Haven't played in quite a while, but definitely been wanting to jump back in.
Resurrection Mafia
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
Haven't played in quite a while, but definitely been wanting to jump back in. | ||
jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On August 31 2011 06:23 OriginalName wrote: Ill be slightly lurkerish for the first half of day one since this game starts on my birthday ._. No excuses. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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Really looking forward to this game | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 01 2011 00:32 iGrok wrote: Alright guys, looking great! We'll be starting at 8:00pm est. Tonight? Or tomorrow night? Here I've been sitting and waiting, and I realized the 1st isn't til tomorrow =X | ||
jcarlsoniv
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But I assume that when people get a role PM, they will check the thread =) | ||
jcarlsoniv
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O_o Warranted? Idk, I've never played a game with Chaos13. Come to think of it, I haven't played with a lot of people on the list. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 01 2011 09:54 Varpulis wrote: I have a proposal, for the purpose of maximizing efficiency with our mandated double lynch. For the first day, maybe the first 2, we lynch a scummy person, one of average activity, and the scummiest lurker. This achieves all of the goals of a day one lynch (lynch somebody who people have given an opinon on and who will give information when/if we see them flip, as per the goal of a normal game), as well as eliminating a lurker. Lurkers are hard to read and dare i say distracting to the town as the game goes on, so i'd like to take advantage of the tools given to us and get rid of them early. As the game continues we will have more information to go on, and the chances of us accurately lynching more than one scum are increased, so we can lynch normally. Using lynches on lurkers early is a crap shoot. Yes, lurkers suck. But I'd much prefer not to waste lynches on them. Getting rid of the scummiest players early on is much more important. Although, I do agree, lurkers are extremely distracting to town. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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It's going to be natural for people to read into other peoples' play styles. Also, GMarshal...claiming? And shrouded in nonsensical babble. Why? | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 01 2011 11:30 Varpulis wrote: you didn't read the whole post, did you? GMarsal isn't playing. Basing votes and lynches purely off of meta is hit and miss. sometimes it can have accurate results (example being Mig in XLIV) but in other situations, (such as this one) it can lead to mislynches because somebody is playing "off their meta." I seem to get accused of this every other game, actually. I'm not saying voting based of meta is good or bad. I'm just saying it will happen. People will tend to notice patterns in behavior. Also, yes, I derped hard. GMarshal confused me =( | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 01 2011 11:43 Ace wrote: how is trying to look pro-town a Scummy thing? Likewise, how is posting guidelines for the way you would want the game to proceed Scummy? Neither are, and neither one is specific enough behavior to even matter. Except...it would make sense that he would be "trying to look pro-town" if he were scum. The scum are the ones who would be "trying to look pro-town". He is posting guidelines that are delightfully obvious. The things he lists are things that should happen in any town, and it's the scum's job to want to make them happen. The people who are town are town. The people who are not town want to look town. I know you are a good scum hunter, Ace. And I know these are things you know. Why would you be so quick to refute the possibility of scum behavior? | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 01 2011 12:46 Ace wrote: Everyone is trying to look pro-town. It prevents you from getting thought of as lynch bait. I'm not refuting the possibility of scummy behavior. I'm pointing out that something as inane as "he's trying to look pro-town" isn't going to help us find Scum. Town sided players also tend to look pro-town at times too you know? Understood. But in the beginning, I think the little things tend to be nit-picked. Whether it may or may not be correct doesn't quite matter as much as generating the discussion to start finding the scum. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 01 2011 17:54 Kenpachi wrote: ok sorry guys. i had to sleep early to wake up early but i never slept so i never woke up. Its the morning and im tired but who cares (ps. happy birthday ON, wasnt able to tell you on LoL) Im a townie and im sad because im not an awesome role that is the priest or the necromancer in an epic setup like this. le sigh my gut feeling is telling me that if varp is scum, his team doesnt consist of me I would also like a summary of these following players: Sknowman Wherebugsgo jcarlsoniv i dont know who these guys are and i would like to know if they are fellow lurkers or not. I want to say varpulis is scummy but i have seen too many useless introductory posts that i dont know anymore. Aside from that i want to bring your attention to this: Red was pretty senseless in posting this. Instead of atleast justifying or defending himself, he asks what does not need to be asked. fos redff You want a summary of 3 players after literally 2 pages of play? You can't take 10 minutes to ready through to find what we posted, but you have time to find what sinani posts and accuse Red of being scum. What Red posted is not senseless at all. Here Red is, pressuring Varp at the very start of the game, giving analysis (correct or not), getting reactions. I think it's definitely warranted for Red to ask why he's being FoSd. Tunneling works. It puts pressure on an individual, and obtains reactions from the other individuals. It exposes those who are grouping together. So far, I see: Varpulis Kenpachi sinani grouped through defenses. Also: On September 01 2011 21:32 Palmar wrote: So how about we lynch Varpulis and jcarlsoniv? I think that'd be a good way to start the game. If you absolutely wanted to lynch me, whatever. It would be a waste of a lynch, AND I would like to see some reasoning behind it. If you're lynching me because I'm lurking, well then read the last 2 freaking pages again. I'm not lurking even a little bit. On September 01 2011 21:32 Palmar wrote: I think redFF and chaos13 are almost definitely town, but I need more evidence to be conclusive. I don't necessarily disagree, but chaos13 has not posted much at all that would let me lean either way. I'm neutral on him at the moment. And I'll also be watching Red. While I agree with him that Varp seems scummy, some of the best scum hunters can turn out to be scum. They kinda cheat =) | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 01 2011 22:41 Palmar wrote: Let's turn the question around, why should I not want to lynch you? Because it is a wasted lynch. If you really want to lynch me, I know there's little I can do to stop it. But if you lynch me, you're wasting a spot that could be used on scum. All you've done so far in this game is post observations and summarizing the events already going on. Most of the point of the game is to post observations...that's how you learn things. Not all too much has happened yet. There's only 2 pages of play thus far. I just made my own post on Kenpachi, but I suppose that was just "summarizing the events already going on" too? I'm not saying red is town because I think he's good at scumhunting. I read the thread and draw my own conclusions. redFF is not a bad player, so after reading his posts I'm leaning towards town right now. On you, however, I'm leaning towards scum. You're wrong. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 01 2011 23:22 Ace wrote: why do I sign up for these games Why even bother posting if you're going to be useless about it? | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 02 2011 01:08 sinani206 wrote: I don't think you know the meaning of FoS. FoS means I find you suspicious. It doesn't mean that you are scum. Am I not allowed to have suspicions? You're allowed to have suspicions, sure. I feel like that is still a very weak basis to FoS on. It is natural for people to start observing peoples' behavior and draw conclusions based on previous experience, especially at the start of a game. As I've said before, the discussion has to start somewhere. Meta and policies aren't a good enough case for a lynch right now. You're correct. It's not a good enough case for a lynch. However, it is a good basis to put pressure on players, and gains reactions from other players, namely players like you. The way I see it is a scum teammate rushing to his partners side to accuse the accuser. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 02 2011 00:16 Palmar wrote: Why do you bother? It's not like you're actually trying. Most of us are. Why do you act as if what people are saying right now is final? We talk in circles to try to figure out what drives each one of us until we can pinpoint whoever is anti town. The people that don't join in on the conversation are those who are really dangerous to town, because they don't leave behind anything to investigate them on. By the way, I don't want to lynch jcarlvson anymore. Now I wanna lynch Varpulis and Sandroba. Why the sudden change of heart? | ||
jcarlsoniv
