EPTDraz, I think you should be protecting v7 tonight. If he dies, it's on you.
TL Mafia XLVIII - Page 5
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Draz, I think you should be protecting v7 tonight. If he dies, it's on you. | ||
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Radfield
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I think this is Incogs version of a JOAT that we are looking at, and I bet it is extremely similar to the role description I posted. As an aside Red, your previous filter page has 17 1-liner posts, and three 2 or 3 line posts. I think you are in danger of getting modkilled by Incog if you keep spamming. | ||
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Radfield
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On December 07 2011 11:46 Toadesstern wrote: If what you quoted is right I want a medic on V7 ASAP instead of the watcher. I'm going to highlight the important part right now If what I highlighted is true there is NO WAY mafia will roleblock him. V7 already shot so according to your link he can't do a thing this night which makes a RB useless. So imo he's going to die withouta medic protection. I fully agree. I only noticed it after I posted that description from PYPI: On December 07 2011 11:42 Radfield wrote: Actually, reading over that description I just realized you cannot self protect tonight, because you used your dayvig today. Draz, I think you should be protecting v7 tonight. If he dies, it's on you. | ||
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Radfield
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On December 07 2011 12:03 VisceraEyes wrote: THANK you! A little WIFOM goes a long way, but literally demanding protection for someone? This goes for you too Rad. If Draz' claim can be believed, I agree that v7 is a good target, but I think any of the others you named would be good targets too. Just sayin. A stopped kill is a stopped kill. PRs are helpful, but warm bodies will help us win the game in the end FAR more than 1 PR ever could. My two cents. I know what you mean, and if you look at my original post it was telling draz that he should think about protecting v7. My thinking is that if Draz IS scum, then that gives him a free pass. In fact, the desire to have draz definitely protect v7 comes from a place of thinking Draz may be scum. But his claim makes zero sense from a scum perspective. I'm of the opinion that scum act in their own best interests 9 times out of 10, and that claim is a terrible move for a scum to make for a number of different reasons. Hence, I doubt Draz is scum, so yeah, he can WIFOM it around a bit. I just hate to see our JOAT die without a fight. | ||
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Radfield
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On December 06 2011 00:17 prplhz wrote: I think TruthBringer and vaderseven are best lynch candidates for today. I will vote TruthBringer over vaderseven because I think he's more likely to flip scum. I don't like lynching Zephirdd or Corrupt. I think Palmar has been uncharacteristically useless so far but I wouldn't consider him for day1 lynch. sandroba and syllogism are basically confirmed to me and I think that Radfield is looking good too. @supersoft What do you think about my case on TruthBringer? You commented on one case on TruthBringer but not the other. prp, I missed this earlier on, but what makes(or made) Sandroba seem 'basically confirmed' to you? Do you still think Lanaia is scum? This quote seems to indicate that you think she is just an unhelpful townie: @Lanaia You too are not really being very helpful. You haven't done anything that resembles scum hunting this game, when can we expect something from you? What do you mean that talking during night just kind of paints targets (or anti-targets) everywhere? Do you think town should just be quiet during the night? Do you still think vaderseven is scum? | ||
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Radfield
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Holy Scum-Claim Batman! Not really, but really, let's think a minute. Clearly Palmar's role is legit. He claimed Floridian, an extra vote appeared on Hier just as he said it would. Here's what gets me though. If it were a town-aligned role, why would the vote show up as "Anonymous" rather than have his name on it? "HERP VE so he can use it without claiming! DERP" Riiiight...except, why would a town-aligned player need to do that? Why would a town-aligned player even use that role? It's been said already, but I'd like to reitterate that normally vote-rigging roles are scum roles. They just make more sense as scum roles. Therefor, I believe Palmar's role-claim. I think he's a scum Floridian. Do you really think that it's likely mafia have an extra hidden vote, in a game where their numbers are ALREADY stacked in the wrond direction? 