EPTTL Mafia XLVIII
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syllogism
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I think towns have recently been doing better on the average than a d1 random lynch and considering the obvious downside that people will not have to justify their votes, it's a bad idea. Even if I didn't have a clue who is more likely to flip scum and who isn't, I will at the very least have town reads by the end of the day. If a player who I got a town read on happens to get RNGed, it would be pretty hard not to argue against the lynch. I would even go as far to state that I would rather mislynch day 1 due to scum diverting the lynch from one of their own than RNG and hit scum, but produce no information at all. | ||
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Based on nothing at all, who would you lynch? Palmar why did you ask me a question you knew how I would respond to? Did that reveal anything useful? | ||
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On December 04 2011 21:59 hyshes wrote: So you guys don't exclude yourself from a 'possible scum list"? Is this supposed to be a contribution? You can pretend everyone posted a list that didn't include their own name and then all those lists were assembled into one. Do you think not excluding your own name makes one more likely to be scum or not? More dishonest or more open? | ||
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On December 04 2011 22:22 sandroba wrote: Hello everyone. I'll never agree to the random lynching, I think it's useless. @Palmar You bring that up every game it seems, despite being argued against every time. How exactly is that helping? Do you really want to random lynch? @Syllogism How come you are so active early game? @Radfield Did I read your post wrong or did you dissagree with random lynching and proceeded to random vote? Because I woke up and the thread was pretty much completely empty and dead? Unfortunately I do have to have material to work with and establish my innocence. What do you think my activity implies? | ||
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On December 04 2011 22:21 Palmar wrote: Because I knew what your answer would be, but I was unsure how it would be formulated. Your chosen path was to to deny it decisively without trashing the idea. Which is interesting. You could've been much more careful or much more aggressive, you could have absolutely trashed the idea, or you could have carefully denied it. I'm not sure how to read it though. What made you initiate a discussion with me? Normally you just call me annoying until you figure out if I'm town or scum. I mean, I have done the same thing with sandroba, but what factors control your choice of target (me) and your change in play? You are European, likely awake and usually quite willing to start posting on your own. I don't recall ever calling you annoying, care to provide reference? I suppose the closest I can come up with is lotr where you weren't doing anything and I noted that. | ||
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A strong player surviving until day 3 is just one of the things that should be taken into account when determining his alignment. It doesn't automatically make him scum, but rather is something that depends on other circumstances; ie. who else has died and such. | ||
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On December 05 2011 02:00 prplhz wrote: @redFF What motivation could there be for a townie to propose a no-lynch this early on day1 in a closed setup? Do you think TruthBringer is bad enough not to be able to figure this out himself? Why do you think Palmar looks kinda scummy right now? And what exactly is the scum motivation? Do you think they believe they can get us to nolynch by having TruthBringer propose it? Do you think they would realize what kind of reaction it would provoke? | ||
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Also not liking how Sandroba popped in to ask a few relatively pointless questions and then disappeared without commenting anything. However, It's rather unlikely I will be advocating lynching either of them d1 and they do have quite a while to shape up anyway. | ||
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On December 05 2011 19:52 Palmar wrote: I don't think I "sk8" syllo, that's why people like trying to lynch me. So now that you are back, instead of reading the thread and being useful, you are here refreshing, answering meaningless questions and defending Sandroba. What do you think about sandroba so far? Who would you lynch? Ignoring palmar/sandroba for now, l'll likely be choosing my lynch from the duo VE/Hier. Both have been mostly useless so far and VE/Hier's activity levels have been very low. In XLVII town Hier was quite active once he got started, while here so far his only post is a very disingenuous "case" against me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12594338 He for instance asserts that If you were mafia, it would be advantageous for you to instigate pointless discussions that redirect players from hunting scum based on actual analysis and towards pointless lists that have been If I was mafia? That