EPTTL Mafia XLVIII - Page 63
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Refallen
452 Posts
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TruthBringer
United States578 Posts
Some guardian angels saved him yesterday when he was receiving lots of votes ("let's switch to zero suspicion hier!") Bring it on, try and save him again without giving yourselves away. ##vote Palmar | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:46 Refallen wrote: One more question Palmar, what do you think of Drazerk at the moment? I know you thought he was scum earlier in the middle of day 1 (which you never really elaborated on). With his role claim at night and now that Day 2 has arrived, what do you think about him now? I think he's useless, and given that I think annul should be the guy we're talking about today I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I cannot be certain of his alignment either way at this moment. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:15 TruthBringer wrote: I made a decision at the start of this new day that I would give Palmar a second chance to prove his townliness, but as I suspected he would, he started day 2 off being just as worthless as he was on day 1. Some guardian angels saved him yesterday when he was receiving lots of votes ("let's switch to zero suspicion hier!") Bring it on, try and save him again without giving yourselves away. ##vote Palmar Such a safe vote, I wonder if you're just ignorant, or if you're being maliciously ignorant. You will be called out on this so you better be damn sure you know what you're doing. If you're town, you haven't read the game well enough, and you're actively sabotaging your team. If you're scum I don't really care. I wonder how you were expecting me to play day 2? I think I've brought up very valid points regarding annul's claim and syllo's death. But apparently to you that's being useless. Did you even read what I posted before throwing your vote and opinion out like that? | ||
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Refallen
452 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:15 TruthBringer wrote: I made a decision at the start of this new day that I would give Palmar a second chance to prove his townliness, but as I suspected he would, he started day 2 off being just as worthless as he was on day 1. Some guardian angels saved him yesterday when he was receiving lots of votes ("let's switch to zero suspicion hier!") Bring it on, try and save him again without giving yourselves away. ##vote Palmar I completely disagree actually, I've had my misgivings about Palmar but I believe he's been showing himself to be quite pro-town the more he posts. Why do you say that he started day 2 off being worthless Truth? What are your thoughts on his posts on day 2 so far? Also, I've noticed you've been bandwagoning quite a lot. For example, you bandwagoned with kingjames to vote me on day 1 and now you're doing the same on day 2. You look more the scum than Palmar atm I think he's useless, and given that I think annul should be the guy we're talking about today I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I cannot be certain of his alignment either way at this moment. Yes, right now I believe annul, maybe kingjames should be the guys we're talking about today too. They need to defend themselves in the thread. | ||
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TruthBringer
United States578 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:23 Palmar wrote: Such a safe vote, I wonder if you're just ignorant, or if you're being maliciously ignorant. You will be called out on this so you better be damn sure you know what you're doing. If you're town, you haven't read the game well enough, and you're actively sabotaging your team. If you're scum I don't really care. I wonder how you were expecting me to play day 2? I think I've brought up very valid points regarding annul's claim and syllo's death. But apparently to you that's being useless. Did you even read what I posted before throwing your vote and opinion out like that? That's what the game is all about, being suspicious. Everybody was asking themselves the same things. Did annul really get shot or is he trying to trick people into thinking he is a good guy? Your analysis just sidetracks the issue. We don't know the mafia KP. We don't know if syllogism shot annul. Who cares? Even if syllo shot annul, that doesn't mean annul is good or bad. Syllo was a vigi, he didn't know the role of anybody he shot. Your posts are consistently doing the same thing, exploring irrelevant avenues to deliberately shift the focus from scumhunting. Then there are the frequent, "you suck" style posts. Yes, Palmar, I am the one actively sabotaging the town, not YOU. