EPTTL Mafia XLV - Page 10
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Also, where are you getting this idea that super thinks I am scum? Lol God you're terrible at scum dude | ||
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wherebugsgo
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Can we please consolidate votes onto one of sinani/Sevryn? We have 2/2/2 on each of them plus forumite | ||
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wherebugsgo
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Jesus jcarl is not scum you thickhead | ||
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wherebugsgo
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It makes no sense to go for jcarl with 5 hours remaining in the day. Use your head, it doesn't even matter if he's scum, there's no way we can get 7 votes on him in that short amount of time. All of these arguments have been brought up before and they're not valid IMO. besides, why would we lynch him when we have 3 better players to lynch? Sinani, who does nothing then votes DB for no reason, tying himself to Sevryn Sevryn, who does marginally more than nothing but is tied to both sinani and Forumite by way of PM and vote Forumite, who is confirmed to be a liar. So now what gave you the bright idea to split our vote even more when lynch is in less than 5 hours? | ||
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wherebugsgo
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Look at jcarl's play in Resurrection. It is very similar here to how it was there; he was unsure of everything and didn't feel confident in his reads. Jcarl is not scum. He doesn't talk like scum. He's not afraid of giving out reads. He's not afraid to go against the majority lynch. Idk how you actually managed to twist his convo with Mig the way you did, but the way I saw him discuss things with both Incog and with Mig about Incog certainly seemed like a townie trying to get information, As for Sevryn and Sinani neither of them derps THIS hard. Even in MLP when we pushed sinani he was at least responding. Hell this happened in SMG, despite being a total troll he at least posted something. Finally, we are NOT going to get 7 votes on jcarl. This town is too incompetent to be able to consolidate it's votes, we're not about to kill jcarl just because one player thinks he's a better lynch than 3 others. On that note, if jcarl really is scum who is he connected to? There have to be two other scum, it can't just be jcarl. | ||
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wherebugsgo
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Everyone except me would qualify as a scummy lurker at this point to be honest with you. How does your argument not apply to DB, or Nisani, or you? DB doesn't normally lurk this hard. Guess he's scum too right? You're ignoring the mountains of PM evidence I sent you over the last day. Don't throw it into the fire now. | ||
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wherebugsgo
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Is he scum as well? Come on Erandorr you can't really believe this when his meta isn't even consistent.. | ||
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wherebugsgo
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On October 06 2011 03:18 Sevryn wrote: I dont understand. If the case on me uses that im magicly tied to forumite and sinani some how then why dont we lynch them first? LOL cause if we lynch you, then we determine whether they're both scumbuddies with you. If we lynch one of them we don't figure out anything about the other. Plus, people are most comfortable with lynching you. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On October 06 2011 03:33 Erandorr wrote: Hey Jcarl. You say you have a reputation for wrongly accusing town? Well, why don't you do this in this game, too? I have read the logs of you and Bugs, for the most part its him talking at you. All you do thats a "read" is giving bugs a list from bottom to top about scummyness. Thats not giving a read, thats giving a list without any justification. THe rest of the conversation is Bugs talking at you and you, for the most part agreeing with him. For him that is a sign of you being town , not for anybody who looks at it objectivly. The PM part is impossible