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On December 21 2011 10:28 LSB wrote:
Well that concludes that debacle
wherebugsgo: Greenish read. He sounds far to much like a tunneling townie than a calculated bus. Especially since he grasp at any straws to try to get his push through, rather than abandoning a hopeless case.
WBG, do you consider the bolded word in LSB's ultimate read of you post your case to be a slip? He's referring to your case on him as tunneling, why would it be a 'bus' unless he were considering you to be scum making a case on him (who he knows is scum?) I know I argued that vet players don't typically make this kind of slip, but...read it. If he were town, why would he phrase it that way? Why would he not say something like "...too much like tunneling townie than scummy attempt to push a mislynch"? I still don't like the slips you found, but what do you think of mine?
The rest of LSB's posts since your case have been pretty bad universally, and I'm ultimately willing to add my token to his kettle.
##Vote: LSB
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@GM
You seem to be on the fence about LSB, your post doesn't say much about him other than "I think WBG's case on him is weak, but here's something I found that wasn't in the case"...which it was. Do you know something about LSB that we don't? Or do you suspect something about LSB that prevents you from voting for him?
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WBG, that's not what I was implying at all. If I thought that, I wouldn't have directed the question at you would I? Never does any good to try and convince scum that they're scum, amirite?
No, I wanted your opinion. It looked like a slip to me, and you've proven to be keen on looking for slips, so I wanted your opinion on it. It read to me as an accident...like, he posted what his actual thought process was instead of what his revised, "town"-persona thought-process should have been.
I've got you as a pretty strong town read atm, don't fuck it up with paranoia. 
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@GM
LSB's filter isn't long. You're familiar with the playstyles of most of the players in the game I'd imagine (at least nominally), could you go read LSB's filter and give your honest opinion of him rather than fence-sit/throwaway-vote?
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Yeah, Palmar's case on GM was a joke, but his surge in activity/stagnation of content make him a more attractive option to me as well. However, with this clarity comes more questions: like, if he's scum, why would he not jump at the opportunity for town-cred simply for placing a vote that may or may not end up with (presumably) his buddy's lynch? If they're buddies, I can see this 'disappointed in myself' demeanor coming from scum GM, especially taken with him basically ignoring everyone's requests for him to expand his read on LSB for the good of town (he's the leading candidate, he's got more support than Kita, he's as guilty as Kita for the reasons GM gave for voting Kita, etc.)
I'm also willing to switch to GM.
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Palmar, what's your read on GM now that he's actually contributed something more than some vague PL pushes?
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Palmar, GM has been abashed because he chose to do other things yesterday instead of contribute...I vaguely remember him mentioning working, but he's certainly not "using it as an excuse"....
Tell me you're getting cold feet when your scum-suspect is not only even scummier than before, but could feasibly get lynched. Tell me that please Palmar.
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Yeah, this is fucking damning. At no point does GM state that the reason he has been absent was "because he was overloaded at work"...yet this is the sole reason Palmar is uncomfortable lynching GM.
Tell me I'm not imagining things guys, go read GM's filter and see if it says ANYTHING to the effect of "I didn't contribute yesterday because I was overloaded at work"
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Palmar, clearly he was busy, or he would have been in here fucking playing the game. He had all of FOUR POSTS when you made your dumbass case against him, and now that he's actually (not) contributed, you want out? So you can push your L lynch that isn't fucking going anywhere?
I'm not the asshole here, you're the asshole. You expect town to believe that you now are "cutting GM slack" when NOT EVEN THREE HOURS ago you were out for fucking BLOOD. What's changed? That he's given lame fucking excuses for not contributing? BULLSHIT PALMAR. That's ridiculous, you know it's ridiculous, and you calling me an asshole for calling you out on it is an asshole move. I'm just trying to lynch scum. You're trying to make me out to be the bad guy for it. Why? Why would you do that as town?
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@GM
For my part, I respectfully deny your request. What's stopping ALL of our candidates from just saying "Oh you know, just give me 48 hours to get my shit together" You've been asked several times to reinforce your read on LSB, and in the time it's taken you to post THREE excuses, you could have read LSB's filter SEVEN times because he's posted maybe TWELVE times. "I'm confused" doesn't work in a game full of vets and "I'm tired" doesn't work as an excuse 5 hours from the lynch. Sorry bro, but if you gain more support than LSB, I will be voting for you.
I like you as a person. And I appreciate your honesty about being busy. But I think you're scum, and we don't have time to be granting scum asylum because they couldn't be bothered to play.
