TL Mafia XLVIII
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
where's mig? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
I can shoot people when they derp, that's it. I don't have a win condition, I exist only to punish dumbassery. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
If we assume the hosts went with the most obvious way of balancing the game, two people out of this list are scum: Radfield Palmar Jackal sandroba syllogism redFF However I would never agree with lynching based on how we perceive the hosts balance games. They could just as well have randomized it or used some other method to balance it. What I'm more interested in is that 6/25 seems like an oddly high number of mafia for a normal setup. Do you think this is offset by lower mafia KP or multiple town power roles? In addition, how would you feel about randomly lynching on day 1. I mean completely random, we just have some kinda rng generator choose our lynch for the day. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 04 2011 22:04 syllogism wrote: Our EU players at the very least should be awake by now and posted: Corrupt, Erandorr, prplhz, Toadesstern. I would like to note that you are required to post at least once every 24h cycle. Based on nothing at all, who would you lynch? Palmar why did you ask me a question you knew how I would respond to? Did that reveal anything useful? Because I knew what your answer would be, but I was unsure how it would be formulated. Your chosen path was to to deny it decisively without trashing the idea. Which is interesting. You could've been much more careful or much more aggressive, you could have absolutely trashed the idea, or you could have carefully denied it. I'm not sure how to read it though. What made you initiate a discussion with me? Normally you just call me annoying until you figure out if I'm town or scum. I mean, I have done the same thing with sandroba, but what factors control your choice of target (me) and your change in play? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 04 2011 22:32 syllogism wrote: You are European, likely awake and usually quite willing to start posting on your own. I don't recall ever calling you annoying, care to provide reference? I suppose the closest I can come up with is lotr where you weren't doing anything and I noted that. Annoying may not be the word you use, but just think about our last game as town together where I was running for mayor. Your approach towards me is not the same. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
If you scumhunt, you might catch scum If you establish your innocence you won't be lynched. If all townies won't be lynched, then the game has been solved. So yes, that should be syllos and everyone else's main concern. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
redFF's case is terrible. VisceraEyes's agreement is a proof it's terrible. I'll explain why tomorrow, don't have time now. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 05 2011 02:24 redFF wrote: posts useless list the very next thing he says basically calls the list useless I'm not sure what the point of this question is. Nobody (except maybe scum) knows for sure. It's pointless setup speculation to look like contributing with a hint of rolefishing. I'm fairly sure this isn't going to happen, dumb idea. Besides we could never trust the person generating the number to not influence it themselves in some way. I promised to explain this when I came back. redFF's case starts by pointing out that I'm making a list that's useless, and then immediately saying the list is useles. He's correct. Syllogism asked me a question, I answered the question, but explained why I didn't think the answer would hold any reasonable value to the game, thus pointing out why I thought syllo's question was not useful, even if I did deliver an answer. How this makes me scum? I have no fucking idea. Then I ask syllogism, remember, this is only aimed at syllo to allow me to get a read on him, how he thinks the game is balanced. This has nothing to do with my alignment either. And the next person that accuses anyone of "rolefishing" will find himself receiving an internet facepound. That's how dumb I think it is. and this post: On December 05 2011 02:27 redFF wrote: he says syllo's play is different from his last game as town. It's being suspicious of him without actually saying anything concrete, this is how scum start wagons without anyone noticing they started it. I know you know how syllogism and I play with each other. If I want him lynched people are going to notice. And not to mention, I have no interest in lynching syllogism day 1 as scum or town, I know he can be lazy as either alignment, and his scumplay isn't particularly scary so far, while his town play is some of the best on TL. So yeah, this statement doesn't hold any value, your case is irrelevant. Please pull head out of ass. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
FOS = finger of suspicion (used to indicate you're suspicious of someone) | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 05 2011 11:25 prplhz wrote: I have VisceraEyes down as suspicious. I have only a little meta with VisceraEyes and that is from way back so I don't know if it will be of any use. It hasn't been so far. It looks like he really wants to get Palmar lynched. He is buddying too hard with redFF and taking his case a bit too seriously. I disagree with his criticism of Drazerk and this is the only thing he's contributed to this game anyway. I think it's weird that he doesn't want to be a part of the nice town atmosphere that he points out we have right now, but he just places his vote and leaves. Wouldn't lynch but wouldn't miss him either. He has to post more. It's normally a town-tell for VE to tunnel me. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 05 2011 19:59 Toadesstern wrote: Well I wanted palmar to get back in this thread and explain those things rather than just ignore them and he did, therefore I'm going to unvote first of all. Palmar could you explain that one: for me? Stilled bugged me because finding out who's town day1 may sound easy because these things are easier to spot than scummy things but is it really going to happen? What I said about this is that I could easily agree on that one on day 2 or day3, however on day1 I just think there's so much stuff that could make a red look pro-town as well. It isn't going to happen lol... this is assuming 100% ideal play from town. But the theory still works, if you establish your innocence, you've removed one town player from the pool of players that will potentially be lynched, and this statistically increased the chances of town lynching scum. The more town players that establish their innocence, the less chance town has of hitting town. Should be simple enough. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 05 2011 20:12 Toadesstern wrote: Well the problem I got was that it just looked like telling people to post pro-town and trust those who are posting pro-town. It just strikes me that you seem to want circle of confirmed townies, which is absolutly awesome but there's just so little (confirmed) information right now that I'm not sure what to think about it. Surely you're not telling people to blindly trust someone because of his day1 actions but that's what I thought when I read that post of yours. Also is that VisceraEyes (that's VE I guess?) something like a known player? I actually thought he might be a new guy having something like his 1st, 2nd or 3rd game and therefore is just overeager in finding red but if this guy is someone as good as the rest of the vets in this game it really does look strange. VE has played a ton of mafia. I remember playing 6 games with him, he lost 5 of those, and the one he won, he got lynched on day 1 as town. So experienced, yes. Good... questionable. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Scumhunting is one way of establishing your innocence, anyway, you're getting hung up in stupid stuff. let's go do something more useful. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 05 2011 20:31 syllogism wrote: So now that you are back, instead of reading the thread and being useful, you are here refreshing, answering meaningless questions and defending Sandroba. What do you think about sandroba so far? Who would you lynch? Not sure yet. Where did I defend Sandroba? I don't recall even mentioning him. Just finished my first readthrough of the thread, don't expect a verdict on who I want to lynch until after a few hours, I'm actually doing stuff at work. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 05 2011 20:39 syllogism wrote: Indirectly defending by attempting to explain why you are being attacked while Sandroba isn't rofl, I'm not even sure how that defends sandroba. Anyway, don't worry about it. I'll go ahead and defend him though. I see no reason to lynch him on day 1, he has a history of randomly just disappearing as town too, and the risk vs reward of killing him makes it not worth it. If he doesn't have anything valuable by day 2 I'll agree to kill him. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 05 2011 21:30 Radfield wrote: What ARE your throughts on syllo, Palmar? A null read, or are you leaning one way or the other? I'm against any kind of lynch on Soap, Corrupt or Truthbringer. I realize no real bandwagons have gotten rolling against them, but I want to preemptively stop any. All three of these players are 'easy lynches', that is, easy for mafia to make a case against them and leave their vote there, basically skirting any real responsibility to scum-hunt. Something is up with Jackal this game, and I'd be ok lynching him at this point. However, I'm not going to push this hard on my own. Palmar, Syllo and Sandro, you guys were all in Merc Mini, how would you compare Jackal's demeanor and tone this game to that one. How would you compare it to a game he was town, like LOTR? Syllo, I agree on Heir. That case looked like he was told to go after you by another player. I'm ok voting him, but ideally I want to hear more first. Heir, speak up! Hyshes, Drazerk and Lanaia all need to pick it up or are going to find themselves on the wrong end of a Day 1 lynch. Likewise, Supersoft you are here now, make it count. ##Unvote I'm leaning town on Syllo, mostly because of how much he's posting and how directly he's tackling questions and issues he feels need to be looked at. Also, no one lynches my homeboy Soap, he's totally down on the RNG train with me. He's officially my best buddy this game. I can't read Jackal, also merc mini is a terrible game to compare to for his scum-play, because since day 1 he knew he could just as well win with town. So all he had to do was to not get lynched. In any case I don't want to lynch him right now. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 05 2011 21:32 Radfield wrote: I agree there is something slightly off about Corrupt, but I think that makes him an excellent target for a vig or hatter, NOT an excellent Day 1 lynch. What do you think? + Show Spoiler + I'm not against the pressure though Why? It's far more demoralizing for town to mislynch and have a vig shoot correctly. I haven't formed an opinion on Corrupt, but your statement makes absolutely no sense, we should always lynch the number one scum read. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Syllo is certainly capable of playing strong scum if he put his mind to it, but well... he has a terrible scum meta anyway. If he's ever wrong as town we just kill him. Sucks to have a meta of being always right. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
[big]FOR GLORY[/big On December 05 2011 13:11 Soap wrote: I don't get day start, no one did nothing and we have nothing to analyze. I'm rnging. ##Vote Drazerk ##Vote Drazerk | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
FOR GLORY On December 05 2011 13:11 Soap wrote: I don't get day start, no one did nothing and we have nothing to analyze. I'm rnging. ##Vote Drazerk ##Vote Drazerk | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 05 2011 23:20 sandroba wrote: Seriously palmar? How about you tell me what you think about the cases people are pushing. vadersen to be more specific. Do you have an issue with lynching Drazerk? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 05 2011 23:27 sandroba wrote: Yes, I do. I went to his filter and I can't tell if scum or not. I think the case on vader is stronger. I am a kite. I went to v7's filter and I can't tell if he's scum or not, I think the rng on Drazerk is stronger. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Brofield, get in here and tell me what you think about v7. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:01 vaderseven wrote: I take notes on everyone and I don't want to post them. They are shorthand and sloppy and for me. Any time I have a conclusion I post it. ok I'm a dayvig. Post your notes, every single one, unedited in the next 1 hour or I kill you. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:04 syllogism wrote: You quoted your own notes and they didn't look sloppy in terms of presentation It's cool bro, I got your back. 56 minutes | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:07 vaderseven wrote: That's going to be hard Palmer I am at work and they are at home. Are you srs about the dayvig claim? Yes. When will you be home from work? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
##Vote vaderseven I think you're bullshitting. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:15 vaderseven wrote: I am a day vig. No, you're not. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:23 syllogism wrote: If neither of you is lying, I think it's a pretty reasonable assumption that there aren't two town day vigs. Would you two agree? Of course, but it's irrelevant, the entire point of claiming a dayvig was to force him to react. He happened to have an almost reasonable alibi for not posting it, as you probably knew the second I claimed I'm not a dayvig, no reason to keep that up since he can easily write notes at work and mail them back home, and have fake notes ready for posting tonight. However, I still think he's bullshitting about his notes. Also, I think he's bullshitting about dayvig, but I'd be fine with him killing Drazerk right now to prove it. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Pick your own target! It's like a perverted russian roulette with random victims. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 01:45 vaderseven wrote: I now highly doubt your claim palmar. Do you stand by your claim? Of course not, didn't I make it obvious. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
