EPTMy first Mafia game on TL but it seems like it's not much different.
TL Mafia XLIV
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xtfftc
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My first Mafia game on TL but it seems like it's not much different. | ||
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On August 19 2011 05:08 GreYMisT wrote: Im not sure that 6 for 1 trade was good for us. sure killing the demon is good, but throwing one of our mods into the depths of hell? Even dead trolls need moderation. R.I.P. | ||
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On August 19 2011 08:06 chaos13 wrote: Yes. Does that mean we should all lurk? No. If everybody discusses in a productive way, mafia will have trouble blending in and providing the same level of constructive input, and suddenly those extremely pro-town players don't become such high profile targets, because everyone is joining in to an equal degree. I agree, of course. If the whole population takes part in the democracy process, the people become too powerful to be messed with. But it often takes just one ordinary citizen to show signs of cowardice - and suddenly we see a snowball effect affecting the whole town. | ||
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On August 19 2011 08:38 Curu wrote: We already had a mess of a first day in Personality with everyone trying to roleplay. What point are you trying to get at xtfftc? I don't have anything to add really - as long as we're all active, all is good. I'd just bear in mind that people don't want to die, even in a game. | ||
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On August 19 2011 10:46 GreYMisT wrote: EBWOP please replace the second quote in the above post with the following. On August 19 2011 10:45 GreYMisT wrote: But in the below post he contradicts himself by saying that if 1 person doesn't post, we all lose. Snowball effect = one person deciding to do something and the others following. One person is not a problem unless the others follow suit. I apologise if the way I expressed myself was a bit hard to understand but by twisting my words all you do is make me suspicious. On August 19 2011 10:56 Navillus wrote: Well then, xtfftc, same questions, what are your thoughts on lurkers, lynching them, using town KP on them, and making a list? I already explained my position on lurkers and their effect on the game. Asking me to repeat myself is generating spam - and we all know who benefits from spam. As for lynching/using town KP on them is fine as long as we don't have better leads. Making a lurkers list is good as long as we don't set some arbitrary posting criteria. However, the active players appear to be unimpressed by your overzealousness and I don't think that they will allow your views on it to influence voting too much, so I'm fine with the idea. And something unrelated - it would help the game a lot if we start every name with a capital letter; it makes reading page after page much easier. So Xtfftc instead of xtfftc, etc. I don't expect everyone to start doing it but just consider it, please. | ||
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He obviously had something in mind and there's no way he wasn't aware of how his accusations would be perceived by the rest of us. However, his strategy hasn't benefited town by now. He has until the deadline to convince me to vote DropBear or BrownBear. If nothing meaningful comes out of the discussion initiated by him, I'd rather have one less player who throws arbitrary accusations around. I'd also like to point out that it shouldn't be that difficult to convince me to switch to DropBear, considering DropBear's behaviour. | ||
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Still, I'll stick to Palmar for now. | ||
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On August 20 2011 07:53 supersoft wrote: ah, okay I understand, you vote for palmar, not because you think he's scum, but because he didn't convince you to vote for DB. This is scumlogic. Town doesn't vote people for playing bad. Town votes for scum. Compared to DP, who proposed some really useless plans like this unnecessary mayorthing, your stuff seems more scummy to me. ##unvote ##vote: xtfftc What is it that you don't understand? Palmar has a very agressive opening strategy and, by the time of my vote, there was no better target. Am I convinced that Palmar is Mafia? Nope. He was just the best candidate for a lynch. There is more to my post though. I acknowledged the fact that Palmar is not just randmoly trolling but has an actual strategy. Some people don't agree with me+ Show Spoiler + On August 20 2011 11:17 Varpulis wrote: ##vote palmar filter his posts. Now tell me if a single one is productive and helpful. He blindly tunnels DropBear based on meta (i think, it's such a terrible accusation though that it's not worth trying to figure out), then calls everybody who disagrees with him scum. On August 20 2011 11:18 Varpulis wrote: by calling dropbear scum 20 times in a row? Also, On August 20 2011 09:57 Foolishness wrote: he just played two games as mafia recently: Personality and PTP2. Both games he attempted to be normal and blend in; there wasn't any of this odd posting. I don't think he would radically change his style like this if he was mafia again. On August 20 2011 11:25 Foolishness wrote: If Palmar is mafia he's on drugs. Or he is deliberately changing his strategy because he knows how much people here rely on the meta game. Seriously, is this all you do? We are supposed to be playing mind games here; not judge solely on what people did last time. On August 20 2011 22:38 supersoft wrote: Lucidity ghrur is now Barundar Jackal58 xtfftc hiro protagonist Erandorr darkponcho Vain chaoser GreYMisT nard Sevryn Pyo Kurumi DropBear these guys haven't voted yet. Since not all of you can possibly be scum, I encourage you to vote in the next 2-3 hours, so we can see who the maintargets are. It has been said many times before in this thread: A no lynch would be very bad. Please don't do any more lists. You voted for me as a response to my vote for Palmar - and then you put me on a list of people who haven't voted. I do believe that this is a honest mistake and you didn't try to manipulate anyone with it but it is sloppy nevertheless. I will answer to QuickSilver in a separate post because this one is long enough anyway. | ||
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On August 21 2011 02:31 Curu wrote: Hi xtffffffffffffc, what's your opinion on Sevyrn? If I don't answer QuickSilver, people will claim that I have nothing to say in my defense. If I don't analyse Sevyrn, I will be accused of not contributing. I will try to do both as there is enough time before the deadline but this is exactly what Mafia want us to do - discuss a number of targets instead of a single one. On August 21 2011 02:50 Foolishness wrote: You're right xtfftc, using past behavior to analyze someone says nothing about their role, and I'm merely posting that information as fluff so I can hide better as mafia. You got me bro No need to be defensive as I did not accuse you of being mafia - I merely pointed out that your arguments don't help us. | ||
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On August 21 2011 02:56 Curu wrote: wat I'm asking for your thoughts on Sevyrn. Surely you have some thoughts on Sevyrn just from reading the thread like a good diligent Townie would be doing. I don't want a carefully crafted opinion or analysis, I want to know what you think about Sevyrn right now. Mafia. The "pressure vote" thingie sounded too much like an attempt to be tough on mafia - and once he realised he screwed up he tried to disappear. On August 21 2011 02:57 supersoft wrote:xtfftc on the other hand confuses my "I-know-not-all-of-you-are-scum-so-please-vote-list" with my accuses on him. I admit, I overlooked him when I made that list. However that doesn't mean my accuse on the first place was a mistake. I didn't revenge-voted him for voting palmar. I don't care who votes palmar. I voted him for his reason to vote Palmar. I never said such a thing - I simply pointed out you were sloppy. | ||
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So I'm going to vote after Sevryn defends himself. Palmar, DropBear and BrownBear are a story that has to develop further. | ||
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On August 21 2011 03:35 wherebugsgo wrote: LOL Sevryn's running out of time. If he doesn't vote/defend himself, he gets modkilled, no? The question is whether he will get modkilled enough to allow us another lynch target. | ||
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On August 21 2011 03:37 wherebugsgo wrote: wtf? why are you afraid of voting now? Is it because others have labeled you as scum already? I expected supersoft to be superhappy about this but noone else. Sevryn is basically dead, one way or another. No mafia will be dumb enough to protect him anymore and the townies are aware that going after anyone else now would look suspicious. But in case Sevryn gets modkilled, we need to use the opportunity for two town kills. | ||
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On August 21 2011 03:54 Palmar wrote: he won't get modkilled if he's about to be lynched anyway, or well, that's the general way things are done. In this case, ##Vote: Sevryn Now, let's proceed with a discussion of what actually matters. My gut says supersoft and QuickSilver but my gut is biased and wants those who go after me dead ^^ Although Supersoft being so cautious when defending Sevryn and yet so aggressive against me and his earlier bandwagonning is something worth remembering. I want to hear more from DropBear and BlackBear. I do not find DropBear particularly suspicious but he still has to answer the questions raised. BlackBear is suspicious (going too agressively against inactive players, some random accusations) and, unlike DropBear, is a target we might get a majority for. Hiro, judging by the OP I think we have about 6 hours left. | ||
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On August 21 2011 05:13 Sevryn wrote: Yes you do lose something you lose a townie when i flip green and going after the people who most aggressively tried to get me lynched is all WIFOM. To be fair, I sort of agree with this. Kudos to Rayzor for pointing out supersoft's witchhunt but this statement was ridiculous. Mafia is unlikely to go so aggressively against a townie and by encouraging us to go after Sevryn's most vicious accusers in case he is innocent, he might secure another town lynch. Especially considering that Sevryn did get himself into a mess of his own... It's not like someone fabricated it all. So, in case Sevryn turns out to be a townie after the lynch, Rayzor is a good lead, and if Sevryn is indeed mafia, Rayzor is probably clean. Also, I am not convinced that Supersoft is mafia. In my opinion he is just too anxious to prove himself and is just all over the place. So, if Sevryn is a townie, I'd be inclined to believe in Supersoft's innocence. | ||
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On August 21 2011 05:44 Trotske wrote: The next page after I made my post calling Foolishness inactive he posts quite a few times while not addressing my post at all. Your post was stupid. DropBear's campaign for mayor is something worth analysing but it's not like it was going to happen, ever. Foolishness was simply acting funny. If you want to go against Foolishness, don't base your post around such a worthless argument. Also, Supersoft, after crying out about how I was avoiding casting my vote for Sevryn, we are facing the possibility of a non-linch due to you (and Jackal) unvoting. | ||
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On August 21 2011 06:02 RayzorFlash wrote:I think it would be good leads to go after anyone aggressively pushing for Sev if he's green, and I know i'm included in that list :S. Who else would you include in this list? | ||
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On August 21 2011 07:54 DropBear wrote: Are these directed at me or not? I can't tell To xtfftc, I'd rather lynch someone than noone. I would much rather kill hiro or chaoser over sevryn though. It was directed at Palmar's post but it is a question everyone has to think about, even if we don't discuss it openly. Is there a possibility to lynch anyone but Sevryn tonight? It doesn't matter who would you like to lynch tonight if it's impossible. If the answer is negative, it all comes down to lynching Sevryn or lynching no one. | ||
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On August 21 2011 10:22 Foolishness wrote: Does anyone think a scum would say such a thing? Especially considering he said this when everyone was voting for Sevryn? Yes, they would. Don't forget that Rayzor said this right after I challenged his previous post. On August 21 2011 12:50 RayzorFlash wrote: Also, saw somewhere in there that xtfftc asked who else would be on my list of people who have aggressively attacked Sev... it would be: - Myself - Nard - Munk-e - Mig Thanks, you took your time ^^ Care to elaborate a bit on your list? If you are town, you should be happy to share your thoughts with us; if you are mafia, you have to do it anyway to ease the suspicion from your persona. | ||
