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A General Guide to Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
January 09 2012 06:49 GMT
#1
Introduction


This general guide highlights the fundamental themes of the game of mafia. It is not designed as an advanced guide to playing mafia, though it should serve as a nice refresher for everyone regardless of experience level. For a more advanced guide, see Ver’s TL Mafia XXX analysis. As a general note, just because a section is labeled Town or Mafia doesn't mean it isn't useful to the opposing team. There are tips in all the sections that benefit all players even if you don't share the same alignment.

Table of Contents

I. Overview of the Game
  • What is Mafia?
  • Why play Mafia? What is required to play?
  • Why forum Mafia? Why play on TL?
  • How do I join a game? What are the different types of games?


II. Town
  • Defining Mafia Characteristics
  • Priority #1: Establishing Your Innocence
  • Reading the Thread
  • Posting
  • Voting
  • Blue Roles/Roleclaims
  • Bad Townie or Mafia?


III. Mafia
  • Balance: Survival v. Pushing Your Agenda
  • How to Argue Your Way Out of a Lynch
  • Team Organization
  • Kill Strategy
  • Post Strategy
  • Team Organization


I. Overview of the Game


What is Mafia?

To put very simply, Mafia is a game of lying. There is a group of people, some of them are lying and some are telling the truth. Your job is to figure out who is lying, or if you are lying to convince the rest of the group that you are telling the truth.

To elaborate, the game is divided into two teams: the town and mafia. Mafia know who each other are and can coordinate their actions privately. Townies on the other hand don't know anything other than their own role. To compensate, there are many more townies than mafia; usually the ratio is 1 mafia for every 4 townies. In other words, Mafia is a game of an informed minority against an uninformed majority. Can the mafia use its superior organization and knowledge to lead the town astray? Or can the town figure out the mafia and kill them before their numbers advantage runs out?

At the beginning of the game you are PM'ed your role. The game is divided into two repeating phases: day and night. Days last 48 hours and revolve around deciding a lynch target by means of voting. Every player in the game gets one vote, and each player must argue and convince the others to lynch their target. At the end of the day the person with the most votes is lynched; their alignment and role are revealed and they are removed from the game. The majority of the action in the game takes place during the day phase.

Night is 24 hours long and is reserved for private actions. Any player in the game that has an ability (such as mafia kills, detective checks, medic protections, etc.) can use their power in this phase. Usually during the night everyone discusses the results of the lynch and makes plans for the next day. It serves as downtime from the emotionally charged days. After the night ends, a day post comes up with the results of who dies. After the day post, the discussion for lynch begins anew.

Once there is a winner, everyone will typically weigh in on the game with their thought process and advice. Many times the hosts or observers will contribute their thoughts as well.

Why play Mafia? What is required to play?

Mafia is a game of logic, intuition, persuasiveness, reading ability, emotion, and will. In short, its a thinking man's game. There are many different ways to approach the game and every game is a very different experience. Whether you are looking to test and improve your intelligence or have a unique, fun experience, Mafia is the right game for you.

Be warned: Mafia requires a time commitment. This generally depends on the player, but at minimum 1 to 2 hours a day of solid effort is required. Some players spend as much as 8 or 10 hours a day playing Mafia. More time spent gives you a better chance at making the right decisions, but you can do a very acceptable job with just 1 to 2 hours a day. Mafia games typically last between 1 and 2 weeks, but usually you will die at some point before it ends.

As part of the time commitment, mafia requires a great deal of reading. Most people actually are very poor at reading comprehension and playing Mafia is a great way at improving your reading ability. As you also must be posting each cycle, Mafia is a good way to improve your writing and ability to think and argue logically.

In addition, mafia is not for the faint-hearted or overly emotional. While not occurring every game, sometimes people can get into very heated arguments with one another. People can get very emotional playing Mafia, as it is a high-intensity endeavour. That being said, playing Mafia is an excellent way for developing thick skin, improving your patience, and making yourself a stronger person mentally. In addition, there's an unspoken rule that arguments are kept in the game. After the game is over and everyone cools down, there is rarely any bad blood. Some people may be harsher than others, but almost everyone is here to help each other learn and improve.

Why forum Mafia? Why play on TL?

Many people have played mafia in real life and wonder how you can play it online. After all, real life games are in a much shorter period, with no accurate information logging, and let you interact in a more informative medium than text. To put it simply, yes you can play mafia online without any problems. No, it is not quite the same and you will need to adjust your approach and play slightly.

In forum mafia, you have the ability to view logs over a period of days instead of relying on memory during a chaotic 20 minutes. You find mafia by analyzing motives, objectives for posting, and closely scrutinizing what people write. Naturally arguments are more sterile as it is based solely on cold text.

Think of the difference between forum and real life mafia as this: for the former, imagine a detective hard at work, pouring over reports, speeches, and witnesses trying to solve a murder; in the latter case, a detective grills someone in an interrogation room and tries to outwit or break them. Both have their perks and while the overall goal is the same, both require different skill sets to master.

As a magnified version of TL, this is a tight-knit community. Many players are long-time members, and you’ll frequently be playing games with the same people. Like a real mafia, we watch out for our own.

How do I join a game? What are the different types of games?

If you want to join a game, just wait until the next game is unveiled and type /in. Usually if you check the forum once every other day or so you won't miss out on anything coming up. You can check the active mafia games list at at the top of the forum to see what games are coming up soon. Be warned: some games, especially by certain hosts, are very popular and tend to fill up fast.

The amount of games going on depends on activity, but the goal is to have between two or three games simultaneously happening. Do your part and help make this happen!

There are three different types of games: normal, themed, and mini. Normal games are the mainstay of the forum. They typically have 20 to 30 players, and the rule sets only differ slightly between games. If you sign up for a normal game, you know what you're getting into. Setups will almost always have a good degree of balance and you can expect to have a fair shot at winning no matter which side you are on. Normal games are where the highest level of play and activity is. If you want competition, this is where it’s at.

Themed games encompass a wide variety of types. Usually they have unique roles, flavor, and game mechanics. Many hosts like to try their pet setups or whatever kooky idea they came up with. As such, theme games tend to hit or miss. There have been some very good ones, and some complete busts. Since the setups can be strange, there are usually opportunities to win by thinking outside the box and developing unique strategies.

Mini games are special 9 to 15 player setups which may be normal or themed. Since there are a smaller number of players, there is generally less to read and fewer players you will have to analyze. However this means that there is more pressure on you to fulfill your role, as one person represents a higher percentage of the total players than in a normal game.

II. Town


Defining Mafia Characteristics


When looking to catch mafia, remember that the mafia are playing the stalling game. They do not care if they are eventually caught, as long as they must survive long enough while forcing the town to make errors. Thus, mafia actions can generally be split into two rough categories:

  • A. Survival
    1. Hiding/Blending in
    2. Posting long but contentless posts
    3. Lurking
    4. Indecision
    5. Not wanting to point fingers
    6. Avoiding responsibility
    7. Apathy about who is lynched*


  • B. Pushing their agenda
    1. Promoting confusion
    2. Avoiding contributing new ideas
    3. Making a big deal about nothing
    4. Cherry Picking town mistakes while ignoring contributions


Before diving into the details it’s important to note that, while not all mafia players look the same, there are some common traits that can be used as starting points for your investigation.

In general, mafia don’t blatantly make “slips” that allow you to find them through any one given post, but you will often find one critical sentence or post that is the key to unraveling their motives. Not all of a player’s posts will give off mafia vibes, and it is an important skill to be able to identify which important posts give away a players’ true colors. What you must be looking at is not necessarily what people do, but how they do it. This means it is critical to read and re-read a player’s posts in order to look for context and motive.

On the survival side, mafia generally try to blend in. The easiest job for the mafia is when they get to sit and watch the town kill themselves, as townies have a natural inclination to kill people who stick out in the crowd.

In order to blend in with the town, mafia need to appear to be interested in the town agenda. Thus, they may often feign usefulness while contributing nothing of value to the discussion. This allows the mafia to appear pro-town without compromising the mafia agenda. Methods that mafia employ to do this include: rephrasing old arguments, posting random lists of people (town or scum), or summarizing recent events.

Lurking is another tactic often employed by mafia when the town is disinterested or inactive. When the town isn’t actively working to root out the mafia, the mafia have no need to actively mislead the town and thus can simply sit back and grab the easy win. In this scenario, you will likely find multiple scum hiding among the inactives while passively agreeing with the lynch or opposing it without any real attempt at stopping it. However, lurking is only one potential indicator, and doesn’t conclusively prove that a player is mafia. Townies can often go inactive, so use this cautiously as a prompt for further investigation.

Indecision and a conspicuous lack of finger-pointing are also key mafia traits because of their perceived need to keep their story straight and avoid self-contradictions. Naturally, if they don’t take any definite positions, they have nothing to defend or be consistent with in the future. Furthermore, mafia feel uncomfortable pointing out whom they think is mafia, because they are always conscious of the fact that they cannot give an impartial answer. Not accusing anyone also helps them avoid being thrust into the spotlight in the future. Look for people who are acting like politicians and trying too hard to keep their options open.

Especially in the early game, it is likely that no mafia will be up for lynch. In this case, the mafia don’t really have a motive for pushing one lynch over another, and even if they wish to avoid appearing indecisive, still do not want to be blamed for a townie’s death. Thus, a typical mafia error is to show apathy in a lynch both to avoid responsibility and blend in with the town.

So now that we’ve outlined some ways of how the mafia attempt to survive, how do you spot them pushing their agenda?

The mafia’s goal is to force enough town mistakes to ensure a win. This is generally accomplished by overloading the town with useless information and promoting an atmosphere of confusion, doubt, emotion, and a lack of transparency and direction. Try to look for players who are content to stir the pot and do not try to provide clarity or direction to the town.

