Responsibility Mafia!

On December 20 2011 07:55 Ver wrote:


verbally "half" commit=

"rol are you playing in my game?"

"okay ill play"

On December 20 2011 15:30 L wrote:
Alright, straight off the bat people are saying that we need good posts.

No shit.

Not only is the concept of the game surrounding the idea that poor play will be punished, but there's also the notion that we've got relatively few players. in the game. 5 to 15 or so. This means that best case scenario, we can win day 5 through lynches alone, but that's a rather long timeframe to close out a game. So poor play seems to be some form of game accelerant, and the 'poorer' the play, the less in our favor it seems to be.

So! What do we do? Post with content and condense your points. Keep your short posts to yourself and clump them up to make substantive comments. I'd say that posts between 6 and 15 lines are large enough to be substantive, but short enough to be read. But that shit is obvious. There's a bigger question here, however, which is what we're going to do with the first vote.

RNG is probably the worst possible idea; gives us next to zero information regarding how people argue and its practically an excuse for people to not post anything because there's no element of responsibility attached to it. Either way, we're going to want ideas down on the table asap. And not like dicks, either. Cut it out bum/prplhz.

On December 20 2011 14:09 bumatlarge wrote:


Why wouldn't you be serious? RNG is when there is an impasse in the first day votes, and when there is no "no-lynch" option. I'm sure just mentioning RNG first nets me some responsibilty points.

That's pretty good. From now on, all talk about someone provoking what Ver has warned us about has an arbitrary amount of "Responsibility". I have a tiny bit of Responsibility at the moment. I think for asking such a question VE, regardless of your true intentions, also nets you some responsibility. I think RoL has very responisibity at the moment, unless there is a Captain Obvious role.

On December 20 2011 21:39 GMarshal wrote:
quote fail.
Lets try again



A hydra is an account shared by two players, in this case SamuelLJackson shared by Curu and Sandroba. They are, of course the ideal target for a day one lynch! As they have the issue of being extremely difficult to read, because of the two heads.

##Vote: SamuelLJackson

Also, as much as I love Chezinu, is anyone up for either policy lynching him or teaching me how the hell you get a grasp on his alignment? I enjoy his insanity, but its hardly conducive to figuring out his alignment.

On December 21 2011 02:25 syllogism wrote:

It was a response to RebirthOfLeGenD, who seemed to be advocating not claiming, ever

On December 20 2011 07:34 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
You know, I guess that's one way of getting me to actually play in your game Ver ;P
But I guess I did verbally half commit!
Don't start this until the 23rd though, or you won't see me posting until then.

On December 23 2011 14:06 Foolishness wrote:
noooo not RoL! You could have shot bugs!

LSB (12): wherebugsgo, SamuelLJackson, Jackal58, BloodyC0bbler, VisceraEyes, syllogism, -VisceraEyes, VisceraEyes, Palmar, Foolishness, bumatlarge, Liquid`Sheth, GMarshal, -Liquid`Sheth, GGQ, prplhz, -Foolishness, Mr. Wiggles

On December 23 2011 14:32 L wrote:
RE: Return

Alright, just got back from hours of crazy monkeysex. The night so far's been a gigantic, terrible cesspool as far as discussion quality goes. This is important:

Compare page 35, a typical night page: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384&currentpage=35
With
Page 17, a typical day page: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295384&currentpage=17

I'm going to go back and write up a list of who pushed for who from day 1, because if night 1 is any indication, there's going to be a flood of shitty one liner posts and we're not going to be getting anywhere otherwise.

RE: Daypost
Just refreshed
Oh, I was right about Palmar? Figures. Good lord I'm good at this game. Some notes:

GM seems to have lied about his target in order to lessen the chance that his shot would be medic'd/intercepted/roleblocked/whatevered. His target was probably one of his greens to throw off suspicion, so he probably didn't shoot Jackal. Palmar's shot was claimed.

This means GM either shot VisceraEyes or SamuelLJackson

I'm gonna go back and look through his post list to see if he gave any indication of suspicion with respect to either of them.

So, I've sucked horribly and the fact that two of my coworkers decided not to show today really cut into my TL time. Be that as it may, a list of my reads, for reference if I misfire, and for reference if I hit. Consider it my apology for not being able to crank out a full fledged analytic post full of pictures. If I live, well then, this should be something to hold me to.

On December 23 2011 14:39 kitaman27 wrote:


If that was the case, why in the world would GM not inform us who he really shot after the 12:00 deadline? He had around 20 minutes to share who he really would have shot, during a time which the scum team wouldn't be able to change their actions. Are you purposely trying to shift focus away from RoL or something?

@RoL,did you receive any notification of receiving a hit?

Oh, I guess I should announce that I'm shooting RoL. I'm not having a repeat of TMM where he gets away with being busy till the endgame. If I'm wrong then on my head be it (and by that I mean I'll be horribly dead). I know there isn't strong analysis supporting it, but I just spent 3 1/2 hours writing this post/coming up with who to shoot, and I just don't have time to flesh out a fully detailed analysis on anyone before the deadline.

