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On September 25 2011 23:50 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 21:01 prplhz wrote:
jcarl has been tunneling palmar on and off all game and one liners on everybody else been of no use. the secret message about him being ugluk was placed there by mafia so it's a null tell.
I've been on Palmar because I still think that he could be scum. Players who run around saying "i'm town confirmed" raise a flag for me. Now, it seems rayn is raising some of the same concerns that I did in this post: + Show Spoiler +On September 23 2011 11:12 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 10:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
btw, jcar, what do you think of Palmar?? I don't like the way he's playing. This is partly because of his intentionally abrasive attitude, but also because of his lack of trying to help. Looking through his filter: -Intentionally lurking Day 1. -Calls Radfield a cool guy, votes for Erandorr (but before Radfield does) -Says DrH is giving him bad vibes -Wants the Ring to be passed to a strong town read, i.e. Radfield, Sandroba, himself, or Pyo. At the time, He was one of my weakest town reads, and I was weary of Radfield because of the Erandorr lynch, so this raised a flag for me. - Says Sandroba is likely town, but only if Sandroba stops voting for him. Claims he's basically town confirmed because of his exchanges with DrH. Literally the only time he mentioned DrH before his death is: + Show Spoiler +On September 19 2011 08:32 Palmar wrote:
DrH is giving me really bad vibes. -Says chaoser is more than likely town. -Accuses iGrok, but is also ok with lynching syllogism-I vote Palmar, he clearly didn't give a fuck. -More pushing on iGrok, gives fairly good reasoning. -Continuing to be malicious, especially against syllogism and Cyber. -Now claims chaoser is scum (wait what?) -Believes Drazerk is scum -Starts to think syllogism is town, and Sandroba is looking worse. -More accusing of chaoser and plenty of BM I think Palmar could very possibly be scum. There were quite a few red flags that were raised reading through his filter. The ONLY reason I could see Palmar as being town is because he pushed the iGrok lynch for a long time. But this could be scum bussing iGrok. It would make sense because there was no huge reason for iGrok to claim, and it made him an easy lynch (granted, an easy lynch that we derped on).
Palmar's reason to start the votes on iGrok yesterday was meta from a game that iGrok was a blue role in, and now he's calling himself confirmed town for the second time this game, the first being after claiming a conversation with DocH was the evidence no less.
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On September 26 2011 04:14 heist wrote:
Palmar always claims he's confirmed townie. Don't look too much into it.
I don't have an extensive history with him, but I don't remember him doing it in Cosmic Horror, and he was town in that game...
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It's too quiet here and I need to sleep, so this is post #5
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On September 26 2011 20:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 08:29 Curu wrote:
A message has been delivered to all within the realm!
The message reads:
There is a third party scum team who have yet to lose a member. Also, this. If these messages really are from mafia as i believe, they want us to think there is a 3rd party TEAM, which i don't see probable. Yes, there definetly is Gollum out there who strangles people and might even have the ring now that frodo is dead. Mafias reasoning for this message could be to distract us. If anyone hits a 3rd party, town would still think there is another out there. So be curious about this one.
If there was two seperate scum teams, it'd be Sauron and Saruman imo, unless not reading the books means missing another major faction.
Igrok's ability leads me to believe that Saruman and Sauron are on the same team
+ Show Spoiler [Ability in question] +Passive Ability
[Oneshot]Whatever my Master Desires: You were bred for the sole purpose of serving your masters, Sauron and Saruman
So I doubt it's true.
As for Gollum having the ring, if the strangulation is indeed Gollum, unless someone is Bilbo Baggins, he definitely has it now if he didn't already.
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##Vote Palmar
I've been doing it the last two days and he hasn't given me much reason to stop now. Will provide an argument at some point when I find the time to write it up tomorrow.
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On September 27 2011 03:09 Archon_Toilet wrote:
Pretty sure heist needs to go.
He called out DrH as a terrible lynch on day 1, defended Drazerk to the death then voted for him, called out iGrok as a terrible lynch, was on the original name train.
Low activity, atrocious voting, defends scum then disappears. Heist needs to go. Vote for heist.
