Currently sitting out Sleeper Cell Mafia 2 but that looks like it's about to rap up.
Look's like it finished, so I'll be good to go.
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Alderan
United States463 Posts
Currently sitting out Sleeper Cell Mafia 2 but that looks like it's about to rap up. Look's like it finished, so I'll be good to go. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Ok so here are just my thoughts as I read through the thread (going to be pretty peacemeal as I catch up): As for my experience, most recently I played in SNMMIV as scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232826 And before that I played a Vanilla towny in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500. I've also read a couple games all the way through I see that next we entered the obligatory Lurker Lynch policy discussion so I will throw in my $.02. We need to approach this in a way where lurkers know they will get lynched if they do not post. Our philosophy should be that someone who is blatantly lurking WILL get lynched unless of these 2 situations happens. 1. Adequate involvement from everyone. I have seen town get so focused on lynching a lurker that when that person becomes active the bandwagon has already started rolling so fast downhill that there's no stopping it. That person ends up being town more often than not. 2. There is an obvious scum slip or we can identify someone almost assuredly as scum. Let's make sure we don't hit a blue in our insistence on lynching someone day 1, if the obvious choice is not there, it's not there. That will be decided much closer to the end of the voting period though. Stay diligent. This poll is comical. I still fail to see the reasoning behind it. While discussion is good, let's not go round and round about that, almost no substantive value to be had. More worrisome than the poll is how quick to the gun ET was. Without formally FoSing, in my opinion you have already semi-accused DoYouHaas, Sloosh, and gumshoe. Do you stand any of these at all? If so which is the most scummy? I don't like it, and by it I mean blasting away with the accuse cannon nonstop. We need to hear from Mannerkiss again definitely. Gumshoe you're absolutely correct about Midnight Gladius's ratio post. What is the easiest way to "contribute" without actually contributing anything thats not common knowledge? Speculate about the setup/discuss the ratios and KP, and inactive lists. Those things are not inherently scummy, but they must be followed up with additional contributions. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Seriously though the purpose of the random ass poll was just to see if the mafia made one big decision or not clarify the real purpose of the poll, i just expected everyone to vote town, than than i would vote mafia and ask which troll said they were mafia but are actually town It was to bait fluffy responses and harsh accusations, which it did,also there was more to the poll if it actually work but that was as I said a shot in the dark So uhh.... what's the purpose of this poll? | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 18 2012 03:03 gumshoe wrote: Show nested quote + On February 18 2012 02:55 Alderan wrote: I know I said I didn't want us to get sucked into this poll nonsense but these are all quotes from gumshoe's filter.... Seriously though the purpose of the random ass poll was just to see if the mafia made one big decision or not clarify the real purpose of the poll, i just expected everyone to vote town, than than i would vote mafia and ask which troll said they were mafia but are actually town It was to bait fluffy responses and harsh accusations, which it did,also there was more to the poll if it actually work but that was as I said a shot in the dark So uhh.... what's the purpose of this poll? All of the above in order, if the vote turned out to be 11/4 i would just remark that the mafia is organized at the beginning of the game and surprisingly honest despite this being an anonymous vote. if the vote turned out to be 14 town I would vote mafia and try to find someone looking for an easy way to prove thier town. if the vote didn't work at all I would just discredit it and wait and see who tried to keep dwelling on it, who would keep talking about how ridicules it was and who would keep saying its a scum post. I had no issue with the poll. What I did have an issue with is that as you gained more and more attention, and were catching more and more heat for the post, your explanation gradually changed to something that you thought we would want to hear. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote: Ok, just woke up and caught on the action. So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1. The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone. Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on. But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation. So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town. What do you guys think? No reason for a no lynch yet big hoss, we've got plenty of time. Ok brahs, now for some case building.... Here's a little fliter you all should check out. DimmuKlok Only three posts so let's investigate. Post #1 + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 15:26 DimmuKlok wrote: Hello everyone, I just finished reading through the thread. I would first like to echo TKHawkins first post about lurking and availability when posting. I've been checking the thread nightly to see if the game had started, and tonight it did. I would not be surprised if the majority of people who haven't posted yet are unaware that the game has started. Now a little bit about myself... This is my first mafia game, and I'm looking forward to it. I really like gumshoe's idea with the report. I'm sure it's already common place, but I recommend everyone make their own private version of it. It's not hard, and it makes it a lot easier to keep track of everyone. I don't have much to contribute yet when it comes to suspicions. It's still too early. - 1st he goes ahead and defends those who had not posted yet, not a huge deal in and of itself but we will see how this is