6 vs 19 already starts them on the high side of voting power, 7 vs 19 is simply excessive. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense for town to have a floridian role to balance out the voting power. Also, stop calling it a vote-rigging role. Yes, vote rigging roles are typically mafia, but floridian is NOT a vote rigging role, it is simply an extra vote. The fact that Palmar told us about the vote speaks volumes about his alignment as well. Having an 'anonymous' vote come up on the list has the potential to throw town into more chaos. Telling us about it removes any kind of danger with it, as Palmar is now forced to be accountable. Palmar, I don't think it all that heinously unlikely a town medic would target annul. However, 2 people claiming roleblock seems too high, which makes me think we might have a jailkeeper. But of course if we have a jailkeeper we don't have 2 medics. More importantly, does Annul look like scum? I honestly can't tell. I can certainly see a lot of mafia motivation in his posts and actions(jumping on Palmar, casting suspicion on me multiple times, thinking Soap was red and then getting super upset when he died), but his tone looks genuine. | ||
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Radfield
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On December 07 2011 20:02 Palmar wrote: No, my point is that barring further evidence, I have a reason to believe annul was protected by a scumdoc. The reason I'm being ambiguous is that apparently when I'm straight to the point people panic and shoot townies. I don't think a medic did a bad job. I don't think any town medic who actually read the interchange between syllogism and annul during the night would even consider protecting annul. My point is that I think annul is mafia. I feel like going down this route is going force a second medic into the open. Do you think annul would claim medic save if he took a hit as scum? I'm not 100% his claim is legit, but I certainly don't feel there is enough against him to assume it is definitely bullshit. | ||
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Radfield
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On December 07 2011 12:14 Radfield wrote: prp, I missed this earlier on, but what makes(or made) Sandroba seem 'basically confirmed' to you? Do you still think Lanaia is scum? This quote seems to indicate that you think she is just an unhelpful townie: Do you still think vaderseven is scum? | ||
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My initial thought was either a town roleblocker or jailer, because it seems very strange for mafia to perform a roleblock and counterclaim it. Which in turns probably means that both claims are genuine, but it says very little about their alignment. Agreed, though claiming a roleblock is certainly not outside the realm of possibility for scum, especially if they used a rb on super or syllo. That is pretty much the only scenario I see scum claiming a roleblock. Assuming everyone is telling the truth today, it means we have a likely 2nd medic, jailkeeper and mafia roleblocker. I'm not really sure why a jailkeeper would target red or erandorr though. On December 07 2011 14:44 Erandorr wrote: I was roleblocked, too. Can anyone explain how that fits with the block Red claimed? Is this the sum total of your thoughts right now? How do YOU think it fits with the block red claimed? | ||
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Radfield
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On December 07 2011 21:26 redFF wrote: Palmar's defense of himself doesn't even address the points made against him. His defense basically consists of calling everyone who votes him bad while falling back on a dead confirmed town not thinking he was mafia. Except syllo never said palmar wasn't scum, the closest he came to talking about palmar's alignment was "i hope you're not mafia" or something like that. Palmar's mentioning of how all the good players stayed away from his wagon day 1 serves to make any of the newer players stay away from voting him because it would make them "bad". dude has done no scumhunting and has been attempting to fuck up any pro-town atmosphere we try to create. ##Vote Palmar sorry if I'm terrible. How does the floridian role fit into your assessment red? Do you really think that in a game where mafia numbers are already inflated, mafia would also have an extra hidden vote? | ||
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That does NOT make Annul scum.... I have my own problems with annul so far, but none of them make me think he is the best lynch today. I would much rather lynch someone like prp, sandro or kingjames. What makes you so sure Annul is scum Palmar? What do you think of prp right now? | ||
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Radfield