Low activity and atrocious voting? Sounds much like someone I know...
That is the very first time you have mentioned heist all game.
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Archon while your here, what's your opinion on Palmar?
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On September 27 2011 03:43 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 03:16 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On September 27 2011 03:09 Archon_Toilet wrote:
Pretty sure heist needs to go.
He called out DrH as a terrible lynch on day 1, defended Drazerk to the death then voted for him, called out iGrok as a terrible lynch, was on the original name train.
Low activity, atrocious voting, defends scum then disappears. Heist needs to go. Vote for heist. Low activity and atrocious voting? Sounds much like someone I know... That is the very first time you have mentioned heist all game. What is your actual opinion on him (Heist) though?
He seems town to me, he's asked for people to give well thought out reasons to vote and didn't follow the Radfield wagon.
Scum or not, DocH wasn't the best choice for a day 1 lynch, and that was very evident in that he never became a major candidate. I don't think that should be used against him. I would like to hear some of his current thoughts since the flip.
I'm on the fence about his 2 candidate policy, it's situational whether two candidates is better or worse than one.
Moreover, the voting for people other than iGrok I believe to have been a mafia bus. so he seems to be a townie to me at the moment.
For as long as I'm asking people, what is your opinion on Palmar?
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To quote myself from a while back
On September 22 2011 19:39 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
These people were on both Errandor and Jackal's wagons at days end, and in my opinion are therefore people we should be wary of:
-Radfield
-kitaman27
-OriginalName
-TranceStorm
-Drazerk
Of which, Radfield is dead and Drazerk is very likely a medic, so I'm comfortable with a lynch on the middle three if it's not Palmar today
Im going to list my reasons to vote Palmar once more, because I believe he was one of the scum behind the bus
Let's start with Palmar confirming himself:
Pre DocH being modkilled-
On September 20 2011 19:05 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 19:02 Palmar wrote:On September 20 2011 19:02 Palmar wrote:
prplhz should probably give the ring away to his strongest townread. I'd go with one of Radfield, Sandroba, myself and pyo. Derp... prplhz said he doesn't actually have the ring. In any case, if you're lying, you should consider giving it away. btw, Sandroba is almost definitely town, but only if he takes his vote off me. I'm basically confirmed town from my exchanges with DrH, but only people like sandroba/syllo etc will see it. We need to keep an eye on syllo... yarly. chaoser is also very likely town. I don't like the smell of iGrok and Kita...
Post iGroks death-
On September 25 2011 22:24 Palmar wrote:
seriously wtf rayn, I'm confirmed town now.
I'm not scummy
Now keep in mind that iGrok was more than likely bussed
At this point, go through Palmar's filter and look at just how sure he was that iGrok was mafia, correct or otherwise. It's amazing how he's working only on meta that he refuses to contrast to iGroks current play.
On iGrok's meta however-
On September 22 2011 02:49 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 02:47 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On September 22 2011 02:25 Palmar wrote:
no you're not prplhz, and I agree with you.
I'm not going to respond to a case made by scum Cyber, sorry.
I can answer some of your questions though, because given the last game I played with you, you were dumb enough to believe shit like "mafia shoots people who are obviously town, but wrong" and then voting for obvious townies.
some things.
a) it's not bandwagoning when I'm the first person to vote him
b) discuss other people all you want, but not lynching iGrok would be nothing sort of stupid right now.
c) I always scumhunt on meta only. Call me bad for it, but I'm actually very effective at finding scum. I'm a bit of a dick so I'm less effective at convincing town.
But yeah, iGrok claiming is weird and unbelievable. So can you provide the meta your using with comparison or not? I already stated it... day 1 of some mafia game by Ace.It's really not relevant anymore since he claimed an anti town role. Then he claimed a medic save (no medic in their right mind would save him at that point).
On September 22 2011 05:51 iGrok wrote:
I'm awake now, and I've calmed down a bit.
First: Palmar, you try to meta me from a game I was BLUE. Dumb.
Now, some of you don't get why I claimed. So look at it from my perspective.
