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Yes.
I mean .. what kind of question is that?
I'd rather lynch wherebugsgo than lynch anybody else. If neither sandroba nor deconduo thinks that wherebugsgo is scum, then there's a good chance that he's town. If wherebugsgo is town then he's probably better at judging this situation than I am. That's why, if I can't lynch wherebugsgo, I'm going to follow him. It is up to sandroba and deconduo if they want to lynch the other dude then you have to reason with wherebugsgo. You must realize that if he is town, then he's a lot easier to reason with than I am, he is better at playing town than I am. If somebody wants a no lynch we can do that but you need to have something to add tomorrow 'cause other than that you're just going to lose a townie in exchange for WIFOM, or you'll have a repeat of today and I see no reason for that unless you have something to actually add. If you tell me you need more time I will no lynch, if not then I will proceed with voting with wherebugsgo.
You've been lazy all game and you've lynched two townies. I don't see why you couldn't be scum even though I think it would be weird how you acted on day1 and how you've acted today. I still think that wherbugsgo is the last scum but I gotta listen to sandroba and deconduo, one of them is town right? Also, I'm sick and tired of pushing wherebugsgo, I've been doing it for like a week and there's only ever been one single other vote on him, for like a couple of hours.
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Since sarcasm doesn't really work over the internet, no I would not like to lose the game. I guess we can no lynch if any of sandroba or deconduo wants but of course the guy who is getting lynched wants to no lynch. I guess I'll have to say that if wherebugsgo thinks he knows who the last scum is then we will lynch that guy, if sandroba and deconduo agrees to vote wherebugsgo then we'll lynch that guy.
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Then why doesn't wherebugsgo want to lynch him?
Can anybody answer this question?!
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I already said I think Meapak_Ziphh/deconduo is scummier than sandroba but not by so much I'd want to put all my eggs in that bag. If you agree that we should lynch him then lets go ahead.
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I think if sandroba had been scum he wouldn't have doubted your claim. Your claim was very breadcrumbed and I had already made a post saying that I thought that sandroba was very town so he would have no reason to not just say that you and I are confirmed town and that we need to lynch Meapak_Ziphh. I think sandroba would have tried to close the game.
I also don't think he is scum because he just shut down the option of him voting hiro protagonist on day1. He just said "I don't feel that his posts are genuine" and that is characteristic lazy sandroba, and he couldn't really flip flop on it. At that point there were a lot of people who were starting to take a good look at Mr. Wiggles and I don't think scum sandroba would have tried to shut down hiro protagonist so hard if he was scum, he would have left the door open.
I think that him lynching hiro protagonist and jaybrundage was shit. This speaks against him but it's classic lazy sandroba again. He already said day1 that he has problems with bad/scum distinction but I don't know how true that is since I only have his word for it.
Meapak_Ziphh has not been very impressive. Nothing speaks in his favor except how I don't think that scum would bus on day1, and if they did they would probably do it harder. When Mr. Wiggles started his case on Meapak_Ziphh the lynch would very likely be between the two, why didn't Meapak_Ziphh vote Mr. Wiggles for town credit then? Instead he stayed on hiro protagonist. Maybe they were afraid that the distancing would be too obvious if Meapak_Ziphh bussed on an OMGUS of sort, maybe Meapak_Ziphh had attacked hiro protagonist too hard to think that he could switch, but a lot of people had switched from hiro protagonist on hardly any reasonable other than "dun thnk hes scum" why shouldn't he be able to do that too?
Conclusion: Meapak_Ziphh is more scummy than sandroba.
As for words like "genuine" and "fabricated" and stuff like that, I have no idea. Mr. Wiggles' stuff looked fake, but the reads I'm getting from sandroba and Meapak_Ziphh are too weak that I'm gonna trust them. If you held a gun to my head I'd say that sandroba looked more fake but that's nothing to go on at all.
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I say that Meapak_Ziphh wasn't distancing, but Mr. Wiggles was. I think this is a bit weird, since there was no reason for Meapak_Ziphh not to jump on Mr. Wiggles at that point and claim some town credit for the lynch of a red. He could have been the 4th vote on Mr. Wiggles but instead he ended up on hiro protagonist. Why would he do that?