to track, which makes it very convinient. I do however, have to ask the question why, if you think everyone in here is retarded, you do not try to push your lynch instead of giving a 1 lines accusation about a lurker who is playing his first game. Who have you been talking to the last few days? Now derailing this on my is typical scum logic. If you cannot argue with something, lets make me look bad, too. I agree that my timing is looking scummy but that is not enough to make me scum, The rest of the my Case does make you scum , though. What bugged me about Incog is that you never considered how he could play so bad as Town, either. Oh wait I do. You are scum and knew he is not... Mig thought you are likely scum too, and his judgement is great, you are right  Oh and I love how you ignored my part about your 1 line Vote for Nuke. I'm going to say a few things, and then not bother with you anymore. You indeed have also found it necessary to mischaracterize my posts as an excuse to ignore me. 1. You claim Mig's judgement was so great, but he failed like everyone else did on Incog. I can't believe you're actually using this as an argument for jcarl being scummy when I was also one of those players who was strongly convinced Incog was not scum. In fact, I look even worse than jcarl in this regard because I didn't publicly post why I thought Incog was town. I kept it to PMs and I waited until the Curu case was posted to say anything at all. At that point Incog shot himself in the foot so I had no choice (like everyone else) but to vote him. 2. You focus on his one liner vote on risk.nuke without realizing that there have been other things going on in PMs that would explain this. You seem to be disregarding a lot of other evidence just to tunnel jcarl with 3 hours left in the day. You haven't yet considered who the other scum might be. You haven't put forth any ideas on this at all! Jcarl can't be the only scum. Even if Jcarl is scum, who are the other two? You refuse to answer this. 3. Mig's opinion is not the only one that matters. Yes, he thought jcarl was scummy. But, Curu thought jcarl was town. + Show Spoiler [Curuskypelog] + [10/3/2011 4:08:07 PM] wherebugsgo: yo did Mig tell you why he thinks Erandor and Kenpachi are town? [10/3/2011 4:08:21 PM] Curu: yes [10/3/2011 4:08:32 PM] wherebugsgo: what role did Erandor claim? [10/3/2011 4:08:46 PM] wherebugsgo: and kenpachi? [10/3/2011 4:08:57 PM] wherebugsgo: like, why are they 90% sure town, I'm not getting this [10/3/2011 4:09:09 PM] Curu: wasn't a claim, something else [10/3/2011 4:09:15 PM] wherebugsgo: ? [10/3/2011 4:09:20 PM] wherebugsgo: well so Erandor is mute right? [10/3/2011 4:18:53 PM] Curu: yes [10/3/2011 4:19:08 PM] Curu: you thinkj they are scummy? [10/3/2011 4:19:22 PM] wherebugsgo: I don't think kenpachi is scummy [10/3/2011 4:19:34 PM] wherebugsgo: Erandor...I question why he would want to say in the thread that I PMed him [10/3/2011 4:19:43 PM] wherebugsgo: when I didn't [10/3/2011 4:19:44 PM] wherebugsgo: that's a lie [10/3/2011 4:19:51 PM] wherebugsgo: I PMed him once like 2 days ago [10/3/2011 4:19:53 PM] wherebugsgo: and he never responded [10/3/2011 4:20:16 PM] Curu: cause he has no reason to tell you who has been pming him [10/3/2011 4:20:24 PM] wherebugsgo: I never asked [10/3/2011 4:20:26 PM] wherebugsgo: who he was PMing [10/3/2011 4:20:27 PM] wherebugsgo: 2 days ago [10/3/2011 4:20:33 PM] wherebugsgo: or at least I don't think that's what i asked him [10/3/2011 4:20:37 PM] wherebugsgo: one sec I'll check what I sent him [10/3/2011 4:20:55 PM] Curu: who the hell is asking these questions? [10/3/2011 4:20:58 PM] Curu: is what you posted in the thread [10/3/2011 4:21:15 PM] wherebugsgo: yes [10/3/2011 4:21:20 PM] wherebugsgo: I did post that [10/3/2011 4:21:22 PM] wherebugsgo: but why would he respond [10/3/2011 4:21:24 PM] wherebugsgo: with "you are"? [10/3/2011 4:21:30 PM] wherebugsgo: he could just ask [10/3/2011 4:21:32 PM] wherebugsgo: why do you want to know [10/3/2011 4:21:33 PM] wherebugsgo: etc [10/3/2011 4:21:42 PM] Curu: well there's no reason to tell anyone anyways [10/3/2011 4:21:53 PM] wherebugsgo: okay [10/3/2011 4:21:57 PM] wherebugsgo: but I'm not asking that now [10/3/2011 4:22:03 PM] Curu: mm [10/3/2011 4:22:03 PM] wherebugsgo: obv Mig was asking the questions [10/3/2011 