Priority #1: Establishing Your Innocence

So, you know how to look for mafia and are ready to smoke them out. But unfortunately, just knowing how to find mafia is not good enough. The other part of the equation is convincing the town that you’ve found them. While you may be correct, it takes more than your own vote to properly seal the deal and kill off the mafia.
As a townie, your number 1 priority is to establish your innocence.
Why? Establishing your innocence does three things:

  1. It gives you a credible platform from which you can push your agenda
  2. It reduces the mafia’s options for pushing their agenda - they can’t attack you without some serious consequences
  3. It reduces the number of viable mafia candidates - if the town thinks you are innocent that’s one less person to worry about


To elaborate:
1) It is hard to get people to listen to you if they are unsure of your motives. There are times where townies will ignore persuasive evidence based on an (irrational) fear that you might be pulling the wool over their eyes. Establishing your innocence allows you to focus on hunting the mafia instead of wasting energy defending yourself.

2) Very often, the mafia spreads doubt by inflating the importance of town mistakes. By establishing your innocence, you deny mafia the chance to attack you.

3) Sometimes the best way to find the mafia is by figuring out who isn't mafia. Every player who establishes their innocence gives the mafia less room to hide. The more people acting in obviously innocent ways, the more exposed the mafia become. Furthermore, if you can ensure that you won’t be the lynch target, you increase the town’s chances of lynching correctly and ensure that they don't get distracted debating your innocence.

How do you establish your innocence? It is difficult to define parameters for this, but a good start is to know what benefits town, and act on it. As in the previous section, the town benefits from clarity, transparency, and direction. Try to contribute to these goals in whatever way possible. When you post, make sure there is a clear purpose to your post. Don’t repeat points of what other people have mentioned. Read the entire thread before posting, and don’t go back to old points unless you have something new to add to the discussion. Offer conclusions and clear opinions in your posts instead of rehashing information or being indecisive.

Reading the Thread


When reading the thread, make sure you are not caught up in the moment. This is a forum with dynamic discussion, not a novel. Reading the thread in chronological fashion will therefore likely lead to confusion and a lack of focus. Because people are reading the thread at different times and will often post their thoughts without considering if the topic is exhausted, certain controversial issues can get dragged out in the thread and become disproportionately visible compared to their actual significance.

Catch up on reading as much as possible. The more you have to read, the more difficult it is to stay on top of the game.

Remember that re-reading is very important part of mafia. Every time a player dies, his alignment is revealed. Go back and re-read everything said by and about that player with this new information. This is especially important when a town-aligned player gets lynched.

  • Step 1: Get a general idea of what major events are occurring in the thread.
  • Step 2: Identify the major actors in these events. Who are the “spotlight” characters? Who is pushing the big issues? Who is avoiding the big issues?
  • Step 3: Assign responsibility. Which players are directing the flow of the thread?
  • Step 4: Positioning: What is a player trying to accomplish in their posts? Where are they headed?


It is very easy to make a mistake on step 4 and fall into thinking that you are drawing evidence from the data when in fact you are making too many simplifications about certain behaviors. If there are multiple ways to explain someone’s behavior, consider all of them instead of jumping to the one that suggests that they are mafia.

Don’t read too many posts in succession without stepping back to see the whole picture. Going on a thread reading marathon tends to make you focus too much on the present and will wear you out, especially if there is a lot of spam and useless discussion. It can also blind you to the smaller but more critical details of the thread.

Posting in the Thread


A. General Posting Strategy


Being an obvious innocent is worth a lot more than being an active but confused poster. Don’t babble. If you speak without having a clear goal in mind, you impede the town and decrease everyone else’s productivity. This paralyzes town analysis and decision-making and allows mafia to hide in the chaos. You don’t have to be a super-active poster to prove your innocence or be useful to the town.

You do not need to be useful in an active and eye-popping way. Perhaps due to historical inactivity, TL Mafia players seem to have an unnatural urge to post everything that comes to mind in an attempt to avoid inactivity and keep the ball rolling. However, there are worse things than inactivity, and a game can hardly be called active if it is only the same 8 people repeating themselves in the thread. Your primary goal should be post quality rather than quantity. The game thread is not twitter. You don’t have to reply to every post or question you see with “@PlayerName”.

You should not post without a plan or agenda. The more obvious your agenda is, the easier it is for people to see your innocence. Make sure there is a purpose to every post. You should never post reflexively or impulsively. The content of your posts should flow together naturally while indicating “I am helping the town”.

Mafia is a game where it is not uncommon to draw multiple conclusions from the same facts. Make sure your “analysis” is clearly drawn from the facts rather than superficially pointing out irrelevant facts to prop up your theory. Do not fall into confirmation bias by believing so strongly in your conclusions that you twist every possible thing your target says to support your case and ignore evidence that contradicts your conclusion.

When digging for information, don’t just ask the direct questions expecting the answer you want to hear. The mafia are obviously not going to want to answer the way you’d like them to. Don’t ask questions hoping for a slip-up; ask questions intending to force the mafia to give up information. Before asking a question, you must have a realistic expectation of what the answer will be. Many townies ask open-ended or direct questions that have zero chance of bringing out useful information. You must predict the answers to the questions before asking them in order to avoid pointless questions. Don’t repetitively ask questions unless you know you can accurately process the information you receive.

One common phenomenon these days is that people spam the question “what do you think of player X?” or “what do you think of the current situation?”. These questions can certainly get a player to respond, but the broadness of the question doesn’t really force out information. In many cases, it just invites people to post already stated opinions and leads to more spam.

Just because someone makes stupid posts does not mean they are mafia. Oftentimes, the people who make the blatantly bad posts are not really mafia; they are just careless townies. Townies are frequently bored, while the mafia are not. On the other hand, townies usually aren’t afraid to post, while the mafia are. When you are considering whether a post was made by a mafia or a townie, make sure to consider the motivations behind the words. If you end up thinking that the player is mafia, go back and ask yourself if there is a possible townie explanation for a player’s posts. If some sort of reasonable explanation exists, it is okay to go forward with your accusation, but don’t go overboard. Many townies have been lynched by overzealous townies who convinced themselves that their target was mafia, even though there was plenty of doubt as to their actual alignment.

B. What Not to Post


Refrain from posting insults, spam, and 1 liners. Contrary to what you may think, insulting people is a good way to ensure that people won’t listen to you.

Stray away from subjective and speculative posting. Draw conclusions from facts rather than making the facts fit your desired conclusion.

Don’t argue with your target. They are never going to agree with you, so you are just taking up space. If it appears that your target is convincing the town not to vote for them, re-evaluate. If you are still confident in your analysis, focus on convincing the other townies. You want to intimidate your target and convince the town, not the other way around.

Don’t try to say everything. Don’t respond to every point. (This means don’t post an analysis quoting all of your target’s posts!) This muddles your agenda and clutters up the thread. Stick to the important points.

Don’t repeat yourself unless your original statement was spammed out the first time (which also means, don’t spam your own points into oblivion).

If you find yourself saying: “It's reasonable to assume that...”, stop. Especially when followed by “the mods [would/wouldn’t]...” These types of assumptions can be fatal and could potentially lead to a loss if the town pursues this type of witch hunt for too long. It's best just to never start in the first place.

Voting


As a townie, you may think that you have no power. The power to vote may sound boring but, if used correctly, can be very influential.

Do not throw a vote around nonchalantly. Just like your posting, make sure your voting is also deliberate. Your vote should convincingly express your opinion and intimidate the mafia. Votes are not be something to be ignored. If you are not using a vote to express that player X is 100% mafia, you should be using it to draw out information. You may be surprised how well votes force people to talk. Seeing how people react to your vote also gives you an indication of what bandwagons people are willing to jump on.

Generally, two types of lynching systems are used in TL Mafia games: majority lynch and plurality lynch. It is important to distinguish between the two as each system calls for different strategies from the town and the mafia.

In a plurality lynch system, the player with the most votes is lynched, regardless of whether or not he had a majority of the votes. This system encourages people to vote according to their own reads and promotes polycentric discussion among multiple candidates. In contrast, in a majority lynch system, a player is only lynched when he obtains a majority of the total votes. This system promotes a focus on fewer targets and forces a consensus in order to lynch.

A common misconception in a majority lynch system is that no-lynch is bad due to the notion that flips are the only source of information. While flips are useful in confirming information, there are many cases where it is clear that town is bandwagoning a player and will lead to a mislynch. In most cases, a bandwagon lynch on a townie is not going to produce any useful information. Without serious competition for a lynch target, the mafia don’t have any incentive to either jump on or stay off the bandwagon. Unless there is insurmountable evidence that the target is mafia, a quick bandwagon usually suggests that the player is town. Don’t be afraid to no-lynch in this situation. Going with the flow and agreeing to bandwagon a townie stifles discussion and allows the mafia to coast through the day without giving up any information. It is better to force the discussion and risk a no-lynch than to go along with an obvious town bandwagon. Do not use the excuse that “Player X is a useless player, so I’m ok with lynching him” as an excuse to jump on a bandwagon. While it may be true that the elimination of Player X won’t significantly hurt the town, wasting an entire day’s discussion certainly does. Lynching useless or bad players isn’t necessarily bad, but never let it happen without discussion. Unless there is a convincing case that someone is mafia, finding useful information should be prioritized over lynching. Thus you should only lynch a useless or bad player if there is a decent likelihood they are mafia or if they are actively hurting the town.

As stated earlier, always vote deliberately. However, this does not mean that you should always say why you are voting the way you are. Never reveal that you are pressure voting, as this destroys its effectiveness. Refrain from saying that you are “pressure voting” or “policy voting”.