Why would Mr. Wiggles, who had already been called out for being fake and fabricated, try to make a case on Meapak_Ziphh? He could have doomed his scumbuddy if he had slipped up somehow.
I'm the wrong person to ask about the credit thing, because I have a hard time caring about stuff like that. I believe sandroba is telling the truth from his perspective, he probably thinks he was the first one to point out. If he wasn't, then he made a mistake, a mistake that might just as well have been a townie mistake as it could have been a scum mistake. This is a 20 page game, not some 200 page monster. He will be called out when he says stuff like that, to me it's a null tell really. I ,too, actually thought at some point during this game that I was the first to call Mr. Wiggles out but then I reread the thread and I think you were the first one to call him out. It seems like lazy sandroba to me, and I don't think it says very much about his alignment.
I don't think there is any denying that sandroba had a big role in Mr. Wiggles demise on day1, but that is mainly due to his opposition to the hiro protagonist lynch and his support of the Mr. Wiggles lynch, not so much his vote even though it obviously did something too.
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wherebugsgo changed his vote.
##Unvote
##Vote deconduo
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I am very uncomfortable with you listening to me. We all know that you're jailer now, you can start being KICKASS again, you can't hide behind your "Oh I'm trying to not attract any scum attention because then maybe they'll kill me and I'm blue!" anymore. I'm not really the best townie around and I can mention 5 things I missed on those points I just made, and it would surprise me if wherebugsgo couldn't mention 500 things more.
If deconduo and sandroba find out that they'd rather lynch wherebugsgo I'm still all for that, lol.
Also, this has been a very fun game. It's really hard to tie scum to somebody else when he dies night1. I think we wasted 2 lynches just blindly following sandroba on his crusade against newer players. These things have left us in a pretty hard situation here at mylo.
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@deconduo
That shit is scummy as fuck. You're trying to convince sandroba not to vote for you right now.
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If it isn't clear yet, I'm not changing my vote until sandroba changes.
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Yea you are screwed deconduo, I can only agree with you on that.
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Hey guys
I try to learn something from every game I am in but I am having a hard time seeing what I could have done differently in this game. I feel like I had good reads and I really tried hard to argue for myself but it just seemed like there was no way to convince anybody of anything I said. I argued against lynching jaybrundage and against lynching hiro protagonist and all the while I argued for lynching wherebugsgo. Was there anything I could have done differently/better to maybe have a better chance of getting wherebugsgo lynched over the two townies? I really think I thought everything through very thoroughly and I didn't think it would make sense that anybody else should be the last scum. I got this idea at the beginning of day2 and it stayed with me all the way.
I have no idea how I was able to argue for the same lynch 3 days in a row without getting lynched, shot or having my lynch go through. I would like if somebody could possibly explain this to me.
There was probably a lot I missed and maybe I even suspected wherebugsgo for the wrong reasons, maybe this was why I could not garner any support at all. How could I have made wherebugsgo slip up in a way that would convince other people to consider the possibility of him being scum? Was there anything I should have mentioned that I didn't? I think I wrote a ton of stuff about him in the thread and I never seriously considered that anybody else could be scum. It just didn't make any sense when I thought about it.
About my doctor role, I think it used it absolutely right. sandroba and Palmar were my candidates for night1 protect. There were no major reasons to have either one with me into mid/late game over the other, and they were obviously prime targets for a scum that had to take chances after a disastrous day1. Maybe I should have brought Palmar because he stays more active, but I thought that sandroba is better scum hunter and that he is more level headed and less likely just go on a crusade and have everybody follow mostly because of his reputation. It's too far fetched to say anything about how the game would have turned out if I had protected Palmar over sandroba on night1, but if I could play this over I'd definitely give him benefit of the doubt and protect Palmar instead.
wherebugsgo played a terrific game and I'm sure he had his fun too, but I also think that town did pretty bad considering what a great start we had.
Thanks to Radfield and chaoser for hosting.
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On November 26 2011 19:54 jaj22 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2011 10:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Let's kill hiro, and then afterward we'll need to reevaluate.