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On December 08 2011 01:25 Mattchew wrote: I post a whole list of scum reads and noone comments.. idk why I bother only to be called out for not contributing later... and then having stretched cases made against me by anyone that I disagree with That's because there is already a ongoing discussion topic which you only touched on a little bit. I agree that Erandorr looks like scum right now. I disagree with redff, he spams and posts 1 liners every game regardless of alignment. In his case, it is not a scum tell. Both Erandorr and RedFF claimed roleblocked, but that does not mean they necessarily have a role. Oftentimes in games you are informed you were roleblocked even if you are vanilla town. The chances of v7 and Palmar being both scum is astronomically low in my eyes. Not only do BOTH of them seem like townies, and BOTH have claimed likely town roles, but there is very little chance that the conversation between them was manufactured. | ||
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Radfield
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On December 07 2011 23:15 Toadesstern wrote: Radfield already mentioned the Chances of a Mafia visit on V7 are like 99%. Do you really think mafia let's a claimed blue role that has already proven that he's not bullshitting alive? Once it became apparent that v7 could NOT use night powers last night, that chance of a visit went down by a ton. No point in them roleblocking someone who cannot use their powers. That only leaves them WIFOMing on hitting him or not and whether or not they think Draz would protect him. | ||
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On December 08 2011 02:01 Mattchew wrote: I think that it would have been more productive to let them answer the question of what role they are. You have now given both of them an easy out and although it was probably going to be their answers, you have now essentially limited information we could be recieving. Also, Palmar and V7 were both in the last game and Palmar was involved firsthand in the Palmar vs. Ace vs. BC in which they were all town. It would be ingenius but not out of the question for them to stage a similar occurence this game. We do not need to know their roles. Town roles are best hidden, but it is entirely appropriate for them to claim the were roleblocked. On December 08 2011 02:09 Erandorr wrote: Interesting. Would you mind explaining why us telling you our roles is pro-town? If you are town erandorr, I urge you to start contributing more content. You are obviously around, yet doing very very little. On December 08 2011 02:06 prplhz wrote: @Radfield I'm not a big fan of you calling me "prp" it kinda reminds me of "perpetrator", can't you call me "prpl" or "prplhz" instead? I call you Radfield all the time. Can you outline for me what is bothering you about me? I can see how you might have a problem with the two other people on that list, though I don't think either of them is a better lynch than annul at all. I'd like to stop you from writing a huge accusation on me because I doubt I'm getting lynched today and I wouldn't want you to waste time on a big post on me. I have never considered that you didn't like prp. Sorry about that, and I'm happy to use your full name  I'll post what I have written on you so far, and quickly finish it off: OK, I think prplhz is scum. Before getting into specifics of this game, I want to talk a bit about prplhz's style and general posting habits. A town aligned prplhz is what I would call a highly aggressive player. He calls people out, calls people names, is not afraid of going after big names, and has a good sense of what tells are null. An example of Mini Mafia X(prplhz is Vanilla townie): Are you fucking kidding me? That's stupid. Then tell me why you think Palmar's plan to lynch wherebugsgo on day1 is good. I am really interested in that. You guys all suck. jaybrundage has a valid excuse but people like Mr. Wiggles and Palmar don't. Stop being derps. Yea hiro protagonist is scum He then proceeds to push hiro protagonist strongly, while at the same time pressuring several other players. He is confident, assertive and unafraid to get on someones bad side. He is also not afraid to call vets scum if he sees it. In LOTR you went after DocHelvetica on day 1, in MMX he pushed WBG without support for 3 solid days. He did not build a proper case in either instance, but simply pushed them as scum. Now lets talk about prplhz's scum play, because I think it's actually pretty decent. However, I would characterize it as being safe, helpful, generally 1 big case, and a very different tone. I would grab some game quotes here, but I'm just not going to have the time today. You'll have to take my word for it. Check out PYPInteresting specifically though What makes prplhz