On September 14 2011 14:37 Nisani201 wrote: Me: I believe in pressuring lurkers, but not lynching them.
Curu: WTF man, you want to lynch lurkers, but you're not!!! OMG SCUM HERPADERP
the second you say that you just want to pressure them and not lynch it gets rid of all the credibility of the pressure. why does everyone keep discussing pressure votes. vote like your going to lynch someone if its a pressure vote thats fine but dont be like hurp durp im going to pressure vote yew!!!!
Player A is a lurker. Player B is me, and represents my opinion on how lurkers should be dealt with.
Player B: A isn't posting much. Vote: PlayerA. I want to hear your opinions. There are two scenarios.
Scenario X: A says nothing: Player B: If A were town, he would have no problem with sharing his opinions. But he is not. We should not keep him alive.
Scenario Y: A says something. Player A: Well I think Qatol is looking super scummy, also people shouldn't be voting for GMarshal because I don't think there is a good case against him. Player B: Fantastic. Thank you. The pressure has worked, and I will now vote for Mr. Scummy Suspect, instead of you. Unvote.
On September 14 2011 14:37 Nisani201 wrote: Me: I believe in pressuring lurkers, but not lynching them.
Curu: WTF man, you want to lynch lurkers, but you're not!!! OMG SCUM HERPADERP
the second you say that you just want to pressure them and not lynch it gets rid of all the credibility of the pressure. why does everyone keep discussing pressure votes. vote like your going to lynch someone if its a pressure vote thats fine but dont be like hurp durp im going to pressure vote yew!!!!
Player A is a lurker. Player B is me, and represents my opinion on how lurkers should be dealt with.
Player B: A isn't posting much. Vote: PlayerA. I want to hear your opinions. There are two scenarios.
Scenario X: A says nothing: Player B: If A were town, he would have no problem with sharing his opinions. But he is not. We should not keep him alive.
Scenario Y: A says something. Player A: Well I think Qatol is looking super scummy, also people shouldn't be voting for GMarshal because I don't think there is a good case against him. Player B: Fantastic. Thank you. The pressure has worked, and I will now vote for Mr. Scummy Suspect, instead of you. Unvote.
I agree thats a great way to pressure but if before player A responds someone questions your vote on him. and you go "jk guiz it was just pressure" 1 there is no real pressure 2 scum can just claim pressure votes all day
1) Wrong, votes are votes and even if I say that it is pressure, it is still a vote. 2) Wrong again. If scum does this, and the pressure is responded to, they must vote for someone else.
On September 14 2011 14:55 Curu wrote: Thanks for telling me I'm aggressive and either Town or scum. Hey I think you're either Town or scum too!
So I brought sinani out of his lurkiness but you have an issue with me doing it?
the first part at least is at me. @nisani The problem is the threat of a lynch is much less when you tell everyone its a pressure vote because people are not very likely to vote with you if you just say its a pressure vote,
On September 14 2011 15:00 Curu wrote: Nisani do you think Forumite is scum? And do you have a reason for calling me scum other than I called "everyone" scum?
I'm not sure about Forumite. He's in a different timezone, so I expect to have much more information by then.
You are scum because you are using many a bullshit argument.
On September 14 2011 15:00 Curu wrote: Nisani do you think Forumite is scum? And do you have a reason for calling me scum other than I called "everyone" scum?
I'm not sure about Forumite. He's in a different timezone, so I expect to have much more information by then.
You are scum because you are using many a bullshit argument.
First paragraph of that made no sense, allow me to rephrase:
I'm not sure about Forumite. He's in a different timezone, so I expect to have much more information tomorrow morning (in my timezone, PST).
On September 14 2011 14:39 Curu wrote: How about you address the whole post instead of the one part of it that you can give a null answer to.
Explain what you meant about the "info is only good for Mafia." You say I'm twisting your words, explain your meaning then.
And explain what makes me your top scumread besides the fact that I am voting for you.
herpaderp
I'm multitasking atm, don't expect immediate responses lol. Be happy that I'm spending my night doing this.