On December 23 2011 14:48 Foolishness wrote:
I think RoL needs to go back and read the thread...

On December 23 2011 15:03 wherebugsgo wrote:
oh wait wtf RoL didn't die?

If GM shot at a townie does it mean he would kill both the townie and himself? Or would GM just die and the townie would live?

If GM would have simply died and RoL would've survived then we know nothing about RoL's alignment. However in the former case we have to lynch him.

On December 23 2011 15:11 Foolishness wrote:
I'm fairly confident that if GM lied about who he shot then he breadcrumbed the real victim in his post.

On December 23 2011 15:20 L wrote:
RE: People who argue like second graders.

Alright, here's a challenge to people who think GM did NOT lie about who he shot.

Give me a good explanation why every person who died, died. Do not bother trying to nitpick anything I've said until that point, otherwise it'll be pretty obvious that you're scum trying to muddy the waters because my analysis tells us WHO they shot, which allows us to go find out WHY.

I'll be waiting.

Annnnnd Go!

On December 22 2011 11:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Sheth I swear to Christ if you don't put your vote back on LSB something horrifying is going to happen to you overnight.

On December 23 2011 15:33 L wrote:
RE: Chaoser

Just to make your life harder, I just remembered this post:



A shot on a townie kills both.

You're claiming have mafia with 3 kp, still don't know why Jackal died and now can't explain why RoL isn't dead.

Try again.

On December 23 2011 16:32 L wrote:

RE: Bus driver

Bus driver's possible, but the end result with respect to who mafia killed doesn't change, so it becomes entirely irrelevant whether or not he lied, only whether or not he shot Visc. If anyone bussed Visc/RoL they're either delusional or mafia, which means mafia has a bus driver.

Which means this game is fucking broken. We can't call shots to confirm anyone. Roles like GM and LSB's can be rerouted with mafia knowledge of who's innocent to change a shot against mafia to a double townie kill. The only way of obtaining proper information about a shooter would be to have at least 3 people shoot during a night.

But that's kinda beyond the fact. A driver is an assured +3 for mafia with a single night action. I hope you recognize that even hatters typically don't have that much firepower (3 bomb hatters are a +2 swing and take the entire game to set up). The only night action I've seen do more than a 3 kill swing for a team was the Murrayitis plague, but there were at least five plague related roles acting across 3-4(5?) days in the game that had to engineer the beautiful destruction that we set up for that one.

RE: RoL

I'm not claiming EITHER lied about their role. If LSB's role wasn't the same as GM's GM wouldn't have had a need to continue pushing him and would have said "oh shit, we DONT have the same role". But that's not the case.

Nothing in ANY of LSBs or GMs post indicate that their vig shots do not work vs townies, with LSB basing his plea on the very fact that it does. GM replied to this very point without commenting on it.

RE: GGQ

So, you have VE shooting GM, who would die or confirm himself as green during the night. No. You also have 3 mafia KP per day which leads to LyLo on day 2 with a single missed justice vig. Double No.

On December 23 2011 18:41 prplhz wrote:
Hey guys

I like GGQ's explanation of night actions. VisceraEyes bombed bumatlarge in Election Mafia on a somewhat flimsy reasonable, he's crazy like that. I think he shot GMarshal. I don't think mafia would shoot VisceraEyes on day1, which is why VisceraEyes shouldn't shoot on day1 if he's blue but again, he's crazy like that.

I think GMarshal was roleblocked last night, because who else would mafia roleblock? If he was roleblocked and he survived there could have been massive chaos day2 and he's a claimed blue who said he'd shoot somebody in the face, scum knows that he isn't kidding around so he's absolutely their best target for roleblock. I think that Chezinu is lying about his roleblock, consequently making him mafia. What do you guys think about that?

I'd post more about him but he's kinda hard to read you know.

On December 24 2011 03:06 prplhz wrote:

I was in PYP:Insane that Protactinium hosted who was part Ver as I understood it. That game had a role called dreamflower that worked kinda like the vigilantes we've seen so far in this game. I really wanted this role so I asked a lot of questions about it and dreamflower only died from hitting someone, if they actually flipped town. Combined with what LSB said, I am going to assume it works like that in this game too. Also, GMarshal told people about his hits at 14:00KST which would leave no room for scum to organize their actions based on what he said. Therefore he did not lie and therefore scum would only know who he was going to hit, too late to change their own actions.

This means that GMarshal was roleblocked, or that his target was magically protected by a medic but the latter I find extremely unlikely.

VisceraEyes voted GMarshal during the whole claim/counterclaim thing, because VisceraEyes thought it was weird that there was another role like his (LSB) but even weirder that there was a third role. I don't really think this is too weird.

I don't think that VisceraEyes was killed by town because he was obvious townie (why aren't you all obvious townies?) and I don't think that VisceraEyes was killed by scum because I don't think scum considered him to be a huge threat. I think it is likely that VisceraEyes shot somebody because he's a crazy man who does stuff like that.