4:22:11 PM] wherebugsgo: so what makes Erandor town? [10/3/2011 4:22:23 PM] wherebugsgo: or at least, more town than me/super [10/3/2011 4:22:28 PM] Curu: not sharing why Erandorr and Kenpachi are Town [10/3/2011 4:22:37 PM] Curu: I want to believe you are Town, your postinga nd stuff has looked Town [10/3/2011 4:22:48 PM] Curu: but you've pushed like Jackal tnkted me prplhz all awfully [10/3/2011 4:22:55 PM] wherebugsgo: indeed [10/3/2011 4:22:56 PM] wherebugsgo: I've played badly [10/3/2011 4:23:06 PM] wherebugsgo: but it's not like anyone else in the town [10/3/2011 4:23:09 PM] wherebugsgo: has had better reads [10/3/2011 4:23:09 PM] Curu: if NotChez is scum you are almost certainly Town [10/3/2011 4:23:10 PM] Curu: though [10/3/2011 4:23:14 PM] Curu: yeah but I expect better from you [10/3/2011 4:23:18 PM] wherebugsgo: lol [10/3/2011 4:23:20 PM] wherebugsgo: I tried [10/3/2011 4:23:20 PM] Curu: sinani needs a look too [10/3/2011 4:23:22 PM] wherebugsgo: defending Incog [10/3/2011 4:23:26 PM] Curu: he came in right after the day [10/3/2011 4:23:28 PM] wherebugsgo: it didn't help [10/3/2011 4:23:33 PM] wherebugsgo: that Incog played as bad as I did [10/3/2011 4:23:33 PM] Curu: to vote incog [10/3/2011 4:23:36 PM] Curu: when he hasnt done shit [10/3/2011 4:23:44 PM] Curu: anytime before or after [10/3/2011 4:23:55 PM] wherebugsgo: right but we could've voted jcarl [10/3/2011 4:23:59 PM] wherebugsgo: for doing the same right? [10/3/2011 4:24:08 PM] Curu: jcarl i have some reasont o believe is Town [10/3/2011 4:24:12 PM] Curu: if he isn't he is playing really good Mafia [10/3/2011 4:24:22 PM] wherebugsgo: so you think NC [10/3/2011 4:24:25 PM] wherebugsgo: and sinani are good choices for mafia? [10/3/2011 4:24:30 PM] wherebugsgo: better than jcarl at least [10/3/2011 4:24:39 PM] wherebugsgo: I agree that NC is very scummy [10/3/2011 4:24:47 PM] wherebugsgo: but I think jcarl deserves a look too [10/3/2011 4:24:51 PM] Curu: yes he does [10/3/2011 4:24:54 PM] Curu: but Incog flipping Town makes jcarl look better [10/3/2011 4:25:03 PM] wherebugsgo: no, not really [10/3/2011 4:25:07 PM] Curu: he had a big debate with Mig about why Incog is scum [10/3/2011 4:25:16 PM] wherebugsgo: in PMs? [10/3/2011 4:25:17 PM] Curu: a scum jcarl I don't think would put that much effort [10/3/2011 4:25:17 PM] Curu: yes [10/3/2011 4:25:25 PM] Curu: he wasn't sold on Incog scum [10/3/2011 4:25:29 PM] Curu: but after a long talk he voted [10/3/2011 4:25:40 PM] Curu: I don't think he would put that effort in if he was scum [10/3/2011 4:25:41 PM] Curu: and Incog Town [10/3/2011 4:25:50 PM] wherebugsgo: okay [10/3/2011 4:25:56 PM] wherebugsgo: and what about Nisani? [10/3/2011 4:26:13 PM] Curu: Nisani didn't derpvote me he saw that the case was bad [10/3/2011 4:26:18 PM] Curu: he has the most reason out of anyone bsides sinani [10/3/2011 4:26:24 PM] Curu: to get away with easy retard votes on me [10/3/2011 4:26:29 PM] wherebugsgo: right [10/3/2011 4:26:34 PM] wherebugsgo: okay so if you think jcarl is town [10/3/2011 4:26:46 PM] wherebugsgo: who is that third guy [10/3/2011 4:26:47 PM] wherebugsgo: you think? [10/3/2011 4:27:02 PM] Curu: third scum? [10/3/2011 4:27:03 PM] wherebugsgo: we have NC/sinani more scummy than jcarl and whoever [10/3/2011 4:27:04 PM] wherebugsgo: yeah [10/3/2011 4:27:22 PM] Curu: I would say between Forumite/sinani/Sevyrn [10/3/2011 4:27:31 PM] Curu: maybe DB but he said he was replacing and came to talk to me before [10/3/2011 4:27:34 PM] Curu: dumping his reads on me Curu's top 3 were NC, sinani, and one of Forumite/sevryn. He said NC and sinani were more scummy than jcarl, with Curu leaning town on jcarl. Mig never justified why he thought jcarl was scum. Curu did, and honestly I have to agree with a justifiable opinion than one that's just the opinion on a player. I am not saying Mig's opinion is invalid, but I'm saying that we need to consider the evidence. If anyone is wondering what this Mig/jcarl PM exchange about incog is about, look at this: + Show Spoiler [jcarlmig] + Original Message From Mig: Yep I agree also, after jackal and forumite aimed at him he immediately added me on skype and gave me all his reads because he thought he was going to die. It was an extremely townie reaction. So I think WBG is just playing really really poorly as town this game. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Original Message From jcarlsoniv: I think it is unlikely that WBG is scum. The way he has been playing this game is very reminiscent of how he had played in LOTR and Resurrection, both of which he was town in. I'm going to skim through Incog's posts in PYP insane. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Original Message From Mig: I think there is at least some chance that Incognito manipulated WBG and NC into going along with him. But overall I think it is more likely that NC and him are both mafia and if Incognito is somehow town I think NC is virtually guaranteed mafia. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Original Message From jcarlsoniv: That's probably why it seems so easy then. Because you definitely have a good case going here. I think my biggest fall back right now is that I don't have the history with people that a lot of you players have. I will have to look into PYP insane, but I believe you. What do you think the chances of NC and Incog both being scum are? Like, if Incog flips either way, how does that make NC look? I think if Incog flips scum, it's very likely that NC is scum. But you said that you think at least one of them is. So even if Incog flips town, you think NC could be scum? With this vig business...that's interesting. That makes it seem that Incog tried to get Curu killed, and then when it didn't work, he needed to have Curu pushed. But you're right. Looking back, the push was more successful than I had realized. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Original Message From Mig: Here is what I sent forumite earlier today. Incognito is not on the level in anyway. He is one of the very best players on TL, day1 he soft defended palmar refusing to vote him and targeted prpl asking vigis to shoot prpl. I told him repeatedly that prpl was probably town but he refused to listen. Day 2 he is attacking Curu and trying to murder the guy who killed a pyro yesterday...... This isn't just bad play this is sooooooooooooo bad. It is like you can always tell when I am mafia because I am doing dumb things and not catching scum and I am always wrong. The exact same thing is true here. Incognito is too good to be playing this bad. And Incognito was on aim all of last night. But did he comment at all once I appeared to defend curu? Nope. He is active lurking and purposefully not commenting on the situation at hand so he doesn't take any heat. What he did was set it up so WBG and NC posted the big case against curu and he just goes yep I agree. So after curu flipped town guess who gets in trouble? Those 2 not him. Like did you see scamp's post he mainly called out NC not incognito for this. Incognito is masterminding the entire thing from the background. He has not contributed whatsoever compared to his normal play. Seriously go read pick your power insane where as a townie he was insanely helpful and caught half the scum team by himself!. But now he is trying to lynch Curu? Just doesn't add up. This game every single thing he does is wrong and he is trying to manipulate the town. Do not let him! There is some chance that WBG is mafia but if so he is just following what Incognito or NC are telling him, and I believe much much more likely they are manipulating him and setting him up to take the fall after Curu flips town! At least one if incognito/NC is scum I guarantee it. Do not let them escape their deaths! So I told DB these thing along with I found out that incognito asked someone he thinks is a vig to shoot curu about 6 hours before the 3 headed dragon case was ever presented. So I believe Incognito is the one who pushed for Curu's death the hardest behind the scenes. Yet he let NC and WBG take all the heat by actually posting their cases and responding when I called them out. Incog just sits in the back silent. Honestly I cannot believe that Incog as town is bad enough to want curu dead this badly when he is very very likely town. Along with that I know for sure Incog has been active pming lots of people right. But what does he have to show for it? This curu case is the best he could come up with really? He has given the town absolutely nothing. Read his playing in Pick Your Power Insane his posts are on a completely different level. He was incredibly helpful and