|
Pyo put more effort into justifying his plan than in executing the plan itself - and it sounds to me as if the idea only occured to him after some of us suggested that he was trying to draw the attention away from somebody else. He also refused to comment on Kurumi, whom I am still suspicious of.
But he also argued against Palmar's wrong read on Mig at a time when the lynch wasn't secure at all - and agreed with the accusations against BrownBear. It's not like he was under pressure to go after them. I can imagine that Pyo, similarly to other townies who got themselves lynched, is overdoing things under pressure. I don't see mafia doing such a bad job at a fake claim, especially when they have a few days to prepare it.
Now, I was going to wait a little bit longer to post this (I've been sitting on it for a while now - was waiting to confirm my sanity before saying anything), but I'm convinced that Wherebugsgo is scum, probably Godfather.
Why would mafia post this during nighttime and then kill WBG? Surely if mafia wanted us to believe Pyo's claim, they would have kept WBG alive or told Pyo to accuse someone else. The only way I see for both BB/Bum and Pyo to be mafia is that they are constantly arguing with each other with the hope that after one of them flips red, the other will have more town cred. But the DT claim still doesn't make sense.. If BB/Bum flips red tonight, I'd be inclined to give Pyo some more time.
On September 01 2011 22:40 Lucidity wrote:
Vain has a red check from a DT.
And he was seen moving in the night.
He has claimed VT.
He can't be both a miller and a nosy neighbour.
gg?
##vote Vain.
If he flips green then chaoser is mafia.
What about WBG's last few posts and the role he flipped?
|
P.S. There's five dead blues already, Chaoser is likely another one. If both Pyo and Kurumi's claims are valid, this means a total of eight. How many blues can we expect to have with this setup?
Also, it would be pretty funny if BB/Bum did frame Vain but then Vain flips Corrupted Liquidian.
And ##vote: Bumatlarge
|
On September 01 2011 23:30 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 22:51 xtfftc wrote:
Why would mafia post this during nighttime and then kill WBG? Surely if mafia wanted us to believe Pyo's claim, they would have kept WBG alive or told Pyo to accuse someone else. The only way I see for both BB/Bum and Pyo to be mafia is that they are constantly arguing with each other with the hope that after one of them flips red, the other will have more town cred. But the DT claim still doesn't make sense.. If BB/Bum flips red tonight, I'd be inclined to give Pyo some more time.
Seriously, where is the connection between me and BB/Bum coming from... People have been saying this all game...
What I see is that BB is very likely a framer or a scum medic and that you came out with a very suspicious claim when we were preparing to lynch him. My initial reaction was that mafia are sacrificing a goon (you) to save him (power role) and the rest is in my previous post. I think I explained my thoughts well enough but other people are making different connections between the two of you, so you might want to ask them as well.
On September 01 2011 23:45 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 22:51 xtfftc wrote:
Pyo put more effort into justifying his plan than in executing the plan itself - and it sounds to me as if the idea only occured to him after some of us suggested that he was trying to draw the attention away from somebody else. He also refused to comment on Kurumi, whom I am still suspicious of.
Read SNMMIV... I didn't refuse to comment on Kurumi, I refused to acknowledge that he's playing in this game. Kurumi is an obnoxious, spammy player that always seems scummy - any read on him is a null read. I don't really believe anything he's said or that he actually is what he claimed to be, but chaoser checked him and got green, so assuming chaoser isn't lying, there's nothing else to say about him.
There's also a 1 in 6 chance that any mafia will show green - and they might have a framer helping anyway.
|
On September 01 2011 20:53 Pyo wrote:herpaderp... just noticed this... as much as I'd like to see vain flip. ##vote bumatlarge I'm gonna totally be kicking myself if it turns out I'm actually sane...
How can you be a sane DT?
|
Navillus.
That will not happen this game. Midday tomorrow (real time) at the latest I will be making a lurker list, assuming Kurumi actually steps up his play I will push for the day 1 lynch to come from that list, after that I will strongly encourage for vigilantes and mad hatters to start shooting into that list like a bunch of trigger happy Heavies.
Right.
Now I understand that there are a lot of new players this game, what this means for you is if you're town, post a lot. It's that simple, you don't have to worry about giving a scum read because you're not scum so post every time you have an opinion. If you're scum... yeah you might want to worry, of course if you try to not post I'll get you killed for being on the list, I guess if you're scum you should just concede now.
Right...
Oh, wait, Navillus ends up being one of the worst lurkers. He posted a lot on Day 1 and then just stopped. Later he claimed that he is busy IRL and that he can not keep with the thread but the thread is very slow now and he is yet to contribute. I reckon that a townie who is busy enough to miss a vote would ask for a replacement beucase of ther inability to contribute, while a mafia would be happy to fly under the radar.