As the game progresses and people start to flip, reread the vote lists to see who voted for these dead people. This is especially important when a mafia gets lynched, as fellow mafia members may have voted elsewhere to try to save their buddy, or they may have jumped on the bandwagon to look innocent. If the vote count is very close, the mafia will probably be on the other lynch candidate to attempt to save their fellow mafia. On the other hand, if the lynch was an overwhelming majority, the mafia will probably have voted for their buddy to try to blend in with the town. Typically mafia try to spread out their votes as much as possible to avoid being connected to one another if they have no vested interest in the lynch.

Blue Roles and Roleclaiming


A. Blue Roles


When you find out that you have a blue role, the general knee-jerk reaction is that you are too important to the town to risk being lynched or shot by the mafia. This can cause people with blue roles to lurk and exhibit posts that suggest “fear”. However, a good player with a blue role will appear exactly like he is a townie, though this is not easy to do. When you have a blue role, you should be posting as if you are a townie. The only difference is that you are more well-informed than other townies. Use that knowledge to aid the town without letting a feeling of your importance as a blue role alter your posting habits.

As a general rule, normal townies should not attempt to direct blue roles or try to find out who is blue and who is not. Town power roles work better if the mafia are uncertain of what the blue roles will do. It is not uncommon for the mafia to have anti-blue roles such as roleblockers, medics, framers, etc. Therefore, if the mafia has a general idea that the medic will protect X, or the DT will check Y, they are free to mess with those actions if they feel it to be necessary. Do not make medic lists, DT lists, or vig lists, as they are generally unhelpful or even detrimental to the town. As long as you are doing a good job of posting constructively and sharing your suspicions, good blue roles who are reading the thread should have the information to know what to do. Don’t direct their actions just because you suspect they are incompetent.

Recent games have had the not uncommon phenomenon where a player will “catch” someone on a “blue slip”. Besides “blue slips” like this generally being incorrect and distracting the town, there is no reason for a townie to reveal who they suspect is blue. If someone is blue, then the last thing you want to do is announce it to the whole thread, as if you’re right you just made the mafia’s job a whole lot easier.

B. Roleclaiming


Should the game include PMs, do not privately roleclaim to anyone unless you are absolutely certain they are innocent or if you need someone to act as your mouth in the thread. The outcome of many games will revolve on the status of a “blue circle”. Be very cautious of people in the circle as mafia will almost always have an infiltrator.

Playing each of the more common blue roles should be handled in a simple manner. Medics should protect people who are making sense in the thread. Vigilantes should shoot players who are anti-town or lurkers. Detectives should be finding mafia and not using their powers to confirm people as town.

If you are in a tough spot and are thinking about roleclaiming, stop and then think again. Roleclaiming should never be taken lightly, especially if the game setup is closed or if the mafia has powers that can sabatoge your role. Do not roleclaim out of a panic just because you have a few votes for you. If you are truly town, you should be trying to argue your way out of a lynch, not needlessly giving up information on your role. Chances are, if you are truly that suspicious, your claim won’t be taken seriously anyway.

If you are roleclaiming, why are you doing it? How does the town benefit from your claim? If there is no clear benefit to your claim, then don’t claim. Claiming that you have a town check on player X just because player X is beginning to get votes is not a good reason to claim. Claiming that you took a hit last night as town is always good, since it is (usually) information that the mafia already has, and the mafia usually cannot take advantage of this information anyway. Claiming that you shot player X as a vig after the fact is usually a good claim if you have no shots left, especially if you hit a red, as you bring new information to the table that the mafia cannot punish.

Unfortunately, in many games, people roleclaim needlessly for bad reasons. Unless there is a clear method to confirm a roleclaim or the claim brings other game changing information to the table (for example, a red check), put it away to discuss/resolve later. A poorly thought-out roleclaim coming in the middle of the day is very disruptive to the thread and can cause the town to lose focus, resulting in much unneeded drama and ill informed lynches.




III. Mafia


Survival v. Pushing Your Agenda


As mafia, you are playing a stalling game. But survival MUST be balanced with pushing your agenda if you are to successfully gain the advantage. A common mistake of newer mafia players is that they emphasize surviving at all costs without giving consideration to furthering their own agenda.

So, what is the mafia agenda? It is primarily to prevent the town from gathering critical information and realizing what is going on. Thus, the mafia benefits from an atmosphere of chaos, confusion, and lack of clarity.

At the start of the game, you possess the information advantage over the town. Use this to your advantage and don’t give it up lightly. Sometimes, mafia will give up information to appear pro-town, when in fact that information later comes back to haunt them as town puts the pieces together.

When you are about to reveal a piece of information (such as a role claim, hit claim, etc.), you should ask yourself how this claim benefits your agenda. If your claim casts suspicion on a player or doubt on a situation, while making you appear like you are trying to figure things out, then by all means claim. However, if you are not currently under heavy suspicion and your only answer is “it makes me look pro-town”, it is probably not a good idea to reveal the information.

As mafia, you may often see that townies who are generally accepted as “pro-town” early in the game can hold a disproportional influence over the town. You might think to yourself, “We need to prevent that from happening, or at least, become that person”. The first part of that statement is correct; the second is not.

Although the temptation of appearing to be the most “pro-town” player may be great, you often cannot hold this status for long enough as mafia for it to truly benefit you. Town players who gain the “pro-town” status usually are able to hold onto it because their motives are consistent throughout the game. However, as a mafia, the longer the game goes, the harder it will be to keep your story straight, and the easier it will be for you to lose your status. In other words, “town credit” decays over the course of the game. Against a competent town, don’t expect that you can set yourself up for a free win by acting too pro-town early in the game. Many newer players will often erroneously overvalue town credit. In reality, town credit is very fickle and lynches are seldom based solely on someone's town credit.

Even if your team isn’t thinking “We must get the perfect win”, it is often difficult to get out of the mindset of “If one of us is lynched, we are all doomed!” While it is nice to have more members alive, it ultimately doesn’t matter if you win with 2 or 10 members remaining at the endgame. One of the most difficult, yet most overlooked, decisions as mafia is choosing whether or not to defend a teammate.

The weakness of an active mafia team can usually be traced to the decision-making process with regard to defending teammates. When attacked, many mafia will usually react on the fly without thinking things through. They may not be able to accurately judge how much support an accusation may get, and thus are not quick enough to decide what is the best course of action. This is a mistake you want to avoid. Before giving your opinion on one of your fellow mafia members, the most critical step is to assess the presented case. Do not mindlessly jump in and defend or waver over an indefensible accusation, as it may implicate you in a future lynch. On the other extreme, do not simply sit there and watch a teammate die if the case is weak. When town makes a weak or questionable case, you should feel free to logically pick apart their case, as even if the target flips red, you should be able pass off the previous accusation as logically weak.

How to Argue Your Way Out of a Lynch


There is never a concrete or easy way to avoid getting lynched. Nevertheless, be calm and logical when defending yourself against accusations. Don’t immediately accuse your attacker for voting you. Oftentimes a person will get lynched for overreacting to the accusations. Remember that you do not need to convince everyone (including your attacker) that you are innocent, just enough people to save yourself from being lynched. You only need a small majority of the town to think you are worth keeping alive. Better yet is when you can get other townies to vouch for your innocence. Small but vocal groups can be influential to turning lynches around. It is easy to think that you are doomed because the entire town is voting you off. While this may be the case, usually it is only a few people who are actively pushing the lynch. Gaining favor with a few influential players is usually a better strategy than attempting to persuade each individual voter, whose reasons may simply be that they agree with one of your vocal accusers.

If one of your mafia buddies is being attacked, do not freak out and immediately defend them. However, do not totally ignore the case against them either, as you will only look suspicious should they get killed. Generally, there are two things you can do to help ease the focus off your ally. You can either dismiss the case by attacking it head on (i.e., dismissing the accusations as fallacious), or distracting the town (i.e., bringing up another subject, or proposing an alternative target). In keeping with the above advice, determine how strong the case against your ally actually is and plan accordingly. Sometimes, a combination of the two works best. If the case is weak, you can often get away with acknowledging it then quickly dismissing it while moving on to a different topic.

Kill Strategy

When you have limited KP and multiple targets you wish to eliminate, it is important to prioritize your kills.

  1. Posters that are making sense and are on the right track
  2. Townies that are known for being dangerous analysts
  3. Blue roles (especially DTs and Medics)
  4. Confirmed townies


Your first priority is to kill players who are on the right track. As mafia, you need to stall and keep the town in the dark. Just because a player may not be the town leader doesn’t mean their ideas cannot be influential. Kill players who are on the right track above all else; otherwise it will come back to bite you. Do not take the unnecessary risk of thinking that “I can outargue this player”. Though a player may not currently have clout in the game due to early lackluster performance, all it takes is a good post or two to sway the town and shift the momentum of the game.

Your second priority is to focus on players who are traditionally strong town analysts. These players have a serious possibility of ruining your game if they end up being able to get their reads right. If there are no players who are presently on the right track, it is usually a safe bet to shoot one of these strong analysts. While these players have varying styles of play, don’t wait until they are correct in order to shoot them. Some of these players hide their reads until they come out with an ironclad case - in which case you are too late. Other players may be wrong initially, but will eventually piece things together and swing things against your favor if you leave them alone for too long. Shoot these players before they ever get to that point.

Your third priority is to kill dangerous blue roles. As the game goes on longer, blue roles tend to have a larger effect. DT investigations become stronger when compared against all the other information in the thread, while remaining medics in a smaller pool of players makes a game-changing save more likely. Roleclaims also become more powerful and compelling when matched with good gameplay. If you choose to ignore the blue roles, they will eventually come back to haunt you. Thus, when there are no bigger kill priorities, you should attempt to shoot blue roles, as this not only reduces the threat of late game blue roles, but demoralizes the town. Hunting for blue roles is somewhat complex and is beyond the scope of this guide, but in general, a newbie blue mistake is to hide and express fear of becoming a high profile target. As a start, blue players are ones who are not really aggressive in the thread, but still try to contribute to the town without sticking their neck out. Also, blue players often have a habit of talking about and discussing the rules pertaining to their role.