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I want to know your motives. You're correct in not wanting to lynch me anymore, but I want to know why you changed your mind. The reasons behind peoples' actions are how you figure them out. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 02 2011 03:53 sandroba wrote: Okay, I've read the thread now and it's shit. Let's not lynch varpulis now because it's dumb. Everyone is jumping on this silly bandwagon without any evidence at all. Well, seeing as there are still 29 hours left in the day, I wouldn't say it's a bandwagon. It's a place to start. Read what Ace said, he knows his shit. I'm really not keen on what Ace said only because he has already shown he has no interest in this game: + Show Spoiler + On September 01 2011 23:22 Ace wrote: why do I sign up for these games @redFF why do you think ON is town? He has a 2 posts that don't say much. It's funny you say that because him and bum are on the top of my watch list right now. That's a good point, and something I meant to comment on earlier. Although until ON and bum post more and have something to say, I wouldn't say their on the top of a watch list, but definitely people to pay attention to once they really show up. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 02 2011 04:17 sandroba wrote: This is what I'm refering to. If a guy is being useless and making blend in posts when there is actually something else to talk about, that is indeed suspicious. But whatever varpulis posted 1 hour into the game to try to get discussion going when there was nothing to talk about says nothing about his aligment. I'll much rather not waste a day discussing him right now. What do you guys say about the 3 top suspects idea. I'd like to see comments on that. Also bum your easy vote on varpulis was lol. Care to give me your reasoning behind your vote? Well, for a top 3 suspects thing to work, we would need to actually be able to decide on 3 suspects. People, however, don't seem too keen on the one suspect we have. So what do you suggest? Picking people at random off the list? Fine I can do that. How bout... SKnowman Kenpachi sinani206 But the thing is, I just picked people. If we want to be able to pick suspects, we can't have people shutting down our proposals without having different people offered instead. So far, we've gotten pretty much nowhere. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 02 2011 08:08 wherebugsgo wrote: Yes. For this reason I think we should put equal votes on 3 players, but that's really unlikely to happen; I don't think the town is able to coordinate to that extent (prove me wrong, bitches) The only thing that can screw with us is pious voters. However, we can make this happen. I also think it's worth it to focus on 3 targets at once and then get them all to 4-5 votes so that the likelihood of us hanging a mafia on day 1 are higher. We can't guarantee a mafia lynch, but we can definitely increase our odds. The downside to this is that if we pick 3 town to lynch, the roleblocker can fuck with us by roleblocking a vote on the "scummiest" player. The next day we might fall into a trap of lynching that guy just because he escaped the lynch. I say let's do it, but just be really careful about the types of conclusions we draw from it. Ooooooook I understand now. At first I was very confused about the plan. But now it doesn't seem like a terrible idea. We definitely have to be very careful about it before and after though. Which means we need 3 focus targets. I think at this point Varp, sinani, and Kenpachi would be my 3, although nothing definitive. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 02 2011 08:22 sandroba wrote: @wbg nah, the rb mechanic + no flips will generate a huge amount of misinformation if we do that. Palmar what is your reasoning on varpulis? Care to point out why he is scummy, I only see people pushing this wagon nitpicking on every single post he makes. Show me some actual evidence. I tried doing a little reaserch on jcarl and couldn't find a single game he is scum. Care to point me to one if it actually exists JC? The reason I went through all this trouble is because in his previous post, despite not seeing any point to my sugestion, he still behaves nicely and obliges. From what I've read from the previous games he played as town his ideas regarding what is scummy and regarding lurkers are pretty much the same, but I'd like to see a game he played as scum to draw further conclusions. Aww that means a lot that you cared that much! ;P As far as I can remember, I don't think I've had a game where I've been scum (aside from IRC mafia). The reason I went through all this trouble is because in his previous post, despite not seeing any point to my sugestion, he still behaves nicely and obliges. I am capable of being objective. I can understand multiple sides of an issue, despite my own bias. I can admit when I'm wrong. That being said, the more I think about this focus 3 targets thing, the more uneasy I am about it. You're right that the no flip will seriously hurt us. Also, the pious could hurt or help us. Nobody has any idea who the pious is, including scum. So the scum can't roleblock the double vote reliably. Focusing on just two will prevent the scum from roleblocking and doing a switch on us, AND it will keep the pious vote from messing with us. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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oh of course, silly me. totally convinced now... | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 02 2011 09:20 Kenpachi wrote: bro, I dont recall playing with you 3 so i asked for a general gist of your gameplay from previous games I misunderstood what you were asking, my mistake. But how about you actually do something productive for the town? I might be more inclined to believe you if you were actually trying to help. Every post you've made has been largely unhelpful. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 02 2011 10:12 sinani206 wrote: That's Kenpachi for you. Also, who would've guessed: sandroba has a plan. And I see no gaping issues with this plan, except for the fact that we can't decide who the three candidates should be. If we can actually find three people who are scummy, then we will be able to use the plan to our advantage. But is it really worth our time to agree on everyone's top three? I like how sinani has completely disregarded the fact that I think he could be scum. Also, he ignored the fact that we already figured picking 3 candidates wouldn't work. He has contributed very little. Currently he's feeling the scummiest to me. #vote sinani206 | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 02 2011 12:03 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm thinking it might be beneficial to get the holy priests (if we have one/more) to resurrect immediately before the mafia have a chance to capitalize. But...I'm not really sure because there'll be two dead thanks to the lynches and then probably at least two thanks to the mafia kills. And what if we have the holy priest rez immediately, and we ended up lynching scum? Then we have living scum still, and that hurts us. The only problem is that we need to get information from the coroner eventually. That'll probably be the hardest part, IMO, especially if the coroner dies someday and we don't know it, he'll miss a check. The coroner basically is the most important role (that we know of) in this game right now. You're right, and I've been thinking about this for a while. With lynches being no-flip, it's going to be very difficult for the town to get any information at all. Whichever player(s) is/are the coroner(s) needs to be very careful. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 02 2011 12:20 wherebugsgo wrote: The only comforting thing to me is that the mafia don't know who they've killed anymore than we do. Unless, of course, there's some sort of mafia role checker. Which would suck balls. Well they certainly know they're hitting townies. Whether or not their blue or green they may not know, but they still know a hell of a lot more than we do or will. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 02 2011 12:30 wherebugsgo wrote: Right, I meant more as in, if they want to deny us whatever information we ARE getting, they have no ability to aim directly for a coroner or whatever without actually having a role detection role themselves. I'm pretty sure iGrok said that mafia can choose to hit mafia too, so that might fuck us with respect to who we should revive, as well. I'd say, if there's a scummy player around who we plan on lynching, but he dies due to a mafia hit, he should get checked anyway and then if he gets revived we should examine him carefully. Mafia can take advantage of the fact that they know alignments by killing their own players and tricking us into reviving them and keeping them around. Yes, iGrok did say mafia can kill their own. And I was thinking the exact thing you said. But even if scum can't hit our blues reliably, how will the town get information? I'm afraid all the information is going to sit with our coroner. This will certainly be tricky. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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No, daykiller is unlynchable. + Show Spoiler + On September 02 2011 19:12 Palmar wrote: @Bumatlarge: I already figured everything out. @OriginalName: That's surprisingly bad, you should know Kenpachi always claims town. So, I think it's unanimous that Varpulis should hang today. Everything from his apathetic "nice tunnel" defense to trying to deflect the lynch onto a random lurker screams that he should be lynched. He insists we should be scumhunting yet has not provided any scumhunting of his own, aside from "Kenpachi lurks, let's lynch". sinani206 is a weird one, thing is even when he's town he is always up for lynching because he just posts incredibly scummy. He's also a favourite candidate for scum to try to lynch, but it's very hard to make the distinction of scum and well... townies who just think he's scummy. I'd rather not lynch sinani206 today. redFF is posting in a manner that seems very fluent and unrestricted. This is unusual for him, although he's been known to make one-liners as scum too. Problem is that I feel like he's not making careful one-liners, but extremely dangerous one-liners. I think lynching redFF would be a really bad idea today. chaos13 is another person that feels really open in his posting. He's slowly settling into what I'd consider his town meta of asking questions and being completely unable to find scum unless everyone is holding hands and being happy. I think he'd be one of the worst lynches today. I think Wherebugsgo is town. jcarlsonv also looks like he's town, I was sceptical at first, but all his posting looks like someone who is just earnestly trying to contribute to the discussion. I'd not be cool with lynching Sandroba right now, no reason to lynch one of our best town players, especially when he seems to be putting effort into reading past games to form his opinions, I need to keep an eye on him though, because if he starts being wrong I should get him lynched. Bumatlarge: I don't like this post, I don't like it at all: ##Unvote varpulis I still find it likely that varpulis can be scum (redff has made good points), but in the event that he is not, I would look heavily into these people, in order of scuminess IMO. This is so weird, if you think it's likely he is scum, why do you feel necessary to coddle up to redFF's arguments, yet try to find some other lurkers, your list almost smells of "Let's make a list of people who are scummy and see which one picks off". Which is basically fishing for town opinion. Thing is, it's ok not thinking Varpulis is scum, like, there's nothing wrong with being wrong, but the way you present this idea is... not something I like. I think you could possibly be a good lynch candidate today. Ace and Jackal are just derps at this point, Jackal kindly provided us with a useless post about double lynches, and Ace is roleplaying. They've provided nothing that can be used to determine