Palmar was shot by chaoser, GMarshal was shot by VisceraEyes who had to take responsibility for shooting a townie and died himself. Jackal58 and SamuelLJackson were shot by mafia. This means that the 4 mafia players have 2 hits, which doesn't sound unlikely to me. Sorry if I was unclear about this in my first post. This seems like the simplest explanation to me, any other explanation that assumes that GMarshal flipped himself by hitting you or assumes that GMarshal lied about his claim in his 14:00KST post seems very unlikely to me.

I'd much rather assume that VisceraEyes was a responsibility vig than I would assume that GMarshal lied or that GMarshal would flip even without getting hit.

---

Now did you read the thread? You say here that you are speculating that GMarshal might have been some sort of suicide vigilante, after he had claimed suicide vigilante in the thread. Can you tell me why you are only speculating, that a confirmed townie who claimed suicide vig in thread, might be a suicide vig? "I'm guessing he has some sort of conscience", well the guy said that in this very thread! Did you read the thread?

Are you saying that I am scum or what?

---

I'd actually much rather continue pushing BloodyC0bbler because night hit analysis of this magnitude is bound to have a huge error margin, that's why we can't really agree. wherebugsgo's defense of BloodyC0bbler has been "Yea, but WIFOM?", attacking the one argument that I said was very debatable, and pointing out that a traitor supported it. I thought about how traitors should act, and I don't think they're going to act overly scummy in hopes that scum will find them. They're probably going to act kinda townie while never pushing to get a scum lynched, and then make a guess at the remaining mafia when they have 2 shots and only have to hit 1. If they act scummy, then they get lynched (or shot in the face). I am uncertain as to whether my case was actually good or bad because only wherebugsgo and VisceraEyes ever really commented on it.

Right now only me and wherebugsgo are actually trying to say who we find scummy, maybe somebody else could chime in at some point in a non-wishy-washy manner.

On December 24 2011 04:57 GGQ wrote:


You are obviously not reading very carefully at all, or you are purposefully misunderstanding. His (my) scenario explains why you are not dead; Gmarshal was roleblocked.

Are you subscribing to the explanation that GMarshal shot VE (or possibly jackal or hydra), after claiming he shot you in a post after the deadline? How do you explain this?

Or do you think he died for trying to shoot you? In that case, what is your explanation for being alive and not receiving notification of a protection?

On December 24 2011 07:33 L wrote:


RE: You
RoL, there's a difference between mildly not understanding logic and implying that I'm saying the opposite of what I'm saying.

I said there CANNOT be a bus, specifically on the mafia team, because given the roles that have been claimed thus far it would be off the charts ridiculously powerful.

Seriously, what the shit.

On December 21 2011 13:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
OK, this game is seriously wtf balls at the moment. To state a few things after my quick read through the thread. Bum and chez regardless of alignment have actively helped people regardless of what people may or may not believe. Their posts illustrate what I am saying. If you cannot find it now it will become apparent later.

As for the general play of this game. It is responsibility mafia. This should just mean Ver has made a game that is designed to stop blatant asshattery. Playing badly will get punished is the general take.

Now one point of this game that has me instantly glued to is the whole idea of RNG day 1 lynch. L is saying its anti town to base an initial lynch off it while palmar believes it is pro town. Guess what? L is right, Palmar is wrong.

RNG the person who is lynched gives no real onus to the player or players responsible for the name being brought up and then lynched. In a game with a no flip on role mechanic will also not let us glean information about the games setup. Since the advantage of discussing lynch choices day 1 is forcing people to take a stand via analysis not luck. If you analyze player x and they flip town you look slightly bad. If the logic used was poor then information was garnered on the accuser.

If you RNG a day 1 lynch it is a crap shot and you learn near nothing from the lynch except the few peoples stance on RNG who started the process.

Now as Palmar is pushing an obvious shitty play I will quote something of his.




Step your game up, for your post you have a filter of terribly uninspired posts talking about very neutral topics.

On December 22 2011 06:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


Did anyone notice that aside from a post about rng, random accusations with no merit and posting random fluff posts talking generalities about things Palmar had provided nothing of any substance in any town way, including this post? Hell up to this post most of them were total spam posts.

Has anyone noticed he made a few more fluff posts then followed it up on a case against GM for wanting to policy lynch a Hydra? Account sharers have proven to ruin games and have an advantage other players don't. Starting a game off before any information is gleaned by saying "lets off the hydras" is not a terrible post. Had he been actively pushing it and bullying people to do so maybe.

He then makes a post to "further incriminate" gm then again attacks me based off my post I made saying that I only covered 3 points. One of those points is "vague" to only players who aren't seriously reading this thread, one point was on talking about something that was so obviously scummy and was something palmar said was pro town (its not) that I had to comment. Even if someone says something ages before you post, if it scummy you comment on it. People do not get a free pass on old comments.

I then told him to stop making vague posts. He was doing so till that point and only started giving somewhat non shite posts after I called him out. So apparently 3 valid points.


