Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
The crutch of confirmed innocents and power roles carries the day! I'm sure there is criticism to be made for the way me and Mig played, but given the info we had there were only so many scum candidates possible. Playing heavily in the thread would have meant heaping proper suspicion on Hiro(who i trusted to be dreamflower), not outing that me and mig were confirming people, not outting WBG and his role(and why we trusted him), and being very careful about several other things. We basically felt we had things solved by Night 2, though we were wrong when Foolish and Jimbo flipped town, as we felt both would flip scum. That meant recalibrating who was scum, but it was still just a matter of working down the list.
This game was all about PMs and real-time chat. Honestly, at this point I feel chat like Skype/IRC are much much more powerful for town than PMs, and PMs are already a huge advantage for town. Several players I was fairly convinced were town based on my interactions in skype.
Was I fooled by Sandro? Absolutely. But I talked very little with Sandro after day 1, and certainly didn't trust him enough to give him the important information. He knew the roles of me/mig/syllo, but that was pretty much it. Simply from the kills that York chose you can see he was mainly in the dark as he never knew Dreamflower, CPR Doc, bodyguards, etc. Also, my conversations with Sandroba went down precipitously as the game went on, Day 0 we talked alot, but by Day 2/Night 2 we were basically not talking at all. Honestly Sandro, I think you could have gleaned a lot more info from me had you pushed for it.
I don't really think I'm very good at PM games though, as I am far too trusting out-of-thread and far too willing to trust roleclaims. For instance Sandro got mad at me Day 1 for not following his plan, yet I didn't even realize till days later that Sandro did not follow his plan either, and that his claim of going for Rockstar didn't make sense at all(not to mention he knew it was a safe claim, given he was the rockstar). By the time I figured this out, Sandro was basically already narrowed down to being scum, so it didn't matter.
Here's how things played out in general from my perspective.
Day 0 I was fairly convinced Sandro was town. Originally I thought he looked pretty scummy, just based on the brevity of his plan in-thread. After talking with him though, I felt he looked quite town and I felt his plan would actually work pretty well. Ironic that he clashed with another scum player in his role selection(GF). Though it seemed like day -1 and day 0 were about plans etc, it was really about establishing activity levels and feeling players out.
Day 1 was all about pushing for mayor for me. I had gotten Bullet Bill, and knew I could be a powerful force if elected. My original thought was that I could investigate my bodyguards(who should be vanilla) and if they had a gun then they were certainly scum. Turned out that strat was never necessary, but it was my original thought(though killing ones own BGs is somewhat counter-productive)
I sent over 100 PMs this game, and on Day 1 I was pushing every single player I knew to vote for me. Sandroba, Mig and Syllo were all pushing for Mig to be elected, and by the time I got started he was already ahead. I knew if I sat back and just waited I could very well not get elected. So I got busy with direct PMs: Kitaman, Foolishness, Meapak, Scamp, Deconduo, prplhz, Node, Jimbo, Bumatlarge, as well as discussions with Heist, Hiro and Errandor who all came to me. Of the players I PMed, 6 of 9 were scum, but that didn't really matter. If I gave them a good reason to vote for me, and scum hate going against a good reason. Eventually 8 of the 13 players voting for me were scum 
I was working for the last 11 of 12 hours of Day 1, so by the time I got home I had very little time to figure out who to lynch. Chaoser was the absolute consensus at that point, as basically every single player i talked to wanted him lynched. With him claiming both medic and busy IRL(and I always like to give busy IRL people a second chance) he was basically off the table in my eyes. If he really was a medic, scum would likely shoot him anyways.
So this left me grasping for a new lynch. I had to find a general consensus, since if I didn't lynch Chaoser and instead hit a townie I was going to lose a lot of credibility. I had about 5 convos going at once and it eventually settled on being Heist or Node. Originally I sent in Heist, but after re-reviewing my PMs with node, I felt he was the better option. I rechecked all my ongoing skype convos, and 4 out of 5 were good with node(only chaoser wanted heist).
Here is the PM convo, starting at the bottom:
+ Show Spoiler +Well, Meapak claimed his role in the thread. So presumably the information is there for those looking
Mig, Syllo and Sandro are doing an extremely poor job of creating thread presence. I posted my thoughts on them in the thread, and have had extensive conversations with Sandro and Mig, though mostly Sandro.
In fact, Sandro would be my strongest town read right now, but he is doing a poor job explaining himself in thread. He's taking an approach of "how could you townies be so dumb as to think i am scum", which is obviously a bad approach. That being said, he is one of the people i would LEAST like to see killed.