and that's my homeboy! | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:08 vaderseven wrote: Prplhz srs question. When did you last see a scum dayvig? Ace's some mafia game about 2 months ago. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:11 Drazerk wrote: oh and I liked you. Now your just being retarded Dude sorry, but you were chosen by fate. but now v7 ruined it. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 02:13 Drazerk wrote: Really? Your're really going to claim that was RNG? My homeboy said it was RNG, I trust him. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 03:11 annul wrote: ofc if soap flips red then the sequence outcome changes a little bit. who knows what powers the red team have anyway -- maybe he has the ability to see what role other players have. who knows. isnt it strange he claims day vig and threatens to instashoot the real day vig? as a town ofc he would not do this. you're in for a surprise bro. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 03:51 Mattchew wrote: Palmar do you plan on keeping this up as long as your alive or will there eventually be something sensible out of you? yeah sure once I've stopped laughing. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 04:27 redFF wrote: the whole point of palmar saying he was a day vig was to find out if vader was actually keeping notes. No, stop it. Actually reading the thread is forbidden, just keep derping. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 04:33 redFF wrote: palmar are you a day role cop? Lol, I'm not a day anything. The entire thing started when syllogism pointed out an obvious flaw in vaderseven's posting. He claimed to have pasted his notes on radfield directly out of his note-thing, yet when syllo requested v7 gave us the rest of his notes after being pressured by sandroba, he refused, based on it not being formatted or anything. Which seems inconsistent with what v7 said earlier. So, I believed, and still believe v7 doesn't actually have notes on people, I think he made that thing on Radfield up. So I decided to force him to post his notes at gunpoint, mostly because for some reason v7 was refusing to give his notes to syllo. Obviously this had a hilarious rippling effect if v7 was actually a day vig himself I retracted my claim long before v7 shot. The entire point was an attempt to force v7 to throw together something that could pass for notes very quickly, hoping he'd fuck up, but he claimed being at work, and I compared the time he posted that to the time when he posted his notes on radfield last night, and it is actually consistent with him having not been at work at that time, but being at work now. So I can't directly call him out on anything, but I think his decision to shoot Soap is incredibly rash. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:06 VisceraEyes wrote: The part where you manipulated a townie (fmpov) into not only wasting his power but also (secondarily) killing a fellow townie. It's scummy. Scum. HANG. Your play today feels EXACTLY like your play from our first game. You're done son. You're so bad at mafia that I have no words. I cannot force anyone to do anything, I have no power. And I definitely didn't ask him to shoot soap, that was fucking retarded. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:15 Corrupt wrote: What did you wanted to achieve with your threats? Get to his "notes-to-self"? C'mon.. :\ If you reveal something that people might want to hear, perhaps they could change their mind. Yes. That's exactly what I wanted to hear, because I didn't actually believe he had notes. It's pretty common scum tactic to pretend like they're doing a fuckton of work, when in reality they're doing as little as possible. If v7 had simply just copy/pasted hist notes, which cannot possibly be that private, the problem would've gone away. Instead he randomly roleclaimed, and when I offered him to retract the claim, he didn't. It was basically a dumb move on his part. Ignore VisceraEyes please, he has like a 1-6 record of winning on this site, and the game he won he still got lynched day 1 as town. I'm not scum, just look at the people who are on my wagon, only newbies and bad people. Not a single one out of the people that actually try to play mafia with any kind of brain activity are trying to get me killed. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:20 Drazerk wrote: Did we learn nothing from the node graphs palmar? Learn what? The fact that nisani is a lazy lying asshole? Not to mention, I was the one who stopped him getting lynched by switching town over to youngminii. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:22 vaderseven wrote: Palmar, when I say I take notes I mean it. I do so as Mafia or town. Just an fyi. Lieing to uncover a POSSIBLE lie is beyond flaw and contrasts to what I have seen you say in the past (Lynch all liars). And why does that matter? Why did you roleclaim instead of simply saying right away the nodes were at home? No one forced you to do that. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:24 vaderseven wrote: There was nothing random about my claim. You are using inaccurate descriptions to slander other people's play. Stop it and go scum hunt. No, explain to me, why did you claim? I didn't ask you to claim, I asked you to give us the notes. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
I'm almost on the verge of just getting myself lynched intentionally to prove you wrong, but I assume everyone already knows you're always wrong. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:30 vaderseven wrote: Lol @ the post that defends palmar and says to no lynch because no one defends him. That's because it's logical. Do you know why people like Radfield, Jackal, Syllo, Sandroba, redFF are the people I listed as good when the game started? It's because they're capable of reading a situation like this and understanding what the hell is going on. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:33 vaderseven wrote: No Lynch is NOT logical IMO. Better than lynching townies (refer to cosmic horror where I forced a no-lynch to save a townie). | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
I think he's still got an hour or two at work. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Holy shit this stupidity is making me mad. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
I know. I keep assuming people will think, so I can do whatever the hell I want because nothing I've done indicates in any way I'm mafia. Sure it indicates I'm trolling/taking the game lightly. Does that make me mafia? Of course not. I always forget they let people who don't think into these games too. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:47 redFF wrote: EVERYONE ON CORRUPT GOGOGO Why not Hier? At least syllogism posted a reasonable explanation as to why that guy could very well flip scum. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:48 Drazerk wrote: And the cycle is complete. 1. Palmar does something stupid day 1 2. Reasonable wagon happens 3. He gets mad 4. He calls everyone bad and destroys town atmosphere and survives the lynch by lynching a townie 5. He flips scum / third party four days later Give me ONE example of this. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 06:53 Drazerk wrote: step 5 may be fictional it will still happen if you escape the lynch That's the step where I'm scum? Your post holds no value without it. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 07:17 vaderseven wrote: I like the case on Lanaia ALOT. It really does fit especially with her posting style last game. The asap posting about things when called out is pretty dang fishy to me too. I am down with either a Palmar or Lanaia lynch at this point. ##unvote I actually think Lanaia is a pretty bad lynch too. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 07:22 sandroba wrote: @palmar how come? You really think hier is a better lynch? You think mafia would push syllo like that assuming he is town? Being apparently completely confused is the only way I've ever seen Lanaia play. She doesn't fail to deliver on being confused and unable to actually read anything relevant from the game. This is exactly the way she behaved in steamship Liquidia. Yes, I'd much rather lynch Hier. While pushing Syllogism may seem like a bad idea, notice that he hasn't actually pushed it. He basically created a half-assed case and then left the thread completely. Do you have a town read on Syllogism? I would think you do. The case seems extremely forced, and designed to pick apart Syllo's play, which has not been scummy at all. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 07:32 sandroba wrote: Yes I do. Doesn't mean he is right day 1 and we are all suceptible to omgus as you would know. The whole reason he is pushing hier is because he is using bad logic and both you and wbg acused him of being mafia on bad logic last game. What do you think about Lanaia? Do you think she's a good lynch for today? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
I have an extra vote, (the role name is floridian) that means the anonymous vote that will show up on the voting chart is mine. I don't see any reason as for why I should not claim this role, as an anonymous vote will probably confuse people more than it helps to keep it concealed. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:42 vaderseven wrote: Just curious here, why did you not claim this when you placed your first vote? I was assuming that the vote counts were out of date or some such. Because I have to specifically place the Anonymous vote. It will be reflected on the voting chart when I do. Thus the secret vote was never on Drazerk, only my normal vote. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Based on a few things I'd like to vote Hier. I think voting for syllogism without good reasons early in the game makes no sense. Especially after Hier should've learned that he cannot assume that his logic is solid after XLVII. In addition, I feel the tone/direction of the case is different. His case against me in XLVII looked like it was reasonably genuine, just using naive reasoning. This case on the other hand looks like it's much more forced with a lot less content behind it. Just read it yourselves, here is his case this game: And here is his case from XLVII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12474384 Here's his XLVII filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=55311&user=55311 Notice that a right after posting the initial case against me, he's around, willing to argue his ideas, keeps pushing it, because he genuinely thinks that this is the correct way to move forward. However, he didn't even post again after presenting his case against syllogism this game. Never mind actually trying to make something out of that case. I can't help but feel Hier has no actual intention of getting syllogism lynched and is simply content with not being called out. My vote, and the extra vote, are going on hier ##Unvote ##Vote Hier | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 08:47 vaderseven wrote: Traditionally, at least, mafia can talk in private during the day and night. I have something to add to this. I was trying to test his claim as it was my role as well. My role name is "Jack." I was trying to confirm his claim in a way that would help him to see my claim was true and thus have him not shot me. I noticed that, did you not notice where I offered you to retract your claim? I was hoping you'd take that. Remember that I never asked for your claim. The whole idea was to bullshit-check your notes claim. I hope you understand why we feel it's suspicious you claim your radfield comment is directly from your notes, yet you said the rest of them weren't formatted properly for the thread. That's a reason enough for me to investigate further. Assuming you have nothing to hide, you have no reason simply not to comply. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 09:03 Zephirdd wrote: LOL k nevermind what I said, you are either scum or third party, but not town. Town wouldn't have a role based on animosity. I was even stretching to have you as town, but this is too far -_- I'm willing to contradict myself and see you flip as scum, there was no fucking point on claiming a role that suits non-town better than town. Plus everything you've done so far. I was defending that scum wouldn't want so much attention and wouldn't go as far as looking so scummy like you did, but now it looks like you are embracing that and going over the top. Seriously? And then you want to go on the case of the guy that made exactly two posts on the thread, not looking for his defense(who knows what the fuck happened to his life). Nope, there is a limit to how much I stretch my town reads. ##Vote Palmar Boy you're about to feel dumb. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 09:33 Toadesstern wrote: Just a thought that came to my mind. A couple people already said that roleclaim looks strange because the role looks like a mafia role. Right now he still hasn't voted (as mentioned earlier) although he said so. What's the deal with that? Also let's just think about that double vote for a second. That could be just some weird trick to get controle of town again. Something along the lines "I got 2 votes, if you want to avoid a no-lynch you better vote what I want". Just a though. Still standing by my decision to let palmar live for today and judge him by what he does day2 but if there's no anon vote like Palmar said I want this guy to die. It doesn't get counted until incognito notices my pm. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 10:12 syllogism wrote: Palmar I don't think we can get the votes for Hier so might as well switch to Lanaia. I hope you aren't scum, but I don't even really care if you are as I'm not ever voting to lynch you day 1 based on such a weak case. You should know I'm not scum, or at least be heavily leaning town on me for now. And sure, I've been playing dota2 all day, just got into the beta. Gonna switch myself and the anonymous vote to Lanaia and just got to sleep. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 10:15 Drazerk wrote: Palmar isn't town and even if he is it gives us a lot more information than a no lynch ever will and we won't have to deal with him trolling for another day and repeating this whole mess once more I'm town, you're terrible at mafia. By the way, I need to sleep it's 1am at my time. If I get lynched. Everyone on this wagon should take a good long hard look at their play, because there is a reason all the players who are commonly considered good have stayed the hell away from my lynch. I know my play hasn't been very productive in this game, I wanted to have a laid back/fun game after the massive pain in the ass that was XLVII. I wanted to play casually and troll around a bit, so I was happy when I got town with a fairly non-important role. That doesn't change the fact that that nothing about my play has been scummy. Anyone saying that is simply incorrect, a fact that will be proven by my lynch. I want that to sink in. If I do get lynched, you guys are taking active stance against some of the best players TL has to offer, and have the audacity to dare think you're right. You obviously aren't, but feel free to fail before you believe me. There is no excuse for voting me at this time. You will not be able to say "But Palmar was playing badly", because that doesn't make me scum. Bad != scum. And you will not be able to say that we had no better lynch, because a no-lynch is preferable to killing townies. Remember that, when/if I flip. This may be the most polarizing lynch I've ever seen in mafia, seperating good players from bad players. I am fully aware I made myself a target. Does that make me mafia? Hell no. There are only two reasons to be on my wagon when I flip. a) You're incredibly bad b) You're scum Good night. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 10:22 syllogism wrote: Palmar switch your vote back please Will do. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Anyway, I just want to throw in my two cents on v7 for now. vaderseven is extremely unlikely to be scum, except for one thing, his choice of target. Everything else points towards him being town. The attempt to communicate his role name to me (Jack) especially screams town, as it seems like he'd never be confident enough to try that if his role was a scumrole. In addition, the panic seemed real enough, and I'm dead sure that he'd have waited for his team approval if he was mafia. Now, shooting soap was pretty bad, the only reasonable explanation I can find to it is that Soap was super-lurking, and vaderseven noticed me calling Soap my homeboy, and somehow hoped Soap would flip scum in order to incriminate me. Obviously vaderseven was at the time quite pissed off at me. But yes, even the only reasonable explanation for the target choice leads to v7 being town. I guess you could argue that Soap is also the lowest-risk target for mafia, and for that reason I'm not willing to go as far as call v7 confirmed, but I'd at least consider him quite strongly town. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
