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On November 27 2011 09:49 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 09:23 wherebugsgo wrote:also you are a hypocrite, and have contradicted yourself, since you incorrectly say that I call sandro scum only because he called for the lynch of sinani (this is not true) but you call BC scum for this reason: On November 27 2011 08:20 Hier wrote:
BC
-The original creator of the DT plan. It is likely WBG modified it, as opposed to advising BC behind the curtains to fix it, because they wanted to create an extra face to compete in the elections, diluting the suspicions.
. Entirely because he created the DT plan and you think it's bad. So, you accuse me of being scum because I apparently only had one reason for attacking sandro, but then you attack BC for only one reason. Nice logical contradiction. Do you actually know the meaning of the word "hypocrite"? My main point... the one that's several lines long, had to do with your campaign. After that I accused your reason (only reason) for calling Sandro scum of being shallow. I am not the first person to call BC's DT plan prone to manipulation b the mafia. Specifically BC's, not yours.
yes, I do, that's why I'm calling you one.
You list me as mafia and use my attack on sandro for him wanting to lynch sinani as suspicious, yet you do the exact same thing by attacking BC solely for not liking his plan. That's hypocritical! Not being the first to call BC's plan bad does not change anything about whether or not you did something logically contradictory. No one cares if you were the first nor last to call BC's plan bad, you're a hypocrite because you said I'm scummy because my suspicion of sandro (apparently) rests entirely on him wanting to kill sinani. Your suspicion of BC rests entirely on his plan, which, by your logic, makes YOU scummy.
In fact, even your attack on me is pretty much that you don't like the plan. Only your suspicion of Palmar is supported by multiple points (which, by the way, are not very well reasoned)
Anyway, I'm writing up a bigger post right now so I'm probably not going to reply to you for a bit.
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On November 27 2011 08:35 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 08:20 Hier wrote:
Here are some of my thoughts so far.
Mafia
Palmar
-Way too many people announcing their vote for him, with the official vote tag and everything. Claiming they love his plan, even though there REALLY wasn't any plan Palmar offered to begin with. Typical propaganda by the mafia.
-Most of his campaign relies on him proclaiming he is good as town, and bad as mafia.
-Already started working on his "people with ability to veto" list to veto people ending up on the suspect list. That includes himself. lol wut? Note that he wants 3 veto votes to prevent a person to be on the suspect list for DTs. That means there are at least 3 mafia members on that list Palmar proposed.
-Slightly suspicious about his adamant urge to kill YM. YM merely
WBG
-I'm not a fan of his DT plan. Unless prevented by an ability, mafia will get a kill every night. Meanwhile, the town's lynches are semi-blind and can be manipulated by the mafia. We are meant to follow a list, which itself can be manipulated through propaganda, waste our player resources (forced kills), and waste our vigilante shots all to slightly help out our detective(s) to figure out their sanity, the attempts of which can be all for naught by GF, Millers, and framers. If mafia gets a slightly favorable population ratio within the first few days, the game is over. No thanks. I'd rather have our DTs work independently, even if it is a gamble on them being competent.
-His claim that sandroba is mafia hangs entirely on his first lynch target, sinani206. Though I admit questionable, he puts way too much weight on that point alone.
BC
-The original creator of the DT plan. It is likely WBG modified it, as opposed to advising BC behind the curtains to fix it, because they wanted to create an extra face to compete in the elections, diluting the suspicions.
Town
sandroba
-Is against WBG's plan, with which I agree with; it is far too prone to manipulation and errors by DTs.
Can't Quite Tell
syllogism
GreYMisT
prplhz I think this guy is a good bet to be scum. Look at how detailed his cases are on the players he thinks are scum, and then look at his case for sandro being town. There's a huge sense of disconnect here between the amount of effort he put in to calling myself, Palmar, and BC scum and the amount of effort he put into calling sandro town. He also lists 3 null reads at the end for no particular reason. Why those 3, in particular?
I was JUST about to make a very similar post. I agree with this.
