EPTScum, what was the reason you did the nightkills that you did? Why kill X and not Y? Were I anywhere near on the night 2 kills, that you wanted Nisani to die day 3 and avoided killing those against the lynch?
Steamship Liquidia (TL Mafia 46) - Page 127
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
Scum, what was the reason you did the nightkills that you did? Why kill X and not Y? Were I anywhere near on the night 2 kills, that you wanted Nisani to die day 3 and avoided killing those against the lynch? | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
I tried to approach it like a small game, where I assume everyone is going to be involved and actually play the game properly, instead of approaching it for what it is, a huge game filled with trolls and players who have no interest in playing the game. There were a grand total of maybe 5 people actually trying to win the game as town. Tyrran, Me, Bugs, risk.nuke and LSB. Perhaps we can give HarbringerOfDoom and prplhz the benefit of the doubt. Sadly, chaoser decided to troll the game hardcore, without thinking about the consequences of it. Obviously I got tunneled in on him pretty bad. I would probably have dropped the case completely if MrZentor hadn't fucked around with the claim in the end. The multi-lynch and no vigi system was terrible. We had no reliable way of clearing out lurkers. Every TL town over the size of 16-ish should have a non-limit vigilante to shoot lurkers and useless people. It's very hard to play when like 5-6 townies earn themselves an auto-lynch if town is playing correctly, I'll list some of them up. DCXLVI: Claiming miller. If you're gonna claim it, you claim it in your first post. If not, you shut up until someone waltzes in with a guilty claim. You need to be EXTREMELY pro-town if you're a miller. Why didn't you play like Tyrran and Bugs and risk.nuke and HoD? Miller claims should ALWAYS be autolynched if they're not 1st post on day 1. Lanaia: Just fucking say something when you're gonna anti-vote kenpachi. Or better yet, don't use the anti-vote and just give us reasons why we're doing the wrong thing. If you used your head for half a second you would've seen where your vote would lead. LemonWalrus: You basically have what constitutes an innocent check on me night 1. That's when you start supporting me and my group of people. Not from the shadows, but loud and up front. We needed more people to fight the stupidity and you could be sure I wasn't scum. Why the hell not actually contribute and help? Nisani201: Should be autolynched for being the dumbest person to ever play mafia games. Nothing he ever says or does increases the town's chance of winning. Lynching him day 1 is actually optimal play for town in any situation. xsksc: All you had to do to clear yourself perfectly and contribute to the game was to support me right on day 2. We had more than enough confirmed townies. When you know a faction is town drive, you align yourself with it. I want to re-iterate: By day 2, We could have had a faction of like 10 confirmed/semi-confirmed townies in WBG/Me/Tyrran/HoD (through analysis/obvious town) prplhz (by extension, I knew he was innocent) hyshes/drazer (by mason claim) xsksc (by doc save on me n1) LemonWalrus (by rolecheck on me being alignment cop n1) Lanaia (because we decided that her being mafia would be retarded) If everyone in this list would have contributed to the game, aligned themselves with the faction obviously being driven by town we would have steamrolled this game. But instead, we had to deal with people not applying themselves to the game, giving vague statements and jumping terrible bandwagons. I'm not gonna try to push all the blame on everyone else. I apparently still manage to always be controversial even when I'm playing obviously pro-town, get 2 innocent checks (save/rolecheck) on me night 1 etc. This means there is something wrong with my town play. If I didn't suck at mafia everyone in the game would always know I'm town on day 1. I clearly need to be doing something differently for people to actually sit down and listen to me. Last but not least, disappointing performance from Bumatlarge, he's actively not putting in any effort. that shit sucks. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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xsksc
United Kingdom1044 Posts
On November 30 2011 18:43 Palmar wrote: This is the problem with big games. I tried to approach it like a small game, where I assume everyone is going to be involved and actually play the game properly, instead of approaching it for what it is, a huge game filled with trolls and players who have no interest in playing the game. Yeah, I was awful, but I wasn't trolling or not taking it seriously, just bad. I was pretty nervous about posting much, we'd already lost blues and I was scared of accidently saying something stupid or revealing I guess, lol. My plan was keep you alive and try not to die... I definitely should have posted loads more. | ||
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Tyrran
France777 Posts