On August 21 2011 10:14 Navillus wrote:
Ok guys, all the scum voting for Sev obviously won't switch their votes, but if you are town and you are voting for sev please switch it's very unlikely that he's scum because he got bandwagoned so easily and when there were plenty of options he was the one bandwagoned, scum wouldn't let that happen to one of their own this will also let us get better reads on the people who leave their votes on sev.
Poor. Although it is possible for a town player to not consider the fact that most Europeans are asleep at 4AM, such negligence shouldn't go unnoticed because it allows mafia to distract us with similar unfounded claims. And if Rayzor is mafia, attempting a switch to him was a dangerous move for mafia players but it was very unlikely to happen, so it was a risk worth taking. And it's even better if Rayzor is green because the whole drama surrounding the switch was an opportunity for mafia to gain town cred.
On August 20 2011 23:38 Navillus wrote:
I need sleep and can't really think straight but here is the lurker list you all wanted so badly, please, please no need to thank me...
Trotske-2 game related posts
Lucidity-2 Maybe kinda sorta game related posts
Jackal58-1 maybe 2 game related posts (this suprised me, more on it later)
Hiro Protagonist-1 game related post
Munk-E-1 (large) game related post
Darkponcho-NOTHING
Vain-2 game related posts
Kurumi-No posts for 36+ hours
Now this isn't here to try to redirect the conversation we seem to be doing well enough on our own, but the big thing I want noted is I couldn't even start to look for semi-lurkers for the list because there are so many people hardcore lurking right now, this is exactly what I want to avoid because if we keep getting nothing out of 8 people, late game we won't have anything close to a read on them and that's big trouble.
Back to the current discussion I am still very suspicious of Palmer but that lynch doesn't look like it will happen, I'm voting xtfftc because for now quicksilver has convinced me but I definitely will be back in time for the lynch and to get a better judgement myself which leads me to
We need to decide who our 2 main candidates are soon, if we don't have 2 options in time for everyone to vote based on that then we may well see a no-lynch, that is not good.
Last, to palmar, you're suspicious of Brownbear for trying to deflect a lynch, that would naturally imply that the person he's deflecting the lynch from would also be scum, are you still convinced that DB is scum?
This post is amazing. BB, just like Navillus, was trying to convince town to lynch someone inactive and thus give a "free pass" (Palmar's words) for non-lurking mafia (like BB and Navillus). But this is just a side-note.
But apart from still pursuing his "lurkers should be lynched/killed by vigilantes" agenda, he conveniently reaffirmed his suspicion on Palmar - and then addressed Palmar's best contribution at the very end.
Moreover, the way he defended BB was by suggesting that Palmar's case relies on DB being mafia. Here's what Palmar wrote in case you need reminding.
But Palmar didn't base his case on a connection between BB and DB. He based it on BB's reaction over Palmar's accusations against DB but there was absolutely nothing about DB being mafia or town. So where does Navillus' suggestion come from?
Moreover, DB was acting very suspiciously. He did end up flipping blue but only mafia knew that he wasn't red for sure. So attacking Palmar's case this way doesn't make sense if you are town.
+ Show Spoiler +And a very very very very very very long shot I'm not really serious about: Kurumi picked on Mig and Navillus at the beginning of the game. Mig flipped red and I am suspicious of Kurumi, so surely Navillus is mafia as well? ^^
In a conclussion, out of the current lurkers, Navillus is the one I am most suspicious of.
|
On September 02 2011 01:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Also, I'd like everyone to take a look at Navillus. In particular, I noticed something interesting while looking at the vote-counts. Anyone realize that until we hit scum, Navillus was NOT on the town agreed-upon lynch? In Majority lynch this is a big deal because of the risk of no-lynch.
He was able to escape suspicion by not being on any kind of lynch that can be analyzed...I think it's time that end. Anyone else seeing what I see in Navillus? I'm gonna go filter him down and see what I see (this is strictly VCA, I hadn't read his posts yet.)
Be my guest, it would be useful to have more than one person go through his posts. It's hard to analyse him because of how inactive he is but this shouldn't allow him to go on unbothered.
|
Why did you investigate Jackal on the first night, Vain the second, Erandorr the third and me last night? I'd appreciate it if you guide me through your thought process for each night.
|
It's hard to say really. He's mentioned Nard (red), Vain (framed), Lucidity (probably town), myself (100% town ^^), Rayzor (suspicious) and Kurumi (also suspicious). So he has been trying to mix in reds to gain town cred. And anyway, the only target he has been pushing hard was Vain really.
However, it's definitely worth it to see who pointed at Vain prior to Chaoser's check on him.
|
On September 02 2011 16:42 xtfftc wrote:
However, it's definitely worth it to see who pointed at Vain prior to Chaoser's check on him.
Here goes:
The one who first put Vain under the spotlight was Foolishness:
On August 22 2011 08:59 Foolishness wrote:
When the vote count was 8-12 in favor of Sevryn, both Mig and Vain came in and voted for Sevryn, which in turn caused all of us to switch our votes back. If Rayzor is mafia than this could have been a last attempt by the mafia to ensure Sevryn got lynched.