their alignment.. I expect a contribution from them or we get our daykiller guy to gun one of them down. OriginalName is someone I'd strongly consider for scumderp, because he's just playing uncharacteristically bad. He's the person of the three I feel least strongly about though, if we can I'd lynch Varp and Bum. And finally Drazerk and Sknowman, along with that Kenpachi person. Nothing to read, nothing to analyse. With Jackal and Ace that means there are in my opinion 5 complete null-tells in the game, and some of them are bound to be town. Those of you who are town really need to start posting so we can determine your alignment. So without further ado, I think Kenpachi stupid and bad lynch. I think the race should be between: Bumatlarge Varpulis OriginalName So, i'm asking you all to take a bit of a leap of faith here, consider switching your votes to one of these guys, because any vote outside the three is going to be a wasted vote. Ideally, we will have at least 5-6 votes on Bumatlarge and Varpulis each, but if someone feels one of my reads is blatantly wrong, I present a third option. I'm going to switch my vote to Bumatlarge to get the ball rolling there. Anyone voting outside of those three should do one of the following: a) Move your vote to one of the three. b) Explain why the lynch is a bad lynch. ##Unvote Varpulis ##Vote Bumatlarge @Palmar: The only person on your list I don't feel get too much of a scum read on right now is ON. However, my personal scummiest read is on sinani, so I'm going to leave my vote on him for now. I want to see how this day unfolds more to see if I get other scummy reads. Person to watch out for: Drazerk He's made two posts this game: On September 01 2011 22:00 Drazerk wrote: Thought this game was going to start tonight >.> only scanned through the thread so far but I have FoS on Varp / 206 Ill post a bit more later but those are my main suspects for now. On September 02 2011 18:48 Drazerk wrote: For all the people voting kenpachi, I really don't know why we are dealing with him on day 1 And your wondering why he claims green? He has done it every single game he has played. so no I don't think there is enough reason to vote for ken but I do believe 206 is scum, people are claiming kenpachi is useless but 206 has been a lot worse so far. #Vote: sinani206 Both have been pretty contentless. At this point I'm not sure how to read him, but I'm definitely watching him. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 03 2011 02:28 bumatlarge wrote: I don't think it smells like that at all. I voted varpulis, same time as redff, then a bunch of people jumped on it, including you, with very little reason. In fact you have very little reason voting me here as well, which is extraordinarily unlike the palmar I know. This has to be the most passive thing I have ever seen you done. If you vote me for reason, you don't go ahead and do the exact same thing yourself. See bolded sentence. And sandroba is just as bad, sayng I haven't been pro-town, when he clearly has not read through my unlynchable idea by thinking the coroner uses his power by day. That's why we discuss and figure everything out now day 1, where there is little to derail, because day 1 conversations are hard to move. I feel this game should garner the same discussion a PYP game would. The High Priest should use his power everyday I'll explain why. But first we need to ask more green questions I think. There is a lot of stuff we could miss just by ignorance. iGrok, when two revivers (priest or necro) target the same person, is there a precedence given? Also, can you add all questions answered to the last of the OP posts? If it's not too much trouble. I'm fairly certain it will revive according to when the PM is sent, but it will have to be confirmed. IF A HIGH PRIEST CAN RESURRECT A PERSON RATHER THEN THEM BEING A ZOMBIE THEN THAT IS GOOD. Denying zombies will be a key job for the high priest, as a necromancer will not just revive dead teammates but also any townies he can whenever he can. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. Day 1 is where the chances are higher to do this, 50%. I'll gladly take criticism or argue the point. Day1 is usually a mislynch and a double lynch on day 1 is unlikely to be successful. We will undoubtedly lynch a townie, you can't argue that. So resurrect the one you think is town as fast as you can, and hopefully you stop the zombification. Even if they target different people, the zombie does a have a time limit and the resurrected person does not. Most likely mafia will revive the less pro-town of the two, and high priest the more pro-town. Ok now you can yell at me for speculating. There is a lot of WIFOM in this topic as to who would revive who, so please refrain from using that as a counter-point. Also Ace please post I know you figured some stuff out too, probably more then I did. From the OP: If two players try to bring the same player back to life, whichever message I receive earlier will correlate to how the player is brought back to life (reanimated/resurrected). The Coroner Ability returns information privately to the coroner. Resurrected players retain their powers, as do Reanimated players Daywalkers may be killed by night kills. They do not get "reloaded" if returned to life after using their power. I agree with the High Priest resurrecting someone everyday. When the Necromancer reanimates a zombie, they count as scum KP. So, if they reanimate a townperson, that will make their KP stronger, and we could very quickly get screwed. The Reanimations die in 3 days, while the Resurrections last til they're killed again. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 03 2011 03:27 wherebugsgo wrote: I'll be honest, all the current lynch targets suck. If we have only 6 hours left in the day, we have a problem. We need to concentrate our votes very soon. If we're making the first day 72 hours (which I would prefer) we'll get some more information and we can make a better educated guess at who we should be lynching, as time isn't so crucial. On that note: how much time is left in the day? if we're all in support of making the first say 72 hours I say we do it. It'll give us 24 hours more to deduce and think clearly about this. I'm going to assume this won't happen, seeing as probably 90% of the players posted during Day 1. But what will actually happen if we delay it another 24 hours? I'm not sure we're going to learn much. That gives scum more time to sway votes while town still has no information at all. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 03 2011 03:49 jcarlsoniv wrote: I'm going to assume this won't happen, seeing as probably 90% of the players posted during Day 1. But what will actually happen if we delay it another 24 hours? I'm not sure we're going to learn much. That gives scum more time to sway votes while town still has no information at all. EBWOP: I mean, the vast majority of players posted in the first 24 hours of the day, while we have gotten posts from everyone Day 1. I see no reason iGrok would actually delay it. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 03 2011 04:00 OriginalName wrote: If a Necromancer and a High Preist res the same target which one takes priority? sigh...I really wish people would read the thread... Quoted this half a page up, but apparently I need to quote it for everyone. If two players try to bring the same player back to life, whichever message I receive earlier will correlate to how the player is brought back to life (reanimated/resurrected). The Coroner Ability returns information privately to the coroner. Resurrected players retain their powers, as do Reanimated players Daywalkers may be killed by night kills. They do not get "reloaded" if returned to life after using their power. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 03 2011 04:24 Varpulis wrote: Palmar 1 -chaos13 - Varpulis 1 - - - -Kenpachi Kenpachi 2 -bumatlarge -OriginalName redFF 0 - bumatlarge 2 -Palmar -sinani206 jcarlsoniv 1 -Sknowman Chaos13 1 -Jackal58 I count 8 votes, which means almost half the town hasn't voted yet. This is not accurate. I know at least myself and Draz have voted for sinani. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 03 2011 04:36 Varpulis wrote: did you ad "##" to the beginning of your vote? because if not i didn't find it. I did a search for "##" with the thread set to all. Ah, sorry, I only did one #. I'll make sure to do two from now on. Interestingly, Draz also only did one #... | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 03 2011 05:03 OriginalName wrote: NOTE THE BOLDED/ITALICS/UNDERLINED SECTION OF THAT -_- What would you like us to note about that? | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 03 2011 05:41 Kenpachi wrote: lol this might be a stupid question but can the coroner check more than 1 corpse a day? Coroner Can look at a corpse and determine alignment and role. May be used any time, and will instantly return the information (as soon as I get the pm). I was about to get real mad at people not reading the thread again, but that description seems rather ambiguous. I'm going to assume it's once per day, but clarification would be nice. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 03 2011 06:32 iGrok wrote: There will be no vote count. I will tell you who has voted for who. Jackal58 =====chaos13 RedFF=======Varpulis Sknowman====jcarlsoniv Kenpachi=====Varpulis wherebugsgo==OriginalName sinani206=====bumatlarge Drazerk=======sinani206 jcarlsoniv=====sinani206 Varpulis======sinani206 Ace==========chaos13 Original Name==Kenpachi Palmar========bumatlarge chaos13=======Palmar bumatlarge====Kenpachi Sandroba======bumatlarge Ok, well from this we can still gather a table. This is (I'm sure) not 100% accurate because of pious and/or any other hidden voting mechanics. chaos13 (2) Jackal58 Ace Varpulis (2) RedFF Kenpachi jcarlsoniv (1) Sknowman OriginalName (1) wherebugsgo bumatlarge (3) sinani206 Palmar Sandroba sinani206 (3) Drazerk jcarlsoniv Varpulis Kenpachi (2) OriginalName bumatlarge Palmar (1) chaos13 | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 03 2011 06:52 redFF wrote: THIS GUY IS SO MAFIA ITS FUCKING RIDICULOUS HOLY SHIT WHY IS HE NOT LEADING VOTES BY A COLOSSAL MARGIN. It might have something to do with the fact that your main argument for why he's scum is "ZOMG HES SO SCUM". That tends not to be very effective. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 03 2011 07:23 sandroba wrote: Ace/jackal/ON/chaos/jacarl can you please switch vote to someone more meaningful? If things stay like they are as of now mafia pretty much gets to choose who they lynch. @Ace after all that talk about how bad it is for people to get lynched with 3 votes, won't you do anything to stop that from happening? like pushing your candidate or voting on one of the leading ones? Why is that? You sound like you have information that the rest of us don't have. Maybe the scum list, perhaps... I'm going out to dinner. I'm not changing my vote. I'm getting scummy reads off of sinani, and my vote is staying there. I'll be reading and keeping up on my phone. | ||