Lastly, it is important to kill off confirmed town players. Especially as the endgame approaches, live confirmed townies are a headache because you know you won’t be able to get them lynched. Unless they are actively sabotaging the town by having a bunch of followers blindly following their incorrect reads, keeping these players alive isn’t going to do you much good. They’ve already been eliminated from the pool of potential mafia candidates, and it's better to keep the townies suspicious of each other rather than letting one confirmed townie lead them all.

Post Strategy


As with town, make sure that there is a purpose behind every post. You want to keep the town confused while avoiding responsibility for it. When deciding how and what to post, you need to consider how the town is doing and react accordingly. Is the town being dominated by aggressive players, active posters, thoughtful posters, or inquisitive posters? Are the players generally cooperating on figuring things out, or is there a lot of tension and drama in the thread? The more things go the town’s way, the more important it is to intervene and cloud the thread. You do not want to play passively as mafia if the town is laying the foundation for a good town atmosphere.

When the town is allowed to focus on one or two key topics at a time (without the same points being repeated over and over), then the town is in a strong place. Lack of doubt, inflammatory posting, and strong town leadership must be avoided. Here are some of the things mafia can do to steer the town in the wrong direction:

  1. Incite active or aggressive players to do the work for you. If you can get a player emotionally invested enough in one train of thought, they can likely cause the chaos you need without linking you directly to the bad atmosphere. If something goes wrong, the town will generally blame the most vocal and aggressive person, even if someone else was really behind the chaos. By letting other townies do the work for you, you allow them to take the fall when town realizes they were on the wrong track.

  2. Inflate unimportant matters. If town is spending the first day debating whether to lynch or no-lynch, then that is an entire day lost where they could have been analyzing and pressuring people. In general, policy debates are unproductive for the town and are a good way to create distractions.

  3. Crowd out any important posts that the town makes. If someone makes a post that implicates one of your allies, consider whether or not the player who made that post is credible and active. If they are not, you don’t necessarily need to respond to it head on. Continue on with discussion about other topics and bury that post so that it is hopefully ignored. Even if someone does come back and find it later, it will be difficult for anyone to trace the post burying back to you.

  4. Post misleading analysis. Newer mafia are usually afraid to push suspicions and instead wait to see what the town consensus is before jumping onto any particular lynch. This is a mistake that can often get you caught, particularly if other mafia are on the chopping block. Don’t be afraid to push for the lynch of suspicious townies. Focus on the suspicious aspects of their play and punish them for it.


Many times, the town is not destroyed by direct mafia intervention, but by sheeping and a lack of critical thinking. When the town tends to base their accusations off of flawed assumptions, you must simply punish them by feeding their conviction in their own misconceptions. Here are a few examples of bad town plays that you can take advantage of:

  1. Lynching for information. Townies will frequently come up with reasoning such as “lynching X will give is the most information”. While it is sometimes true that lynching a mafia will lead to more juicy information, lynching a townie almost always tells you nothing. Since mafia has nothing at stake when a townie is lynched (except when one of the only two viable lynch candidates is red), town cannot gather much information from a mislynch.

  2. Discussion about game balance. In closed or semi-open setups, town often spends time arguing about how the host balanced the game, either in role balance, or player balance. More often than not, this discussion is just time wasted that could be used to hunt mafia and pressure people. Debating these items only disorganizes the town and distracts them from achieving their overall goal.

  3. Bussing. When mafia let one of their own get lynched on purpose, this is called throwing your teammate under the bus, or ‘bussing’. This tactic should rarely be employed, but players will often discuss it when debating lynch candidates. Simple explanations are often the most correct, but playing on the town’s fears and allowing them to run with these conspiracy theory-like ideas can often lead to wasted days and mislynches.

  4. Assumptions as knowledge. It is not an uncommon phenomenon that a townie is attacked for “knowing something” that townies would not know for certain when they are in fact simply making assumptions about the setup. Even if the assumptions are wrong, playing on the town’s fears and misconceptions will benefit you and keep the town in the dark.

  5. Assuming the worst. When a player is inactive, townies will often read the worst case scenario into the situation. As the player isn’t there to defend themselves, these suspicions will naturally never be countered. If you can get townies to convince themselves that a certain player is suspicious without explicitly attacking that player, you can sometimes get away without being held accountable for it.


Team Organization


Inexperienced mafia teams often suffer from a lack of cohesion and planning. Though the team may have one or two active members, the rest often suffer from fear of posting. Because of a lack of communication between the mafia, they are stuck more in the mindset of individual survival, rather than looking at the bigger picture of how they can be working together to push their agenda.

The first step in having a cohesive team is to listen to the head of the mafia. While the mafia head doesn’t need to approve every single post, they should be guiding the mafia with a broad strategic overview. How do you want the game to unfold? What happens if one of your members is attacked? What are the strengths of your players, and what does that mean for your interactions with the town?

It is very important that all the mafia members are communicating and planning together. Many mafia teams are wiped out because they stop communicating and lose a sense of direction after their leader is killed. Be sure that you let your entire team know what is going on. Having all your members all on the same page goes a long way into keeping you from shooting yourselves in the foot.

Take note your team composition and your players’ strengths. It is important to have at least one player who has a high profile and can keep the thread under control. Use this to gain political support in the thread. If you do not have enough high profile players in the thread, you risk being unable to turn the tides of a bad lynch.

It is inadequate to focus solely on your own interests and viewpoints. Especially in PM games, it is important to keep a couple townies close so you can discover what they are thinking. This will go a long ways in grounding yourself in the townie mindset so that you can have a more accurate picture of how easy or hard it will be to push certain lynches. Also, keeping notes on who tends to agree with your points of view is helpful when it comes down to a close lynch, as these are the first people you want to go to in case things aren’t going your way. When pushing your agenda, always try to grab the easy voters first before attempting to argue head on with vocal and opinionated players in the thread.

Though it is important to make sure you are disassociated from your fellow mafia members, many inexperienced mafia become fearful and overcompensate for this knowledge. Most of the time, the best way to keep yourself from straying to the extreme is to tie yourself to townies instead. Having a vocal townie who thinks you are innocent can go a long way in preventing yourself from getting lynched and can give you allies to help ease the pressure off you. Even in the event that you are lynched, if you have done a proper job at tying yourselves together, you may even be able to lead town to a mislynch after your fall. Many times townies mistakenly go by obvious thread associations to suggest that two players are mafia supporting each other in the thread when this is usually not the case.

It is not always necessary to create your own unique position in the thread. Rather, support the popular positions that act against the town’s interests. By contributing to ideas that do not help the town catch mafia you can make it appear as if you are an active, beneficial asset to the town without being responsible for the position should it end up backfiring.

Mafia have different needs in different situations. For example, there are some instances where strong, clear logic benefits the mafia (e.g. when a mafia is under attack, but when the accusation is full of logical holes), and some instances where confusion, blind aggression, and a lack of clear logic is more beneficial instead (e.g. when townies are likewise accused). Because these different situations require different types of players, it is good to have each of your members specialized for a certain role in order to maintain a consistent persona. Have some players play the logical role, while some players play the chaos-inducing role. That way, one player will not have to carry the burden of having to rebuff all the possible town attacks or be accused of playing inconsistently and toward a mafia goal.





Credits:

Minister of Secretive Affairs - Incognito
Executive Logisitics Director and King of the Jocks - Foolishness
Dude, Where’s My Shoe? - Ver
Captain Quetzalcoatl, Esquire - Qatol
Mr. Nice Guy - dreamflower
Probably doesn’t remember this was his idea - Meapak_Ziphh
Random guy who contributed the first 2 days then went mia - Palmar
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 06:58:35
January 09 2012 06:49 GMT
#2
Reserved by orders of the mayor
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
January 09 2012 07:28 GMT
#3
Yes I do remember this was my idea, I just feel terrible I was never around to work on it. However, now that it's finished I'm pleased to end up in the credits

Great job though, it serves exactly the purpose I intended it to.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Macpo
Profile Joined September 2010
453 Posts
January 09 2012 10:24 GMT
#4
Thanks a lot! This is exactly what I, as a complete noob, was looking for.

"Courage consists, however, in agreeing to flee rather than live tranquilly and hypocritically in false refuges." G. Deleuze
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
January 09 2012 10:43 GMT
#5
I was going to post, but I really don't want to give away my strategies in case I roll mafia in L
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Barundar
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark1582 Posts
January 09 2012 11:09 GMT
#6
Very nice and precise guide, we've been missing this
Bartundar
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22633 Posts
January 09 2012 11:16 GMT
#7
I actually forgot this lol. Thanks for the credit.
Computer says mafia
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 12:58:54
January 09 2012 12:58 GMT
#8
Incognito so good!

It might be useful to include some example games and stuff, if anyone has time.
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 14:46:13
January 09 2012 14:27 GMT
#9
On January 09 2012 21:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
Incognito so good!

It might be useful to include some example games and stuff, if anyone has time.


Can the wherebugsgo play a full game of mafia by only posting links to that website?

I don't think so
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
January 09 2012 15:36 GMT
#10
Love the guide! Props to everyone that contributed to making this amazing article.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
January 09 2012 15:51 GMT
#11
On January 09 2012 23:27 GreYMisT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2012 21:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
Incognito so good!

It might be useful to include some example games and stuff, if anyone has time.


Can the wherebugsgo play a full game of mafia by only posting links to that website?