Then Erandorr agrees with Vain but doesn't mention Mig:
On August 22 2011 22:40 Erandorr wrote:A quick question to the experienced guys : Are you focusing on the guys you know so much because they have the potential to be more dangerous? Because Nard, xtfftc and Vain are just scummy as fuck. Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 10:38 Foolishness wrote:
Can someone remind me tomorrow that we should kill Vain?
+ Show Spoiler +Side-note: Erandorr, just like Mig, soft-defended Rayzor on Day 1. On August 21 2011 23:08 Erandorr wrote:But concerning Rayzor , Foolishness pointed out something interesting : Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 10:22 Foolishness wrote:On August 21 2011 06:02 RayzorFlash wrote:
Sure, I'll gladly take the fall if Sev proves to be green, but I don't think there was anything scummy at all about my post. I think it would be good leads to go after anyone aggressively pushing for Sev if he's green, and I know i'm included in that list :S. Does anyone think a scum would say such a thing? Especially considering he said this when everyone was voting for Sevryn? What are your thoughts on that?
Supersoft joins in immediately to restate his suspicions on Vain (and me) and also doesn't bother mentioning Mig.
On August 22 2011 22:42 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2011 22:40 Erandorr wrote:On August 22 2011 22:25 xtfftc wrote:
You know, here and there. Where are you? Hes actually contributing. I am at work and do not have much time, I will be available in roughly 3 hours I guess A quick question to the experienced guys : Are you focusing on the guys you know so much because they have the potential to be more dangerous? Because Nard, xtfftc and Vain are just scummy as fuck. On August 21 2011 10:38 Foolishness wrote:
Can someone remind me tomorrow that we should kill Vain? i don't understand this either. I agree with your 3 targets, and I completely forgot about vain!
On August 23 2011 04:06 supersoft wrote:
it's more like a defense chain rather than a circle... xtfftc defends vain, vain defends you. Because of that i'd like to lynch xtfftc and vain first.
There might be the possibility, that you're town and they hope we lynch you and defend you therefor to gain towncredit.
But he has been doing this since Day 1... I don't think that he went for me and Vain to ease off the pressure from Mig like Foolishness suggested. It makes much more sense that mafia saw the opportunity and seized it. But frankly, someone else has to go through Supersoft's posts because all of his irrational tunneling has influenced perception of him and I can't figure out whether he is mafia or simply playing poorly. + Show Spoiler +Things that make me suspicious of him that others might want to consider include a lot of spam and pointless one-liners; a lot of restating what he already said without putting anything new on the table; never bothering to explain himself when accused; and, most importantly, not addressing posts that refute his arguments. He has also been pushing for Vain since the beginning of the game but now that Vain has been all but confirmed as not mafia, Supersoft didn't even bother mentioning it.
Some now confirmed townies joined in as well:
On August 22 2011 23:50 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also I want to kill brownbear and vain, take a harder look at Mig and xtfftc.
On August 23 2011 00:22 wherebugsgo wrote:
I would suggest also that you guys all remember Trotske and Vain. Some of the names from day 1 are being forgotten because of this hardcore tunneling going on. VE I think you're tunnelling too hard on Palmar and are missing other valuable leads we have right now. I say this based off what I read by filtering your posts.
On August 23 2011 00:41 Jackal58 wrote:
Mig/Vain. Either one. Pick one and lynch the fuck out of them. If Mig flips scum I'm willing to look at Palmar as more of a townie. If Vain flips scum I'm willing to give Foolishness another look see.
Neither Foolishness nor Palmar give me a warm fuzzy feeling atm but looking at how Mig and Vain hammered home the lynch on Sevryn without so much as a howdy do I am pretty certain one of them is scum if not both.
BB reminded us of Vain a few times but it was to be expected.
Also Kurumi, in his typical style:
On August 23 2011 21:49 Kurumi wrote:
@Vain
DB never said this in the thread. You and him need to die.
The only thing that might be of some value are Curu's comments on Vain. There are lots of them:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 21 2011 08:39 Curu wrote:lol Sevyrn I like nard and Rayzor as lynches. Nard and Rayzor are both trying to plan where to point the finger for DB/Sevyrn lynches: Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 04:55 RayzorFlash wrote:
Town right now loses NOTHING by lynching Sev. If he flips red, we immediately know who to go after next, i.e. the people defending him, or the people trying to get someone else lynched first. If he flips green, we can target the ones who have most aggressively tried to get him lynched. Its a win-win situation. Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 20:42 nard wrote:
regarding the early accusations: i see nothing yet which lets me believe we have a scum for certain. but i am damaged from last mini mafia: if dropbear ever dies and turns out to be not scum, Palmar is on my hit list :D hiro protagonist receives the "page full of useless posts" award. Wait no, that goes to JeeJee. Or Vain. darkponcho? Oh, ohhh, chaoser and Mig! We expect more from you two. On August 23 2011 11:14 Curu wrote:
I'll be down to lynch chaoser for his general uselessness and jumping all over the OMGUS vote onto Mig (leaning more towards the scum being him now).
