EPTHammer Mini Mafia
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On January 17 2012 06:22 Palmar wrote: I find his images a much greater contribution to the thread than the standard VE post. Oi, when not in a game you can't use the excuse of "Hey, it was in a game don't take it seriously" as to why you're a fucking asshole. /out Fuck this. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
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VisceraEyes
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 RoL, I am disappoint. I would expect you of all people to be all "Bitch please, it's in the OP. Don't like it? Don't sign up!" lol | ||
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VisceraEyes
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VisceraEyes
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VisceraEyes
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>amused berating of puerile shenanigans here< | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On January 26 2012 01:31 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I missed risk.nukes /in on the previous page. Sorry. I am/was waiting for Zbot to be ready, but it's not fair to make you guys keep waiting so I will go without it if its not ready by tomorrow night. There are two reasons why I want Zbot, it makes my job a lot easier and ensures accuracy instead of me shitting all over some excel spreadsheet updating vote changes, etc. I'm not opposed to waiting RoL - the voting mechanic seems complex and I prefer guaranteed accuracy to immediate action...but that's just me. Just FYI | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On January 26 2012 02:52 prplhz wrote: I think it is bad practice to rely so much on something over which you have so little control. What if 15 people had signed up for the game the day you posted it? What if the bot encounters unforeseen circumstances, and Zona/Incognito/whoevermadeitIhaven'taclue isn't around to fix it? In my experience, bots can make games easier and more enjoyable, for hosts and players alike. I still think it is bad practice to rely so much on something over which you have so little control. ZBot has only been a thing for...what, 4 or 5 games? I don't think people are so much relying on it as they are trying to take advantage of it now that it's available. And as you said - it has the possibility to make games easier and more enjoyable for everyone. So why not use it if it's available? Don't hide behind an opinion on the bot prpl...you just want to play. Don't front. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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On January 26 2012 08:00 layabout wrote: I can't find a win condition in the OP It's because in the end, we're all winners. Right guys? Right? | ||
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VisceraEyes
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VisceraEyes
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On January 27 2012 02:55 Palmar wrote: your plan is terrible paperscraps. It's so scummy you're probably town. Why is Paper's plan so scummy dude? If we all circle-jerk the votes, then we can see without a doubt whether or not the scums have vote-manipulation powers and ideally how they work. What makes Paper scummy for suggesting a system under which we'll be able to glean information regarding the setup? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
All right, I've heard enough. ##Vote: Palmar I mean, I get not wanting to "waste time" and "clutter the thread" but I feel like Palmar is avoiding answering simple questions about his mindset and calling anyone who questions him scum. Very scummy. VERY scummy. Palmar gets my vote. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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VisceraEyes
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On January 27 2012 04:07 Palmar wrote: That's actually not scummy. But you already know that don't you? I know that the action itself isn't scummy, but that you expect us all to go along with it so early IS scummy Palmar. I realize that if you're town, then you're the only one who you can trust and would therefor want to decide the lynch yourself - the reason I think you're scum is because you expect town to just listen to you without explaining any of your motivations. Prove me wrong bro. I'm not beyond reason - but the way you're approaching this game so far has been sketchy as hell. My vote stands. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On January 27 2012 05:11 layabout wrote: Stop bickering and lets come to an agreement about the plans that are floating around I've already stated - I'm for a plan that revolves one of our votes to a predictable person at night. I'm not bickering - I'm stating my intent to lynch. We do have to lynch today, whether we decide unanimously on a plan to follow or not. Who do you want to lynch layabout, and why? | ||
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VisceraEyes