I don't think so


LOL I will pwn you. it's oonnnn
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
January 09 2012 16:17 GMT
#12
I´ve either read, or I haven´t read, this guide, and regardless of that I could, but won´t necessarily, use the tactics written within in one or more games, with reservation that using these tactics in none, one or more games does not mean that I will for that matter follow them in other future games, that I will refrain from not so doing, or that I have even read the tips, at all.

Not admitting to reading the guide, I will still state that someone having written a guide, whose qualities I can´t admit to being aware of, is a good thing for this community, at least if we assume that the guide is good, and that some players, who will not be named, improved their game because of it.

Sincerely.
:3
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
January 09 2012 16:42 GMT
#13
On January 10 2012 01:17 Forumite wrote:
I´ve either read, or I haven´t read, this guide, and regardless of that I could, but won´t necessarily, use the tactics written within in one or more games, with reservation that using these tactics in none, one or more games does not mean that I will for that matter follow them in other future games, that I will refrain from not so doing, or that I have even read the tips, at all.

Not admitting to reading the guide, I will still state that someone having written a guide, whose qualities I can´t admit to being aware of, is a good thing for this community, at least if we assume that the guide is good, and that some players, who will not be named, improved their game because of it.

Sincerely.


well spoken, I will use this against you on the battlefield.
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
dreamflower
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States312 Posts
January 09 2012 16:45 GMT
#14
Nice idea to include the Overview of the Game along with the Town and Mafia sections. I think this makes a very good introduction to the game for new players, as well as a helpful list of fundamental strategies and themes for more experienced players to keep in mind while playing.
"When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers." -Oscar Wilde
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
January 09 2012 17:15 GMT
#15
WBG, I have a Question...
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
January 09 2012 18:07 GMT
#16
Linked this in my sig :D
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
January 09 2012 20:55 GMT
#17
Great Job! And I haven't even read it yet!

Can't wait
Probulous
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3894 Posts
January 09 2012 22:43 GMT
#18
If the guys in the current Newbie game read this, we would be in a much better place. Thanks everyone!
"Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
January 09 2012 23:03 GMT
#19
- I read this whole guide.
- I enjoyed reading this whole guide.
- I have used and will continue using several of the tactics contained in this guide.

At least 2 of these statements are true.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-09 23:07:59
January 09 2012 23:07 GMT
#20
On January 10 2012 08:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
- I read this whole guide.
- I enjoyed reading this whole guide.
- I have used and will continue using several of the tactics contained in this guide.

At least 2 of these statements are true.


Its a trick question, they are all False
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
January 09 2012 23:08 GMT
#21
Nice Read
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
Forumite
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden3280 Posts
January 10 2012 00:15 GMT
#22
On January 10 2012 01:42 Jayjay54 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2012 01:17 Forumite wrote:
I´ve either read, or I haven´t read, this guide, and regardless of that I could, but won´t necessarily, use the tactics written within in one or more games, with reservation that using these tactics in none, one or more games does not mean that I will for that matter follow them in other future games, that I will refrain from not so doing, or that I have even read the tips, at all.

Not admitting to reading the guide, I will still state that someone having written a guide, whose qualities I can´t admit to being aware of, is a good thing for this community, at least if we assume that the guide is good, and that some players, who will not be named, improved their game because of it.

Sincerely.


well spoken, I will use this against you on the battlefield.

Tough. I guess I´ll have to either nightkill you to get you off my back, or refrain from doing so to confuse you.
:3
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
January 10 2012 00:16 GMT
#23
cute incognito
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
January 10 2012 00:16 GMT
#24
also what is that site
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Ver
Profile Joined October 2008
United States2186 Posts
January 10 2012 03:21 GMT
#25
On January 09 2012 21:58 wherebugsgo wrote:
Incognito so good!

It might be useful to include some example games and stuff, if anyone has time.


I tried but they wouldn't let me: "it's too advanced this is a newbie guide."

if that opinion changes msg me and ill provide examples.
Liquipedia
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
January 10 2012 05:48 GMT
#26
Will add an appendix of examples sometime later when I have time.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Qatol
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States3165 Posts
January 11 2012 19:11 GMT
#27
Make flamewheel get this stickied while you're at it!
Uff Da
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
January 11 2012 23:25 GMT
#28
i am not ur workhorse
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Qatol
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States3165 Posts
January 12 2012 00:04 GMT
#29
Nah, more like a pack mule. Thanks for getting it stickied!
Uff Da
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
January 12 2012 06:48 GMT
#30
how about Progress Pony?
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
omnomMuffins
Profile Joined July 2011
United States255 Posts
March 24 2012 05:54 GMT
#31
Puppies!

Gmarsh said so
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
March 24 2012 06:05 GMT
#32
On March 24 2012 14:54 omnomMuffins wrote:
Puppies!

Gmarsh said so


Flamewheel's new name
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
March 24 2012 06:11 GMT
#33
On March 24 2012 15:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 14:54 omnomMuffins wrote:
Puppies!

Gmarsh said so


Flamewheel's new name

I'm recruiting at mlg.

I suck at remembering names, so I'm making people post here if they want a pm when the next newbie rolls around
Moderator
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
March 24 2012 06:53 GMT
#34
On March 24 2012 15:11 GMarshal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 24 2012 15:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
On March 24 2012 14:54 omnomMuffins wrote:
Puppies!

Gmarsh said so


Flamewheel's new name

I'm recruiting at mlg.

I suck at remembering names, so I'm making people post here if they want a pm when the next newbie rolls around


ok fine you killjoy,it's your new name
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
March 24 2012 15:13 GMT
#35
...Puppies?
Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 09 2012 10:12 GMT
#36
Read this too.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
GMarshal
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States22154 Posts
April 09 2012 13:07 GMT
#37
That bad, huh?
Moderator
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 10 2012 00:09 GMT
#38
very
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
April 10 2012 00:10 GMT
#39
if it was bad reading it, try actually having had to play in it :p
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17982 Posts
January 16 2013 03:00 GMT
#40
Palmar made a video of him analysing the first 10 pages (or so) of Hero Mini Mafia. It is interesting for both new players and veterans. If Incognito is still keeping the OP updated it would be great to add it.

Video: http://www.twitch.tv/palmarlol/b/346981846
Hero Mini Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
January 17 2013 22:27 GMT
#41
Video reviews of mafia game?

That's a first lol

Maybe we could span a whole industry, and have interviews with each player and have tabloids and stuff
phagga
Profile Joined February 2012
Switzerland2194 Posts
January 18 2013 08:37 GMT
#42
www.teamliquidmafia.net

Mafia Progaming news - Community - Hosts

including Live Report QTs, the scumpedia and live streaming of games commentated by Palmar and Marv!

Quick, the url is still available!

On another note, thanks to Palmar! looking the vid currently, it's really interesting.
"A person who does not concern himself with politics has already made the political choice he was so anxious to spare himself: he is serving the ruling party." - Max Frisch
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
January 18 2013 15:53 GMT
#43
I like how he's like "yeah so this guy claimed miller for some reason, what a noob" or something like that lol (only watched the first 4-5 minutes though)
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
January 20 2013 02:12 GMT
#44
.... i didn't claim miller. i never intended anyone to take it as an honest miller claim. i honestly expected people to assume that i was smart enough to read the op, therefore everyone would realize it was a joke both town and scum players alike. i overestimated how intelligent people thought I was and now i've learned my lesson.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
February 21 2013 08:08 GMT
#45
I kinda hate this idea of "establishing innocence". I always end up butting heads with newer players because I don't feel the need to always explain my motives or elaborate extensively on every point I make and they immediately assume I'm mafia or want to really aggressively pressure me for it. I understand the idea that it's ultimately bad for mafia to have to explain everything they think and do but I ultimately think a lot of the information people want from you is really useless.

Isn't scumhunting enough? Is it really productive for anyone to waste posts on trying to sell themselves as a townie? That's what the mafia is trying to do. I usually look at the players who are trying the hardest to "prove" their innocence as immediately suspicious because it suggests some kind of paranoia or inherent guilt and it makes analysis a lot easier. A good townie will make themselves apparent through their cases and scumhunting, that should be enough for anyone.
RIP Aaliyah
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17982 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-21 13:30:57
February 21 2013 13:28 GMT
#46
Don't you agree that your job as a scumhunter is made easier by townies looking ridiculously townie? If that is so, then don't you agree that other people's scumhunting jobs are made easier by YOU looking ridiculously townie?

That's why establishing your innocence is important

Not to mention: if people have painted a target on your head and are gunning for your lynch, isn't it important to show them why that is a mistake, and they should lynch a scum instead of a townie?

If your method for establishing your innocence is by clear analysis and catching scum, then that's great, but there are other ways (and ways for scum to spoof it all)!
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
February 21 2013 13:34 GMT
#47
Yeah, I generally agree with Acro. Actually making a compelling/good case on someone isn't that hard for mafia. Faking prolonged investment in town with all the tidbits/questions/attitude is in many ways quite a bit harder.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
February 21 2013 17:19 GMT
#48
On February 21 2013 22:28 Acrofales wrote:
Don't you agree that your job as a scumhunter is made easier by townies looking ridiculously townie? If that is so, then don't you agree that other people's scumhunting jobs are made easier by YOU looking ridiculously townie?

That's why establishing your innocence is important

Not to mention: if people have painted a target on your head and are gunning for your lynch, isn't it important to show them why that is a mistake, and they should lynch a scum instead of a townie?

If your method for establishing your innocence is by clear analysis and catching scum, then that's great, but there are other ways (and ways for scum to spoof it all)!


No. I try not to focus too much on defending myself against accusations because it's wasting time I could be using to try to oust scum. Unless someones case is actually gaining traction, I (in theory, assuming I don't get emotional) would prefer to just ignore it.

