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Player Commentary - Mafia
kushm4sta
I think my comments from last game are still relevant - you don't need to post everything you are thinking! You have an active scum-style that I thoroughly enjoy, but you need to have a mental filter. Post only what you need to - posting everything on your mind (as scum OR town) is a really easy way to get yourself lynched. Everyone thinks of bad ideas when they play, but the good players are the ones that can filter their thoughts.
Leshrac
Be sure to post next time. Or show up really.
SDM
I'm going to keep this shorter, since we talked a lot in the QT. Again, great game, but there are many things you can improve on. Your posting appeared really emotionally detached in this game, and that's something you have to fix in your future scumgames if you want to survive into the endgame.
Regarding the D3 scumslips - I think you were trying to be a bit too fancy. That was a situation where you could have simply voted debears and everything would have been just fine. Last-minute scrambles are really dangerous for scum. You have to think things through and not post everything that comes to mind, or your mafia-mentality will begin to show. Oh, and sleep for more than 2 hours next time =D
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Someone fucked up the lock to the place where I live (I'm a student), so I couldn't get in. Since I had nothing better to do, I headed back to school and read the conclusion of the thread and the QTs.
I'll post my thought on this post by thrawn from the obs QT:
+ Show Spoiler +i'm kinda pissed that corrosion went ahead and made a post about wanting to leave and then dropped the no lynch vote without pming me first. saying you're going to ask for a replacement, voting no-lynch, and dropping a bunch of reads instead of just pming the host and not posting anymore is bad form. he basically wifom'd the crap out of the thread so he's gonna be a difficult guy to read, and then there's lesrah who has been completely impossible to read so that's 2 people that town can't really use as a part of their discussion. hopefully it will all come to a conclusion soon and they will either get replaced or modkilled/flipped before the deadline
As far as I'm concerned my first post says that I'm thinking about leaving, but it doesn't say that I'm planning to ask for a replacement. I was in fact thinking that since Lesrah hadn't been replaced yet, it was unlikely that someone would be available to replace me. I state that I'm going to discuss the situation with my coach (to try to find a reasonable solution).
The reason that I make a vote, is so I can avoid getting modkilled if I change my mind and keep playing anyway. I didn't try to find out if no-lynch is a valid way to vote. I thought that if it wasn't allowed, I would be notified so I could change the vote to myself (probably not good town play) or my biggest scumread.
The reason that I posted in the thread, is that I thought it might give town useful information in case they were planning to wait for me to address posts or if they were going to waste time asking me further questions that I expected not to answer.
I posted my reads because I thought some of them might be helpful to town. I also thought that my coach would discourage me from posting those reads if they shouldn't be posted (I didn't ask him directly. Maybe he didn't read my post in the thread).
I thought to myself that if a replacement couldn't be found, I'd stick around and vote and maybe try to make some posts now and then without putting a lot of time into it. I don't think that's how the game is supposed to be played though, so I did ask for a replacement between my initial post and the post containing my reads.
My motivations in those posts were to try to keep town as well informed as I could at that time, and to keep the options open in case you didn't have any readily available replacements for me. Does this alter your view of the situation, or do you still think it's bad form?
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I don't doubt that your intentions were good, but I think it's better to just ask for a replacement privately than to bring it up in the thread before it happens. If there was someone who was suspicious of you during that time (and there was) then when they see that you're leaving, pretty much everything you say after you first announce you might replace out serves as wifom. Plus, it's in the rules that you're supposed to resolve the issue with a host instead of continuing to post in the thread. So no, I don't think you intentionally did anything wrong, but I'd have preferred if you would have just kept all talk of replacing to private pms between me/your coach. I made that post in the heat of the moment while being a bit stressed about all the modkills and such.... sorry if it came off as a personal attack.
Not a big deal though, and I hope whatever situation caused you to ask for a replacement ended up working out ok. If you're interested and have the time then there's another newbie that just opened up!