Now, I only respond to these posts as he was tossing shit my way for my play. Up until I called him out Palmar was playing like shite. However he is actively playing so I am inclined to let him continue posting to give us a better read on him.

As for the game at hand as it is now. LSB should be hanged. Anyone go filter him. He hasn't really defended himself at all from any heat given, nor has he provided any real analysis on anyone. Near every post of his seems to be quoting people asking questions of clarification on shite rather than contributing in any meaningful manner. Near none of his posts say fuck all about himself and most of them are short as the "long ones" are only long due to quote usage.

So until he comes out with anything substantial to keep him alive im voting him.

##vote lsb

On December 23 2011 14:19 Ver wrote:


SamuelLJackson's attempt to drink soup through one head and spit it out through the other backfired.
Jackal58 was flattened out by a bowling ball.
VisceraEyes found out that drinking hot soup out of a wine glass produces disastrous results.
GMarshal found out that it was a bad idea to enlist in the Nazi army.
Palmar was ejected into outer space and asphixiated.

---

Day 2 is extended by 24 hours and ends at Sun Dec 25 05:00 GMT (+00:00)

On December 23 2011 15:42 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:

Alright, I read all their posts. To start off, one of the reasons I place holder'd on Chezinu was because I found him suspicious. I will elaborate on that a bit later.

But from what I read, here is how I imagine the mafia decided their hits. They hit SamuelJackson for two reasons I can think of, 1. Curu/Sandroba are both good players, and you are essentially killing two heads there. I explained earlier how mafia should be more scared of a hydra then the town should be. On top of this he was making some decent posts and he was virtually tunneling Chezinu all day 1 and didn't want to deal with his insanity. A lot of people put up with Chezinu's insanity because they are too lazy to read it and statistically there is only a 20-25% chance he is mafia, right?

So that's why I think they killed the Hydra.

Jackal58 becomes a bit more complicated, but simply put he was a bit active, he has a bit of a reputation and had no one really suspecting him. Not a terrible hit since he wasn't likely to be getting protection either.

VE was a bit more complicated but I have two reasons. He was really active and seemed to be kind of making sense, at least compared to what I remember of him. But more importantly this post probably sealed his fate.

Which brings me to my next question.
What's up Sheth?

On December 22 2011 11:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Sheth I swear to Christ if you don't put your vote back on LSB something horrifying is going to happen to you overnight.

On December 22 2011 14:12 Ver wrote:



After much rioting and dueling, things finally settled down as LSB was meekly led to the noose. The crowd eagerly gathered around to see a happy spectacle. However, their hopes were dashed as LSB the innocent was lynched!

---

Night Actions are due by 05:00 GMT (+00:00) tomorrow.

On December 25 2011 12:11 bumatlarge wrote:
I don't think that's very strong, Alot of those things seem very coincidental. The voting in particular seems very pushed, 12 people were on it, and the "third-fourth voter is scum thing" doesn't do a lot to convince me.

Mostly cause Wiggles immediately jumped on it. A lot of people are legitimately busy, and the analysisis appreciated, but BC being inactive because it's his diabolic scum plot doesn't sit right with me.

His initial posts and the night-hits make sense if he was scum though, so I'll be open to switch f we need to get a lynch through. Otherwise I'll be focusing on Wiggles.

On December 25 2011 13:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
still busy with xmas shit, but to add in the one piece of information I can add that is relevant to this entire thing.

I shot GM. Be back in a bit or sometime tommorrow.

On December 27 2011 08:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


I couldn't shoot palmar or I would have. Before lsb was lynched I was able to shoot him as well but with his lynch that became impossible.

Near every kp role in this game as a trigger from what I can tell so far and until the conditions have been met you can't use your powers. Plain and simple.

On December 27 2011 08:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


I couldn't shoot palmar or I would have. Before lsb was lynched I was able to shoot him as well but with his lynch that became impossible.

Near every kp role in this game as a trigger from what I can tell so far and until the conditions have been met you can't use your powers. Plain and simple.

On December 27 2011 15:30 Foolishness wrote:
Hey RoL, got a big question for you:


You claimed that you did not take a hit last night.

LSB confirmed that if he shoots a green both the green and him die.

Thus you should be dead, as GM dying is accounted for now.

But I am also curious why you would say what I highlighted in your post if you were town. Seems like you wrote that because you have extra information on some sort of night events happening.

On December 28 2011 06:13 Foolishness wrote:
The other day I thought that BC was red, but his claim makes a lot of sense.

Why RoL is still alive is the biggest problem at the moment. If GM breadcrumbed his real target (which most people seem to think he didn't) I haven't been able to figure out the real target.

Pretend that you are RoL and you are mafia. You got shot last night but you survived due to whatever reason (medic, veteran, etc). What would you say in the thread? You are highly suspicious cause you were inactive day 1, so claiming that you took a hit isn't going to do anything for you since it will just make the town lynch you anyways. But if you claim that nothing happened to you during the night, suddenly you might be saved since everyone is now distracted with what really happened during the night. And perhaps GM's suspicions of you were just a farce to hide his real shot.