a trend in his postings. - He then goes on to say that we should all have a list of lurkers. That's as scummy as making a list of lurkers but not actually doing the work to update it..... Post #2 + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 18:09 DimmuKlok wrote: Show nested quote + On February 17 2012 17:11 Janaan wrote: 3. Something I'm really concerned about right now is that there seems to be a few players who have posted since the game started, but only in the most fluffy of ways. Specifically, jaj22, DimmuKlok, trackd00r, MannerKiss, and to a lesser extent, Steveling and TKHawkins. I understand if they didn't have the time to do more than just check in at the start of the game, but still, for so many people to just put out one or two fairly useless posts is overall not a good pro-town atmosphere. We HAVE to find some way to get people involved and posting. One player that concerns me right now is MannerKiss. First he gets called out to provide some decent content by DoYouHas, then he posts a single sentence acknowledging DoYouHas's post, but doesn't post any content. I'm getting slightly scummy vibes from his play right now. It's worth looking into as we go forward. Alright, lets take a look. MannerKiss: I think it's unanimous that we would like to hear more from him. His first post was a simple one line introduction, and his second was his one line reply to DoYouHas, which was almost humorous in how suspicious it sounded. Jaj22: He was the one that initially started the conversation about lynching lurkers. I don't agree with his stance. I would rather not have a lynch than lynch a lurker on the first day. I'm not sure if his posts are much to be suspicious over, but worth keeping an eye on. Me: I don't see how someone could read my post and think it didn't have a pro-town atmosphere, but that's your opinion. Trackd00r: I found his first post to be useful and agreed with some of what he said. He never contributed again after that, but it's still pretty early. I don't see the anti-town atmosphere in his post. - First he agrees that the person who voted one time should be suspicious.....How incredibly helpful.... - Then he goes on to say he would rather no lynch than lynch a lurker on the first day. As someone posted above, giving the mafia a free kill and leaving in someone who is adding nothing to the town and only creating more confusion is counter productive.... - Denies how someone could think his all fluff no substance post would be scummy at all..... - Follows up with another fluff analysis of Track, saying nothing, making no stance, providing nothing. Post #3 Show nested quote + On February 18 2012 05:19 DimmuKlok wrote: I've decided to change my stance on lynching lurkers. I was thinking it would be in towns favor to not lynch someone over lynching someone for being inactive, because there's not much to go off of. After reading everyone's response I'm convinced we should be looking for someone to lynch, but I do feel we should try to find a good reason to lynch someone before we target lurkers. I'm must suspicious of MannerKiss right now, like most of you. I'm surprised he threw out that one line response to DoYouHas and then never came back to defend himself. Another suspicion of mine is gumshoe. He's made a lot of posts so far, and most of them being him defending himself for making the poll in the beginning. From a scum perspective, this seems like a good idea. Opening with a useless poll gets your name out there while trying to make it seem like it had a purpose. From then you're able to clutter the thread with discussion over the useless poll, all the while falling back on being a new player as an excuse and some vague reasoning behind it(which might I add has changed several times). Even if gumshoe is not scum, I can't see this as pro-town behavior. - Immediately retracts his old lynching policy. Even saying "After reading everyone's response I'm convinced we should be looking for someone to lynch, but I do feel we should try to find a good reason to lynch someone before we target lurkers." - Announces that he is still suspicious of MannerKiss, in light of all the recent developments..... (that was sarcasm, of course you would still be suspicious.... he still hasn't posted). - Jumps on the latest flavor of the thread, Gumshoe, and makes a vague, semi accusatory statement. That, ladies and gentleman is what you call a lurker.... a real scummy looking lurker..... | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
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Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 18 2012 08:20 jaj22 wrote: This thread is terribly quiet. I kinda miss Gumshoe. Status update time: MannerKiss, Zelblade, TKHawkins and EchelonTee haven't shown up yet today. That's going to make it tough to get a majority lynch if they keep the same hours tomorrow. The first three of those have lurked hardcore so far and really need to post. DimmuKlok hasn't posted since the case against him, which is increasingly scummy behaviour. I'd recommend that he posts some reads (not MannerKiss/Gumshoe: too easy) rather than defending it directly, but posting with substance is essential. Let him respond as he normally would... | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 18 2012 08:20 jaj22 wrote: MannerKiss, Zelblade, TKHawkins and EchelonTee haven't shown up yet today. That's going to make it tough to get a majority lynch if they keep the same hours tomorrow. The first three of those have lurked hardcore so far and really need to post. These guys are really putting us in a tough spot. Can't make reads without posts. Look forward to Steveling and Dimmu's post though. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Echelon Tree - I don't buy this case as it stands. He's active, hes promoting discussion. I have gotten little to no scum tells off of him yet. Doesn't seem like a good target, for today at least. Gumshoe - Sapping up a lot of the towns attention, unnecessarily I think. In my opinion we should definitely be looking at those him pressuring namely, Steve and Midnight. DimmuKlok - His response to my case was horrendous to say the least, even after Jaj slipped and told him exactly how to respond. In my mind there's only one choice here. #Vote: DimmuKlok | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