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On August 22 2011 22:33 Palmar wrote: Yes, I have quite a few questions. are you available for a conversation? First thing's first. Do you have any major suspicions. If it's up to you and you only, whom would you lynch today? Sure. I'm still just as suspicious of Rayzor as I saw two days ago. His defense ("would a mafia say this?") did not convince me because he was in a position when he had to say something like this. However, just like to days ago, I think that he is someone who should be pressured to talk more until he makes another mistake or we are convinced he is town. Even if he is mafia, he is not particularly dangerous at the moment because he can not influence the town at the moment. This is why at the moment I'd go for Mig. Although he improved after his early post about Sevryn, he did not provide anything substantial. Also, although a lot of people casted their vote for Sevryn and then went to bed, Mig did it in in the middle tha attempted switch to Rayzor. | ||
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Posting a lot =/= contributing. He is missing a lot of things in his analyses. For example, first he jumped on me and Nard for not being convinced that Sevryn was mafia and waiting for him. After the lynch, he goes on and on about us not being there to change our votes, although he is also from Europe and should be well aware that the deadline was 4AM. And guess what - Sevryn wasn't mafia. Similarly, he refers to QuickSilver as the vigilante when mentioning that QuickSilver was after me as if QS's role somehow gave extra weight to his opinion. As I've said before, I don't think that Supersoft is mafia but I think that if he focuses more on quality rather than quantity, his posts would be much better. | ||
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On August 22 2011 23:22 supersoft wrote: Why don't you share your thoughts on the Rayzorlight thing. Do you believe, that he's town I was the first to point the finger at Rayzor, feel free to filter my posts and re-read my arguments against him. On August 22 2011 23:22 supersoft wrote: and everyone was just randomly afk at the deciding point of time? Most of us were active at the deciding point of time. | ||
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On August 23 2011 03:38 wherebugsgo wrote: Nah, let him answer. He's been dodging. If I was mafia and thought that this was a situation in which a fellow member of the mafia might slip, I'd send him a PM. I am verifying that it would be wise to consider more than one target when talking about vigilantes, especially now that QuickSilver is dead. | ||
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On August 23 2011 04:23 hiro protagonist wrote: while you here, could you give me your opinion of xtfftc? who do you want to lynch today? And while he is working on it, how about you sharing your thoughts on my persona? The first time you ever mentioned me was when you voted for my lynching. | ||
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On August 23 2011 04:29 wherebugsgo wrote: Where in that post did I suggest you were mafia? You didn't, I was responding to the whole page. The hostility in some of the posts is clearly visible, I believe. | ||
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On August 23 2011 04:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Scum-slip bolded! Scum-slip bolded! Self-admitted scum everyone! On August 23 2011 04:43 wherebugsgo wrote: God damn it you posted this before my analysis  I WANTED TO BE FIRSTMod kill = a kill made by a mod. Mafia kill = a kill made by the mafia. Town kill = a kill made by the town. | ||
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On August 23 2011 04:50 wherebugsgo wrote: xtfftc has made some "contributions", but his reactions have been really strange. Supersoft made a list once of people who haven't voted, and xtfftc jumped to the conclusion that it was a suspicion list. ... Apologizes meekly to supersoft later, why? I did not say that the list of people Supersoft made was a list of people who were suspicious - I merely pointed out that he was wrong. I voted for Palmer, Supersoft quoted my post and voted for me immediately after - and then he put me on the list. It was sloppy, no matter how you look at it. Then I saw I missed doing it on the voting thread, so I apologised for my mistake. Why - because I was wrong and even made a sneer remark on it. wat indeed? What is it that you are claiming? Is this all about semantics or is there anything more to it? On August 23 2011 04:50 wherebugsgo wrote: I will answer to QuickSilver in a separate post because this one is long enough anyway. but never actually made such a post, semi-copping out with this trash: If I don't answer QuickSilver, people will claim that I have nothing to say in my defense. If I don't analyse Sevyrn, I will be accused of not contributing. I never got to responding to it, mostly because I felt there was not much to talk about. Most of his accusations were based on me arguing the point that lynching lurkers as top priority is not a great strategy for town. The rest was an analysis on my vote for Palmer, which was taken out of context. Still, there you go: On August 20 2011 16:52 QuickSilver7 wrote: Our scum dying today is xtfftc, he does the same thing that Trotske does. So lemme get this straight, he votes Palmar to try and get Palmar to convince him that DB or BB are scum? He doesn’t even think Palmar is scum but he’s fine killing him if it means “one less player who throws arbitrary accusations around” Townies throw accusations around not mafia, mafia want to lurk where they won’t be seen. People vote for more than one reason. Not every vote means "this person is mafia". Sometimes you vote to pressure, sometime you vote to encourage. He also picks DB and BB as people who he’d switch to if Palmar magically convinces him that one of them is scum. However he doesn’t give any reasons why he’d vote for these people other than a very vague reference to DB’s “behavior.” Mentioning DB wasn't a vague reference, I had already commented on it in a previous post. Mentioning BB was to encourage Palmar to keep on with his lead because I thought he was onto something. Here is another: Woa red flags going up all over the place, for context xtfftc was posting some troll crap at the beginning about democracy and random stuff which Curu called him out on. Firstly he says he has nothing to add, bad bad bad, as a townie you can always add to the discussion. For context, this post comes in the middle of a discussion about lynching lurkers and different lynch organization techniques. A townie should have lots to say on this subject, after the lynch is how we’re killing scum. Yet xtfftc doesn’t address any of this and skates by with a very neutral “as long as we're all active, all is good.” Then he drops the bomb “I'd just bear in mind that people don't want to die, even in a game” a townie would be happy to die, every townie that dies at night is a blue that didn’t get sniped (or a medic failure lolol  ). Townies should have no fear of death and be contributing as much as possible, any reticence towards posting indicates something to hide and that indicates scum.This was a discussion about policies which should have been over a long time ago. I said what I had to say - that some town players will lurk and lynching players for lurking is a bad idea. At the time of my post there were people calling out for lynching all lurkers as a top priority... I don't agree with this and never will. Anyway next post: I agree, of course. If the whole population takes part in the democracy process, the people become too powerful to be messed with. But it often takes just one ordinary citizen to show signs of cowardice - and suddenly we see a snowball effect affecting the whole town. But in the below post he contradicts himself by saying that if 1 person doesn't post, we all lose. Snowball effect = one person deciding to do something and the others following. One person is not a problem unless the others follow suit. I apologise if the way I expressed myself was a bit hard to understand but by twisting my words all you do is make me suspicious. I never said that "if 1 person doesn't post, we all lose" - I said that "One person is not a problem unless the others follow suit." The nested quotes here show the little exchange about democracy I was talking about earlier. Now I would have let that whole thing go as early game trolling and not taken anything he said seriously, but rather then say “oh hey nbd I was just trolling”, xtfftc chooses to defend his comments which means he meant them, if he mean them than GeyMist’s argument for xtfftc’s posts being scummy is suddenly relevant. Beyond the democracy exchange this post also rehashes stuff others have been saying about lurkers and town KP, adding nothing new to the table. The very definition of CWC. I did mean them and I still mean them - prioritising on lurkers is bad for the game. According to QuickSilver I was wrong for saying "there is nothing more to add", yet I am also wrong for "adding nothing new to the table". I made my point about the policy, then I made it again. And then I got asked about it again. Yes, I had nothing else to add and I still don't. | ||
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Some context on the whole discussion would benefit your decision making greatly. | ||
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On August 23 2011 04:50 hiro protagonist wrote: well, there's this: yeah, If I was scum, I wouldn't want someone around that randomly accusing people ether. I mean, why would you want anyone to do something that puts pressure on scum, right? It puts pressure on everyone and can be detrimental to discussion. Don't take things out of context, please. | ||
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#1: Why would it have been suspicious to go after anyone else? Because it would look as if they are trying to save their buddy. If you had evidence, you could've made the case for someone else! I did and I made one against Rayzor. Vote to kill mafia. That's our job. Our job is not to extract information. Our job is to kill mafia. If you're not voting to kill mafia, then you're fucking up. ... Like I said earlier, you don't vote to "encourage" someone, pressurevote them, whatever. You vote someone to kill them, because you think they're mafia. I don't agree. The game is not that simple. Yes, if we have a serious target, we vote to kill him. By the time of my vote there wasn't. Yes, but when people suggest that we could lynch lurkers, you can add to the discussion by instead suggesting SPECIFIC PEOPLE to lynch, and reasons/evidence why. We are talking about very early Day 1. You and like ~25 of the other players didn't add something constructive about specific people at that time; the few who did were just probing. You can not attack me for not having a concrete target that early in the game. On August 23 2011 05:55 wherebugsgo wrote: Oh, I forgot this: After the #1 (my "wat" comment) You said we needed to use the opportunity for two kills. Funny thing is, you really didn't have any suggestions for WHO to kill, just "hey guys maybe we should kill two people." That makes me question your motives for wanting two people to die. If you wanted to lynch mafia, why wouldn't you make a suggestion of who you suspected? In the next hour after this post I urged DB and BB to enter the discussion and raised my suspicions on Rayzor. But why wouldn't we want a second lynch? Everyone agrees that a non-lynch is bad for town, so why not do two? On August 23 2011 05:41 hiro protagonist wrote: I did not say anything about the negative aspects of random accusations. I said that if I was scum, I would not want someone around that randomly accuses people. Well you could have asked me why it is that I don't want people throwing random accusations and I would have explained to you what is my stance on the issue. Why it is that you decided to vote before enquiring is beyond me. | ||