We should still kill bugs at some point though.

On December 28 2011 10:04 prplhz wrote:
@Foolishness

Why did you not change your vote to BloodyC0bbler then? You didn't push wherebugsgo very hard either, it was one post that might have attracted attention, but nobody really picked up the ball from there. Are you telling me that you thought that your vote was more well placed on wherebugsgo than on BloodyC0bbler, who had a lot more votes and who you also thought was scum? If you still think we should lynch wherebugsgo, then why didn't you push him harder yesterday? What did you do yesterday?

Why does his claim making sense make him blue instead of red? He claimed 48 hours into the day, he absolutely knew that there would be no counter claims. So far, we have had three vigilantes claim, BloodyC0bbler should absolutely know that with this many vigilantes, any vigilante most likely does not have two shots and so they have no reasons not to tell town about their shots as soon as possible. Why does this claim make him blue instead of red? Considering this and how close he was to getting lynched yesterday, a claim like that doesn't seem very risky for a scum at all.

On December 28 2011 18:50 syllogism wrote:
Well at least one out of RoL and Chezinu is definitely mafia. I would like to hear from Chezinu first but the situation has been covered quite adequately above.

On December 29 2011 03:19 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Things I'm pretty sure of without going in to why too much. I've just finished reading the entire thread so this is just based off of a clean full read.

If one of Syllogism / L are mafia then the other is town.

Chezinu was giving me a very town feeling, but hasn't posted in a long time. What are your thoughts on how everyone was killed this night, or even last night?

BumatLarge if your a vig why were you so sure that LSB was lieing and voted against him? Do you think Kita is mafia?

Prplhz you are the one person who is cleared town to me. After reading the problems with the first night we both came up with the same logic. That VE vig shot GM and that GM was roleblocked from killing someone. And then that the other 2 were Mafia KP. Since then, However BC shooting GM has since changed things.

RoL you claim vig and that you shot Bloody Cobbler this is interesting. You also voted for Chezinu the first night. Was there a reason you didn't hop on the LSB bandwagon? And you disagreed with prplhz's theory about how night one went down. I find this interesting as well.

Kitaman you are actually my one fairly good read on being scum. Just because of how you've played this game. You went after a lurker (myself) which is understandable, but after it not working (me not posting because I was just sick and busy with other things honestly) you still kept on me and didn't really go scum hunting elsewhere. You also were against some of foolishness' reasoning and have just had very scummy play overall. Your my for sure read on who is mafia and who'd I'd prefer to lynch tonight.

Sylogism Bugs asked what you thought at one point during the game. You were negative towards Bumatlarge. And you and L are arguing quite a bit. I'm really not sure on you honestly. Null read.

L You've had good logic. You voted for Palmar day one which I find weird. I have a null read on you as well. Other then thinking that either BOTH you and sylogism are town or 1 is town 1 is mafia I really don't have a great read. I think there is very likely no chance your both mafia.

So thats where I'm at right now.

Rebirth of Legend, were you hit and just lied about it earlier?

On December 29 2011 12:03 prplhz wrote:
@RebirthOfLeGenD Can you tell me why you shot BloodyC0bbler over Liquid`Sheth and Chezinu?

On December 29 2011 19:15 L wrote:

Might have? Either you or Chez is mafia and for some reason you didn't hit him because you instead wanted to kill one of our strongest players and it 'might' have been a mistake?

Is anyone else even bothering to read how bad these posts are?

On December 31 2011 11:10 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
Hey, Syllogism, if I was a unroleblockable Vigilante, who would u recomend I shoot?

On January 02 2012 16:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I called the hit first.

On December 31 2011 04:22 bumatlarge wrote:


Why would I care who is town? The object of the game is to oust scum, not figure out who is town. If they aren't on my radar, then I really don't see a reason to worry about them.

Hopefully isn't a guaranteed town win. If town had no viable shots or mafia has more then 1 roleblocker, we would have got off scott free. And that doesn't explain how kita and I generated the L lynch. The L lynch would not have happened and you guys would have stuck around on the RoL wagon for the rest of the lynch. I don't think there was much reason to go through all this trouble and then have this conversation if we could have been having a post-game conversation.

On January 03 2012 15:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Bum I didn't vote because I had no idea wtf was going on. I hadn't read the thread at all so for all I knew L could have been town. I was subbed in like 4 hours before the lynch ended and up until that point I hadn't opened the thread since I asked to be taken out of them game.

If you think that my lack of vote alone makes me scum then you need to broaden your sights a bit. Right now in your scenario, I'm scum and I claim to have shot syllo... to what end? If I'm scum then I already used my shot on prp, but I can't force syllo to die. My only option is to claim RB but wait, I already rb'd sheth. If I had called my shot after the day post and saw syllo had died it would have made a lot more sense because now I have syllo's death to back me up. But I claimed before the deadline. If I'm scum then how do I know that syllo will die, and furthermore, what is my backup if I already rb'd sheth. If syllo doesn't die then I'm forced to claim rb, but then sheth cc's me. Even if I get a mislynch on sheth, when he flips green I've still outed myself.

