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On December 01 2011 02:15 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 01:29 Palmar wrote:On December 01 2011 01:08 chaoser wrote:
plays bad with shitty reads that caused chaos, blames others for playing bad thus causing your shitty reads.
that's a meme right?
Yawn. Not meta, just not optimal play. I expect some townies to play optimally. Anyway, it is irrelevant, your alignment was not of any big concern that game because you had no chance of joining that town group if you aligned yourself. I'm not blaming you, I specifically said that I had much to improve upon, that doesn't mean I can't point out things that went wrong. You made yourself a target on day 1. That's always an issue. You do realize that any definition of "optimal" is flawed because there's no way to measure that right? Not to mention, at any point in time, to expect people to play optimally is inherently flawed due to outside world factors. If you mean everyone should play in one specific manner that you consider optimal than I'd rather not play mafia anymore cause that's just silly. Coag and kenpachi should clearly just stop playing if people are going to lynch them straight up day 1 cause they are no where close to "optimal" play even though they're boss at not only catching mafia but shooting the shit out of them the meme was aimed at WBG btw. The way you both approached day 1 was so flawed with the tunneling and playing solely based on some misconceived notion about my "meta", not to mention the excessive tunneling on me. I was waiting and waiting for you guys to be like ok, I'm tunneling, I need to reassess and you guys never did it, which was ridiculous. You need two people to dance that tango on day 1/2 and you and WBG directly contributed to that chaos by tunneling. So don't go around saying people played bad and caused chaos and fucked up your reads when you were the one playing horribly and played an equal part in causing said chaos (addressed to WBG, obviously)
Arguing this is pointless.
Your number one responsibility is to establish your innocence. If you become in danger of getting lynched at any point in the game, you're the problem.
I fuck up as town too.
See, I almost never get lynched as town. I have twice in like 14 games or something been lynched as town, once because I was completely new and thought claiming third party was a good play, and once in a weird situation I don't want to talk about as that game is in process.
If everyone who played town, played in a way that they don't get lynched, then town would win all the time.
And I don't expect Kenpachi and Coagulation to play optimally or logically or well. I hate playing with them and I would have no problem with killing them night 1 in all games I play. I heard you were good, so I expected good play from you.
Look at Tyrran, everyone was 100% sure he was town night one. That was brilliant play. WBG and I deduced each other's alignments really fast and started forming a circle.
Problem is, early reads are often wrong. I have no issues with people giving me a hard time night 1, because I know 90% of he time it's not like it's going to get me lynched.
You had to sub out, which was unfortunate, I look forward to playing with you again, because if you had kept up your play you'd have ended up on the right side. MrZentor didn't really do anything in the game after you left, so his lynch was almost policy.
Expect wrong reads, I could well have been mafia trying to push a mislynch, just make sure you cannot in any possible way get lynched, and it's not a problem at all.
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On December 01 2011 02:15 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 01:29 Palmar wrote:On December 01 2011 01:08 chaoser wrote:
plays bad with shitty reads that caused chaos, blames others for playing bad thus causing your shitty reads.
that's a meme right?
Yawn. Not meta, just not optimal play. I expect some townies to play optimally. Anyway, it is irrelevant, your alignment was not of any big concern that game because you had no chance of joining that town group if you aligned yourself. I'm not blaming you, I specifically said that I had much to improve upon, that doesn't mean I can't point out things that went wrong. You made yourself a target on day 1. That's always an issue. You do realize that any definition of "optimal" is flawed because there's no way to measure that right? Not to mention, at any point in time, to expect people to play optimally is inherently flawed due to outside world factors. If you mean everyone should play in one specific manner that you consider optimal than I'd rather not play mafia anymore cause that's just silly. Coag and kenpachi should clearly just stop playing if people are going to lynch them straight up day 1 cause they are no where close to "optimal" play even though they're boss at not only catching mafia but shooting the shit out of them the meme was aimed at WBG btw. The way you both approached day 1 was so flawed with the tunneling and playing solely based on some misconceived notion about my "meta", not to mention the excessive tunneling on me. I was waiting and waiting for you guys to be like ok, I'm tunneling, I need to reassess and you guys never did it, which was ridiculous. You need two people to dance that tango on day 1/2 and you and WBG directly contributed to that chaos by tunneling. So don't go around saying people played bad and caused chaos and fucked up your reads when you were the one playing horribly and played an equal part in causing said chaos (addressed to WBG, obviously)
Don't spout shit chaoser, you're the one who made less sense than I did and you're also the one who was always more in danger of being lynched.