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On October 10 2012 15:08 corrosion wrote:Someone fucked up the lock to the place where I live (I'm a student), so I couldn't get in. Since I had nothing better to do, I headed back to school and read the conclusion of the thread and the QTs. I'll post my thought on this post by thrawn from the obs QT: + Show Spoiler +i'm kinda pissed that corrosion went ahead and made a post about wanting to leave and then dropped the no lynch vote without pming me first. saying you're going to ask for a replacement, voting no-lynch, and dropping a bunch of reads instead of just pming the host and not posting anymore is bad form. he basically wifom'd the crap out of the thread so he's gonna be a difficult guy to read, and then there's lesrah who has been completely impossible to read so that's 2 people that town can't really use as a part of their discussion. hopefully it will all come to a conclusion soon and they will either get replaced or modkilled/flipped before the deadline As far as I'm concerned my first post says that I'm thinking about leaving, but it doesn't say that I'm planning to ask for a replacement. I was in fact thinking that since Lesrah hadn't been replaced yet, it was unlikely that someone would be available to replace me. I state that I'm going to discuss the situation with my coach (to try to find a reasonable solution). The reason that I make a vote, is so I can avoid getting modkilled if I change my mind and keep playing anyway. I didn't try to find out if no-lynch is a valid way to vote. I thought that if it wasn't allowed, I would be notified so I could change the vote to myself (probably not good town play) or my biggest scumread. The reason that I posted in the thread, is that I thought it might give town useful information in case they were planning to wait for me to address posts or if they were going to waste time asking me further questions that I expected not to answer. I posted my reads because I thought some of them might be helpful to town. I also thought that my coach would discourage me from posting those reads if they shouldn't be posted (I didn't ask him directly. Maybe he didn't read my post in the thread). I thought to myself that if a replacement couldn't be found, I'd stick around and vote and maybe try to make some posts now and then without putting a lot of time into it. I don't think that's how the game is supposed to be played though, so I did ask for a replacement between my initial post and the post containing my reads. My motivations in those posts were to try to keep town as well informed as I could at that time, and to keep the options open in case you didn't have any readily available replacements for me. Does this alter your view of the situation, or do you still think it's bad form?
You did great. If not for you, I would have had a much harder time finding SS town in n4
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Very nice write up, Hapa. Just wanted to point out one thing...
On October 10 2012 13:30 Hapahauli wrote:But after talking about how he didn't mind a no-lynch, after the town actually no-lynches, he does a complete emotional 180: He posts this seconds after the no-lynch: he shouldn't mind this result judging from his previous postings, yet all of a sudden he cares? Scumtell here.
This wasn't wrt the no-lynch, but to Stutters getting modkilled. I was completely surpised and I could've easily gotten modkilled myself here.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I would like to note that SDM's bus of kush isn't as 'obvious' as it may seem in hindsight.
Especially in newbie games, scum players have a really hard time bussing players decisively (or at all). And even in relation to non-newbie games, the early timing of the bus was impressive and something many scum players aren't capable of.
Good scum play is often fast thinking and decisive, like that bus. The beautiful flip side to this is SDM's actions at the no-lynch where he was confused and indecisive and got caught for it.
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On October 10 2012 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
I would like to note that SDM's bus of kush isn't as 'obvious' as it may seem in hindsight.
Especially in newbie games, scum players have a really hard time bussing players decisively (or at all). And even in relation to non-newbie games, the early timing of the bus was impressive and something many scum players aren't capable of.
Good scum play is often fast thinking and decisive, like that bus. The beautiful flip side to this is SDM's actions at the no-lynch where he was confused and indecisive and got caught for it.
Yeah, my bus probably wasn't too bad. After I get caught doing something really stupid d3 it's easy to go back and make up a good scum rationale for everything I did. I feel like it's equal part logic and confirmation bias, kind of like how Debears and Boson interpreted my absence from the thread:
1) Debears used it to argue I was really scared
2) Boson used it to argue I was really confident
They make the same observation, their analyses of it are polar opposite but their conclusions are still the same: I'm scum. In reality I never avoided the thread on purpose (at least not for the long stretches of time in question).
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@ Marv
Perhaps I worded that section of the post-game commentary a bit too strongly, however, the point remains that SDM's "decisive vote" of kush should not have been viewed as strongly townie. It's much better to go toward the null side of things in that situation.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On October 11 2012 00:17 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
I would like to note that SDM's bus of kush isn't as 'obvious' as it may seem in hindsight.
