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+ Show Spoiler +On November 25 2011 16:47 redFF wrote:all these people not posting in thread are pissing me off NON-POSTERS VOTE-LIST this is a list of all the people with no/very few posts since game start who have voted, and who they're voting for Palmarrogerx Cwave (he has one post) ohn ( one post) daymore ( one good post)i expect to hear back from you on your review of the thread and which candidates you like/dont like. Sandrobathe1stnewbie ( one post), btw if you dont provide the research you promised, i will call you out. deadlypsycho ( two posts)says nothing about why he voted layabout( posts here) a few posts, but says absolutely nothing about sandroba in them... soap (no posts) blindrawr ( one post) of special interest is this post. he cant wait but now is barely even playing? blind rawr scumread atm. redFFrisen ( one post) jaybrundage(guy isnt even running)hyshes ( one post) wtf?? Greymistspartan n30 - cool name......... mattchew- no posts cosine- no posts BCt3tsubo - no posts all these people need to get in the thread and explain themselves, there are gonna be at least 2/3 newbie scum on the list above, probably more. IF YOU'RE TOWN AND ON THIS LIST, COME AND POST IN THE THREAD AND PLAY THE GAME. the amount of people voting for sandroba/greymist/palmar with no content is worrying.
I never explained my vote for sandroba and i whilst im not alone this isn't justifiable. At the time i was going to vote for palmer, but i read through his filter and saw him advocate a vote for sandroba, i also saw that wherebugsgo had voted for sandroba and i thought "these players have been actively posting and used what seems to be good logic, so if i listen to them and vote sandroba this is probably a good decision, right" upon reflection i think that such reasoning is dangerous! i fully intend to change my vote and allow me to explain why:
in the quoted post redff names around 15-ish players who have voted without posting at all or with little reasoning. It would be very easy as mafia to be part of this list as there are probably a large number of townies on it that they can hide amongst. If you have to provide reasoning for you votes then mafia will at least have to provide town with information to analyse and possibly catch them out.also if you vote for a bad reason but by voting without justification we are making it even easier for
currently palmer and sanroba lead the vote counts with 11 and 13 respectively (although some of the votes weren't bolded). It is a fairly safe assumption to make that the mafia will be supporting 1 or more campaigns, it stands to reason that an election win and power granted by it, is worth drawing attention and scrutiny to one scum. the mafia have 16 votes so it would be well within their capability to convice some townies to support a campaign, supplement it with their own votes (either with reasoning or by hiding amongst non-posters), and have a candidate in the lead towards the start. This situation poses a real threat because; people are more inclined to vote for people they perceive to have a good chance of winning, and conversely they are likely to dismiss a candidate with no support-as to vote for somebody like that is almost equivalent to not voting because it may not have an impact on the result of the vote.
it is very easy to support a cause that has a lot of supporters and i think there is a considerable chance that at least one of the leading campaigns is mafia-led.
IMO we should support a campaign with very few or no votes because i think there is a substantially less chance of it being mafia led.
Now i don't have a huge amount of experience with the candidates but the comments seem to indicate that kitamin27 is a competent/experienced player and his posts seem fairly logical so i think he would make a good mayor.
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Explanations for the noobs
On November 25 2011 22:28 IMABUNNEH wrote:
There are 2 very obvious opposing factions in this mayoral race, and within one of them has to be a minimum of a couple of scum.
Faction 1 is Palmar, WBG, and their supporters.
Faction 2 is Sandro, prplzpzl, and their supporters.
