|
On March 13 2012 07:46 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 07:37 wherebugsgo wrote:
Hahahahahahahahahaha
GJ on the win VE.
I wish I had a bit more time to think during this game. I will probably be policy bussing RoL if he's ever on a scumteam with me again lololol
Also I noticed on the night syllo gave me the pot, if I drank it we could've RBed someone other than VE. I knew it was a healing pot but I forgot to send my action in (my team also told me not to take the risk) If we got town to kill VE instead of prpl we would've had a much better chance at winning after day 3.
Last thing I want to mention is that I think this setup had too many blues. It essentially had two town investigative roles: tracker, and hider. Some of the roles didn't seem roleblockable (for example, is alchemist roleblockable?) The existence of the town RB meant that town could stop KP in three different ways: hider drawing hits, alchemist giving potions, and RBer targeting poisoner/killer. Honestly if I were the RB I would've targeted RoL every night and it would have resulted in Jackal surviving. 9 blues and 4 greens...when have you seen a setup where the number of blues outnumbers both vanilla town and scum combined? Hell, blues made up half the playerbase.
Yet, you guys still lost...lol. Counting the number of blues is decieving. Plenty of hosts have used the formula #blue=mafia count * 2 The foresnic expert's only purpose was to verify the existance of a third party player. Floridian is pretty weak. The vig's were nerfed and the hider is about as low as you can go on the tier list of investigative roles. Add in the fact that mafia had 4 power roles and it's not all that bad. I'm not sure why you guys got a bonebreaker, rather than roleblocker though. Unless I'm missing its use? I do agree that the roleblocker being able to stop scum kp is too powerful. Scum qt link?
Forensic expert could determine whether a vig killed someone (e.g. syllo)
In a setup of this size normally you have 5-6 blues. You have some sort of town one shot or two shot KP, one or two investigative roles, one or two protective roles, and then one or two "weaker" roles (or at least less prominent in terms of actions, like a mason pair or double voter)
In this game you had an infinite vet/town confirmer in the hider. If you want to be a vet forever just hide behind someone who will never get shot, and the only way you can die is if you're roleblocked. Otherwise you can slowly start confirming people.
You had a hybrid KP/protective role in the alchemist. No idea if he had a limit on uses, and he's not as powerful as you might think, but still useful.
Floridian whose extra vote doesn't appear; that's incredibly strong (stronger than you'd think in cases of split votes. D1 it could have been instrumental)
Town RB who could: stop my protection (allowing town vig or SK to kill my target) stop poisoner, stop killer, stop SK, stop RB. 5 good targets out of 17 or less every night is real good odds.
Vig who activated when town lost a player to lynch; essentially a failsafe vig who would be perpetually tunneled on voting lists. In a way, weaker than a normal vig, but still strong. If we hadn't janitored redFF n1 we'd probablyhave seen Toad shoot into us because all four of us were on redFF.
Tracker. Having played as one myself I think it's easy to say that this is a really powerful role.
|
On March 13 2012 07:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
Palmar was traitor in Responsibility, not L. FOOL!
Right, my bad.
On March 13 2012 07:59 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 07:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also Toad it doesn't matter that you caught any of us when you singlehandedly were one of the worst players for town.
Saying something like "I don't care that there's third party when they're helping town" is funny in retrospect, but really really dumb.
As town your goal is to kill all nontown, indiscriminately. As the setup is closed you have no idea what you're up against, so you just kill whoeever fits a scum agenda. VE wasn'f playing to his town meta (look at the countercase I built on him d3; 100% of that case, I would repeat as a townie)
Layabout and I tried swinging the town lynch onto VE multiple times.
Ultimately I think we could have approached that differently and potentially gotten him killed for our gain if we opposed the prpl lynch, or bussed RoL. However in terms of self preservation and not knowing 100% at the time it was difficult to make that assessment.
Also something that's funny is that it's really really easy to find third parties as scum. In every scum game I've played that had third party in it, I've caught onto them, with my strongest case often being on them. Ex. MLP tnkted was third party, in L Palmar was traitor, in AC Palmar/Kurumi were third party, and this game with VE.
I guess I should push those reads more strongly in thread and back off the obv town mislynches :p yeah but we were at lylo. How can people even suggest talking about 3rd parties when we desperatly need to kill mafia first. That's the point. I did not care about 3rd parties as long as there were confirmed mafias around and the 3rd party thing was a guess which, if wrong, would have caused us to insta-lose the game. Even if it was right lynching the 3rd party instead of a mafia could have lost us the game at some point.
Except it should've been obvious there was an SK when two people died (IIRC?)
Also, generally the only way most SKs can die is through lynch. Which means, at that stage in the game, you have to lynch the SK because otherwise you can't kill him.
|
How would that have happened, there was only one scum left?
|
Oh nvm you're right, town had lost after n4.
I forgot about that hahaha
|
Yeah you're right, you guys got in a position where no matter what happened you would lose.
Kita you played pretty well; sorry your team sucked. lol.
Also VE I'm jealous, the guy without a team to worry about cruised along all game watching everyone derp hahaha
|
RoL I'd suggest next time you join a game, you actually play it. The only reason I didn't bus you day 1 was because you kept promising to be active, and you were actually on skype. Hell, you were on long enough to argue with the hosts for 2 hours.
Mafia is a teamgame, and your play this game was essentially that of the freeloader in a group project.
|
On March 13 2012 08:27 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 08:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
RoL I'd suggest next time you join a game, you actually play it. The only reason I didn't bus you day 1 was because you kept promising to be active, and you were actually on skype. Hell, you were on long enough to argue with the hosts for 2 hours.