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On September 03 2011 08:54 Sknowman wrote: For all of those calling me lucky and useless, I'm in China so my timezone is completely different to all of you. I sleep when you wake. I am still sticking with my vote on jcarlwateverthefuckhisnameis. The lynches all seem pretty weak to me. It's fine that you suspect me, whatever. But it's clear I won't be lynched today. Sandobra is right that you should put your vote where it would be actually useful, instead of increasing scum control. | ||
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On September 03 2011 09:02 chaos13 wrote: So in other words you think mafia are all on the big(gest) wagons right now? That's not at all what he's saying. When all the votes are this close, if mafia has a roleblocker, they can null a vote and decide who gets lynched. | ||
jcarlsoniv
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On September 03 2011 09:10 chaos13 wrote: wat. Mafia can block votes?? brb, re-reading OP It's quite possible. But why would you want to risk it? | ||
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On September 03 2011 09:23 OriginalName wrote: We dont know that for sure. Settle down there is probably more going on right now than is clear to us. Im pretty sure mafia kp was 3. I figured there might be 5 or 6 mafia in the game. So, assuming I was right, that means we either hit 1 or 0 scum with lynches. I'm hoping we hit 1. The double lynch plus no nights into 3 mafia kp makes deaths very fast. We can assume 2 will come back today with resurrect + reanimate. Idk, it's all kind of overwhelming... | ||
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On September 03 2011 10:00 sandroba wrote: WTF? 5-6? This is no flip, man. Mafia has 3 members most likely and 2kp, probably with a 1 shot minion. I suppose...I guess I'm just used to bigger games, and this is the first no flip game I've played. Alright, so let's assume I was overestimating (a much safer assumption). Are we sure bum wasn't sniped by a vig? If he was, maybe his death would register before the lynch? I'm going to have to take a bit to weigh possibilities once I get home. | ||
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On September 03 2011 23:58 chaos13 wrote: Oh look, somebody is defending WBG by means of deflecting attention away from his lynch. Not only that, they're doing it by asking someone to ignore an analysis on a player. You know scum, just because it's a no flip game doesn't mean you don't have to put effort in. sinani206 Wherebugsgo sandroba Ok, assuming there are 3 scum, this would mean the mafia kp is 2. 3 died last night. So that means someone died by a way other than mafia kp. This is either the minion shot or the vig shot. I'm going to assume the vig didn't shoot already, but it's possible. If sinani had been scum, this would reduce the mafia numbers to 2, and thus, their kp to 1. Chances are very very high that sinani was not scum. | ||
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On September 04 2011 00:22 Ace wrote: impossible. If sinani is scum then their KP wouldn't be reduced the same night because that would be bad modding or a totally different mechanic we aren't aware of. Scum don't lose KP on a night one of their members die, it always goes into effect for the next night. I would want confirmation on this from iGrok. Cuuuuuuz that's stupid. If we killed a scum, that sucks for them, but we killed a scum. The rules say mafia kp is n/2. If we lynch a scum, that reduces scum numbers. | ||
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On September 04 2011 00:51 jcarlsoniv wrote: I would want confirmation on this from iGrok. Cuuuuuuz that's stupid. If we killed a scum, that sucks for them, but we killed a scum. The rules say mafia kp is n/2. If we lynch a scum, that reduces scum numbers. [g]Balls, forgot green text. WTB iGrok.[/g] | ||
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On September 04 2011 00:51 jcarlsoniv wrote: [g]Balls, forgot green text. WTB iGrok.[/g] derp WTB iGrok | ||
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On September 04 2011 03:48 bumatlarge wrote: Just so we can be clear here redff, you checked both? I believe you, but I know the OP specifically says a corpse. Can you clarify the differences between coroner as it states in the OP and coroner's apprentice? I'm not confused that he would be able to check either varp or sinani. I am, however, somewhat skeptical that he would be able to check both at the same time. Maybe it works differently in no-flip, but it seems odd. If this is the case, why didn't red check all 5 that died, and then tell us what we lost town-wise. Coroner checks alignment AND role. I doubt that all 5 that died were green. We must have lost something important. And why wouldn't red want to know the roles and alignments of all 5 that died last night? Also, "Coroner's Apprentice" sounds...made up and convenient for him. FoS red On September 04 2011 05:36 wherebugsgo wrote: Oops I messed that up. Let me redo that: Voting bumatlarge sandroba Palmar Voting OriginalName redFF wherebugsgo bumatlarge Voting redFF Ace Voting wherebugsgo chaos13 kenpachi I forgot bum voted ON. Oh BTW point of my voting situation was to show that votes are really split right now and that helps mafia. We need people to vote bum/ON. 8 people have voted already and the two who haven't are jcarl, ON. jcarl needs to vote for bum and ON will probably throw his vote again. If Ace doesn't switch to ON/bum then I think he's certainly mafia. I haven't voted yet because I don't like to vote in the first half of the day on principal. I like to watch how things play out for the whole day, and make my decision in the second half. I do find bum pretty suspicious, although I am worried about WIFOM in sandroba's RB. It is entirely possible that the mafia would roleblock one of their own (sandroba) in order to make it seem like bum is scum. I will hold my vote for now, but I will vote early on tomorrow so that there is plenty of time for everyone to see the vote and discuss the situations. | ||
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On September 04 2011 07:18 bumatlarge wrote: They wouldn't block sandroba if he was mafia, they would just not do anything. It's more likely that he would claim that if they didn't have a blocker at all. Very nice, though perhaps it might have been better to wait a little later in the day for someone to make an odd claim. I'm not really fearing lynched now, because I'm fairly certain chaos or ON are scum, so it's worth it. Shame redff will probably die tomorrow, alignment seems to be key this game, and I think we can assume redff is the last blue that can check it. Did you get alignment or roles at all as well? What? Why? You don't think it's possible at all that they would incriminate someone AND seemingly town-ify (that's not a word...) a person by role blocking sandroba? And am I really the only one who finds red's claim odd? | ||
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On September 04 2011 09:31 Ace wrote: If you are sure no Townies shot last night, then the 3 dead players were all killed by Scum. Hence, you'd check them to confirm them being Town like you said. Lets keep the logic train going here. The only reason you'd check Sinani or Varp is to see if they were Scum lynched by the Town. Right? That means you'd speak out if you found them to be Scum. But you found Sinani to be Town. Why would you speak out on this when I already showed a way to not reveal yourself. You said it yourself - the real Coroner died. You just saw 3 people get capped. Why reveal yourself? It doesn't add up on both accounts. I dont believe you are this stupid. You would have to know you are going to be killed if this holds, ending the game for the Town. You'd die, and even if Sinani is Coroner he'd die immediately. Between the 2 of you, you would only get off 3 checks by Day 3. Game over. I can't take your claim seriously. The real Coroner would not Counter Claim in this situation because it's not LYLO so it would be dumb. A Real Cop doesn't CC Scum claiming Cop unless the Town is seriously buying it and will lynch a Townie. No one is getting lynched over your claim so the Coroner has no reason to Counter Claim. Or he's dead. Was about to post this. I'm glad I'm not the only one who found his claim bullshit. @red: Why would you check the lynches? We knew they were both town. Otherwise the mafia kp would have been reduced. The 3 night kills do not guarantee at all that the mafia only killed town. These players can be resurrected, and thus killing one of their own would make the town unsure of the dead players' alignments. | ||
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On September 04 2011 07:05 redFF wrote: im secret coroners apprentice, i can check twice a day. On September 04 2011 09:24 redFF wrote: lol... im a back up coroner, i have 2 checks, and i can use them both at any time. thats it. why did i check the lynches???? because i'm fairly sure no townies shot last night, so all i would be checking is town players, whereas the lynched players have a sense of uncertainty to them, while im fairly sure all night deaths were town. why did i reveal my checks??? because i only have 2 and used them both. Do you really need to know their roles ace? all that seems like is role fishing, revive sinani. i feel like i've answered your questions, don't you think the regular coroner would have counterclaimed me??? i go back to vt if the coroner returns to life. On September 04 2011 09:34 redFF wrote: 2 checks i can use both during a day. i was trying to reveal as little as possible but then i decided full disclosure was best option. On September 04 2011 10:29 redFF wrote: i have no more checks after i used my 2. I really feel that you shouldn't be contradicting yourself. You have two checks per day, but you only have two checks! Wooooo yeah makes sense... You also keep saying that varp and sinani got lynched because they played stupidly and got themselves lynched. You're being a total hypocrite. Ace is right, if your claim truly is correct, you will have lost the game for town by giving up "both" of the coroners. You've already gone full retard mode, doubt you can work your way out of it. ##vote redFF I see no reason to hold my vote until tomorrow. | ||
