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On September 29 2011 01:27 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2011 01:18 NotChezinu wrote:On September 29 2011 01:14 jcarlsoniv wrote:On September 29 2011 01:05 NotChezinu wrote:On September 28 2011 23:17 tnkted wrote:
Also, I agree with mig about the Engineer watcher/medic but for different reasons. I think the extra medic is a waste in a game in which 1. we already have a medic and 2. There are only 4.5 kp floating around, only 2.5 of which belong to scum. Don't even THINK about getting the dispenser station. That's just asking for more KP.
Should people who are burned at night claim, so that medic can choose to protect them, or what? that tells mafia where the medic is gonna be, but mafia can just fakeclaim a burn and draw the medic too. I'm uncomfortable with introducing a town mechanic that allows mafia to manipulate the medic that way. You seem to have vaster knowledge than the rest of us mortals. How are you aware of the presence of 4.5 KP? You know the mafia has 2.5kp? The presence of a medic is a certainty? Truly you are wise. Or perhaps foolish, I'll leave that up to observation. Also let the record show that jcarlsoniv is probably mafia, so if I'm on your team jcarlsoniv I would appreciate an informative PM informing me. I am? Interesting. But then...if I were mafia, and you were on my team, wouldn't that also make you mafia? O_o It would, which is why I would appreciate you telling me if I am on your team! I need some outside data before I can observe my role PM! Quantum uncertanty is hard. Oh of course! Silly me, I forgot you were playing Schrodinger's Role. Although I don't think I could help you much. I don't know anything about quantum uncertainty, I'm just a lowly math major!
Quick quantum physics lesson: Schrödinger's cat is a hypothetical cat that was placed in a box... substances were placed in the box that would have a 50/50 chance of killing the cat. Until the box is open, the cat is both alive and dead because no one knows if the substance killed the cat.
This wouldn't apply to NotChezinu's alignment because the host knows what his alignment is.
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On September 28 2011 20:35 Mig wrote:
Ok guys I think that is plenty of trolling so lets actually start playing now.
1) No townies need to fake claim mute. There are virtually guaranteed to be some random townies who are mute to hide any possible snipers we have. So having people fake it is pointless. Along with that the ability to mason is very strong for town and hurts mafia a great deal. Mafia would love to fake claim mute so they didn't have to discuss things with people, don't give them an easy opportunity to do so.
Craplogic.
People fake-claiming Mute does not in any way stop us from using Mason Circles. You can pretend to be Mute and still PM a small number of trusted Town. Claiming just checks one player off the list of possible Vigilantes, but pretending to be Mute leaves the option open, keep Mute or break silence when the opportunity presents itself.
On September 28 2011 20:35 Mig wrote:
2) Engineer invention - The only reasonable choices are 1) (medic) and 3) (watcher). If there is an engineer out there I highly recommend you choose watcher. Multiple recent TL games the town medics have badly fucked up the town by protecting mafia members. Watchers cannot help mafia by watching the wrong person. Along with that watchers actually make mafia less likely to hit the strong townies. Mafia are oftentimes willing to risk medics and hit a good townie because all they lose is a kp if he is saved. But if instead that person is watched the mafia is risking losing one of their members, and it makes it incredibly risky for mafia to ever double stack someone. I had to deal with this as mafia 2 games ago with foolish watchers are a huge bitch for mafia to deal with.
Craplogic.
Did you check what the Engineer does? + Show Spoiler +On September 17 2011 23:20 Kurumi wrote:
BLU Engineer
He is missing his guitar, but his wrench and mind are here. He is now back from Bahamas and ready to aid the BLU team to the victory.
Role Chooser:
Night 1 Engineer decides to build one of the following buildings:
a) Teleport:
Engineer can now save people by placing teleport in their houses. If BLU Scout tracks a person who is teleported it counts as visiting someone. Does not regenerate health from Pyro's fire, but makes Pyro's action fail as it is a KP-type action.
b) Dispenser
Engineer can now refill people's bullets and lives. Refill can't give more bullets or lives than starting amount. When refilling BLU Sniper his first-used bullet is refilled. Engineer and people without additional lives/bullets are not pmed about the visit (so Engineer does not know if he refilled someone)
c) Sentry Gun
Because of newest RED technology Sentry Gun can not kill anymore. Instead, it watches doorsteps. It gives Engineer the result:
X was visited by someone.