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On November 27 2011 09:19 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 09:12 Hier wrote:On November 27 2011 09:09 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 27 2011 09:06 Hier wrote:On November 27 2011 08:54 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 27 2011 08:44 Hier wrote:On November 27 2011 08:35 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 27 2011 08:20 Hier wrote:
Here are some of my thoughts so far.
Mafia
Palmar
-Way too many people announcing their vote for him, with the official vote tag and everything. Claiming they love his plan, even though there REALLY wasn't any plan Palmar offered to begin with. Typical propaganda by the mafia.
-Most of his campaign relies on him proclaiming he is good as town, and bad as mafia.
-Already started working on his "people with ability to veto" list to veto people ending up on the suspect list. That includes himself. lol wut? Note that he wants 3 veto votes to prevent a person to be on the suspect list for DTs. That means there are at least 3 mafia members on that list Palmar proposed.
-Slightly suspicious about his adamant urge to kill YM. YM merely
WBG
-I'm not a fan of his DT plan. Unless prevented by an ability, mafia will get a kill every night. Meanwhile, the town's lynches are semi-blind and can be manipulated by the mafia. We are meant to follow a list, which itself can be manipulated through propaganda, waste our player resources (forced kills), and waste our vigilante shots all to slightly help out our detective(s) to figure out their sanity, the attempts of which can be all for naught by GF, Millers, and framers. If mafia gets a slightly favorable population ratio within the first few days, the game is over. No thanks. I'd rather have our DTs work independently, even if it is a gamble on them being competent.
-His claim that sandroba is mafia hangs entirely on his first lynch target, sinani206. Though I admit questionable, he puts way too much weight on that point alone.
BC
-The original creator of the DT plan. It is likely WBG modified it, as opposed to advising BC behind the curtains to fix it, because they wanted to create an extra face to compete in the elections, diluting the suspicions.
Town
sandroba
-Is against WBG's plan, with which I agree with; it is far too prone to manipulation and errors by DTs.
Can't Quite Tell
syllogism
GreYMisT
prplhz I think this guy is a good bet to be scum. Look at how detailed his cases are on the players he thinks are scum, and then look at his case for sandro being town. There's a huge sense of disconnect here between the amount of effort he put in to calling myself, Palmar, and BC scum and the amount of effort he put into calling sandro town. He also lists 3 null reads at the end for no particular reason. Why those 3, in particular? prpl I thought was scum, syllo I think is also likely to be scum. GreYMisT could be anything at this point. It's perhaps not so strange he picked syllo, since he focused on syllo+sandro and me+Palmar+BC, but it is indeed strange he chose to comment on GreYMisT and prpl. Well GreYMisT and prplz are/were in the election campaign. Duh...... Syllo I found often to be there with Sandro, but did not quite have enough to say at the time. I was busy in the last 24 hours; just finished reading like 35 pages, I'll dump more posts as time moves. Sandro: I happened to agree with his criticisms of your strategy. Not much to say. Would you call me scum right off the bat if I did the opposite; if I had one liners about you and Palmar and an essay about Sandro? This is a legitimate question, answer it. Yes, actually. I generally am critical of players who make contradictions in their play. If a player is hypocritical or makes logical contradictions, then I generally hone in on them and tunnel and pressure them repeatedly. If someone says things that show discrepancies or inordinate bias toward one side of an issue they are not involved in, then I also am suspicious, because I then wonder if they have a non-town agenda. If a player is not directly involved in an issue (such as this DT palmar/BC/me and syllo/sandro business) then I expect the amount of effort put into analyzing both sides to be roughly equal. If it isn't, then there is likely to be something hidden going on. It is advantageous for town to identify mafia as soon as possible and to provide large amounts of argument to accuse a player of being scum. It is advantageous for mafia to falsely accuse a townie of being mafia and to provide large amounts of argument for it to alleviate suspicion off of actual mafia members and to waste lynches. Sandro isn't being lynched after breakfast; I'm not in a particular rush to convince everyone he isn't scum. However, I do not believe he is mafia based on his argument against your DT policy. So it actually turns out that the paragraph under your name has relation to Sandro's case. So you just admitted that what you posted about scum could be taken from both alignment perspectives. Thank you, you pretty much just proved my point for me. What? You agreed that