Next time don't try to catch scum by FOSing 5 people at once on day 1 and then admitting you have no case on any of them, cause that's moronic.
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I've never been lynched as Town!
Or scum!
Curu #1
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On December 01 2011 03:30 Curu wrote:
I've never been lynched as Town!
Or scum!
Curu #1
That's just a sign you havn't played enough.
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On December 01 2011 03:45 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 03:30 Curu wrote:
I've never been lynched as Town!
Or scum!
Curu #1 That's just a sign you havn't played enough.
LOL
Curu is one of the best players on these forums.
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I suck at mafia. 
The only time I ever did what might be considered well was when I was scum and had teammates directing my actions.
Although I'm willing to blame excessive business for part of the inactivity portion of my suck in this game.
I think I'm going to take a break from mafia or only join smaller games until I know for sure I can commit the time and effort to pull my own weight.
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I think it's a bit rash to insult my play when I have never played with most of the scum team (coagulations not included). I rely pretty heavily on interactions in mafia games, and interacting with Palmar or WBG is like trying to kiss a furnace. I think you two need to lighten up. You can catch scum without spraying mace at everyone who tries to approach you.
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On December 01 2011 03:55 Lemonwalrus wrote:I suck at mafia. The only time I ever did what might be considered well was when I was scum and had teammates directing my actions. Although I'm willing to blame excessive business for part of the inactivity portion of my suck in this game. I think I'm going to take a break from mafia or only join smaller games until I know for sure I can commit the time and effort to pull my own weight.
I don't know... you seem to be capable of posting reasonably when you put your mind to it.
I think more activity, and more active discussion with players would help you a lot. Despite me complaining about people doing incorrect plays, that simply means there is room for improvement. No one in this game has failed as colossally as I did when I started playing.
Try to bounce ideas off other players when you're playing. Throw something out there, and ask for feedback. That's one of the best ways to improve and it gives other a read on your alignment,
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On December 01 2011 04:02 bumatlarge wrote:
I think it's a bit rash to insult my play when I have never played with most of the scum team (coagulations not included). I rely pretty heavily on interactions in mafia games, and interacting with Palmar or WBG is like trying to kiss a furnace. I think you two need to lighten up. You can catch scum without spraying mace at everyone who tries to approach you.
you were fine.
However, you have to admit it's rather frustrating when, of the 5 most anti-town players of the game, I'd put 4 townies in there.
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On December 01 2011 04:06 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:02 bumatlarge wrote:
I think it's a bit rash to insult my play when I have never played with most of the scum team (coagulations not included). I rely pretty heavily on interactions in mafia games, and interacting with Palmar or WBG is like trying to kiss a furnace. I think you two need to lighten up. You can catch scum without spraying mace at everyone who tries to approach you. you were fine. However, you have to admit it's rather frustrating when, of the 5 most anti-town players of the game, I'd put 4 townies in there.
I do admit that. I think winning in mafia for me is more of a side-goal. If I see an easy victory route that won't lead to an exciting game I don't take it. It's not like I'm not playng to my win condition, it's more like I'm not keeping track of how many games I win and lose, so taking it easy while still taking chances keeps the game fun for me. And I've been playing the game a long time, so I figure I got some method down.
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Anti-town?
Top anti-town moves:
In third place, Lanaia's anti-vote on Kenpachi for causing a fuckload of chaos and helping us achieve our first lynch.
In second place, Lemonwalrus not checking DCLXVI, which would very well have costed us scum the game.
In first place, Palmar mass-claim call, which basically gave us free kills LOL
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Don't spout shit chaoser, you're the one who made less sense than I did and you're also the one who was always more in danger of being lynched.