X was not visited by anyone.
Every "invention" can be used from N2 and on. Engineer can't build another invention/destroy it/replace it. Roleblocking Engineer makes his inventions fail too.
On September 28 2011 20:35 Mig wrote:
3) Balance - This won't really be applicable right now but in kurumi's last game I know he didn't RNG all the teams/roles completely and he balanced it fairly normally. So looking at the player list the top players would be myself/Curu/Palmar/ingonito/ and probably the smurf. There is around a 0% chance those 5 players are all town and I would say it is very likely 2 of those 5 are mafia and not just mafia but most likely the mafia power roles (GF, RB, etc). This doesn't do us much good ATM but everyone should be watching all of those players closely, especially as people die and there are fewer of them left.
I have no idea what you are saying here, please elaborate.
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United States4714 Posts
Forumite do you know what a watcher does? I am not the one confusing him with a tracker.
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United States4714 Posts
If you are watcher you watch hi profile townies who are likely to be killed. If they die you can see who hit them if someone else visits them and the person doesn't die/claim rb/burn you have a confirmed townie. Please don't call my logic crap when you are clueless.
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palmargard on skype
add me
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Forumite is retarded/scum, tnkted is scum.
Trying to discredit Mig when he thinks watcher can't catch scum LOL
I'm fine with either a Forumite or tnkted lynch today.
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On September 29 2011 02:07 wherebugsgo wrote:
Forumite is retarded/scum, tnkted is scum.
Trying to discredit Mig when he thinks watcher can't catch scum LOL
I'm fine with either a Forumite or tnkted lynch today.
What makes you think tnkted is scum?
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On September 29 2011 01:59 Mig wrote:
If you are watcher you watch hi profile townies who are likely to be killed. If they die you can see who hit them if someone else visits them and the person doesn't die/claim rb/burn you have a confirmed townie. Please don't call my logic crap when you are clueless.
Check the role list, it says there that the Engineers Sentry doesn´t know who visited, just if someone visited that person.
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On September 28 2011 23:17 tnkted wrote:
Should people who are burned at night claim, so that medic can choose to protect them, or what? that tells mafia where the medic is gonna be, but mafia can just fakeclaim a burn and draw the medic too. I'm uncomfortable with introducing a town mechanic that allows mafia to manipulate the medic that way.
A is burned by the Red Pyro, what to do?
If the Medic helps A, then he doesn´t die to the next Pyro visit, A is saved, although two others die instead, tough. Barring Vet hits, 2 guaranteed deaths.
If the Medic doesn´t help A, then A dies to a second Pyro-hit the next night, but the Medic has a tiny chance of protecting another Townie that Scum was aiming for. A dies, and most likely 2 others die too. Barring Vet hits, at least 2 deaths, probably 3.
Helping the burnt one gives a better expected return on the number of Town saved. There are only 2 situations where not helping might be a better idea, if the Burnt one is a useless Townie AND the Medic is almost 100% sure that a vocal Townie is going to get hit (Trading a crap Townie for a good one), or if the Burnt-claim is fake. Pyro isn´t going to hit a useless Townie, and fake-claiming calls attention to Scum, so neither situation is likely.
Medic helping burnt Townies is almost always a good move.
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United States4714 Posts
Does the engineer's sentry gun tell the engineer who visited the target or just say if someone did?
If it just says someone then yea you are right forumite that is garbage. But if that is the case then kurumi basically made the engineer only have 1 power that is even of any use whatsoever. Might as well have just made the engineer a medic.
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On September 29 2011 02:14 Mig wrote:
Does the engineer's sentry gun tell the engineer who visited the target or just say if someone did?
If it just says someone then yea you are right forumite that is garbage. But if that is the case then kurumi basically made the engineer only have 1 power that is even of any use whatsoever. Might as well have just made the engineer a medic.
Both Scout and Engineer only get information about someone visit a person, though Engineer will know how many visitors the person had.
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United States4714 Posts
Ok so engineer is basically worthless just do the medic invention.
Forumite why couldn't mafia fake claim being burned? Mafia fake claim being rbd all the time even tho it draws attention to them. This is no different except that it hurts town a ton more because it draws potential medics. That being said I agree with the rest of your points concerning burn people claiming. So meh I am not sure what is best honestly.