You have a check. You have a oneshot unblockable kill. If you get the ring, you become bulletproof.
If you get the ring, you're fucking set, and you become a town-aligned Bullet-Proof Vigilante with a bonus check.
I doubt mafia have a SECOND unblockable shot, it died with Sauron. Which means I really am unkillable by mafia, which makes me town-aligned.
I'll prove it. I'm not listening to syllogism or Palmar. However, syllogism, who do you think is the most town - I'll let them pick.
Fair compromise?
This is so similar to the Protactinium situation chaoser - but its better for town, and thats why I thought it would work this time.
On September 18 2011 04:01 TranceStorm wrote:I suppose we've decided to defer discussion on the ring until later in the game. That's fine, but I would like to point attention to someone who did catch my eye: Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 02:24 iGrok wrote:
Greymist's thing is not something to lynch for, but it is something to remember in the future. But he is someone to keep an eye on.
I think whoever said WBG is probably gollum with a post restriction is right.
But Drazerk has my biggest suspicions today, and lynching him will also give us the most information so far, both about greymist and the others who jumped on him. So,
##Vote Drazerk This is iGrok's only contribution to the thread at the moment. Having played with iGrok in one game before, he was much more active at the beginning of the game and tried to reason his votes better than this (he was godfather though haha). Nevertheless, I would love to hear more from you, iGrok about your thoughts about what is going on. Currently, he seems to be slipping by relatively unnoticed.
So apparently iGrok's 'meta' wasn't even relevant from the beginning what?
For now my votes staying on Palmar.
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On September 27 2011 14:15 TranceStorm wrote:Anyways, if you are looking for a discrepancy in terms of players who defended iGrok while they wanted chaoser dead, then look at this quote here: Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 03:26 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On September 25 2011 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 25 2011 02:58 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I don't think killing iGrok is the optimal source of information when if we kill someone likely to be scum we can draw links between that person and others. We let him off yesterday, I don't really get why it's suddenly a huge mistake to have done that.
Go back and look at the claims of chaoser and igrok, if we must kill a neutral party, chaoser is the optimal choice.
However, keeping the third party for now might be better because any serial killers within it have a reasonable chance of hitting more of the remaining mafia.
Ideally, I would lynch Palmar today for being entirely useless and acting very scummy. I don't see that happening, so I'm going to
##Unvote
I'm going to vote ON because he was one of the people that followed both of Radfield's vote swings, among other previously listed reasons that convinced me.
##Vote OriginalName Why do you prefer chaoser lynch over iGrok, given the facts; 1) chaoser shot scum 2) iGrok didn't shoot anyone, instead he comes up with a Saruman over OriginalName. iGrok was wierdly enough checking ON night 2, when he was pretty sure Palmar is scum (at least he stated so). Why did he check ON over Palmar? The only reason i can think of is that he checked Palmar night 1. Is that so iGrok? Also he comes with this "ON being Saruman" thing just after heist and Pyo have accused ON. Don't you find it suspicious? Bottom line first, of course it's suspicious, that doesn't make it impossible. That claim wasn't one of the things that convinced me, because it likely was convenient lie. I wouldn't even put it past him to have found the real Saruman and lied about who rather than be forced out of that information so far from the lynch. Chaoser attacked the person who was leading the town best, The fact Radfield flipped scum doesn't necessarily excuse that. I'm not sure about iGrok's reasoning, but learning he could be blocked changed things. The rest of the difference between the two of them in my eyes is related to their claims. Chaoser used a claim that sounded relatively safe, but had many mistakes like Boromir as a neutral party when he was party of the fellowship and a 'win with town' victory condition. iGrok's is nothing near safe and is relatively more believable. Cyber_cheese has defended iGrok throughout the game. Both chaoser and iGrok made suspicious remarks in their claims that were pointed out. However, chaoser has the saving grace of having shot Radfield (no one has counter-claimed) yet Cyber_Cheese says its a better idea to knock off chaoser and has earlier argued for 'controlling' iGrok as well.
I noteably didn't want to kill either, I just wanted to kill the one who claimed to have more kp first. I stick by Palmar being our best lynch.