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On August 23 2011 06:22 Foolishness wrote: That's totally a townie talking there. Not afraid to voice his opinion or yell at someone. Yes but in case he is mafia and knows that I am town, he'd be able to point the finger at my most vicious inquisitor. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On August 23 2011 11:37 Curu wrote: xtffc's "two town kills" slip definitely needs to be looked at, and I don't buy his defense. He describes town kills as kills that the Town makes, but that has absolutely nothing to do with modkills. Town does not control modkills, sick slip????? Of course townkills have nothing to do with modkills. Townkills are made by town, modkills by mods. What is the problem? On August 23 2011 08:49 GreYMisT wrote: I posted an analysis of a post by xfftc early on. here it is as well: And I already pointed out what was wrong with this: On August 23 2011 07:17 BrownBear wrote: This is interesting. Can't say it wasn't welcome at the time considering how much Palmar was tunnelling me, but I go back to it and it feels rather strange. He wants "one less player who throws meaningless accusations around" sounds a lot like he wants "no players throwing accusations around" because at that point Palmar was really the only guy who was putting any suspicion on anyone (there was the sevryn thing, but that wasn't born out of someone accusing sevryn, that was more born out of someone noticing a pretty obvious slip sevryn made). Thing is, if nobody's accusing anyone, that's a veeery pro-mafia atmosphere. I suppose from the other side, it could be seen as him wanting to clean up the thread a little bit, but generally, going for the guy with the most posts on day 1 means you want to make day 2 a lot quieter - not a very town-centric viewpoint unless the guy with the most posts is really obvious scum (which Palmar isn't). When you look at this post, you have to look at the context as well - what else was happening at this point of the game. The filter option is great but no statement should be considered without a background. I liked Palmer's strategy and decided to play along. Before my vote on Palmer (and the few other votes that followed), most of his accusations were one-liners. Afterwards, he presented a well-written case against you. It wasn't enough to get you lynched on day 1 but it was a start. On August 23 2011 07:17 BrownBear wrote: Pretty weak and short reasoning to change your opinion and jump on a bandwagon dude. At least your Palmar accusation had some balls behind it. Again, context. When I was asked about Sevryn, I said I wanted to read his response and to analyse his earlier posts further but I needed some time because I had to answer to a lot of other stuff as well. But Curu was not happy with this and said "I don't want a carefully crafted opinion or analysis, I want to know what you think about Sevyrn right now". I gave him that - and now apparently I am guilty for the very same reason. A little more explanation - but still not really any contribution. He wants to see the saga of me/DB/Palmar develop further... At that point it had pretty much settled into Palmar tunnelling me and Dropbear being mostly forgotten. DB was mostly forgotten but I wasn't happy with this. Shows a little bit of a lack of paying attention to the thread... at that point Sev wasn't a modkill candidate (unless the fact that he had voted but unvoted meant he would get modkilled, but I don't think that's how it works. If I'm wrong, then nvm.) Context. How can you seriously say that this shows "a lack of paying attention to the thread"?! Just read Wherebugsgo's post that I was replying to. The question is whether he will get modkilled enough to allow us another lynch target. Again, if anyone isn't paying attention, it is those who build cases against me. Also, there was no chance I was gonna get lynched at that point. After Sevryn, you were the one with most votes at the time ^^ Raises the concept of a no-lynch (this was in the period where everyone was thinking "wait a minute what if Sev's just dumb town?). It was just after midnight in Europe and the question was whether we should stick to Sevryn or unvote him. There wasn't time for anything else. It would be good to bear this in mind tonight as well because unless there are two strong candidates, a switch isn't going to happen in the last few hours before the deadline. So you're saying, instead of just voting and going to pass out, he voted late, then decided to switch for the guy you've been pushing all game... and this makes him scummy? I don't follow your logic at all, care to explain this one? No, he didn't decide to switch. Everyone else who was online was considering switching to Rayzor when Mig came in and voted for Sevryn. Although your case is much better thought through than the arguments against me presented by Supersoft, Quicksilver and Greymist, you have also overlooked quite a few of the facts. :/ I'd really appreciate it if Hiro answers to this: Well you could have asked me why it is that I don't want people throwing random accusations and I would have explained to you what is my stance on the issue. Why it is that you decided to vote before enquiring is beyond me. And finally, there is a limit to how much I can read and write. I can not keep on answering to the same accusations again and again and do a proper analysis of someone else at the same time. Those of you who are unhappy with my previous contributions might want to consider giving me a breather. | ||
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At the beginning of Day 1 he wrote passionately about town organisation and how a no-lynch is a tragedy and that it's Palmar's fault for leading town into this. + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2011 10:14 chaos13 wrote: The bolded is probably the scummiest thing about DB at the moment. You say that as if Palmar is confirmed town "I hope you didn't land vigi..." Any explanation for this? People keep complaining that the thread is disorganized and nothing proper is getting done. Who started all that? Palmar. Palmar as town is The Brother Leader and Guide of Town. I see absolutely none of that here. So far all he has done is cause mayhem and spam and disorganization and a generally very unhelpful pro-mafia atmosphere. In other words, that stops right fucking now. WE NEED TO BE ORGANIZED FOR THIS GAME TO WORK No lynches are very possible if we keep dicking around the way we have been, and no-lynches gain mafia a free night kill. So here's the deal. If you're going to vote someone, you explain why. Clearly. If you're going to accuse someone of being scum, you explain why you think they are mafia. Clearly. Any other behavior is anti-town and leads to spam and confusion. Let's cut out the spam, cut out the votes without explanation, cut out the troll posts, and cut out the one-liner arguments. My vote goes on the player who led town right into this shitstorm. ##Vote: Palmar Later, he basically repeated what he had already said. "We're gonna derp ourselves into a useless no-lynch today if this keeps up." This comes at the point when there are seven votes on Sevryn. + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2011 23:38 chaos13 wrote: We're gonna derp ourselves into a useless no-lynch today if this keeps up. This thread is a mess. I'm not sure on who thinks what of who any more because things are so muddled up with accusations everywhere and a complete lack of clarity in communication. Again, who started this? Palmar. When Sevryn confronted him that by voting Palmar he is directly helping the lynch of someone he believed was town, Chaos13 said: On August 21 2011 09:31 chaos13 wrote: I'm voting for the person I think is scum. I fail to see how that is scummy. Only to change his decision an hour later with: On August 21 2011 10:29 chaos13 wrote: Whatever. Sevryn is probably town and I don't want to see him lynched so He switched to Rayzor at the moment when everyone awake had to do it in order to remain unsuspicous and it was also clear that there would be a lynch no matter what. In case Rayzor is town, both lynchings are okay for mafia, so they lose nothing. Overall, hardly said anything useful all day long, yet he kept on going about how town is not organised and others aren't contributing. Also, I'm not happy with this bit: His defense (Mig's), just like chaoser's original accusation, feels false to me. I'm really not seeing anything genuine here. Mig as a player has a tendency to become very involved in the game, actively scumhunting, leading people, and basically taking control. This is such a passive defense, and is weak for such a strong player. I don't see much substance to it. This isn't an accusation of Mig, I just want to see if anyone else felt the same way about this post as I did. He goes on and on about how the other players bring nothing to the table and to do this he writes a whole paragraph that can be reduced to half a sentence. P.S. A reply to Curu's post from earlier today: + Show Spoiler + On August 23 2011 20:42 Curu wrote: You posted about "we need to get two town kills." That's taken to mean killing two townies - you tried to explain it away by saying town kills are kills controlled by the town = lynch and modkill. I pointed out modkill is not controlled by the Town, you agree with me. So...what did you mean by town kill? I see now. The town already wanted to kill Sevryn when Wherebugsgo suggested that he is likely to be modkilled. So even though he would have technically been killed by a mod, it was going to be what the majority wanted. | ||
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On August 24 2011 04:13 Curu wrote: Oh there's xtfftc. Ninja'd. To be fair, I was online all day but there were like five new posts every time I refreshed and I felt that there was enough spam without my help. At one point I thought that DropBear was DT but had suddenly realised that he might be insane or paranoid. Hence he wanted to lynch the person he checked on Night 1 to find out whether he is sane or not before picking up a target for Night 2. But then he came back to confess. | ||
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On August 24 2011 04:23 supersoft wrote: You said you were suspicious of him this morning? Why didn't you share write it down in the thread then? This defense comes out of the nowhere. There are two possibilities. Either you are scum and you want to protect your scumbuddy. Or you are scum, you know you will die tonight, so you defend someone, because you want us to believe he's scum, too. after you flip red. Or I was too busy defending myself from your annoying tunneling and didn't have the time to spend on a usefull case. | ||
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On August 24 2011 04:28 supersoft wrote: share your thought about nard and kurumi please. I asked you about these guys like 10 times and you never answered. You don't have to be upset because I vote for you. It's nothing personal, I just think that you are scum. You never ever accuse anyone in here, just like nard, you just keep summarizing what happens... I've taken no offense. As I already said, although I am happy to answer anyone else's questions, I find your obsession detrimental to town's play. I did answer a lot of your accusations in detail and I also answered QuickSilver, Wherebugsgo, and BrownBear's - and yet instead of commenting on what I said, you just come up with new questions. If you contribute with something, I'd be inclined to spend more time on you. | ||
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On August 24 2011 04:56 supersoft wrote: I am still waiting for this one. You have a tendency to ignore accusations towards you. No bad strategy... if you're scum! Because you don't have to share any informations. Yet again you prove that you don't actually bother reading carefully. I already answered to these. On August 24 2011 04:56 supersoft wrote: Why don't you just vote him until he convincingly defends himself? You knew he was town - scum knows best - so you waited a little bit... After I posted this "I'm going to vote after Sevryn defends himself", you read this as a proof that we were both mafia and I was trying to defend Sevryn. Now you claim that I knew he was town because I was mafia, yet I decided to attract additional attention to myself by not voting for him. Make up your mind already. On August 24 2011 04:56 supersoft wrote: accusing Quicksilver the vig, that built a reasonable case against you. And you also attack DB slightly but very careful. You don't really care, your vote will remain on severyn the VT anyway. 1. I did not accuse QuickSilver. 2. It was Day 1; QuickSilver's role has absolutely no relevance whatsoever - and I already pointed this out to you last time I replied to it. he defends chaos13. Right after I wrote a post about what I found suspicious in Chaos13's behaviour and attempted to start a discussion about him... On August 24 2011 05:11 RayzorFlash wrote: Sorry guys, I've had computer issues since last night, and still do, lol... I have no problem with lynching either Hiro or Xtfftc, so long as its not a no-lynch... Last time you posted about me you said there was no obvious tell that I was mafia. Care to explain why you changed your mind? | ||
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I am leaning towards Hiro at the moment. I can see how his voting pattern might actually make sense for a mafia player. He has taken a stance against pretty much everyone accused, so in a way he has pleased everyone without focusing on a specific target. Also, this: On August 24 2011 07:52 hiro protagonist wrote: If I am the leading vote with 10 minutes left. I will switch to myself so there might be a lynch. How can a 100% confirmed townie's death be better than a no-lynch? It's not like Hiro's death is going to give us some concrete information. So, ##Vote: hiro protagonist I will check the thread before I go to bed in ~45 minutes and I'll switch to Mig if we are facing the prospect of a no-lynch. | ||