wrong. prplhz doesn't play a role anymore. the fractions are the following:
BC, wbg, Palmar and I support BCs modified by wbgs DT/Vig-plan. + Show Spoiler +On November 25 2011 19:27 wherebugsgo wrote:My Addendum to BC's Plan: Optimally, we get like 4-6 more scumreads so that we can get a good list of around 8-10 people we want dead. Indeed, they don't all have to be checked n1. Some can be checked n1, some can be checked n2. Essentially, the way I imagine it working is like this: Step 1: We assign each player on the list of potential scum a number. Let's imagine that our list is this: 1. youngminii 2. prplhz 3. Erandorr 4. Blind_Rawr So, what we do is this: any DT who accepts the plan who is in the top 1/4 of players will check youngminii. This would be any DT in this list: + Show Spoiler +1.) Erandorr
2.) Tyrran
3.) kitaman27
4.) sandroba
5.) bonifaceviii
6.) Kurumi
7.) BLinD-RawR
8.) tnkted
9.) GreYMisT
10.) Serejai
11.) Toadesstern
12.) tube
13.) redFF
14.) Vain
15.) eezyBash
16.) Mattchew
17.) Jackal58
18.) Belial-
19.) Palmar
20.) MrZentor Step 2: Coordinate the DTs on n1 and n2 Any DT who is in the second quarter will check #2, prplhz. So, that means, any DT in this list: + Show Spoiler +21.) Risen
22.) Nokarot
23,) risk.nuke
24.) minus_human
25.) IMABUNNEH
26.) wherebugsgo
27.) dukethegold
28.) iLoveKT
29.) mcht
30.) ohN
31.) The1stNewbie
32.) t3tsubo
33.) cosine
34.) xtfftc
35.) DeadlyPsycho
36.) hyshes
37.) Chanyman
38.) Drazerk
39.) Penke
40.) ey215 And so on. Statistically it is equally likely for our DTs to be in any one of these lists. Once we split it 8-10 ways with 8-10 different players, we actually have it even better. On n1, have all the DTs in the top quarter/fifth flip a coin and pick either player #1 or player #2. Have all the players in the second quarter/fifth flip a coin and pick either #3 or #4, and so on. On n2, have all the DTs pick the other player. This type of random DT check mechanism makes it incredibly hard for scum to manipulate. All the DTs will be guaranteed two checks, with many of them having both checks flip on day 3. We can even lynch into the list to ensure that at least one player flips by day 3. Step 3: Coordinate the vigilantes on n2. We do the same exact thing with the vigges on n2. The vigilantes can't shoot till n2. That's fine. We have them shoot with the same mechanism, into the list of players. Some DTs will hopefully have two flipped targets. Some will have only one, but that's still good. Millers will flip as miller. Scum will flip scum. Most misleading mechanics will be dealt with. Framing will only work for the targets that live, and with this plan most of them should die. Vigilantes who shoot into the list and their target does not die MUST CLAIM THE SHOT IMMEDIATELY. This means that their target was protected, and in this plan the only people who are protected are scum, since it would be moronic for a town doctor to be protecting into a public list of scumreads.This plan will optimally give a majority of our DTs their sanity checks by day 3, and it will eliminate most of the players we think are scummy based on analysis. That's really good. We can also add lurkers to this list and use the lurker vigges as well. We'd have to intersperse them a little more, but it would work similarly to how the DTs would check. If the list is half lurker scummy and half non lurker scummy then the lurker vigges can shoot the lurkies and the regulars can shoot the actives. Questions, concerns?
argument:
1. New players need help to direct their nightactions properly
2. This plan helps to split the DTs into sane/insane/paranoid/naive and thus we get proper results earlier
sandroba and syllogism don't support that plan. + Show Spoiler +On November 25 2011 21:36 syllogism wrote:
The only real advantage in this DT coordination is giving possibly newer players decent targets and producing some discussion. Other than that you won't be able to figure out your sanity particularly faster.
If you are a sane DT, you check two targets and they come back T T and then flip T T, you've no clue about your sanity; the same is true for pretty much every scenario. Without coordination it's much less likely that your target is framed and thus once your targets flip, you can be more certain of your sanity. It might not take that long anyway given that mafia has 8 kp. I suppose coordination is slightly helpful if one of our DTs flips and he has breadcrumbed his checks properly. On November 25 2011 20:06 sandroba wrote:
There are many problems with this plan. You have to make the whole town agree on the people that should be lynched/shot on the day before. This is by itself non optimal, because you are using one shot vigs on day one and deciding who you are going to lynch with a LOT less information. Day 2 we will 8 kp and possibly roleblocks/hits/claims to analyse. Also we have no idea of mafia roles. Let's supose your propose list has 1 mafia in it and mafia has 2 medics. They can saffely assign the other medic and a framer to a townie, and if that person ends up being hit people will obviously want to lynch him the next day.