what I said could be interpreted as mafia or town equally. Then you said that just proved I'm scum. Excellent logic. You are rather desperate to have me out of the picture, are you not? Am I a threat to your scum campaign? Let me clarify. My logic has to do with how scum operate. They want to be unreadable. So, the entire focus of your post was on your scumreads, with literally no effort put in to convincing anyone that sandro is town. You also strangely included three other players, two of which you say are included because they are mayoral candidates. Yet, you don't talk about other mayoral candidates, such as sinani, annul, Erandorr, or kitaman. You could've easily said you were null on all of these (each with a campaign about as strong as GreYMisT's or prpl's) and I probably would believe you that you were mentioning those players based on their campaigns. But, you didn't. Now, if you look at only your scumreads, and omit the rest of your post, we see that your post can be made from either alignment. That's point number 1. If you instead eliminate only the first half, and include the town/null, you again can probably make that post from either alignment, but it's more likely to be a scum-aligned post because of the total lack of effort. This is point #2. Put them together, and the disconnect makes sense far more from a scum perspective than a town one. Scum are completely fine with destroying the credibility of town players. Early in the game, when there are so many of them, they are also fine in supporting certain players who are furthering their agenda; either townies they think will help them achieve their wincon, or their scumbuddies.
Wow finally another player that searches for the people that have hidden information. This is how you scum hunt. I, again, agree with your conclusions.
Would like to see this guy flip.
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On November 27 2011 09:56 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 09:49 Hier wrote:On November 27 2011 09:23 wherebugsgo wrote:also you are a hypocrite, and have contradicted yourself, since you incorrectly say that I call sandro scum only because he called for the lynch of sinani (this is not true) but you call BC scum for this reason: On November 27 2011 08:20 Hier wrote:
BC
-The original creator of the DT plan. It is likely WBG modified it, as opposed to advising BC behind the curtains to fix it, because they wanted to create an extra face to compete in the elections, diluting the suspicions.
. Entirely because he created the DT plan and you think it's bad. So, you accuse me of being scum because I apparently only had one reason for attacking sandro, but then you attack BC for only one reason. Nice logical contradiction. Do you actually know the meaning of the word "hypocrite"? My main point... the one that's several lines long, had to do with your campaign. After that I accused your reason (only reason) for calling Sandro scum of being shallow. I am not the first person to call BC's DT plan prone to manipulation b the mafia. Specifically BC's, not yours. yes, I do, that's why I'm calling you one. You list me as mafia and use my attack on sandro for him wanting to lynch sinani as suspicious, yet you do the exact same thing by attacking BC solely for not liking his plan. That's hypocritical! Not being the first to call BC's plan bad does not change anything about whether or not you did something logically contradictory. No one cares if you were the first nor last to call BC's plan bad, you're a hypocrite because you said I'm scummy because my suspicion of sandro (apparently) rests entirely on him wanting to kill sinani. Your suspicion of BC rests entirely on his plan, which, by your logic, makes YOU scummy. In fact, even your attack on me is pretty much that you don't like the plan. Only your suspicion of Palmar is supported by multiple points (which, by the way, are not very well reasoned) Anyway, I'm writing up a bigger post right now so I'm probably not going to reply to you for a bit.
This is why i'm following wbg in this game atm.
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On November 27 2011 08:23 syllogism wrote:
I like how palmar left without actually voting for bc/sandroba, is that how much he cares about who our sheriff is
On November 27 2011 07:37 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 07:34 syllogism wrote:
So that takes us back to your vote. Why are you not voting for sandroba over BC. I know you consider him a better asset for town, correct or not and I don't think BC has done anything that would convince you of his alignment Actually, fuck it. You probably wouldn't do this as scum, and I think if we all happen to be to town, it's very good to have people of different "factions" in office. Despite disagreeing with sandroba on almost everything in this game, I'm gonna suggest we put him in the second spot. Worst case, we have an extra roleblock for scum who is a very, very transparent player. If bodyguards start dying, we lynch sandroba. If he doesn't make good calls, we lynch sandroba. I need to run, will change my vote later.