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Lynching DropBear tonight shouldn't be mafia's priority. They (probably, I believe Foolishness) have a roleblocker and they can probably snipe someone more dangerous - or DropBear himself. Before DropBear claimed DT and subsequently medic, Mig was pushing the case against him aggressively. Once DropBear claimed, Mig said nothing more. No reevaluation of his case and no opinion on whether he believes the claim or not. He simply disappeared. I'd like to hear his opinion on this before it's too late. | ||
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Mig, the only thing you have said about Hiro until now is that: On August 23 2011 10:52 Mig wrote: hiro - has contributed nothing but seems much more active than when I played with him in AA and he was scum. His posts also feel more bold to me, he was a lot more reserved and skittish before. So leaning town. However, Hiro just said: On August 24 2011 08:32 hiro protagonist wrote: Palmar is right about my scum meta, but the funny thing is, the same could be said about my town meta. Im super passive, and in all of my past games as town I all ways wondered why I cant be more active. and its because Im to afraid of being wrong that I dont say anything. In RTM I had 3 people in my scum list that where actual scum by the end of the game, but I was afraid to mislynch. I wanted to change that. Do you have anything more to add to this? | ||
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I am sticking to my vote for Hiro and will be going to bed pretty soon. | ||
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Also hope Rayzor's phone didn't run out of battery. On August 24 2011 09:59 Palmar wrote: I'm just going to sleep, Mig is/was leading the race, vote for him so we can kill another townie. Hiro has 9 votes, Mig has 5. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + 1 lucidity 2 mig 3 jackal 4 vain 5 xtfftc 6 rayzor 7 viscera 8 curu 9 varpulis 10 wherebugsgo 11 kurumi 5 for Mig + Show Spoiler + 1 palmar 2 foolishness 3 chaoser 4 dropbear 5 pyo 14 needed for a majority. Also, Hiro claimed earlier that he is willing to vote for himself to prevent a no-lynch. Also, Palmar disappeared after claiming that Mig is town and voting for him nevertheless, although Mig only had 5 votes to Hiro's 9. Night everyone. | ||
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On August 24 2011 05:30 supersoft wrote: i believe hero is innocent and mafia is superhappy because they save xtfftc today... at least i am schocked how fast that hiro bandwagon started out of the nowhere... This one is the first. Just like with Sevryn, he was convinced in Hiro's innocence without bothering to explain why. And this exchange with Kurumi: On August 24 2011 05:31 Kurumi wrote: that's it if hiro flips scum You better have a witch doctor with magic words of course because my are better voting hiro On August 24 2011 05:55 supersoft wrote: And if you want to create a connection between me and hiro, go ahead. I am not afraid to share my thoughts. I might be wrong, if you want to lynch me for being wrong please do so. A pro-town atmosphere is different. He is so sure that Hiro is town that he is willing to put his life on it. Also, On August 24 2011 05:55 supersoft wrote: I just want to prevent another mislynch. You refused to listen to me at day1. I believe I was one of the few people that questioned sevs guilt right from the start. And I didn't do it to gain towncredit later on. I actually tried to prevent the lynch and I encouraged him to contribute. I am afraid that the same thing will happen again. 14 Votes needed for a majority. Mafia only needs to convince 8 people out of the remaining 21. Right after claiming that he didn't defend Sevryn to gain towncredit, he reminds us that he tried to prevent the lynch. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On August 24 2011 05:37 Kurumi wrote: supersoft, maybe instead of asking xtfftc over and over again what he thinks about me and nard, maybe voice Your own opinion? oh wait You can't outsmart the On August 24 2011 05:46 Kurumi wrote: then don't I will smash him with my hammer no prob On August 24 2011 05:51 Kurumi wrote: I have only one hammer, don't cover Your brobro supersuperbro On August 24 2011 07:24 Kurumi wrote: Well guys, then hiro protagonist will try to outsmart the bullet during the night. Oh wait, it's a HAMMER. There's a link between supersoft+Palmar and hiro protagonist, in my opinion it's a very good lynch given that AND he is scummy as heck and I do believe he is scum. On August 25 2011 00:36 Kurumi wrote: supersoft won't make it tomorrow, I sincerely apologize, but dead scum is something we need. On August 25 2011 00:45 Kurumi wrote: Do You think I am dumb? Just because You weren't on wagon which led on townie lynch does not make You a townie, same goes with lynches going on mafia. Sure, You CAN be Town, but there are many shenanigans which could happen. On August 25 2011 05:12 Kurumi wrote: I totally don't need medic protect as vigilante ;u; sob On August 25 2011 08:39 Kurumi wrote: Hi iGrok *waves* I just want to see supersoft flip. I need to wait till 4am >_> Surely if he wanted to trick mafia to RB him or heal Supersoft, he would have been a bit more subtle to make it less obvious that he is setting up a trap? Instead, he kept on repeating it again and again, as if there wasn't enough spam in the thread already. Pretty much everyone had town reads on both Palmar and Supersoft. Yet, Kurumi based his shot on the assumption that at least one and perhaps both of them were mafia. If he gets blocked, Supersoft is red; if he doesn't Palmar dies. When he didn't get roleblocked, he decided to stick to Supersoft nevertheless. Moreover, he claimed that : There's a link between supersoft+Palmar and hiro protagonist Hiro flipped town, Palmar flipped town - and he still wants to lynch Supersoft? He claimed he was trying to trick mafia to RB him/protect Supersoft but if he was intending to go after Palmar anyway, why did he accuse Palmar in the first place? Surely he wouldn't want a mafia player to know that he is next in line. His only relatively decent analysis was on Navillus in early Day 1: + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2011 23:41 Kurumi wrote: I dislike Palmar's random fingerpointing and not dedicating his vote to any of the candidates presented, why?. This is not promoting pro-town atmosphere, though he made a case on BrownBear. I think Palmar would be a good DT check or just person to look at tomorrow. I think we should lynch Navillus. He jumped on quick Palmar bandwagon with shoddy reasoning ("he is shouting kill DropBear"). Let's recap what Navillus have done: -say I am trolling / will troll / am useless / anti-town in the first hours of the game all over again -vote for me just because of that -unvote me without any reason (besides "You started to contribute") -tried to coordinate blues (Town KP should shoot lurkers, really good deal for Mafia, because hatters will have useless bombs planted and vigis will waste their only one shot they have) -disappeared during the most active time of the day. ##vote Navillus I'll see what Sevryn has done. Palmar is not good lynch today, I feel his lynch is a bit Kavdragon-ish from PYPI I've played. Since then he has hardly contributed anything but one-liners and pointing the finger at a lot of people. Which is even more suspicious considering that he accused Palmar of the very same thing: On August 20 2011 23:41 Kurumi wrote: I dislike Palmar's random fingerpointing and not dedicating his vote to any of the candidates presented, why?. This is not promoting pro-town atmosphere, though he made a case on BrownBear. I think Palmar would be a good DT check or just person to look at tomorrow. Kurumi hasn't been promoting pro-town atmosphere. He also isn't dedicating his vote to any of the real lynch candidates at the moment and is instead going after Supersoft. When he got asked to justify his post on Mig, he redirected the question by basing it on what Foolishness and DB without providing anything on his own. He suggested that he has to re-read the thread but never expanded on this. + Show Spoiler + On August 24 2011 04:55 Kurumi wrote: We have important Foolishness+DropBear link on that lynch, couple of players who are here for a while (chaoser and Jackal58), the more we know about these people (who are quite active and well-spoken) the better for us. I dunno I should re-read the thread since I've got time now. He had a clash - or "clash" - with Mig, which served to strengthen the case against Hiro. + Show Spoiler + On August 24 2011 09:31 Kurumi wrote: You dont find hiro scummy at all ? There's nothing what felt wrong about his posting ? He was caught on posting with scum agenda , three people including You are trying hard to deflect his lynch , everyone of You seem to pull a meta argument and add nothing from this game itself . His posts while both Hiro and Mig were viable candidates urged everyone to pick Hiro over Mig. When Palmar tried to push Mig instead of Hiro, he opposed him as well: On August 24 2011 09:47 Kurumi wrote: Of course You prefer MIG because Town might not get enough votes for hiro and we get a no lynch . Also: On August 24 2011 09:48 Kurumi wrote: Thanks for claiming roleblocker or other power role , MIG is just a goon. On August 24 2011 09:52 Kurumi wrote: Vet claim is here to save hiro who has mafia power role , probably roleblocker for mig who is just a goon. So, he accused Mig without providing a proper analysis; then he pushed Hiro, a townie, over Mig; then he shot Palmar, another townie; and now, when there are a lot of voices against Mig, he is going after Supersoft. | ||
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Palmar was convinced in his innocence because Mig explained his relative inactivity with being "burned out" and deducted that Mig wouldn't use an excuse like this to divert accusations. This is the post Palmar was referring to: On August 23 2011 09:19 Mig wrote: My activity this game has been a lot lower than most of my games. I am really burned out on mafia right now. I have played too many games recently and I am going to take a break after this game. I have to force myself just to actually read the thread. It is no excuse for my poor play but it is the truth. So if I am lynched because of it my apologies for sucking. But is no one else seeing the extremely poor reasoning behind some of the people jumping on my bandwagon? Jackal - gives no reason whatsoever for voting me dropbear - First you say you are ok with hiro because he tried to lead the lynch off of sevryn. Wtf I was trying to get people to vote chaoser before the rayzor bandwagon even really got started. And you even agreed with me while I was trying to make it happen. You then proceed to vote for me without giving a single reason. Varp - Did you even read my post about meta arguments or did you just intentionally ignore the meaning of it? I am not against meta arguments. I used meta arguments to help get you lynched in the last game we played together. I use meta pretty much every game I play. My entire point was foolishness' meta argument was trash and didn't actually show I was scum at all. Curu - just a pure meta reason Nobody has defended me at all this game. Has my play really been so scummy this game that if I were mafia not a single one of my team members would be willing to try and save me? If am lynched because of my poor play it's my own fault but people should take a look at everything surrounding my bandwagon. Anyway it doesn't appear I have any shot at convincing people to vote chaoser so I will write up a case on who I feel is the next scummiest in the next few minutes. All Mig wrote on him being burned out was this one paragraph. Judging by the respect everyone has for Mig, I'm pretty sure that he is a good enough player to be active even when he plays as mafia. Palmar put too much emphasis on this offhand comment and claimed that Mig wouldn't use such a "dirty" trick. Afterwards, Mig started posting a lot. Let us presume that Mig is mafia indeed. He doesn't have the motivation to be his usual self and attracts suspicion. Palmar uses this lack of motivation to wrongly deduct that Mig is town because a mafia Mig would play fair and wouldn't use something like this to make his game easier. And then Mig, who never wanted an easy game and was just honest that he is not in the mood for mafia at the moment, feels compelled to increase his activity because he doesn't want to ruin the game for everyone else. It fits pretty well. Mig being guilty also fits with my mafia read on Kurumi. ##Vote: Mig On August 26 2011 04:50 Foolishness wrote: In the meantime, I would like to hear peoples' opinions about the following 3 people: 1) nard 2) Lucidity 3) Trotske (now iGrok. I'm mainly focused on Trotske's posting since iGrok just joined in). 1) Nard's posts so far have been calls for town to get organised and not much more. He posted some analysis on Hiro and a defence of Mig near the deadline when it was obvious that Hiro was getting lynched. Apart from that he's been content to just stay out of the spotlight and deflect Supersoft's feeble attacks. 2) Lucidity doesn't have a lot of posts to be analysed. He wanted DropBear lynched yesterday at a time when I thought mafia wouldn't push for it. However, he was also one of the players who pushed for my lynch over Mig's and keeps on finding excuses about not contributing. First he was busy over the weekend, then he had a problem with wordy posts. He went after Supersoft at the beginning of Day 3 and even though Supersoft didn't bother explaining his actions, did not develop it further. But this isn't that much to work with really. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the one that needs replacement. 3) Trotske is impossible to read, so iGrok gets a headstart in case he is mafia. He seems to be eager to contribute but this means nothing for now. All three are suspicious because of their lack of contributions but Nard is the best shot. iTrotske is just a coinflip at the moment. Lucidity has been looking for excuses and will eventually run out of them. Nard, however, simply doesn't post much but fluff. | ||