scum this game: He is consistently jumping on people for small things and small tells, and NOT pressuring in the way I would expect. First his vote on Truthbringer. Now, truthbringer said some outrageously anti-town things, and really 'new player' things as well. However, prplhz's entire argument is weak and he should know it. Saying dumb things does NOT make someone scum, and oftentimes is more of a townie tell. I would typically expect prplhz to call him on it and let it pass. He does no such thing though, and argues several times that Truthbringer is actually scum. Yet, and this is a big yet, there is absolutely no conviction there. Also, you proclaim your worthlessness lowering everybody's expectations of you. You can absolutely catch a scum even if you don't have any extensive meta with him/her (I think I just proved that). At the very least YOU CAN TRY, unless you don't want to but in that case you're scum and you can just die. ^Kinda indicates Truth is scum, but waffles a bit What motivation could there be for a townie to propose a no-lynch this early on day1 in a closed setup? Do you think TruthBringer is bad enough not to be able to figure this out himself? ^Indicates Truth is probably scum, ie "what motivation could there be for a townie...." The scum motivation is to push anti-town agenda. This is obviously not a team effort. What makes me jump on TruthBringer is that he apparently played before so he should be smarter than this. I find it very hard to speculate about closed setups but he does that and he talks about zodiac lists in a very confident manner that makes me think he is good at mafia, and then he proposes a very anti-town plan at a very bad time. ^Seems to indicate Truth is definitely scum Yet after all that he finishes pretty soft(quote below) and his tone indicates(at least to me) that he doesn't actually think Truth is scum. I'm not saying that you can pick out scum just based on what they write in the thread, I'm saying that it is possible and that it is in the best interest of town that everybody gives it a try. I don't have any experience with you, but what you say is still anti-town and that makes me very suspicious of you when I think you should know better. Why are you proposing that we are both good guys? What do you think of me and my alignment? I'm not saying that it's always a good idea to hang people on day1, I'm saying that it's always bad idea to drop the idea of a lynch early on day1. Can I ask, when you played before did towns often rely on power roles instead of analysis? Later on, he posts basically his last comment to truthbringer, and last mention of him at all outside of "I still think truthbringer is scummy" @TruthBringer You said that "Sometimes it's better doing nothing than something." what makes you think that it is better to do nothing than it is to do something in the situation we are in right now? Do you think, right now, that no-lynch is a better option than lynching somebody? If you had to lynch somebody right now who would it be and why? What kind of information do you think we'd have day2 that we wouldn't have day1 if we didn't lynch? Do you think the only thing to gain from a lynch is a flip and a vote list? Why don't you think you can read any of us? Is it because you don't know how we usually play or is it because you haven't played mafia for a while and you don't feel confident about your abilities right now? You also never answered my question; when you played before, did town often rely on power roles instead of analysis? ^Again, this is not the tone that prplhz takes with people he thinks are scum. He pushes them aggressively, not softballing them questions. Questions which Truth never answers and prplhz never follows up on. Since then prplhz has completely let truth off the hook. Next: vaderseven On December 06 2011 02:04 prplhz wrote: This is all stupid, and extraordinarily rash by vaderseven. ##Unvote TruthBringer ##Vote vaderseven Why are you just trolling the thread and then forcing people to do stupid shit like this Palmar? Votes vaderseven for being "stupid and extraordinarily rash". Extraordinarly rash? Really? My thinking is that if you actually thought vaderseven was mafia, you would absolutely NOT characterize his play as extraordinarily rash. You would characterize it as opportunistic or perhaps panicky, but not rash. Rash is very much a townie trait. Notice also that prplhz accuses Palmar of forcing people to do stupid shit. If prplhz ACTUALLY thought vaderseven was scum because of this exchange, then he should be applauding Palmar for outting a scum, NOT chiding him. You absolutely cannot have it both ways. Either vader is scummy and it was a great play by Palmar to out him, or vader is town and is was stupid of Palmar to force the issue. This shows a solidly scum mindset. Accuse vader of being scum for acting