Why are you trying to make me look bad when there is no reason to do so?
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On November 27 2011 08:20 Hier wrote:
Here are some of my thoughts so far.
Mafia
Palmar
-Way too many people announcing their vote for him, with the official vote tag and everything. Claiming they love his plan, even though there REALLY wasn't any plan Palmar offered to begin with. Typical propaganda by the mafia.
-Most of his campaign relies on him proclaiming he is good as town, and bad as mafia.
-Already started working on his "people with ability to veto" list to veto people ending up on the suspect list. That includes himself. lol wut? Note that he wants 3 veto votes to prevent a person to be on the suspect list for DTs. That means there are at least 3 mafia members on that list Palmar proposed.
-Slightly suspicious about his adamant urge to kill YM. YM merely
This post is, I'm sorry to say, absolutely terrible. I don't even know where to start to break it apart.
-Way too many people announcing their vote for him, with the official vote tag and everything. Claiming they love his plan, even though there REALLY wasn't any plan Palmar offered to begin with. Typical propaganda by the mafia.
The actions of others have nothing to do with my alignment. Don't you think it's a bit naive for mafia to stack up to their candidate? I am perfectly fine with you thinking I'm mafia, that just means you're not reading the thread, which is common for townies. What I'm not okay with is you using bad logic to try to deduce I'm mafia. I have no control over what people do.
-Already started working on his "people with ability to veto" list to veto people ending up on the suspect list. That includes himself. lol wut? Note that he wants 3 veto votes to prevent a person to be on the suspect list for DTs. That means there are at least 3 mafia members on that list Palmar propose
Again, what I say has nothing to do with the people I talk about and their alignment. Nothing I say can make anyone else scum, it's their own words you have to look for. You're first making the incorrect assumption I'm scum, by looking at how other people respond to what I say, and then you're trying to deduce the alignment of 5 more people by analyzing what I say?
The logical leaps you're making are astounding.
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On November 27 2011 09:56 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 09:49 Hier wrote:On November 27 2011 09:23 wherebugsgo wrote:also you are a hypocrite, and have contradicted yourself, since you incorrectly say that I call sandro scum only because he called for the lynch of sinani (this is not true) but you call BC scum for this reason: On November 27 2011 08:20 Hier wrote:
BC
-The original creator of the DT plan. It is likely WBG modified it, as opposed to advising BC behind the curtains to fix it, because they wanted to create an extra face to compete in the elections, diluting the suspicions.
. Entirely because he created the DT plan and you think it's bad. So, you accuse me of being scum because I apparently only had one reason for attacking sandro, but then you attack BC for only one reason. Nice logical contradiction. Do you actually know the meaning of the word "hypocrite"? My main point... the one that's several lines long, had to do with your campaign. After that I accused your reason (only reason) for calling Sandro scum of being shallow. I am not the first person to call BC's DT plan prone to manipulation b the mafia. Specifically BC's, not yours. yes, I do, that's why I'm calling you one. You list me as mafia and use my attack on sandro for him wanting to lynch sinani as suspicious, yet you do the exact same thing by attacking BC solely for not liking his plan. That's hypocritical! Not being the first to call BC's plan bad does not change anything about whether or not you did something logically contradictory. No one cares if you were the first nor last to call BC's plan bad, you're a hypocrite because you said I'm scummy because my suspicion of sandro (apparently) rests entirely on him wanting to kill sinani. Your suspicion of BC rests entirely on his plan, which, by your logic, makes YOU scummy. In fact, even your attack on me is pretty much that you don't like the plan. Only your suspicion of Palmar is supported by multiple points (which, by the way, are not very well reasoned) Anyway, I'm writing up a bigger post right now so I'm probably not going to reply to you for a bit.
I'm positive you see the difference, but the reason you pretend you don't is because you are mafia and it is beneficial to you to ignore the obvious, I can respect the want to win. It is a gamer after all.
My main point against you was that your plan has benefits to mafia. Secondary came you extremely shallow accusation of Sandro, which did not have a direct benefit to the mafia.
