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On December 14 2011 17:05 annul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 17:03 vaderseven wrote:
I am making a case on Annul after defending him for the entire game. Not the other way around. the fact you saw it cool to type "##vote annul" without any other content before i managed to type a multiple paragraph case does not make you the aggressor. i think itll be pretty clear to those who read this debate who is the one failing at proper defense.
You are a manipulative one about this whole me vs you thing aren't you?
I saw it cool to type that after you stated you used option 1, an unaimable option, on Refallen.
Annul, you are a LIAR.
Option 1 on Refallen?
You choose to be a vet and target someone?
LYNCH.
##vote annul
GOD i hate being played.
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On December 14 2011 17:07 annul wrote:
pinpoint what specifically you want me to comment on
Comment on your choice to shoot and claim jack after what had happened with me on day 1.
Comment on your choice to say option 1 and then call everyone retarded that says 1 does not equal 3. Please take the time to specifically comment on as to why you choose to say this, if it was indeed not a lie, in the most insanely stupid way so that anyone that was checking their role vs your claimed actions would instantly feel as if you had lied.
Comment on to why me saying Vet and then you saying Bulletproof 2 hours and 41 minutes later is not important yet you posting a list that states bulletproof and then me posting a list that says vet 5 hours later is important. Keep in mine that the first of these two events happened first.
Comment on how you are turning this into a lynch Vader not me is in fact not a defensive measure when you are leading the vote count in a huge way.
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I unvoted you because I knew you were going to post a shit storm and I needed to really do some digging and reading on your actions this game.
I also at that time had not noticed that you claimed bp vs vet. I was just solely voting you at that time based on the Option 1 = ability 3 bullshit. When you posted a stupid but understandable (as in, I could follow what you said) explanation I knew that you were going to post garbage like that in reply to every point that would be brought up.
Also, you say
On December 14 2011 17:11 annul wrote:
why not immediately pounce on it, the way i immediately pounced on you when i learned you had vet and not BP?
I did?
On December 14 2011 13:24 vaderseven wrote:
Hum mine is vet for one night.
On December 14 2011 13:45 annul wrote:
hmm.
that is quite interesting.
On December 14 2011 13:46 vaderseven wrote:
yes it is.
On December 14 2011 13:46 vaderseven wrote:
##vote annul
Also what lie?
Thats the abilities I have in the correct order.
I said that on December 14 2011 07:35 and I noticed upon alot of reading your BP over vet thing at December 14 2011 13:24. At that time I realized you had in fact posted a list that did not match my list. This was the nail in the coffin for you in my mind.
If I make a mistake and read your list of abilites that is damn near close to mine and see Bulletproof where I expect to see Vet I am sure you can see why I would ignore that. Especially since the issue I was focus'd on at the time was ability 1 being a non targetable ability.
---
I actually didn't notice the other ordering issues with your claim until you just pointed that out until I wrote this out. lol. Thanks for pointing that out.
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On December 14 2011 17:18 annul wrote:
the case against vader BEGAN as that, but in the last couple hours it has morphed so far beyond that it is absurd.
the style of defense he employs is tragic. full of flaws, fallacies, and diversions. he goes off the deep end when i put any form of pressure on him that theres no way in hell hes not red.
Where did that happen?
I am just here pointing out that you lied and then went nuts and claimed I am scum and then every time I point out the truth and facts of the events you scream louder and louder that I am nuts.
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Ok for real good night, I am up way too late (230am got to work at 8am wtf). I still can't believe I defended you and led the town into not lynching you.
If you post anymore manipulative statements and half truths about your claims tonight I'll address them tomorrow.
gg sir for fooling me this long and gg at this die hard defense.
I am a fan of that but it IS easy to see through.
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On December 14 2011 17:27 annul wrote:
3. you said the WORD vet whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooop dee doo for you sir, you also said "cop" a few times too; were you claiming cop? were you "naming your powers" then too? you didnt actually claim; i did, then you echoed my claim much later. also note that regardless of what you want to straw man with SAYING THE WORD vet earlier... i am still the first one to say medic! and mason! but like "WHO SAID IT FIRST" is not really important other than to disprove YOUR framework of the case where you tried to argue that i was not actually a jack.
*SIGH* quick fact check-
I mentioned cop once as a ability shortly after you claimed. I then asked if you had any issue with things I said and you mentioned that something about our night abilities was wrong. (BTW, why didn't you call me out on that? If you are a town Jack and a claimed Jack claims a power you don't have you just let it slide?)
I did this once as a test. Notice how the post where I did that I wasn't making a case on someone and voting them.