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On September 28 2011 22:56 tnkted wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 20:45 supersoft wrote:On September 28 2011 20:34 Forumite wrote:
Anyone can be Mute, not just the Blu Sniper. Even Scum can be mute, in which case they can only talk to other scum in the scumthread. How many Mute players there are is unknown. town doesn't have to know who is muted. Only scum wants to know who is muted, because amongst these people, are the snipers. therefor I'd suggest, that noone claims that he's muted anymore. I disagree, I think we SHOULD know who is muted. There are going to be enough muted players anyway that if the mafia shoots into them, they'll have a small chance of hitting someone town, and if they do, its guarrenteed to be a person who isn't being an active townie behind the scenes, pming away, with a smaller chance of someone who is useful to town. Will mafia take that gamble? No, they're going to kill the town organizer, because an organized town is much more scary than a single vig. So I'm going to PM everybody and see who responds. I'll post the results tmrw when I get back to the internet If you don't want people to know if you're mute or not, don't respond, but I encourage you to do so. More info for town = better town play.
the bolded part is wrong. mafia will always hit town/third party. claiming only makes it more likely that they hit the sniper. Now you said they will most likely hit the town organizer but isnt the town organizer one of the most likely medic protects first couple nights?
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On September 29 2011 02:25 Mig wrote:
Ok so engineer is basically worthless just do the medic invention.
Forumite why couldn't mafia fake claim being burned? Mafia fake claim being rbd all the time even tho it draws attention to them. This is no different except that it hurts town a ton more because it draws potential medics. That being said I agree with the rest of your points concerning burn people claiming. So meh I am not sure what is best honestly.
I guess the Engineer could be usefull to confirming claims of visiting roles, but it´s nowhere near as good as if it would give names of visitors. Of the 3 options, the teleporter looks best to me.
Yes, Mafia can fake-claim being burned, but then they either has to not use the Pyro one night, or have a Townie claiming being burned, one is good for Town, the other is dangerous for Scum. Compared to a roleblock, which only has an effect if it hits a blue, not using a roleblock is not as big a deal as not burning.
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If it isn't obvious that tnkted is both blue fishing and medic fishing then I don't know what to say. His plans are extremely pro mafia and the game has barelystarted.
Also since the engineer role has been clarified I think Forumite is more likely to be dumb town than tnkted.
##unvote Forumite
##vote tnkted
On my phone btwn classes so apologies for the shor posts
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Oh actuay I guess Forumite is the one medic fishing.
So yeah they're both still good lynches
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On September 29 2011 03:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
##unvote Forumite
##vote tnkted
Was that a fakevote or did you just forget to post in the voting thread?
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On September 17 2011 23:20 Kurumi wrote:
There are 20 players alive.
4 of 4 Mafia Members are alive.
Mafia KP formula is #/2=KP
Mafia KP now is 2.
2 Mafiakills + 1 sniper + 1 pyro (.5 kp) = 3.5kp.
Oh, so nevermind, I miscounted. 3.5kp still isn't enough for the medic to be worth it though, IMO. I'm willing to be debated over this though.
Something that WBG clearly isn't willing to do.
On September 29 2011 03:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
If it isn't obvious that tnkted is both blue fishing and medic fishing then I don't know what to say. His plans are extremely pro mafia and the game has barelystarted.
Also since the engineer role has been clarified I think Forumite is more likely to be dumb town than tnkted.
##unvote Forumite
##vote tnkted
On my phone btwn classes so apologies for the shor posts
Saying something is 'blatantly' when you're the only person who sees it isn't blatant at all, its just rhetoric. That's all this post is, rhetoric. If you have to explain WHY something is obvious, maybe it isn't obvious at all?
Also, WBG has thought I was scum d1 virtually every single game I've played with him, so zzzz
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so PM land is baller and all but you know, there are mute people around, townies too. and those guys can't really talk in PMs or talk about what's happening in (most) PMs and it's cool and all that you're hanging out in PM land but people need to post here too. 14 pages after one day, this is hands down the slowest mafia game ever. i think it was batman mafia where we were at 60 pages after one day or something like that, and WaW2 too but that was different.
PM land is cool but post here too
i don't like tnkted's plan but it's the only thing there is to talk about. dunno if towns should keep accepting shitty plans in the beginning of the game just for the sake of something to talk about. Mig's logic is sound but that's pretty boring.
also, Palmar actually is scum this time
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EPT