Next time don't try to catch scum by FOSing 5 people at once on day 1 and then admitting you have no case on any of them, cause that's moronic.
lol. sure. did you just indirectly admit that you made no sense?
Pretty sure "FOS 3 people day 1" was what I did and not "FOS 5 people" in the beginning until you and palmar decided to tunnel me for no reason. Not to mention you also voted for 3-4 people day 1 with most of the cases being "he's playing shitty". My cases were way better than your cases at least. Stop blaming other peopel for your shitty play and go fuck a whale kthanks.
shape up your pretentious/elitist/I am better/holier than thou attitude before playing again kk?
kindly go take your head out your ass and go win a few more games before acting like you're "da shit"
it's like playing with a no-talent version of ace, no thanks
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On December 01 2011 04:41 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +Don't spout shit chaoser, you're the one who made less sense than I did and you're also the one who was always more in danger of being lynched.
Next time don't try to catch scum by FOSing 5 people at once on day 1 and then admitting you have no case on any of them, cause that's moronic. lol. sure. did you just indirectly admit that you made no sense? Pretty sure "FOS 3 people day 1" was what I did and not "FOS 5 people" in the beginning until you and palmar decided to tunnel me for no reason. Not to mention you also voted for 3-4 people day 1 with most of the cases being "he's playing shitty". My cases were way better than your cases at least. Stop blaming other peopel for your shitty play and go fuck a whale kthanks. shape up your pretentious/elitist/I am better/holier than thou attitude before playing again kk? kindly go take your head out your ass and go win a few more games before acting like you're "da shit" it's like playing with a no-talent version of ace, no thanks
lol chaoser
this is almost not worth responding to. You know very well that you were in the wrong day 1, Palmar and I are not so stupid as to both find you suspicious just because we're both idiots.
We have similar playstyles, but we're not that stupid. You play anti-town, you get lynched. There's a reason neither Palmar nor I ever faced serious threat of lynch, while you did.
Bum didn't play particularly anti-town either, he was just lazy. That's why he was never in threat of being lynched either.
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On December 01 2011 05:06 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 04:41 chaoser wrote:Don't spout shit chaoser, you're the one who made less sense than I did and you're also the one who was always more in danger of being lynched.
Next time don't try to catch scum by FOSing 5 people at once on day 1 and then admitting you have no case on any of them, cause that's moronic. lol. sure. did you just indirectly admit that you made no sense? Pretty sure "FOS 3 people day 1" was what I did and not "FOS 5 people" in the beginning until you and palmar decided to tunnel me for no reason. Not to mention you also voted for 3-4 people day 1 with most of the cases being "he's playing shitty". My cases were way better than your cases at least. Stop blaming other peopel for your shitty play and go fuck a whale kthanks. shape up your pretentious/elitist/I am better/holier than thou attitude before playing again kk? kindly go take your head out your ass and go win a few more games before acting like you're "da shit" it's like playing with a no-talent version of ace, no thanks lol chaoser this is almost not worth responding to. You know very well that you were in the wrong day 1, Palmar and I are not so stupid as to both find you suspicious just because we're both idiots. We have similar playstyles, but we're not that stupid. You play anti-town, you get lynched. There's a reason neither Palmar nor I ever faced serious threat of lynch, while you did. Bum didn't play particularly anti-town either, he was just lazy. That's why he was never in threat of being lynched either.
Fun fact, Palmar had more town votes on him than Chaoser did at the end of day 1 and at the end of day 2.
But how about we stop finger pointing and name-calling and each person just accepts the loss as their own fault and focuses on improving their own play? Sound good? Sounds good.
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We have similar playstyles, but we're not that stupid. You play anti-town, you get lynched. There's a reason neither Palmar nor I ever faced serious threat of lynch, while you did.
lol, i never got lynched? I doubt you could have gotten me lynched had I not gotten sick. I don't think you've EVER gotten me lynched. I also haven't been day 1 lynched since forever. And I'm pretty sure I've carried more games than you have. Go read some mafia history kkk? And you didn't address the part about the elitist/i am better/holier than thou attitude I see.