This wastes yet another day and his flip does not contribute anything towards revealing sanity, because it could have been tempered with in the previous night or not. The flips of any of the people in the list similarly contribute nothing to clearing sanity.
Example: Sane dt checks framed red -> returns inocent. Said red gets shot/lynched->flips red->sane dt thinks he is naive/insane.
The correct way to use DTs this game:
You check into people you think are suspicious. You don't breadcrumb your role. You breadcrumb your check the next day. You simply say something along the lines: I think X is scum/town because of Y. Or whatever other clever way you can come up with. Be active and contribute in the thread. This will not be suspicious to the mafia because other townies do this all the time. There is a fuckton of people saying they think one player or the other is scum/innocent. Now you ask me how do we figure this guy's sanity? Said DT will at some point claim/die. At that point we look at the breadcrumbs and compare it to the flips in the game so far. We piece toghether the current info and deduce the sanity, the same way a DT would deduce his own sanity. There is no rush for confirming sanities and by focusing on doing so you waste a FUCKTON of information for no benefit. This is a huge, long game. Long term benefits FAR outwheight short term gain to have a DT say "Hey I'm sane and I found 1 single scum, yay", even if such plan to get early sanities was reliable. If we have a bulk of information we can clear/condemn a lot of players with very high likelyhood and get a much better perspecctive on the game as a whole, resulting in nailing much more mafia in the end. On November 25 2011 21:36 sandroba wrote:
You guys don't seem to be understanding what I'm saying. I won't repeat everything over, because I already said why the plan is worse then DTs doing their own thing. No one is stoping anyone from posting lists of suspicious players to help people in their checks. This game is huge, has clues and will go on for a long time if one side does not rape the other. A spread out spectrum of DT checks is much better and safer in terms of sanity clearing than any given list. Shooting a shitton of players early on is bad because you need the kp later to kill fucking 16 mafia, we can't relly on lynching everyone. The longer the game goes more clues and more checks, more rolecop (which is the best role in this game) checks, more flips for dts to find out their sanity. In terms of reliably confirming sanity early your plan does not help. That's all.
argument:
1. It's a long game, and Framers are too much of a threat for the outcome of this plan.
2. A list of scummy players is enough to direct the nightactions properly.
That's basically what we are talking about. I think this discussion is necessary in a huge game like this and therefor protown.
____________________________
We all agree that we have to make a list of scummy players, that deserve a closer look.
I already posted my suspects there:
On November 25 2011 07:12 supersoft wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=126438 + Show Spoiler +On November 25 2011 02:39 redFF wrote:because i think i found scum Show nested quote +"If you are afraid that you might make a silly mistake because this is your first game, and scum will jump on you for it and try to get you lynched, you need to vote me for mayor."
Let me explain why I strongly disagree with that sentence in so many ways:
This sentence appeals to your emotions: This sentence scares you. Noone wants to get lynched for one little mistake.
Town tries to be objective. We want to see the facts. The truth! We don't go the emotional way:
What prplhz hasn't done is to proove what he says: Did he link any games where he defended an innocent townie who was being lynched? I can think of a game where Palmar and I defended innocent townies two days in a row. But I don't have prplhz in mind when it comes down to defend someone who's innocent.
The assumption that scum jumps on you for little mistakes is wrong! In fact, everyone jumps on you for little mistakes! And that is good! We have to start somewhere. And therefor we need a healthy portion of aggression.