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On December 07 2011 18:35 VisceraEyes wrote: Explain the bolded. I've been genuinely suspicious of you all game. I'm not trying to hide anything - it's some kind of massive coincidence that you just happen to look town in games I'm not playing and suddenly turn into Trolly McFuckstick every time I'm in a game with you...either that or you do the shit on purpose. But judging from your play this game, if you're town I'll eat my own shit. I'm not sure what I think of Annul's claim. Right now I can't be bothered because YOU are going to hang today. Call it my mission. Syllo was at least mildly suspicious of Annul, and I wouldn't be surprised if syllo shot Annul. But no, I don't think it's "very unlikely" a medic would protect annul...in fact, if I were a medic, annul would be on my tertiary protect list by virtue of being active and scumhunting, yet NOT known for strong results. You see, every experienced player stayed the hell away from my wagon because it's pretty obvious I was goofing around early day one. Yet you tunneled in on me very, very early in the game, never giving it as much as a second thought. I am looking forward to you eating your own shit though, although I think it's quite vulgar, please don't take any pictures. Yes, I troll you. I dislike your style of scumhunting because you always look at what happens, instead of thinking about what it means. For example, syllogism who is arguably the best town player on TL, correctly deduced that while I was being dumb and useless, there was nothing in it that made me mafia. Sure, it made me useless, but useless doesn't mean mafia. You on the other hand automatically assume that since I am unhelpful, I must be mafia, which is faulty logic, and probably the reason you have such a hard time hunting scum. And that's why I troll you, and why I'm sometimes a dick to you. This is written in case you happen to be town, in hopes you actually give your stance a second thought, because you're not helping at the moment. I cannot possibly deduce your alignment, because I think you're smart enough to know that tunneling me basically frees you from further scrutiny if you are scum, because your terrible meta assumes you tunnel me, no matter of my alignment. In addition, re-read the last paragraph in your post. Notice how you're completely disregarding a very important part of the game because you're so tunneled in on me. Of the four big names this game (rad, sand, me, syllo) Syllogism looked by far the most pro-town. I was trolling, sandroba was lurking and radfield was being not so useful. Why on earth would any medic who's not already affiliated with annul, pick annul over syllogism as n1 target? Syllo probably dies more often than Radfield and I on night 1. | ||
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TruthBringer
United States578 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:25 Refallen wrote: I completely disagree actually, I've had my misgivings about Palmar but I believe he's been showing himself to be quite pro-town the more he posts. Why do you say that he started day 2 off being worthless Truth? What are your thoughts on his posts on day 2 so far? Also, I've noticed you've been bandwagoning quite a lot. For example, you bandwagoned with kingjames to vote me on day 1 and now you're doing the same on day 2. You look more the scum than Palmar atm Yes, right now I believe annul, maybe kingjames should be the guys we're talking about today too. They need to defend themselves in the thread. Refallen, calling out the only two people who voted for you yesterday is not subtle. When I voted for you, I expressed that my true vote was for Palmar, but that there was more dirt on you than hier, and that Palmar's guardian angels had already convinced the town not to hang him yesterday. I think his posts today are less trolly than they were yesterday, but just as unhelpful. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:36 TruthBringer wrote: That's what the game is all about, being suspicious. Everybody was asking themselves the same things. Did annul really get shot or is he trying to trick people into thinking he is a good guy? Your analysis just sidetracks the issue. We don't know the mafia KP. We don't know if syllogism shot annul. Who cares? Even if syllo shot annul, that doesn't mean annul is good or bad. Syllo was a vigi, he didn't know the role of anybody he shot. Your posts are consistently doing the same thing, exploring irrelevant avenues to deliberately shift the focus from scumhunting. Then there are the frequent, "you suck" style posts. Yes, Palmar, I am the one actively sabotaging the town, not YOU. The important issue is the fact that it make zero sense to protect annul in this situation. I full well believe annul got shot during the night, there is no reason for him to claim it if he didn't get hit. Looking at how I'd assume this game is balanced, I simply cannot believe mafia has 3kp on top of their already unusually high numbers. | ||
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TruthBringer
United States578 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:39 Palmar wrote: You see, every experienced player stayed the hell away from my wagon because it's pretty obvious I was goofing around early day one. Yet you tunneled in on me very, very early in the game, never giving it as much as a second thought. I am looking forward to you eating your own shit though, although I think it's quite vulgar, please don't take any pictures. Yes, I troll you. I dislike your style of scumhunting because you always look at what happens, instead of thinking about what it means. For example, syllogism who is arguably the best town player on TL, correctly deduced that while I was being dumb and useless, there was nothing in it that made me mafia. Sure, it made me useless, but useless doesn't mean mafia. You on the other hand automatically assume that since I am unhelpful, I must be mafia, which is faulty logic, and probably the reason you have such a hard time hunting scum. And that's why I troll you, and why I'm sometimes a dick to you. This is written in case