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On September 28 2011 02:21 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 01:47 Drazerk wrote:On September 28 2011 01:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 28 2011 01:43 Drazerk wrote:On September 28 2011 01:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 28 2011 01:38 Drazerk wrote:On September 28 2011 01:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 28 2011 01:28 Palmar wrote:
it makes no sense for mafia to claim what drazerk has claimed. If he was actually mafia he could've just said he protected me (I got iGrok lyncheD), chaoser (could be a vigi, although he's an SK), or Kita (claimed tracker).
Drazerkery is not scum, he's bad, but not scum.
Mafia claiming has been senseless througout the game already. How would you explain the fact that Drazerk protected prplhz, was not RB, and still there was a mafia hit on prp? I wasn't role blocked because they tried to kill me ( They failed thanks to the second medic ) and they role blocked chaoser who was going to kill one of them last night and possibly reduce them a KP. To be more clear, why would mafia hit prplhz when they clearly know you are going to protect him, and they clearly know you are not going to be roleblocked?Could you answer to the actual question please? They didn't know I was going to protect him... lol Of course they did, as you told them before nightkills. this may be a new concept to you. Telling people your going to do stuff and actually doing stuff are totally different things. For all Mafia knew I was trying to throw them off hitting prp by saying I was going to protect him but actually protect someone else. wut...what would this achieve? We knew prpl was Frodo. So you could claim to protect Frodo, who is a good target for scum, but actually protect someone entirely different, when it was pretty clear scum wants Frodo dead. How does that make any sense at all?
If scum think they know where the medic is, they can avoid it...
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On September 28 2011 02:59 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:Sorry, i misread the other mod post. Yeah, i'm up for lynching kita.
##Unvote
##Vote Kitaman27 ... GGQ, Grey, ON, Archon, Cheese, heist, Tance, Pyro...do any of you guys have an opinion or are you all going to sit back and watch the mislynch?
I'm staying on Palmar for now. I plan on using his flip to influence my next move.
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On September 28 2011 03:05 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 02:43 jcarlsoniv wrote:On September 25 2011 03:06 Palmar wrote:
This game is so much fun. I love it when mafia is open about their trolling lol.
Also, what a baller claim iGrok, you're a hero. If you read Palmar's filter, the vast majority of his posts have been trolling. We've all been ignoring a lot of what he's saying just because he's been super annoying the whole game. He's been openly trolling the whole time. Quoting myself. Really would like to know someone else's thoughts on this.
I've made several cases against Palmar, none of them took off, but he hasn't done much to prove his innocence.
On September 28 2011 03:04 kitaman27 wrote:
That's nice. What happens when I get lynched instead of Palmar? Are you going to continue to vote for him for the rest of the game since mafia is never going to kill him?
Both of you would probably be interested in this post of mine
+ Show Spoiler +On September 27 2011 11:30 Cyber_Cheese wrote:To quote myself from a while back Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 19:39 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
These people were on both Errandor and Jackal's wagons at days end, and in my opinion are therefore people we should be wary of:
-Radfield
-kitaman27
-OriginalName
-TranceStorm
-Drazerk Of which, Radfield is dead and Drazerk is very likely a medic, so I'm comfortable with a lynch on the middle three if it's not Palmar today Im going to list my reasons to vote Palmar once more, because I believe he was one of the scum behind the bus Let's start with Palmar confirming himself: Pre DocH being modkilled- Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 19:05 Palmar wrote:On September 20 2011 19:02 Palmar wrote:On September 20 2011 19:02 Palmar wrote:
prplhz should probably give the ring away to his strongest townread. I'd go with one of Radfield, Sandroba, myself and pyo. Derp... prplhz said he doesn't actually have the ring. In any case, if you're lying, you should consider giving it away. btw, Sandroba is almost definitely town, but only if he takes his vote off me. I'm basically confirmed town from my exchanges with DrH, but only people like sandroba/syllo etc will see it. We need to keep an eye on syllo... yarly. chaoser is also very likely town. I don't like the smell of iGrok and Kita... Post iGroks death- Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 22:24 Palmar wrote:
seriously wtf rayn, I'm confirmed town now.