If people jump on you, don't be afraid. Explain yourself. Defend yourself. It's part of this game. It's the only way to get informations.
supersoft hit the nail on the head right there. more things Show nested quote +I have the very useful talent to be able to tell bad townie play apart from scummy play. that just seems like a lie with absolutely no backing to appeal to newbies with no idea what they're doing to vote him. Show nested quote +sinani206
I guess he's also running. sinani206 has a reputation for being lurky, emotional and notoriously hard to read. He has not provided any incentive for us to vote for him other than listing past games. The first game is an example of how he apparently single handedly saved the mafia from losing. The second game is a game where he was able to abuse role mechanics to secure a town win. I have not read the other games but as you can probably read from the thread, sinani206 would be a terrible candidate for mayor. We would most likely have to lynch him day2 no matter what his alignment is. it's really weird that he wrote a whole paragraph on sinani... so yeah i would lynch prplz right now Show nested quote +Palmar is also one of those guys who are insanely hard to lynch, I don't want to see a scum Palmar who is unkillable and almost impossible to lynch. this is just wrong, mayor is under a lot more scrutiny and is more likely to be lynched. I completely agree with redFF there: prplhz whole campaign aims on scaring you! "If you are afraid that you might make a silly mistake because this is your first game, and scum will jump on you for it and try to get you lynched, you need to vote me for mayor." "if you are afraid that the mayor will become arrogant and not feel like he has to answer to anybody, you need to vote me for mayor." "If you are afraid of how bad it would be for town to have an unlynchable and unkillable scum leading the town as mayor, then you need to vote for me." Only Scum is constantly afraid of getting lynched for a silly scumslip. Only scum is afraid that they lose their influence and scum is afraid to have an unkillable townmayor. prplhz is pushing a scumagenda. I guess he's scum: Why else would he run for mayor. He complained about the fact that he is getting lynched all the time, no matter what his alignment is. His selfconfidence was/is non-existing. I think he's scum and wants to try something out. The town prplhz is the scummy spammer type of player. NEXT:+ Show Spoiler +On November 24 2011 22:52 Erandorr wrote:
Okay,
Vote Erandorr for Mayor!
I have put some thought into this. People like Palmar, Sandro or BC would be a huge asset for Town if we could be sure of their alignment. Strong town players in those positions can almost win games by themselves. The recent PYP game proves that.
Yet I still feel very uncomfortable . These players all have the skill to massivly fuck over town if they are scum. BC is rumored to have the best Scumplay on TL, Sandro was considered Town for a very long time in PYP with a great early game , and Palmars play is extremely hard to judge, even though he claims differently.
Now why do I think that I am a better candidate then those guys?
- I will be active and try to push town in the right direction. I recently changed my play to this sort of style (Look up Mini Mafia X for that )
- I think I am good enough to get called out on any bad or scummy posts.
- There are incredibly good players to judge my play
- I am transparant
- I am town
Some talking points :
Newbies
Basicly no one is going to play well in their first game. I don't know of anyone who did. But to use something some smart Player once said : The greatest thing you can do as a Townie is making you alignment apparant. If you stay lurking in the shadows, we have nothing to asses you and will probably have to waste Powerroles or lynches to get rid of you. In that case you are actually hurting town more than helping. Thats why there is so much focus on activity. Its okay if your reads are a bit off in your first game, it is usually fairly easy to spot the intentions behind it. It is especially important because we have no information about you , your playstyle and capabilities(Meta)
Lurkers
I still think it would be naive to assume that every newbie will follow those directions. Palmars plan to coordinate Lurker shootings is great, so I will just go ahead and steal it.
If you are not a newbie, please don't pick this game to not give a shit. This is not a game where we can afford it.
My propsed plan on this: Coodinate the lurker shootings and go hard after every experienced player who feels content hiding in the masses of players.
Liars
Don't.
Day1 Lynch
I would never single handedly decide this. In case of being elected, I will try to get a majority, I would , however, never lynch someone I myself have a townread on.