Right now both Chaoser and Wiggles seem a little off to me. Neither are making a very strong show of actually wanting mayor. After Jimbo posted his big posts today, I felt fairly certain that he was scum, given the way he backpedalled off of both me and sandro. Casting suspicion on me and then apologizing, building a case against Sandro(and running on a platform of lynch sandro) and then claiming his intent was not to paint Sandro as scum.....?
I also do not trust meapak, which is part of the reason I wanted to have him make a Police Radio. It is a known quantity, and can't be exploited or hide his scum team. He seems to be uninterested in the Police Radio, and is trying to brainstorm other possibilities.
Keep on thinking of good inventions. I plan on bullying meapak into creating whatever invention is most fittingly pro-town, as I simply don't trust him fully right now.
Original Message From Node:
First off, I was not aware that Meapak was Inventor. You may wish to be careful with that information in the future.
I'm thinking either yourself or Jimbo are going to get my mayor vote. I'm iffy on the whole Mig / syllo / whoever else is somehow "confirmed innocent" (because, well, they aren't) -- I'd rather vote for the people that actually look to have their head on straight in-thread. I'm pretty supportive of the "lynch sandroba" platform, considering that his retorts towards various accusations have ranged from ad-hominem to spouting "his words are being distorted" as a first line of defense.
In your opinion, do any of the mayoral candidates look particularly scummy?
The police radio is pretty damn good, but I'd consider holding on to it until we have a better idea of the number of detectives out there. A good invention fits the circumstances -- a good inventor won't just make the "most OP" item, but come up with whatever helps the town the most at the time. When I invented it, it served more than one purpose. In addition to showing everyone the DT checks, it confirmed that a few people weren't lying about their roles (most notably GM about being the vote checker). At the time, people were saying Inventor should just make bulletproof vests and be done with it. Fuck that shit.
However, I'm not sure what a "better" invention would be right now. Information is definitely key -- maybe something that reveals every role that got taken, so we know what to look out for? It could also semi-confirm any early roleclaims. I will definitely think on it some more.
I'm actually kind of worried about confirming townies with the police radio. With its incarnation in PYP:I, it broadcasted everything in-thread. I worry that so early in the game, it would serve to give the mafia good targets more than anything else. Of course, I'm assuming that our DTs mainly check townies. I dunno, I just think it could have negative consequences at this point.
Hide nested quote -
Original Message From Radfield:
What are your thoughts on the mayor race? Who are you considering voting for?
I could use your support, as I think it is key I gain the protection of the elected roles. I also intend on pressuring Meapak into inventing a police radio for tomorrow, as I think it is the single best invention we can get. Anything which can confirm townies en masse is huge for us.
I'd like you to rack your brain though, and see if you can figure out an invention that would work even better in this particular set-up.
The main things that tipped me here were a) He was not reading the thread very carefully b)He spent more time talking about inventions then the game c) He never finds a good invention, only naysays the Police Radio d) He never responded to me, and never thought up a good invention.
I was most certainly NOT sure Node was scum, and any case I had against him was flimsy at best. However he was the better pick than Heist, and town got extremely lucky that he was America. In one fell swoop, we removed America from scum, and handed it to town(Scamp). Massive break for town.
Prp was also on the table for a while, but at some point Hiro roleclaimed to me which meant prp was either extremely lucky, or had actually gone for Dreamflower. No chance I was lynching a player who had gone for dreamflower.
Night 1 Hiro had contacted me and roleclaimed Dreamflower to me, and I kept that information secret. Since Jimbo had confirmed Chaoser as scum, I spent most of the day chatting with Chaoser trying to glean his thoughts. With 2 town KP known, and two town DTs known, me and Mig were able to organize extremely effectively. I didn't know the CPR doc, and Mig didn't know dreamflower, and that was the way we wanted it.
End result was two dead scum(Chaoser and Cheese), one scum caught(Meapak), and one confirmed town power role(Scamp).
Day 2 After the Day post(3 dead scum) town was in a great position. Once Ken outted Deconduo, and he was nuked, we were in an amazing position, because I still had the Meapak red result. We felt the best way was to try and get the thread going, and generate some discussion, as opposed to just outting the DT check. Our thought was that scum would absolutely not want to lynch Meapak, and would turn to another player like WBG or Sandro instead.
As it turns out we DID catch someone trying to do this(prplhz), but I was too caught up in him being confirmed dreamflower(or really lucky) to notice it. The other scum basically avoided the bait, but so be it. At this point everyone was basically sure Wiggles was scum, but we had Meapak so there was no rush.