Do you see where the problem is Bum?

On January 03 2012 04:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
crap didn't mean to hit enter, did you talk to Chezinu at all before taking his role over?

On December 21 2011 00:07 Chezinu wrote:

Well, this game is all about people's ability to respond....response ability.. I'm totally dead for saying responsibility so many times.

On January 04 2012 13:06 bumatlarge wrote:
Oh meapak, that's heart warming. Shame I'm the only one with a shot left, and mafia has a roleblocker.

KITAMAN, YOU SHALL BE PURGED. NO MERE ROLEBLOCK CAN STOP MY WRATH.

And guys, no lynch right? I mean, this might just a test in order to see if scum can increase his chances, but it might be that he cannot kill anyone? Then we get two lynches? I mean it's really stretching, but there is no reason not to wait. Ver is a cruel dude sometimes, but he isn't bill murray (Cue 2nd no-lynch gives mafia 2 KP). We still have a lot of cycles to go through. Meh, maybe to give scum time to figure out what he isn't doing

Can we opt to end the day early?

On January 05 2012 14:01 Ver wrote:


No lynch. Day ends blah blah. Send your actions.

Can we speed up cycles plz.

On January 06 2012 04:39 bumatlarge wrote:


No, you are not my top candidate for scum, and if RoL would just set off my role condition I would feel a lot better about him.

On January 06 2012 02:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I obviously knew that kita was going to disagree with my analysis of him, but I'd like to hear what Bum and RoL think. Bum do you still think I'm most likely to be scum? If so, what problems do you have with me that you don't have with kita. Same with RoL, what is wrong with my kita analysis that makes bum a better lynch?

I've been reading the thread again and I'm feeling very confident that kita is scum at this point.

On December 24 2011 08:29 wherebugsgo wrote:
also, I should note, that because of this, I now very strongly believe either Chezinu is lying about that RB, or that there exist at least two roleblocking roles in the game. From what Foolishness has said, I am certain scum roleblocked GM.

Chezinu might have been roleblocked by a town roleblocker yesterday, if this is true. He could also be scum. As of now I don't believe Chezinu is scum.

To the players who believe Chezinu is scum: (i.e. prplhz) please provide a detailed case as to why you believe he is scum and not town. I will do my own rereading of Chezinu's posts, to see if I have missed anything. I don't think I have, though, seeing as I've read the thread at least 3 times now (not hard, seeing as no one is doing anything)

On December 28 2011 11:54 wherebugsgo wrote:
feel better about him than I do about Foolishness or Chezinu!

Upon rereading I think RoL has been acting rather town-like. The GM business doesn't make sense unless GM was RBed. We don't know that for sure unless Chezinu is lying or trolling. This is the problem atm.

So, we lynch one of Foolishness/Chezinu tomorrow IMO. I guess if there's a convincing argument for RoL being scum I'd be willing to lynch him too. Chezinu very well could be lying/trolling. He did nothing today, though he did more day 1. His activity dropped off like a scum's would. At first I didn't believe he was lying. Now I'm more willing to entertain that idea.

also my bad, I'm playing LoL :p I got back from jury duty and I feel lazy.

On December 28 2011 18:50 syllogism wrote:
Well at least one out of RoL and Chezinu is definitely mafia. I would like to hear from Chezinu first but the situation has been covered quite adequately above.

On December 28 2011 23:24 syllogism wrote:

Chezinu claimed RB on n1, so either he is lying and thus scum or he was RBed and then there is no good explanation for you to be alive unless there is a scum medic. I guess it's possible that GM didn't actually hit you or his shot doesn't go through if the target is town, but both scenarios require poor play on GMs part; he specifically said that his role is the same as LSB's, who heavily implied that his shot goes through regardless of the alignment of the target.

On December 29 2011 07:01 syllogism wrote:
Bum how does the scum team consisting of role blockers make sense considering that only one person has claimed RB so far and last night there were 6 deaths, of which only one was claimed. None of the living players claimed RB, so even assuming foolishness was RBed, that's three missing role blocks.

Given the weird n1 kills I think it's more likely that scum also has some sort of KP roles that punish "bad" play or something similar. A scum medic also makes more sense than more than 1 RBer due to the missing RB claims. Two role blockers is possible but lynching people or clearing people based on that assumption in LYLO is very weak/scummy.