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On September 04 2011 12:12 bumatlarge wrote: I think I've got this game figured out, I've read into the thread alot and it's a bit of a puzzle with some missing pieces, but the main elements are there. Sinani, redff and Sandroba are scum -redff or sandroba has a role that let's them know a coroner died or that there are none left alive -in exchange, there is no roleblocker in the game. -this alone let's mafia safely fakeclaim, and accuse someone heavily based on one of the members being blocked. I do not believe that they intended to do this right after seeing the day 1 results, but seeing sinani lynched instead of me, I think they realized that a pious man had voted on sinani and screwed them over. Sandroba claimed a roleblock to keep me as the lynch for this day, and redff claimed coroner's apprentice to try to persuade the HP to bring back sinani, rather then just zombifying him. HP, DO NOT BRING BACK SINANI. Bring back any other person from that day, preferably a mafia kill. I can back up all this based on these three players behavior. 3 kills went out last night, and as far as I can tell, we don't have non-day vigis. That kills were all low activity posters, and I am fairly certain they were all town. Jackal He put his vote on chaos13 and afk'd apparently, I'm not sure about chaos, but he has reasoning similar to my own, so I don't think this is a heavy link but we'll keep chaos' name in case it pops up. Sknowman Again, very lurkerish, but he put his vote on jcarl, for a single post, then kept it there, even at the end. Just like chaos, I'll keep his name in mind. Drazerk Voted sinani. Why kill these people? I'll tell you, they have little influence upon being resurrected. The deapool to pick from here is extremely limited if you go on just there play in this game. Mafia wants to limit the good choices and leave the priest picking at scraps while the living players are more active and therefore uncheckable. But oh look, to ease the HP's troubled mind, redff comes soaring in and claims he checked TWO people (I have absolutely zero fucking idea why), and you should bring back sinani of the two. I believed him, because the claim was outrageous, a coroner could counterclaim him, and I thought he was inferring that sinani was a blue role of some sort. But Bum, you are probably scum because sandroba said he was RB'd which means you're scum! Which transistions nicely into our next segment... Sandroba I didn't really have too many qualms about this dude, until just before the first day ended, he seemed to be hell bent on finding scum and I was content to take his criticisms on how I start my days with a cup of folgers, and how he would rather prance around when I had few reads aside from varpulis and kenpachi. Until this post. Wow. Late into the day he wants to have a switch from a scummy person onto me with an absurd reason. Needless to say that struck a wrong chord. I told him what the fuck and voted varpulis, my own effort in consolidating votes, because like hell was I going to get lynched instead of varpulis. Sandroba has never voted redff, despite him GUNNING for me when redff have had very similar actions. Sandroba is defending everything redff does, yet even when he sees errors, he ignores them. Sandroba has never considered redff to be scum this entire game. That and calling the sinani lynch bad, it makes it pretty clear that sandroba knows something in this game that the rest of us don't. He has persisted in calling any speculation I gave about the set-up anti-town, because he doesn't want us to talk about it. Please don't sheep behind this guy. Oh what? The now the roleblocker comes into play here! It's funny that Jcarl brings up the "more information" tidbit, and you immediately hint that you do indeed have more information. Right here you are GUARANTEEING that scum has a roleblocker, without assessing that perhaps whoever does get saved from a vote will have alot of suspicion thrown upon them? Funny how that doesn't get mentioned when you are trying to push the lynch, but after it's 100% evidence. Case in point. Sinani was the minion most likely. Perhaps they don't even have a necromancer either? Also, sandroba confirms we have a pious who voted sinani. I still find it hard to believe that everything redff has done is intentional. Claiming the apprentice is one thing but then saying he gets two checks seems EXTREMELY odd. I don't understand why he didn't just say sandroba was town, or even that varpulis was scum. His posts don't give me much so until someone else finds anything, I'll keep him secondary to sandroba in my list. Sinani was very self explanatory, and redff did not keep his vote on him when it mattered. redFF needs to be gotten rid of tonight. I highly doubt town will be able to not lynch me, because of what sandroba said, but I'm confident that we can win when two scum are dead. Once we get rid of sandroba, I can guarentee the game will be over. ##Unvote ##Vote redff The only downside to your story is that if sinani was scum, the mafia kp would have been reduced before the night kills went out, so only 2 should have died at night... | ||
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On September 04 2011 12:53 redFF wrote: i'd prefer not to tell the whole thread sinani's role but i think it's fairly obvious considering everything that i have said up to this point. as to the whole roleblocker minion wifom thing i have no need to think about or try to reason with that because its all wifom/pointless trying to explain night kills/where kp comes from when the important thing in this game is scumhunting. "I don't wanna say anything about his role, but based upon what I've said, you should already know." You know what sucks about that red? The scum (your) team knows more than we do. So anything that we should already know, the scum (your) team knows too. So what have you done? Imagine this from a town point of view. You're making it quite obvious that you want us to think sinani was coroner. You want him revived. ...k? So he gets revived today, and then sniped tonight. So what has he done for us? Jack shit. | ||
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I still find red's claim odd, but the more I think about it, the more ace's scenario just doesn't sit right with me. In a game of no-flip, it seems highly plausible that there would be a back up coroner. Otherwise, if the coroner gets sniped first day, we're nearly completely fucked. I'll acknowledge that I haven't been playing very well. I'm not new to mafia, just rusty, and new to no-flip. I'm not used to not learning anything definitive from a lynch. I'm going to switch my vote to ON. I don't like how he had a useless vote day 1 despite being there for the day switch. He has been lurking a lot, even when addressed directly. @WBG, when I said the only downside to bum's story was that sinani was pretty much guaranteed town, I meant that since his entire theory was based off that, the rest couldn't be true. ##unvote ##vote OriginalName | ||
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On September 05 2011 02:49 chaos13 wrote: redFF - I'm just gonna write as I think and see what conclusion I come to. Sorry if this gets a little roundabout or spammy. There have already been inconsistencies pointed out in his admittedly strange claim. He has only two checks, then he has two per day, and my personal favorite "Coroner must have died because I checked people." If your claim were true I am more than sure that iGrok would have sent you a PM saying "The coroner has died, you have become the new coroner, etc." So I don't believe his claim. Does this make him mafia? Not necessarily. If you're town, I certainly hope you have a good reason for lying. I want to save everyone some time here and tell you not to bother trying to get him to clear up his claim. He will stick to what he's said 100% despite all the contradictions in it. I recall an insane game I played with him on another site where he was mafia, fake claimed emperor with a ton of inconsistencies, lies, and contradictions and stubbornly refused to admit defeat when I called him out on every single one of them. From this I know that he's not afraid to fake claim as mafia. The problem is that I can't see the rest of his play coming from a mafia perspective in a normal game. But this is not a normal game. In other words, mafia have no fear of pushing a horrible lynch, because they don't have to be accountable for it. Looking at it that way, red's pushing for Varp D1 makes perfect sense as mafia. Conclusion - I'm not gonna waste more time typing out my thoughts here. redFF is mafia and should be killed asap. And just when I thought the town was starting to have some cohesion... | ||
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On September 05 2011 04:13 wherebugsgo wrote: fuckin dilemma we have here... Is there any way we can lynch both ON and bum? Hmm...I don't think so... Although, if none of them switch off, it very strongly shows they are scum. | ||
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On September 05 2011 04:05 wherebugsgo wrote: Voting situation: Voting bumatlarge sandroba Palmar wherebugsgo Voting OriginalName jcarlsoniv chaos13 redFF kenpachi Voting redFF OriginalName Ace bumatlarge I have an idea that could be useful. Jcarl, vote for bum. sandroba, vote for ON. If mafia intends to roleblock a voter to save bum/ON they'll roleblock someone on the bum list. This way if one of me/jon/palmar gets roleblocked we can claim it. Sandroba has already been roleblocked so we can potentially confirm him by putting him on the list with four people on it, AKA on ON. Does this make sense? This eliminates some of the WIFOM if someone else actually gets roleblocked. Still want this to happen? I understand the motives. It's to check if sandroba will get RBd again? Or if someone does get RBs it'll sho it wasn't a lie from sandroba? I'm ok with doing this, just need confirmation from san. | ||
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On September 05 2011 04:30 chaos13 wrote: What does everyone think of the possibility of Kenpachi being scum over ON or bumatlarge? I'm not sure, but it wouldn't surprise me. To me, lurking in mafia is like cheating. So I hate people who lurk in general. Especially when their posts are largely useless. | ||
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On September 05 2011 05:13 redFF wrote: daywalker should mos def should ace If vig is still alive after last night =/ | ||
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On September 05 2011 07:44 Ace wrote: You're reading too much into that. Stop it. Funny, if someone else had said that, you would have torn them apart. Must be nice to be above the law. | ||
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Did not expect 3 revivals though. At least one of them is the zombie, so if we only hit 1 scum yesterday, mafia kp is back up to 2. If both of the lynches yesterday were scum, then mafia kp is still at 1. | ||