I believe thats it. Vote Erandorr for Mayor! Erandorr, the guy who runs for mayor simply because he can. Don't you think it's disturbing if everyone posts the same boring mayorpost?! Wtf is the purpose of this. Stop disturbing and start contributing. And another one that caused my attention: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=62525He votes redFF and that's okay because i am confident with redFF being sherrif. But overall he's sheeping prplhz a tiny bit too much. random truth btw: Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 03:54 redFF wrote:
EVERYONE WHO HAS POSTED IN THE VOTING THREAD HAS TO COME POST HERE TELLING US WHY THEY VOTED WHO THEY DID. Do it! Last but not least, my vote remains on Palmar. I understand that he's not superagressive right now, because that would cause the noobs to panic. However I expect a little bit more from him.
wbg did it there
On November 25 2011 19:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'll address the plan stuff in detail at the end of this post, as I actually have a solution to some of the concerns. However, it requires that we get around 5-10 good scumreads by the end of today. So, I will start with that.
I have four decent scumreads already.
#1 is youngminii. I've already stated why he is scummy, look into my filter if you desire a reiteration. If anyone has questions, please ask. If he ends up being the day 1 lynch then obviously we can't use him in this plan, but if not I think he should be in there.
#2 is Erandorr.
Erandorr is scummy because he has done nothing to push his mayoral candidacy. He said, in his campaign post, that he would be active and transparent. He has been neither; he has not been playing his "new style," he's been gone this entire time. Beyond that first post, he's done nothing. Good bet for this plan, IMO.
#3 is Blind_Rawr. He showed up, said "things are getting interesting really fast" and then was gone. He was enthusiastic to play but he's been completely absent. He's done nothing. Good bet for a shot n1, and I bet even a lurker vig could shoot him if he's still relatively inactive by then.
#4 is prplhz. His mayoral candidacy was bad, as people have pointed out already (primarily supersoft.) It was aimed at minimizing mistakes, something that generally only scum want to do. Prpl knows this well himself, he's not super dumb. He's been getting better and more confident recently too, so I really doubt he would actually consciously push that as town. I think he's more likely to be scum than town at this point.
and palmars is here:
On November 25 2011 21:30 Palmar wrote:Why youngminii should be on the DT check list We want scummy fuckers on the list. I have for the most part already covered why YM is scummy, and this is mostly just a copy paste of a case I already made against him. For clarity, if anyone wants their analysis on the list, please re-post them with the title "Why X should be on the DT check list".Several things in YM's play so far stick out to me. First off, the immediate goal of his campaign was simply to discredit me. He didn't have any intention of running himself, or actively support anyone else into office. And no matter how good he thinks I am as scum, he cannot possibly be so afraid of me that I will simply autowin the game. I command some respect, but that's over the top. That's simply fear tactics. Notice the difference between YM and BC in what they suppose will happen if I get elected mayor and am scum. YM says it's autowin for scum, and BC says it's okay as long as good townies remain alive. It's simply absurd to think the game is gone if I were scum and voted into office. Once again, it reeks of over the top fear tactics. While it was probably a mistake, youngminii also contradicted his own words, as outlined here: + Show Spoiler +On November 24 2011 22:39 minus_human wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 22:05 youngminii wrote:
See you guys have already been sucked in by Palmar's smooth talking. When did I ever say Palmar's scum is better than his town? That's just a strawman that Palmar invented to make his own points stronger.