When I mention vet it is specifically because I am calling you out on a lie and naming the lie.
On December 14 2011 17:27 annul wrote:HEY TOWN, READ THIS!
thats where the importance of this entire argument line comes from: v7 legitimately put in his case against me that he HONESTLY THOUGHT i was not a jack.
I know you aren't the role that I am. I am a Town Jack.
the word "anymore" is poorly used here; it implies ive posted any manipulative statements or half truths in the first place, which i havent. but i would love to see you address my important substantive issues, since you havent really done so yet
Ok...
the word "anymore" is poorly used here; it implies ive posted any manipulative statements or half truths in the first place, which i havent. but i would love to see you address my important substantive issues, since you havent really done so yet
Vague statement that has no factual evidence.
what a horrible defense you have put up. all game i stand firm to the pressure and survive two full days of onslaught of people saying there cant be two town jacks. the REAL mafia jack gets a couple of posts of pressure by me and completely disintegrates.
An effort to flip pressure on you onto me that ignores a large amount of the cases that were made on you. Manipulative.
im voting you because your slate of abilities is tailored for mafia whereas mine is tailored for town. that is my rationale
Scummy and manipulative. Scum have to find rationale for voting. It is their entire way of playing. Town finds evidence. The tone of this post is one that states Vader has scum abilites (you are saying VET = SCUM). You discussion of BP vs VET is worthless because of this fact. The evidence is weak or not there. The evidence that you 'have brought up' is that BP is more towny than Vet. This is based on a given that I am either lieing or telling the truth and that you are telling the truth. It fails as a logical fallacy as such. Thats why you say rationale.
you named vet 5 hours AFTER i named bulletproof. not the other way around.
Incorrect and not based on a factual account of things.
holy shit you need to solidify your theory of the case
it looks like your last post is going back to the whole "im not really a jack" theory. LOLOLOL.
You are not the same role as I and I am a town jack.
saying "so you choose to be a vet and target someone" is not claiming vet.
I made it crystal clear that I was saying that my first ability is to become a Vet.
the fact you saw it cool to type "##vote annul" without any other content before i managed to type a multiple paragraph case does not make you the aggressor. i think itll be pretty clear to those who read this debate who is the one failing at proper defense.
Telling others how think and saying that my vote was too look cool. Manipulative.
pinpoint what specifically you want me to comment on; perhaps i have mistakenly missed something. but given how bad your case has been so far, it certainly was not intentional and i will pounce on any chance i get to disprove something of yours
You are the only one to say my case is bad. The other person voting me, VEyes, is voting me for 'squirming and sheeping." My case on you is rock solid and based on facts. This is, again, a manipulative statement designed to influence the reader that reads through this large amount of posts tomorrow.
the style of defense he employs is tragic. full of flaws, fallacies, and diversions. he goes off the deep end when i put any form of pressure on him that theres no way in hell hes not red.
We get it, you think I am 'crazy' and thereful should be ignored. Well, I say that you are trying to jam that opinion into everyone's mind for consideration as a defensive way to make people dismiss the points I have before they even take them in. That is known as manipulating someone.
you said the WORD vet whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooop dee doo for you sir, you also said "cop" a few times too; were you claiming cop? were you "naming your powers" then too?
I made it clear at that time what I was doing. I was testing your claim to see if you would go along with whatever ability I named. This is clearly contrasted by me asking if you used an ability last night, me asking which one, and you say option 1 at Refallen. Manipulation.
this is obviously bullshit. this is the rationale? lololol
Why is that bullshit? You never actually state evidence and just instead tell people how to think about things. Manipulative.
AKA "YOU CAUGHT ME, DAMN IT, I HOPE NO ONE NOTICES THAT ANNUL IS RIGHT HERE IF I AM CORDIAL ABOUT IT"
It is a very valid scum tech to point out the half truths that are missed by town players. The fact that your claim matches up even less to my claim might have escaped me at first because my focus was on just the first ability but the fact that your claim matches up even less changes absolutely nothing. It just means the reasons for me voting you were actually stronger than I originally realized.
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On December 14 2011 17:39 annul wrote:
also, something to note here: v7 keeps harping on the "option 1" thing and tried to characterize my clarifications as "scrambling to save a scumslip" or some such shit. how can i possibly be scumslipping if it is proven -- and v7 even acknowledges -- that i did what i claimed to do? remember: the SUBSTANTIVE claim was that i used medic at refallen. he cannot dispute this. he knows i have medic. he even admits that HIS ordering of abilities is incorrect. there is no issue with me here: it's not like i am not a jack. it's not like i dont have this ability to use. by continuing to harp on it, he is implying something untrue: that i had to lie about what i did. when you are intentionally trying to convey information to one person without it reaching anyone else, sometimes the cryptic texts are misinterpreted.
there is no basis in fact or logic that can explain my gameplay and my divining of the jack powers unless i actually had what i said i had. THEREFORE, since we agree on 3/4 of the powers, the sole difference is the self-defense power. nothing else.