forgot to bold ##Vote: DimmuKlok | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
DoYouHaas I disagree about Dimmu's response. Seems to me like he checked the thread, saw a post about him, made a VERY lack luster response, and now that there is no more pressure on him and it's apparent he's safe, hes gone away again. You also have to remember that he did all this while providing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the town the entire first day cycle. The only thing that worries me is that he might be too scummy at this point. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 19 2012 07:24 EchelonTee wrote: Dimmuklok responded adequately to Alderan's post, which was similar to mine. DYH and sloosh need more info as far as I'm concerned, so that only leaves: Can someone please explain this sentiment? Am I missing something? To my case he responded: "I'm new, I'm new, I don't understand your case, I'm new." His play after my case: "I'm still on my gumshoe wagon, I don't know what to think about Midnight, I don't know what I think about Hawkin and Manner, and I'm too tired to give an opinion on Steveling" If someone can please point me to the direction of pro town play I would greatly appreciate it. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
I stand by my play though, I think the reads were pretty clearly scum. Reminder: When you are being accused, STAY ACTIVE, the more you give us the more we can find out about you. If you are town and you stay active generally this will be identified. I think everyone needs to focus on the hour running up to the vote. There was a lot of action and activity that probably didn't get %100 attention. I'm to check out the voting records, specifically the correlation between who came off of MG and ET and on what basis. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
He came out of the gates getting in a multi page argument with Sloosh, later to be dropped because he felt that Sloosh was not actually scum, only to end up hardline voting on Sloosh even when the town was in danger of not getting a lynch. Any analysis about that vote though is going to WIFOM, so I say this his play been suspicious but not enough to lynch yet, I'm glad it didn't happen today. I think we definitely should take a closer look though. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 20 2012 02:52 gumshoe wrote: If anyone has any questions ask. Otherwise I'll start making a case for who I DONT think is mafia. I'm not getting on your case, but don't do this. It is of no use to the town to discuss who is not mafia as it will only serve to confuse, and then even if a consensus is reached it gives mafia a blatant target to kill. Work through in your own head about who is town. Pointing out flaws in the arguments of those attacking someone you believe to be town is fine, but lists of town players is generally bad news bears. I've got work today till 7 or 8 EST (weekdays are much better for me than weekends in terms of activity). | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Ok so here's some voting analysis I did about the Day 1 vote. In the last 30 minutes of voting 7 people Switched to Dimmuklok in this order: Trapd00r MidnightGladius Zelblade Jaj22 Sloosh TKHawkins EchelonTree This is a kind of switch that I have never seen before, and what it tells me is that mafia were extremely scared to no lynch or we were previously targeting a scum member. The leader prior to the lynch was EchelonTree who was coincidentally the lynch pin in the voting (pun definitely intended). Situation 1. Fear of no lynch: Mafia feels confident they are not being targeted in the least, and thus starts pushing whomever they feel like they can get votes on to. The only concise and irrefutable case at the time was mine on Dimmuklok so it was a perfect fit. The voting was in dissaray, so much so that MidnightGladius even makes the comment that the only people that are going to be able to be lynched are him and EchelonTree, so we need to decide something. Then Trapd00r leads off with the "Oh hey, Alderan's case was pretty good, lets take it into consideration now". 20 minutes later, we have a misslynch. Situation 2. EchelonTree is scum This situation hinges around the idea that ET was leading the voting prior to the end of the day, and managed a 20 minute shift of votes to, for better or worse, let him live another day. The idea is this then (this one get's a little WIFOMy but bear with me, it's logical), mafia are scrambling, looking for any case they can get a bandwagon on, identify mine, and jump on it using the town's fear of a no lynch as leverage to save their own and lynch a towny. Those not voting for ET that switched to Dimmuklok- - Sloosh - Zelblade - EchelonTree Note about Situation 2: Trapd00r seems more town in this situation than in Situation 1 as he had a vote cast on ET and was one of the major ET critics. Can't rule him out completely, but definitely if Situation 2 is correct he is leaning town. Well which do you think, Alderan? Well, I think situation 1 is the most logical in that everyone pretty much knew at the time of the vote that there going to be a no lynch unless a drastic change was made, so scum supporting ET would not have created a huge movement off of him, because that can only raise suspicions. This is WIFOM of course, which is why I listed both options instead of just Scenario 1. My next post will be analysis of Trapd00r, which should give us a nudge in the right direction about which of these cases happened. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 21 2012 01:27 Mattchew wrote: Show nested quote + On February 19 2012 08:08 GreYMisT wrote: I forgot we had ZBot and did a votecount, yay. Gumshoe (2): DimmuKlok, Steveling MidnightGladius (3): EchelonTee, jaj22, Mattchew DimmuKlok (2): Gumshoe, Alderan EchelonTee (5): Zelblade, trackd00r, blae000, MidnightGladius, TKHawkins SlOosh (1): DoYouHas DoYouHas (1): slOosh With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch! the day ends in less than 1 hour! does anyone else find it really fucking weird that we went from 5 on ET to lynching DK in less than an hour? See above big hoss. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 20 2012 06:03 MidnightGladius wrote: My next case will be on Alderan: Alderan's behavior strikes me as strange for a few broad reasons, and there are some details that also don't fit. He is the first to nominate DimmuKlok as our lurker candidate of choice, but the fact that he actually went ahead and made a "case" - a point-by-point analysis of only three posts - is completely superfluous. PBPA is never helpful, as Alderan should know, considering that he's had two games of playing experience and has read through several others. He soft-defends gumshoe, claiming that his play is too elaborate to be scum, and that the town's attention on him is "unnecessary." In addition, he says to look at those pressuring gumshoe (Steve and I), but he never follows through on that. Then, after the lynch, he says that he's going to be doing vote analysis, which sounds like a great idea, but then that also never materializes. He has since provided a null read on DYH and nothing else. In its totality, Alderan's posts are lacking in what I consider to be actual contributions to the town, and the way he pushed DimmuKlok seemed much too emphatic compared to the rest of his reads he's made so far. He hasn't followed up on several of his claims, and has instead provided several bits of fluff, like "stay active when accused." Now would be a good time to take your own advice. Took me a while to find this, but I'll address it quickly. - I disagree that PBPA is never helpful.... I think if it's 20 posts then yes it's nearly impossible to deal with, but the kid had three posts. I did PBPA to draw attention to that fact. - I don't think gumshoe is scum. I will stand by this. - Vote analysis was late, like I said weekends are no good for me generally. - You should not be posting everything you discover when town. There are obvious reasons for this. I give one away in a post a while back. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
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Alderan
United States463 Posts
"... scum are utilizing the town's 'OH SHIT WE BETTER GET A LYNCH'" | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 21 2012 05:19 MidnightGladius wrote: Alderan, your analysis isn't paired with any actual conclusions, and I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that town players shouldn't be inclined to share their cases and suspicions. Are you still getting town reads from DYH? You certainly don't seem intent on providing a defense. Your last sentence implies that your current scum read is trackdoor, but could you confirm that that is indeed the case? Mattchew, those switches came in the context of an impending deadline, when I didn't know how many people were active, and the consensus formed quickly of pure necessity. The way I play, and the way I think the rest of the town should play, is you only defend those that you think are town if they are getting lynched. You will never see me make a large post about why someone is town. Ever. It's bad play and only helps mafia. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 21 2012 05:01 Mattchew wrote: ps you fucked up cause zel was voting for ET and switched Wrong. Zelblade was voting for ET and then switched to DoYouHas. He switched from DoYouHas to DimmuKluk in the last 30 minutes of voting. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 21 2012 05:34 MidnightGladius wrote: Show nested quote + On February 21 2012 05:27 Alderan wrote: On February 21 2012 05:19 MidnightGladius wrote: Alderan, your analysis isn't paired with any actual conclusions, and I have to respectfully disagree with the idea that town players shouldn't be inclined to share their cases and suspicions. Are you still getting town reads from DYH? You certainly don't seem intent on providing a defense. Your last sentence implies that your current scum read is trackdoor, but could you confirm that that is indeed the case? Mattchew, those switches came in the context of an impending deadline, when I didn't know how many people were active, and the consensus formed quickly of pure necessity. The way I play, and the way I think the rest of the town should play, is you only defend those that you think are town if they are getting lynched. You will never see me make a large post about why someone is town. Ever. It's bad play and only helps mafia. Whoops, I thought that you had posted a town-read on DYH earlier. In that case, why aren't you voicing any opinions on him? Also, stop avoiding the actual question. In your opinion, who should we lynch today? Trackdoor? Settle down there, I was responding to the idea that the town should divulge all information they have. That's really bad for town and I wanted to reiterate that. As for where I'm leaning currently, I don't buy the DoYouHas case. If you start analysis from the when DoYouHas ended the fight with Sloosh on the first day, all I see is Sloosh hardline tunneling and/or a horrendous case of confirmation bias. The only suspicious play I read from DoYouHas was after that initial drop in the fight with Sloosh he actually returned and voted for him. Sloosh I find far more suspicious. He has tunneled harder than anyone in this thread, while attempting to squash any other discussion (discussion about me included). A quote like this is the most damning. On February 20 2012 14:05 slOosh wrote: Sounds good. My read on you was based upon you thinking DYH as town. As you state that you don't, I drop my suspicion. My point about him making a case is that he will actually try making a proper case. Notice he FOSed you, not voted. He has drawn such a distinct line in the sand that anyone who feels DYH is town must be scum. That flies in the face of optimal town play, so much so that I would say he is my number one suspicion at the moment. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 21 2012 06:02 EchelonTee wrote: Few notes: What is a case based off of confirmation bias? Alderan, zelblade was still voting for me at some point, you're picking at technicalities if you're saying zel did not vote swap from me; your point in that section was that Mafia would have been less likely to be voting me if i'm scum, so you lightly discredited him based off misrepresented information. You also fail to acknowledge your role in the Dimmuklok lynch, while I directly pointed out my own role. I find that weird. Also weird is that you state "I'll only argue someone I think is town if they getting lynched", when MG was directly adding about DYH, who our being lynched. Obviously you posted your opinion later, but your response is largely "I think sloosh is wrong", not "I think DYH is town". Don't like your posting one bit. Still from phone, still at school. - Confirmation bias in the sense I'm referring is that Sloosh is so infatuated with lynching DYH that he makes posts like this: On February 20 2012 12:02 slOosh wrote: Show nested quote + On February 20 2012 11:32 DoYouHas wrote: My town reads are: trackd00r, ET, gumshoe, slOosh, and blae000. This leaves a pool of 8 people in which I think all mafia are present. That is where I am looking now, and that is who I am building cases on. WOW. Lynch him NOW. 15 players to start. 1 lynched, 1 shot. That leaves 13 players. He posts 5 town reads, and concludes all mafia in the remaining 8 people, of which he is one. Don't even wait for his case. Lynch him. Because he has become fixated on DYH simple semantic errors are leading him to come to some pretty rash conclusions. - My voting analysis was only on the 30 minutes up to the Night Post because frankly that's where the important switch started. Because of this I failed to notice Zelblade was voting for you prior to voting for DoYouHas. I also don't think that it is necessarily relevant, as I stated before, this was analysis from the point everyone realized it might be a no-lynch (at which point Zelblade was on DoYouHas) and the Night Post. " your point in that section was that Mafia would have been less likely to be voting me if i'm scum." This is WIFOM. Mafia would have no problem voting for another scum if he wasn't in any danger. In fact, Zelblade getting off you just before things started getting hairy might be even more telling. - I firmly believe that it is much more effective to find flaws in arguments than make "Why x perosn is Town" posts. Period. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
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Alderan
United States463 Posts
I took your advice and here's all the pro-discussion posts I found: What we need right now is focus. Work with the current cases unless you have something really compelling to share. Your stance on DYH and MG? MidnightGladius: What do you think of DoYouHas? And THEN you realize DYH is gonna be lynched so you say this: It is in our best interest to now redirect our focus on finding new scum candidates, rather than taking a break until he gets lynched. Time is valuable and I do not want people to become lax. Saying that you are not hard lining DYH is asinine, you absolutely are. You just think there no more reason to pursue him as your goal is already complete. But this is the one I ESPECIALLY LOVE Whether DYH flips red or green should not direct us to our next lynch target. Mafia know each other and can manipulate their connections, knowing that they might be linked. This is the equivalent of saying, "Guys, guys, check it out, we totally shouldn't look at who started the train on DYH if he flips green, I'm sure it doesn't mean anything..... Let's be real though, all this "pro-town" discussion didn't get in the way of you throwing out gems like this: WOW. Lynch him NOW.... Don't even wait for his case. Lynch him. TOWN ARE YOU TRYING TO GO FOR NO LYNCH AGAIN??? Sounds good. My read on you was based upon you thinking DYH as town. As you state that you don't, I drop my suspicion. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Mattchew's Case: Obviously fits with my line of thinking in my vote analysis very well. I disagree with him about all 4 of the candidates, but I'm fairly certain about Trackd00r and TKHawkins. Midnight and Zelblade are less suspicious for very different reasons but I'm certainly not counting them out. The DoYouHas Lynch: I obviously stated I don't like it, and in all honesty I think it's the product of the most hard line tunneling I have ever seen in a mafia game. I don't think he has to die, I mean just look at the last post. It is filled with pro-town sentiments. There is one part I disagree with however. Sloosh's Silliness: The part I don't agree with DoYouHas about is his feelings (if i interpreted this correctly, feel free to clear this up) that Sloosh is town. Now I had been leaning that way up until yesterday and then things began to change. Here's why: Let's make a list of who Sloosh has cast suspicion on this game. EchelonTee- Only for a second DoYouHas MidnightGladius Alderan Mattchew Now let's take a look at the context of the thread at the time of the cast suspicion with all his suspects after DoYouHas. MidnightGladius- "You're looking really scummy to me right now MG. Unless you provide good reasoning why you think DYH is town, it is absolutely incriminating that you would bring up a new lynch suspect "who apparently isn't even on anyone else's radar"." That's it. That's his case. That's what made MG suspicious. There is a back and forth between the two of them which kind of dies out because MG eventually "sees the light" and joins the bandwagon. Alderan- I begin by noting how suspicious it is Sloosh is tunneling so hard, and how I don't like the DYH lynch. After this sentiment I am immediately Scum #1 to Sloosh. Mattchew- Mattchew's case is the most startling because he actually didn't say anything against Sloosh at all, he just suggested we vote for someone other than DoYouHas and then boom.... he is Scum #2. My Response to Sloosh's Case - You accuse me of treating my vote like trash. I'm holding my vote so I can make the right decision. With the current train on DYH, I'm pretty sure putting my vote on anyone is going to be like throwing it in the