I will re-read the entire thing now. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 06 2011 23:27 Toadesstern wrote: well it's a tricky situation I guess. Just think about it, the guy just claimed dayvig (which is the only mistake he did imo) so he had to shoot at some point, Sadly that point was day1. I wouldn't trust 3 guys who threaten to kill me, so he obviously was not going to listen to a thing you guys said. Probably the rest would have told him to not shoot so early. So he had to make that decision on his own. Why didn't he ask the rest then? I wanted him to shoot Drazerk, who I think is mafia. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 00:29 syllogism wrote: So do you think he has a scum role that is compelled to claim what he did? If not, how do you propose he explains his protections daily and the fact he is still alive? I'll answer your question with two questions. a) Would you shoot him if you were mafia? b) How do you expect us to catch him lying about his protections? If he's scum, he already has all the information needed to misprotect every night, mafia can even leave someone who should be a "good" target alive and Drazerk can claim that protection. Even if Drazerk tells us who he's protecting right before day breaks it changes very little. The only roles that can in any way allow us to deduce anything about Drazerk's alignment are tracker and watcher. Not to mention I find the role very unconventional compared to other roles revealed this game (Town Jack, Town Floridian and two Vanilla Town) | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 00:51 vaderseven wrote: Palmar why are you assuming anyone in their right mind would take you serious when at the time you were RNGing, trolling, and lieing? It really bothers me that you would even suggest that your suggestion of draz was a real piece of input. Coming from someone who takes me seriously enough to roleclaim in panic and shoot the next lurker without any discussion, I find this question irrelevant. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 16:33 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh wait...in Palmar's "sign-off post", he makes it very clear that no-lynch is preferable to killing townies! Also makes it clear, again, for the third or fourth time (I lost count), that anyone voting for him is bad/stupid/new or scum. I'm not scum, and I was voting for him. If you're not scum, then you can probably cross that off the list, as well as new! | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 14:41 annul wrote: i just asked and was told someone medic'd me. <3. ok so reds have 3 kp then Hi annul, why would any medic protect you over... say.... the vigilante who was on your ass during the night and died? Nevermind the fact that he was obvious town too? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 17:28 Drazerk wrote: I protected V7 annul has another method to keep alive. Explain your thought process behind this. To me v7 looks like a vastly inferior target to for example syllogism? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:05 VisceraEyes wrote: Draz, who cares what scum thinks of your choice of targets? Just vote for him and laugh knowingly until he flips scum. That's my advice. Are you trying to exploit the fact that you generally tunnel me as town to hide something? You're not even trying to look genuine, or at least give anything a second thought. Do you believe annul's claim of being shot? Do you agree with me that it's very likely syllogism shot him? Do you agree that it's very unlikely a medic would choose annul as his target? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:16 Refallen wrote: For what it's worth, I'm leaning to Palmar being townie atm. I agree with him that annul's claim of being saved by a medic is suspicious, though I'm not sure if syllo shot him or not. As he says, there are better targets for a medic to be chosen. Read syllo's filter during the night. And then trust me on the fact that syllo does have the confidence to fire night 1. I actually read the day post and went "wtf, syllo didn't shoot?" until I saw annul's claim. That paired with the fact syllo was on annul's ass during the night makes me believe annul's claim is actually true and that syllogism did shoot him. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:33 Refallen wrote: If that's the case, and annul is scum, what do you make of his saying mafia has 3kp? Where did the last kp go? Did someone get saved or did Mafia doublestack? I'm assuming that if you got saved as town you should declare it as I feel like that would be helpful for town. I assume mafia has 2kp and annul is lying. Just think about it, the game already has abnormally high number of mafia (5 would be normal in a 25 player setup, not 6). If mafia has 6 players and 3 kp, they can rape town very fast. Which is why I asked at the beginning of the game how syllogism thought the game was balanced. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:46 Refallen wrote: One more question Palmar, what do you think of Drazerk at the moment? I know you thought he was scum earlier in the middle of day 1 (which you never really elaborated on). With his role claim at night and now that Day 2 has arrived, what do you think about him now? I think he's useless, and given that I think annul should be the guy we're talking about today I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I cannot be certain of his alignment either way at this moment. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:15 TruthBringer wrote: I made a decision at the start of this new day that I would give Palmar a second chance to prove his townliness, but as I suspected he would, he started day 2 off being just as worthless as he was on day 1. Some guardian angels saved him yesterday when he was receiving lots of votes ("let's switch to zero suspicion hier!") Bring it on, try and save him again without giving yourselves away. ##vote Palmar Such a safe vote, I wonder if you're just ignorant, or if you're being maliciously ignorant. You will be called out on this so you better be damn sure you know what you're doing. If you're town, you haven't read the game well enough, and you're actively sabotaging your team. If you're scum I don't really care. I wonder how you were expecting me to play day 2? I think I've brought up very valid points regarding annul's claim and syllo's death. But apparently to you that's being useless. Did you even read what I posted before throwing your vote and opinion out like that? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Explain the bolded. I've been genuinely suspicious of you all game. I'm not trying to hide anything - it's some kind of massive coincidence that you just happen to look town in games I'm not playing and suddenly turn into Trolly McFuckstick every time I'm in a game with you...either that or you do the shit on purpose. But judging from your play this game, if you're town I'll eat my own shit. I'm not sure what I think of Annul's claim. Right now I can't be bothered because YOU are going to hang today. Call it my mission. Syllo was at least mildly suspicious of Annul, and I wouldn't be surprised if syllo shot Annul. But no, I don't think it's "very unlikely" a medic would protect annul...in fact, if I were a medic, annul would be on my tertiary protect list by virtue of being active and scumhunting, yet NOT known for strong results. You see, every experienced player stayed the hell away from my wagon because it's pretty obvious I was goofing around early day one. Yet you tunneled in on me very, very early in the game, never giving it as much as a second thought. I am looking forward to you eating your own shit though, although I think it's quite vulgar, please don't take any pictures. Yes, I troll you. I dislike your style of scumhunting because you always look at what happens, instead of thinking about what it means. For example, syllogism who is arguably the best town player on TL, correctly deduced that while I was being dumb and useless, there was nothing in it that made me mafia. Sure, it made me useless, but useless doesn't mean mafia. You on the other hand automatically assume that since I am unhelpful, I must be mafia, which is faulty logic, and probably the reason you have such a hard time hunting scum. And that's why I troll you, and why I'm sometimes a dick to you. This is written in case you happen to be town, in hopes you actually give your stance a second thought, because you're not helping at the moment. I cannot possibly deduce your alignment, because I think you're smart enough to know that tunneling me basically frees you from further scrutiny if you are scum, because your terrible meta assumes you tunnel me, no matter of my alignment. In addition, re-read the last paragraph in your post. Notice how you're completely disregarding a very important part of the game because you're so tunneled in on me. Of the four big names this game (rad, sand, me, syllo) Syllogism looked by far the most pro-town. I was trolling, sandroba was lurking and radfield was being not so useful. Why on earth would any medic who's not already affiliated with annul, pick annul over syllogism as n1 target? Syllo probably dies more often than Radfield and I on night 1. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:36 TruthBringer wrote: That's what the game is all about, being suspicious. Everybody was asking themselves the same things. Did annul really get shot or is he trying to trick people into thinking he is a good guy? Your analysis just sidetracks the issue. We don't know the mafia KP. We don't know if syllogism shot annul. Who cares? Even if syllo shot annul, that doesn't mean annul is good or bad. Syllo was a vigi, he didn't know the role of anybody he shot. Your posts are consistently doing the same thing, exploring irrelevant avenues to deliberately shift the focus from scumhunting. Then there are the frequent, "you suck" style posts. Yes, Palmar, I am the one actively sabotaging the town, not YOU. The important issue is the fact that it make zero sense to protect annul in this situation. I full well believe annul got shot during the night, there is no reason for him to claim it if he didn't get hit. Looking at how I'd assume this game is balanced, I simply cannot believe mafia has 3kp on top of their already unusually high numbers. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:59 TruthBringer wrote: Maybe you should state your conclusions in order to be a little bit more helpful rather than sidetracking the issue. So . . . "the important issue is the fact that it make zero sense to protect annul in this situation," therefore . . . redff is mafia (for example). What is the point of going down this path if going down the path does us no good? Is your point that some medic did a bad job? Good point. Everybody let's agree that one of the medics did a bad job last night. No, my point is that barring further evidence, I have a reason to believe annul was protected by a scumdoc. The reason I'm being ambiguous is that apparently when I'm straight to the point people panic and shoot townies. I don't think a medic did a bad job. I don't think any town medic who actually read the interchange between syllogism and annul during the night would even consider protecting annul. My point is that I think annul is mafia. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 21:26 redFF wrote: Palmar's defense of himself doesn't even address the points made against him. His defense basically consists of calling everyone who votes him bad while falling back on a dead confirmed town not thinking he was mafia. Except syllo never said palmar wasn't scum, the closest he came to talking about palmar's alignment was "i hope you're not mafia" or something like that. Palmar's mentioning of how all the good players stayed away from his wagon day 1 serves to make any of the newer players stay away from voting him because it would make them "bad". dude has done no scumhunting and has been attempting to fuck up any pro-town atmosphere we try to create. ##Vote Palmar sorry if I'm terrible. I've addressed everything that isn't VisceraEyes's case, because that one is really stretching it (read it yourself). I pressured v7 because I didn't believe he was taking notes, because of the inconsistency between him being willing to paste stuff directly from them regarding radfield, and then refusing syllogism's request for the notes based on them not being formatted well enough. Remember, before he shot Soap I had confirmed to him I retracted my claim, he even specifically asked and I answered. Before the shot. Syllogism says that shit all the time because he doesn't want to look like an idiot if I flip scum. Read his filter if you're in doubt he was willing to soft-defend or straight up defend me. Yes I fucked around, does that make me scum? You should know better than this redFF. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 22:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar continues to discredit by dismissal. VE continues to not be surprised. Details at 11. You were asked about your other scumreads. How about you pull your head out of your ass and answer that? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 22:18 prplhz wrote: @Radfield I already answered that question in my Mattchew analysis. Some points I'd like everybody to consider: On Palmar Palmar was being attacked all night long by VisceraEyes and he hadn't escaped suspicion by a lot of other people even though his bandwagon was very suddenly abandoned yesterday. Why would Palmar as scum shoot syllogism, when syllogism not only found the case on Palmar very weak, he was also one of the most townie players in this game so far? Why would Palmar shoot supersoft, who game after game does not stop sheeping Palmar and thinking he is innocent, this game included? In face of serious accusations, Palmar decided to shoot his two biggest supporters in town. This makes no sense. On annul Why would annul claim if there was a scum medic protecting him? Because if there is another vigilante and not syllogism who shot him, then that person would immediately know he's scum from not claiming. He could gamble that syllogism took the shot, but there is no way of knowing if that's right or wrong. In addition, generally when people claim shots, it gives them town credit. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