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On August 26 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote: Okay Mig answer me this : Why on earth would you track Chaos and not someone more in doubt , like BB ? I would really love to hear an explanation on that one becuase to me it seems like you just want to get something out of your death at this point. Also, why JeeJee on Night 1? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Oh, wow. Curu and Supersoft appear simultaneously 36 hours before the deadline and announce that I have refused to vote for Mig, although there are 15 others who haven't at the time. Wow. Okay, here goes. Curu, I addressed my early policy posts already: I wasn't advocating lurking; I was advocating against lynching lurkers. Please read my responses to the previous cases build against me before re-posting the same accusations. If you have anything to say about me responses, great - but completely ignoring the responces reveals that you didn't build a proper case. Then in the VERY SAME POST, he tells Foolishness to consider that Palmar is scum. When called out by Foolishness, he is very adamant in pointing out he did not accuse Foolishness of being Mafia and drops the topic completely rather than trying to argue his point (which was a giant contradiction anyways). I didn't say Palmar was mafia; I said that Foolishness shouldn't rule out the possibility simply because of meta arguments - so there was no other point to argue for. This was also the time when I was trying to motivate Palmar to get his act straight instead of disorganising town. There is no contradiction in my actions. I really don’t understand what is going on in here at all. Okay, I will explain it to you then. I wasn't arguing that Palmar was mafia; I wanted to motivate Palmar to be more constructive because I thought - and still do - that he had a good lead against BrownBear. A townie voting for him is can serve as a wake-up call. And soon after Palmar posted a well-written and rather convincing case. Similarly, DropBear was mentioned because his mayor campaign was rather stupid and I was hoping to incite him to get his act together. My concern was obviously justified as his DT claim on Day 2 was even worse than what he did on Day 1. Out of the three, BrownBear was the only one I was actually suspicious of. When I asked him to tell me right then and there what he felt about Sevyrn, he said Mafia. The thing is, if he was already so sure in his mind that Sevyrn was Mafia, why was his vote not there? No, when you asked me, I said I'd like to spend time analysing and wanted to wait for Sevyrn to defend himself before taking a stance on his alignment. When you pushed me to give you an immediate answer, I said that I think him to be mafia. How convenient of you to forget my initial reply. Will gladly answer questions but won’t offer them unprompted by himself. I had to spend a lot of time defending myself and couldn't provide enough analysis - but I started doing it as soon as things around me quieted down a bit. I posted a few things I think were overlooked by others and I also said that I am willing to answer all questions. Obviously, there is a limit to how much I can read and post. He was very ready and willing to put his vote into Mig when he has never played with Mig before. This is what I said about Mig: Sure. I'm still just as suspicious of Rayzor as I saw two days ago. His defense ("would a mafia say this?") did not convince me because he was in a position when he had to say something like this. However, just like to days ago, I think that he is someone who should be pressured to talk more until he makes another mistake or we are convinced he is town. Even if he is mafia, he is not particularly dangerous at the moment because he can not influence the town at the moment. This is why at the moment I'd go for Mig. Although he improved after his early post about Sevryn, he did not provide anything substantial. Also, although a lot of people casted their vote for Sevryn and then went to bed, Mig did it in in the middle tha attempted switch to Rayzor. I would like you to point me to the post where I was "very ready and willing to put" my vote into Mig - or to declare that you made a mistake in your analysis. As a side-note, I still maintain the same position on Rayzor. He has gone into lurking/afk mode, which doesn't help his cause. Quick to claim credit in case Rayzor flipped Mafia. Context, please. I said this after being asked by Supersoft (who was supposedly providing deep analysis of my posts) about my opinion on Rayzor - although I had already posted about Rayzor earlier. He calls Hiro a 100% confirmed Townie (I think under the assumption that Hiro’s self vote would show he is a Townie, but then why not try to convince people not to lynch Hiro?), Okay, really? Hiro says that he is willing to vote for himself even though he is town. Therefore, Hiro knows that he is 100% town - hence my question. I didn't say that I thought he was 100% town, I said that if he is town, he knows it and shouldn't vote for himself no matter what. If both were to be scum though, I don't understand xtfftc avoiding Mig's wagon like the plague today, a red Mig flip would relieve a lot of pressure on him. A lot of people are lurking much more than me, yet if I don't jump on the wagon immediately, I am apparently avoiding it. You could have at least given me the time to join it or avoid it. Not even a single mention of lynching Mig, instead actually chainsawing Mig’s attackers. Kurumi was after Supersoft; you are just making up stuff again. Who did I "chainsaw" apart from him? The only thing I can't see is both of them being Town since votes probably would've consolidated on one of them in that case, there was no need for scum to try to oppose either one. I don't see the logic behind this. It's not like there were 20 votes for us, there were less than 10 combined. On August 26 2011 07:22 supersoft wrote: hmm you're right. However at least I think it's strange that absolutely no scum voted him. (assuming that I am correct with my judgements over these people) As for xtfftc who refuses to vote for mig and prefers to go for kurumi; I think it might be possible that he underestimates the case against him. Therefor he tries to establish another target with a huge post to peel of votes from mig. At the point of time when he accused kurumi, I already posted that kurumi might be scum because of the possibility of a acum vigilante. So he wasn't completely alone with that. How dare I post an analysis on a suspicious player 44 hours before the deadline... And apparently I have refused to vote for Mig. Extremely suspicious indeed. Not at all like voting for Rayzor and changing your vote for Mig an hour and four posts later with this as reasoning: Since noone is up for a Rayzorflashlynch, I vote for mig. Who knows if we find a majority for him tomorrow. | ||
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As to Mig's claim, I reckon both him and Chaos13 are mafia and are trying to get something out of Mig's lynch. | ||
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Curu, check my voting history again, please. And I'm up for switching to BrownBear as well. | ||
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My point is you voted for him on day 2 This is the last time I'm saying this - I did not vote for Mig on Day 2. | ||
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On August 27 2011 01:29 Curu wrote: Right, but you had this: Actually this makes you look worse if Mig flips red, since you commented on your next leading wagon but never actually voted. Two scum wagons on day 2 is a very real possibility. Thanks for pointing that out for me, I missed it the first time around. Why is this thread so dead... So I was mafia because I voted Mig and now I'm mafia because I didn't vote Mig. And although you are basing your accusation on Foolishness' theory about the connection between the wagon for me and the reduced pressure on Mig, now you think I'm mafia even if Mig flips red. Right. | ||
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On August 27 2011 05:19 Lucidity wrote: I realise that this is a Friday, but we're all watching MLG anyway, so no excuses for not being here for the next 6 hours. Yep, I'll be here at least for the next three hours, even if I don't stay up until the deadline, so we should be able to gain a majority for the vote. | ||
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At 10:22 Foolishness wrote: On August 21 2011 10:22 Foolishness wrote: Does anyone think a scum would say such a thing? Especially considering he said this when everyone was voting for Sevryn? And Mig jumped on the opportunity immediately: On August 21 2011 10:34 Mig wrote: Meh did you guys see the post foolish quoted? This is rayzor's first ever game if he were mafia would he really put himself out there like that if he knew sevryn was green? Seems to be the opposite of how most new mafia players would play. I am going to stick with sevryn. My opinion on Rayzor's willingness to be lynched in case Sevryn flips green hasn't changed: he had to do it; backtracking would have made him even more suspicious. So why was Mig willing to remind us of what Foolishness had already said and support the lynch of a townie? P. S. Wherebugsgo, why do you think that Kurumi is town? And does anyone else have a stance on it? | ||
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On August 28 2011 02:28 Kurumi wrote: Are we allowed to post our flavour text, since it is a pm?  | ||
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However, if Vain flips green, Chaoser will get lynched afterwards, so it makes no sense for mafia to attempt this. Unless it's some really bold plan by mafia to trade one for one but the numbers don't work out in their favour. Chaoser, I'm curious why you decided to check Vain out of all? | ||
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nard is 100% mafia. If I die it will be instantly clear how I know this information. Can someone explain it for stupid me what was Foolishness' proof? As a watcher, he saw Nard visit someone or someone visit Nard or? | ||
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On August 28 2011 12:52 chaoser wrote: There is also a possibility that nard isn't mafia and is just nosy neighbor or possibly blue. If the person foolishness was looking at was killed by the godfather and nard also visited then foolishness would only see nard. This is why I said I trust foolishness' call as much as I trust my own. Yeah, that's what I was wondering about. So, basically we have two very suspicious players (Nard and Vain) almost confirmed by two blues (I see no reason to doubt Chaoser's claim) and there is a relatively small possibility that either of the two suspects might be a miller. Which means that we have to decide between the two not because of the information the blues got on them but by everything else they have done. | ||
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On August 28 2011 11:11 chaoser wrote: I fear soon for my life... I am a DT On August 29 2011 01:16 chaoser wrote: I AM ALIVE! The basement is flooded and the tree next to my room fell onto my building but didn't break in BUT I AM ALIVE! Now it's just windy and shit. It all makes sense now ^^ | ||
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On August 29 2011 03:49 wherebugsgo wrote: this is false, foolish never once claimed veteran My bad, it was Jackal who quoted the veteran text and Foolishness never actually confirmed it. | ||
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Sure, there was a serious case on BrownBear when Bumatlarge joined the game, so he must have felt compelled to be active even before reading the thread in depth but we are going after Nard and Vain at the moment. He has a few days to prepare properly and contribute if he is innocent. Instead, he is obsessed with avoiding lynch. + Show Spoiler + I think you are seeing way too much into the "DT dies tonight" claim though. We expected DropBear to be killed on the second night and Foolishness on the third - and now it's safe to assume that Chaoser will follow. Still, Bumatlarge is clearly mafia. I will post on Pyo, Navillus, Erandor and Barundar tomorrow. | ||