garbage anyway, - I am commenting on YOUR PLAY now, this is no longer about me disagreeing with your arguments on DYH, it is your actions since that point. I had not originally thought you were scum, I just thought you were playing poorly, I was hoping that pointing it out would bring you back into reality with the rest of us, it didn't, but what it did provide was some interesting evidence on how you cast suspicion. - Everyone is accountable for when they misslynch, as was I when I wrongly accused Dimmukluk. That being said I didn't come out prior to the lynch and say "Hey....uh... so if I'm wrong let's just continue on like normal....." Where I stand at this moment: My scumlist is as follows: TKHawkins- For reasons pretty well articulated by some, and his lack of addressing these issues. Sloosh- I feel like I've pretty well articulated this by now. I want to remind everyone that this read is not based off of his initial fight or case against DYH it is about how he has chosen his targets since then and the arguments he has provided. Trackd00r- Will post analysis in the next couple of hours, I'm afraid to clog up the thread prior to the vote though. So it might be at night or the beginning of day 3. I'm not really sure where I stand on a fourth scum, I have suspicions but like I said, we need to keep discussion on the task at hand in the hours leading up to this lynch. So my vote will be on TKHawkins as he is the best chance of getting lynched today. ##vote: TKHawkins | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 22 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote: hey gumshoe... remember that time i told you to take your vote off DYH? any regrets listening to your great leader sloosh? Just have to move on now to the case at hand...... As much as I would like to, saying "I told you so" it provides us with nothing. Hopefully the people drinking Sloosh's koolaid will now come to realize there are better cases. We need a scum lynch tomorrow in a bad way. Let's try to think impartially this time guys. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Morning drunk from mardi gras... Peace. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
As for who we lynch today, I don't think we could feel good about lynching RG, he is going to have to be a target after we successfully hit scum today. My scum list is still the exact: Trackd00r TKHawkins Sloosh I'm happy to lynch any of these three. With Trackd00r and TK being the top two choices. Let's look at Trackd00r's only post since last nigh's debacle.... + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2012 11:04 trackd00r wrote: Oh God... What a nightmare... I'm not in the best shape to discuss, but this is what is going to happen. We are 4/6 mafia/town right now. There are two possible ways for the mafia to win this game right now. 1) Rushing and hoping to kill a townie at night 3. When they see a no-way-back target to lynch, they will jump to it and just wait for the kill. They'll try to keep all their effort to secure the mis lynch by leaving the target unable to defend himself back, such as ignoring any alternative candidates or keeping the focus closed. If they choose this way to end, surely they will be very active for a while, and suddenly escape out of the radar when they accomplished their goal. 2) Waiting an(-) extra day(s). Why do they do that you would ask? Mafia can't easily pull off their votes to a single target when there are multiple cases. The sudden jump on one of them will draw a notorious amount of suspicion by us and leave them exposed. So, they'll try to extend their voting range to many suspects with the following goals: a) Not providing a proper direction to lynches. b) Causing a no-lynch in order to disorganize us even more. c) Leaving them with a cleaner background when switching votes the following days. With this plan, they will probably be depending of night kills, so the medic in this case is crucial. 3) Sacrificing one of their members this night. It will give them credibility to push their agendas to secure a mislynch the next day, granted they made a successful kill the night before. I think that this possibility is the less probable to happen. I feel that we need to watch out for every dangerous behavior present here that we can be facing. In (1) is constant pressure by them trying to get a lynch. In (2), it would be undecided voters and unclear opinions. (3) would be simply trying to find scumslips and contradictions. Well, those are my thoughts right now. Comments? Oh wait. I forgot how many of you are convinced that I'm mafia, so I'm not expecting a good feedback from all this. sigh. Sure it's all WIFOM, but let's look past that.... There's nothing about these hypothetical situations that are relevant to us in my eyes. The task is on us. We have to identify one of the 4 scum, and put 5 of our votes on them, which will force the scum to vote for their own or be readily identified. No use making it more confusing than it is, in a time that is already going to be exceedingly hectic for us. Now for TKHawkins actions since the night post... Oh yeah, he already "quit". All this inactivity, is in my mind, proof we have found two of them at least. Let's lynch one of them and get back on the right track... TK and Track, we need you to come back and be active, if you are town we can clear you, but that's only if you give us a reason to do so. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 24 2012 03:45 EchelonTee wrote: All the players in the game currently are pushing towards "lynch TKHawkins and trackd00r. not TK i guess since he might be modkilled but definitely trackd00r. and don't worry that nearly everyone wants trackd00r dead, Mafia is probably busing". Because that worked so well concerning the DYH lynch huh. I feel that trackd00r is the wrong play. This is what worries me, its seems almost too easy... I feel everyone can agree that TK and Track are the scummiest in the game right now, but the thought of it being just bad town play still lingers. We really need them to come and be active. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 24 2012 06:45 EchelonTee wrote: LMAO, I'm way more aggresive this game than last. I don't post setup posts when I'm scum to specifically avoid them. I don't use WIFOM when I'm scum to avoid them. When I'm scum, I actually play a MORE CAREFUL game. I find it hilarious that you're using out of thread stuff to try and prove things, fully contradictory to your meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta meta nonsense. The difference is that when I buddied to prplhz, I specifically avoided making any comment on his alignment until he was a confirmed townie. Not only is sloosh not a confirmed townie, but me and him had a BACK AND FORTH early game that made people think I was scum. Why the hell would I do that as scum? You're definitely scum now Mattchew. Thanks for clearing that up for me, and grats for not voting me even though ur making a huge accusation. ##Unvote: Steveling ##Vote: Mattchew Oh look, we found the 4th scum. How convenient. Also someone said this before me but I need to reiterate. There is NO WAY that TK is gonna get modkilled, he'll post eventually. He successfully got all the attention off of himself but that cannot stand. ##Vote: TKHawkins | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
##Vote: TKHawkins | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Sure Mattchew's posts are abrasive, but definitely not scummy. Apparently neither of you can distinguish between the two (see DYH). I can not fathom how you would vote for a case like that over someone like TK who has all but admitted to being scum..... | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 24 2012 13:28 slOosh wrote: My response to Alderaan: Show nested quote + On February 24 2012 09:41 Alderan wrote: This Mattchew bandwagon is cute and all, but quite frankly ET and Sloosh haven't you done enough OMGUS tunnel tunnel town lynches?DYH is the most obvious example, but you both had made cases against MG (which in my mind is why Janaan shot him). Townies don't try reasoning with their top scum reads to stop trying to make bandwagons. Case closed on Alderaan. TK and Track are my top scum reads. In my mind after that it's either you and ET or Mattchew and Zelblade. God forbid I don't "go on my gut" and take a second to actually think about the person that I am voting for. Voting for anyone other than TK right now is a huge mistake in my eyes... | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Gumshoe do you not agree? | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 25 2012 03:58 rgTheSchworz wrote: TK is a nonfactor now, you know why? If he is town, he´s getting modkilled. Big deal.5-4 from 6-4 with a lurker. Not much difference. In fact: If TK does vote today, he´s scum. It would be better for him to get modkilled as town. Why? Because his vote, if he is wrong, can help scum tie for votes. Which is terribad. I would advise him not to show up, else I vote him. He's scum. It's MYLO. Let's hit the known scum. I fail to see how this doesn't make the most sense. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 25 2012 04:04 Mattchew wrote: basically what im saying in my last post.. is townies, look how much you've thought about this upcoming lynch and have tried to not rush to a decision... does Sloosh's gut read steveling and knee-jerk me vote and ET's no case and kneejerk votes send this same vibe to you... no. They are willing to lynch any townie and just take the win for the scum team You still believe TK is definitely scum correct? Then why aren't we lynching him? | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
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Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 25 2012 04:11 rgTheSchworz wrote: TK may be bad town.If he votes, he´s scum due to what I´ve written. WHY WASTE A LYNCH ON KNOWN SCUM WHEN THEY CAN GET MODKILLED. Alderan-Next day lynch.I count this as a - to your town points. WE DON'T KNOW HE'S GETTING MODKILLED. If he makes one vote, and ET and Sloosh's bus on Mattchew goes through the game is over. Do you realize this? | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
I feel the best option for us is the play that ensures the game is not over tonight. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
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Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 25 2012 05:50 slOosh wrote: Show nested quote + On February 25 2012 05:41 gumshoe wrote: Matt if you are really town please back me up, ech sloosh, I would like to have you guys around when the pressure isnt so high so that you can properly defend yourselves, even if you are scum you deserve that at least, please help me out here, hawk is our best choice purely because if he's town theres nothing we can do to win this game anyways and if hes scum theres no guarantee hell just die. Furthermore I do not want to rely on some bullshit host buff, we maybe noobs but we can win this game fairly or we can lose fairly. We won't be around because as soon as we mislynch tonight game over Scum win. Or you could just vote TK.... | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 25 2012 05:48 slOosh wrote: How can you guys even consider a possibility that both ET and I are scum? Mafia need one mislynch to seal the deal. Think about it: We were the ones originally strongly opposed to the TKHawkins and trackd00r lynch. If we were both scum and one of them town, it would have been done deal to lynch them as there support from Mattchew, Steveling, Alderan, gumshoe and zelblade. If we were all scum, then it could be seen trying to save our buddies. But then you have to be ready to accept that out of all the cases we could have pushed, we pushed Mattchew. Show nested quote + On February 25 2012 04:04 Mattchew wrote: basically what im saying in my last post.. is townies, look how much you've thought about this upcoming lynch and have tried to not rush to a decision... does Sloosh's gut read steveling and knee-jerk me vote and ET's no case and kneejerk votes send this same vibe to you... no. They are willing to lynch any townie and just take the win for the scum team There is absolutely no reason why scum team requiring one last mislynch