The first thing you do when townies die, is to re-read the game with the knowledge they're town. Town lost cosmic horror because after the most pro-town people were dead, town ignored everything we said. I didn't say a word about annul until syllo flipped. But if you read their exchange during the night, the fact that annul claims a shot and annul's generally worse posting than in XLVII, I think you'll come to the same conclusion as me. Notice that in XLVII there was a fuckton of controversial stuff surrounding me as well, but in that game annul was one of the people who easily saw past the clusterfuck that was town, and managed to make sense of the situation. This game he seems to be pretty happy riding a fairly dumb train onto me. ##Vote annul Regarding your analysis against Mattchew, I think there's not enough information from him on the table to accurately judge him at the moment. He did make the right call when he flat out refused to vote for me, that doesn't mean he's town though, because scum know my alignment. I think killing off annul is going to clear up a lot of issues. Especially regarding my own alignment. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote: I actually agree here. If I were a medic I probably would have protected rad or annul. I was sitting there yesterday, looking at rads list and thoubt about our options. Syllo was kind of weird. Everyone said he's doing fine but I can't see a lot he did for town, so he was a nullread for me. Palmar was not going to be shot no matter what. He screwed day1 and still a lot of people think he's mafia (he calls them bad but players but still). Why would mafia want to hit that? What's left on rads list would be me, rad and annul. As I'm talking about what I would have done as medic I obviously am not able to protect myself. So it would be either rad or annul. Yeah a close one, I think rad's more important if he's town but some people attacked him and called him out. While palmar gets called out mostly by new players those guys who question his style are more experienced players. I think red, jackal and erandorr kinda-a-fosed him? So I'd either protected rad or hoped they let him live because there's some people attacking him. This goes out to V7: Annul claimed he got shot and protected. Did you get shot and protected? Dza... already claimed he protected you so if you got shot as well it would be some weird 3KP mafia + vigi which makes 4 KP (syllo, ss, annul, V7). Right now it looks like annul was the 3rd KP of mafia or shot by a vigi or he's a liar. Your answer to that question would at least give us some information V7. Syllo was far more pro-town than anyone else on Rad's list. I think I said back on day 1 I was willing to sheep him because I had a strong town read on him. As for the v7 thing, that doesn't even make sense. v7 would already have claimed it if he was hit. Trust me on this one, mafia does not have 3kp in this setup. They have 2kp and annul was shot by a vigilante, and I think that vigilante was mr. syllogism. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 22:53 Toadesstern wrote: Why do you think mafia got 2KP? The usual thing is (#mafia / 2) rounded up so I thought it's not that far-fetched to believe they got 3KP. Also vigi's can't shoot n1 can they? Last game (the 80player thing) I was a vigi for the first time and it specifically said I can't shoot n1 and I had to wait until n2 to shoot the fuck out of Drazerk. The usual amount of mafia in a 25 player game is 5, which is probably why we have things like my double vote, as the mafia are 6 in this game. And your last game was the exception, vigilantes can always shoot night 1 unless specified otherwise (and there is no limitation of any sort in syllo's role, except him only being able to fire one shot per night). | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 23:01 Toadesstern wrote: Do mafias have 2 KP like you said in those 25v5 setups or 3KP? That's the important question. in 20 vs 5 mafia usually has 3 kp until 1 mafia is dead, although it's not a rule. in 19 v 6, I have a hard time mafia KP rule applies because it means we'd have to kill 2 mafia to get it down to 2 kp. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 23:07 vaderseven wrote: kingjames, keep in mind that when palmar started his whole lie that there was a small wag,on forming on me for voting corrupt. I said my notes are bad and then he lied to push the issue. He was never in danger of being labeled the start of a wagon. What he did was lie in the optertunistic fashion possible and then trolled till the days end to avoid getting lynched. A town player would have just voted for me as that would have most certainly placed me in the running for being lynched. He is a lair, he is purposefully unhelpful, and he is scum. His play during the night was a calculated move to transition to a non troll state to avoid a policy lynch situation today. Two issues with this post. One is that simply voting you and moving on is actually very anti-town. All I wanted was to get you to post your notes, as has been pointed out multiple times. I didn't want you lynched, I wanted to know your alignment and check if you were lying about the notes. The second is that you call my transition to normal play a calculated move, I wonder what I could have done in order to get you to start believing I'm town? Or are you just that far tunneled in because you're projecting your anger at yourself for being rash yesterday onto me, that you're clinging to the desperate hope I'm scum so you can have some justification, if only to call me bad. I assume that if I kept trolling, you'd have said I was scum too, and when I stopped trolling, I'm also scum. What are the requirements for you to actually give the game a second read? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 23:15 Toadesstern wrote: Ok next thing came to my mind: How likely is it that there's two different medic roles in this game? Drazerk claimed he's a RB-immun-Medic that has to claim n1 as far as I recall. At least that's the reason he claimed I think. He said he protected V7 and yet we have, according to annul a successful save that's not V7. So that means we got a 2nd medic in this game if both claims are correct. The 2nd medic however does not seem to have to claim like Drazerk did. On top of that I still think mafia would like to get something like V7's role out of this game. A dayvig that's able to also do other stuff is pretty awesome. Radfield already mentioned the Chances of a Mafia visit on V7 are like 99%. Do you really think mafia let's a claimed blue role that has already proven that he's not bullshitting alive? Drazerk's claim may as well be bollocks. If you think I troll mafia games, you should read Drazerk's history of playing. It doesn't even tell us anything about his alignment if he's lying. However, after what has happened I'm more willing to believe he's not scum, although trying to tell his alignment is kinda.... meh. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 23:40 Zephirdd wrote: Right off the bat, it's clear that he won't follow any advices regarding his playstyle. When town was told to worry about establishing innocence, redFF goes straight into an aggressive instance voting on Palmar before all the bullshit. Every single post of his is a bad post. filter. One-line, simple, double-posting(to generate volume on the filter), mostly zero content. Reminds me of someone on another game. Not a scumtell. Being aggressive and independent is if anything more likely to be something townies do. While his case on me was terribly forced because there was no content to analyse, it doesn't automatically make him scum. Not to mention, the game you're pointing to, Serejai was town. His "tunneling" of Corrupt ceased very soon, he didn't push him any more than after the huge post Corrupt made, despite "still being suspicious of him". It just goes with my idea that Corrupt is also scum. You can't determine anything about anyone from the actions of others, if you allow yourself that, then you're opening up a new arsenal of weapons for scum. Analyze each one of them individually, but not together. He goes on of how much we need a lynch of some sort, and then goes with this Exactly how much is that true? I don't disagree that it was good to lynch Hier, but how is not being on a wagon anti-town and not anti-scum? What bugs me the most is how much thought he puts into his posts: none. He doesn't expand on that thought and doesn't explain why a no-lynch would be bad in his opinion, not even to echo somebody's else opinion. Putting no thought into your posts concludes the person is trolling, dumb, or an asshole. None of these can be directly associated with that person being scum. Later, he goes back to Palmar, not because he "thinks he is scummy", but because "he is fucking around and is detrimental to town. plus we need a lynch."; Inconsistency to fit what looked like the easiest wagon at the time. And of course he switches to Hier in order to achieve that lynch, that was soooo useful for town. Some people hold the belief that a lynch must always be achieved very highly. Many of those people do it as town too. Corrupt then tries a mildly bad case on him during the night, that is just answered with an all-caps post. Nobody picks it, and they move on - Corrupt doesn't continue with it, everything is gone and people just ignore both. Stop creating links you cannot know exist. Day 2 had his best posts all game long: appealing to new players the same way he says Palmar did. He even tells how Palmar has done no scumhunting and is trying to fuck up any pro-town atmosphere "we" try to create, when in fact his own posts aren't creating any town atmosphere and even warranted a couple of mod warnings. Grats, you've successfully proven redFF is a moron. That doesn't make him scum. redFF is scum If you don't think so, at least take your time to take a close look at his actions, and ask yourself whether those actions are good for town or not. My vote goes to him, obviously. Now go put your vote on annul. I'm not ruling out the possibility of redFF being scum, there just isn't any concrete evidence for it at the moment, so I think you'd do much more good voting for annul. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 07 2011 23:43 vaderseven wrote: Can we lease stop wifoming the night kills? It accomplishes nothing. The bottom line is that, gasp, every single night the scum will attempt to hit, you guessed it, town. Seeing as they know who the scum are its really not hard for them to choose a correct target. Any other speculation on thier choices is wifon to the largest degree. You're wrong, but that's ok. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 00:58 sandroba wrote: Palmar bro you need to stop posting reason and yell at people in all caps. It's clearly the only way it works. How about song lyrics and dramatic speeches? It can't be all coincidence Too many things are evident You tell me you're an unbeliever? Spiritualist? Well me I'm neither Wouldn't you like to know the truth Of what's out there to have the proof And find out just which side you're on Where would you end in Heaven or in Hell? Citizens of Liquidia! Today is a day to remember, because today the true colors of the residents of town will be shown. Who will dare stand up against the Mafia and make the right choice? Remember that we must each reach the conclusion on our own while working against a highly organized team of evildoers. Remember today, once night falls it is upon each individual in this town to analyze what happened here today, and more than any other day, today is the day where the lines are drawn. Today you choose a side, today you show yourself as a valuable member of town or worthless scum seeking only to spread distrust while slowly taking our lives, one by one. Every single person will be held accountable to their actions today. Every single person will be remembered for what they did here today, for good or for bad. Remember today! Palmar or annul | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 01:07 hyshes wrote: I'm going to vote for palmar. I don't like the bandwagon on annul by those players. The fact that palmar is so pushing heavy makes him the right lynch to me. In 157 letters you managed to make two logical errors. a) You cannot deduce anything about a person's alignment by other people's reactions to their posts. b) Trying to spearhead lynches is generally not a scumtell. This pains me because I think you're town, your posts during the night feel simply out of place if you're scum, unless of course the decision to kill syllo was made after his row with annul. But please, re-think your stance. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
So it's you! I'm surprised, your day 1 play was actually quite solid. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:24 Zephirdd wrote: Palmar, you starded the black-and-white stuff. IF annul is lynched and flips green, can we jump on your ass and chop you out of the game no problem? Would you take that risk to lynch annul, are you that sure that he is scum? yes. barring a medic claim from a person I'm willing to believe, I am that certain. If annul flips green I'll take all the blame, if part of that is to be lynched I'll accept that. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 09:46 prplhz wrote: @Radfield PYP:Interesting, you were only wrong about one guy during that entire game. I only played with you in that game and in LotR where you were scum. I guess my claim is mostly based on your reputation which might be better than you are, but I was pretty impressed with you in PYP:Interesting and you were obviously town to everybody after day0, in this game you're wobbly even during day2. I supposed there was a reason why chaoser shot you night2 in LotR. How the hell can you say that VisceraEyes is "Maybe town", the guy has been tunneling the same person all game long and that person is on your town list rofl. As funny as it is, Nothing VisceraEyes has done says much about his alignment. I'm off to bed, spent all night playing dota 2. I'll give you my thoughts tomorrow. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
It's time. You don't always catch scum in the same way. There is, for example, no traditional way of catching Kenpachi or Coagulation as scum, because they will not, regardless of their alignment, provide us with content that can be broken down and analyzed through post by post analysis. That is not to say you can't catch people who play unconventionally as scum. While annul doesn't write long, well explained posts, no matter his alignment, it's the content and direction, as well as the intention of these posts that give a player away. I think annul is a good player, he doesn't give himself away every single post. But it's rather the overall playstyle that reeks of scum. Let's look at why annul is scum: For convenience, here is his entire filter: Clicky There is not much to be had on annul's alignment from his initial posting. He is mostly correct in his thoughts, simply because arguing such mundane things as "should we use lists or not" is not something that can give away people's alignments. No matter their opinion on such things. The first post that stuck out to me was this: On December 05 2011 06:04 annul wrote: im still waiting for purple haze to address his blue claim. if i saw it, mafia surely saw it too. and i saw it immediately. ;\ This is regarding prplhz's sentence: "Just want to sit around and wait for power roles to do our job" Here's the deal, this is in no way a blue claim, and as soon as prplhz denies it being one, the issue should be ignored, yet even quite a bit later annul is still wondering about a trivial issue. The sentence can easily be read from the point of view of prplhz being town and "our job" referring to finding mafia, not blues using their abilities. Why does annul want to stick with this? Because it gives him an excuse to contribute nothing, which has been a hallmark of his play this game. On December 05 2011 06:10 annul wrote: people NEED to be aware that he blueslipped there. it changes everything. What the shit is a blueslip, there is no such thing. He denied it referring to him being blue, and that should be taken at facevalue. It changes exactly nothing, annul is just staying on his road of "If I tunnel this, I don't have to contribute". Just so I point it out, annul's vote on Drazerk, followed by his switch to Soap gives us no indication of his alignment. Let's talk some more about how to avoid contributing and draw bad conclusions: On December 06 2011 03:02 annul wrote: im still waiting to see if