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On January 27 2012 05:35 layabout wrote: @ViceraEyes nobody yet. Voting for Palmar now is dumb though, and i don't like that you have done that. The thing is, i think the plan is good but there are drawbacks and we have not fully addressed them. After a few miss-lynches the scum could exploit the "circle vote trading" and win, so if we agree to follow the strategy then we should likely decide how long we shall do it for. At the same time it seems likely that there will be roles that can significantly affect the game and so it may be best to agree on the best plan for now and then adapt it as the game grows older and we gain more information. + Show Spoiler [likely there will be power roles?] + since all of the mechanics we are aware of seem pro-scum it seems probable that there will be pro-town mechanics that we are not aware of. I think we should consider something else: A player that trades votes to a player that gets killed will have their vote refunded. This will mean that for the next night they will have an extra vote to trade or they will keep an extra vote. If there are extra votes we need to consider what players who get them should do with them because the Mafia will essentially have the power to decide who gets the extra vote(s). I support the everyone trades 1 vote to the person below plan. This is actually something I hadn't even considered. However, we can't "decide" what to do about it now because scum would be likely to exploit it somehow if we decide to do the vote-rotation. Actually, with this in mind it seems more like a scum-favored decision to rotate the votes predictably. ##Unvote: Palmar Suddenly the thought of just giving our vote to the most town-seeming individual has merit. I'm just gonna shut up then. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On January 27 2012 05:43 Jackal58 wrote: You have an individual named Palmar that has clearly stated he's above plans. So if we don't have everybody on board what good is the plan? Do we just skip him and let him do what he wants? Thing is this is the arrogant townie Palmar I'm used to seeing. So I have no desire to lynch him. So what plan do we devise that allows us to ignore the cowboy from Iceland. Perhaps just "ignore the cowboy from Iceland" as a plan? Simplicity in form, effective in design. I kid, I kid. Jackal, are you adverse to discussing the lynch before we hear from everyone? Who are your top 2 candidates right now? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On January 27 2012 06:05 risk.nuke wrote: I'm back. I'll do exacly as palmar. I'll give my ONE obligatory vote to the person I think is town the most. The vote system seems to me like a very pro-town mechanic. Having a vote circle completly nullfies that. Conclusion: Votecircles are dumb FoS: VE, did you seriously just attempt to lynch palmar day 1. Yes, because lynching someone I think is scum is scummy. Pull the other one risk. Names don't move me. If he's playing like scum I'm going to vote for his lynch. I removed my vote because the idea of giving his one vote to someone pro-town actually makes more sense than the vote-circle idea, but I think he honestly thinks people should just give them their votes, and I think that's asinine and senseless this early, and it's scummy as sin to me. Care to tell me why wanting to lynch scum is scummy? | ||
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VisceraEyes
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On January 27 2012 06:49 risk.nuke wrote: Maybe you only thought about it for ten seconds or I wasn't clear enough. I will not tolerate vote-circles. Votes are a pressure-mechanic. Everyone gives votes to who we think are town. Mafia can't lurk which is reason enough not to have any dumb vote circles. But also we get more information on eachother. We can see who gives votes to who, track it and look for suspicious patterns. This will force the mafia to act like they play pro-town or suffer loss of votepower since it would be pretty damn obvious if 4 players are trading are always giving votes to eachother they will be forced to give their votes to townies and try and aqquire votes from townies. The very good thing about having a system where everyone can send votes to whoever they want is we can judge people by who they give their vote to. Maybe you didn't think about it, or maybe I wasn't clear enough, but you never answered my question risk. If I think that Palmar is scum, perhaps you can enlighten me on why putting my vote on him is scummy? Your random FoS on me is meaningless without the answer to this question, so I'd appreciate an answer. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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On January 27 2012 07:07 risk.nuke wrote: I think it's proposterous that you would legitimatly think palmar is scum based on that. Then I thought it's very suspicious that a townie would try to get the best scumhunter in the game lynched asap. So you're under the assumption that Palmar auto-rolls town every game because he's a good scumhunter - is that what you're suggesting? Because nothing you've just said makes any sense unless you're assuming that Palmar just can't be scum this game. Anyways, this argument can wait because obviously I'm not voting for Palmar anymore and you're not voting for me. Can I assume that given the opportunity and means, you'd lynch me today? | ||
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VisceraEyes
