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On September 23 2011 10:10 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 10:05 jcarlsoniv wrote:On September 23 2011 10:04 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 23 2011 10:02 kitaman27 wrote:On September 23 2011 10:00 jcarlsoniv wrote:On September 23 2011 09:57 Pyo wrote:I knew it!! Radfield = scum... eat shit and die. I guess this means there's a 3rd party SK in the game: On September 23 2011 08:04 Curu wrote:
Radfield as Wormtongue, the Deceiver, Mafia Messenger was put to the sword!
On September 20 2011 08:13 Curu wrote:
Ciryandor as Samwise Gamgee, Town Mason Bodyguard was put to the sword night 1!
Both were "put to the sword." Or it could be a town power that mishit first night and hit second night. Why would town hit cirandor day one? Becouse noone fucking understood his claim. And btw that hit was on prplhz. Oh yeah, and that ^ But is it common for town to get multiple shots like that? Seems a little overpowered... I was only thinking it was a 3rd party SK since it seemed like radfield was "green" to a lot of people so far.
Sandroba had at least two shots and also had the ability to get a shot refunded if he hit a mafia.
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I think iGrok's claim that he found a Maia in OriginalName is incredibly convenient. In my opinion, he simply looked around for whom he thought was most likely scum (and with the analysis that other players provided) announced his target as a part of the effort to get the vote off of him.
Think about it, if you had found a Maia through your investigations, you would come out and say "I found out that x was Maia" at the beginning of the day. Instead what iGrok did was say "I won't tell you who it is" - but then he later switches to "yeah, it was ON" when a few other players were attacking OriginalName at the time.
Finally, I find it strange that iGrok 'chose to investigate' OriginalName when his FOS in the previous day was Palmar. Would you not want to confirm your suspicions?
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On September 25 2011 06:13 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 05:56 Drazerk wrote:On September 25 2011 05:54 Pyo wrote:On September 25 2011 05:50 Drazerk wrote:
iGrok's claim is far to convenient.
Kill him now we can have a real DT ( I hope we have one left ) check ON depending on the flip. because that DT would be anymore believable than iGrok... stop saying stupid things. Yes he would to be honest. Are you serious? Because that is absolutely retarded...
The DT would definitely come under a lot of scrutiny, but at least they wouldn't run into iGrok's issue of having claimed an untrustworthy 3rd party and said something like "I won't tell you who I found unless you guys stop my lynch".
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:o). What a ballsy move by iGrok though.
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On September 26 2011 08:20 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 08:18 chaoser wrote:On September 26 2011 08:12 Drazerk wrote:On September 26 2011 08:09 chaoser wrote:On September 26 2011 08:08 Drazerk wrote:
prplhz was double stacked.
Also suck it scum I survived! Who's the roleblocker? Yeah I was lying to get scum to shoot at me rather than role block me, I got Syllo's motivation and protected both prplhz and yourself and felt me dying would be better than missing out on both protections. I still survived though and I have no idea how. So you're saying there were four KPs to account for? 1 for supersoft, 2 for prplhz, 1 for you? There is 4 KP in place yes. although it could be - 1 super soft 1 me 1 prplhz ( Unblockable ) 1 you
That makes no sense. On night 2 mafia killed syllogism and sandroba (Vain was modkilled). That means a KP of at least 2. Yet somehow, their KP jumped substantially higher despite the fact that they lost 2 mafia members.
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On September 26 2011 08:30 Palmar wrote:
oh wait, the messages are mafia right?
The last one said that Jcarl was Ugluk and we know who that turned out to be. Its probably best to ignore them for the time being.
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On September 26 2011 08:26 Palmar wrote:
I need to re-read them all again to decide that.
Initially I think Kita is the safest lynch. His ability is very... weird, it's a version of tracker that's very seldom in play, and generally the blue roles have been much more notable characters than that elf he claimed.
But its even weirder to play as mafia. Remember that he correctly discerned that chaoser had killed someone. That seems to be more of a town ability than a mafia one. I don't understand why a mafia character would have the ability to simply search for other people who have killed.