The one thing scum CAN'T spoof is scumhunting. It's really the only thing they can't do easily. It's a lot harder to continue to pump out fake cases than it is to do anything else that seems "townie". Townie behavior varies from player to player, I'm very abrasive and aggressive, Palmar trolls, Kenpachi claims townie either way, how exactly am I supposed to prove to anyone I am a townie?

I don't really see how there is any other way to establish innocence besides good scumhunting other than some way to prove yourself via your role like a dayvig or something.
RIP Aaliyah
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-21 17:32:35
February 21 2013 17:21 GMT
#49
On February 21 2013 22:34 marvellosity wrote:
Yeah, I generally agree with Acro. Actually making a compelling/good case on someone isn't that hard for mafia. Faking prolonged investment in town with all the tidbits/questions/attitude is in many ways quite a bit harder.


Isn't it the hardest thing to do as mafia besides deciding what to do with your activity level? When I'm looking for scum I tend to look at their cases or what their attitude is regarding the bandwagons/discussion which is usually related to a good or bad case in some way.

If "establishing innocence" just means acting in a way that is productive and pro-town, then yeah it's obvious that's something every player should do. But my #1 priority should be finding and lynching scum, not making sure everyone thinks I'm town. A town player who is always thinking about his own innocence isn't going to find scum very well.
RIP Aaliyah
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
February 21 2013 17:36 GMT
#50
You have to do your best to not try and look as suspicious as hell, because you will waste time the town could use looking at the real threats. But on the flipside there is a point where you have to stop worrying about what people think about you and scumhunt yourself. When you flip town people should look back at your cases.
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17982 Posts
February 21 2013 23:12 GMT
#51
On February 22 2013 02:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2013 22:28 Acrofales wrote:
Don't you agree that your job as a scumhunter is made easier by townies looking ridiculously townie? If that is so, then don't you agree that other people's scumhunting jobs are made easier by YOU looking ridiculously townie?

That's why establishing your innocence is important

Not to mention: if people have painted a target on your head and are gunning for your lynch, isn't it important to show them why that is a mistake, and they should lynch a scum instead of a townie?

If your method for establishing your innocence is by clear analysis and catching scum, then that's great, but there are other ways (and ways for scum to spoof it all)!


No. I try not to focus too much on defending myself against accusations because it's wasting time I could be using to try to oust scum. Unless someones case is actually gaining traction, I (in theory, assuming I don't get emotional) would prefer to just ignore it.

The one thing scum CAN'T spoof is scumhunting. It's really the only thing they can't do easily. It's a lot harder to continue to pump out fake cases than it is to do anything else that seems "townie". Townie behavior varies from player to player, I'm very abrasive and aggressive, Palmar trolls, Kenpachi claims townie either way, how exactly am I supposed to prove to anyone I am a townie?

I don't really see how there is any other way to establish innocence besides good scumhunting other than some way to prove yourself via your role like a dayvig or something.

I think you're arguing the same point If you are making good cases and continuing to pressure people correctly, ruling out townies and finding scum, I would argue that you look townie as all hell and have thus established your innocence.

However, if you say it is difficult to fake scumhunting, I respectfully disagree. Some of the scum on TL has gotten rather adept at "faking a town meta" by looking as if they are hunting scum. I'd suggest, for instance, Marv's play in Hero Mini Mafia. Did he *want* to bus Adam on D1? Not particularly, but he read the game correctly, buddied up to Palmar and lynched the crap out of his scumbuddy. He then rode the wave, "pressuring" people and making bogus cases on whoever he could get away with. I'd argue my own play in LVI was somewhat similar to this (although less refined). I even simulated a "thought process" on how I was hard on Vivax's case until I realized he couldn't be scum for some reason.

Does this play require town, to some certain extent, not be paying enough attention? Yes. It requires other townies who are not good at establishing their innocence, so scum can easily pressure them without looking bad themselves.

Therefore, if you are not all that good at scumhunting, then the least you can do is establish your innocence. Some players are simply really good at looking townie even without pro scumhunting skills catching scum at every turn. Particularly newbies and players known to have atrocious scumplay have this advantage

Players, who, imho, don't have to work on establishing their innocence: Sandroba, Syllo, Palmar, Marv, Foolishness, Radfield, maybe some others I'm forgetting. Why? Because if they are town, they will be either shot dead, or lynching the entire scumteam soon enough. If they are still alive by D3 there has to be a very very ironclad reason, or they're scum.

Most of these are generally caught out as scum well before D3, though, because they don't have the same quality of posts as scum as they do as town and are thereby caught (not saying I can recognize a Sandroba or Foolishness scum on D1, but other players can and have).

Everybody else could be making case after case on a townie without looking anything other than wrong, except for how they make cases, how they pressure people and how they act and react throughout the game. If you get mislynched as a townie, it is almost always your own fault, for not adequately establishing your innocence
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
February 21 2013 23:52 GMT
#52
I guess I just have an issue with the phrasing. A 1:1 trade is always beneficial to town. I've always thought that a townie should not really be worried about his own potential mislynch, more concerned about outing scum, whereas scum always have the possibility of their own lynch at the front of their mind. I think it was Salem mafia? A big reason I kept going after one scum in the game was because he was absolutely obsessed with defending himself, I ignored all the little accusations people were flinging at me because it would have just been a distraction to address it and ultimately it paid off.
RIP Aaliyah
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 08:50:33
February 22 2013 08:46 GMT
#53
I determine by a case by case basis whether I reply to a case or question. Usually I find answering a direct question fruitful because it allows the person who is possibly focused on me to move on. How they react to my answers can also reveal something about them; mafia is generally less likely to concede that the answers make sense and allow them alter their (fake) read.

What you choose to ignore may also depend on the state of the game. For instance early on it's usually a good idea to answer almost everything as it keeps the thread moving. Later on when there is a lot of evidence to shift through and few people are suspecting you it makes more sense to ignore questions that you deem pointless.

Another thing to consider is that you usually want answers to your own questions. Is it reasonable to expect people to answer your questions if you never answer theirs? Obviously no one thinks their own questions are pointless.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
February 22 2013 12:11 GMT
#54
if you don't find the need to explain your motives (i.e. why you are pushing certain players) then how will you convince others that you are right?

You can have correct reads, but if no one thinks you are town then you will never get your reads lynched. You need to both have good scumhunting skills and good town-establishment skills. It's not one or the other generally.

Obviously for new players the best thing for them to focus on at the beginning is to establish innocence, because it's easier. Both of these things are hard for scum to do because they're interrelated when you're trying to kill townies on purpose.

Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
February 22 2013 12:29 GMT
#55
Can someone explain to me how you establish townyness by some means other than honestly searching for scum?
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
February 22 2013 12:32 GMT
#56
On February 22 2013 21:29 Aquanim wrote:
Can someone explain to me how you establish townyness by some means other than honestly searching for scum?


consistent interest and an attempt to understand the game with an open thought process.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 12:39:16
February 22 2013 12:38 GMT
#57
On February 22 2013 21:29 Aquanim wrote:
Can someone explain to me how you establish townyness by some means other than honestly searching for scum?


I would argue that there's not much more than that, but:

getting people to lynch the people you think are scum.

Searching for scum is all well and good but a lot of the times what separates the townies from the scum (who may even be bussing) is the fact that townies generally put a lot of effort into actually getting their ideas heard. Scum will say some names and often won't actively push their ideas to the forefront of discussion.
Aquanim
Profile Joined November 2012
Australia2849 Posts
February 22 2013 12:42 GMT
#58
On February 22 2013 21:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
You can have correct reads, but if no one thinks you are town then you will never get your reads lynched.


On February 22 2013 21:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
[You get people to think you're town by] getting people to lynch the people you think are scum.


I understand what you're trying to say (I think) but these two seem pretty circular
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
February 22 2013 12:56 GMT
#59
Just shout at them until they lynch who you want to shut you up
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
February 22 2013 13:00 GMT
#60
People underestimate the power of the shout.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
February 22 2013 13:09 GMT
#61
On February 22 2013 21:42 Aquanim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2013 21:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
You can have correct reads, but if no one thinks you are town then you will never get your reads lynched.


Show nested quote +
On February 22 2013 21:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
[You get people to think you're town by] getting people to lynch the people you think are scum.


I understand what you're trying to say (I think) but these two seem pretty circular


it is circular, yeah, because they're closely related.

you can have good reads and not appear town. Just ask marv for all the times he's been right and people have still wanted to kill him.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
February 22 2013 13:18 GMT
#62
Surely you're a better example of that my friend. I've not been mislynched in my last 20 town games ^^

And Fruity was bloody unlucky :/
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
February 22 2013 13:19 GMT
#63
nah generally if any one of my reads is right people don't want to kill me lol

which doesn't happen too often :p
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
February 22 2013 13:19 GMT
#64
On February 22 2013 22:18 marvellosity wrote:
Surely you're a better example of that my friend. I've not been mislynched in my last 20 town games ^^

And Fruity was bloody unlucky :/


...mtg ii
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17982 Posts
February 22 2013 13:21 GMT
#65
Only reason you weren't "lynched" in MTG mini mafia is because of a host-save
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
February 22 2013 13:23 GMT
#66
I'll take it how I get it. Like BC got lynched with one more vote than me or something in LVIII, or a blueclaim saved me in Paranoia. Besides, we were lynching my scumread as part of a "double-lynch" in MTG, just had the good fortune that he died first :D

Anyway, we (by we, I mean I) don't bring up such nitty gritty details, they detract from the grand canvas.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 13:37:00
February 22 2013 13:35 GMT
#67
On February 22 2013 21:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
if you don't find the need to explain your motives (i.e. why you are pushing certain players) then how will you convince others that you are right?

You can have correct reads, but if no one thinks you are town then you will never get your reads lynched. You need to both have good scumhunting skills and good town-establishment skills. It's not one or the other generally.