I never said "info is only good for mafia." Polls are scummy because they can have info that is specific to scum in them. A townie has no use for a poll because they can just ask the question one by one through regular discussion. Scum uses polls to get a sense of everything going on so they can "blend in." I'm not going to argue this point anymore, as it's getting unnecessary.
You are scummy because of your poll and your quick vote for me as soon as you were put into the game without putting any thought into it. I explained your thought process in my comic on the previous page.
So I'm putting myself way out there just to get you lynched rather than blend in and avoid attention, which is what you say Mafia likes to do.
You know how you find Mafia? By making them state their opinions in the thread and then catching them when they contradict or skirt their previous opinions. You post like you don't even consider the possibility that any of the people I asked are Mafia, that they're all Townies I'm "polling" so I can get their opinions and try to blend in. You know something about their alignment that we don't, bud?
I'm done bashing my head against the wall for today. I'll come back when there are other people around besides the mutual defense scumbuddies and Captain Blend-in Sevyrn.
On September 14 2011 14:39 Curu wrote: How about you address the whole post instead of the one part of it that you can give a null answer to.
Explain what you meant about the "info is only good for Mafia." You say I'm twisting your words, explain your meaning then.
And explain what makes me your top scumread besides the fact that I am voting for you.
herpaderp
I'm multitasking atm, don't expect immediate responses lol. Be happy that I'm spending my night doing this.
I never said "info is only good for mafia." Polls are scummy because they can have info that is specific to scum in them. A townie has no use for a poll because they can just ask the question one by one through regular discussion. Scum uses polls to get a sense of everything going on so they can "blend in." I'm not going to argue this point anymore, as it's getting unnecessary.
You are scummy because of your poll and your quick vote for me as soon as you were put into the game without putting any thought into it. I explained your thought process in my comic on the previous page.
Oh wait gotta point out one more contradiction before I go nighty night. He thinks scum love to blend in, then points out that I'm doing the exact opposite of blending in, therefore I'm scum.
I remember Curu from WW-mafia, I expect this kind of play of chainsaw scumhunting from him. I prefer not to lynch lurkers as a policy, and sinani206 is not a lurker anymore. However, when arguing with Curu, he felt like he was getting riled up too much, with trollposts, with cursing before and after GM told them to calm down. That´s the part I feel is off, the anger, not the cursing. It´s good that he´s posting again, but what he did post felt scummy to me.
##Vote sinani206
I would like to hear the opinions of Jackal, Dreamflower and Lucidity, mostly on sinani/nisani.
On September 14 2011 00:18 dreamflower wrote: At the moment, I am more in favor of lynching an inactive, because town lurkers still don't help the town if they're not sharing their thoughts or giving us information and Mafia lurkers are, well, Mafia. I am currently unconvinced by the cases so far, as they tend to be based on post-by-post analyses of posts made on Day 1, when most of us were unsure of what we should be discussing or trying to accomplish. Generally, I tend to be skeptical of post-by-post analysis, as they often are just nitpicking at small contradictions or confusing phrases in posts that perhaps the poster just didn't think through clearly and they seem to assume that Mafia will give themselves away a little in every post, which they usually don't. Right now, the cases made against Forumite and Greymist strike me as being more like townies accusing townies, so I'm hesitant to vote for a lynch based on those cases.
I did think it was a little odd that Forumite asked for a DT check on Jackal. But it seems like Jackal is a pretty well-known player, so I suppose it makes sense that he is subject to the scrutiny that well-known players tend to receive, like Ver or Ace. Jackal himself also seems quieter than I expected, though perhaps that is only because it is so early in the game.
So, I would much prefer lynching a lurker right now. The lurkers that stand out most to me are Sevryn and DroneAllDay. Of these two, the latter has specifically stated that he is very new and will be lurking a lot, which on one hand could be an honest statement of confusion but on the other hand could be a Mafia trying to look like a clueless newbie. The former, Sevryn, has made only a few game-related, non-pony-discussing posts, most regarding the Day post and how it'll give us more to talk about. Yet, he himself hasn't said anything substantial after the Day post except "Oh yay Day post. So, what are the Elements of Harmony?" I would very much like to hear from these two players sometime soon. I also wouldn't mind hearing about everyone's thoughts regarding the merits and flaws of lynching inactives versus lynching someone in particular.