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On September 26 2011 08:59 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2011 08:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Btw. Drazerk, you were not RB, so who did you protect? prplhz and chaoser at least one took a hit last night but I don't know which. more likely that prplhz was double stacked though
I must not have been reading properly throughout the thread, but you can protect two people in one night?
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Curu essentially confirmed that Drazerk is a medic. kitaman raises the point that he could possibly be a mafia-aligned doctor (and with so many vig's it seems possible), but let's wait and see before making any judgments about him.
I'm very confused about the votes for kitaman. Kitaman has proven that he has some form of a tracking role and that generally associates itself with a town-aligned role. I don't think its likely at all that mafia would have a tracker who can tell who else can kill.
I agree with the assessment that chaoser is a 3rd party killer due to the suspicious nature of his role claim and because he eventually shot Radfield (no one counter-claimed him). I'm not even sure if he has denied that role. Given our experience with people who have been '3rd parties', I'm rather more inclined to bumping them off rather than uncertain players.
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On September 27 2011 13:53 chaoser wrote:
@TranceStorm
kitaman on iGrok: iGrok claims third party. Kitaman says "Don't kill him, give him strict instructions and if he doesn't follow them, lynch him." iGrok proceeds to not follow said instructions. kitaman never gets on his case and votes for me first and only changes later to iGrok.
kitaman on chaoser: I claim I killed a mafia and have not only the breadcrumbs to back it up but also no one counterclaims. I never claim third party. "His powers don't make sense as a townie, he's third party, lynch him!"
What do you think about the discrepancies between these two reactions?
Oh its a discrepancy alright, but I still can't reconcile his 'tracking' ability with that of a mafia player. Furthermore, the Kitaman on iGrok quote came when Radfield was busily roping us along to divert the lynch from iGrok to Jackal. I myself fell into a similar state where on one day I was thinking "oh great, we can control iGrok" to saying "iGrok cannot live any longer".
Apparently kitaman also has the ability to check whatever action a person did during the night as implied by his quote here:
The person I checked did not perform a kill last night. I won't say whether or not they performed a different action, because there is no reason to give scum information about who might be blue or vanilla townie.
I'd give him leeway for the time being.
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Anyways, if you are looking for a discrepancy in terms of players who defended iGrok while they wanted chaoser dead, then look at this quote here:
On September 25 2011 03:26 Cyber_Cheese wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2011 03:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 25 2011 02:58 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
I don't think killing iGrok is the optimal source of information when if we kill someone likely to be scum we can draw links between that person and others. We let him off yesterday, I don't really get why it's suddenly a huge mistake to have done that.
Go back and look at the claims of chaoser and igrok, if we must kill a neutral party, chaoser is the optimal choice.
However, keeping the third party for now might be better because any serial killers within it have a reasonable chance of hitting more of the remaining mafia.
Ideally, I would lynch Palmar today for being entirely useless and acting very scummy. I don't see that happening, so I'm going to
##Unvote
I'm going to vote ON because he was one of the people that followed both of Radfield's vote swings, among other previously listed reasons that convinced me.
##Vote OriginalName Why do you prefer chaoser lynch over iGrok, given the facts; 1) chaoser shot scum 2) iGrok didn't shoot anyone, instead he comes up with a Saruman over OriginalName. iGrok was wierdly enough checking ON night 2, when he was pretty sure Palmar is scum (at least he stated so). Why did he check ON over Palmar? The only reason i can think of is that he checked Palmar night 1. Is that so iGrok? Also he comes with this "ON being Saruman" thing just after heist and Pyo have accused ON. Don't you find it suspicious? Bottom line first, of course it's suspicious, that doesn't make it impossible. That claim wasn't one of the things that convinced me, because it likely was convenient lie. I wouldn't even put it past him to have found the real Saruman and lied about who rather than be forced out of that information so far from the lynch. Chaoser attacked the person who was leading the town best, The fact Radfield flipped scum doesn't necessarily excuse that. I'm not sure about iGrok's reasoning, but learning he could be blocked changed things. The rest of the difference between the two of them in my eyes is related to their claims. Chaoser used a claim that sounded relatively safe, but had many mistakes like Boromir as a neutral party when he was party of the fellowship and a 'win with town' victory condition. iGrok's is nothing near safe and is relatively more believable.