soap actually flips from v7's shot or if this is a grand troll by everybody if soap actually flips anything nonred i'm instavoting palmar and not unvoting What has Soap's alignment to do with me? I called him my homeboy, so if I'm right I must be scum? Where's the logic here. I did not ask for Soap to be shot, the whole issue has nothing to do with me. I retracted my claim before the shot was fired, and confirmed it. The decision was a rash, bad decision from v7, against a person that I had no intention of getting shot. As syllogism so brilliantly put it: On December 06 2011 03:05 syllogism wrote: So you are saying palmar is scum, vader is town and palmar used his psychic powers to determine that vader is a town day vig and would shoot Soap instead of, say, himself? Of course, this doesn't stop annul with following through with his completely illogical train of thought, because that's a favorite thing of mafia, to not use logic and just run with stuff. On December 06 2011 06:10 annul wrote: wow. you have to be kidding me. ##vote palmar Now, please recheck annul's filter ( here ) and scroll down to where he votes me. Notice how sharply his contribution rate has fallen. Not only that, but there is also NO effort at scumhunting at all. He literally hasn't accused anyone of anything since he decided I was red. There is no substance. I think the closest thing was calling Jackal a moron. He hasn't even pushed a case against me today. The bottom line, is that in addition to the complete lack of scumhunting, the complete lack of contributions, annul claimed to have been saved by a medic, from a shot I am all but certain was fired by syllogism, makes me have a very strong feeling this guy is scum. On December 08 2011 01:36 annul wrote: why the fuck is palmar of all people leading a wagon on ME of all people? did you all forget the shit he pulled yesterday? letting palmar run shit = outed jack and a dead green Notice, there is not logical reason for not listening to me, it's just the fact that because I'm aggressive and v7 panicked, I must by extension not be trusted. Annul is clinging onto the notion that disregarding me by referring to the misfired shot yesterday, he can discredit me enough so that I won't be listened to. I'm still waiting on anything that can count as contribution from annul today. I think it's also very bad for town to try and push the issue aside. If we allow the mafia do deflect the annul lynch onto a random townie (Radfield, I'm looking at you), we both eliminate the chance that we hit mafia today, and we cause town to be in exactly the same situation tomorrow. It's probably a better idea to lynch me, because at least that will validate everything I'm saying, not like mafia is gonna let me live after the night if annul dies. With 15 townies alive and 6 mafia, we need 11 townies to make the correct decision. The correct decision is to lynch annul today. I was useless on day 1, please accept this scum as a token of my regret. Annul is mafia ##Vote annul | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 05:11 Radfield wrote: EBWOP: If annul was NOT shot last night(ie, did not claim a hit), would you still be wanting him lynched? I think my latest post answers your question. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 22:24 prplhz wrote: @Palmar Why didn't annul claim veteran? How do you feel about vaderseven? You know the guy has played forum mafia for years right, he isn't supposed to panic in a situation where he has confirmed that he's not in any immediate danger. Annul might be forced to claim a role later in the game. There might be trackers, watchers, role cops and probably some other roles that can disprove him being a veteran. I would literally role-cop him immediately on night 3 if I was a rolecop. v7's play is very weird, if he's indeed a veteran it makes him look pretty bad. However, I think his anger towards me for pushing him looks pretty genuine, although it's obviously not very well thought out. In addition, I liked the fact he tried to communicate his Jack claim prior to straight up claiming, that looks like something townies would probably do more often than mafia. I have interest in getting him lynched today, and probably not ever. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 22:42 Toadesstern wrote: I still like my Erandorr case way more for the same reasons I already said yesterday. Those people on Annul right now are just not the most confirmed townies around to put it that way. That wagon formed so fast although it came to a halt that I just got a bad feeling of mafia influence here. I mean I got a case on erandorr and he's on Annul. That's not a good sign for me. Drazerk who's still a liar to me until he gets a confirmed save is not exactly the kind of guy I'd like on a bus as well. Just look at erandorr for a second palmar. That guy did everything I expected, did a bigger post to protect himself and started one-liners right afterwards. I called him out for this behaviour, he made a bigger post in which he admits that his filter looks pretty damning but finishes along the lines "well but I'm a townie and I am really sorry I'm screwing town right now! I am willing to help you guys no matter what just shoot me a question". So people came along hugging him like a little baby that's told that it's not his fault and that everything's going to be okay. Guess what? I asked him a simple question straight away after his post. He still hasn't answered, still somehow people think he's looking more town now with his most recent post because I guess people feel sorry for him. This is a cheap trick. The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates. I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia. And I just gave you mafia. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 22:43 prplhz wrote: So scum do not get angry at people pushing them and threatening to shoot them or what? And townies do? And townies shoot people in the face for no reason? Since he probably is a Jack, does that in any way make it more likely that he is town? Why wouldn't a scum Jack try to breadcrumb his role? His reason for breadcrumbing it was that you were a dayvig, and he thought he could convince you that he was one too by breadcrumbing, but he isn't a dayvig. He's a Jack. How does that make any sense? At that point he was in a pretty stressful situation so I don't read much into that, I just don't think there's anything about his behavior during that entire thing that indicates that he's town and I think it's weird that you feel so strongly about him being town. If there's any medic out there who protected annul and it looks like he's about to get lynched and you think he's a more valuable player than you are, then you should claim. I don't think any player who would have protected annul last night could be any more valuable than him, so I think that it is weird that annul doesn't want the medic to claim at any point. annul thinks highly of himself so it is weird that he doesn't think he's more important that some medic, he's been pretty vocal about how the medic must not claim. It's not the fact that he got angry, it's how he got angry. And no, I think a scumjack wouldn't have attempted to communicate with me like that, but instead called me out. I might be wrong, I'm not always right (just most of the time), but I feel that it's irrelevant as of now. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Him calling out Radfield for his stance on annul doesn't seem scummy at all to me, and he already took his own stance (voting annul). Yes he hasn't been a beacon of obvious town, but I don't think your case which basically consists of meta to his last game, ignoring for example mini mafia x, where he played an equally useless town, is stronger than the current case on annul. How certain are you that Errandor is scum? I think we have a weak case against Errandor, a non-existant bullshit case against prplhz, and a very, very strong case against annul. I think we should be lynching annul. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 22:59 Toadesstern wrote: EBWOP: You're even contradicting yourself wtf. So you're saying when it's not okay to not lynch annul because of what other people think about him but it's okay to do so with erandorr after a lynch? Woah, are you intentionally being thick? There is no way to tell anything about the alignment of a person being bandwagoned or followed by looking at the people following them. This is because you cannot scumhunt against player a based on the actions of player b. Thus you cannot deduce annul's alignment by looking at who's voting for him. However, you can deduce a player's alignment by looking at whom he's voting for. Because in that scenario you're evaluating player a's alignment based on the actions of player a. To make it simple: Annul is not responsible for the people voting him, and I'm not responsible for the people sheeping my case (which everyone should be doing). Thus: The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. Errandor is however responsible for his own vote, and his own decision for following me, thus: I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his [Errandor's] alignment by lynching annul. If you fail to see the difference of people being responsible for their own actions, and people being responsible for other's actions, I'm not sure I can help you. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:19 Mattchew wrote: Woah, are you intentionally being thick? He's saying that you cant say "don't look at who votes annul" followed by "watch how erandorr votes" Why not? If toad thinks Erandorr is mafia, and Erandorr votes for annul, that should have no impact on whether or not the case against annul is valid, because Erandorr isn't annul, they're seperate people. Toad could be wrong about Erandorr, I could be wrong about annul, and Erandorr could be bussing annul. You cannot read anything about whether or not the annul wagon is valid based on who is on it. However, while the fact Erandorr votes for annul says nothing about annul, it does say a lot about Erandorr, because... Erandorr is Erandorr. I don't get what's complicated about this. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:29 hyshes wrote: @palmar Common.. what kind of logic is this? If i have suspicon about all the people voting for annul.. no way i'm going to vote with them. At that moment it doesn't matter what kind of case there is. I'm just not voting on anyone together with players i don't trust. Anyways, i'm not voting anyone you push forward. I'm going to follow toad's case on errandor here. If you have a justified reason to believe the people voting annul are scum, then it's very likely the case on it's own should be too weak to follow anyway. So yes, this is logic. It's simply incorrect to dismiss a case based on the presumption that some players presenting or supporting the case might be scum, if the case is valid enough it should be followed. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:38 Toadesstern wrote: First of all, you just said it. Even if you're right and annul is mafia there's no new read on erandorr. The guy voted for annul after something like 4 votes were on him after an incredible fast time? If you're right this could be a bus and this gives me 0 information about erandorr. How am I supposed to to gauge erandorrs alignment based on the flip? This is incredible wifom to the max. Erandorr could be a townie sheeping you if annul is red. (or he came to the same conclusion without telling us) Erandorr could be a townie sheeping you if annul is green. (or he came to the same conclusion without telling us) Erandorr could be a mafia bussing annul if annul is red. Erandorr could be a mafia getting a green-lynch if annul is green. That's when you apply the "it's not what people do, but how they do it, that should be looked at" rule. If you're town, please come back and re-read this entire thing because you're being so wrong and bad at the moment that if you somehow justify your arguments to yourself, you will never improve. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:34 annul wrote: "Here's the deal, this is in no way a blue claim," maybe you just dont speak english or understand ambiguity in pronouns, i dunno. pretty sure we established what exactly i saw and pretty sure the other alternative interpretation was brought forward. pretty sure we dropped it a while ago. so there goes the first half of your "case" lol "What the shit is a blueslip, there is no such thing." i explained it, if you actually read my filter i said a while ago that it was analogous to a scumslip. "What has Soap's alignment to do with me? I called him my homeboy, so if I'm right I must be scum?" it has to do with you forcing a jack to blow his wad for absolutely no reason. really dumb move. "He hasn't even pushed a case against me today." you are right about this. it would be so easy, too. at one point it was 5-4 me:you (5-5 if i voted). and i didnt act like a complete anti-town tard on day 1. i could have you lynched so easily. the time when i actually decide to go all out logic and debate on someone they never recover. "annul claimed to have been saved by a medic, from a shot I am all but certain was fired by syllogism, " this has what exactly to do with my alignment? like the bottom line is palmar has a maaaaaaaaaaaassively strong meta to blindly OMGUS anyone who pressures him for any reason. of course now is no different. No, there is no thing as a blueslip, you're pulling prplhz's very simple sentence out of context. Remember, English isn't his first language, and isn't mine either, so he should be given the benefit of the doubt. What's interesting about the Soap thing is... how would you have reacted if Soap flipped scum? Wouldn't that make me even more likely to be scum, given how I'd been defending him? The reason it has nothing to do with my alignment is that a) you knew he'd flip green, and b) you'd have considered me scum either way. If he flipped red, you'd have called me scum for defending me, if he flipped green you'd have called me scum anyway, as you clearly stated yourself. And no, you can't get me lynched, you don't have any logic that can help you survive this because I have right on my side. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:43 hyshes wrote: You got a point there. But in this case it's void. The case against annul is from you and you are the untrustworthy one, together with the rest of these voters on annul. Of course I have a point. I'm not untrustworthy until you can prove I'm untrustworthy. So make a case against me and try to get me lynched, or support me otherwise. You have to explain why my case is wrong if you're not gonna support it. You can't just say "Palmar's kinda scummy so I'm not supporting it, and gonna go with that random lurker instead". I said it in that speech.... People will be remembered for what they do here today. How do you want your legacy to be? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:49 Toadesstern wrote: okay give it a try, enlighten me and explain me where I'm wrong here becaue I can't see it. I'd say all 4 make sense because "how" erandorr was doing it was " ! Vote" and that's it. That's why I put sheeping in the top 2 ones instead of what I have in brackets. However the same thing could happen when bussing or trying to get a green-lynch because this is, again, wifom. I'm standing by my point that there's no informationgain on erandorr, at all. Well, assuming annul died exactly now and flipped scum, I would say there is very much a bigger chance that Errandor is town. First of all, he voted to kill scum. Now I cannot rule out the chance of mafia bussing, but generally the obvious solution is the correct one. People who like to kill mafia are generally not mafia. Then you apply the how. Notice that all through Erandorr's play this game he has decided to buddy pretty hard up to me and sheep my reasonings for things. He's not a recent convert to the cult of Palmar, he helped get my head off the chopping block on day 1 too. He without question joined my case on day 2, very early on before it was apparent annul was going to be a serious contender. I think the timing of his vote, and how he presented it is very unlikely for mafia to do. So there, while you cannot conclude anything 100%, I just gave you an explanation of how Errandor voting annul, and annul flipping scum, should affect how we read Erandorr's gameplay. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:49 Toadesstern wrote: okay give it a try, enlighten me and explain me where I'm wrong here becaue I can't see it. I'd say all 4 make sense because "how" erandorr was doing it was " ! Vote" and that's it. That's why I put sheeping in the top 2 ones instead of what I have in brackets. However the same thing could happen when bussing or trying to get a green-lynch because this is, again, wifom. I'm standing by my point that there's no informationgain on erandorr, at all. I didn't try to claim town credit for that, you are obviously correct that it says nothing about my alignment. I'm not trying to defend my alignment here, I'm defending my case. If I did somewhere directly claim that somehow Soap flipping green made me less likely to be scum, please point that out to me. But annul's actions around that speak out about his alignment. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:55 Mattchew wrote: Palmar, would you go Lynch for Lynch with Annul. If he flips town you get lynched next? Yes. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:59 Mattchew wrote: you realize last time you did this... ace flipped town and you backed out Of course, I'm not allowed to play against my win condition per the rules. It's up to the town to uphold the deal, not me. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