On December 22 2011 06:33 L wrote:


Sorry, got caught up with Palmar. Here's the list:

1. Foolishness -- Actively Hiding, but he's stuck his neck out a few times. Not sure yet.
2. RebirthOfLeGenD -- Quiet
3 .wherebugsgo -- Aggressive and Questioning.
4. kitaman27 -- Aggressive post analysis, but I'm not sure how long you had that liquid sheth picture around. Undecided.
5. syllogism -- Actively Hiding. Leaning towards red.
6. SamuelLJackson (sandroba/curu hybrid) -- I have no idea how to read hydra posts, but he has content posts + early vote. Greenish as far as I can tell.
7. Jackal58 -- Very short posts but lots of questions. Probably trigger hitter.
8. Liquid`Sheth -- BLARING WARNING SIGNS.
9. GMarshal -- Not enough information. Starts off quiet, moves to medium content posts. Early vote. Goes quiet again. Seems like a busy townie.
10. L -- This is me. I am super cool.
11. Mr. Wiggles -- Huge content filled posts. Aggressive voting after building a case. Lots of questions. Probably a trigger hitter.
12. Palmar -- Should be obvious that I am leaning towards mafia on this one.
13. Chezinu -- Proposes a HYPER aggressive roleclaim early, but no one bit. I assume he's town but maybe 20% potential for traitor based on the risk involved.
14. chaoser -- Lots of questions. Large analysis posts. Aggressive early vote on me. Probably another trigger hitter.
15. bumatlarge -- Huge content filled posts designed to spur discussion and an early vote. Very town.
16. BloodyC0bbler -- Not enough posts. I'd really prefer that he posted more and he's one of the reasons I waited.
17. LSB -- Probably the toughest call in the game asides from Palmar. His posts appear large but they're short replies to large quoted text. Additionally, he's been called out before for 'trying really hard to not piss people off' which is a warning light in metric land. He does, however, vote early, but his case isn't very strong. I lean red on him.
18. GGQ -- One substantive post. Same as BC.
19. prplhz -- Short avoidant posts early. RNGs, votes Viscera. Also has a very solid attack post on GMarshal. Aggressiveness indicates town. Post structure indicates busy.
20. VisceraEyes -- Super town.

I wanted to put filter links on the names, but I have no idea how to do that quickly. Also not putting additional information regarding roles other than trigger hitters, because DANG BRO, THATS NOT HELPFUL. Also, everyone that's blue isn't blue because they're legit; its possible mafia has trigger hitters. Anyways, go through the list and see what you think.

Anyways, I'm now at 22 hours left for 4k words in my term essay, so I will be taking off at the speed of light (meowth, that's right). I'll pop in in a few hours to see what's up, but other than that I can't spare much more time today.

On December 30 2011 13:24 L wrote:
Oh, so there's a bunch of people actively lurking.

On the plus side, we don't lose immediately when I'm lynched now. So, for night actions: when I flip town, shoot some combination of RoL, Kita and Bum and lynch whomever remains the following day. If you don't hit 2 mafia during the night, we go from 5:3 now to 4:3 after the lynch, then 2:3 after mafia hits, so we'd lose. On the plus side, if people don't derp out and decide to read this post, we might win, but given how poorly the town's playing it would surprise me if we lose regardless.

Anyways, cheerio chaps.

On December 27 2011 14:44 L wrote:
RE: Activity.

Sorry, my Christmas plans multiplied pretty quickly because one side of my family had a second celebration on the 26th due to scheduling conflicts with other chunks of the family from which I just got home from.

If I had to push for someone yesterday I'd have gone after GGQ. I was pretty certain with my assessment, but I hadn't put together enough time to outline the full case on him.

RE: BC
The recent few posts by BC have been oddly worded, but only if you don't bother reading the first day of the game. He is talking about the breadcrumbing that I (and one other) did early on in the thread. I fully agree with his statement (maybe not to the same extent that he put it), but every claimed role thusfar has been a form of conditional or weakened vig. This also fits with my initial prediction that the concept of responsibility will be a game accellerant.

RE: Night
Either way, we might lose tonight if more guns go off in the wrong direction.

We've got four options:

1) Power play: We draw up hit targets and have people volunteer to hit if they can w/ accompanying roleclaims.

2) Hit discuss: We discuss hit targets and let people decide of their own choice if they wish to act on it.

3) Silence + NA: We refuse to talk about potential hits in order to neuter any potential RB action, then hit targets as per private tendencies

4) No night actions: We do any of the above, but hold off on shooting people tonight.

But to be honest we don't have very much time to deliberate over these options. The more pressing matter is who should we shoot and why. I personally don't think BC should be shot, but my gut is telling me that GGQ, Kitaman and Foolishness are probably our best choices for the night.

GGQ's posting contents look scummy on their own, and Jackal, an otherwise unimpressive kill target, points towards him. Kitaman asks a LOT of questions but offers very little content of his own. His posts seem careful and guarded, careful to prod, but not make opponents. Foolishness took day 2 off after a standard non-existent day 1; very atypical play given he normally springs into action D2, but hey, I was afk for the majority of D2 as well.

But see, here's my problem, the main criteria for catching mafia if I'm right about this format being hit driven is activity. Given that we just had ZERO activity out of anyone, I'm kinda up shit's creek about how to understand what happened. I'm going to go reread day 1, because the past 15 pages of the thread are trash.

On December 28 2011 14:58 L wrote:

Wait, what? Who did what to me now?

On December 30 2011 14:31 L wrote:

:D

GL everyone!