you happen to be town, in hopes you actually give your stance a second thought, because you're not helping at the moment. I cannot possibly deduce your alignment, because I think you're smart enough to know that tunneling me basically frees you from further scrutiny if you are scum, because your terrible meta assumes you tunnel me, no matter of my alignment. In addition, re-read the last paragraph in your post. Notice how you're completely disregarding a very important part of the game because you're so tunneled in on me. Of the four big names this game (rad, sand, me, syllo) Syllogism looked by far the most pro-town. I was trolling, sandroba was lurking and radfield was being not so useful. Why on earth would any medic who's not already affiliated with annul, pick annul over syllogism as n1 target? Syllo probably dies more often than Radfield and I on night 1. All that useless posts do is help the mafia. They make the thread longer/more of a pain to read and allow significant posts to go unnoticed. I definitely would estimate you as being the leader in useless posts. I really doubt that me "tunneling" you is going to free me from scrutiny, especially as I voted for you so quickly after VE did. People will call it bandwagoning. Nonetheless, I am playing the way I should and calling out the person I have the highest scum-read on. Regarding the death of syllo . . . I haven't played with syllo before ever. The death of syllo is meaningless to me. Similarly, whereas quite a few people think that in some twisted way, you might still be a good guy based on past games with you, all I have to judge you on is this game and in it you seem dirty to me. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
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TruthBringer
United States578 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:45 Palmar wrote: The important issue is the fact that it make zero sense to protect annul in this situation. I full well believe annul got shot during the night, there is no reason for him to claim it if he didn't get hit. Looking at how I'd assume this game is balanced, I simply cannot believe mafia has 3kp on top of their already unusually high numbers. Maybe you should state your conclusions in order to be a little bit more helpful rather than sidetracking the issue. So . . . "the important issue is the fact that it make zero sense to protect annul in this situation," therefore . . . redff is mafia (for example). What is the point of going down this path if going down the path does us no good? Is your point that some medic did a bad job? Good point. Everybody let's agree that one of the medics did a bad job last night. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22630 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:59 TruthBringer wrote: Maybe you should state your conclusions in order to be a little bit more helpful rather than sidetracking the issue. So . . . "the important issue is the fact that it make zero sense to protect annul in this situation," therefore . . . redff is mafia (for example). What is the point of going down this path if going down the path does us no good? Is your point that some medic did a bad job? Good point. Everybody let's agree that one of the medics did a bad job last night. No, my point is that barring further evidence, I have a reason to believe annul was protected by a scumdoc. The reason I'm being ambiguous is that apparently when I'm straight to the point people panic and shoot townies. I don't think a medic did a bad job. I don't think any town medic who actually read the interchange between syllogism and annul during the night would even consider protecting annul. My point is that I think annul is mafia. | ||
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TruthBringer
United States578 Posts
On December 07 2011 20:02 Palmar wrote: No, my point is that barring further evidence, I have a reason to believe annul was protected by a scumdoc. The reason I'm being ambiguous is that apparently when I'm straight to the point people panic and shoot townies. I don't think a medic did a bad job. I don't think any town medic who actually read the interchange between syllogism and annul during the night would even consider protecting annul. My point is that I think annul is mafia. This is by far my favorite post of yours. I actually found it helpful, in all sincerity. I forgot that there could be such a thing as a scumdoc. My preliminary read on annul wasn't very scummy though, however you have definitely given me something to look into. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
##Vote Annul | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On December 07 2011 19:39 Palmar wrote: You see, every experienced player stayed the hell away from my wagon because it's pretty obvious I was goofing around early day one. Yet you tunneled in on me very, very early in the game, never giving it as much as a second thought. I am looking forward to you eating your own shit though, although I think it's quite vulgar, please don't take any pictures. Yes, I troll you. I dislike your style of scumhunting because you always look at what happens, instead of thinking about what it means. For example, syllogism who is arguably the best town player on TL, correctly deduced that while I was being dumb and useless, there was nothing in it that made me mafia. Sure, it made me useless, but useless doesn't mean mafia. You on the other hand