My main point against BC was that his plan has benefits to mafia.
This breakdown was mainly for other players. I am sure you understand what my original post meant against the mafia, but you keep skipping my main point and calling me a hypocrite when the analysis, quite clearly, was not hypocritical. That's fine, strong words such as hypocrite appeal to the masses, even if there isn't a concrete base supporting it. And that's how you win, as I understand. I will attempt your tactic on some other player in a few days and see if it works for me as well. Good luck.
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Hier just earned himself a spot on the DT list, I'm seriously considering just killing him over youngminii.
Hier, roleclaim. Now.
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On November 27 2011 10:35 Palmar wrote:
Hier just earned himself a spot on the DT list, I'm seriously considering just killing him over youngminii.
Hier, roleclaim. Now.
I second this. Pretty spotty play in the last two pages -_-
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On November 27 2011 09:50 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 09:43 Kurumi wrote:On November 27 2011 09:35 Serejai wrote:On November 27 2011 09:31 Kurumi wrote:On November 27 2011 09:26 Serejai wrote:On November 27 2011 06:00 Serejai wrote:MY NAME IS SEREJAI AND I AM RUNNING FOR MAYOR You should vote for me because I'm the only candidate that's guaranteed to be town. If I were mafia I would be modkilled/banned from this game by now. This is how you know you can trust me. I'm not a veteran player but I will actively listen to the town and use my lynches accordingly. My election lynch will be used on supersoft for obvious reasons SEREJAI FOR MAYOR ##Unvote sinani206
##Vote SerejaiTo facilitate the switching of your votes to me I have included blow, free of charge, a template that you can use. [b]##Unvote <yourformercandidatehere>
##Vote Serejai[/b] NEW PLAYERS, IT IS NOT TOO LATE TO SAVE THE TOWN!Your other candidates are: Palmar
Sandroba
Greymist
kitamanBloodyc0bblerNeedless to say if you vote for a mafia then you are also a mafia. The only other candidate is BloodyC0bbler and he needs a second town to run with! Don't be taken in by this mafia-ran mayoral campaign. They are preying on the fact that you're new and don't know their playstyles. DO NOT BE FOOLED - THESE PEOPLE ARE ALL MAFIA. Secure your votes in me, the only candidate that is 100% confirmed as town based on the fact I'm still in the game at this point, and help town achieve victory with a day one lynch of supersoft the mafia scum. I will then lynch two mafia a day from then out, starting with the trolls/lurkers like intrigue and kurumi. You're a lunatic. Says the mafia scum trying to derail my campaign so mafia wins mayor+sheriff positions. Typical. You're shitting up the thread with nonsense. Post a case... oh wait, You won't because You're scum, together with annul and sinani. Oh well. I've already posted why the other candidates, and people like you and intrigue, are mafia. Your only response seems to be whining and trolling. It's clear you have no real defense. Kurumi
You see this post isnt ok. I wouldn't have a problem with it if any effort at all were put into it, but i just searched your filter and the only time you mention my name is in the big list of all the canidates in red. and then here you say you have "already posted why the other candidates are mafia."
Try making it a little harder next time please.
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Even a townie can seem scummy at times. Instead of admitting that some of my points are worth considering, while insisting on retaining you town alignment, you simply call them terrible without any explanation.
On November 27 2011 10:34 Palmar wrote:
Again, what I say has nothing to do with the people I talk about and their alignment.
So you say, mafia can surely mention other mafia brethren in their discussion. It alleviates suspicion, even if slightly.
On November 27 2011 10:34 Palmar wrote:
Nothing I say can make anyone else scum, it's their own words you have to look for.
No, of course not. But the player that screams his/her intentional misinterpretation of other players' posts the loudest has a great advantage. That's how the game is played, and you and WBG are playing it correctly, because it seems the people are already starting to rally against me. It seems to be working. Good job.
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On November 27 2011 10:35 Palmar wrote:
Hier just earned himself a spot on the DT list, I'm seriously considering just killing him over youngminii.
Hier, roleclaim. Now.
What do you mean, roleclaim?