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On August 31 2011 01:48 Pyo wrote: kurumi - As far as I'm concerned he isn't even playing this game. I don't read his posts - I might have an aneurism if I actually do. Nice deflection there. | ||
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On August 31 2011 05:23 wherebugsgo wrote:Barundar and I are pretty much confirmed town How is Barundar confirmed?v | ||
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But he also argued against Palmar's wrong read on Mig at a time when the lynch wasn't secure at all - and agreed with the accusations against BrownBear. It's not like he was under pressure to go after them. I can imagine that Pyo, similarly to other townies who got themselves lynched, is overdoing things under pressure. I don't see mafia doing such a bad job at a fake claim, especially when they have a few days to prepare it. Now, I was going to wait a little bit longer to post this (I've been sitting on it for a while now - was waiting to confirm my sanity before saying anything), but I'm convinced that Wherebugsgo is scum, probably Godfather. Why would mafia post this during nighttime and then kill WBG? Surely if mafia wanted us to believe Pyo's claim, they would have kept WBG alive or told Pyo to accuse someone else. The only way I see for both BB/Bum and Pyo to be mafia is that they are constantly arguing with each other with the hope that after one of them flips red, the other will have more town cred. But the DT claim still doesn't make sense.. If BB/Bum flips red tonight, I'd be inclined to give Pyo some more time. On September 01 2011 22:40 Lucidity wrote: Vain has a red check from a DT. And he was seen moving in the night. He has claimed VT. He can't be both a miller and a nosy neighbour. gg? ##vote Vain. If he flips green then chaoser is mafia. What about WBG's last few posts and the role he flipped? | ||
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Also, it would be pretty funny if BB/Bum did frame Vain but then Vain flips Corrupted Liquidian. And ##vote: Bumatlarge | ||
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On September 01 2011 23:30 Pyo wrote: Seriously, where is the connection between me and BB/Bum coming from... People have been saying this all game... What I see is that BB is very likely a framer or a scum medic and that you came out with a very suspicious claim when we were preparing to lynch him. My initial reaction was that mafia are sacrificing a goon (you) to save him (power role) and the rest is in my previous post. I think I explained my thoughts well enough but other people are making different connections between the two of you, so you might want to ask them as well. On September 01 2011 23:45 Pyo wrote: Read SNMMIV... I didn't refuse to comment on Kurumi, I refused to acknowledge that he's playing in this game. Kurumi is an obnoxious, spammy player that always seems scummy - any read on him is a null read. I don't really believe anything he's said or that he actually is what he claimed to be, but chaoser checked him and got green, so assuming chaoser isn't lying, there's nothing else to say about him. There's also a 1 in 6 chance that any mafia will show green - and they might have a framer helping anyway. | ||
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On September 01 2011 20:53 Pyo wrote: herpaderp... just noticed this... as much as I'd like to see vain flip. ##vote bumatlarge I'm gonna totally be kicking myself if it turns out I'm actually sane... How can you be a sane DT? | ||
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That will not happen this game. Midday tomorrow (real time) at the latest I will be making a lurker list, assuming Kurumi actually steps up his play I will push for the day 1 lynch to come from that list, after that I will strongly encourage for vigilantes and mad hatters to start shooting into that list like a bunch of trigger happy Heavies. Right. Now I understand that there are a lot of new players this game, what this means for you is if you're town, post a lot. It's that simple, you don't have to worry about giving a scum read because you're not scum so post every time you have an opinion. If you're scum... yeah you might want to worry, of course if you try to not post I'll get you killed for being on the list, I guess if you're scum you should just concede now. Right... Oh, wait, Navillus ends up being one of the worst lurkers. He posted a lot on Day 1 and then just stopped. Later he claimed that he is busy IRL and that he can not keep with the thread but the thread is very slow now and he is yet to contribute. I reckon that a townie who is busy enough to miss a vote would ask for a replacement beucase of ther inability to contribute, while a mafia would be happy to fly under the radar. On August 21 2011 10:14 Navillus wrote: Ok guys, all the scum voting for Sev obviously won't switch their votes, but if you are town and you are voting for sev please switch it's very unlikely that he's scum because he got bandwagoned so easily and when there were plenty of options he was the one bandwagoned, scum wouldn't let that happen to one of their own this will also let us get better reads on the people who leave their votes on sev. Poor. Although it is possible for a town player to not consider the fact that most Europeans are asleep at 4AM, such negligence shouldn't go unnoticed because it allows mafia to distract us with similar unfounded claims. And if Rayzor is mafia, attempting a switch to him was a dangerous move for mafia players but it was very unlikely to happen, so it was a risk worth taking. And it's even better if Rayzor is green because the whole drama surrounding the switch was an opportunity for mafia to gain town cred. On August 20 2011 23:38 Navillus wrote: I need sleep and can't really think straight but here is the lurker list you all wanted so badly, please, please no need to thank me... Trotske-2 game related posts Lucidity-2 Maybe kinda sorta game related posts Jackal58-1 maybe 2 game related posts (this suprised me, more on it later) Hiro Protagonist-1 game related post Munk-E-1 (large) game related post Darkponcho-NOTHING Vain-2 game related posts Kurumi-No posts for 36+ hours Now this isn't here to try to redirect the conversation we seem to be doing well enough on our own, but the big thing I want noted is I couldn't even start to look for semi-lurkers for the list because there are so many people hardcore lurking right now, this is exactly what I want to avoid because if we keep getting nothing out of 8 people, late game we won't have anything close to a read on them and that's big trouble. Back to the current discussion I am still very suspicious of Palmer but that lynch doesn't look like it will happen, I'm voting xtfftc because for now quicksilver has convinced me but I definitely will be back in time for the lynch and to get a better judgement myself which leads me to We need to decide who our 2 main candidates are soon, if we don't have 2 options in time for everyone to vote based on that then we may well see a no-lynch, that is not good. Last, to palmar, you're suspicious of Brownbear for trying to deflect a lynch, that would naturally imply that the person he's deflecting the lynch from would also be scum, are you still convinced that DB is scum? This post is amazing. BB, just like Navillus, was trying to convince town to lynch someone inactive and thus give a "free pass" (Palmar's words) for non-lurking mafia (like BB and Navillus). But this is just a side-note. But apart from still pursuing his "lurkers should be lynched/killed by vigilantes" agenda, he conveniently reaffirmed his suspicion on Palmar - and then addressed Palmar's best contribution at the very end. Moreover, the way he defended BB was by suggesting that Palmar's case relies on DB being mafia. Here's what Palmar wrote in case you need reminding. But Palmar didn't base his case on a connection between BB and DB. He based it on BB's reaction over Palmar's accusations against DB but there was absolutely nothing about DB being mafia or town. So where does Navillus' suggestion come from? Moreover, DB was acting very suspiciously. He did end up flipping blue but only mafia knew that he wasn't red for sure. So attacking Palmar's case this way doesn't make sense if you are town. + Show Spoiler + And a very very very very very very long shot I'm not really serious about: Kurumi picked on Mig and Navillus at the beginning of the game. Mig flipped red and I am suspicious of Kurumi, so surely Navillus is mafia as well? ^^ In a conclussion, out of the current lurkers, Navillus is the one I am most suspicious of. | ||
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On September 02 2011 01:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Also, I'd like everyone to take a look at Navillus. In particular, I noticed something interesting while looking at the vote-counts. Anyone realize that until we hit scum, Navillus was NOT on the town agreed-upon lynch? In Majority lynch this is a big deal because of the risk of no-lynch. He was able to escape suspicion by not being on any kind of lynch that can be analyzed...I think it's time that end. Anyone else seeing what I see in Navillus? I'm gonna go filter him down and see what I see (this is strictly VCA, I hadn't read his posts yet.) Be my guest, it would be useful to have more than one person go through his posts. It's hard to analyse him because of how inactive he is but this shouldn't allow him to go on unbothered. | ||
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However, it's definitely worth it to see who pointed at Vain prior to Chaoser's check on him. | ||
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On September 02 2011 16:42 xtfftc wrote: However, it's definitely worth it to see who pointed at Vain prior to Chaoser's check on him. Here goes: The one who first put Vain under the spotlight was Foolishness: On August 22 2011 08:59 Foolishness wrote: When the vote count was 8-12 in favor of Sevryn, both Mig and Vain came in and voted for Sevryn, which in turn caused all of us to switch our votes back. If Rayzor is mafia than this could have been a last attempt by the mafia to ensure Sevryn got lynched. Then Erandorr agrees with Vain but doesn't mention Mig: On August 22 2011 22:40 Erandorr wrote: A quick question to the experienced guys : Are you focusing on the guys you know so much because they have the potential to be more dangerous? Because Nard, xtfftc and Vain are just scummy as fuck. + Show Spoiler + Side-note: Erandorr, just like Mig, soft-defended Rayzor on Day 1. On August 21 2011 23:08 Erandorr wrote: But concerning Rayzor , Foolishness pointed out something interesting : What are your thoughts on that? Supersoft joins in immediately to restate his suspicions on Vain (and me) and also doesn't bother mentioning Mig. On August 22 2011 22:42 supersoft wrote: i don't understand this either. I agree with your 3 targets, and I completely forgot about vain! On August 23 2011 04:06 supersoft wrote: it's more like a defense chain rather than a circle... xtfftc defends vain, vain defends you. Because of that i'd like to lynch xtfftc and vain first. There might be the possibility, that you're town and they hope we lynch you and defend you therefor to gain towncredit. But he has been doing this since Day 1... I don't think that he went for me and Vain to ease off the pressure from Mig like Foolishness suggested. It makes much more sense that mafia saw the opportunity and seized it. But frankly, someone else has to go through Supersoft's posts because all of his irrational tunneling has influenced perception of him and I can't figure out whether he is mafia or simply playing poorly. + Show Spoiler + Things that make me suspicious of him that others might want to consider include a lot of spam and pointless one-liners; a lot of restating what he already said without putting anything new on the table; never bothering to explain himself when accused; and, most importantly, not addressing posts that refute his arguments. He has also been pushing for Vain since the beginning of the game but now that Vain has been all but confirmed as not mafia, Supersoft didn't even bother mentioning it. Some now confirmed townies joined in as well: On August 22 2011 23:50 wherebugsgo wrote: Also I want to kill brownbear and vain, take a harder look at Mig and xtfftc. On August 23 2011 00:22 wherebugsgo wrote: I would suggest also that you guys all remember Trotske and Vain. Some of the names from day 1 are being forgotten because of this hardcore tunneling going on. VE I think you're tunnelling too hard on Palmar and are missing other valuable leads we have right now. I say this based off what I read by filtering your posts. On August 23 2011 00:41 Jackal58 wrote: Mig/Vain. Either one. Pick one and lynch the fuck out of them. If Mig flips scum I'm willing to look at Palmar as more of a townie. If Vain flips scum I'm willing to give Foolishness another look see. Neither Foolishness nor Palmar give me a warm fuzzy feeling atm but looking at how Mig and Vain hammered home the