Vain is someone we should look at, I have no idea why Palmar thinks xtffc is Town. On August 23 2011 11:37 Curu wrote:Ok, this post needs some serious love: Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 10:28 Mig wrote:I know some people are going to cry omgus omgus vote here but I wanted to go back and look through all the posts of the people jumping on my bandwagon first. And dropbear looks extremely scummy to me. Here are the points against him 1) His play at the start of the game. Dropbear starts the game off with fluff posts concerning no lynches and his mayor thing. While palmar is attacking him and generating actual discussion that can be used to find scum, db is deflecting the discussion onto unrelated subjects. And as soon as soon as palmar calls him out on this db tries to turn it around and tries to actually take credit for getting discussion started. When really he has done 0 scum hunting and all his posts are bland ways to look like you are contributing. 2) Contradictions. Look at some of these quotes by db. On August 21 2011 07:32 DropBear wrote:
I WOULD LIKE TO LYNCH HIRO PROTAGONIST
- Voting sevryn just because. No reasoning given.
On August 21 2011 07:49 DropBear wrote:
- I think the case against Mig is at this point non-existent
Ok so he wants to lynch hiro for not giving reasons for his sevryn vote, he also thinks there is no case against me. Then this is his post where he votes me on day2. On August 23 2011 04:25 DropBear wrote:Ok so I'm ok with hiro now, he tried to lead the lynch off sevryn who flipped town so he gets brownies, at least temporarily. On August 23 2011 04:15 supersoft wrote:
i just saw, mig already stacked 3 votes on him. Like I said earlier, I don't trust him etc. but for me it's too early to lynch him. Do show me where! If you don't trust him, why not lynch now? ##Vote Mig Gives absolutely no reasons for voting me even though he had said earlier there was no case against me huh? What changed your mind dropbear? He also states he is fine with hiro now for trying to deflect the sevryn lynch when I had done the exact same thing. 3) Activity. Don't look at the amount of posts DB has overall but look at when he is active. He was extremely active right at the start of day 1 posting where he has a bunch of fluff and tried to claim town cred for it. However what about after that? He pretty much disappears then shows up right before the end of day 1 makes 2 short posts attacking hiro and chaoser and disappears. So he introduced 2 new candidates right at the end of the day BUT didn't stick around to actually push for their lynches. He knew sevryn was going to flip green and didn't want to get any backlash from it so instead he posted a couple short cases against people not in danger of being lynched and then vanished to let the town argue amongst themselves. And what about day2? We are 24 hours in and db has one post. This is classic mafia activity. Active right at the start of the game where he is trying to buy town cred for himself but once we get deeper in and real analysis starts he is completely MIA. So seriously look at DB's posts and ask yourself what his motivations are. Has he put any effort into scum hunting? Does he care if town makes the correct decisions? No. He comes in posts a ton at the start to buy credit but afterwards he basically sits out of the sevryn lynch, doesn't push for the people he actually thinks are scummy to be lynched at all and then on day2 he votes for me because it is a chance to jump on a bandwagon to get a strong town player lynched even though he had said earlier there was no case against me.
#Vote Dropbear This is the best case posted yet IMO. I really don't like this post by Jackal: Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 09:24 Jackal58 wrote:On August 23 2011 09:19 Mig wrote:
Jackal - gives no reason whatsoever for voting me
Sure I did. It was a coin flip between you and Vain. It was your late vote on Sevryn to hammer home a lynch when it was almost shifted to Rayzor. Explain please. Coinflip sure, but why Mig? If Town he is undoubtedly the stronger player than Vain. Mig had actually tried to start something about chaoser earlier, whereas Vain jumped in with an absolutely nonsensical post that was complete flip-floppery over Sevyrn/Rayzor yet conveniently landed his vote on Sevyrn and disappeared. He has also shown no interest or contributing or scumhunting, only in defending himself. Vain for sure looked worse than Mig and Mig is for sure the more dangerous player against Mafia. Yet you chose to put your votes on Mig when there was a wagon building up on him from Foolishness/chaoser rather than pursuing Vain. Can you explain this more? xtffc's "two town kills" slip definitely needs to be looked at, and I don't buy his defense. He describes town kills as kills that the Town makes, but that has absolutely nothing to do with modkills. Town does not control modkills, sick slip????? chaoser is a mostly meta argument but he has been so useless this game. His vote is an OMGUS onto Mig and he's done no real scumhunting or Town contributions of his own. Vain: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174&user=536520 contributions on day 1, a quickvote on Sevyrn when people were talking about scum likely avoiding the thread. He's become a bit more active now that people suspect him, but with still no relevant contributions. Plunks his top suspect as nard, where it can lie uselessly. DropBear wasn't even on my radar (I thought it was just something Palmar was doing to draw reactions) but Mig's post is excellent. I don't think a chaoser lynch will happen today, but I think any of Vain, xtfftc, or DB are great lynches for today. The Mig/xtfftc wagons ran concurrently, so one may be a case of scum trying to push a diversion wagon. On August 23 2011 22:28 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 22:26 Jackal58 wrote:On August 23 2011 11:37 Curu wrote:I really don't like this post by Jackal: On August 23 2011 09:24 Jackal58 wrote:On August 23 2011 09:19 Mig wrote:
