This is the situation we faced this game:

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Follow_the_Cop

it's really only breakable with a roleblocker. I wouldn't call the setup imbalanced if I hadn't experienced it myself (I'm not blaming anyone, I don't blame Palmar, I'm just saying that in the future this needs to be changed)

IMO mafia should never be punished for forcing a roleclaim. People claiming and then loling to victory is just crazy stupid IMO. This game is about analysis, not dumb luck.

Palmar

Iceland22634 Posts

November 09 2011 22:04 GMT

#1422

Fast endgame:

[image loading]

After seeing their partners Wherebugsgo and Radfield killed by crazy couples, Kurumi and his lover RebirthOfLeGenD decided to take their own life in one swift motion.

And thus a couple of couples died.

Incidentally, they were scum.

GG, town wins!

Here's the excel sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aolx7msuf_IvdHpfWEdoQXMwTXRVTENtdU0yQ2lleFE&hl=en_US#gid=0

Enjoy!

Kurumi

Poland6130 Posts

November 09 2011 22:06 GMT

#1423

Thanks Palmar and OriginalName, sorry for not being as active as I should, but I think it wasn't that bad

GMarshal

United States22154 Posts

November 09 2011 22:06 GMT

#1424

On November 10 2011 07:04 wherebugsgo wrote:
This is the situation we faced this game:

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Follow_the_Cop

it's really only breakable with a roleblocker. I wouldn't call the setup imbalanced if I hadn't experienced it myself (I'm not blaming anyone, I don't blame Palmar, I'm just saying that in the future this needs to be changed)

IMO mafia should never be punished for forcing a roleclaim. People claiming and then loling to victory is just crazy stupid IMO. This game is about analysis, not dumb luck.

That is why I argued for either a roleblocker/framer or a miller in the pregame, DT is just too powerful without it, especially if there is a high probability of protection roles being present.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

November 09 2011 22:07 GMT

#1425

also planning shit is impossible when all 3 of your scumbuddies are gone.

redFF

United States3910 Posts

November 09 2011 22:07 GMT

#1426

honestly wbg we weren't even a full cop. the lynch was between you and s&g and you lost.

[image loading]

Curu

Canada2817 Posts

November 09 2011 22:08 GMT

#1427

Game would have been fine IMO if the Parity Cop + Doctor option wasn't there (and incidentally it was the one chosen). Jailkeeper + Cop would have been fun.

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

November 09 2011 22:09 GMT

#1428

On November 10 2011 07:06 GMarshal wrote:

Show nested quote +

That is why I argued for either a roleblocker/framer or a miller in the pregame, DT is just too powerful without it, especially if there is a high probability of protection roles being present.

roleblocker would've balanced the setup, IMO.

I personally just hate roleclaims. If I ever host a game I will probably punish roleclaimers very hard.

TL towns tend to believe any role claim fed to them, but that's a big problem when generally only townies gain from roleclaims.

Very rarely do scum roleclaims actually gain scum anything. Sometimes you see them do something but more often than not mafia only really gain from counterclaiming.

Counterclaiming on day 1 this game would've taken balls, but we would've been dead day 2 and that wouldn't have been good.

deconduo

Ireland4122 Posts

November 09 2011 22:09 GMT

#1429

Next time listen to us ok?

kitaman27

United States9245 Posts

November 09 2011 22:09 GMT

#1430

Thanks for hosting Palmar and ON!

supersoft

Germany3729 Posts

November 09 2011 22:10 GMT

#1431

On November 10 2011 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
also planning shit is impossible when all 3 of your scumbuddies are gone.

true. You didn't play bad at all. Really. I don't know if the setup was bad, but rad and RoL being afk is pretty bad.
if chaoser were scum instead of kuru, or someone else who is active, you may have had the chance to do something

wherebugsgo

Japan10647 Posts

November 09 2011 22:10 GMT

#1432

On November 10 2011 07:07 redFF wrote:
honestly wbg we weren't even a full cop. the lynch was between you and s&g and you lost.

[image loading]

yeah, I lost.

I can tell you for a fact I'm not ashamed of my loss. I don't particularly care, particularly as I wouldn't have done anything differently if I was put in the same exact situation a second time.

Kurumi

Poland6130 Posts

November 09 2011 22:12 GMT

#1433

Well, I think this will be again last game in a while because I am tired of being called useless.

redFF

United States3910 Posts

November 09 2011 22:13 GMT

#1434

On November 10 2011 07:12 Kurumi wrote:
Well, I think this will be again last game in a while because I am tired of being called useless.

Palmar

Iceland22634 Posts

November 09 2011 22:13 GMT

#1435

Follow the cop is not an issue with a parity cop (who essentially can only have one real result at the start of day 3) in a 7 player game with a role cop.

What lost you the game was your (the mafia team's) inability to argue your way out of a lynch on day 3, or unwillingness to bus a partner to secure the win in lylo tomorrow.

The reason I say follow the cop is not an issue this game is the following.

Day 3 is the FIRST day a parity cop can have reliable results.

Before mafia sends in their night 2 kill, they have the identity of 4 people in the game known, the 2 lynches (day 1 and 2), the night kill on n1, and the rolecheck on n1. With all this information, it's only reasonable to think scum might be able to deduce who the doctor is by night 2, and reliably kill him, or if they haven't found a doc, take a shot on the cop.

Yes, the setup I rolled was the most town favoured one of the bunch, but it's still very, very winnable for scum. Things were going pretty well.

Just imagine in a different world where Kurumi and RoL hadn't been repeatedly defended by WBG/Rad, they would've stepped up their game today, bussed WBG/Rad, then killed the parity cops during the night. All that leaves is trying to get GM hanged which was VERY attainable seeing as S&G who would've gotten confirmed in the process were already leaning scum on GM.

I say mafia gave up way too early, and was in general lazy, with only one player actively playing the game.

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

November 09 2011 22:13 GMT

#1436

KURUMI WBG GRUDGEMATCH

1 ON 1 MAFIA BOTH DAYVIGS

kitaman27

United States9245 Posts

November 09 2011 22:14 GMT

#1437

I think super/grey did a real good job of establishing themeslves as town from the start. If they hadn't, the decision would have been much tougher. The main reason we checked Rad/bugs night 1 was because of Radfield's attempt to sway our check to a team we thought we were capable of lynching day 2.