lynch on Sevryn without so much as a howdy do I am pretty certain one of them is scum if not both. BB reminded us of Vain a few times but it was to be expected. Also Kurumi, in his typical style: On August 23 2011 21:49 Kurumi wrote: @Vain DB never said this in the thread. You and him need to die. The only thing that might be of some value are Curu's comments on Vain. There are lots of them: + Show Spoiler + On August 21 2011 08:39 Curu wrote: lol Sevyrn I like nard and Rayzor as lynches. Nard and Rayzor are both trying to plan where to point the finger for DB/Sevyrn lynches: hiro protagonist receives the "page full of useless posts" award. Wait no, that goes to JeeJee. Or Vain. darkponcho? Oh, ohhh, chaoser and Mig! We expect more from you two. On August 23 2011 11:14 Curu wrote: I'll be down to lynch chaoser for his general uselessness and jumping all over the OMGUS vote onto Mig (leaning more towards the scum being him now). Vain is someone we should look at, I have no idea why Palmar thinks xtffc is Town. On August 23 2011 11:37 Curu wrote: Ok, this post needs some serious love: This is the best case posted yet IMO. I really don't like this post by Jackal: Coinflip sure, but why Mig? If Town he is undoubtedly the stronger player than Vain. Mig had actually tried to start something about chaoser earlier, whereas Vain jumped in with an absolutely nonsensical post that was complete flip-floppery over Sevyrn/Rayzor yet conveniently landed his vote on Sevyrn and disappeared. He has also shown no interest or contributing or scumhunting, only in defending himself. Vain for sure looked worse than Mig and Mig is for sure the more dangerous player against Mafia. Yet you chose to put your votes on Mig when there was a wagon building up on him from Foolishness/chaoser rather than pursuing Vain. Can you explain this more? xtffc's "two town kills" slip definitely needs to be looked at, and I don't buy his defense. He describes town kills as kills that the Town makes, but that has absolutely nothing to do with modkills. Town does not control modkills, sick slip????? chaoser is a mostly meta argument but he has been so useless this game. His vote is an OMGUS onto Mig and he's done no real scumhunting or Town contributions of his own. Vain: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174&user=53652 0 contributions on day 1, a quickvote on Sevyrn when people were talking about scum likely avoiding the thread. He's become a bit more active now that people suspect him, but with still no relevant contributions. Plunks his top suspect as nard, where it can lie uselessly. DropBear wasn't even on my radar (I thought it was just something Palmar was doing to draw reactions) but Mig's post is excellent. I don't think a chaoser lynch will happen today, but I think any of Vain, xtfftc, or DB are great lynches for today. The Mig/xtfftc wagons ran concurrently, so one may be a case of scum trying to push a diversion wagon. On August 23 2011 22:28 Curu wrote: Vain does. I've said many times that Mig's meta is godawful for Mafia, he has to bus his teammates and make quality posts or he gets shot into the spotlight. Think of Vain like Kenpachi, no one expects him to do anything relevant and he flies under the radar. That scares me much more than someone who has to constantly post and contribute. On August 25 2011 05:48 Curu wrote: Vain somehow is on the edge of everyone's radar but has never become a serious topic of consideration. Let's take a look at his posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174&user=53652 Read this and ask yourself what are Vain's serious contributions? Nothing. His posts consist of calling Palmar Town, casually suggesting nard and xtfftc as scum. Actually, he suggests nard and xtfftc as his top two scumreads with "I dunno" as his third. Let's take a look at the voting thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=256518&user=53652 Oh cool, he has two votes, both of which were extremely late votes on the person who was going to get lynched already. So he gives his top two scumreads when asked (note that he has never surrendered anything willingly) but does -nothing- to try to push his "reads" or draw attention to them/himself. Other than that he says some stuff like "if supersoft is townie we're fucked" - note this is when DB said he had a red check on supersoft. Why is he posting like he thinks supersoft is a Townie? Every other post is completely worthless. Nard is also a topic for everyone but nothing ever solidifies on him. Everything from his first post drips scumminess. He goes through these pointless lists that do nothing, like this: + Show Spoiler + 2. foolishness, why do you think Mig's post is more scummy than the last few posts of servyn? i kinda understand why the post sounds scummy as it adds nothing new and tries to convince, but what is your opinion about servyn then? 3. mig, foolishness has a point which shouldn't be forgotten. "Foolishness - I don't really agree with you that Mig is scummy. Mig - Foolishness is right, you are scummy, don't ignore him" WHAT Other than that leaves vague statements about how Town is doing, deposits his vote uselessly, never tries to lead anything or express an opinion. Like wtf is this post: Every day he includes a list of people he would like to look into or follow up on, every day he manages to only discuss a little bit of useless info then deposit his vote somewhere useless. The case against xtfftc has been worn out, but here's the latest: This is not Pro Town at all and is not indicative of a Pro Town mindset. No Townie can be certain of anyone else's alignment, we have to push our strongest reads. If everyone operated under the condition that if you are wrong you get lynched, nobody would ever try to push their opinions or develop leads. BrownBear doesn't have a single original post or opinion after the throwaway on JeeJee. Yeah you post a wall of text everyday, but it's a post-by-post analysis on one single person. You criticize Palmar for tunnelvision but look at yourself dude, except you don't even seem interested in trying to push your one tunneled person while Palmar is actually trying to get them lynched. chaos13 seems to be 1% less useless than he is when he's playing as scum. VE and Kurumi, I don't even know. On August 27 2011 23:06 Curu wrote: Good shit. I'd like to hear from Rayzor/Nard/Vain/bumatlarge. IMO one of these should be the lynch tomorrow. None of them strikes me as especially suspicious. However, there are a lot of them - more than by anyone else - and most of them are inbetween other accusations. He has posted so much on Vain, suggesting we should pay more attention to him, yet never made a serious stand-alone case on his target. Instead, he is merely updating existing cases made by others. Still, although I am more suspicious of him now than I used to be, Curu is not on my mafia list. | ||
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I'm certain on Chaoser, Lucidity, Barundar and VisceraEyes being town. Less certain but still pretty sure they are town for Chaos13, Curu, Supersoft. Vain as well but only due to WBG catching BB, so I am half-expecting him to flip Corrupted Liquidian. Erandorr is probably town but he is on my to do list, so will post on him later. * Pyo's claim still makes absolutely no sense to me if it comes from a mafia player but after re-reading the posts before his claim I can see that he was under significant pressure. He had a few days in front of him to defend himself properly and start contributing because other players had priority on the lynch list - but he decided not to. | ||
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On September 03 2011 11:11 RayzorFlash wrote: WTF chaoser survives 2 nights after claiming AND saying he found a scum (which was itself made at a really bad time where he could've been trying to cause a mislynch from Mig)? Something isn't right here... I am now way more comfortable with lynching Rayzor than I was before. On September 03 2011 13:40 Pyo wrote: ya know, it was awfully convenient that you happened to be able to confirm your sanity after the first 2 nights and happened to have picked the person who was getting framed as your 3rd check. Ya know, you still haven't technically confirmed that you really are town. If you all are going to lynch me not much more I can do to stop it... I've stated my defense as well as I can, but when I flip blue, I think it's pretty clear who should really be lynched. ##vote: chaoser You just defended Chaoser after Rayzor's attempt to compromise him and now you make a 180° turn. You stated that Rayzor is a likely red; then you checked him and got innocent back, which made you think that you are naive indeed - and then completely forgot about your suspect and decided to join him in discrediting Chaoser? A DT wants to confirm their sanity as soon as possible. Chaoser confirming himself on Night 2 was not convenient - it was imperative. You fake-claimed and this is why you are "pretty sure" that you are naive on Day 6. ok, I didn't want to do the analysis myself because I wanted people to read the thread and come to the correct conclusions themselves Why would a townie not want to help us reach the correct conclussions? And then why would the said townie spent most of their long post on defending himself instead of actually contributing? No, I absolutely wasn't saying BrownBear shouldn't be lynched, I was saying "why was Palmar suddenly changing FoS target?" You would know this if you were actually reading the thread as it was happening. I did actually read the thread before posting my analysis on you earlier. Palmar had five posts about BB already: 1 2 3 4 5, yet you only reacted to the last one. Curu was correct to point this out as mafia behaviour. As for the voting for Vain, I was the 3rd person to vote and first person to vote for vain, I just didn't change my vote, part because it didn't matter and part because vain flipping red would have confirmed my sanity. You were willing to lynch a townie to confirm yourself as being a naive (i.e. useless) DT? Vote: Pyo P.S. If mafia frame a Corrupted Liquidian that a DT checks, does the check return green or red? | ||
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On September 01 2011 22:51 xtfftc wrote: Pyo put more effort into justifying his plan than in executing the plan itself - and it sounds to me as if the idea only occured to him after some of us suggested that he was trying to draw the attention away from somebody else. He also refused to comment on Kurumi, whom I am still suspicious of. But he also argued against Palmar's wrong read on Mig at a time when the lynch wasn't secure at all - and agreed with the accusations against BrownBear. It's not like he was under pressure to go after them. I can imagine that Pyo, similarly to other townies who got themselves lynched, is overdoing things under pressure. I don't see mafia doing such a bad job at a fake claim, especially when they have a few days to prepare it. Why would mafia post this during nighttime and then kill WBG? Surely if mafia wanted us to believe Pyo's claim, they would have kept WBG alive or told Pyo to accuse someone else. The only way I see for both BB/Bum and Pyo to be mafia is that they are constantly arguing with each other with the hope that after one of them flips red, the other will have more town cred. But the DT claim still doesn't make sense.. If BB/Bum flips red tonight, I'd be inclined to give Pyo some more time. I am happy to go for Rayzor or Navillus today instead. ##Unvote yoPyo, you have time to contribute if you are town. You posted on Barundar and Chaos13 but what about the rest? Rayzor, Navillus, myself, Chaoser, etc.? The more you post, the higher your chances to avoid the lynch are. | ||
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On September 03 2011 22:05 Pyo wrote: I don't really have any town cred, so me say "hey guys, I'm innocent and here's why..." is just as likely to be written off by people as "meh whaterver, scum just trying to manipulate town. Precisely, so instead of telling us that you are innocent, post more about other people and let us reach our own conclusions. On September 03 2011 22:05 Pyo wrote: What are you talking about? Here is what he said in those 5 posts you linked: Why would I respond to pointless one-liners? These are much more than one-liners but you have to read the context to figure it out. You don't always need a wall of text to make a case. On September 03 2011 22:05 Pyo wrote: I didn't completely forget that, but rather it just occurred to me that my biggest mistake might have been the assumption that Chaoser was telling the truth. This sounds interesting and I'd like to read more of your thoughts on the issue. And please don't bother replying me to defend yourself; this is completely pointless. Instead, make cases on those you think are mafia. | ||