I'll gladly help you lynch Radfield later. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:16 Mattchew wrote: I actually wanted annul's reaction. I knew you would say yes lol haha | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:14 Jackal58 wrote: I can't really. I don't fully agree with your case on Annul nor do I fully believe you are town. I will say I think both of you are horrible lynch targets for today. If you're really town let's not wait til later on Rad. If you present a strong enough case and can convince people to kill radfield, I don't think I would oppose killing him today. My preferable target remains annul though. We need 4 more people voting for Annul to get him killed, I think. Although I'm not sure exactly how my extra vote works in that regard. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:26 redFF wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Palmar the slowness of this wagon and the amount of protest from people like prplhz and his awful case against annul is enough. Explain where the case is awful. And would you be more comfortable voting annul if the wagon was faster? I'm asking because normally I hear people throw around ideas that fast-building wagons are scummy, but now you say slow building wagons are scummy? Say, what rate would you prefer the wagon to get going at? Or did you just throw that in there to justify your vote on me? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:41 Toadesstern wrote: The problem is that it went incredible fast early on (the first 6 votes) and stopped there for 24 hours. Do you really think 4 people are sheeping you that hard to just vote like this without an explanation? Don't you think mafia would have hoped on that wagon sometimes yesterday no matter annuls alignment? If you're really right with your case I would not want to touch annul with a pole from here to whereever he lives. If you're wrong mafia would love to get on that wagon to see a townie dead without doing a thing (that is if you're town) and would have hoped on there not right from the beginning but surely sometime. Because I can't see one of that happening I'm saying that there's already 1 or 2 mafias who hopped on that wagon from the very beginning along with some sheeping townies. As I explained earlier, looking at things like this has no value towards the case. Mafia could bandwagon a fellow mafia to get exactly this reaction from you. I say it once again, you cannot deduce anything about anyone by looking at the reactions of someone else, you should read the person, and only that person. Read the case, agree or disagree with it. Ignore everything but exactly the content of the case. I'm more than fine with you pushing your own case, but at the end of the day, if you fail to secure enough support for your case, you should take a firm stance towards the leading two cases. If for some reason the annul lynch fails, I will myself be forced to look at alternative cases. However, at this rate I don't expect it to. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:46 hyshes wrote: lol @sandroba.. so palmar's way isn't working to force this lynch through our throat.. so you come in out of the blue just to tell that palmars case is great? I for sure am not falling for that one. No one is trying to get you to fall for anything. All I ask is you read the case presented. Actually, here's a trick for you: read the case twice, once assuming I'm right, and once assuming I'm wrong. And tell me which feels better. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:55 Toadesstern wrote: First of all I kind of agree with what you said about looking into people rather that what other people think about people. I still think my wifom example is right and actually it kind of shows it. However I still think you're overconfident right now and you're makeing a bigger deal of it than it is in reality. But yeah at the end of the day I will look at what we got and decide where my vote is most useful. I hope you're doing the same. Secondly I do not think mafia would bus a mafia buddy just to make them me think what I said, but that's another box to open that's not going to help here :p That's a fair opinion, because now you're using the correct mindset to disagree with me. If you genuinely think the case doesn't prove annul is scum, I don't have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is throwaway reasons like "this wagon is bad", because that doesn't address the situation at hand. And yes, as I said, if this falls apart I am forced to look at other options. However, remember that I am awesome and almost always right. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
2. I am leaning town on him at the moment, the way he argues with an open mind seems pretty towny to me, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Only reason I'm still up is I wanna see what he comes up with. I'm not going to be around to argue against it and he knows that. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
In addition, did you never suspect v7 after he claimed jack? I know I'd be at least skeptical of town having two such powerful roles. By the way, you have been pretty sure I'm mafia since day 1, why haven't you just shot me? I call bullshit. You are not a jack of all trades. Explain all your powers and tell us which one you used tonight. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 10:08 kingjames01 wrote: Consider what I have to say first. Actually, I'll just post this tidbit. WAIT A MINUTE! DIDN'T YOU SAY THAT YOU'VE NEVER PLAYED BEFORE? How do you know what a "Mafia doublestack" is? Did you discuss doublestacking with your teammates overnight??? MAFIA Oh hi there mr. irrelevant. Get out, we're discussing other shit. Maybe he read a guide, your point is completely invalid and useless. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 10:11 annul wrote: i am not explaining anything to you beyond what i explained to the entire game just now. day vig or mason are my two powers i can use right now, and whichever toad pics i will use on whoever he wants. What is the benefit of holding information back? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
No matter what happens, lynch annul. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
annul should be lynched tonight, if I wake up to him non-dead there's gonna be rage. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 10:28 Toadesstern wrote: are you kidding me? look up a couple of filters. I thought he's scummy, rad thought so. Fair enough I thought I repeatedly fucking told people he was town, I even said it was one of his best town performance. god fucking damn it. Your vote better stay on annul's ass, because him being able to shoot says nothing about his alignment. He's still scum. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 10:28 Mattchew wrote: should still lynch annul? Of course, he just picked a random townie with bad reads, and thus shed the responsibility of his own shot. If he was town he'd have attempted to prove himself through trying to shoot mafia. But since he IS mafia, he never had a realistic chance of shooting one, so he did the next best thing, have someone else "shoot" a townie for him. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 10:30 annul wrote: this is why i give the shot to the most town sensed person in the game. if i picked and missed i instadie. at least now you see im not bullshitting. get off of me; i have more useful things to do for future cycles. No, that's retarded. If you were town, you'd have had the balls to call your shot yourself, the best way to prove yourself town is to shoot mafia, they should be glaringly obvious by now. Why didn't you shoot me? I'm your number one scumread am I not? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 10:31 Toadesstern wrote: you're the only guy who defended him palmar... My option was Drazerk, Erandorr, prp, MAYBE kingjames and MAYBE sandro. Other than rad noone ever mentoned kingjames and sandro I think and since drazerk and erandorr are not ok with the majority I went with prp. what about the useless redFF? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 10:34 annul wrote: because if i shoot you that says nothing about me whatsoever? but if i give power to the most town person that has consensus, then theres a chance i kill one of your partners AND i survive the day What the fuck? you're literally stating I'm scum, and you somehow think that shooting scum doesn't help you? Are you 4real? That logic is just completely fucking insane. The only fucking reason you didn't shoot me is you know I'm not scum, and you are scum. You know that I wouldn't have flipped scum, and you'd have been instantly lynched. You basically just confirmed yourself as scum by not even attempting to hit scum with that shot. You just relied on Toad being bad enough, or your scumbuddy, to pick a dumb-as-shit target. If you're not dead tomorrow, this will go down in the history books as the worst town play ever. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 10:39 vaderseven wrote: ##unvote annul ##vote Palmar You are fucking terrible at this game. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 13:26 vaderseven wrote: Good night. Much to talk about tomorrow Im thinking (real life tomorrow). Yeah, we can spend a lot of time talking about how terrible your decisions are. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 10:30 annul wrote: this is why i give the shot to the most town sensed person in the game. if i picked and missed i instadie. at least now you see im not bullshitting. get off of me; i have more useful things to do for future cycles. Annul gave his shot to a townie who had been very, very open about his read on Erandorr as scum. Annul probably counted on Toad being terrible enough to only aim the gun at Errandor, but because prplhz was town too, Annul ran with it. Does anyone with half a brain actually think that town annul would not pick his target himself? Notice he did not even consider prplhz's alignment. Annul hasn't accused prplhz all game, he was completely fine with killing prplhz at random. At this point, I asked annul why he didn't just shoot me? After all, he has been pushing for my death since day 1, if we can call his half-assed attempts pushing. He obviously doesn't give a shit who dies as long as it's not him. On December 09 2011 10:32 Palmar wrote: No, that's retarded. If you were town, you'd have had the balls to call your shot yourself, the best way to prove yourself town is to shoot mafia, they should be glaringly obvious by now. Why didn't you shoot me? I'm your number one scumread am I not? And do you know what Annul replies with? On December 09 2011 10:34 annul wrote: because if i shoot you that says nothing about me whatsoever? but if i give power to the most town person that has consensus, then theres a chance i kill one of your partners AND i survive the day What the fuck????????? The only way this sentence makes sense is if annul already knows I'll flip town. According to him I must be scum. But how does shooting scum not say anything about him? In non-crazy-world shooting scum is one of the best ways of clearing your name. In non-crazy-world you don't randomly shoot townies to save your own hide. Seriously, read annul's explanation of not shooting me over and over again until your useless brains understand what the fuck is going on here. Holy shit, now I don't just have a case he's scum, the guy fucking claimed scum in the thread and didn't get lynched. I can't express how fucking mad I am at this complete and utter incompetence. What the fuck. In other news. Feel free to randomly kill a few people on this list: TruthBringer, Risen, hyshes, redFF, sandroba, Zephirdd. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Your entire approach to the game is completely and utterly wrong Toadesstern. I already explained at length during the day why you were being wrong and silly, and you just keep doing it. annul is just as good as confirmed mafia. Your scenario makes absolutely no sense, just give it a little bit of thought. If annul is mafia now, isn't the situation he's in RIGHT NOW better than what you're proposing? If you had pointed to scum, he'd simply have shot someone else and taken the lynch. He was going to be lynched anyway, now we just delay it until tomorrow. Just now he got away with shooting a townie, escaped the lynch, and somehow some people still think he's town. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Only thing that makes him not be mafia is the fact that he tried to lynch annul last night. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 11:29 vaderseven wrote: Honestly, aanul has 100% verified his claim. What would a jack that can do a traditional cop be useful to as the mafia? THINK PEOPLE THINK. This is the most ironic statement in the entire thread. The dumbest person playing asking people to think. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