Jackal - gives no reason whatsoever for voting me
Sure I did. It was a coin flip between you and Vain. It was your late vote on Sevryn to hammer home a lynch when it was almost shifted to Rayzor. Explain please. Coinflip sure, but why Mig? If Town he is undoubtedly the stronger player than Vain. Mig had actually tried to start something about chaoser earlier, whereas Vain jumped in with an absolutely nonsensical post that was complete flip-floppery over Sevyrn/Rayzor yet conveniently landed his vote on Sevyrn and disappeared. He has also shown no interest or contributing or scumhunting, only in defending himself. Vain for sure looked worse than Mig and Mig is for sure the more dangerous player against Mafia. Yet you chose to put your votes on Mig when there was a wagon building up on him from Foolishness/chaoser rather than pursuing Vain. Can you explain this more? Who the hell scares you more as scum? Mig? Or Vain? I had issues with both. I asked the same question of both. I'm still undecided on both. DB vs SS Lynch SS. If he is not what DB presents him as we lynch DB. It's a 1 for 1 trade. Scum don't like 1 for 1 trades.I don't know why there is any issue with this. Inspite of Barundars best Ace impersonation lynching the DT first is stupid. Errandorr - Flavor text is the storyline in your role PM. Instead of - You are townie, you get a story. Vain does. I've said many times that Mig's meta is godawful for Mafia, he has to bus his teammates and make quality posts or he gets shot into the spotlight. Think of Vain like Kenpachi, no one expects him to do anything relevant and he flies under the radar. That scares me much more than someone who has to constantly post and contribute. On August 25 2011 05:48 Curu wrote:Vain somehow is on the edge of everyone's radar but has never become a serious topic of consideration. Let's take a look at his posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254174&user=53652Read this and ask yourself what are Vain's serious contributions? Nothing. His posts consist of calling Palmar Town, casually suggesting nard and xtfftc as scum. Actually, he suggests nard and xtfftc as his top two scumreads with "I dunno" as his third. Let's take a look at the voting thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=256518&user=53652Oh cool, he has two votes, both of which were extremely late votes on the person who was going to get lynched already. So he gives his top two scumreads when asked (note that he has never surrendered anything willingly) but does -nothing- to try to push his "reads" or draw attention to them/himself. Other than that he says some stuff like "if supersoft is townie we're fucked" - note this is when DB said he had a red check on supersoft. Why is he posting like he thinks supersoft is a Townie? Every other post is completely worthless. Nard is also a topic for everyone but nothing ever solidifies on him. Everything from his first post drips scumminess. He goes through these pointless lists that do nothing, like this: + Show Spoiler +2. foolishness, why do you think Mig's post is more scummy than the last few posts of servyn? i kinda understand why the post sounds scummy as it adds nothing new and tries to convince, but what is your opinion about servyn then?
3. mig, foolishness has a point which shouldn't be forgotten. "Foolishness - I don't really agree with you that Mig is scummy. Mig - Foolishness is right, you are scummy, don't ignore him" WHAT Other than that leaves vague statements about how Town is doing, deposits his vote uselessly, never tries to lead anything or express an opinion. Like wtf is this post: Show nested quote +here are my notes on hiro, will read up on Mig now. i have no idea what agenda hiro is pushing, except a way to obvious scummy one. Every day he includes a list of people he would like to look into or follow up on, every day he manages to only discuss a little bit of useless info then deposit his vote somewhere useless. The case against xtfftc has been worn out, but here's the latest: Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 09:22 xtfftc wrote:
Palmar, are you happy to push Chaos13's lynch with the condition that in case he is town, you die next?
This is not Pro Town at all and is not indicative of a Pro Town mindset. No Townie can be certain of anyone else's alignment, we have to push our strongest reads. If everyone operated under the condition that if you are wrong you get lynched, nobody would ever try to push their opinions or develop leads. BrownBear doesn't have a single original post or opinion after the throwaway on JeeJee. Yeah you post a wall of text everyday, but it's a post-by-post analysis on one single person. You criticize Palmar for tunnelvision but look at yourself dude, except you don't even seem interested in trying to push your one tunneled person while Palmar is actually trying to get them lynched. chaos13 seems to be 1% less useless than he is when he's playing as scum. VE and Kurumi, I don't even know. On August 27 2011 23:06 Curu wrote:
Good shit.