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On September 05 2011 09:37 Jackal58 wrote: I agree with all of this. This leaves Drazerk as a Zombie. I'd say Daywalker shoot him, we lynch Bum and Ace. If we are wrong on one of them we should still destroy scum KP. Why isn't it possible that you're the zombie? Or even sinani? | ||
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On September 05 2011 09:42 Jackal58 wrote: Because I was told when I died I would be ressed Ok, I missed that. On September 05 2011 09:42 Drazerk wrote: Well it should be pretty obvious that scum revived me... Kill me now to reduce their KP Scum could have also revived sinani. It is stated that people who come back from the dead still have their powers, and they aren't told how they are revived. They keep their old alignment, but count towards mafia kp as well. So you could be the zombie just as easily as sinani. Unless I'm missing something. | ||
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On September 05 2011 09:46 Jackal58 wrote: Yes. Kind of. I block all visits. My spread wings prevent the entry of all evil doers. But...you still died? lol On September 05 2011 09:46 chaos13 wrote: holy shit. I see nothing in the OP that answers my question. From OP Mafia KP is N/2 (rounded up). Zombies count towards KP. | ||
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On September 05 2011 09:53 iGrok wrote: QFT. Everyone go back and read the OP please. In its entirety. Now do it again. I've had to answer one too many questions about this game, and its starting to piss me off. Particularly when I realize that you HAVEN'T read the OP. It even says: There are special rules. Read this. This setup is intentionally confusing. But there are some things that I made sure to lay out in the OP, to help you figure out whats going on. I like setup analysis and turning games into logic puzzles a lot - and thats important in this game. But you still need to scumhunt, and in fact, since you DON'T KNOW everything thats going on in the game, and I TOLD YOU THAT YOU DON'T, scumhunting may be even more important than usual. So fucking do it. After this point, if someone asks me something that is clearly in the OP, you'll get a warning in the ban thread. If you keep at it, you'll get a ban. Read the thread before signing up for a game. *hug* I read the OP, iGrok. I hope that makes you feel better <3 | ||
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On September 05 2011 09:55 Jackal58 wrote: I agree. Drazerk is not lynch bait. Anybody that votes for him is scum or dumb. He is a good day vig shot though. Nothing personal Drazerk but reading the thread while I was dead leads me to the conclusion that sinani was ressed and you are reanimated. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see that the vig is already dead. I'm assuming he would have shot Ace yesterday if he was still alive. But I do think you're probably right. Drazerk is more than likely the zombie. But the vig should NOT shoot Drazerk. The reanimated zombies are vets. iGrok, I read through the OP again, and I don't think I saw the answer to this. I know zombies count towards mafia kp. But what if all of the original mafia die and just the zombie is left? Assuming Drazerk was town before his death, he would still be town while being a zombie. So there would be no mafia left? Even though the mafia kp would still technically be 1? | ||
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On September 05 2011 09:57 Jackal58 wrote: I can't protect myself. That would be a cool role though. Claim day 1 and game over. Oh I understand. Did you try to protect someone night 1? | ||
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On September 05 2011 10:05 sandroba wrote: From the OP: "Not all role descriptions are complete." Don't you thinking by now the real coroner would have counter claimed? Also look at the list of players. If you think the scum team consists of redFF and sinani I don't know what to say. Also if the team is me/redFF/sinani why wouldn't we save redFF from the lynch by blocking one of his voters? What about bum's ridiculous claim have you nothing to say about that? If you argue the inhibitor is not present thus he could not be saved and the lynch results were because of pious I ask you to look at the suposedly townie roles because that would make at least 1 priest 1 medic 1 ridic lawyer claim and very likely a coroner since it's no flip. No roleblocker in this setup? I've been roleblocked twice and you are voting for me without any analysis or reasoning. There is simply no way you are town. I don't find bum's claim as ridiculous as you do. I don't necessarily believe his claim, but I have had a sneaking suspicion that I am the pious since the first night. This makes it very difficult for me to decide which one of you to believe. Your arguments against his claim ARE very weak. "Coloring his role green instead of blue, and using the word "are" instead of "is". | ||
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On September 05 2011 10:12 wherebugsgo wrote: Dude you need to read more carefully. Bum was the one who colored his own role green. Also, sandroba is right in that it WAS a scum slip. Lastly, the number of things that have happened kinda don't add up to bum being right about sandroba. If bum and Ace both die tonight and someone dies due to a mafia kill anyway then obviously we need to reevaluate tomorrow, but we're not there yet. It doesn't make sense to value bum's claim when it came at the worst time of day possible (right before lynch). If he actually had pro-town agenda he would've claimed that well earlier in the day, when it would've been possible for us to switch votes off bum and onto a scummier target. Apparently the words "I don't necessarily believe his claim" means nothing. Excuse me for playing the devil's advocate. It helps me think and play out scenarios in my head. When I present a converse scenario, it makes everyone else clarify their points (or yell at me and call me an idiot) to try and convince me. | ||
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On September 05 2011 10:13 chaos13 wrote: Understood iGrok. Thank you very much. Then compromise and vote Ace. We need him gone today too. This I can do. ##vote Ace | ||
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On September 05 2011 12:07 chaos13 wrote: It was me who used colors as a reason for not believing bum's claim. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=257019¤tpage=32#635 My mistake | ||
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On September 05 2011 23:44 chaos13 wrote: As you can see from my vote count above this, there is no way to tell who the pious is, assuming sandroba's being roleblocked is a truthful claim (I see no reason to disbelieve it as of yet). You're right. I just looked through and realized that myself. Kinda sad that it makes me not special =( | ||
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I know I have played poorly this game. I know that if you guys really want to lynch me, you can, and that's fine. But I promise you that you will be wasting a lynch. Ace being village idiot makes sense, but do village idiots usually exist in a game this small? Kenpachu being scum wouldn't surprise me, but if he is, its stupid. Lurkers suck. If he turns out to be scum, then the next time he lurks like this and we think he's scum, but he's town, he'll whine about it. What's the point of lurking? So that you can be like "OH LOOK MY TEAM WON" even though you haven't participated to help the win at all? Nobody likes people like that. | ||
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On September 06 2011 08:58 Ace wrote: See, you guys dont even read the thread. Ok smart guy, tell me this: When did the Town confirm Sinani as town, and how did we do it? Show me. Outline it. I dare you. Assuming mafia had 3 members to start with, then Mafia kp was 2. 3 people died that night. That is mafia kp + minion shot. sinani was lynched. If sinani was scum, then this would have reduced mafia kp to 1 before the mafia kills went out. On September 06 2011 05:03 iGrok wrote: Order is Blocking Effects, Lynches, Killing effects, Other effects. Lynch me if you dare! Sinani is town. I showed you. I outlined it for you. | ||
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Possible. But sandroba made this post that makes it seem like 4 scum would be too mafia favored: On September 06 2011 00:47 sandroba wrote: Let's assume 4 scum for a second. That means if town double mislynch day (which most certainly happened) and seeing it's pretty much proven mafia has a minion that it would make the game from 11/4 day1 to 6/4 day2. That means scum can guarantee a townie lynch day2 by simply voting on the same person. Add to the fact that they have a roleblocker. So that means at best day 3 would be 4/3 + 1 zombie assuming priest ressurects a townie and town actually lynches one scum day2. That means auto win by mafia since they can quickly vote for a townie and rb one of the voters. So if there is 4 scum in this setup that means all they need is a double mislynch day1 to be guaranteed victory baring medic protecting right a lot. Even then it's an almost guaranteed victory because they will always get 1 free kp from the double lynch. That is not a balanced setup so it's almost impossible that the number of scum is not 3. And based off of your post: On September 06 2011 08:58 Ace wrote: sandroba I already explained why Scum can counter claim without fear. I'm probably the only player in TL Mafia history to break multiple setups easily during games - are you REALLY going to argue with this? No one can counter claim because it's a no flip game. This is fucking simple. I'm not going to discuss whether there are 3 or 4, or 7 Mafia because it doesn't matter as much as discussing how the roles possibly work. Something you keep failing to understand. redFF nor Sinani are confirmed town, so you better stop putting words out there like they definitely are. Gee, I wonder why. Pull your head out of your ass and think about it. See, you guys dont even read the thread. Ok smart guy, tell me this: When did the Town confirm Sinani as town, and how did we do it? Show me. Outline it. I dare you. How many no flip games have you ever played in? Tell the truth How many games have you ever played in that you've seen a backup role? Tell the truth Doesn't matter, because the answer is "Less than Ace". Didn't you get roleblocked? Why are you still alive? And why are you so sure Sinani must be town? For someone who has been given a lot of leeway in terms of coming up with plans how could you overlook such a GLARING oversight? This is basic for anyone that's an above average Mafia player and should have been the first thing you noticed if you are as good as some of these scrubs believe you are. Coroner role listed in the OP No flip No Counter Claim ability of any role Proof by death is usually one of the obstacles that stops Mafia from doing too many powerful Gambits. Every good Scum player I've known on various internet forums and irl pretty much agree: No flip helps Scum because of the how hard it is to confirm Townies. Knowing this, most Townies won't just blindly roleclaim in a no flip game as they know there has to be a role or some special mechanic or circumstances for them to be believed. And you expect me to believe redFF or just let it fly because he might be stupid. K. But I've already outlined why 2 players that can't confirm each other or can't be confirmed are possibly Scum. The insistence in denying bumatlarge's claim but taking redFF's claim over his is pretty fishy. But let's get back to the roles. Once again I'm going to quote the OP because thats where anyone thats every played with their heads and broken games before starts. Use whats given to you: iGrok confirmed that some roles are incomplete. The Coroner role may very well have some other options - but that's it. Options. The role explicitly states you can look at a corpse. That means one. redFF somehow looked at 2 corpses. As a back up role. Back up roles can't be more powerful than the original. Then there is this major snag here: A couple of issues. 