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But if he's busy, he's not being a dick, guy! If he's honestly just too busy to play, then he's not BEING a dick!
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I'll tell you what I think WBG.
I think that GMarshal is scum.
First, he comes in with a few pretty inflammatory posts regarding his irrational hatred of hydras and suggests policy lynching them. Now, I find this pretty interesting, because at the time, I was relatively suspicious of SLJ from the whole Chezinu nonsense...and I wasn't alone I don't think.
Fast forward. Zero posts from GM occur. During this time, he's too busy to play. Fair enough. BUT, when he gets back, he makes a couple of posts indicating that he's reading the thread. Cool! Like, "Yeah, I'd comment, but I'm not done rereading." and the like. That's fine, right up until this post.
On December 22 2011 06:06 GMarshal wrote:Alright, I've finally had time to read the thread.
Lets crack this bitch right open. Part 1: The Setup First of all, regarding the setup. Everyone who is speculating on it, I suggest you go take a gander at Personality Mafia, notice the preponderance of vigilantes over dts. I'm betting this game follows a similar theme in that respect. I think this talk of triggers is preposterous, responsibility is based on actions not words, so expect things like weak medics or suicidal vigilantes, not "a DT that can only check people who have said potato". So stop worrying about "triggers" and such. This is at its basest still a game of mafia. Behave analytically, dont lie and don't derp, and everything will be ok. Bumatlarge's talk of responsibility points is an insane excuse to obfuscate his posting, and thus rather suspicious in and of itself. This is a closed setup, we know nothing, so stop talking or making assumptions based on the title. For all we know everyone is a VT or a time traveling Nordic Jahrl, don't speculate about the setup, since we are probably never going to have any concrete information regarding the setup. I'll say it again, play this as a normal setup. My major suggestion is to not claim, however under any circumstance. I suspect that there is a mafia role that can shoot based on claims, much like the sniper in Zona's Steamship game. Don't adjust your behavior to deal with the setup, if the setup is well designed then playing normally will win us the game, and behaving like morons will end in our quick and unsubtle deaths. So, don't worry about it, and don't waste time discussing it. (part two coming as soon as I'm done writing it)
The parts I've bolded are the parts I find the most important. He claims to be done with the reread, and he's confident enough in what he's seen to "crack this bitch right open." The thing that sticks out the most to me about this post is that it looks JUST like the first post in the 'town-meta' link that Palmar provided in his case against GM. I think this is by design.
Next, draw your attention to the next bolded statement. WBG, you were all over LSB for his "specific knowledge of the roles in the game.".......it doesn't get more specific than "weak medics and suicidal vigilantes". I mean, I'm relatively new, so the thought of weak medics and suicidal vigs hadn't even occurred to me when envisioning how this would be balanced/setup. But GM specifically mentions those roles as roles to look out for. And, as we've determined from the OP and the nonsense surrounding your case on LSB, the scumteam will get a list of some or all possible roles in the game. I think this is a hell of a lot more indicative of hidden knowledge than speculating that there's an SK, no?
Next comes this, his part 2.
On December 22 2011 06:55 GMarshal wrote: Part 2: Picking and Choosing. Who to lynch day 1 Fuck it, I was half way through an analysis and realized it was utter shit. Let me just throw down my thoughts on a few players and I'll try to cook up something actually coherent. The major point is that the thread early on is actually painful to read with a bunch of nonsense being thrown around. Chez and bum yelling about triggers and hinting at roles, when really, there is no reason or call to do so. That said, I can see bum doing that as town, and Chez is freaking Chez, although in his defense, I can come up with a reason why town would claim traitor, in fact, I think anyone who has read the OP carefully can come up with a reason. If chez were not utterly insane and had been subtle about it I might have even given him town points for it. LSB: Well, he hasn't come up with a mega plan yet, but I find wbg analysis against him to be quite weak. The fact is I expect better play from LSB overall. One point I didn't see brought up is that LSB seems to be lacking confidence, Town LSB is supremely confident, I don't get that "feel" here. his defense seems ok. I wanted to comment on him since he was a lynch target at some point. SamuelLJackson - Hydra! Kill it with fire! Kill it with fire!. Ok, not seriously. What I find suspicious is that he endorsed a weak case against LSB. The fact that he can't come up with a reason why Chez might softclaim traitor as town is suspicious to me, especially because he says its anti town, and then doesn't do anything about it. Especially lolworthy is how he accuses me of making a stupid case when my "case" is "I dislike hydras, hurr durr", which was an attempt at gauging reactions. In fact I find the fact that he is so upset over it to be something worth noting Kitaman- Hi Kita! Do you guys know whats funny about kitaman27 this game? That he is playing exactly to his scum meta and not actually contributing anything! Here is his filterRead it, what is it about? Lurkers and Sheth, thats all kita seems to talk about. Yet he gets away as "not lurking" because of his 3-4 posts. Compare that to his play in Team Meele were he was active and pushing an agenda of lynching scum, and wham, you have a likely red. Seriously, look at his posts, town kita often asks poignant questions and pushes his objectives, almost always taking stances, while scum kita likes to go for the "soft" lynches in lurkers and trolls while staying well away from the spotlight. Notice how he pushes Sheth, who no one is voting for, likely putting him on the "voting for someone not lynched train" Kita walks in in the middle of Palmar making a major accusation about me to yell about sheth, and then walks away, without taking a stance on it. In fact, reading through his posts, he fails to to take a real stance on anything. Of the players in the game, he is one that jumps out at me as extremely suspicious and worth scrutinizing. Also, Palmar and L, stop yelling at each other, and remember, you have a higher chance of finding scum in the mid activity players, which is a category neither of you fulfills, but which kita does.