I'm not scummy Now keep in mind that iGrok was more than likely bussed At this point, go through Palmar's filter and look at just how sure he was that iGrok was mafia, correct or otherwise. It's amazing how he's working only on meta that he refuses to contrast to iGroks current play. On iGrok's meta however- Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 02:49 Palmar wrote:On September 22 2011 02:47 Cyber_Cheese wrote:On September 22 2011 02:25 Palmar wrote:
no you're not prplhz, and I agree with you.
I'm not going to respond to a case made by scum Cyber, sorry.
I can answer some of your questions though, because given the last game I played with you, you were dumb enough to believe shit like "mafia shoots people who are obviously town, but wrong" and then voting for obvious townies.
some things.
a) it's not bandwagoning when I'm the first person to vote him
b) discuss other people all you want, but not lynching iGrok would be nothing sort of stupid right now.
c) I always scumhunt on meta only. Call me bad for it, but I'm actually very effective at finding scum. I'm a bit of a dick so I'm less effective at convincing town.
But yeah, iGrok claiming is weird and unbelievable. So can you provide the meta your using with comparison or not? I already stated it... day 1 of some mafia game by Ace.It's really not relevant anymore since he claimed an anti town role. Then he claimed a medic save (no medic in their right mind would save him at that point). Show nested quote +On September 22 2011 05:51 iGrok wrote:
I'm awake now, and I've calmed down a bit.
First: Palmar, you try to meta me from a game I was BLUE. Dumb.
Now, some of you don't get why I claimed. So look at it from my perspective.
You have a check. You have a oneshot unblockable kill. If you get the ring, you become bulletproof.
If you get the ring, you're fucking set, and you become a town-aligned Bullet-Proof Vigilante with a bonus check.
I doubt mafia have a SECOND unblockable shot, it died with Sauron. Which means I really am unkillable by mafia, which makes me town-aligned.
I'll prove it. I'm not listening to syllogism or Palmar. However, syllogism, who do you think is the most town - I'll let them pick.
Fair compromise?
This is so similar to the Protactinium situation chaoser - but its better for town, and thats why I thought it would work this time. Show nested quote +On September 18 2011 04:01 TranceStorm wrote:I suppose we've decided to defer discussion on the ring until later in the game. That's fine, but I would like to point attention to someone who did catch my eye: On September 18 2011 02:24 iGrok wrote:
Greymist's thing is not something to lynch for, but it is something to remember in the future. But he is someone to keep an eye on.
I think whoever said WBG is probably gollum with a post restriction is right.
But Drazerk has my biggest suspicions today, and lynching him will also give us the most information so far, both about greymist and the others who jumped on him. So,
##Vote Drazerk This is iGrok's only contribution to the thread at the moment. Having played with iGrok in one game before, he was much more active at the beginning of the game and tried to reason his votes better than this (he was godfather though haha). Nevertheless, I would love to hear more from you, iGrok about your thoughts about what is going on. Currently, he seems to be slipping by relatively unnoticed. So apparently iGrok's 'meta' wasn't even relevant from the beginning what? For now my votes staying on Palmar.
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On September 28 2011 04:12 Palmar wrote:
we need more votes on kita, at this rate mafia can basically scumswitch and own us.
Asking townies to move votes seems like good cover for mafia to move theirs. I'd rather catch the mafia out on a late scum switch at this point.
I'm more interested in where these five people who havn't voted at all today decide to go:
jcarlsoniv
GGQ
OriginalName
heist
TranceStorm
And if I'm not mistaken, GGQ hasn't even spoken this cycle
+ Show Spoiler [Current Votes (If im not mistaken)] +
Palmar
Raynpelikoneet
Drazerk
Cyber_Cheese
Heist
Greymist
Archon_Toilet
Drazerk
Raynpelikoneet
Chaoser
OriginalName
Pyo
Kitaman27
Palmar
Chaoser
Raynpelikoneet
Chaoser
Kitaman27
In the meantime,
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I hate to ruin it, but Palmar and Chaoser claim to need the ring a full day/night cycle before disappearing. If Chaoser is killing Palmar tonight, what stops us from lynching him tomorrow?