I'd like to hear from Rayzor/Nard/Vain/bumatlarge. IMO one of these should be the lynch tomorrow.
None of them strikes me as especially suspicious. However, there are a lot of them - more than by anyone else - and most of them are inbetween other accusations. He has posted so much on Vain, suggesting we should pay more attention to him, yet never made a serious stand-alone case on his target. Instead, he is merely updating existing cases made by others.
Still, although I am more suspicious of him now than I used to be, Curu is not on my mafia list.
|
From most to least suspicious: Pyo*, Navillus (that's you <3), Rayzor, Kurumi. If one of the first three flips green, then Kurumi gets my vote for mafia.
I'm certain on Chaoser, Lucidity, Barundar and VisceraEyes being town.
Less certain but still pretty sure they are town for Chaos13, Curu, Supersoft. Vain as well but only due to WBG catching BB, so I am half-expecting him to flip Corrupted Liquidian.
Erandorr is probably town but he is on my to do list, so will post on him later.
* Pyo's claim still makes absolutely no sense to me if it comes from a mafia player but after re-reading the posts before his claim I can see that he was under significant pressure. He had a few days in front of him to defend himself properly and start contributing because other players had priority on the lynch list - but he decided not to.
|
On September 03 2011 11:11 RayzorFlash wrote:
WTF chaoser survives 2 nights after claiming AND saying he found a scum (which was itself made at a really bad time where he could've been trying to cause a mislynch from Mig)?
Something isn't right here...
I am now way more comfortable with lynching Rayzor than I was before.
On September 03 2011 13:40 Pyo wrote:
ya know, it was awfully convenient that you happened to be able to confirm your sanity after the first 2 nights and happened to have picked the person who was getting framed as your 3rd check. Ya know, you still haven't technically confirmed that you really are town.
If you all are going to lynch me not much more I can do to stop it... I've stated my defense as well as I can, but when I flip blue, I think it's pretty clear who should really be lynched.
##vote: chaoser
You just defended Chaoser after Rayzor's attempt to compromise him and now you make a 180° turn. You stated that Rayzor is a likely red; then you checked him and got innocent back, which made you think that you are naive indeed - and then completely forgot about your suspect and decided to join him in discrediting Chaoser?
A DT wants to confirm their sanity as soon as possible. Chaoser confirming himself on Night 2 was not convenient - it was imperative. You fake-claimed and this is why you are "pretty sure" that you are naive on Day 6.
ok, I didn't want to do the analysis myself because I wanted people to read the thread and come to the correct conclusions themselves
Why would a townie not want to help us reach the correct conclussions? And then why would the said townie spent most of their long post on defending himself instead of actually contributing?
No, I absolutely wasn't saying BrownBear shouldn't be lynched, I was saying "why was Palmar suddenly changing FoS target?" You would know this if you were actually reading the thread as it was happening.
I did actually read the thread before posting my analysis on you earlier. Palmar had five posts about BB already: 1 2 3 4 5, yet you only reacted to the last one. Curu was correct to point this out as mafia behaviour.
As for the voting for Vain, I was the 3rd person to vote and first person to vote for vain, I just didn't change my vote, part because it didn't matter and part because vain flipping red would have confirmed my sanity.
You were willing to lynch a townie to confirm yourself as being a naive (i.e. useless) DT?
Vote: Pyo
P.S. If mafia frame a Corrupted Liquidian that a DT checks, does the check return green or red?
|
Actually, we still have ~35 hours to decide and I am still not sure about Pyo's claim. This is what I posted about it earlier + Show Spoiler +On September 01 2011 22:51 xtfftc wrote:Pyo put more effort into justifying his plan than in executing the plan itself - and it sounds to me as if the idea only occured to him after some of us suggested that he was trying to draw the attention away from somebody else. He also refused to comment on Kurumi, whom I am still suspicious of. But he also argued against Palmar's wrong read on Mig at a time when the lynch wasn't secure at all - and agreed with the accusations against BrownBear. It's not like he was under pressure to go after them. I can imagine that Pyo, similarly to other townies who got themselves lynched, is overdoing things under pressure. I don't see mafia doing such a bad job at a fake claim, especially when they have a few days to prepare it. Show nested quote +Now, I was going to wait a little bit longer to post this (I've been sitting on it for a while now - was waiting to confirm my sanity before saying anything), but I'm convinced that Wherebugsgo is scum, probably Godfather. Why would mafia post this during nighttime and then kill WBG? Surely if mafia wanted us to believe Pyo's claim, they would have kept WBG alive or told Pyo to accuse someone else. The only way I see for both BB/Bum and Pyo to be mafia is that they are constantly arguing with each other with the hope that after one of them flips red, the other will have more town cred. But the DT claim still doesn't make sense.. If BB/Bum flips red tonight, I'd be inclined to give Pyo some more time.
I am happy to go for Rayzor or Navillus today instead.