stupidly, accuse Palmar of bad play for forcing the issue. prplhz KNOWS that both are town, and lets neither of them off the hook. Prp mentions vader again Here, but I don't have much to say about it. I think he is deliberately refusing to see things from vaders point of view, and nitpicking the way the situation went down, instead of looking at it in whole form. Where would you put Jackal58 and redFF on that medic protect list? Why do you think mafia would block vaderseven, do you think he might have two shots, one for day and one for night? Doesn't that seem a little over powered? ^Doesn't seem to doubt vader's claim here, yet if prplhz really thinks vaderseven is scum, it means he thinks vader is absolutely lying about his Jack claim. Yet prplhz has never even mentioned the possibility. It seems to me that prplhz is sticking with vader for lack of a better target, and refusing to assimilate the additional info that indicates vader is town. Prplhz is simply sticking with the sentiment because it is thread accepted to do so. Next: Hier vote I'm voting Hier if Lanaia isn't getting lynched and Palmar is in danger, but she's a better lynch. I feel the same way about Hier as sandroba does, it's bothersome trying to defend a guy who doesn't give a shit himself. I get a slight townie feel about him even though I agree that his case is terrible and looks a bit forced, but townies who want to contribute but have a hard time will force themselves to do silly analysis too. His analysis in XLVII was also on prominent townies (Palmar/wherebugsgo/BloodyC0bbler) and that fits this pattern. But he is more likely to be scum than Palmar right now, and he is certainly not going to be as useful for town when he doesn't post anything. Not once not twice but three times prplhz indicates that he thinks Hier could be town. However he couches that in three instances of reasons to vote him. Classic scum vote post. Plenty of outs, plenty of ass-covering, no willingness to straight-up accept the mislynch. Next: Mattchew case I find this an exceptionally weak case prplhz builds on Mattchew. It picks up every null tell and newbie town tell that Mattchew has made. Prplhz knows better than this. He even prefaces his entire argument with stating he sucks at making strong arguments: Hey, I've decided to try my hand at some case writing even though I haven't done this successfully for god knows how long. He also makes a very similarly weak case(but long winded) on Foolishness in PYPI(when prplhz is red). I could talk more about this but I'm not going to. Next: Annul vote Gonna cut things short here. Spends two or three posts defending annul and states several times he does not think he is scum. As the bandwagon builds he is suddenly swayed by Sandroba bunk post: I honestly thought he was joking at first, but it appears he was serious. At this point I'm fairly confident prplhz is scum. ##Vote prplhz | ||
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Radfield
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On December 08 2011 03:55 Palmar wrote: Radfield! So it's you! I'm surprised, your day 1 play was actually quite solid. Alas no, I wish I could play that well as scum Day 1 I agree with you that annul was most likely shot by syllo, I don't see how that has much bearing on him being scum. There are other reasons he may be scum, but you're not offering any of them. If annul was NOT shot last night by syllo, would you still be wanting him lynched? Did you actually read the case on prplhz? I feel it's decently strong for an early Day 2 case. Read it again, where am I wrong? How did this game jive with prplhz's standard town play? | ||
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Radfield
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On December 08 2011 04:59 Radfield wrote: If annul was NOT shot last night by syllo, would you still be wanting him lynched? EBWOP: If annul was NOT shot last night(ie, did not claim a hit), would you still be wanting him lynched? | ||
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Radfield
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On December 08 2011 05:41 Erandorr wrote: Give me one good reason why any town Medic would rather protect you than syllo. Anyone not familiar with syllo's prior play would NOT protect him at night. Town medics protect players they shouldn't all the time. Sandro and Palmar, your entire case is based on the fact that you don't think a town medic would protect annul. That's garbage. You both know that townies do dumb things with their power roles, not to mention protecting annul was not even that dumb. As I mentioned before the flip, annul had a decent chance of getting shot last night. Annul was just barely on the town side of null for me at the end of N1, and he is still there now. | ||
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