Obviously for new players the best thing for them to focus on at the beginning is to establish innocence, because it's easier. Both of these things are hard for scum to do because they're interrelated when you're trying to kill townies on purpose.


having correct or rather reasonable reads => you're town.

The other way around usually doesn't work. For all I care there's people I'd rather sheep with knowledge of them being mafia then with knowledge of them being town :p
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
February 22 2013 19:26 GMT
#68
On February 21 2013 17:08 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I kinda hate this idea of "establishing innocence". I always end up butting heads with newer players because I don't feel the need to always explain my motives or elaborate extensively on every point I make and they immediately assume I'm mafia or want to really aggressively pressure me for it. I understand the idea that it's ultimately bad for mafia to have to explain everything they think and do but I ultimately think a lot of the information people want from you is really useless.

Isn't scumhunting enough? Is it really productive for anyone to waste posts on trying to sell themselves as a townie? That's what the mafia is trying to do. I usually look at the players who are trying the hardest to "prove" their innocence as immediately suspicious because it suggests some kind of paranoia or inherent guilt and it makes analysis a lot easier. A good townie will make themselves apparent through their cases and scumhunting, that should be enough for anyone.


It works for me. It gives other townies 1 less suspect to find scum, thus it's good for everybody. It makes people sheep me easier as well
If I have good reads then everybody wins, wohoo! (except scum that is)

On February 22 2013 02:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2013 22:28 Acrofales wrote:
Don't you agree that your job as a scumhunter is made easier by townies looking ridiculously townie? If that is so, then don't you agree that other people's scumhunting jobs are made easier by YOU looking ridiculously townie?

That's why establishing your innocence is important

Not to mention: if people have painted a target on your head and are gunning for your lynch, isn't it important to show them why that is a mistake, and they should lynch a scum instead of a townie?

If your method for establishing your innocence is by clear analysis and catching scum, then that's great, but there are other ways (and ways for scum to spoof it all)!


No. I try not to focus too much on defending myself against accusations because it's wasting time I could be using to try to oust scum. Unless someones case is actually gaining traction, I (in theory, assuming I don't get emotional) would prefer to just ignore it. .


Establishing your innocence isn't "defend myself against accusations". If someone accused you to begin with (for you to have the need to defend yourself), then you didn't actually "establish your innocence".

On February 22 2013 22:18 marvellosity wrote:
Surely you're a better example of that my friend. I've not been mislynched in my last 20 town games ^^

And Fruity was bloody unlucky :/


I haven't been misslynched as town either my dear

(I don't count Bang Bang II since that was just a random dude shooting me!)

On February 22 2013 22:35 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 22 2013 21:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
if you don't find the need to explain your motives (i.e. why you are pushing certain players) then how will you convince others that you are right?

You can have correct reads, but if no one thinks you are town then you will never get your reads lynched. You need to both have good scumhunting skills and good town-establishment skills. It's not one or the other generally.

Obviously for new players the best thing for them to focus on at the beginning is to establish innocence, because it's easier. Both of these things are hard for scum to do because they're interrelated when you're trying to kill townies on purpose.


having correct or rather reasonable reads => you're town.

The other way around usually doesn't work. For all I care there's people I'd rather sheep with knowledge of them being mafia then with knowledge of them being town :p


This is somewhat true

If you see Mattchew FoSing someone, then sheep him. If Matt's town it's likely he's right and the guy is scum, if Matt is scum he's 100% bussing his buddy.
Win-win
DoctorHelvetica
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States15034 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-22 20:12:13
February 22 2013 20:09 GMT
#69
I still think the hardest thing to do as scum is make a logical and convincing case against town for the whole game. If you're not establishing your innocence by scumhunting then what exactly are you doing? If a player is doing everything but scumhunting but appearing "pro-town" at the same time my first thought is that they need to be lynched or vig'd because they are probably scum

very easy for mafia to make a lot of empty posts and pressure/ask useless questions to seem like theyre trying to do something. much harder as the game progresses (in theory, assuming town does their work) to make their cases seem better than cases against actual scum.

as far as needing to respond to every single question or accusation in order to establish cred that's just stupid. every time i always have like 3-4 people pointing a finger at me (usually newer players) and all the little pressures and dumb questions distract me and i end up focusing on defending myself instead of thinking about what everyone else is doing. unless that pressure gains traction, why should I even address it? there is no reason everyone needs to know what im thinking at any given moment, that's not the point of the game. the point of the game is to lynch scum.
RIP Aaliyah
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
February 23 2013 04:38 GMT
#70
I personally don't think it's that hard to come up with cases against townies as scum, given that a lot of cases are based upon sound logic but fail to take into account everything in context of the game and its players.

Creating a logically consistent case is pretty easy, the hard part is staying away from the blame when the target dies.

If you are being attacked as town then you do, IMO, need to do something to minimize the suspicion. You're thinking of the game too selfishly. You might know you are town and so you have no interest in responding to anything that is thrown at you. Many good townies might see this as a sign that you are town (perhaps the reason you feel you get attacked by newer players) but if you are believed to be a good scum player it probably means nothing at all with respect to your alignment.

You certainly don't need to respond to everything, but I think it would be pretty dumb to ignore everyone who is attacking you. As you say, the point of the game is to lynch scum, so if you believe that any of your accusers are town, then you have an incentive to get them off of you ASAP so that you can help each other find the actual scum.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-23 09:38:21
February 23 2013 09:31 GMT
#71
On February 23 2013 13:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
I personally don't think it's that hard to come up with cases against townies as scum, given that a lot of cases are based upon sound logic but fail to take into account everything in context of the game and its players.

Creating a logically consistent case is pretty easy, the hard part is staying away from the blame when the target dies.

[...]

Agree. There's so much bullshit going on in games. You just have to forget about being mafia, focus on said bullshit and explain why this particular set of bullshit has mafia motivation behind it's back and you're good. And while doing that keep asking yourself what kind of bullshit your townie-self would just ignore and go after everything that's left.

The existence of mislynches proves the fact that there's plenty of people who look blatantly scummy without actually being mafia at all or noone would ever end up being mislynched at all. + Show Spoiler [my approach] +
I usually don't ever try to explain why someone is mafia, neither as mafia nor as town. That's impossible to do without knowledge of their pm. I try to explain why "being mafia" is the way more likely explanation given a specific behavior. You just won't ever be able to prove someone to be mafia at all, so don't even bother trying and aim for what's possible. Makes it way easier for when you're playing mafia as well:
Don't try to explain why someone is mafia, that's not possible, you even know them to be town. Try to explain why said person looks scummy and as already mentioned, there's plenty of people looking scummy for whatever reason in every single game.
You don't even have to lie / make up some bullshit that way.


The hardest thing (for me) is having enough motivation to actually read the thread when you rolled mafia. Once that base is covered there really should be no problem whatsoever.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Chezinu
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States7447 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-23 13:52:27
February 23 2013 13:45 GMT
#72
Cool, I never saw this guide before. Love the intro! As for the strategies.. I favor unorthodox methods...

Edit: reading the town rules was hilarious, I couldn't stop laughing. Seeing that I have broken every rule! Only sane townies play by the town rules.
lol, clueless in The Prism!
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
February 23 2013 15:20 GMT
#73
Thanks, i think this finally informed me of how mafia actually works, and interested me enough to get me to try it.

Whens the next newbie game? or is it possible for a newbie to join a normal game or even a themed game without pissing everyone off / having no clue?

Anyone help me with this? XD
Useless wet fish.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
February 23 2013 15:24 GMT
#74
On February 24 2013 00:20 Capped wrote:
Thanks, i think this finally informed me of how mafia actually works, and interested me enough to get me to try it.

Whens the next newbie game? or is it possible for a newbie to join a normal game or even a themed game without pissing everyone off / having no clue?

Anyone help me with this? XD


Next newbie is here
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=399518
Cool Flavor :D
Just assume that mafia takes a ton of time to play and you will be alright.
No gg, No skill.
Capped
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom7236 Posts
February 23 2013 16:14 GMT
#75
^ Well ive got a shit-ton of time currently..so i guess its a matchmade in heaven, thanks for the info!
Useless wet fish.
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
February 23 2013 16:22 GMT
#76
On February 24 2013 00:20 Capped wrote:
Thanks, i think this finally informed me of how mafia actually works, and interested me enough to get me to try it.

Whens the next newbie game? or is it possible for a newbie to join a normal game or even a themed game without pissing everyone off / having no clue?

Anyone help me with this? XD


You can join a normal game without playing in a newbie, just read the rules and try to understand a bit of whats going on before hand
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
Namunelbo
Profile Joined June 2012
501 Posts
April 14 2013 03:52 GMT
#77
I've become so addicted to this game, instead of playing SC2 I spend all my time playing this game on the Arcade section...

I'm looking more for a 'live' version of the game, aside from the Arcade and forum version.
Maybe an IRC version? I visited the IRC TL-Mafia channel but seems to be empty most of the time.
I remember reading about other IRC channels, but not sure how active they are.

I may try the forum version in the future, but usually it seems to take a few days to complete, and for me a more 'live' version would be more suitable right now (ranging from minutes to hour).

Suggestions?

Also, I'm still relatively new to this game and the forum / reddit / written version of the game seems to be more organized / professional / methodical than the one in the Arcade, that from time to time there are those games that grind your gears...

Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-14 04:10:47
April 14 2013 04:09 GMT
#78
I think Epic Mafia is more "live". Check them out as it is some kind of IRC based thing if I remember.

edit: Arcade version?
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Namunelbo
Profile Joined June 2012
501 Posts
April 14 2013 04:41 GMT
#79
On April 14 2013 13:09 Ace wrote:
I think Epic Mafia is more "live". Check them out as it is some kind of IRC based thing if I remember.

edit: Arcade version?