Mafia is a teamgame, and your play this game was essentially that of the freeloader in a group project. yeah, I know you are pissed. Sorry about that, work schedule + school + girlfriend I can't do it. I don't plan on playing another game no matter how tempting until I break up with girlfriend, quit my job, or graduate. Any two of the above and I would have enough time to play. While I would agree that my play was poor and a reason we lost, you should of acknowledged that I had too many people gunning for me by day 2 and 3 that trying to not let me die day 4 was stupid. I spoke to you guys all day 3 about how if this worked you should be bussing me the next day. Instead we got greedy and went for the win when it was extremely unlikely we would get it.
Nah. There's one reason you died instead of Toad that day and it's the fact that you chose to say anything at all.
VE had his vote firmly planted on Toad and it would've resulted in us winning but you decided to start posting in the thread. The stuff you posted was incredibly scummy too (I was reading it and lolling afterwards) and VE switched. Jitsu and Cwave were manipulable as well, but once you essentially claimed scum it was over.
This goes to anyone in that kind of situation: if you've been inactive all game, before trying to defend yourself as scum, talk to your team. Sometimes it's better to just either continue your inactivity or at least pass the posts through your teammates for approval.
Sure, it was a mistake for us not to bus you, but on d4 even if we did bus you it would be impossible to shake suspicion. Our best time to bus was day 2 or day 3.
|
I don't blame BC for not playing, some of the things I read were just...so painful.
Seriously, when people are doing so little work that they aren't reading their own posts, that really sucks the motivation to play right out.
|
it's not even listening to logic at this point. (If you've noticed, I've completely stopped talking about logic)
it's just about reading. People aren't doing the most basic part of the game.
If people were reading, I wouldn't have trolled so hard.
|
and there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.
The person who read the thread most carefully was a person who wasn't even playing.
+ Show Spoiler +actually jk I asked Foolishness to play for me like five times
also GOD that's funny
|
we RBed you because you were completely obvious about having a gun -_-
we never at any point considered your reads a threat outside of you potentially shooting us.
From a mafia perspective that's the only reason I'll ever roleblock someone, and since most players are relatively unpredictable it just means hunting anyone with a gun and RBing them.
I think I understand the balance concerns with having a BP SK. IMO they should be, at best, one shot BP, not completely BP, because in such situations as we had this game, it becomes nearly impossible for scum to kill them. The optimal play for any SK when town is being lynched is to shoot into scum. So, that means we're forced to RB the SK. That's exactly what happened both n1 and n2.
N3 we could've chosen not to RB VE but we made an incorrect assumption about the number and type of blues in the game. We assumed there were around 6, not 9. Thus, when we were relatively safe we assumed there couldn't potentially be 3 KP floating around (ultimately we realized there was 3 KP floating around, IIRC) because we killed syllo, so we assumed the only other vig was one of VE/Toad.
Since roleblocking VE had worked out for us up till that point, there was no reason to switch off.
EDIT: Shameless promotion
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174347¤tpage=79#1563
|
On March 13 2012 11:45 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 11:42 wherebugsgo wrote:
we RBed you because you were completely obvious about having a gun -_-
we never at any point considered your reads a threat outside of you potentially shooting us.
From a mafia perspective that's the only reason I'll ever roleblock someone, and since most players are relatively unpredictable it just means hunting anyone with a gun and RBing them.
I think I understand the balance concerns with having a BP SK. IMO they should be, at best, one shot BP, not completely BP, because in such situations as we had this game, it becomes nearly impossible for scum to kill them. The optimal play for any SK when town is being lynched is to shoot into scum. So, that means we're forced to RB the SK. That's exactly what happened both n1 and n2.
N3 we could've chosen not to RB VE but we made an incorrect assumption about the number and type of blues in the game. We assumed there were around 6, not 9. Thus, when we were relatively safe we assumed there couldn't potentially be 3 KP floating around (ultimately we realized there was 3 KP floating around, IIRC) because we killed syllo, so we assumed the only other vig was one of VE/Toad.
Since roleblocking VE had worked out for us up till that point, there was no reason to switch off. I'M YOUR MOTHERFUCKING HUCKLEBERRY BUGS!
lol wut
|
don't get me wrong, I don't mean that your reads were bad. I mean that there was no chance in hell any townie was going to listen to you, because none of them were reading anything.
When a bunch of townies don't even read their own posts, basically anything can happen.
|
On March 13 2012 11:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
Fair enough - put that way it sounded like you were saying "Psh, VE? Puh-leeze."
I get what you mean though - it sucks but you're probably right.
yeah, I realized that when I reread it lol.
you played really well; the only thing I think you could've done differently is perhaps not announce so boldly that you had a gun.
I guess it worked out because you were bulletproof. Normally when I play I'm wary of that type of stuff, but I guess when you're BP you don't give a fuck.
|
yeah.
also, I wanted to leave Dr. H alive because, if we killed him, we lost an avenue of reason. Oddly enough we were looking for reasonable players. We should've just shot randomly into the town and we would've been closer to winning because of the KP actually hitting. I knew i could reason with Dr. H because he was the only person apart from kita and syllo who was playing with some semblance of logic. VE was to some extent as well, but he was constantly against us, so we would've preferred that he died.
thanks to Palmar for hosting! (but please reduce the number of blues in the future :p )
EDIT: oh and sandro. come play in my next game. hosted...soon.
|
On March 13 2012 12:45 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
Wait, if scum role-blocking stopped VE's shot, but VE killed cwave and end-gamed kita, does that mean cwave didn't roleblock him? He bought the "I'm kinda a vet" being the town role over Kita's claim/overall play? -_______-
yeah.
LOL.
|
|
|
You haven't been around long enough to be able to report, Dirkzor. Iirc you need to be a member for a year.
|
Ye that's actually something I was afraid of when I first got the button. Then I accidentally hit report when on my iPhone and it led me to a confirmation page :p
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