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On September 04 2011 09:31 RayzorFlash wrote: I was suspicious of chaoser's claim ever since he actually claimed it, check my earlier posts. The longer he stays alive without providing more "useful" information, the more suspicious I get.Especially because of the initial timing of his claim, added to the new information about bum being framer, and in his two nights since then he hasn't provided anything useful except for being roleblocked, and Kurumi coming up green which could be misdirection itself It's not that Chaoser's claim isn't suspicious. The timing of your statement combined with your overall inactivity though... On September 04 2011 15:16 supersoft wrote: pyo isn't a good target. His claim was pretty stange, but i don't think scum would claim like that. He wasn't under pressure at that time. However it's correct, that his voting behaviour and his checks don't make any sense... hmm That's what I thought at first but then I went through the thread again and his name was being mentioned a lot as the one to be lynched after Bum - especially by WBG. However, he was by no means dead already. The main problem I have with lynching Pyo is that we lynched two townies for playing badly on Day 1 and Day 2. Even with Mig and BrownBear gone, the mafia team should be playing better than this. Pyo is doing the same thing Hiro did. On September 04 2011 06:36 Pyo wrote: Since nothing I say seems to be convincing anyone and nobody seems to have read my big long posts explaining my reasoning and my reads on WBG and chaos13 were completely wrong and there are could be traitors present, there isn't much point continuing to defend myself or giving anymore scum reads. Just go ahead and lynch me. Now start thinking about who you will lynch next. If you all are wrong, we'll be in LYLO, so you can't make anymore mistakes. If I am scum, then you should be thinking about who my scum buddies are. Just pick one of your suspects and do a more in-depth analysis. If you are town, you ought to help us catch the mafia. + Show Spoiler + On August 13 2011 08:24 GMarshal wrote: Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing. | ||
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On September 04 2011 21:24 Pyo wrote: Have you not read the thread, or are you just selectively ignoring anything that would stop you from saying stupid shit? Look, there's nothing left for me to say, believe me if you want, lynch me if you don't. I almost don't care anymore. As far as I can tell, the only way town wins TL mafia games is if scum is eliminated before the competent players get eliminated. Town hasn't lynched a single scum target not previously confirmed by a blue read with the possible exception of Mig. The only ones contributing at this point are xtffftc who can't/won't read, curu who can't/won't read, and two other dudes that are probably scum. I mean WTF is this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=256518¤tpage=11#216 Navillus has been lurking and ninja voting all game and now he's ninja voting someone who's already dead. I give up - my bad for claiming at a point where it was 2 mislynches to game over. These are all of your posts. I'm done trying to convince you to do anything, if you don't want to play, you don't have to and can die tonight. On September 04 2011 21:00 Erandorr wrote: Ugh I am getting a bit suspicious of everyone doing their best sevryn impression to be honest. I mean we burned our hands pretty bad and everytime I read some really scummy post of someone I instinctivly think "he probably is just really bad " but look at pyo doing the exact same thing as Hiro did for example. Either he is , like hiro , a butthurt townie who decided to get active when under suspicion and is then surprised that anyone would think its scummy, or a smart Scum player who noticed that we must be so afraid of mislynching again in the same fashion as we did before. True. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Pyo flips DT - and he might even be sane. | ||
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On September 04 2011 22:56 Pyo wrote:You are so obviously scum, it's too bad no one here is willing to pay any attention to it. Ahem. + Show Spoiler + On September 03 2011 22:38 xtfftc wrote: This sounds interesting and I'd like to read more of your thoughts on the issue. On September 04 2011 19:06 xtfftc wrote: It's not that Chaoser's claim isn't suspicious. On September 04 2011 22:08 xtfftc wrote: True. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Pyo flips DT - and he might even be sane. I'll make it clearer - if we end up lynching you and you flip DT, Chaoser is next. But I'm not comfortable with either for tonight. On September 04 2011 23:03 Navillus wrote: That's part but the whole post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174¤tpage=81#1615 ends with him voting mig and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174¤tpage=64#1273 and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174¤tpage=76#1508 which seems small but was the important one to me because palmar is defending mig and I don't think if pyo was scum that he would try to contradict that and bring attention back to his scum-buddy obviously this whole thing is by no means air-tight but I for now am going to be looking more at others and don't think it's likely that pyo is scum. Welcome back, I like this post. Who do you plan to analyse next? | ||
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He build his case on Pyo around the idea that Pyo fake-claimed DT to get Vain killed - and yet Chaoser was the first one to do this. On August 31 2011 11:11 chaoser wrote: Let's hope only 1 of us died, it's not like they can change the kills anymore but I hope they double stacked me, gives us one more day. What is this? Giving advice to the mafia as to why they should not kill him? Surely if he believes that this is what's best for town; he wouldn't explain it to them why they should kill someone else. * This is a close call though. Foolishness, who was Watcher, was dead already, and WBG, who pretty much confirmed himself as Tracker, was targeted the same night, so I find it hard to believe that mafia were scared of visiting Chaoser. Still, it is a plausible explanation. | ||
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On September 05 2011 00:10 chaoser wrote: Why are you not comfortable with pyo's lynch? Who would you rather vote? He's not going to flip DT. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174¤tpage=107#2122 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174¤tpage=108#2158 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174¤tpage=111#2215 Basically his play looks more like a frustrated townie than a mafia. I'd rather lynch Rayzor or Navillus tonight - unless they post something intriguing by then. Could you share your thoughts on Rayzor, Chaoser? You've mentioned him a few times as an issue, yet never explained why or checked him. | ||
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On September 05 2011 01:37 chaoser wrote: You still haven't answered my questions: I did answer - I am not comfortable because I am not convinced that he is mafia and I would rather lynch Rayzor or Navillus. However, you did not answer me about Rayzor. | ||
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For the record, I love it how Navillus appeared to explain why Pyo is not the person we should be lynching and then disappeared again without accusing anyone else. | ||
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On September 05 2011 09:14 Erandorr wrote: If Chaoser survives the night we should probably lynch him Mafia have a roleblocker; there's no need to KP the DT. I'm voting for Rayzor and going to bed. Hope that enough people are around to avoid a no-lynch. | ||
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On September 05 2011 11:58 RayzorFlash wrote: 3 modkills... At least it'll be an interesting day post, even though there wasnt a lynch... We fell one vote short, xtfftc being the last one to switch from Pyo over to me causing a no lynch WTF xt, I havent thought you were scummy since any point after day 2, but this makes me reconsider it If three out of the 9 townies decide not to play anymore, we have no chance anyway. | ||
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On August 21 2011 08:38 Mig wrote: I went to bed broski. After reading back through everything I actually think chaoser is scummier than sevryn. He spent the start of the day making bland fluff posts giving generic advice to town and followed it up with doing absolutely no scum hunting. For comparison look at his posts day1 and day2 of mafia 39 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644&user=41788. In 39 chaoser absolutely dominated as town single handedly taking out half the scum team within the first 2 days. In that game he didn't make any fluff posts giving generic advice, he spent all his time actively pressuring people and doing real scum hunting. And now look at his play and his activity this game. It is the polar opposite. I still think sevryn is scummy but his play is at least similar to his town meta, chaoser is playing completely out of character for his town play and is contributing nothing when he is a very strong player. Vote: Chaoser If people don't switch I will go back to sevryn before the deadline. On August 21 2011 08:56 Mig wrote: The Vet point for chaoser is accurate but there is a pretty huge difference between being such a dominating force and providing detailed and good scum hunting and his play this game. The main thing to look at is chaoser's motivation. In 39 he ran a gambit where he pressure voted early just to try and get a read on a player. He was actively searching for scum, he was questioning people repeatedly early on. This game he has been completely MIA he asked nav like 2 questions, which he didn't follow up on at all. He is putting 0 effort into helping the town when he very capable. An entertaining read, especially if Mig actually posted this for a fellow mafia member ^^ | ||
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On September 08 2011 14:53 Palmar wrote:other people like xtf and wbg played alright-ish once they got the chance to pull their heads out of their asses, but that was just too late. I do not deserve such flattery! On September 08 2011 21:16 Erandorr wrote: To speak very bluntly , if you behave in this agressive manner and lets be honest like abit of a dick, people , especially newer ones, will not listing to you. Personally I had no problem with this but I just don't mind cocky behaviour as long as it is based on something (good contributions in this case). But I must agree that it was often benefitial to mafia - at one point I did not want to agree with Palmar publicly, although he had managed to convince me, just because his attitude was making me doubt him. I'd like to say a few things on my gameplay. Naturally, with this being my first game (apart from some SC2 Mafia but it's nothing like the real thing) I was plain horrible. Considering that, I think I did okay at defending myself and following leads - although it was only after I died that I realised how much of my analysis was based on people lurking, which was completely wrong. I did pretty bad as medic, of course. I was happy with my decision not to protect Chaoser after his claim... only to find out that Curu, whom I healed instead, was mafia as well. And it got even worse when I convinced myself that I should actually protect Chaoser and did it the second night after his claim. :/ I wouldn't normally reveal my thinking but I feel like I should defend myself (really scummy, I know). Being a blue, I started the game with the idea to be a bit suspicious in order to avoid the attention of the mafia. Pretty soon I realised that this plan wasn't that smart, of course: mafia were going to be much more interested in the veteran players and by attracting the attention to myself I was simply giving them an easier ride. Also, the way I executed this strategy was rather poor. Some of the suspicious things I did were planned but others were completely unintentional. I did annoy Supersoft on purpose once I felt safe enough though. I thought it'd be a good idea to observe other people's reactions to it. Which would have been great - if only I had trusted myself enough to finish what I started. It made me really suspicious of Curu and I wrote a case against him but never posted it because I was sure that quite a few townies would instantly read it as an OMGUS reaction. Now I know better not to worry too much about people freaking out. It is bound to happen, so it shouldn't stop a townie from revealing their thought process - even when their findings are flat out wrong. Also, now that I am rereading the thread, I notice that Erandorr also did exactly what I was hoping for mafia to do - but I forgot about it immediately as well. Anyway, I have a question. I decided to protect Foolishness on night 2 and 3, although I thought that it wasn't a good move: I was sure that mafia would either stack KPs on him or eliminate others. What is a good strategy for medic in this case? Is it all WIFOM? (if they expect me to protect him, they'll go for someone else; but if I expect them to go for someone else, I don't have to protect him; but then they don't have to stack KPs on him and can use just one; etc....) | ||
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