aggressive in finding scum. Here he is totally useless and if you read his posts early on day1 they are incredibly bad. Complaining about the thread but never doing anything to fix it. Complaining that there is too much of a split between euros/americans so he cant organize a good lynch. Promising to provide his thoughts later and never doing so. Is there a chance incog is town? Yes I won't claim to know 100%. But I fully believe that curu lynch attempt was mafia driven and bs, I see no motivation for good townies to ever push for his lynch, which is why it was so easy for me to find tons of holes in it. Which means if I am correct either NC or Incog must be mafia (possibly both). The case against Incognito is about 100x as strong as the case against anyone else right now. And day1 there was almost no resistance to the palmar lynch right so why are you considered about that? And there has been resistance. The curu lynch was a huuuuge gambit. Look how much effort they put into manufacturing that analysis. And they were well on their way to starting a bandwagon. The voting was 5-4 until I appeared and actually talked some common sense into people. So there was definitely a solid attempt to divert the lynch away from Incognito. And if it looks too easy I have answered a lot of people who have pmd me questions which convinced many to switch to him. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Original Message From jcarlsoniv: What did you tell DropBear to make him want to vote Incog? I still have a hard time believing that this would be Incog's scum play, although, as many have pointed out, it doesn't look like his town play either. It just seems like too easy of a lynch. There isn't much contention other than NC's case on Curu, which you promptly tore apart. All that those accusations did for me was put some doubt that Curu is town, but it wasn't nearly enough to make me think scum. I feel stuck because right now, I don't want to vote Incog, but it feels like I have no other choices. | ||
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wherebugsgo
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dude use reason and stop this tunnel | ||
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wherebugsgo
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On October 06 2011 04:16 Erandorr wrote: Oh no , I am completely open minded. THe thing is though that you have unfortunately not given me anything that I would consider enough to change my mind I am afraid. So being active for you means talking to three people? The rest are all dead after all. Why not try to talk to risk.nuke, if you think he is scum? Or Sevryn? They are lurking pretty bad after all. If you are convinced of them being scum, shouldnt you try to get as much information out of them as possible? Please give me another reason for that other than you are scum and do not need to talk to them and know their alignment anyways. neither risk.nuke nor sevryn have been on very often at all. In fact I am the only player left alive who has talked to risk.nuke. As for sevryn he's almost never on, so you can't blame jcarl for not having talked to sevryn. I don't believe I've ever seen them on at the same time. Any of these arguments (why haven't you tried PMing player x?) can be used for a variety of players in the game atm. AFAIK the only player who is going out and PMing others is me. Everyone else seems to be content with sitting around and letting other people do the work for them. I've encouraged the players I've talked to to go out and talk to others but I can't say that's actually happened. No use accusing jcarl on this. | ||
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On October 06 2011 04:53 Forumite wrote: If Sevryn dies to a snipershot now, then several people will get modkilled for not voting. Who is your secondary target? wtf? no they won't. If they do then I will personally never join another Kurumi game ever again. You can choose not to shoot sevryn too. No matter what you do we'll be lynching you tomorrow anyway. | ||
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On October 06 2011 04:59 Forumite wrote: We´ll take that tomorrow, today Sevryn dies to a lynch, not to me. And you will be dead tomorrow. Good for us. | ||
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