I mean, I get it, sometimes people make mistakes. But what's going on now is beyond mistakes. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 22:00 Palmar wrote: It's time. You don't always catch scum in the same way. There is, for example, no traditional way of catching Kenpachi or Coagulation as scum, because they will not, regardless of their alignment, provide us with content that can be broken down and analyzed through post by post analysis. That is not to say you can't catch people who play unconventionally as scum. While annul doesn't write long, well explained posts, no matter his alignment, it's the content and direction, as well as the intention of these posts that give a player away. I think annul is a good player, he doesn't give himself away every single post. But it's rather the overall playstyle that reeks of scum. Let's look at why annul is scum: For convenience, here is his entire filter: Clicky There is not much to be had on annul's alignment from his initial posting. He is mostly correct in his thoughts, simply because arguing such mundane things as "should we use lists or not" is not something that can give away people's alignments. No matter their opinion on such things. The first post that stuck out to me was this: This is regarding prplhz's sentence: "Just want to sit around and wait for power roles to do our job" Here's the deal, this is in no way a blue claim, and as soon as prplhz denies it being one, the issue should be ignored, yet even quite a bit later annul is still wondering about a trivial issue. The sentence can easily be read from the point of view of prplhz being town and "our job" referring to finding mafia, not blues using their abilities. Why does annul want to stick with this? Because it gives him an excuse to contribute nothing, which has been a hallmark of his play this game. What the shit is a blueslip, there is no such thing. He denied it referring to him being blue, and that should be taken at facevalue. It changes exactly nothing, annul is just staying on his road of "If I tunnel this, I don't have to contribute". Just so I point it out, annul's vote on Drazerk, followed by his switch to Soap gives us no indication of his alignment. Let's talk some more about how to avoid contributing and draw bad conclusions: What has Soap's alignment to do with me? I called him my homeboy, so if I'm right I must be scum? Where's the logic here. I did not ask for Soap to be shot, the whole issue has nothing to do with me. I retracted my claim before the shot was fired, and confirmed it. The decision was a rash, bad decision from v7, against a person that I had no intention of getting shot. As syllogism so brilliantly put it: Of course, this doesn't stop annul with following through with his completely illogical train of thought, because that's a favorite thing of mafia, to not use logic and just run with stuff. Now, please recheck annul's filter ( here ) and scroll down to where he votes me. Notice how sharply his contribution rate has fallen. Not only that, but there is also NO effort at scumhunting at all. He literally hasn't accused anyone of anything since he decided I was red. There is no substance. I think the closest thing was calling Jackal a moron. He hasn't even pushed a case against me today. The bottom line, is that in addition to the complete lack of scumhunting, the complete lack of contributions, annul claimed to have been saved by a medic, from a shot I am all but certain was fired by syllogism, makes me have a very strong feeling this guy is scum. Notice, there is not logical reason for not listening to me, it's just the fact that because I'm aggressive and v7 panicked, I must by extension not be trusted. Annul is clinging onto the notion that disregarding me by referring to the misfired shot yesterday, he can discredit me enough so that I won't be listened to. I'm still waiting on anything that can count as contribution from annul today. I think it's also very bad for town to try and push the issue aside. If we allow the mafia do deflect the annul lynch onto a random townie (Radfield, I'm looking at you), we both eliminate the chance that we hit mafia today, and we cause town to be in exactly the same situation tomorrow. It's probably a better idea to lynch me, because at least that will validate everything I'm saying, not like mafia is gonna let me live after the night if annul dies. With 15 townies alive and 6 mafia, we need 11 townies to make the correct decision. The correct decision is to lynch annul today. I was useless on day 1, please accept this scum as a token of my regret. Annul is mafia ##Vote annul And this: On December 09 2011 20:09 Palmar wrote: Let me point this out very slowly, because seriously, that was the dumbest thing I've ever seen in a mafia game. Annul gave his shot to a townie who had been very, very open about his read on Erandorr as scum. Annul probably counted on Toad being terrible enough to only aim the gun at Errandor, but because prplhz was town too, Annul ran with it. Does anyone with half a brain actually think that town annul would not pick his target himself? Notice he did not even consider prplhz's alignment. Annul hasn't accused prplhz all game, he was completely fine with killing prplhz at random. At this point, I asked annul why he didn't just shoot me? After all, he has been pushing for my death since day 1, if we can call his half-assed attempts pushing. He obviously doesn't give a shit who dies as long as it's not him. And do you know what Annul replies with? What the fuck????????? The only way this sentence makes sense is if annul already knows I'll flip town. According to him I must be scum. But how does shooting scum not say anything about him? In non-crazy-world shooting scum is one of the best ways of clearing your name. In non-crazy-world you don't randomly shoot townies to save your own hide. Seriously, read annul's explanation of not shooting me over and over again until your useless brains understand what the fuck is going on here. Holy shit, now I don't just have a case he's scum, the guy fucking claimed scum in the thread and didn't get lynched. I can't express how fucking mad I am at this complete and utter incompetence. What the fuck. In other news. Feel free to randomly kill a few people on this list: TruthBringer, Risen, hyshes, redFF, sandroba, Zephirdd. I don't know what else I can do. I'm completely drained of ideas. I don't think you ever get more confirmed scum in a game than annul this game. Do you guys mind if I just stop playing and vote only? I feel like that'll do as much good anyway, and I have a really hard time dealing with all the ignorance in the thread. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 09 2011 23:50 vaderseven wrote: Don't be like that. Either quit or calm down. I've proved he's scum. How do I argue with people who just go "No I don't like logic, I'm just gonna do something else". I have no idea. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 10 2011 00:14 Mattchew wrote: Palmar your arrogance is making the rest of us seem "ignorant"... How about for 24 hours you assume annul is town. Go after someone, anyone, else please, even if its me. Are you seriously asking me to ignore the guy who basically claimed scum in the thread, and go do something else? It's not arrogance anymore, sure, I am an arrogant asshole, but now we're beyond any reasonable doubt. Why the hell would I assume he is town? That possibility doesn't even fucking exist anymore. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
I took a hit last night. ##Vote annul | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 10 2011 16:50 annul wrote: and the OMGUS tunneling continues. who expected anything else? Now that I'm confirmed town, link me all your contributions this game, your scumhunting efforts, your reads, your attempts at directing town well. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 10 2011 18:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Cool, and this means that I really AM bad after all! XD Who would've thought? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Logic is forbidden in my thread. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 11 2011 03:26 redFF wrote: my play is so different from my scum play it's unreal. I'm gonna pull a palmar and say the good players know im town. also if nobody claims a second roleblock then either eran was lying or rad was rb'd or we have a town rb. So, explain to me why you have been on my ass and disagreeing with me? Are you really that bad? | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
I couldn't have put it better myself: On December 10 2011 19:07 xsksc wrote: Hi, I've finally caught up with the thread. Why has annul not been lynched yet? If you were so convinced on Palmar being scum, why didn't you just shoot him, or someone else you had a strong scum read on at the time? Shooting scum is the best thing you could have done in this situation. You KNEW that whoever you shot would flip town, so you give the responsibility away to someone who's very likely to pick you a juicy town target. You didn't even hesitate to kill prphlz (who you've barely mentioned in your filter) when you saw the opportunity. It blows my mind that you escaped the lynch yesterday. ##vote: Annul I mean, the could just as well have claimed scum. I'm actually surprised he didn't go all kenpachi on us and kill me yelling "Blow me town". | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
doesn't change much though, you're still dying. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Trust me, I once claimed cop as mafia, but I claimed I had a guilty result on one of the people who we killed during the night, and thus I must be insane. You're not confirmed town because you chose parity cop over a normal one. However, your claim was... weirdly timed, but probably pro-town. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 11 2011 11:35 Drazerk wrote: Look I did damage to town Day 1 Tried to martyr night 1 Continued trying to martyr the rest of the game I've done huge damage trying to kill myself and to be honest the best thing I can do is die If we have a day vig I request being shot it's not wasting a lynch but I don't mind being shot Quit it, you can either be a troll or be emo, you can't choose both. No one is lynching you today. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
It's now 22:00 GMT, that means 23:00 central european and 24:00 eastern european (though I think syllogism was the only player in that timezone). The deadline is at a shitty time for europe. Last time I woke up to a fucking no-lynch. If there were going to be alternative wagons to annul, then they should have taken off by now. I am pretty much confirmed town by Zephirdd. I want you people to take a moment and think about what's happening here. Syllogism tried to shoot annul night 1 (just about confirmed now). Radfield campaigned for annul's death and supported my case last night, despite that, you morons didn't lynch him and chose a no-lynch. I have presented such a ridiculously solid case for this. And now I see some bullshit wagon coming on xsksc or someone else. Seriously, we are like three of the top town players in this game. Bumatlarge agrees with the case, and he's another great player. Give us the fucking benefit of the doubt and listen. Give me my lynch tonight. Don't fucking push it into a no-lynch, because you're never going to be able to push another wagon this late. Tonight annul hangs. If I'm wrong we'll deal with that tomorrow. But I don't think there is any chance I am. Why the fuck didn't you guys listen to radfield last night? Don't fuck this up. Every town player needs to be on annul tonight, we can't no-lynch ourselves into the endgame. I think we may be in lylo tomorrow if we mislynch tonight. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 12 2011 07:07 Zephirdd wrote: *sigh* at this rate we'll end up with a no-lynch. Just freaking kill xsksc already. annul and Drazerk are not the best lynches, they are far from it IMO. Too much uncertainty in it. redFF also feels too weird for me. seriously, xsksc is the only choice here that is safe. Corrupt was scummy, xsksc is scum. Just do it already. Palmar, I really doubt you are lynching annul today unless scum decides to jump into it with full strength; if you are really that mad over him at least wait a day or so; We NEED this red lynch. No, this is not about being safe you moron. Annul has the strongest case for being scum against him. And this late, there's 8 votes on annul and 3 on xsksc. Pushing an alternative lynch to annul is terrible at this point. You're insane. I'm not mad at him, I have a fuckton of respect for him. Squirming his way out of a lynch last night with the bullshit move he made was damning, and somehow people still don't think he's scum. That's some super good scum play. But I don't care, he's the one hanging. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Jackal, we need you on this case too, because once I've gone to sleep, the idiots will have 4-5 hours to unvote him. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 12 2011 07:22 Jackal58 wrote: Answer me this Palmar - If Annul is scum why didn't he just blow your head off with 1 minute left? You're dead, it forces a no-lynch. That's my hang up right now. If Annul was town, why didn't he just shoot me? His entire effort of scumhunting before this day was to call me scum based on me trolling on day one. I expected him to do exactly what you said, however, you're basically saying he's not scum because he hasn't played optimally for scum, but has he played optimally for town? Far away from it. I think he pulled a gambit, thinking that he could trick town into believing his shit, and it paid off. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Kill annul. No other wagon should be going on at the moment, he's two votes away from being killed, don't fucking let him escape again. Goddamnit Zephirdd. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 08 2011 22:00 Palmar wrote: It's time. You don't always catch scum in the same way. There is, for example, no traditional way of catching Kenpachi or Coagulation as scum, because they will not, regardless of their alignment, provide us with content that can be broken down and analyzed through post by post analysis. That is not to say you can't catch people who play unconventionally as scum. While annul doesn't write long, well explained posts, no matter his alignment, it's the content and direction, as well as the intention of these posts that give a player away. I think annul is a good player, he doesn't give himself away every single post. But it's rather the overall playstyle that reeks of scum. Let's look at why annul is scum: For convenience, here is his entire filter: Clicky There is not much to be had on annul's alignment from his initial posting. He is mostly correct in his thoughts, simply because arguing such mundane things as "should we use lists or not" is not something that can give away people's alignments. No matter their opinion on such things. The first post that stuck out to me was this: This is regarding prplhz's sentence: "Just want to sit around and wait for power roles to do our job" Here's the deal, this is in no way a blue claim, and as soon as prplhz denies it being one, the issue should be ignored, yet even quite a bit later annul is still wondering about a trivial issue. The sentence can easily be read from the point of view of prplhz being town and "our job" referring to finding mafia, not blues using their abilities. Why does annul want to stick with this? Because it gives him an excuse to contribute nothing, which has been a hallmark of his play this game. What the shit is a blueslip, there is no such thing. He denied it referring to him being blue, and that should be taken at facevalue. It changes exactly nothing, annul is just staying on his road of "If I tunnel this, I don't have to contribute". Just so I point it out, annul's vote on Drazerk, followed by his switch to Soap gives us no indication of his alignment. Let's talk some more about how to avoid contributing and draw bad conclusions: What has Soap's alignment to do with me? I called him my homeboy, so if I'm right I must be scum? Where's the logic here. I did not ask for Soap to be shot, the whole issue has nothing to do with me. I retracted my claim before the shot was fired, and confirmed it. The