phrasing seems to me to suggest that you know I'm not mafia, though that may be a bit of a stretch. Regardless, if you were actually interested in making a honest case, you would know those posts were among the first ones made and were there to generate discussion. There was no scum hunting going on; nothing to redirect. Then you go on to suggest defending someone else's innocence, which I haven't even been doing, is somehow indicative of someone being mafia, which is also incorrect. Being incorrect doesn't make you mafia, but your case doesn't feel genuine. Refallen: Why did you emphasize before and after the game started that you are new? Do you think it's important for us to know that we can't expect much from you yet? Mattchew: zero content posts from you so far. The only reason you aren't yet one of my lynch candidates is because your only other game was scum so I can't tell if this is typical of you. If you are town, you need to start playing or you will definitely be lynched or vigied. The list of useless people is quite long so far, so it would be helpful if people actually started posting. | ||
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On December 06 2011 03:10 sandroba wrote: No I'm saying either they are both scum or they were in contact with each other (unlikely). Either that or some miraculous shit just happened. Palmar fake claims vig -> vaderseven claims vig and shoots. Come on. It's a strange coincidence, but the fake claim makes sense in the context of the thread and would have to be quite impromptu and dumb. | ||
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##vote Hier | ||
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On December 06 2011 07:22 sandroba wrote: @palmar how come? You really think hier is a better lynch? You think mafia would push syllo like that assuming he is town? It's not just that the case is bad, that's his only post in the game. If he is mafia, I doubt he was asked to push for my lynch, but rather just made the decision on his own. I think there is something a bit off with your posting so far, but I may be imagining things. | ||
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On December 06 2011 07:45 sandroba wrote: I would expect you to realize that I'm town already. I'm dissapoint. Probably, but I'm annoyed by you disappearing for the first 30+ hours again, sick or not | ||
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On December 06 2011 07:55 vaderseven wrote: Can someone post a non meta reason to not lynch Palmar. The scummiest actions in this game so far have come from him and I cant accept some line of, "ignore his scummyness cuz when he is town its so goooooood." I still will default to lynching him cuz he is scummy. None of his actions show a scummy mindset. He isn't avoiding attention or pushing for clearly bad lynches and isn't undermining any of the people who appear town so far. Him pressuring you was towny if anything. He could be playing like this as scum, but there are better day 1 lynches. | ||
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Toadesstern you aren't voting for anyone. | ||
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On December 06 2011 09:11 sandroba wrote: It doesn't matter how I post you guys are never going to listen to me. It must be a curse. Though I'm not exactly a fan of your switch from vader/zephirdd to no lynch to sort of lanaia. Your case against her was quite short and it's a bit strange how you are suddenly so certain of her | ||
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On December 06 2011 08:50 Drazerk wrote: Except for the fact Palmar has acted like scum all game and the only reason you can think to save him is meta? Can you point me towards the things you find particularly scummy? Is it just the trolling? Do you think fake claiming day vig to extract information from a player who appears to be hiding something is scummy? What is the scum motivation behind it? Do you realize that by claiming his anonymous vote, he is essentially letting town control it? Do you think scum palmar likes to spend day 1s attracting as much attention as possible? | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:00 Drazerk wrote: How wasn't that Palmar's fault? He claimed day vigi and put a timer to V7's head. He had no choice but to role claim then later prove his role claim or the entire town would of lynched him ( Myself included ) He is not slowly coming around he is doing his typical defence of shrugging off any attackers and calling everyone bad. This is not pro town this is destroying the atmosphere we had. Scum are currently directing us towards the no lynch ( Voting for anyone but Palmar ) which is a 100% benefit for them opposed to lynching palmar who is on their team. No, v7 had the opportunity to be open and comply with our request, which he eventually did. Role claiming was completely unnecessary, dumb and shooting like that without discussing it was awful. | ||
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On December 06 2011 10:01 Erandorr wrote: can you read that big wall i wrote and tell me if I am insane or actually making sense? I will possibly read it tomorrow, but we aren't lynching radfield today and you better not throw your vote away by voting for him. | ||