I'd add some more vitriol but I wouldn't want to mean so I'll just politely ask you to go headbutt a bullet and be done with it.
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On December 01 2011 05:20 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +We have similar playstyles, but we're not that stupid. You play anti-town, you get lynched. There's a reason neither Palmar nor I ever faced serious threat of lynch, while you did. lol, i never got lynched? I doubt you could have gotten me lynched had I not gotten sick. I don't think you've EVER gotten me lynched. I also haven't been day 1 lynched since forever. And I'm pretty sure I've carried more games than you have. Go read some mafia history kkk? And you didn't address the part about the elitist/i am better/holier than thou attitude I see. I'd add some more vitriol but I wouldn't want to mean so I'll just politely ask you to go headbutt a bullet and be done with it.
just not gonna bother...
ignore this
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On December 01 2011 05:20 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +We have similar playstyles, but we're not that stupid. You play anti-town, you get lynched. There's a reason neither Palmar nor I ever faced serious threat of lynch, while you did. lol, i never got lynched? I doubt you could have gotten me lynched had I not gotten sick. I don't think you've EVER gotten me lynched. I also haven't been day 1 lynched since forever. And I'm pretty sure I've carried more games than you have. Go read some mafia history kkk? And you didn't address the part about the elitist/i am better/holier than thou attitude I see. I'd add some more vitriol but I wouldn't want to mean so I'll just politely ask you to go headbutt a bullet and be done with it.
I agree.
Your reactions to the pressure on day1/night1 were enough to carry your replacement through to like day 4 or something, and he did nothing to either help town or try to establish your innocence.
I actually think you having to leave was one of the turning point where town started losing the game. You were always going to prove yourself innocent. The fact you didn't get close to dying despite pressure is testament of your good play. The only thing I'm proud of myself this game is the fact that despite LSB's pressure I was never a serious lynch candidate. And I guess my prplhz = town analysis was pretty solid too.
And yeah, I'll take full responsibility now that I read the OP and see there is a warning against claiming. I still think it's a retarded game mechanic, but it's my fault not reading that carefully enough. Massclaiming should be a viable tactic for town. I think it's almost always bad to do it anyway.
@Bumatlarge. No one is complaining about your scumhunting. You didn't do worse than most of us anyway, probably better. The only complaint I have about your play is I feel you didn't post actively and transparently enough for everyone to get a read on you. The reason it's easy to get a read on people like syllo/sandroba/bugs/mig is that those people will always engage the thread when they're town, share their views, and thus you can deduce their alignment based on their actions. I felt like you were sitting back for this game, which made it much harder to read you. It's not bad play on your part, it's just inconvenient for fellow townies.
I hope I'm not coming across as a douche, I think we can have a conversation about the game without resorting to insults against each other.
I am definitely not guilt free in this game. Pushing for Forumite dead was dumb. Giving Cyber_Cheese a free pass when his play was terrible for town was even dumber, and most of all, not properly reading the OP and assuming the game wasn't rigged was super-dumb. It was all in all my worst town performance since the original PTP.
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np palmar, everyone did badly. Or else town wouldn't have lost. That's something that I'm sure everyone can admit. But when WBG goes around saying "omg omg you're all so bad! that's why I made bad reads/calls/votes!" and indirectly implies that he was in no way a part of that failure, or that his bad play is somehow excused is when I call bullshit on that.
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On December 01 2011 05:51 chaoser wrote:
np palmar, everyone did badly. Or else town wouldn't have lost. That's something that I'm sure everyone can admit. But when WBG goes around saying "omg omg you're all so bad! that's why I made bad reads/calls/votes!" and indirectly implies that he was in no way a part of that failure, or that his bad play is somehow excused is when I call bullshit on that.
of course I was part of the failure. I had bad reads too.
However, how the hell are you going to make correct reads if scum aren't the most anti-town players?
You can't seriously expect anyone to be able to make correct reads when people are PURPOSELY being hard to read.
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BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT
WOOHOO
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EPT