##Unvote yo
Pyo, you have time to contribute if you are town. You posted on Barundar and Chaos13 but what about the rest? Rayzor, Navillus, myself, Chaoser, etc.? The more you post, the higher your chances to avoid the lynch are.
|
On September 03 2011 22:05 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 17:01 xtfftc wrote:ok, I didn't want to do the analysis myself because I wanted people to read the thread and come to the correct conclusions themselves Why would a townie not want to help us reach the correct conclussions? And then why would the said townie spent most of their long post on defending himself instead of actually contributing? I don't really have any town cred, so me say "hey guys, I'm innocent and here's why..." is just as likely to be written off by people as "meh whaterver, scum just trying to manipulate town.
Precisely, so instead of telling us that you are innocent, post more about other people and let us reach our own conclusions.
On September 03 2011 22:05 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 17:01 xtfftc wrote:No, I absolutely wasn't saying BrownBear shouldn't be lynched, I was saying "why was Palmar suddenly changing FoS target?" You would know this if you were actually reading the thread as it was happening. I did actually read the thread before posting my analysis on you earlier. Palmar had five posts about BB already: 1 2 3 4 5, yet you only reacted to the last one. Curu was correct to point this out as mafia behaviour. What are you talking about? Here is what he said in those 5 posts you linked: Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 03:51 Palmar wrote:
Also, you seem to be advocating lynching lurkers quite heavily. Care to elaborate on that?
Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 03:53 Palmar wrote:
I just want to point out I now think Brownbear is scum too. Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 04:05 Palmar wrote:
Well, I read that as any scummy asshole with a plan is going to get a free bye on day 1, because you want to lynch someone inactive?
Or does, the free pass on making plans and blanket statements to avoid the lynch only extend to a specific pool of people? Why would I respond to pointless one-liners?
These are much more than one-liners but you have to read the context to figure it out. You don't always need a wall of text to make a case.
On September 03 2011 22:05 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 17:01 xtfftc wrote:On September 03 2011 13:40 Pyo wrote:
ya know, it was awfully convenient that you happened to be able to confirm your sanity after the first 2 nights and happened to have picked the person who was getting framed as your 3rd check. Ya know, you still haven't technically confirmed that you really are town.
If you all are going to lynch me not much more I can do to stop it... I've stated my defense as well as I can, but when I flip blue, I think it's pretty clear who should really be lynched.
##vote: chaoser You just defended Chaoser after Rayzor's attempt to compromise him and now you make a 180° turn. You stated that Rayzor is a likely red; then you checked him and got innocent back, which made you think that you are naive indeed - and then completely forgot about your suspect and decided to join him in discrediting Chaoser? I didn't completely forget that, but rather it just occurred to me that my biggest mistake might have been the assumption that Chaoser was telling the truth.
This sounds interesting and I'd like to read more of your thoughts on the issue. And please don't bother replying me to defend yourself; this is completely pointless. Instead, make cases on those you think are mafia.
|
On September 04 2011 09:31 RayzorFlash wrote:
I was suspicious of chaoser's claim ever since he actually claimed it, check my earlier posts. The longer he stays alive without providing more "useful" information, the more suspicious I get.Especially because of the initial timing of his claim, added to the new information about bum being framer, and in his two nights since then he hasn't provided anything useful except for being roleblocked, and Kurumi coming up green which could be misdirection itself
It's not that Chaoser's claim isn't suspicious. The timing of your statement combined with your overall inactivity though...
On September 04 2011 15:16 supersoft wrote:
pyo isn't a good target. His claim was pretty stange, but i don't think scum would claim like that.
He wasn't under pressure at that time. However it's correct, that his voting behaviour and his checks don't make any sense...
hmm
That's what I thought at first but then I went through the thread again and his name was being mentioned a lot as the one to be lynched after Bum - especially by WBG. However, he was by no means dead already.
The main problem I have with lynching Pyo is that we lynched two townies for playing badly on Day 1 and Day 2. Even with Mig and BrownBear gone, the mafia team should be playing better than this. Pyo is doing the same thing Hiro did.
On September 04 2011 06:36 Pyo wrote:
Since nothing I say seems to be convincing anyone and nobody seems to have read my big long posts explaining my reasoning and my reads on WBG and chaos13 were completely wrong and there are could be traitors present, there isn't much point continuing to defend myself or giving anymore scum reads.
Just go ahead and lynch me. Now start thinking about who you will lynch next. If you all are wrong, we'll be in LYLO, so you can't make anymore mistakes. If I am scum, then you should be thinking about who my scum buddies are.