Couldn't believe no-one picked up on this at the time :-)
What is there to pick up? That's what sandroba thought too and he's one of the best regular townies on this subforum.
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The reason I held it off was because wherebugsgo claimed and then the ball was in sandroba/Meapak_Ziphh's court. I was sure that I thought that wherebugsgo was scum, but since everybody else doubted me there were at least 2 townies out there who didn't think I was right and I was arguably the worst townie of those by experience/skill/etc. I doubted myself. So I waited to see if sandroba/Meapak_Ziphh would mess up and claim doc or something. I thought I was 100% town in people's mind at that point (but now that I think about it, I almost always think that everybody else thinks I'm 100% town) and I thought they'd believe my claim over Meapak_Ziphh any day if he decided to claim. Also, if sandroba/Meapak_Ziphh claimed doc then I would know that he was last scum and then wherebugsgo would be townie and blah blah blah, I didn't think delaying my claim a little could go wrong and I would have a chance to convince myself that sandroba/Meapak_Ziphh actually was scum for free. I did decide to come out with my claim very early on the day because of the lack of activity, people would maybe not check the thread in the next 24 hours and they still needed time to digest my claim before deadline and I still thought that wherebugsgo was scum.
I couldn't tell that you were feeling on your game and I have no idea if what that means, if anything, really.
Also, last day was mylo, not lylo.
So why should I have claimed first thing at mylo/lylo? I think if you're considered townie then you might as well just wait and see if somebody else claims something stupid and then you just won the game.
The jaybrundage lynch was very stupid I think too but maybe for different reasons, I tried to prevent it from happening but I thought that if sandroba got jaybrundage out of the way maybe he'll come around and see things my way. This was also one of the reasons I thought wherebugsgo was scum, I doubt he would have allowed that to happen but I was kinda powerless. How could I have prevented it? I made an argument that he seemed genuinely newbie, his day1 vote didn't fit how I think newbie scum would play, and Mr. Wiggles would have left him something to go by which he would have followed, and that something wasn't "go for sandroba". What could I have done more to prevent it? The logic itself "Mr. Wiggles probably had a scum buddy with low to no town pull" is (obviously) not fail proof, even though I think it's not too stupid either.
@wherebugsgo
I'm very interested, did you hit sandroba on night4 or did you just hold your shot? If you hit sandroba then that makes your jailer claim even more impressive, but yea I doubt it. Also, why didn't you just hit me and then make lynch between sandroba/Meakap_Ziphh/deconduo on last day with your jailer claim?
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On November 26 2011 20:26 jaj22 wrote:
It's missing the qualifier for the case that Hiro is scum (and so no re-evaluation would be required), which suggests that the possibility isn't prominent in his mind. Odd given that he had Hiro as one of his two scum candidates at the start of the day.
I may be wrong, but I felt it was a line that WBG was unlikely to write in the circumstances if he wasn't scum.
Maybe you're right but I'm just not a big fan of stuff like that. A one liner is nothing to lynch by, it might attract some attention but that thing there, I doubt it would have convinced anybody of anything. Did you follow the game by the way, I have never seen you in here before? You should join a game some time.
I mean a townie would have to reevaluate if the lynch is town too. Some people say that townies should always just think that their lynch is 100% scum but the only people who know other people's alignment for sure are scum. If anything, this is an unnecessary townie tell that really just degenerates into WIFOM so I would just ignore it (and I did).
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On November 27 2011 07:02 syllogism wrote:
Sandroba actually thought you were 99% scum after the claim because your protections made no sense at all. You had the game won until you made the claim as sandroba was completely convinced meapak was it before that
sandroba didn't think wherebugsgo was scum, he voted him briefly after I claimed doc but then he decided that the claim was too good for wherebugsgo to be scum and he voted deconduo. Game over. If wherebugsgo had not claimed and Meapak_Ziphh or sandroba had been jailer and claimed that, then he would have to counter claim and that would put him in a more difficult situation I think. He might as well just claim straight up, especially when he had it breadcrumbed so well.
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EPT