Show nested quote +On November 24 2011 18:37 youngminii wrote:I am one of the most transparent player in this game, my town play is top notch, my scum play is pretty bad
Unlike some other candidates, you can actually call me out for being wrong, because I'm not bad This is a lie. Your scum play is better than your town play, according to memory. You have so much sway with the majority of people that if anyone actually calls you out once you have your tight rein on town, you'll get your herd to quick lynch the offender. hmm... I also find it weird how he's so much against putting me in office just in case I happen to be scum, while being perfectly fine with supporting sandroba, based on very little. Not to mention he tries to paint an opinion as a lie. It's simply bending the truth. I've said multiple times I consider my own town play to be better than my scum play, in other games, and possibly even in threads that aren't games like the misc thread. By definition you cannot lie about something that is an opinion. It's pretty damning that YM flops so easily on his opinions. I want people to understand that despite saying he's not 100% sure I'm scum, he publicly stated that he was willing to support any candidate whose plan was to lynch me on day 1. + Show Spoiler +On November 25 2011 05:06 youngminii wrote:
FYI I still want Palmar dead just because he's caused so much trouble for me thus far. And still pushing for my death. On November 25 2011 05:48 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2011 05:43 Nisani201 wrote:On November 25 2011 05:32 wherebugsgo wrote:On November 25 2011 05:29 Nisani201 wrote:On November 25 2011 05:19 sandroba wrote:
You are wrong at your assumption nisani. You do want a mayor that can persuade the town on his reads and one that has good reads. No, YOU are wrong. If a mayor is persuasive, it is bad because there is the possibility of them being wrong. Being wrong about a read is OK, but it is not OK when you are successfully convincing someone else that you are wrong IN ADDITION TO having a 3x vote. A persuasive mayor that is scum is even worse. That is why I am voting for xtfftc; even if he is scum, he wont have too much power. So in a game that's about persuasion, a persuasive scumhunter is bad in mayoral office? Beyond that, all I hear from you is "derp derp derp derp" Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. No one deserves that much power. Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaank you. Someone with some fucking sense. This will only make sense to the players who have played mafia on TL quite a bit. But it's pretty common knowledge Nisani201 is a completely useless town player. He increases mafia's chance of winning no matter which side he is on. And Nisani's point is bad logic. The only reason to prevent me from gaining power is if you have a reason to believe I'm scum. I am not scum, and there is no evidence pointing towards me being scum. youngminii is basically buddying up to terrible logic. If those guys made a case that somehow pointed towards me being scum, then it'd be a whole different story. youngminii is pushing fear over analysis and logic.Finally: + Show Spoiler +On November 25 2011 06:45 youngminii wrote:
I've had a change of heart.
Palmar, I'll support you if you decide to lynch BC. I can't see how a detective/rolecop day 1 plan to check their sanity would be feasible in a huge game like this with so many new players. You'd think a player of his experience would know better than that.
I mean, he recognises that certain things aren't possible in a game like this: "Also, enforcing a Policy Lynch system like LAL in a game of noobies who do not realize just how bad a lie is in this game is not productive. It is good to educate them that lying is bad but until they see the downside to it we will not get them to stop."
He reeks of scum. Suddenly it's ok to vote me into office, but only if I work like a complacent little bitch and lynch the person he wants to get lynched. This is bad on so many levels. The case against BC isn't even particularly good. I have no reason to think youngminii can possibly be town at this point, and that only leaves one alignment: youngminii is scum
__________
Okay, you read this and you are town. You want to know what you can do to support us?
1. Vote either sandroba/BC/Palmar
They are not 100% town, I know. But I think at two of them most likely are.
2. Go read the thread and search for scummy behaviour. Anything that comes in your mind and you post it!
Work on the scummy-players-list!
If you happen to be on the scummy players-list, defend yourself by explaining your mindset behind the posts that got you into that trouble!
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Supersoft why are telling people to vote for people who you don't believe to be 100% town?
You just hoping that through the gods of Mafia we end up voting for the 2 of the 3 that are town?
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Please make a formal case with your strongest scumread supersoft, we need more cases.
Current candidates for the DT list:
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On November 25 2011 23:17 Benjef wrote:
Supersoft why are telling people to vote for people who you don't believe to be 100% town?
You just hoping that through the gods of Mafia we end up voting for the 2 of the 3 that are town?
ah well. I never trust anyone in a mafiagame. But you have to make a decision. There are no better candidates. Everyone else is less active and less protown than these guys. Because of that I stick with them.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
woahhhh wait a minute,wait a god damn fucking minute,I was to buys saying good bye to real life for this.
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On November 25 2011 23:22 BLinD-RawR wrote:
woahhhh wait a minute,wait a god damn fucking minute,I was to buys saying good bye to real life for this.
Do you have any intentions of actually playing the game?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
of course I am,here i am aren't I.
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On November 25 2011 23:26 BLinD-RawR wrote:
of course I am,here i am aren't I.
Notice that little "filter" button in the top right of each of your posts.
Click it, and then you'll see why I'm worried.
What do you think about the people running for mayor? Do you have any scumreads so far? Have you actually read everything?