By the end of Day 2, with 6 scum dead, America/CPR/DF/BB/DT all in town hands, we were feeling pretty untouchable. This was my list of scum at that point:
Wiggles, Jimbo, Foolish, Supersoft, Jacuzzi, Sinani
Then: Heist, Kenpachi, WBG, Sandroba
Then the dreamflowers: prplhz, Greymist, Errandor
Night 2Heist had claimed Parity Cop at this point, so the thought was to have Mig check heist, and heist check Jacuzzi. I would check Jimbo, and we would shoot Wiggles(certainly scum) and Foolish(very likely scum).
There were several reasons I thought Foolish was scum.
*His general inactivity from my point of view. He was claiming he was very active, yet from what I could tell, and the players I spoke with, he was actually doing very little. Of course this is because he was working in scum circles, and I was working in town circles.
*His mayoral vote was very suspicious. On one hand he was telling several players he thought I was likely town, yet on the other hand he was telling different players that it was essential I not get elected. This was part of his response to me asking him why he was pushing Greymist:
Why is "giving something to the town" so important? Are you still acting like this is any other game of mafia? The elected positions are not about finding someone who is not scum, and they are not about finding someone who will scum hunt the best.
*Most of my suspicion however came from direct dealing with him however. Foolish kept dripping me tidbits of mostly unimportant info, or info I already knew, and claiming to other players to 'ask Radfield how helpful he was being'. It seemed he was trying to pump me for information, while giving me what I felt was fairly irrelevant or already known info.
-He wanted to know how Cheese died(Asking about townside KP in my eyes. Not to mention I already suspected Foolish of being Lancaster, so in my mind this was asking how his buddy died.)
-He told me Tudors had killed Kitaman(Something that was irrelevant to me as I already assumed one of the other scum teams had killed him. This actually made me more suspicious as I couldn't see why a townie would really care which scum killed a different scum, so why did he think it was important i knew?)
-Asked me about Hiro's alignment, specifically not his role, just alignment.(Fishing for DF in my eyes. I already knew that by process of elimination, Dreamflower could only possibly be one of a few players, since prp had publicly claimed he went for DF. Foolish seemed like he was trying to make it look like an innocent question by stressing only alignment, when in fact a simple answer from me would confirm him as dreamflower)
- Told me Deconduo was 100% Tudor scum. (Keep in mind this is AFTER Kenpachi had already posted this in the thread, so I was honestly a bit confused as to why Foolish thought he was even being helpful with this tidbit. However it did show me Foolish wasn't properly reading the thread, since he didn't know KP had revealed Decons family, nor did he even realize NKVD could do this)
These were pretty much the four items we discussed, and all four made me think Foolish was scum, though I see now that from his point of view they wouldn't have seemed so scummy. Palmar had also had a convo in which it seemed Foolish had basically claimed scum:http://pastebin.com/jNR7xVau
In fact they were both pretty much fishing each other....
This is the PM I recieved from Foolish the night he was killed:
Since you're not on skype I'll give you some of what I've found out so far. It wasn't my intention to give this to you so late in the night.
supersoft is a Tudor. I say this with a 100% probability attached. The remaining Tudor is of the people who picked 1 as their first number (heist, Erandorr, Jaccuzi, sinani, and myself, to be scientifically correct). Also Jimbo is getting framed tonight.
This was supposed to be the big relevation of information he was going to give me, in case he was killed. Supersoft was basically already 90% for sure scum to me given that he had claimed hider, and given his in-thread actions, and more importantly given the list. He also mentions the remaining Tudor is one of 5 players..... so big deal. Lastly is the mention of a framer. At this point, given the confirm-able roles in the game, the framer could only be an extremely select few people. The fact that he could know of the existence of a framer, and who that framer was targetting seemed like something only scum could know. At this point I was sure he was just feeding me bullshit, and trying to show how 'helpful' he was. I was fairly convinced he was scum.
My suspicions of Jimbo were far less certain. By his in-thread actions and talking with him in PMs he seemed town, however he had a couple strikes against him:
*A confirmed scum dropped inventor to him.
*He did not make an invention Night 1
When I spoke to him on Night 2, I told him it was essential for him to give the invention to me or Mig, and that it was essential he give us a dayvig shot. My reasoning was that we did not need investigative inventions, since we already had scum quite narrowed down. What we needed was KP to eliminate them. A dayvig would have given us that ability, as well as hold us accountable at the same time since it is entirely public knowledge. For me or mig to abuse it would have been very difficult if one of us was scum and the other was not. Also, giving an invention to any other player ran the risk of that player being shot, whereas Me and Mig were assured protection.