Essentially this post served two purposes:
Introducing the idea of really attempting to lynch a lurker today. Getting a feel for our willingness to follow such a strategy with the last sentence.
Discrediting the cases brought forward so far.
Lynching lurkers should be a last resort. Going after lurkers (and by lurkers she actually means INACTIVES) allows scum to not offer any opinions and simply sheep onto an easy vote. This is not an ideal situation to say the least.
She discredits the cases against Forumite and Greymist, by simply saying that she doesn't like post by post analysis and that she thinks townies are accusing townies. Could you explain why you think townies are accusing townies dreamflower? You offer no reason to doubt the case based on actual discussion points. Simply "oh I'm unconvinced".
On September 14 2011 00:25 dreamflower wrote: Bah. And now that I posted, Sevryn has posted and even voted for Forumite. -_- I'm still a little cautious about the case on Forumite, as people seem to be basing it mostly on that one post and making him defend his ideas. I agree that his defense has also been inept, but I don't think it necessarily means he is Mafia.
For now, I guess I will just vote for DroneAllDay. And learn to refresh the page a lot better while I'm posting.
##vote DroneAllDay
Note the displeasure when she sees that someone else voted Forumite. So instead of waiting for other's opinions on the LaL strategy she proposed, she goes ahead with it to try and divert attention away from real scum hunting by voting for DroneAllDay.
Look at the reasoning in that post.
She is visibly upset with another vote on Forumite. She thinks his defense is inept. But somehow he does not deserve any attention. Instead she "guesses" she'll vote for DroneAllDay.
Point? She's defending Forumite with no real reasoning. She puts her vote on an inactive, not a lurker.
On September 14 2011 00:32 Jackal58 wrote: Dreamflower lynching inactives is counter productive. Inactives are most likely going to be mod killed. Lurkers on the other hand are a different animal. There is a difference between the two. When you said inactives I'm pretty sure you were still referring to lurkers.
Ah, true. Yes, I was referring to lurkers when I said inactives. My apologies. A lot of my thinking still dates back to the olden days before inactivity modkills or the Ban List, so please excuse me if I phrase things oddly like that.
I also agree about OriginalName, whom I'm a little annoyed about not noticing myself. I also noticed that DroneAllDay's statement of Mafia newness came very soon after he signed up and long before roles were sent out, so that pretty much rules out his being a Mafia trying to masquerade as a newbie. My mistake there. OriginalName's one contribution to the thread after the Day post has been to call Forumite's post "a huge pile of fluff," but after that he hasn't said anything else at all. That does look more like lurking than outright inactivity.
To add my own opinion on the merits of lynching lurkers, I think it is a good idea early on, when we don't have much information to work with. I agree that lynching lurkers doesn't yield much information afterward, but I don't think going after "real" targets always does either. The people who argue for a townie to be lynched or vote for their lynch are not necessarily Mafia themselves. So, I don't think either approach can give us much in the way of useful information.
The part highlighted in red essentially explains why ON is where her vote should be. DroneAllDay is an inactive, which she doesn't want to go for. She wants lurkers, and ON is one. Yet her vote stays on DroneAllDay. She dedicates an entire paragraph to explaining why DAD is a bad vote, and then doesn't change it.
Then she goes on to try and push the LaL objective. We shouldn't be lynching for information. DEFINITELY not on Day 1. We should be hunting scum. Lynching lurkers (inactives) is not scum hunting. It doesn't give us any information, which you think is important? Yet you still advocate lynching lurkers. Going after "real" targets actually DOES offer us information ito voting patterns, defenses e t c . Not that, that is our first priority, but it blows your LaL policy out of the water.
tl;dr
Defends Forumite and greymist with no reasoning. Pushes anti-town objective of lynching inactives instead of scum hunting.
(Note that she really means inactives when she says lurkers, even though she indicated otherwise. Her posts make that clear enough.)
Seeing voting patterns without a voting thread is hard -.- Could we have a vote count/list of players and who they voted for in order or something somewhere;D?
EPT