automatically assume that since I am unhelpful, I must be mafia, which is faulty logic, and probably the reason you have such a hard time hunting scum. And that's why I troll you, and why I'm sometimes a dick to you. This is written in case you happen to be town, in hopes you actually give your stance a second thought, because you're not helping at the moment. I cannot possibly deduce your alignment, because I think you're smart enough to know that tunneling me basically frees you from further scrutiny if you are scum, because your terrible meta assumes you tunnel me, no matter of my alignment. In addition, re-read the last paragraph in your post. Notice how you're completely disregarding a very important part of the game because you're so tunneled in on me. Of the four big names this game (rad, sand, me, syllo) Syllogism looked by far the most pro-town. I was trolling, sandroba was lurking and radfield was being not so useful. Why on earth would any medic who's not already affiliated with annul, pick annul over syllogism as n1 target? Syllo probably dies more often than Radfield and I on night 1. Goofing around you say? I call it being an arrogant prick and destroying the atmosphere of town. Potayto Potahto. The vets stayed away, not because they thought you were goofing-off, but because they've seen strong play from you and wanted to give you a chance. I am unwilling to let you go that long because I have first-hand knowledge of how experienced you are at getting people to do what you want...and I saw scum in you from the very beginning. Useless does mean mafia, what the fuck are you smoking? What kind of scum-team goes around being useful to town? A pretty fucking pointless scum-team, that's what kind. Scum try and blend in. Scum give the appearance of being useful (pointless setup speculation) while simultaneously sabotaging town's scumhunting efforts (suggesting no-lynch right out of the gates). Oh is that why? And here I thought it was just to discredit my points against you so you don't have to actually respond to any of them. Silly me. But I have to disagree with you here - I think I'm being very helpful. I think you wriggled away yesterday by the graces of the vets protecting you. And I think today they're going to see you for what you are. I'm not concerned about 'scrutiny' because I have nothing to hide. I freely admit that I'm tunneling you, but based on the points I've raised, I feel I'm absolutely justified. Obviously you disagree, either because you're town and I'm wrong or because your scum and you want to win. My money is on the latter. I'm probably not alone at this point. First of all, I hardly call you a "big name" in this game. I recognize you, sure, and you're active enough that most everyone probably does. But let's be realistic here: your play has been very very bad this game. Bad on a level the likes of me can only imagine to dream of. Why would a medic pick annul over syllo? Hmmm...because annul's name starts with 'a'? Because they RNG'd between a list they've made and annul's number came up? Not everyone plays like you Palmar, I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but it's true. People play this game differently than you do. There's not always ONE RIGHT CHOICE for their action, and you're assuming that there is. Well, get over yourself. You perceive yourself as some kind of paragon of logic, but you're not bro. Maybe once you realize that, you'll stop being such an unholy bastard to me in EVERY game we're in together. Or maybe I'll just keep tunneling you when I suspect you're not on my team. *shrug* Time will tell. In conclusion, I really would rather you address the points I've made against you instead of explain why you feel compelled to be a fucking asshole to me every game. I get it. You don't like the way I play. Fucking deal with it. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Holy Scum-Claim Batman! Not really, but really, let's think a minute. Clearly Palmar's role is legit. He claimed Floridian, an extra vote appeared on Hier just as he said it would. Here's what gets me though. If it were a town-aligned role, why would the vote show up as "Anonymous" rather than have his name on it? "HERP VE so he can use it without claiming! DERP" Riiiight...except, why would a town-aligned player need to do that? Why would a town-aligned player even use that role? It's been said already, but I'd like to reitterate that normally vote-rigging roles are scum roles. They just make more sense as scum roles. Therefor, I believe Palmar's role-claim. I think he's a scum Floridian. Do you really think that it's likely mafia have an extra hidden vote, in a game where their numbers are ALREADY stacked in the wrond direction? 6 vs 19 already starts them on the high side of voting power, 7 vs 19 is simply excessive. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense for town to have a floridian role to balance out the voting power. Also, stop calling it a vote-rigging role. Yes, vote rigging roles are typically mafia, but floridian is NOT a vote rigging role, it is simply an extra vote. The fact that Palmar told us about the vote speaks volumes about his alignment as well. Having an 'anonymous' vote come up on the list has the potential to throw town into more chaos. Telling us about it removes any kind of danger with it, as Palmar is now forced to be accountable. Palmar, I don't think it all that heinously unlikely a town medic would target annul. However, 2 people claiming roleblock seems too high, which makes me think we might have a jailkeeper. But of course if we have a jailkeeper we don't have 2 medics. More importantly, does Annul look like scum? I honestly can't tell. I can certainly see a lot of mafia motivation in his posts and actions(jumping on Palmar, casting suspicion on me multiple times, thinking Soap was red and then getting super upset when he died), but his tone looks genuine. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 07 2011 20:02 Palmar wrote: No, my point is that barring further evidence, I have a reason to believe annul was protected by a scumdoc. The reason I'm being ambiguous is that apparently when I'm straight to the point people panic and shoot townies. I don't think a medic did a bad job. I don't think any town medic who actually read the interchange between syllogism and annul during the night would even consider protecting annul. My point is that I think annul is mafia. I feel like going down this route is going force a second medic into the open. Do you think annul would claim medic save if he took a hit as scum? I'm not 100% his claim is legit, but I certainly don't feel there is enough against him to assume it is definitely bullshit. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On Mattchew The guy starts this game by joking around for three posts, to look active rather than to help. He is then called out for it by Radfield and I, after which he doesn't joke around anymore at all. I think this looks like mafia who got attention he didn't like and then he changes his behavior abruptly. In his next post he comments on current event in thread, but what strikes me is that he calls Palmar "suspicious" and also attempts to discredit syllogism for what he believes is a logical inconsistency (but it isn't). This will be a trademark of Mattchew's posts. He does the same thing to Palmar here when he quotes how Palmar support LALiars in last game but lies here, indirectly saying that Palmar should be lynched but without saying it himself. Next thing he does is argue a bit with Zephirdd when Zephirdd calls him out on his relative uselessness. His defense is not trying to be townie, it is not trying to prove that Zephirdd is wrong in any way, his defense is actually an attack on Zephirdd. I think mafia mostly feel guilty in the charges against them, but they still have to do something about it, so pointing out the flaws of others hoping that attention will be directed at them instead is something a lot of mafia do. He is not saying that Zephirdd is wrong, he is saying that Zephirdd is being a hypocrite, but this does not make his attack less valid. Next thing he does is go for redFF in this post. I find this weird because his reasoning is that redFF has gone for Palmar and is now going for Corrupt, but he said that redFF looked townie in this post, and that was after redFF tried to get Palmar lynched in the beginning of the game. Also, Mattchew has a pattern of going after "scum tells", his attack on Zephirdd consisted only of this too. In his next post he refuses to vote for Palmar and vaderseven. but the manner in which this is done is more interested. Like with the "prplhz, Drazerk and redFF look townie", I think scum like to band up names and then comment on them collectively instead of forming an opinion on each one of them. This way they don't have to argue for their opinion and they will hopefully get the support of the townies who are on that list because he is actually called them scum. I believe that there is a scum on both of those lists of names, but Mattchew thinks he will get away with calling them townie without actually having to argue for it because he grouped them with other townies. In this post he actually says no-lynch > lyching Palmar at a very critical point in the game, Palmar was getting pushed very hard and was looking to be lynched if it wasn't the the collective intervention of just about every veteran in this game except Drazerk. The thing I think is weird about this is how hard he's apparently changed his stance on Palmar, from trolling lying RNGing to "townie". The post is also very egocentric, what he does here is say "Palmar is town, I'm not voting for him." but he doesn't care what everybody else does. Why isn't he trying to get people off Palmar and onto something else instead of just washing his hands and then watching the blood bath that seemed almost inevitable at the point? Overall his style is being aggressive on other people's integrity while very defensive on his own. All his aggression seems to be to discredit other people instead of actually finding scum and he seems more concerned with his own innocence than with other's guilt. ##Vote Mattchew @Radfield You need to do something today, that night2-deal you made yesterday wasn't accepted by anybody with a brain. Palmar has started contributing and so will you have to. @VisceraEyes I appreciate the effort but Palmar isn't getting lynched today and there are 5 other scum out there for you to catch right? Focus on somebody else. | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On December 07 2011 12:14 Radfield wrote: prp, I missed this earlier on, but what makes(or made) Sandroba seem 'basically confirmed' to you? Do you still think Lanaia is scum? This quote seems to indicate that you think she is just an unhelpful townie: Do you still think vaderseven is scum? | ||
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