Cyber_cheese has defended iGrok throughout the game. Both chaoser and iGrok made suspicious remarks in their claims that were pointed out. However, chaoser has the saving grace of having shot Radfield (no one has counter-claimed) yet Cyber_Cheese says its a better idea to knock off chaoser and has earlier argued for 'controlling' iGrok as well.
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@chaoser Both roles make no sense at all to me. But your point 2 would mean that the mafia team would have taken a very very bold gamble. I suppose that kitaman hasn't revealed all of his abilities and is intentionally being mum about them (as you are at times). I'd rather vote for Cyber_Cheese who committed the same fallacy that kitaman did, but without the 'tracker' claim.
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On September 27 2011 14:27 chaoser wrote:
Kitaman has yet to name his role like he asked me to. Would giving the name of your character really be that advantageous to mafia? Also, I find it interesting that kitaman basically claimed a blue role on Day 3 and yet mafia didn't kill him, instead going for a kill on supersoft, someone that they didn't know was blue or not. Why let a tracker, even a gimped tracker survive, especially someone like kitaman who is a decent vet town player survive? One track on a mafia pulling off a kill would immediately fuck them over.
He did claim that his role was "Madril, Ranger of Ithilien".
But the supersoft dying instead of him is very fishy. Not even getting a roleblock seems to be very suspicious for a player who is the only player who has revealed that he has the ability to identify (somewhat) who the mafia are.
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On September 28 2011 00:45 kitaman27 wrote:
There were 20+ players in the game. Its unreasonable to think I would just risk a tracker claim and hope I was right. If the 1/20+ odds don't go my way, then I'm lynched for lying. The fact is, I am a tracker and I wasn't lying. As for being a mafia tracker, I don't recall ever playing in a game where scum could track people. Even it its possible, 99% of the time, the tracker is town aligned. Don't overthink this.
Also, isn't it convenient that nobody else is committing one way or another until they see where the safe lynch is? People like draz have completely disappeared.
I really really want to believe that kitaman is mafia, but this is the stumbling block for me. I find it super suspicious that the one information role who has scum-hunting abilities was not even touched by the mafia who decided to hit an assortment of other players instead.
But at the same time, kitaman did call out chaoser correctly, and I don't think a tracker would be useful at all in the hands of mafia. Chaoser makes some arguments about how kitaman made a massive gamble and what not, but that's got a really really low chance of success (must less than even iGrok's gamble) and I don't think the mafia would take that risk.
On the basis of his role itself, I think kitaman is not mafia.
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On September 28 2011 05:45 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:41 TranceStorm wrote:On September 28 2011 00:45 kitaman27 wrote:
There were 20+ players in the game. Its unreasonable to think I would just risk a tracker claim and hope I was right. If the 1/20+ odds don't go my way, then I'm lynched for lying. The fact is, I am a tracker and I wasn't lying. As for being a mafia tracker, I don't recall ever playing in a game where scum could track people. Even it its possible, 99% of the time, the tracker is town aligned. Don't overthink this.
Also, isn't it convenient that nobody else is committing one way or another until they see where the safe lynch is? People like draz have completely disappeared. I really really want to believe that kitaman is mafia, but this is the stumbling block for me. I find it super suspicious that the one information role who has scum-hunting abilities was not even touched by the mafia who decided to hit an assortment of other players instead. But at the same time, kitaman did call out chaoser correctly, and I don't think a tracker would be useful at all in the hands of mafia. Chaoser makes some arguments about how kitaman made a massive gamble and what not, but that's got a really really low chance of success (must less than even iGrok's gamble) and I don't think the mafia would take that risk. On the basis of his role itself, I think kitaman is not mafia. I claimed DT as mafia in a game where a tracker, a watcher, and two other DTs were out in the open. Many people sheeped me into letting the mafia win. Let's not have that happen again.