First of all, thanks a lot Zona for hosting the game. The setup was really great, and i overall had a lot of fun playing ( even if we lost). Cool abilities, cool background story ( Steamship = Spaceship obviously =p ), i'll be looking forward for the next games you host. Overall we had a few good players but we had a really hard time sticking together as town. Lots of people were just votin randomly, and didnt really think enough. I somehow hoped that we could create a group town around me/palmar/WBG, but we were unable to have town follow us. From my part, i think i did OK for a first forum based game, even if the only scum i found was Sabin010, and he got modkilled anyway. Hopefully i'll get better on the next games. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On November 30 2011 18:57 syllogism wrote: I'm so sick of "veterans" who don't post enough to even establish their own innocence OR support the right people This is the core of the issue. Way too many mafia players are afraid of being wrong. There is nothing wrong with being wrong, if you give ample reasoning as for why you're wrong, and are willing to listen to logic as to why your logic was bad. Everyone makes bad calls. But you need to pick sides. And you need to be willing to reconsider which side you're on. You will see circles form in games of people who trust each other. If you see this, you should do research into why they trust each other, or simply ask them. They will provide reasoning. You need to support someone. The worst town play is to stay in your own corner and not trust anyone. Remember that statistically you can randomly buddy up with someone and he has 70-80% chance of being town. Using a bit of analysis increases that value. What this means is that no town can afford players who don't commit themselves. Sadly we have to balance mafia games around people who don't intend to actually play. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On November 30 2011 19:34 Tyrran wrote: GG Scum. First of all, thanks a lot Zona for hosting the game. The setup was really great, and i overall had a lot of fun playing ( even if we lost). Cool abilities, cool background story ( Steamship = Spaceship obviously =p ), i'll be looking forward for the next games you host. Overall we had a few good players but we had a really hard time sticking together as town. Lots of people were just votin randomly, and didnt really think enough. I somehow hoped that we could create a group town around me/palmar/WBG, but we were unable to have town follow us. From my part, i think i did OK for a first forum based game, even if the only scum i found was Sabin010, and he got modkilled anyway. Hopefully i'll get better on the next games. You played very well and I hope to play again with you in the future. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On November 30 2011 19:07 xsksc wrote: Yeah, I was awful, but I wasn't trolling or not taking it seriously, just bad. I was pretty nervous about posting much, we'd already lost blues and I was scared of accidently saying something stupid or revealing I guess, lol. My plan was keep you alive and try not to die... I definitely should have posted loads more. Being nervous and being afraid of being wrong are tools mafia exploits. When I'm playing scum I will undermine trust in town as hard as I can. I will bus partners at the right moments to discredit townies. I will viciously attack arguments to make people doubt themselves, and I will try to break up any attempt at forming a town group. You can only imagine how glad mafia is when town does this all for them, so they can just sit back and enjoy the ride. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On November 30 2011 19:51 Palmar wrote: This is the core of the issue. Way too many mafia players are afraid of being wrong. There is nothing wrong with being wrong, if you give ample reasoning as for why you're wrong, and are willing to listen to logic as to why your logic was bad. Everyone makes bad calls. But you need to pick sides. And you need to be willing to reconsider which side you're on. You will see circles form in games of people who trust each other. If you see this, you should do research into why they trust each other, or simply ask them. They will provide reasoning. You need to support someone. The worst town play is to stay in your own corner and not trust anyone. Remember that statistically you can randomly buddy up with someone and he has 70-80% chance of being town. Using a bit of analysis increases that value. What this means is that no town can afford players who don't commit themselves. Sadly we have to balance mafia games around people who don't intend to actually play. This is one of the main reasons I avoid large games now. over 25ish players and I won't generally play anymore. I prefer less than 20 player games, this game seemed interesting so I made an exception. I was busy so I couldn't contribute anymore near as much as I should of been able to. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
This was fun. It was fun. The fact that I was newbie played to my side very hard. AND Palmar going claim ALL the roles thing basically gave us the game because of Grey's powers lololololo I claimed that medic roleblocker thing(apparently it's called a 'jailer' not a 'restraining doc', but it works too heh) to do exactly what I did to Lanaia: so she confirms that I'm town when I roleblocked her. Yeah, we just had to sit back and watch most of the time. The first few posts where I attacked chaoser were actually directed by Cyber_Cheese, not myself. My personality could be seen only after that bs. Also, I love how at some point wbg nailed us all. He never gave good explanation('lol you're scum; if you think this is town you are sad'), but it's awesome how he had that intuitive read  I'll definitely play much more Mafia with you guys, I loved it. I just think you are all too aggressive, but I guess it's part of the spirit of the game heh :D | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On November 30 2011 20:25 Zephirdd wrote: Now I officially have 100% winrate on TL woohoo! This was fun. It was fun. The fact that I was newbie played to my side very hard. AND Palmar going claim ALL the roles thing basically gave us the game because