Thanks, will do.

Arcade, as in Arcade section (for minigames) in SC2, below 'Custom Games' section.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 14 2013 04:53 GMT
#80
ah ok. I never bought or played SC2 so I wouldn't know it
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
John Matrix
Profile Joined October 2012
163 Posts
April 14 2013 15:49 GMT
#81
On April 14 2013 12:52 Namunelbo wrote:
I've become so addicted to this game, instead of playing SC2 I spend all my time playing this game on the Arcade section...

I'm looking more for a 'live' version of the game, aside from the Arcade and forum version.
Maybe an IRC version? I visited the IRC TL-Mafia channel but seems to be empty most of the time.
I remember reading about other IRC channels, but not sure how active they are.

I may try the forum version in the future, but usually it seems to take a few days to complete, and for me a more 'live' version would be more suitable right now (ranging from minutes to hour).

Suggestions?

Also, I'm still relatively new to this game and the forum / reddit / written version of the game seems to be more organized / professional / methodical than the one in the Arcade, that from time to time there are those games that grind your gears...



Easiest way to find games is http://epicmafia.com

There is an IRC mafia game channel that used to be somewhat active on gamesurge I think.

The best quick games happen in #TLMafia on Quakenet, but sadly we only play very occasionally, so you'd probably have to watch this forum for updates (someone usually bumps the IRC thread when we're about to play) or just idle in our channel.

Namunelbo
Profile Joined June 2012
501 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-17 02:06:36
April 17 2013 01:44 GMT
#82
I have another question, not sure if ask it here or in the 'How to improve' thread... Since I already bumped this thread I'll ask here.

I checked the Epicmafia website, I think the problem with faster / live games is the little amount of time you have, same with the SC2 version.

I recently played a game (SC2 version), and there was a game where the town was following a citizen on the decisions about who to lynch.
Turns out this 'citizen' had about 70-80% of accuracy on naming mafia 'suspects'... This didn't caught my attention until the game finished where the roles are revealed, which I checked the replay immediately looking for clues or steps this player took...

I know you can't get much clues from the game's replay, and probably this player has a lot more experience than me, but how in the world does a citizen guess correctly who was the Godfather at the #1 night (this may not be so accurate, since he voted to lynch because the actual Godfather was using citizen's real bnet ID), and the rest of suspects with 70% - 80% accuracy considering his role and how the town on that game turned out (town was pretty quiet, mostly random lynching or following the loudest voice, which was him with the accusations, also sheriff was killed early stage but helped to name a mafia suspect, leaving only one last mafia and one neutral-killing, but the other 2 investigators were mostly quiet throughout the game)...

Was it maybe a pre-made setup, or experience acquired from long term playing on how this particular game tends to 'randomize' its roles? Worst scenario of all, all luck?
Or is there a genuine way to have this percentage of accuracy purely from skill and improvement, even with such roles as citizen?

With these kind of experiences I think it's just better for me to dive in to the forum mafia as soon as possible...
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 17 2013 02:25 GMT
#83
It's impossible to answer without knowing the game setup. However from my experience a 70-80% accuracy rate of catching Scum is ridiculously high and impossible to measure. There are many things that go into what makes a good player and "catching Scum" probably isn't the best mark of one, but even the best Scumhunters won't catch Scum even half the time imo. A mark that high probably means he/she abused the setup or was far, far above the level of everyone playing.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 17 2013 04:33 GMT
#84
On April 17 2013 11:25 Ace wrote:
It's impossible to answer without knowing the game setup. However from my experience a 70-80% accuracy rate of catching Scum is ridiculously high and impossible to measure. There are many things that go into what makes a good player and "catching Scum" probably isn't the best mark of one, but even the best Scumhunters won't catch Scum even half the time imo. A mark that high probably means he/she abused the setup or was far, far above the level of everyone playing.

Well with UMS Mafia,
You can just guess based on certain things that each player does. Ive done the lead town as cit and just random lynching dudes that turn out to be scum. Its probably just lucky.
No gg, No skill.
Namunelbo
Profile Joined June 2012
501 Posts
April 17 2013 09:20 GMT
#85
On April 17 2013 13:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 11:25 Ace wrote:
It's impossible to answer without knowing the game setup. However from my experience a 70-80% accuracy rate of catching Scum is ridiculously high and impossible to measure. There are many things that go into what makes a good player and "catching Scum" probably isn't the best mark of one, but even the best Scumhunters won't catch Scum even half the time imo. A mark that high probably means he/she abused the setup or was far, far above the level of everyone playing.

Well with UMS Mafia,
You can just guess based on certain things that each player does. Ive done the lead town as cit and just random lynching dudes that turn out to be scum. Its probably just lucky.


I just rewatched the replay, and most likely that seems to be the case...

That and accusing those who dare not speak as possible scums or those who defended the Godfather in the previous trial.

I guess experience from long term playing the UMS version contributes this accuracy, it just surprises me with how little clues and how much empty talk there tends to be, he still managed to pinpoint them down... Not to mention how little investigators contributed to that game, and how easily he decided on who to trust.

I guess this version is not suitable for me... I will try Epicmafia for a while before joining the forum version and see how it goes.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 17 2013 13:05 GMT
#86
On April 17 2013 18:20 Namunelbo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 13:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
On April 17 2013 11:25 Ace wrote:
It's impossible to answer without knowing the game setup. However from my experience a 70-80% accuracy rate of catching Scum is ridiculously high and impossible to measure. There are many things that go into what makes a good player and "catching Scum" probably isn't the best mark of one, but even the best Scumhunters won't catch Scum even half the time imo. A mark that high probably means he/she abused the setup or was far, far above the level of everyone playing.

Well with UMS Mafia,
You can just guess based on certain things that each player does. Ive done the lead town as cit and just random lynching dudes that turn out to be scum. Its probably just lucky.


I just rewatched the replay, and most likely that seems to be the case...

That and accusing those who dare not speak as possible scums or those who defended the Godfather in the previous trial.

I guess experience from long term playing the UMS version contributes this accuracy, it just surprises me with how little clues and how much empty talk there tends to be, he still managed to pinpoint them down... Not to mention how little investigators contributed to that game, and how easily he decided on who to trust.

I guess this version is not suitable for me... I will try Epicmafia for a while before joining the forum version and see how it goes.

Its an arcade game, you dont really need to think all that much.

I came from UMS to here and I find forum mafia much more enjoyable cause you can get better, a lot better and its really fun
No gg, No skill.
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
November 25 2014 03:00 GMT
#87
pazi

throwing me off thinking oats posted
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Willard42
Profile Joined May 2014
United States54 Posts
January 13 2015 15:49 GMT
#88
Okay, my big question (and I apologize if this was answered already) but what is the proper way to use the abilities that certain roles get (e.g. the doctor saving somebody, or even a mafia killing another player)?

I would love to join some of these games, but this one mechanical aspect is completely holding me back, so any help would be appreciated.
"Don't Panic"
IAmRobik
Profile Joined January 2014
United States5878 Posts
January 13 2015 15:58 GMT
#89
If you're doc, you save who you think is most townie who you believe mafia will target for a night kill
If you're vigi, you shoot whoever you think is most scummy.
If you're cop, you check whoever you want

Join a newbie game. A mentor will be provided to help you out, regardless of what role you get!
Willard42
Profile Joined May 2014
United States54 Posts
January 13 2015 16:03 GMT
#90
Well thank you for your help, but I think I sort of mixed up what I was trying to say.

I guess I'm just asking how do you actually type out these actions, because typing them in the general chat would obviously give yourself away.

I apologize for my general lack of knowledge, I'm more of an observer on these forms, rather than a poster
"Don't Panic"
IAmRobik
Profile Joined January 2014
United States5878 Posts
January 13 2015 16:13 GMT
#91
On January 14 2015 01:03 Willard42 wrote:
Well thank you for your help, but I think I sort of mixed up what I was trying to say.

I guess I'm just asking how do you actually type out these actions, because typing them in the general chat would obviously give yourself away.

I apologize for my general lack of knowledge, I'm more of an observer on these forms, rather than a poster

Oh...you send them to the game host in a private message. EZPZ Or they'll make a QT for you and you can make your night actions there.
Willard42
Profile Joined May 2014
United States54 Posts
January 13 2015 16:15 GMT
#92
Okay, thank you so much c:
"Don't Panic"
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
January 29 2015 03:02 GMT
#93
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/370487-newbie-mini-mafia-xxviii?page=64#1262

Just want to have a place where I can (hopefully) remember where to find it.
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
jocker007
Profile Joined July 2015
1 Post
Last Edited: 2015-07-07 01:05:29
July 07 2015 00:47 GMT
#94
--- Nuked ---
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
July 24 2015 01:33 GMT
#95
This nuked fool keeps throwing me. That name is so similar to my old handle like srs delete his post or what?!? HIJOLE!!!
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
NavVu Dondo
Profile Joined July 2015
1 Post
July 31 2015 20:21 GMT
#96
I'm sorry I'm new at team liquid... where do I find the forum?
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
August 03 2015 18:46 GMT
#97
On August 01 2015 05:21 NavVu Dondo wrote:
I'm sorry I'm new at team liquid... where do I find the forum?


The TL Frontpage, with articles, news, and links to posts and streams, is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/

The TL Forums page, with links to all of TL's forums, is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/

You can find the forum here for TL's Mafia-playing community here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/

If you're interested in Mafia, our active list of Mafia Games is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/174347-active-list-of-mafia-games

which will show you which games are running, which are open for signups, and which are coming up. right now a newbie game is running, and there will be a new one open for signups soon.

If you want to read some articles about how to play Mafia, they are here, at the TL Mafia Central Library:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/274334-tl-mafia-central-library
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