How exactly is the game 'over'?
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On September 28 2011 22:57 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 22:24 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I hate to ruin it, but Palmar and Chaoser claim to need the ring a full day/night cycle before disappearing. If Chaoser is killing Palmar tonight, what stops us from lynching him tomorrow?
How exactly is the game 'over'? It doesn't he just meets his win criteria and gets a little foot note in the end post. and yes we can lynch him tomorrow but we're not going to ( Palmar might need lynching however should he survive )
If it doesn't end the game I'm perfectly fine with leaving both of them to win/lose/w.e of their own accord, they just seem to leave many hints that it might.
On September 28 2011 08:10 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 08:09 kitaman27 wrote:
lol has the third party faction just achieved victory or something? o.O no, I'm gollum. I have to survive till the end of the game, I have a kp, and I only win if by the end of the game I'm in possession of the ring. So, town can hardly afford lynching me, but mafia likes my KP, so I'm just gonna ally with mafia.
On September 28 2011 08:10 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 08:09 kitaman27 wrote:
lol has the third party faction just achieved victory or something? o.O No, Palmer can only win if he survives the night. Then he's out of the game.
On September 28 2011 08:08 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 08:07 Drazerk wrote:
Chaoser shoot Palmar tonight please... of course he's gonna. btw, if I die, you must lynch chaoser immediately. If you don't, you'll lose the game.
On September 28 2011 08:26 Palmar wrote:what chaoser isn't telling is that the game ends in a 3rd party victory if he survives 
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Alright I was taking a look through the lynches so far, and noticed two things they all had in common.
Dead people are striked out with cause of death. These don't include votes that were retracted.
+ Show Spoiler [Day 1 Lynch Votes] + Final Day 1 Votecount ErandorrPalmar Radfield - Killed Night 2 Syllogism - Killed Night 2 prplhz - Killed Night 3 kitaman27 OriginalName - Lynched Day 4 Vain - Mod Killed Day 2 TranceStorm xtffc - Mod Killed Day 2 Drazerk
Erandorr lynched.
+ Show Spoiler [Day 2 Lynch Votes] + Final Day 2 Vote Count
Jackal58 (9) Greymist chaoser Radfield - Killed Night 3 Drazerk raynpelikoneet jcarlsoniv TranceStorm OriginalName kitaman Jackal lynched.
+ Show Spoiler [Day 3 Lynch Votes] + Final Day 3 Vote Count iGrok (13) GGQ Archon_Toilet Palmar Greymist Drazerk raynpelikoneet Kitaman OriginalName - Lynched Day 4 jcarlsoniv chaoser Archon_Toilet TranceStorm prplhz - Killed Night 3 iGrok Lynched!
+ Show Spoiler [Day 4 Lynch Votes] + Final Day 4 Vote Count OriginalName (5) Heist Drazerk Kitaman27 TranceStorm Chaoser OriginalName Lynched!
1) TranceStorm is the only person to have participated in all of them.
2) The mafia doesn't seem to be targeting the people who were in on the lynches.
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Oh I overlooked Drazerk and Kitaman27 being on all of them too...
Both Pyo and I haven't been on any, and if we disclude the third which most of the town was on, GGQ joins us.
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On September 29 2011 01:48 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Oh I overlooked Drazerk and Kitaman27 being on all of them too...
Both Pyo and I haven't been on any, and if we disclude the third which most of the town was on, GGQ joins us.
I'm not actually sure what to discern from that, but it seems to chalk this up to coincidence:
On September 29 2011 01:37 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
2) The mafia doesn't seem to be targeting the people who were in on the lynches.
Drazerk and Kitaman are both probably blue roles according to the evidence so far, and I'll concede that people that didn't go along with the lynches looks like a much scummier pool at the moment, but considering that the first two lynches were swung by Radfield, I think it's unlikely that all three people that have been in every lynch are innocent.
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EPT