would choose one of the least suspected people. Very very relevant..... | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 25 2012 05:57 slOosh wrote: Gumshoe, maybe you missed what I thought about TKHawk. Here it is. Show nested quote + On February 23 2012 13:47 slOosh wrote: @gumshoe: On February 22 2012 05:06 gumshoe wrote: Tell me how Hawk wasn't the reason a townie died. Tell me why he is actively trying to seem so hostile to the point that we will never listen to him. Tell me how his tunnel on Janaan is useful. Tell me how he's so sure that I am town. But most of all please tell me a story about why this man is not mafia. So that I can tell you a story about why you are. Read over your case, and I don't like it. You are going in with the assumption that he is mafia and interpreting everything according to that. Hawk wasn't the reason that DimmuKlok was lynched. We all wanted to avoid a no-lynch. Sure he fumbled with the votes, but its a newbie game. He came from scII land and he genuinely might not know how to vote, seeing as its his first time. Your perceived hostility of him is actually his response to Mattchew's antagonistic style. I know how mad I can get when people treat my posts condescendingly and calls them "retarded". Now, this is my second game playing, and I understand that there is an element of role playing. I can see him genuinely hurt from Matt's verbal assault - he doesn't have that tought exterior we develop playing mafia. His FOS on Janaan was wrong, but that doesn't make him scum. The reasoning he provides for suspecting Janaan is understandable. He is clear. You might not like his logic but it isn't contradictory. Furthermore, you shouldn't be listening to Alderan. Read over his filter and you can see him assume that TKHawk is 100% scum without offering any new evidence why except from one small post back in day 2. Notice the discrepancy between you and him. You have clearly thought this out and posted your thinking and asked for responses. He hasn't helped anyone reach a conclusion with reasoning, but instead just focuses on getting votes for TK. I don't need to post a dissertation on TK to know he has scum. He basically came out and said it when he "quit" the game. And then there's the only blatant scumslip I've seen in the entire game: On February 19 2012 09:01 TKHawkins wrote: *Panting*... ok, god. Going to go eat. Someone's already said why this is relevant, I shouldn't have to spell it out for you. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 22 2012 12:08 TKHawkins wrote: Show nested quote + On February 22 2012 11:51 Mattchew wrote: to all of my accused.. (hawk track MG zel) I want each of you to post in detail what you all think of 1 another I will never rule out I could be wrong (I don't think I am right now) but this will help any of you that could by some slight chance be town survive I have absolutely no interest in playing a game with you in it, nor deal with your trollish BS for another week. I have already PMed the mods about getting a replacement to take me out. This is my first, and last game of mafia on these forums. I'm not sure if you were literally asking for when he quit, but here it is. The reason I understand the mentality is because I've been there, I quit under very similar circumstances when I was scum and got modkilled. He felt like the bus was on him and there was no taking it off, because he's not town there was literally no reason for him to stay in the game in any capacity. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 25 2012 06:20 slOosh wrote: Show nested quote + On February 25 2012 06:17 Alderan wrote: On February 22 2012 12:08 TKHawkins wrote: On February 22 2012 11:51 Mattchew wrote: to all of my accused.. (hawk track MG zel) I want each of you to post in detail what you all think of 1 another I will never rule out I could be wrong (I don't think I am right now) but this will help any of you that could by some slight chance be town survive I have absolutely no interest in playing a game with you in it, nor deal with your trollish BS for another week. I have already PMed the mods about getting a replacement to take me out. This is my first, and last game of mafia on these forums. I'm not sure if you were literally asking for when he quit, but here it is. The reason I understand the mentality is because I've been there, I quit under very similar circumstances when I was scum and got modkilled. He felt like the bus was on him and there was no taking it off, because he's not town there was literally no reason for him to stay in the game in any capacity. He quit but that doesn't make him scum. I'm asking you to show me how his act of quitting indicates that he is scum. I made it reasonably clear. It's not a hard concept. But because you are his scum mate this case is not for you, its for others. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
##Vote: EchelonTee | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Sloosh, ET, TK, Zel | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
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Alderan
United States463 Posts
Sorry for being a dick to the people I was a dick to (namely Sloosh). If anyone has any critiques I'd love to here them, always looking to get better. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 25 2012 09:27 gumshoe wrote: Show nested quote + On February 25 2012 09:21 Alderan wrote: Haha fun game. Sorry for being a dick to the people I was a dick to (namely Sloosh). If anyone has any critiques I'd love to here them, always looking to get better. Did you really have to make that comment on how I was the only one making sense? Did you really have to enjoy the fact that no one was listening to me that much Haha I just couldn't believe you guys didn't insta-lynch TK, and then finally you came out and said it. | ||
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Side note, I never wanted dimmuklok to get lynched, and I was kind of disappointed 2 scum helped it happen, I wanted to be able to ride that train another full day, which looking back would have been a mistake. | ||
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