Between Parts 1 and 2, he goes from a confidence level that allows "let's crack this bitch open" to "my analysis is utter shit". Interesting. Further timidness can be seen throughout the whole post, but the most interesting bit of information is found in his read of LSB...most notably his lack of one. He states that WBG's analysis is "quite weak", yet brings a point "he didn't see brought up" that was actually in WBG's analysis.
When confronted about this, GM melts down. He admits that he hadn't ACTUALLY done a full reread, that was more like a 'fuck fuck I should have done this yesterday' kind of read...but you said you were too busy yesterday? How is it that you "should" have done it when there's no way you "could" have done it? He's asked to expand his read on LSB, from several sources, but his only response is "I'm fried, let me live and see if I get better teeheehee".
Not today sir. Not today.
##Unvote: LSB
##Vote: GMarshal
I find it also interesting to note that Palmar was out for his blood only a few short hours ago...but since he's come in and shown himself to actually BE scum, Palmar doesn't want to lynch him. Instead, concludes that his vote might be better placed on LSB after all, in spite of him telling L "I'm going to get you lynched"
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Do you not share any of WBG's concerns about LSB Jackal? Is there any reason you prefer an LSB vote to a GM vote?
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Yeah, it's buyer's remorse.
Okay guys, let it be known that I'm compromising and my preferred lynch is GM at this point.
##Unvote: GMarshal
##Vote: LSB
I hope you're wrong about this WBG, because I find myself also wary of chicanery during the building of this wagon. And let it be known that even with my vote, we're like around 35% short of what we actually need to lynch.
Basically, I'm ashamed of the activity of this town. For shame, vets.
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I hope you're wrong about your anxiety regarding the LSB wagon. :S I hope you're RIGHT that he's scum.
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Palmar if I may be so bold, what gives you a stronger town read from SLJ and Syllo than, say, me?
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Jeez, I'm almost giddy that shit finally 'got real'. I wish it would 'get real' for more people though.
Anyone have any tricks for goading inactive vets back into the game? Like, posting pictures of mustachioed Italian women or something? Anything?
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I'm with ya Kita, but what can ya do? Apparently I'm an idiot who doesn't make any sense, so I'm certainly not going to be convincing anyone. Do you think your half-hearted pseudo-case is going to convince people? If you do, count me in the number of "Absolutely Willing To Switch to GM".
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On December 22 2011 10:34 Incognito wrote:
Just a reminder, voting closes in 3.5 hours. Votes must be bolded and in the correct format in order to be counted!
On December 22 2011 10:22 Liquid`Sheth wrote:
##Vote: LSB
I sped read through the posts. I have a general picture of things going on. I don't feel that we have a great case against LSB, but I'd rather lynch then not. I have feelings, but no hard evidence. I'm one of those guys who needs a bit extra time, and yes I'm being apologetic about it. Sorry I didn't have the proper amount of attention to spend on this today. I will only get better, I doubt its possible to get worse then I've posted today. Unless I was Chezinu...
That means you, Sheth.
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Please, me and Jackal are tight now. He's the only one who's brow-beat me into silence in one of these games, and I'd like to see him try these days.
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