of Grey's powers lololololo I claimed that medic roleblocker thing(apparently it's called a 'jailer' not a 'restraining doc', but it works too heh) to do exactly what I did to Lanaia: so she confirms that I'm town when I roleblocked her. Yeah, we just had to sit back and watch most of the time. The first few posts where I attacked chaoser were actually directed by Cyber_Cheese, not myself. My personality could be seen only after that bs. Also, I love how at some point wbg nailed us all. He never gave good explanation('lol you're scum; if you think this is town you are sad'), but it's awesome how he had that intuitive read I'll definitely play much more Mafia with you guys, I loved it. I just think you are all too aggressive, but I guess it's part of the spirit of the game heh :D Please play more, you did well for a first time mafia player, but it's always easy to get off your first scum game, because people will ignore you. and yes, Greymist's role was bullshit, Mass-claiming should be a viable town strategy. It's retarded to have mechanics directly punishing it. It should be punished by mafia having good fake-claims. (which is also why I hate role cops and detectives, but like alignment cops, mafia can easily fake those). | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
That's not a good position to be in, and does not allow you to come in and tell townies how they should or should not have been playing. | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On November 30 2011 21:04 Palmar wrote: Please play more, you did well for a first time mafia player, but it's always easy to get off your first scum game, because people will ignore you. and yes, Greymist's role was bullshit, Mass-claiming should be a viable town strategy. It's retarded to have mechanics directly punishing it. It should be punished by mafia having good fake-claims. (which is also why I hate role cops and detectives, but like alignment cops, mafia can easily fake those). The Op did warn you.... | ||
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GreYMisT
United States6736 Posts
On November 30 2011 18:17 Forumite wrote: gg wp Scum, what was the reason you did the nightkills that you did? Why kill X and not Y? Were I anywhere near on the night 2 kills, that you wanted Nisani to die day 3 and avoided killing those against the lynch? I can comment more but im about to go to class. I think i wanted to kill you the night we killed bugs, but we decided on him instead. Who protected lanaia night 1, haha. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
that's a meme right? Yawn. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22631 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:08 chaoser wrote: plays bad with shitty reads that caused chaos, blames others for playing bad thus causing your shitty reads. that's a meme right? Yawn. Not meta, just not optimal play. I expect some townies to play optimally. Anyway, it is irrelevant, your alignment was not of any big concern that game because you had no chance of joining that town group if you aligned yourself. I'm not blaming you, I specifically said that I had much to improve upon, that doesn't mean I can't point out things that went wrong. You made yourself a target on day 1. That's always an issue. | ||
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Forumite
Sweden3280 Posts
On December 01 2011 00:18 GreYMisT wrote: I can comment more but im about to go to class. I think i wanted to kill you the night we killed bugs, but we decided on him instead. Who protected lanaia night 1, haha. Damn, I got lynched right before that night. At least I´m making progress. I looked Town the first few days, until I got super paranoid from lack of dead scum and pressured Palmar. | ||
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chaoser
United States5541 Posts
On December 01 2011 01:29 Palmar wrote: Not meta, just not optimal play. I expect some townies to play optimally. Anyway, it is irrelevant, your alignment was not of any big concern that game because you had no chance of joining that town group if you aligned yourself. I'm not blaming you, I specifically said that I had much to improve upon, that doesn't mean I can't point out things that went wrong. You made yourself a target on day 1. That's always an issue. You do realize that any definition of "optimal" is flawed because there's no way to measure that right? Not to mention, at any point in time, to expect people to play optimally is inherently flawed due to outside world factors. If you mean everyone should play in one specific manner that you consider optimal than I'd rather not play mafia anymore cause that's just silly. Coag and kenpachi should clearly just stop playing if people are going to lynch them straight up day 1 cause they are no where close to "optimal" play even though they're boss at not only catching mafia but shooting the shit out of them the meme was aimed at WBG btw. The way you both approached day 1 was so flawed with the tunneling and playing solely based on some misconceived notion about my "meta", not to mention the excessive tunneling on me. I was waiting and waiting for you guys to be like ok, I'm tunneling, I need to reassess and you guys never did it, which was ridiculous. You need two people to dance that tango on day 1/2 and you and WBG directly contributed to that chaos by tunneling. So don't go around saying people played bad and caused chaos and fucked up your reads when you were the one playing horribly and played an equal part in causing said chaos (addressed to WBG, obviously) | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
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