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Palmar, I think my post contains enough for prplhz and erandorr. I don't know what to write about these two since we already wrote more text about them, than they actually wrote text in the thread.
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I'm in support of of the DT plan
In the midst of all the sanity/framer/miller stuff - I mean yeah theres always that possibility but the probability of those cases happening is not that high. Especially with the random target checking. The plan provides directions for newer players or else its very likely multiple DTs will check the same target (usually the more vocal / standouts).
I do think there is a sense of urgency for the DTs to figure out sanities / maximize their potential as scum do have 8 kp + all the VIGs out there (i hope they dont miss but they do). There isn't really that much time before scum KP gets out of control. Honestly we need to contribute the most we can while we're alive and the DT plan I think is a good first step in the right direction.
Voting picture:
Palmar at a deadheat with Sandroba with around 10 votes each
BC with 6 votes, GreyMist at 4
nearly half the players have yet to vote. Lot of potential for mod kills here so lets get active!
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On November 25 2011 19:36 wherebugsgo wrote:I'm going to blatantly repost this since I think it'll get more attention if it's at the top of the page. Yeah I just finished reading that after I finished that post. I was reading backward into the thread lol. I'll address the plan stuff in detail at the end of this post, as I actually have a solution to some of the concerns. However, it requires that we get around 5-10 good scumreads by the end of today. So, I will start with that. I have four decent scumreads already. #1 is youngminii. I've already stated why he is scummy, look into my filter if you desire a reiteration. If anyone has questions, please ask. If he ends up being the day 1 lynch then obviously we can't use him in this plan, but if not I think he should be in there. #2 is Erandorr.Erandorr is scummy because he has done nothing to push his mayoral candidacy. He said, in his campaign post, that he would be active and transparent. He has been neither; he has not been playing his "new style," he's been gone this entire time. Beyond that first post, he's done nothing. Good bet for this plan, IMO. #3 is Blind_Rawr. He showed up, said "things are getting interesting really fast" and then was gone. He was enthusiastic to play but he's been completely absent. He's done nothing. Good bet for a shot n2, and I bet even a lurker vig could shoot him if he's still relatively inactive by then. #4 is prplhz. His mayoral candidacy was bad, as people have pointed out already (primarily supersoft.) It was aimed at minimizing mistakes, something that generally only scum want to do. Prpl knows this well himself, he's not super dumb. He's been getting better and more confident recently too, so I really doubt he would actually consciously push that as town. I think he's more likely to be scum than town at this point. My Addendum to BC's Plan: Optimally, we get like 4-6 more scumreads so that we can get a good list of around 8-10 people we want dead. Indeed, they don't all have to be checked n1. Some can be checked n1, some can be checked n2. Essentially, the way I imagine it working is like this: Step 1: We assign each player on the list of potential scum a number. Let's imagine that our list is this: 1. youngminii 2. prplhz 3. Erandorr 4. Blind_Rawr So, what we do is this: any DT who accepts the plan who is in the top 1/4 of players will check youngminii. This would be any DT in this list: + Show Spoiler +1.) Erandorr
2.) Tyrran
3.) kitaman27
4.) sandroba
5.) bonifaceviii
6.) Kurumi
7.) BLinD-RawR
8.) tnkted
9.) GreYMisT
10.) Serejai
11.) Toadesstern
12.) tube
13.) redFF
14.) Vain
15.) eezyBash
16.) Mattchew
17.) Jackal58
18.) Belial-
19.) Palmar
20.) MrZentor Step 2: Coordinate the DTs on n1 and n2 Any DT who is in the second quarter will check #2, prplhz. So, that means, any DT in this list: + Show Spoiler +21.) Risen
22.) Nokarot
23,) risk.nuke
24.) minus_human
25.) IMABUNNEH
26.) wherebugsgo
27.) dukethegold
28.) iLoveKT
29.) mcht
30.) ohN
31.) The1stNewbie
32.) t3tsubo
33.) cosine
34.) xtfftc
35.) DeadlyPsycho
36.) hyshes
37.) Chanyman
38.) Drazerk
39.) Penke