On January 06 2012 12:46 kitaman27 wrote:


lol RoL, how quickly you change your mind, even though there has been absolutely no new evidence. Funny how you were suspicious of bum, yet when nobody decided to bite, you never followed through.

On January 06 2012 15:04 bumatlarge wrote:
Sorry, Kita. I actually shot at RoL last night, because if he was scum I think he might have not roleblocked me. Anyway, I don't think he can be a roleblocker and still have pulled off that BC shot without being a scumvig.

Since meapak is dead it makes kita's "hit" on syllo look pretty bad.
##Vote: Kitaman27
I haven't been keeping track of how many scum I've killed kita, and neither has RoL.

Basically if RoL is mafia, this is gonna be Insane Mafia 2 all over again. Oh well. Commence hammer Ver.

On January 06 2012 15:42 kitaman27 wrote:


A town response to me posting all my notes from the entire game would be something along the lines of "oh crap, could bum be scum afterall?", instead you know that I'm probably not willing to lynch bum, so you focus on convincing him that I need to be killed without even mentioning them. You're scum RoL.

I'll try to post my final analysis first thing tomorrow morning.

Chezinu- Said he was going to try, early on posting random shit. Impossible read. Attacks Amber's post, leaning town

Radfield- too much emphasis on lurkers, and very wordy posts, although might just be his style of posting if I remember right. He just writes wordy looking at his BC defense against accusations.

Kurumi- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762&currentpage=9#179 Reversed Ace's words in an interesting way. Ace didn't say 2KP mafia would be too strong, but used the no flip to justify why mafia were so weak. Kind of odd. Spams and contributes nothing of actual value. Votes for fishball.

Amber[LighT]- Page 10 posted the dumbest shit I have ever read. Reading red.

BC- Actually trying this game. I agree with his thoughts on radfield posting unnecessary shit, but at the same time I believe radfield just writes in a very wordy way. Protown read for effort, but he might just like the challenge in this game.

ilj- echoes. ECHOES MOAR. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762&currentpage=14#266
KNOWINGLY ECHOES
ARGHHHH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762&currentpage=15#286
First actual thought.

Chaoser/VisceraEyes- Sucks, bitch puts me at tier 2. Psuedo contributions but gets subbed out. Viscera?

Fishball- The boss negro.

Deconduo- Aggressive, not his typical mafia behavior, generally tries to coast. Wants to kill fishball who he thinks is green? Que? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762&currentpage=16#307
Deconduo is in the gray, I think he is honestly just playing like shit.

Caller- POST SOMETHING RELEVENT, I HATE YOU. Chezinu .5

Palmar- Wants to carpet bomb the game with kills, I like it. First post of Radfield/Kurumi. I agree with the reads more or less.

Scamp- Not as active as I would like, late game bloomer. Doesn't appear too scummy.

LSB- Posting late about Deconduo/Fishball and posting dumb shit.

Sandroba- Posting nothing, supports LSB? Odd. Actually defends himself fairly well to fishballs accusations. Going in the gray area.

On January 08 2012 14:14 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
HECK YEA, GOOD GAME KITA!!!! MEAPAK I LOVE YOU, BUM YOU CAME THROUGH FOR ME AT THE END. ROL IM PROUD OF YOU. GG

On January 08 2012 14:47 bumatlarge wrote:
Haha I loved it. I was pissed during the game from having 0 information so I couldn't figure out things like I usually do, but now that the game is over it's more fun. I'd change around a few things so that there is an amount of guesswork still. Also, use Responsibility points! Or a role that measures someones response ability!

And mass vigis are scary, I could imagine the scum team would get screwed pretty hard if 2 vigis hit red night 1, while we were able to recover from lylo even after those townie massacre's and a HOliday related no-lynch. I want to be on a scum team with a scum medic

On January 08 2012 19:51 wherebugsgo wrote:

In addition, I completely disagree over having qualified for spam vig, and for syllo qualifying for the acronym vig. There's an inherent bias in the host allowing a person to shoot someone else on certain grounds because the host already knows the alignment of the player in question. Thus, there's already a subconscious bias that will cause a tendency toward the host allowing the player to take a shot on a mafia player, whereas on a town player it's less likely.

On January 08 2012 19:52 syllogism wrote:

I don't understand. The roleblocks made sense in light of what we knew; Sheth had been very suspicious of Kita and so had been GM. Are you suggesting we shouldn't have role blocked anyone? Blocking bum on n5 was a mistake as by that point kita should have gambled but considering his heroic efforts otherwise, can't fault him for that.

Even keeping some of the people a lot of townies were suspicious of (RoL) doesn't seem too bad

On January 08 2012 22:58 syllogism wrote:
I didn't really mean to imply that you played poorly, I don't really pay attention to that as scum, especially when the person in question isn't getting us lynched. I just think that there were enough townies suspicious of you for you to be a realistic lynch candidate and your inactivity could have made defending difficult. Unfortunately you shooting a townie at night apparently confirmed you as town to some.