girlfriend I can't do it. I don't plan on playing another game no matter how tempting until I break up with girlfriend, quit my job, or graduate. Any two of the above and I would have enough time to play.

While I would agree that my play was poor and a reason we lost, you should of acknowledged that I had too many people gunning for me by day 2 and 3 that trying to not let me die day 4 was stupid. I spoke to you guys all day 3 about how if this worked you should be bussing me the next day. Instead we got greedy and went for the win when it was extremely unlikely we would get it.
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
March 12 2012 23:35 GMT
#2610
On March 13 2012 08:26 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 13 2012 08:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
Kita you played pretty well; sorry your team sucked. lol.


heh naw I deserve some of the blame due to the slow start. I really should have pushed RoL harder day two, rather than blazing, but it is incredibly difficult to build a case against a player without any posts. redFF was tough since he decided to rage quit after the strange start. It was a similar situation to day three. If he doesn't return then he is obviously town, but if he pulls a RoL, then its a wasted day.

I think I'm just going to policy lynch martyrs from now on. It's so incredibly easy for scum players to lurk hard. If I hadn't had a check on risk/cwave, I'm pretty sure they would have been mislynched due to inactivity at some point.

The one thing I disagree with Palmar in his post game analysis was the prpl lynch. I don't think the case against him was all that bad.

This game turned out really similar to Responsibility. A bunch of mislynches at the start, resulting in multiple LYLO situations. In that game, we went for the bus, which turned out to be the incorrect decision. In this game, you guys went for the all-in, which also seems like it was the less optimal choice. Tough break for mafia teams -_-

This is exactly the mentality that pisses me off and the reason I did that AFK move. I knew arguing would dig my own grave but that town interprets rage quits as a town tell which I understand but shouldn't fly as policy. As a townie, you can just get annoyed and rage quit because you don't think it matters if you as a green or w/e die. As mafia we can't EVER rage quit because we are on a team. So using that logic if someone rage quits and isn't trying to live then they are town. So I used that presumption you guys had to survive a lynch.

It pissed me off that it took 4 mafia to bandwagon to get RedFF to die. To clarify, the reason we chose to cover that lynch was multi-pronged. First off, there were 4 of us on it and I'd rather town never get that information and be able to look at that lynch and decide. Second of all, it was a oneshot power and BC almost died anyway. We figured use it and have BC submit our hits so that if BC is ever tracked or something we wouldn't be losing a power like RB, Medic, or Poison since BC was already spent on his other power. The third reason is something I disagree with Palmar about. The town can't ever know what RedFF's true alignment is and only inferences can be gleaned from presumptions such as "Only town would rage quit" which I later showed you is incorrect. Sure you can examine differences between the Day 1 and Day 3 lynches and figure out what was different about them that makes Day 3 a scum rage quit and Day 1 not, but those problems were products of the players and this game specifically and I don't think would be useful later on. Also, hypothetically if you lynched BC Day 1 instead, his lynch would of been covered since he could Janitor his own lynch. So yes, we could of been covering a day 1 mafia lynch as well and without a doubt would have.
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RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-12 23:40:18
March 12 2012 23:39 GMT
#2612
I'd agree, and yes, I am aware I made myself look terrible Day 4, I was posting thoughtlessly and every time I hit submit I kept facepalming myself. I would say once that bomb went off I was really fucked though. Those two people who died were both thinking I was town and could of voted for toad or someone else, but instead we lost two prospective votes to a suicide bomb which was quite meh.
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