40.) ey215 And so on. Statistically it is equally likely for our DTs to be in any one of these lists. Once we split it 8-10 ways with 8-10 different players, we actually have it even better. On n1, have all the DTs in the top quarter/fifth flip a coin and pick either player #1 or player #2. Have all the players in the second quarter/fifth flip a coin and pick either #3 or #4, and so on. On n2, have all the DTs pick the other player. This type of random DT check mechanism makes it incredibly hard for scum to manipulate. All the DTs will be guaranteed two checks, with many of them having both checks flip on day 3. We can even lynch into the list to ensure that at least one player flips by day 3. Step 3: Coordinate the vigilantes on n2. We do the same exact thing with the vigges on n2. The vigilantes can't shoot till n2. That's fine. We have them shoot with the same mechanism, into the list of players. Some DTs will hopefully have two flipped targets. Some will have only one, but that's still good. Millers will flip as miller. Scum will flip scum. Most misleading mechanics will be dealt with. Framing will only work for the targets that live, and with this plan most of them should die. Vigilantes who shoot into the list and their target does not die MUST CLAIM THE SHOT IMMEDIATELY. This means that their target was protected, and in this plan the only people who are protected are scum, since it would be moronic for a town doctor to be protecting into a public list of scumreads.This plan will optimally give a majority of our DTs their sanity checks by day 3, and it will eliminate most of the players we think are scummy based on analysis. That's really good. We can also add lurkers to this list and use the lurker vigges as well. We'd have to intersperse them a little more, but it would work similarly to how the DTs would check. If the list is half lurker scummy and half non lurker scummy then the lurker vigges can shoot the lurkies and the regulars can shoot the actives. Questions, concerns?
Still catching up on the thread, but I support this. It's well thought out, logical, and gets our DTs their sanity checked quickly.
To clarify, to make sure I understand, you are saying we build a list of about 8players, and the vigilantes will shoot into them, giving the DTs something to confirm their flips?
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Well I'm using red's case then.
Current candidates for the DT list:
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derp.
Current candidates for the DT list:
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personally i think although the number of scum is high at 16 - we do have 80 players so the potential to bus is really limited to 1 candidate. And with past experience that scum almost always pushes one candidate of their own leads me to think one of the top vote getters is scum
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On November 25 2011 23:42 zeks wrote:
personally i think although the number of scum is high at 16 - we do have 80 players so the potential to bus is really limited to 1 candidate. And with past experience that scum almost always pushes one candidate of their own leads me to think one of the top vote getters is scum
Bad logic.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
scumreads so far, youngminii.
youngminii,after reading his posts its clear to me that he is scum.
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On November 25 2011 23:42 zeks wrote:
personally i think although the number of scum is high at 16 - we do have 80 players so the potential to bus is really limited to 1 candidate. And with past experience that scum almost always pushes one candidate of their own leads me to think one of the top vote getters is scum
Can you point me to a game where this happened? In my experience mafia tries to spread out their votes and not focus on their candidate solely.
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lol zeks. that plan would be extremely risky. I hope they do that. I really do. Most likely they'll spread their votes all over the place and run 2++ independant mayorcandidates.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
On November 25 2011 23:42 zeks wrote:
personally i think although the number of scum is high at 16 - we do have 80 players so the potential to bus is really limited to 1 candidate. And with past experience that scum almost always pushes one candidate of their own leads me to think one of the top vote getters is scum
Disagree. Considering the fact that a lot of players have yet to show their hand in the voting (admittedly that includes me,) there are no indications as of yet about whether scum have put their support behind a candidate. When the votes are up to the 60-70 mark, that may be the case though
I haven't voted yet because I feel that the two "factions" have some valid points. However, as it is right now, I am leaning towards Palmar. While both sides may have reasonable points of interest, I currently feel that the modified DT plan is solid and logical, and its clearly stated how it could or could not affect the game. On top of this, I agree with Palmar's scumread on youngminii. His attempt at discredit had no real value, and his logic is contradicting himself. To me it feels like he's scum, or just a very unreliable townie. Either way, I feel he needs to go.
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EPT