Especially in newbie games, scum players have a really hard time bussing players decisively (or at all). And even in relation to non-newbie games, the early timing of the bus was impressive and something many scum players aren't capable of.
Good scum play is often fast thinking and decisive, like that bus. The beautiful flip side to this is SDM's actions at the no-lynch where he was confused and indecisive and got caught for it. Yeah, my bus probably wasn't too bad. After I get caught doing something really stupid d3 it's easy to go back and make up a good scum rationale for everything I did. I feel like it's equal part logic and confirmation bias, kind of like how Debears and Boson interpreted my absence from the thread: 1) Debears used it to argue I was really scared2) Boson used it to argue I was really confidentThey make the same observation, their analyses of it are polar opposite but their conclusions are still the same: I'm scum. In reality I never avoided the thread on purpose (at least not for the long stretches of time in question).
Your play on kush could have been done by scum or towny; the problem for the other townies was that they couldn't see the scum perspective for a long time.
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On October 11 2012 00:20 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 00:17 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 10 2012 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
I would like to note that SDM's bus of kush isn't as 'obvious' as it may seem in hindsight.
Especially in newbie games, scum players have a really hard time bussing players decisively (or at all). And even in relation to non-newbie games, the early timing of the bus was impressive and something many scum players aren't capable of.
Good scum play is often fast thinking and decisive, like that bus. The beautiful flip side to this is SDM's actions at the no-lynch where he was confused and indecisive and got caught for it. Yeah, my bus probably wasn't too bad. After I get caught doing something really stupid d3 it's easy to go back and make up a good scum rationale for everything I did. I feel like it's equal part logic and confirmation bias, kind of like how Debears and Boson interpreted my absence from the thread: 1) Debears used it to argue I was really scared2) Boson used it to argue I was really confidentThey make the same observation, their analyses of it are polar opposite but their conclusions are still the same: I'm scum. In reality I never avoided the thread on purpose (at least not for the long stretches of time in question). Your play on kush could have been done by scum or towny; the problem for the other townies was that they couldn't see the scum perspective for a long time.
Yeah, realizing they had handed out unjustified townie cred was crucial.
Kind of like how I got townie cred in XXVI from voting Stutters instead of Cubu (flipped green) d1, without them even knowing the alignment of Stutters.
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On October 11 2012 00:17 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2012 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
I would like to note that SDM's bus of kush isn't as 'obvious' as it may seem in hindsight.
Especially in newbie games, scum players have a really hard time bussing players decisively (or at all). And even in relation to non-newbie games, the early timing of the bus was impressive and something many scum players aren't capable of.
Good scum play is often fast thinking and decisive, like that bus. The beautiful flip side to this is SDM's actions at the no-lynch where he was confused and indecisive and got caught for it. Yeah, my bus probably wasn't too bad. After I get caught doing something really stupid d3 it's easy to go back and make up a good scum rationale for everything I did. I feel like it's equal part logic and confirmation bias, kind of like how Debears and Boson interpreted my absence from the thread: 1) Debears used it to argue I was really scared2) Boson used it to argue I was really confidentThey make the same observation, their analyses of it are polar opposite but their conclusions are still the same: I'm scum. In reality I never avoided the thread on purpose (at least not for the long stretches of time in question).
I wasn't (at least intentionally) saying that you were scared. I found it awkward (if you were town) to suddenly disappear after a giant amount of confusion without explaining why you did what you did, especially when Z-Bo called you out for bad town play.
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And yeah the whole town cred for the vote is just inexperience.
I figured early on that the first 3 voting for kush (first 2 considering darth revoked his vote) wouldn't have decided to bus kush so early since kush could play off it as his meta
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On October 11 2012 01:55 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 00:17 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 10 2012 22:19 marvellosity wrote:
I would like to note that SDM's bus of kush isn't as 'obvious' as it may seem in hindsight.
Especially in newbie games, scum players have a really hard time bussing players decisively (or at all). And even in relation to non-newbie games, the early timing of the bus was impressive and something many scum players aren't capable of.