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On January 27 2012 08:11 wherebugsgo wrote: Yeah, I fully approve of them. I'm going to give Palmar some time to shape up, but if he doesn't agree with this (if he's town he should, it's completely logical) then he should probably die. Anyone who opposes the vote circle plan: please provide reasoning as to why it's bad. WBG, I'm iffy on the vote-circle, and here's why: we can't know who the extra votes are going to. Scum are going to kill someone, and whoever tried to give that person a vote is going to have an extra vote. Will scum design the kill to give themselves extra VP? We can't know the answer, and we won't know even if we lynch the receiver. That's the fundamental flaw in the plan: it provides the most opportunity for everyone to have the same number of votes, but it ensures that someone is going to have more than everyone else and we have no idea if we can trust that person or not. At least by giving a vote to someone who appears pro-town in-thread, we can keep who gets the extra votes within our power. RE: Palmar - Palmar's agenda right now is accruing votes from sheep - he's not going to approve of this plan regardless of his alignment unless he's trolling us. The question becomes: would scumPalmar put stick his neck out like this, bucking the only semblance of a nearly universally accepted plan just to try and gain some VP for the next cycle? I think he would, because he's likely to succeed regardless of his alignment. But town may disagree. I'm willing to kill Palmar today if he doesn't shape up, but I'm also willing to give him until tomorrow. Right now he's one of only two scum reads I have. I'll echo you and say that we need more activity. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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At any rate, risk.nuke is at least taking a stance on one side of the issue, which is something even I have yet to do...so I don't feel comfortable voting for him just yet. In general, I'd say that his chainsaw defense of Palmar is more damning than his BM - which actually makes me LESS suspicious of Palmar on the whole. The more it's discussed, the more it makes sense to just come up with a system of vote-trading that lets us all have the same number of votes. That way, everyone is still accountable for the direction of the game, and we can see any scummy attempts to sway the flow of votes. VE - For Transparent Trading Through Circle-Jerk | ||
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VisceraEyes
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Now, the lynch. ##Vote: Paperscraps On January 27 2012 13:02 Paperscraps wrote: @Palmar When you get done with your whole "I'm a badass" routine, can we hear some reasoning behind why you are against the circle trade system? or anything that is actually constructive at all? + Show Spoiler + I understand you are being crazy right now to tests people reactions and stir up a bit of commotion. This set off alarm bells. My main problem is that he doesn't sound like someone with a town read on Palmar. He sounds like someone who already knows Palmar's alignment is town. I'm going to be honest - I'm also starting to think Palmar is town, but it's not based on a belief that I think he's acting scummy to test reactions. It could be, but that's not why. I think Palmar is town based almost exclusively on the fact that scummy players like Paperscraps are defending the way he's playing. On January 27 2012 13:02 Paperscraps wrote: @Everyone I have another idea for trading votes. I want to bounce it off you guys to see what you think. The main idea behind the circle trading system is to keep an even spread of votes across all players. They way we have it setup, the mafia will get to pick and choose who they want to give more vote(s), either townie or fellow mafia. One way to kind of keep the mafia on their toes is to split up everyone into 5 groups of 3. Then during the night you choose at random who you would like to give vote(s) too. My thinking behind this is that it gives mafia less information as to where votes in particular are going. Randomness though is a double edged sword. This can either hurt town or hurt mafia. So, it seems almost everyone is on board with the 1 vote circle trade system. I think this is the best way to minimize mafia tampering and vote gaining. If anything it severely stifles their ability to accrue a mass amount of votes over the course of one night, which is a possibility if some mafia seems particularly pro-town to the majority of people. In the first paragraph he outlines a needlessly convoluted plan with the main goal of "keeping the mafia on their toes" by "randomly choosing" who votes go to within smaller groups of townies. But in the second paragraph, he makes sure to agree with the circlejerk plan. Why? If you support the circle-voting plan then why are you coming up with more options? The day is half over bro, it's time to start thinkin about that LYNCH. On January 27 2012 13:02 Paperscraps wrote: My FoS is on MeatlessTaco right now. But not your vote. Why? Whether we've come to a consensus on how to deal with the votes or not, we still have to lynch someone today. That starts with votes. Now, I agree that MeatlessTaco doesn't look great with his lack of reasoning for his votes and blatant sheeping, but lynch? Not to mention the fact that you're in favor of this circlejerk plan...but... On January 26 2012 12:10 MeatlessTaco wrote: Townies, we need a plan. The vote system could cause us problems if we don't stick together. We'll need to ascertain what vote-rigging abilities the scum have, to do this we need a circle of trust. We'll all trade votes in a circle instead of doing it haphazardly. Any vote manipulation by the scum will result in merciless lynching. It was MeatlessTaco's idea! He was the first to suggest it! If it's "the best option", then why are you the most interested in lynching the person who brought it up first? My guess? He doesn't even realize that MT brought it up first. He's just looking for the easiest target, and right now that's someone who suspects Palmar and voted risk.nuke for no reason. Paperscraps is scum | ||