1.) Why did redFF never claim Apprentice but Sinani did. This was redFF's claim: Apprentice vs Secret Coroner's Apprentice. Different role names. 2.) Now this one is a bit of a flyer because I dont know if iGrok knows about this, but I'm going to assume he does. In majority of games with backups, the original role and the backup either dont know they both exist, or the backup is not self-aware. This is an important caveat of games with back ups because if they both know each other exist they can both claim and prove the other role is legit. This is partially solved by it being a no flip game and having the coroner have to check out the dead claimant. They claimed coroner, oops. The other point is about being self aware, or knowing you are a backup. This can lead to all kinds of stupid shit happening but for the sake of argument lets keep it simple. I was watching redFF's claim very careful and when he claimed apprentice I was waiting to see if he would say he was a normal Townie and then suddenly became back up Coroner. This didn't happen though and made me extra skeptical. The chances of his shoddy role claim, being self-aware, and the original Coroner KNOWING there is a backup would be an amazing set of coincidences. Lets continue. 3.) sinani said he didn't use either of his checks. redFF gets both of them while he died. OK STOP. Once again I'm going to go off on a flyer here but this needs to be taken into context. I dont think iGrok would ever break a role like this. This is the first part of the explanation: Why would he punish the Mafia team like this? The Mafia correctly pops the Coroner on Day 1. The Town gets a back up Coroner who gets a Day 1 and Day 2 check, punishing the Mafia for hitting correctly on the first day. This is somewhat shoddy balance and if this is the case then so be it. So redFF got them both when I died. He only used one, on Varpulis, but he said that he used one on me, too. But the thing is he knew that I was Coroner since he was my apprentice and decided to check someone else.[/quote] If he knew you were the Coroner being your apprentice then the game would be broken. At best, the back up would have a suspicion the real role exists, not the name of the actual player who has the role. That would be absurdly broken. A Police Chief role doesn't know the name of his Detectives precisely because knowing a confirmed innocent while having investigation powers leads to games where Scum get rolled. Second of all, how would you know that redFF's role description allows him to know you are the Coroner? Explain this. Now. So today, when I was revived, I was notified that I only had one check left. So I checked OriginalName, who was/is an inhibitor, to check how accurate the speculative scumteam of ON, bum, and Ace was. Obviously, from my information, it was pretty accurate. What day is this? Day 1: You got 0 checks off Day 2: redFF got an extra check since you died? Day 3: you come back to life, but get one last check Why would iGrok give redFF 2 checks then if you have the chance to come back to life. Once again he'd be punishing the Scum team for performing well. So today, when I was revived, I was notified that I only had one check left. So I checked OriginalName, who was/is an inhibitor, to check how accurate the speculative scumteam of ON, bum, and Ace was. Obviously, from my information, it was pretty accurate. Everyone, vote for Ace and bum. I am much more sure about bum being scum, just because this is the first game I've played with Ace. This is absurdly stupid for reasons I've outlined in past posts but I'll say it again: If ON is truly Scum then how does that implicate bumatlarge and myself? Explain where we are linked together. Prove it instead of just hiding behind speculation. For 2 roles like this to exist in the game AND for you to have foreknowledge of each other, plus the convenience of the checks seems too fishy to me. The fact that you immediately jumped on me for calling this out without even trying to understand the setup, not giving bum's claim serious consideration, glossing over the fact that the OP contradicts what redFF said, the shoddy linking of myself to ON and Bum, oh and one more major point: The game is guaranteed to last at minimum until Day 3. If you die Day 1 and do not get resurrected, then why would redFF lose his checks on Day 2 after using both of them. That just defeats the purpose of being a backup role. For someone who said he claimed because he is now useless this doesn't sit well. Especially since he originally claimed he can check twice per day On September 04 2011 07:05 redFF wrote: im secret coroners apprentice, i can check twice a day. Why did he never explicitly state you are the Coroner when he claimed? How come YOU have knowledge about his role but he never told us. Remember when I chastised redFF for claiming? Why didn't he do a full claim? His claim came in pieces. He never claimed how his role worked all at once and he has not given us Varpulis's role. Why not? Varpulis was town right? So you'd push the revival of the other pro-town player pretty hard right? He hasn't. This just can't all be coincidence can it? All of this? On September 03 2011 06:56 redFF wrote: kk since i have a feeling i will die tonight here is scumreads, in order from scummiest to least scummy(but still scummy) varpulis, sinani, sandroba, originalname, ace(though his posting is getting better), bumatlarge. Don't resurrect varpulis or sinani plz coroner varp. On September 04 2011 05:20 redFF wrote: btw if it isnt obvious i kinda took a step back today because my 2 scummiest reads were both town lol. Amazing how these things work out. [/QUOTE] you seem like a huge advocate for balanced games and get really pissed when set ups venture off the norm. So I'm going to put a little bit of faith in you and ask you: How often do you see no-flip games with 15 people have more than 3 scum? Because sandroba's explanation (which makes sense to me) seems to suggest otherwise. | ||
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On September 06 2011 10:24 Ace wrote: *redFF messed up his claim. Really what this comes down to is: Is redFF really THAT bad of a player that he did not read the OP and think about the overall strategy of the game? I don't usually let people go away with that excuse. @jcarlsoniv: Show me the exact scenario again and order of events. With quotes and everything that proves this. I'm more than happy to, but I'm not sure why what I just said wasn't enough. What do you not understand about my deductive reasoning? Where am I missing something. Show me the hole, and I'll be glad to look for a way to patch it up. | ||
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On September 06 2011 10:59 Ace wrote: I've been thinking about this too, and it also irks me. If we have a Coroner and a backup Coroner then we might also have 2 priests. I don't see why iGrok would give us 2 Coroners when losing the priest is just as bad for the Town if this holds. The thing about revival is that once a dead player comes back to life, he has every incentive to claim knowing he will die again. But no one seems to realize this, or is purposely not mentioning this. Reviving Varpulis is actually the best move the Town can make right now. What would it do for your argument (purely curious) if I were to hypothetically claim HP, and there was another HP claim also? Are you just using it to reinforce your case that there could be 4 scum? | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:22 Ace wrote: Look at the role description for Coroner in the OP. Just read it. Tell me what it means. Coroner Can look at a corpse and determine alignment and role. May be used any time, and will instantly return the information (as soon as I get the pm). It does not say "one per day". | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:27 Ace wrote: partially yes. Lets look at this another way because obviously basing it on whats stated in the OP isn't getting through to some people. Varpulis can not be resurrected. redFF checked the body. Said he Varpulis was Town. Why hasn't he given us Varpulis's role yet? I interpreted that as him being green. Assuming I'm not the pious, which it was shown that I'm not, varp could very well have been the pious. I would assume there's more than only 1 or even 2 greens. | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:31 Ace wrote: what does "look at a corpse" mean? One. A Corpse. Not "a corpse, but 2 if my balls are tingly". Detective: You can investigate a player once per day and get their alignment. Are you honestly confused and think that this means the detective can possibly investigate TWO players? If I give you a hamburger, how many are you holding in your hand? Here would be a hypothetical full role: Coroner Can look at a corpse and know role and alignment. This can happen a total of two times, to be used at any time. Your counter argument used the phrase "once per day". You're the one debating on semantics, but you're also failing at it. | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:51 Ace wrote: Which would mean redFF lied and something isn't adding up here. Sinani started with 2 checks. He could use both in one day. He dies without using any checks. redFF used one on Varp, and then lied and said he used one on Sinani because he knew Sinani was the Coroner anyway. He said he lost both of his checks at this point. Sinani is revived, and uses his check on ON and finds him to be Scum. Ok lets assume all this is true. There is a major snag. Earlier I pointed out that a backup role can not know the name of the player who has the original role. That is just too broken for the Town to have. Even so, lets assume this shit actually went down. Again - pay attention. Sinani said that redFF knew he was the Coroner but lied about using the check. Why oh why does Sinani have information about redFF's role? WHY? Think about it. The Coroner knows his back up. Sinani knows redFF is his back up. The back up knows the Coroner. redFF knows Sinani is the coroner. Hence, they both know that the other is Town aligned!. Perfect. So the Coroner has 2 checks per day. Ace misread the OP. Sinani and redFF both knew about each other's roles at the start of the game and both knew the other was Inncocent. So why did they call each other Scum, push cases against one another, Sinani voted for redFF, and redFF called Sinani one of his top Scum reads. 2 players that knew from the get-go that they were both Innocent and they did this. There's your behavior analysis sandroba. Now bow down to the throne. Fucking rape. Scenario: Sinani knows he has an apprentice, but doesn't know who it is. redFF knows he is an apprentice, but doesn't know who the original is. Once the Day 1 lynches go out, redFF finds out that his master has died. He checks varp (maybe by sheer luck, or he's told that sinani was his master via PM) and finds he wasn't the coroner. By keeping up with the thread, sinani now knows that redFF was his apprentice. This would explain why redFF would push for the lynch on sinani, and then after redFF claimed apprentice, the stories line up. There's your scenario analysis Ace. Now bow down to the scrub, asshole. (Cuz, hey, if Ace is above the courtesy rules, then who's to say that everyone else isn't?) Fucking rape. | ||