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Me and palmar were asking him to post his notes. You know, in the thread. Do you even follow the game? | ||
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On December 06 2011 14:45 Hier wrote: It seems I have underestimated the amount of terrible town players in this game. I don't lurk, ever. Nor do I plan to. Not as town, not as scum. If I don't post, it's because I can't. Also, what kind of a pathetic death was that? I'll remember that, WBG. gg If one post in 48 hours is all you can muster, which by the way does not even meet the activity requirements, don't join games or at least inform us of your inactivity beforehand. Do not reply to this since you are dead. | ||
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On December 06 2011 20:55 kingjames01 wrote: The bandwagon on Hier was formed out of convenience with manipulation from mafia. Don't pretend that there was an actual good reason to carry it out. Can you expand on this? I know you haven't been around lately, but if you have been reading the thread, you must know that a lot of people consider Palmar a good player and he was quite active. I notice you were not voting for Palmar and thus believe that he likely isn't mafia. Who would mafia rather want dead, hier or palmar? After answering that, reconcile it with your assertion that the wagon formed "out of convenience and manipulation from mafia". Can you point to anything specific in Hier's play that made you so sure that he would flip town? If you struggle answering these questions, what do you think your alignment is more likely to be, objectively speaking? | ||
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On December 07 2011 00:20 Palmar wrote: Why didn't he ask the rest then? I wanted him to shoot Drazerk, who I think is mafia. So do you think he has a scum role that is compelled to claim what he did? If not, how do you propose he explains his protections daily and the fact he is still alive? | ||
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On December 07 2011 00:59 Palmar wrote: I'll answer your question with two questions. a) Would you shoot him if you were mafia? b) How do you expect us to catch him lying about his protections? If he's scum, he already has all the information needed to misprotect every night, mafia can even leave someone who should be a "good" target alive and Drazerk can claim that protection. Even if Drazerk tells us who he's protecting right before day breaks it changes very little. The only roles that can in any way allow us to deduce anything about Drazerk's alignment are tracker and watcher. Not to mention I find the role very unconventional compared to other roles revealed this game (Town Jack, Town Floridian and two Vanilla Town) I would have to shoot him yes if he is truthful about his claim. What is the motivation for claiming? All he is doing is limiting their night kills because they always have to keep one reasonable night kill target alive and there is the risk that town outright forces him to protect certain players. | ||
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On December 07 2011 01:27 redFF wrote: yes syllo: that's not a normal game Is this a normal game and how is that relevant? There's also Insane mafia where Floridian aka Town Elder was a town role | ||
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I assume you don't believe drazerk's claim at all then either, because that most certainly is not a normal role. | ||
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On December 19 2011 06:18 xsksc wrote: Sorry town, I didn't put enough effort into proving that Annul and Toad were scum. I thought it was obvious but I guess I should have worked harder. There was nothing left to prove. Annul was repeatedly shown to be mafia, but this group of townies just refused to listen. If they can't recognize mafia in a situation like that, I don't think they ever will | ||
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On December 19 2011 07:25 wherebugsgo wrote: I disagree, but I'll touch on this in my analysis. It was actually very anti-town because he drew a medic protect n1 that should have been going to you, Palmar, or Radfield. Well yes that was bad, forgot about that. The medic shouldn't have protected him, but can't really fault him for that. | ||
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Sandroba does his compulsory bussing post with as little effort as possible and immediately convinces a townie e: well actually there was a funnier post but I don't want to be mean | ||
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On December 19 2011 20:12 vaderseven wrote: I agree. I am sure this has been touched on but can I get a clear bit of insight on the one item that has botherrd me: Annul was called scum by many for his claim of being med protected. To me, there is not really a clear logic connection here as it assumes that there wasnt a simple bad med call protecting him. Uh just like with everything else in mafia, one scenario is more likely than the other. | ||
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