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VisceraEyes
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And you don't vote. Are you afraid to be held accountable for your vote? Are you waiting for someone to tell you who to vote? You can always change your vote if you change your mind. What if YOUR vote spurs the scummy bandwagon that you catch the WHOLE SCUMTEAM on? It just stinks of reservation and stalling man, that's all I'm sayin. No need to get all "some people are dense" on me. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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Sorry guys - I was just looking at the votecount and realized I've been riding peoples ASS about time and I didn't even realize the deadline. My bad. I feel like an asshole. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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On January 28 2012 08:58 layabout wrote: Should we be lynching someone active that may be scummy or someone who is lurking hard like Node? You should be lynching someone you think is scum - if you think Node's relative inactivity is more scummy than any of the active players, then you should vote Node. If you think we've got a better shot at lynching scum in the more active players, read over the cases present or build a case on who you think it should be and vote them. Node's inactivity is pretty standard if I recall correctly, but his vote on Palmar kinda worries me. I mean, even with his cavalier attitude, Palmar is definately not the scummiest person in the thread. Who are you looking at inside the active players layabout? | ||
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VisceraEyes
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On January 28 2012 10:05 Paperscraps wrote: If you think I am guilty, why not vote me up then? I am leaving my vote on Palmar, because he is being unreasonable. Hopefully he will post something more constructive, instead of just calling people "dumb". I on the other hand am open to suggestions and willing to change if people post logical arguments. 4/15 chance to hit mafia, 11/15 chance to hit townie. You are willing to lynch me right now and that would be very bad for town. Why the sudden change from purple and viscera to me? Why is a no-lynch so frowned upon? I understand that we can only kill mafia by lynching, but D1 odds are against us. Because the odds are against us all days, not just D1. Do you think scum are going to withhold their NK because they haven't figured out who's blue yet? More information would be nice, but a slightly lessened chance of killing scum (lynching D1) is better than zero chance of killing scum (NL D1). If you want to see the No-Lynch in action, go check out XLVIII.+ Show Spoiler + Scum Victory - not really because of the No-Lynches, but please note the chaos that surrounds EVERY lynch. NL is hardly ever the answer. I'm going back to do a reread and a couple filters, so in the meantime... ##Unvote: Paperscraps I don't think I'll be able to get the support I'd need, and I'm starting to doubt you're red myself. Not many scum would suggest no-lynch like that...especially since it's so frowned upon in most towns. I'll be back later tonight with my vote. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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##Vote: wherebugsgo lol @ people who think I'm scum. | ||
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##Vote: Palmar Palmar hasn't been interested in finding scum this game, he's been interested in bucking any kind of plan town has tried to come up with and tunneling me. So why wasn't he trying to get me lynched first? Why when I was his preferred lynch yesterday wouldn't he come after me first? Well, it probably has something to do with the fact that he's waiting on me to react to something that I've yet to react to. You see, I was actually hit last night, meaning one of only a few possible scenarios is going on: Palmar lied and was not hit: this is my guess. Palmar was hit by a vig and I was hit by scum: Not as likely, considering scum's gimped kp and no-flip mechanic. Palmar was hit by scum and I was hit by vig: see above. Now, we're at a crossroads. I've got a scum read on Palmar and a town read on LSB, and Palmar is pushing for an LSB lynch. This much doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is the wagon that's on LSB. Other than misunderstanding the rules early on, LSB has clearly been trying to figure out the best way for town to come out ahead with the vote-switches. I can't and won't support a lynch of LSB. But I feel like everyone should vote at once for Palmar because he's only interested in confusing town and keeping town in the dark. | ||
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VisceraEyes
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Do the right thing town. Don't lynch me. I'm off to work. | ||
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