Yeah but kitaman essentially confirmed his powers as tracker - not like in your previous instances. When he called you out, only 3 people had been killed that night (not including modkills). That means that he only had a 3/20ish chance of picking out the right person if he was just guessing. Not likely in my opinion. Its far more likely that he's not lying about his abilities.
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I'm under the opinion that mafia are not among our top candidates. For example, I am still extra suspicious of Cyber_Cheese because of his vote for OriginalName and because of his "I'd rather lynch chaoser than iGrok" comments. I think people are putting a little too much faith into the fact that mafia were bussing iGrok. Remember that Radfield led a last-minute effort on day 2 to pull the lynch off of iGrok and onto Jackal.
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On September 28 2011 05:52 chaoser wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 05:49 TranceStorm wrote:On September 28 2011 05:45 chaoser wrote:On September 28 2011 05:41 TranceStorm wrote:On September 28 2011 00:45 kitaman27 wrote:
There were 20+ players in the game. Its unreasonable to think I would just risk a tracker claim and hope I was right. If the 1/20+ odds don't go my way, then I'm lynched for lying. The fact is, I am a tracker and I wasn't lying. As for being a mafia tracker, I don't recall ever playing in a game where scum could track people. Even it its possible, 99% of the time, the tracker is town aligned. Don't overthink this.
Also, isn't it convenient that nobody else is committing one way or another until they see where the safe lynch is? People like draz have completely disappeared. I really really want to believe that kitaman is mafia, but this is the stumbling block for me. I find it super suspicious that the one information role who has scum-hunting abilities was not even touched by the mafia who decided to hit an assortment of other players instead. But at the same time, kitaman did call out chaoser correctly, and I don't think a tracker would be useful at all in the hands of mafia. Chaoser makes some arguments about how kitaman made a massive gamble and what not, but that's got a really really low chance of success (must less than even iGrok's gamble) and I don't think the mafia would take that risk. On the basis of his role itself, I think kitaman is not mafia. I claimed DT as mafia in a game where a tracker, a watcher, and two other DTs were out in the open. Many people sheeped me into letting the mafia win. Let's not have that happen again. Yeah but kitaman essentially confirmed his powers as tracker - not like in your previous instances. When he called you out, only 3 people had been killed that night (not including modkills). That means that he only had a 3/20ish chance of picking out the right person if he was just guessing. Not likely in my opinion. Its far more likely that he's not lying about his abilities. Radfield, who was mafia, already thought I was a third party. Him announcing it so late is also due to the fact that he was deciding on whether he wanted to do it or not. He could have claimed he tracked me early right after the flip. He waited 7 hours until he did it and when asked why he said "he wanted to see what I was going to do" except he never asks me any questions before that, never talks to me before that. It make no sense.
Yeah but waiting for 7 hours doesn't change the fact that there is still only a 3/20 chance of being correct. And if he were mafia, it would be even lower because he would have had to identify the vig/3rd party. Regardless of his suspicious actions, the fact that he made that correct call is so unlikely if he were mafia.
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I cannot vote for kitaman right now. It just seems far too improbable that he could decipher chaoser's killing ability if he were mafia in which he would have had less than 3/20 chance (given that some of those kills were mafia too) and way way way too risky. I think he is a genuine tracker who has a weird ability (both chaoser and kitaman have really warped roles).
In light of that, I think that neither of the two are good lynches. Cyber_Cheese is my best bet at the moment because of his 'defense' of iGrok - preferring to lynch ON and chaoser to iGrok.
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On September 28 2011 07:06 Drazerk wrote:
You guys are really going to spread the votes more?
>.>
It's also a bit of an issue that I'm not confident at all in lynching Palmar or ON. Let me reread the arguments about ON first
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EPT