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On November 27 2011 10:43 Hier wrote:Even a townie can seem scummy at times. Instead of admitting that some of my points are worth considering, while insisting on retaining you town alignment, you simply call them terrible without any explanation. Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 10:34 Palmar wrote:
Again, what I say has nothing to do with the people I talk about and their alignment. So you say, mafia can surely mention other mafia brethren in their discussion. It alleviates suspicion, even if slightly. Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 10:34 Palmar wrote:
Nothing I say can make anyone else scum, it's their own words you have to look for. No, of course not. But the player that screams his/her intentional misinterpretation of other players' posts the loudest has a great advantage. That's how the game is played, and you and WBG are playing it correctly, because it seems the people are already starting to rally against me. It seems to be working. Good job.
You're ignoring the possibility of people voting for me because they think I make sense, and me being mad at you for using bad logic.
Your point about my campaign resting on me being good previously in mafia is okay. Until you know my alignment, you cannot deduce anything about me based on how other people respond to me. If people allowed those kind of reads, then mafia would just buddy up with town all the time to get them hanged. It's stupid.
If someone votes me with sketchy reasoning, you should go for HIM, not me.
If you're not scum, you have two options. Believe me now when I say you're using incorrect methods to scumhunt, and they will not work. Or you can make a fool of yourself this game, and then learn.
Irrelevant of my alignment, your methods suck at the moment. Try a new approach.
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On November 27 2011 10:44 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 10:35 Palmar wrote:
Hier just earned himself a spot on the DT list, I'm seriously considering just killing him over youngminii.
Hier, roleclaim. Now. What do you mean, roleclaim?
publicly state in the thread what role you have, if any.
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On November 27 2011 10:44 Hier wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2011 10:35 Palmar wrote:
Hier just earned himself a spot on the DT list, I'm seriously considering just killing him over youngminii.
Hier, roleclaim. Now. What do you mean, roleclaim?
The thing in the red in Your PM
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Haha Kurumi you made me laugh :D. Its his first game on TL at least cut him slack.
But to be fair his posts are rather bad especially the one where he tried to scum hunt Palmer ><, because well none of it makes sense =/.
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On November 27 2011 10:57 Benjef wrote:
Haha Kurumi you made me laugh :D. Its his first game on TL at least cut him slack.
But to be fair his posts are rather bad especially the one where he tried to scum hunt Palmer ><, because well none of it makes sense =/.
We are cutting him slack.
If that was a veteran I'd have instantly lynched him for terrible logic, but I'm giving this guy the chance to clean up his act.
Although, he did just earn himself a spot on the DT list thing.
In the last hour of the day, all I want to hear people discuss is whether or not they like the youngminii lynch.
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Uh in what way is this kind of role fishing not a scummy thing to do especially day 1.
Assume for a second he has any of the roles and realize you have 0 ways to know which they are. There is several roles that he might have that are downright awful to claim on day motherfucking 1.
Don't role fish day 1 please unless you can convince me that years of mafia playing logic that I have gained is all completely wrong on the fact that role fishing like that is just plain pro scum anti town.
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Ill quote myself on Youngminii
"He is either bad town or is a semi new scum and Palmer is on his scum team and this is the most epic fail of a bus I have ever seen. I don't have a formed opinion on this guy yet but he is now *'ed in my notes because I need to pay attention to his play to see wtf is going on."
I still feel that way about him.
I don't see him as the best lynch choice but he is FAR from the worst. I would be fine with it overall.
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On November 27 2011 11:03 vaderseven wrote:
Ill quote myself on Youngminii
"He is either bad town or is a semi new scum and Palmer is on his scum team and this is the most epic fail of a bus I have ever seen. I don't have a formed opinion on this guy yet but he is now *'ed in my notes because I need to pay attention to his play to see wtf is going on."
I still feel that way about him.
I don't see him as the best lynch choice but he is FAR from the worst. I would be fine with it overall.
Bad logic btw, I already called you out on it.
You assume that if YM flips scum, I am scum. And if he flips town I'm gonna be under suspicion anyway.
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EPT