UHHHH. My abilities are listed in the correct order. I just didn't notice the incorrectness of your list.
Substantive claim?
WTF? How is is substantive? I know you said you protected someone that wasn't targeted for a night kill. I aksed for this to be clarified and that was what I was told (that unless the doc'd player is target to be killed he won't know about being protected).
I don't trust your ability list at all! I know you had a day vig power. Beyond that I have no idea. I know you aren't my role yet are claiming to be my role. Thats all I know.
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Either way, your story of option 1 != ability 1 is bullshit.
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You are not a town Jack.
I dont care what scum role you are.
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Sorry VEyes, Hitler and Vader have spoken.
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![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CCkRkNeL4ww/TNsv6AmLIGI/AAAAAAAAADg/q_a8uINT-eA/s1600/Lodin_vader.jpg)
Picture taken shortly before the decision to lynch the scum that is annul was made.
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WTF.
If this guy flips scum they need to start issueing bans for doing that in thread.
I have never seen gloating like that allowed, I read that as him liking my joke about hitler and vader.
Totally though, that looks like a scum claim.
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So we ahve 10 on him and 6 on annul?
There is 6 mafia left right now, assuming a worst case and there is 6 voting for San right now that last minute change AND annul is actually town (which a red flip on San would most certainly support), they could bring that to 6 on San and 12 on annul.
##unvote Annul
##vote sandroba
That brings us to 11 on San and 5 on annul, worst case vote changing can bring that to 7 on San and 11 on Annul.
What is the needed for a lynch?
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On December 15 2011 12:05 bumatlarge wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 11:44 Lanaia wrote:On December 15 2011 11:38 xsksc wrote:
I want to do the logical thing, go with the evidence and lynch annul who I've had a scum read on for days. This is how I feel, completely. Voting someone I'm unsure about is NOT claiming mafia, thank you very much. If you really think that makes me scum, awesome. Leaving now, not changing vote, be back in a couple hours. That's not a completely unrealistic situation. Annul could be on the scum team with sandroba. Sandroba does this stunt, buts annul certain immunity, and almost guarentees an eventual mislynch with vader? Highly unlikely, but don't throw your scum analysis of annul into the trash. (nah hes probably town, im just mad that im wrong) Important thing is taking our lynch when we can.
THe thing that makes this suck and not true is that would be making it possible for scum to lose in order to allow a maybe win OVER just winning.
It makes no logical sense.
If San flips red then annul has confirmed himself as well as he can for the time being.
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My god.
This is scarey.
Its a rock and a hard place now. If we are wrong about annul and he is red then we have to listen to Palmar till the end of times. If we are right then god damn it sorry annul.
Fuck. Nervous.
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On December 15 2011 12:46 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 12:43 vaderseven wrote:
So we ahve 10 on him and 6 on annul?
There is 6 mafia left right now, assuming a worst case and there is 6 voting for San right now that last minute change AND annul is actually town (which a red flip on San would most certainly support), they could bring that to 6 on San and 12 on annul.
##unvote Annul
##vote sandroba
That brings us to 11 on San and 5 on annul, worst case vote changing can bring that to 7 on San and 11 on Annul.
What is the needed for a lynch? We need 9 for a lynch.
This fucking sucks. This game is in the hands of scum. If the scum are co-ordianted and at least one of annul/san is town, the scum win.
Horse shit.
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What I am saying bum is if the mafia has all of its members online and they just wait till t minus 10 seconds ala the last mafia game day 2 with the scum vote switch led (in a dissorganized fashion even) to Palmar being lynched.
If the mafia goes for that this game, they can auto win. There simply is not enough time to react as town because we are dissorganized. I guess its possible, but the real life situation is that the mafia control the lynch as long as 3 town players are still voting for which ever of the two is town. 3+6=9=lynch.
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Basically, if you believe as it STRONGLY seems to be that Sandroba was gloating and scum claiming and there is still 3 non scum votes on annul right before the deadline its gg.
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omg mass unvote into no lynch.
thats even easier.
FUCK YOU GUYS.
/end
gg mafia wp I guess
(i posted that in vote thread by accident, mods, if you want i can edit it out)
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EPT