Jimbo refused, and I told him point blank that I would lynch him the next day if he did not comply. With that he kinda agreed, but then came back 5 minutes later and said Protact would not allow a dayvig bullet as an invention, because it was 'too public'. I thought this smelled like BS, so I PMed protact asking if a nuke was an acceptable invention. Protact said yes, so I pushed Jimbo to invent a nuke, telling him Protact would accept it. At this point he did an about face, and basically told me that being so bossy was no way to get compliance. To me this seemed like a complete about face: First he was ok with a dayvig but then it wasn't allowed, the moment I found him an alternative he changed his tune. Eventually he agreed to a nuke, but refused to give it me or Mig.
At this point I was sure he was scum, as he was acting so illogically in regards to his invention. Once Bill Murray was invented, it was obvious to me that he was not pro-town, as no pro-town player would make something like that.
Day 3 Several things contributed to the added confusion regarding House Chezinu, and the thought that Jimbo/Foolish were scum in disguise.
Obviously the main one for me was that I felt Jimbo/foolish WERE scum, and that if they weren't my spreadsheet couldn't fit 5 more scum. However, I also received my Bullet Bill check 12 hours late, when everyone else got their checks back right away. The OP was also not updated to show how many players were left on each team. These two things made it feel like the mods agreed to let Jimbo/Foolish flip random, but not quite sure how to approach the ramifications of that decision.
Once Jimbo and Foolish were flipped as town, we could basically narrow down the options:
Assuming no framer:
Mig/Radfield/WBG had all killed or participating directly in killing members of each team
Heist, Scamp, Jacuzzi had all been checked
Prp, Greymist, Errandor all went for dreamflower
Hiro was confirmed dreamflower, and had followed his shots.
Sandro, Kenpachi had nothing confirming them but gut reads
Supersoft and Sinani were almost surely scum by process of elimination, as it would be very difficult to keep finding scum among the confirmed players.
A Framer could have messed things up, but Framer was very unlikely to be at the bottom of the draft list. It's possibly Jacuzzi was the Framer and framed Heist, and Heist faked his parity cop check, but unlikely .
Night 3Once Super and Sinani both flipped scum, we were in the clear. We had 3 investigations and 2 KP, so that was pretty much GG even if only one had flipped scum.
Just like PYPInsane, this game was almost over by the time role selections and mayor picks were done. Scum again avoided many of the best scum roles, either for fear of rolechecks, or fear of overlapping. After Night 1 flipped, and certainly by the time I revealed Meapak had been checked, scum needed to gamble and team up. If they just went their own way, they would surely be torn apart by town, which is exactly what happened. The Night 2 kills overlapped on Syllo(vanilla) and took out Jimbo, a player likely to be lynched.
If they had teamed up and co-operated, town still loses an all out KP race at that point. Co-ordinate their shots to kill Scamp and Bugs, and begin to eliminate Dreamflower and Bodyguard candidates. Eventually they would have to fight amongst each other again, but they needed to severely cripple town first.
Town:
Jimbo - Inventor
Mig - Detective
WBG - CPR Doc
Scamp - Copycat
Syllo - Vanilla
Radfield - Bullet Bill
Hiro - Dreamflower
Dropbear - Bomber Man
Bum - Vanilla
Arctocod - Ace
Jackal - Ackbar
Greymist - Vanilla
Foolishness - Vanilla
Heist - Parity Cop
Erandorr - Vanilla
Jacuzzi - Vanilla
6 great roles, 4 decent roles, 6 vanilla
Tudor
Meapak - Rockstar
Decon - Bulletproof
Supersoft - Hider
prplhz - Vanilla
All defense all the time. I certainly understand the strategy, but I think with picks 1/4/16/18 they could have done much better. Soooo many good options. Taking something like NRA at #1, Assassin at #4, capitalist/rolecop at #16, etc. I think in this setup defensive roles were good for town, but only so-so for mafia.
Lancaster
Kenpachi - NKVD
Cyber - Godfather
Wiggles - Medic
Chaoser - Pupeteer
Good roles if they hadn't been decimated. I think Kenpachi should have used NKVD to connect with other teams though. Not to buy town cred, especially since two of his team were dead.
York
Sandroba - vanilla
Node - America
Kitaman - Role Swapper
Sinani - Vanilla
2 good roles despite low picking slots
Anyways, great fun this game, though I'll admit we got lazy at the end. Big thanks to all the hosts for putting this on, PYP is so much fun. I'll edit any mistakes i've made later.
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