Good scum play is often fast thinking and decisive, like that bus. The beautiful flip side to this is SDM's actions at the no-lynch where he was confused and indecisive and got caught for it. Yeah, my bus probably wasn't too bad. After I get caught doing something really stupid d3 it's easy to go back and make up a good scum rationale for everything I did. I feel like it's equal part logic and confirmation bias, kind of like how Debears and Boson interpreted my absence from the thread: 1) Debears used it to argue I was really scared2) Boson used it to argue I was really confidentThey make the same observation, their analyses of it are polar opposite but their conclusions are still the same: I'm scum. In reality I never avoided the thread on purpose (at least not for the long stretches of time in question). I wasn't (at least intentionally) saying that you were scared. I found it awkward (if you were town) to suddenly disappear after a giant amount of confusion without explaining why you did what you did, especially when Z-Bo called you out for bad town play.
That's a fair observation actually. Maybe they're not as contradictory as I fist thought. It just pissed me off a little bit that all three times I was absent from the thread 20h+ it was used as an argument for me being scum, while whether I'm town or scum this will always happen. The timing when you pointed it out it was pretty legitimate though.
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Sonics bust was real obvious. He even prefaced it with "trying to make a case on kush is like trying to kick open an already open door."
Like he was trying to get in on that suspicion so bad even though he had nothing to add to it.
ALSO IMO such a big scumtell was how he tried to nk the most obvious person d1. This is such a bad idea but SDM did it because it worked for him in 26 when he NK thrawn, the obvious town leader, N1. He did the same exact thing here, except it didn't work. Town should have noticed IMO.
Really good job SDM even if you did cause my first loss 
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On October 11 2012 14:11 kushm4sta wrote:Sonics bust was real obvious. He even prefaced it with "trying to make a case on kush is like trying to kick open an already open door." Like he was trying to get in on that suspicion so bad even though he had nothing to add to it. ALSO IMO such a big scumtell was how he tried to nk the most obvious person d1. This is such a bad idea but SDM did it because it worked for him in 26 when he NK thrawn, the obvious town leader, N1. He did the same exact thing here, except it didn't work. Town should have noticed IMO. Really good job SDM even if you did cause my first loss
You sure like to gloat don't you...
It was not obvious, and he did not cause your first loss. Analyzing NK's to find suspects is pointless, also.
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On October 11 2012 14:36 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 14:11 kushm4sta wrote:Sonics bust was real obvious. He even prefaced it with "trying to make a case on kush is like trying to kick open an already open door." Like he was trying to get in on that suspicion so bad even though he had nothing to add to it. ALSO IMO such a big scumtell was how he tried to nk the most obvious person d1. This is such a bad idea but SDM did it because it worked for him in 26 when he NK thrawn, the obvious town leader, N1. He did the same exact thing here, except it didn't work. Town should have noticed IMO. Really good job SDM even if you did cause my first loss You sure like to gloat don't you... It was not obvious, and he did not cause your first loss. Analyzing NK's to find suspects is pointless, also.
I don't think this is gloating.
I dind't mean my loss was SDM's fault. Scum LVP definitely goes to me lol.
Also i would have seen that NK and I would know it was SDM instantly I think.
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On October 11 2012 14:42 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2012 14:36 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 11 2012 14:11 kushm4sta wrote:Sonics bust was real obvious. He even prefaced it with "trying to make a case on kush is like trying to kick open an already open door." Like he was trying to get in on that suspicion so bad even though he had nothing to add to it. ALSO IMO such a big scumtell was how he tried to nk the most obvious person d1. This is such a bad idea but SDM did it because it worked for him in 26 when he NK thrawn, the obvious town leader, N1. He did the same exact thing here, except it didn't work. Town should have noticed IMO. Really good job SDM even if you did cause my first loss You sure like to gloat don't you... It was not obvious, and he did not cause your first loss. Analyzing NK's to find suspects is pointless, also. I don't think this is gloating. I dind't mean my loss was SDM's fault. Scum LVP definitely goes to me lol. Also i would have seen that NK and I would know it was SDM instantly I think.
Wow you didn't insult me, there is hope for you yet!
It came off to me as gloating, because it might have been easy for you who already knew his alignment, but when you are townie you have no idea of things and everything just seems hella scummy
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EPT