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On September 06 2011 12:26 Ace wrote: Sinani just said he didn't even know he had an apprentice jcarl. Flush that crap, thanks. @Sinani: redFF was probably told that but he never said so. If he checks Varpulis and deduces you are the Coroner then why wouldn't he tell the Town Varpulis's role?. Varp can't be revived so holding that information in is now useless. His claim reeks. The second bolded - how would you know redFF was given your name? You just said redFF deduced you are the Coroner so why would he be given your name? You said it yourself - your role PM says exactly what it says in the OP. No where in it does it say anything about giving you extra information. @wherebugsgo: No, we are lynching me today because I really think this is the only shot at winning. I just dont trust most of you. So you know what that shows? Only the first sentence in my scenario was false. I was typing that as sinani answered I guess. My scenario would still hold up. They still wouldn't have known the others' identity day 1. Flush that crap, thanks. | ||
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He already did. Glad you've been reading the thread. + Show Spoiler + lurker | ||
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On September 07 2011 03:46 Kenpachi wrote: hurr i missed it. hurrrr that's cuz you're not doing jack shit On September 07 2011 03:44 sandroba wrote: I actually don't know if 2 necros at the same time is possible, but I can't see where it states it's not. How does it not explain the 3 ressurections? 1)minion hit (jackal - any player who has a role gets ressed a day after despite alignment) 2)new necro (from the OP, when a necro dies another one takes his place) 3)priest @kenapachi Jackal has already roleclaimed. Why do you join games if you are not going to read the thread? Oh nevermind. Sorry, forgot minion hit was ressed a day later. I'm not sure if this can be answered but: (Assuming a necro exists) If the first necro dies, and then gets ressed by the new necro, does the second necro remain a necro along with the original necro? | ||
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On September 07 2011 07:38 Jackal58 wrote: Clarified your clarification I just got home from work. I have about 10 minutes before I leave for bowling. I received a PM telling me my role is apparently imba and I can only visit the living. It originally said all players that may be remaining in the game. And yes you pissed me off. So I said what I was doing. You want me to wait til there is 5 minutes left to tell you like Bum did? You'd call me scum for that too. The more I thought about it on my ride home the more it seemed to me that you are the remaining scum. The only people I ever see work so hard to get a person with a protection role lynched is scum. Your arguments against my role are the same arguments you call Ace "noob" repeatedly for using. You can't have it both ways. Odds are I'll be dead shortly. You don't want to waste a shot on me if you can get me lynched. And ya it's easy to say you'll lynch me tomorrow if the games not over because you know the game won't be over either. I hate making an OMGUS but dude you're scum. And btw Ace isn't scum. He doesn't want to get lynched. He wants scum to shoot him. I'd rather he stayed alive for a while. Oh and if you do want to lynch me don't be last to vote for me because you will die. I'm compelled to tell you that after I have received a vote. I am the Guardian Angel. I didn't write my role. I just got stuck with it. Actually, quite the opposite. Ace told me to leave my vote on him. This makes it apparent that he does wish to be lynched. But this worries me. It doesn't sit right with me. This doesn't feel like Ace scum play as a couple people have said before. But I don't know the likelihood of a 3rd party role in this set up. I'm somewhat inclined to believe Ace's claim of a super awesome power, but at the same time, I don't want to trust it. Not quite sure how to handle it. | ||
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I am disappoint. | ||
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On September 07 2011 10:41 chaos13 wrote: You're forgetting the part where he's lying mafia. Oh, I guess my sarcasm wasn't thick enough. WTB sarcasm font. ##vote OriginalName | ||
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Kenpachi, on the other hand, has done shit all to pretend to try to help. I'd be perfectly happy with him being 2nd lynch, but I just despise lurkers. I can't look too easily cuz im on my phone right now, but we also need to think about the zombie from last night. | ||
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On September 07 2011 20:50 chaos13 wrote: Why exactly are we suspicious of you then? I've got class for a few hours. I'll respond afterwards. | ||
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On September 08 2011 01:32 Drazerk wrote: Personally we should kill the following ON / Jackal / Myself But considering ill die next cycle anyway we should focus on Jackal / ON ##Vote Jackal58 Well, if we survive until next cycle, either ace or bum will have been ressed all we'll have to deal with that too. | ||
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On September 08 2011 21:03 chaos13 wrote: Promising to respond and then backing off the pressure. Step up your game if you don't want to get lynched soon. Everybody needs to start talking more. Let's not turn this into another Cosmic Horror where town starts out strong and then derps themselves into the ground. Yup, my fault. There were some people who raised suspicions because of this post that I made: On September 05 2011 10:09 jcarlsoniv wrote: I don't find bum's claim as ridiculous as you do. I don't necessarily believe his claim, but I have had a sneaking suspicion that I am the pious since the first night. This makes it very difficult for me to decide which one of you to believe. Your arguments against his claim ARE very weak. "Coloring his role green instead of blue, and using the word "are" instead of "is". Then followed: On September 06 2011 05:17 Jackal58 wrote: Trying to get a read off of Kenpachi is next to impossible. He plays every game like a VI. I don't believe I have played with jcarl before. If I have I died day 1 or 2 and didn't pay any attention to him. You say he's experienced? Right now I think I'd prefer a jcarl lynch. His defense of Bum and his excuse for it screams scum at me. Everything Kenpachi posts just screams trololololo. and On September 06 2011 05:21 wherebugsgo wrote: I don't know jcarl either, I thought he was new based on how he posted but sandroba said that he's played much longer than he has. I don't know Kenpachi (or Ace either for that matter) so honestly I can't say anything there either. I'll come back in an hour or two after I've gathered my thoughts on these three (I guess just jcarl/Ace cause kenpachi has like no content whatsoever) If kenpachi is town and trolling, then derp. I despise lurkers. Again, I'll say that if you guys really want to end up lynching me, there's little I'll be able to do to stop it. But there are definitely people who should be lynched before me. I've been thinking and wondering if there could be any merit to jackal's "squash the bug claims". It would be very interesting if WBG ended up just completely fucking the town this whole game. | ||
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On September 09 2011 01:25 wherebugsgo wrote: I don't understand why you guys are just throwing around accusations at this point in the game. There is plenty of information out there, it's like day 4. If you want to scumhunt, then use it. It doesn't help any of us for you to muddy up the town atmosphere and seed doubt by throwing accusations at people without a shred of analysis behind it. Just compare my accusation of Jackal to his of me and you'll see exactly what I mean. I'm not accusing you. I believe your accusation of Jackal is probably accurate. I'm just stating that it would be interesting if Jackal was right. | ||
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On September 09 2011 05:44 wherebugsgo wrote: This is not what you stated. You stated that I raised suspicions because of a post I made. Namely, this: Nooo, I meant that you had raised your own suspicions about me. That was in response to chaos asking "why are we suspicious of you". If you have suspicions, be clear about them. Explain to us why you have these suspicions. Or, follow through on them. Investigate them. Provoke your targets into making mistakes. Don't sit around and idly speculate, because that creates doubt and it is beneficial for mafia. It's beneficial to mafia to think, "oh, what if this guy is right?" and then not actually do anything about it. If you think there's a possibility that someone is right about something that may be currently overlooked, do something about it. You are right. I do have some work to do to be a better town player. However, I would rather try and fail than not to anything at all. I don't understand why you seem so afraid to be lynched, either. That has been eluding me. I'm not afraid to be lynched. I just don't want the town to waste a lynch on a green. | ||
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