decision was a rash, bad decision from v7, against a person that I had no intention of getting shot. As syllogism so brilliantly put it: Of course, this doesn't stop annul with following through with his completely illogical train of thought, because that's a favorite thing of mafia, to not use logic and just run with stuff. Now, please recheck annul's filter ( here ) and scroll down to where he votes me. Notice how sharply his contribution rate has fallen. Not only that, but there is also NO effort at scumhunting at all. He literally hasn't accused anyone of anything since he decided I was red. There is no substance. I think the closest thing was calling Jackal a moron. He hasn't even pushed a case against me today. The bottom line, is that in addition to the complete lack of scumhunting, the complete lack of contributions, annul claimed to have been saved by a medic, from a shot I am all but certain was fired by syllogism, makes me have a very strong feeling this guy is scum. Notice, there is not logical reason for not listening to me, it's just the fact that because I'm aggressive and v7 panicked, I must by extension not be trusted. Annul is clinging onto the notion that disregarding me by referring to the misfired shot yesterday, he can discredit me enough so that I won't be listened to. I'm still waiting on anything that can count as contribution from annul today. I think it's also very bad for town to try and push the issue aside. If we allow the mafia do deflect the annul lynch onto a random townie (Radfield, I'm looking at you), we both eliminate the chance that we hit mafia today, and we cause town to be in exactly the same situation tomorrow. It's probably a better idea to lynch me, because at least that will validate everything I'm saying, not like mafia is gonna let me live after the night if annul dies. With 15 townies alive and 6 mafia, we need 11 townies to make the correct decision. The correct decision is to lynch annul today. I was useless on day 1, please accept this scum as a token of my regret. Annul is mafia ##Vote annul And this: On December 09 2011 20:09 Palmar wrote: Let me point this out very slowly, because seriously, that was the dumbest thing I've ever seen in a mafia game. Annul gave his shot to a townie who had been very, very open about his read on Erandorr as scum. Annul probably counted on Toad being terrible enough to only aim the gun at Errandor, but because prplhz was town too, Annul ran with it. Does anyone with half a brain actually think that town annul would not pick his target himself? Notice he did not even consider prplhz's alignment. Annul hasn't accused prplhz all game, he was completely fine with killing prplhz at random. At this point, I asked annul why he didn't just shoot me? After all, he has been pushing for my death since day 1, if we can call his half-assed attempts pushing. He obviously doesn't give a shit who dies as long as it's not him. And do you know what Annul replies with? What the fuck????????? The only way this sentence makes sense is if annul already knows I'll flip town. According to him I must be scum. But how does shooting scum not say anything about him? In non-crazy-world shooting scum is one of the best ways of clearing your name. In non-crazy-world you don't randomly shoot townies to save your own hide. Seriously, read annul's explanation of not shooting me over and over again until your useless brains understand what the fuck is going on here. Holy shit, now I don't just have a case he's scum, the guy fucking claimed scum in the thread and didn't get lynched. I can't express how fucking mad I am at this complete and utter incompetence. What the fuck. In other news. Feel free to randomly kill a few people on this list: TruthBringer, Risen, hyshes, redFF, sandroba, Zephirdd. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 12 2011 08:05 annul wrote: maybe because he sees what you are too blind to see? You can thank your sorry ass this is the worst town ever to step foot on TL. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Probably because you didn't have any. Fuck this I'm going to sleep, DON'T FUCKING NO-LYNCH | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 12 2011 08:07 annul wrote: palmar: i already know what your cases are. many people have addressed them PBPA-style better than i did... but where i give an answer to your second "case", you fail to respond. i already know your second "case." where is your response to my response? I don't talk to scum | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
I mean, the guy has only voted townies so far (me, prplhz, hier). But I think redFF could be scum, I know annul is scum. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 13 2011 03:17 Lanaia wrote: Anyhow, a question... Palmar, if someone were to inspect annul and have him show the same alignment as you, would you still tunnel? Yes, tomorrow is lylo barring mad saves. Thus mafia can claim whatever the fuck they want. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 13 2011 06:51 annul wrote: i think the thing of note is that palmar equates himself with hitler we shouldnt trust hitler. hitler killed tons of innocents. palmar wants to kill me, an innocent. ♥ | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 15 2011 14:11 wherebugsgo wrote: annul the mafia Jack has been bukkaked to death! I'm shocked! | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 19 2011 03:09 vaderseven wrote: jackal, reread what i said and tell me what you did wrong mvp | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 19 2011 06:51 prplhz wrote: Well, I was actually referring to syllogism's "You guys will never improve"-thing. It's like when Ace made that post saying "Everybody sucks" and then just left it there, I have played like 50 games and I still suck but I only really started improving after a lot of nice people started me giving some really good advice I think people here need to listen to the people who are considered good players a lot more (one of the advice I myself was given at some point and that drastically improved my play). Learn to get a good read on them and learn how they play and then put them in the spot light, there they will either perform or they will out themselves. Learn to read the special cases that are the experienced players first and then listen to what they have to say 'cause they're often right, or they will sound stupid, then move on to start scum hunting for real yourself. Town hunting is a lot easier I'd say Also, if one good player says something and 10 not-so-good players say something else, it's usually the good player who is right. Dunno, I really shouldn't be giving advice but that's my take on this game. I was actually not entirely convinced about annul either, but I was very sure that Palmar was town and I was very sure that syllogism had shot annul, so that was two good players saying that a guy was definitely scum, and that very often means that he's scum. Also, yea Drazerk you need a break from mafia I think You had a god damn mental break down this game. Totally contrary to how you played in XLVII which I enjoyed a lot This post, both the content, the thought process behind it, is the reason prplhz is quickly becoming one of the best players on this forum. Awesome job in your recent games as town prplhz. Jackal played a very strong scum game, pretty unsurprising I guess, he's awesome as scum. The redFF lynch was well... kinda ok scumplay, remember that I tore apart Zephirdd's case against redFF on day 2. I don't think it was terribly bad town play either, of course it was far from optimal. I think the main problem was redFF himself, he had such a bad game this time around, his reads were all way off. Happens to everyone though, he's a decent player. Refallen, you did sort of well this game. Lanaia, Mattchew, Drazerk, Vaderseven, Kingjames, Truthbringer, you all really, really need to step up your game. I'm sorry for not being clear enough with the case against annul, I really should have gotten him lynched, but having to go to sleep 5 hours before the deadline is kinda hard. I'd rate my play this game okay. Scum played "well" given the situation. Any non-retarded town would've completely smashed you guys, but you correctly read the situation and realized you could get away with this. That's very good call on your behalf, and man, Jackal is such a fucking monster as scum. I hope you all liked my video | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 19 2011 14:44 vaderseven wrote: The sad truh is I made a hidden mistake in how I used my 2nd ability. The night that palmar died I choose to make myself a vet. Ky second choice was to doc Palmar but I didnt factor in his double vote and played with a more selfish choice instrad of the choice that had same random chance to work but gained much more for town. I tried to recover a bit of use out of my role via wifoming a few RBs at myself. That at least worked. I made blunderous errors on day regaurding annul thay I personally believe amount to the single most significant mistake of a town player this game. I wont justify that beyond I accidentally was operating on assumed things that were clearly not reasonable in any way to assume. My bad. I think that raw 6 to 19 numbers of the start played into he mafai being able to risk as many members as it did and still have a viable smart path to victory. In my opinion this didnt come into play due to that they coulda risked one less member and still won but talking balance this high number of riskable players at that point in time offsets the roles given to the game. I am way too lazy to look at it from a math % chance to win given logical ways it can play out but my mind thinks that number of starting players is as big a deal as the number of blues. I will be sitting a game or two out as I am moving soon irl and will activily follow whatevwr games occue durinf that with a full obs mode mindset. gg wp jackal/scum As much as I'd like to rage on you after this game, your sole real mistake this game was simply not attempting to think what things really do mean. You're way too focused on roles etc. Yes, you should have protected me but not because I had the double vote. No mafia would shoot you no matter how strong your role is because you were basically helping them more than anyone from their team, they would always shoot me because I was working to get them killed. It doesn't matter at all what role I have. Please, next time you play mafia, imagine there exist no roles in the game, you completely destroyed your play by thinking so hard about roles. Ignore them. The numbers were fine. Mafia made some mistakes, but thanks to you and some other townies who decided to not actually read the thread and just do whatever they felt safe, mafia didn't actually get punished for it. I would recommend you jump right in and play again. When I started playing mafia, I completely fucked up in my second and third game I ever played, the fourth game I played was the first game I played really, really well in. Play again while you're still angry enough at yourself to actually improve. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Reason you can't lose credibility is because it's irrelevant who writes stuff. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 19 2011 19:21 wherebugsgo wrote: Well, I think it's fairly obvious that people were far less likely to listen to you after you obviously lied (despite being an advocate of LaL) There's oddly a level of trust, I've noticed, that's involved in mafia games. A lot of townies don't tend to listen to people they think they can't trust, and lying destroys that semblance of trust. It's like dating a girl and then cheating on her. She might take you back if you're phenomenal (you know..) but then she'll always look at you weird and she'll never trust you again. Well yeah, your analysis is "Palmar, you forgot to account for stupidity" and yes, that's essentially correct. And while it should be impossible to lose credibility in mafia games because it's simply irrelevant who writes cases etc, because if the case is written against a townie, it must be wrong by definition, so it doesn't actually matter who writes it because if you analyse the content well enough you will necessarily always reach the correct conclusion. However, that doesn't change the fact I DID lose credibility because most people play this game incorrectly in this regard (they actually try to analyse people based on shit other people do), and thus you are very much correct about where I did go wrong. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 19 2011 19:33 vaderseven wrote: I agree that my play was too role focused. It is actually an insightful statement for not because the concept is new but because my play usually lacks as a blue were it is generally good as green or red. I've never understood this, there is exactly no difference in playing as blue or green, it's 100% exactly the same. Anyone who disagrees is dumb. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 19 2011 16:37 redFF wrote: sorry palmar haha don't worry about it man, I shot you in ptp remember. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 19 2011 20:12 vaderseven wrote: I agree. I am sure this has been touched on but can I get a clear bit of insight on the one item that has botherrd me: Annul was called scum by many for his claim of being med protected. To me, there is not really a clear logic connection here as it assumes that there wasnt a simple bad med call protecting him. That alone didn't make him scum. My entire case was why he was scum, I still think it's the most clear case I have ever written in mafia. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
I've found through experience that if I don't assume people are terrible, I end up lynching a fuckton of townies. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
| ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 20 2011 00:20 vaderseven wrote: Also, I think it does bear pointing out that many people in my situation day 1 would have shot you palmar. I think your play was brilliant day 2 on but day 1 I trully think your decision making was not of the best calibur. Especially choosing to focus on a player like myself who has played enough mafai to be agreesive/assertive but uas not played on TL enough to know the meta of the various players. I used my 4k post to give jackal a heart. That's pretty nice of me. I'm not really sure what you mean, my decision making is completely irrelevant. The correct response from you would've been simply not to shoot. You can't allow yourself to be influenced by other players. You should've just said "my notes are at home, I'll post them when I'm off from work" But instead you went "OH NO I HAVE TO ROLECLAIM" and in addition you just shot someone for no reason whatsoever. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
On December 20 2011 00:21 prplhz wrote: Hah well I was actually convinced by Palmar but I thought this post was funnily out of character for sandroba so I quoted that for the lolz It should probably have made me suspicious of sandroba instead. Also, thanks for the amazing analysis wherebugsgo. that's exactly how I took prplhz's post, I assumed he agreed with me, and decided to sarcastically jump on sandroba's wagon. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22590 Posts
Sure, things get heated and a little out of hand that game, but people cool down. It's like in sports or whatever, if you really care about what you're doing, you're going to get angry. The main thing is that people can then let it go and play again, which most of us have no problem with. I dislike people throwing demeaning comments against a community like that. | ||
| ||