Just pick one of your suspects and do a more in-depth analysis. If you are town, you ought to help us catch the mafia. + Show Spoiler +On August 13 2011 08:24 GMarshal wrote:
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
|
On September 04 2011 21:24 Pyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 19:06 xtfftc wrote:Just pick one of your suspects and do a more in-depth analysis. If you are town, you ought to help us catch the mafia. + Show Spoiler +On August 13 2011 08:24 GMarshal wrote:
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing. Have you not read the thread, or are you just selectively ignoring anything that would stop you from saying stupid shit? Look, there's nothing left for me to say, believe me if you want, lynch me if you don't. I almost don't care anymore. As far as I can tell, the only way town wins TL mafia games is if scum is eliminated before the competent players get eliminated. Town hasn't lynched a single scum target not previously confirmed by a blue read with the possible exception of Mig. The only ones contributing at this point are xtffftc who can't/won't read, curu who can't/won't read, and two other dudes that are probably scum. I mean WTF is this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=256518¤tpage=11#216Navillus has been lurking and ninja voting all game and now he's ninja voting someone who's already dead. I give up - my bad for claiming at a point where it was 2 mislynches to game over.
These are all of your posts. I'm done trying to convince you to do anything, if you don't want to play, you don't have to and can die tonight.
On September 04 2011 21:00 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 19:06 xtfftc wrote:On September 04 2011 09:31 RayzorFlash wrote:
I was suspicious of chaoser's claim ever since he actually claimed it, check my earlier posts. The longer he stays alive without providing more "useful" information, the more suspicious I get.Especially because of the initial timing of his claim, added to the new information about bum being framer, and in his two nights since then he hasn't provided anything useful except for being roleblocked, and Kurumi coming up green which could be misdirection itself It's not that Chaoser's claim isn't suspicious. The timing of your statement combined with your overall inactivity though... On September 04 2011 15:16 supersoft wrote:
pyo isn't a good target. His claim was pretty stange, but i don't think scum would claim like that.
He wasn't under pressure at that time. However it's correct, that his voting behaviour and his checks don't make any sense...
hmm That's what I thought at first but then I went through the thread again and his name was being mentioned a lot as the one to be lynched after Bum - especially by WBG. However, he was by no means dead already. The main problem I have with lynching Pyo is that we lynched two townies for playing badly on Day 1 and Day 2. Even with Mig and BrownBear gone, the mafia team should be playing better than this. Pyo is doing the same thing Hiro did. On September 04 2011 06:36 Pyo wrote:
Since nothing I say seems to be convincing anyone and nobody seems to have read my big long posts explaining my reasoning and my reads on WBG and chaos13 were completely wrong and there are could be traitors present, there isn't much point continuing to defend myself or giving anymore scum reads.
Just go ahead and lynch me. Now start thinking about who you will lynch next. If you all are wrong, we'll be in LYLO, so you can't make anymore mistakes. If I am scum, then you should be thinking about who my scum buddies are. Just pick one of your suspects and do a more in-depth analysis. If you are town, you ought to help us catch the mafia. + Show Spoiler +On August 13 2011 08:24 GMarshal wrote:
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing. Ugh I am getting a bit suspicious of everyone doing their best sevryn impression to be honest. I mean we burned our hands pretty bad and everytime I read some really scummy post of someone I instinctivly think "he probably is just really bad " but look at pyo doing the exact same thing as Hiro did for example. Either he is , like hiro , a butthurt townie who decided to get active when under suspicion and is then surprised that anyone would think its scummy, or a smart Scum player who noticed that we must be so afraid of mislynching again in the same fashion as we did before.
True. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Pyo flips DT - and he might even be sane.
|
On September 04 2011 22:56 Pyo wrote:You are so obviously scum, it's too bad no one here is willing to pay any attention to it.
Ahem. + Show Spoiler +On September 03 2011 22:38 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 22:05 Pyo wrote:
I didn't completely forget that, but rather it just occurred to me that my biggest mistake might have been the assumption that Chaoser was telling the truth. This sounds interesting and I'd like to read more of your thoughts on the issue. On September 04 2011 19:06 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 09:31 RayzorFlash wrote:
I was suspicious of chaoser's claim ever since he actually claimed it, check my earlier posts. The longer he stays alive without providing more "useful" information, the more suspicious I get.Especially because of the initial timing of his claim, added to the new information about bum being framer, and in his two nights since then he hasn't provided anything useful except for being roleblocked, and Kurumi coming up green which could be misdirection itself It's not that Chaoser's claim isn't suspicious. On September 04 2011 22:08 xtfftc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2011 21:00 Erandorr wrote:
Ugh I am getting a bit suspicious of everyone doing their best sevryn impression to be honest. I mean we burned our hands pretty bad and everytime I read some really scummy post of someone I instinctivly think "he probably is just really bad " but look at pyo doing the exact same thing as Hiro did for example. Either he is , like hiro , a butthurt townie who decided to get active when under suspicion and is then surprised that anyone would think its scummy, or a smart Scum player who noticed that we must be so afraid of mislynching again in the same fashion as we did before. True. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Pyo flips DT - and he might even be sane.
I'll make it clearer - if we end up lynching you and you flip DT, Chaoser is next. But I'm not comfortable with either for tonight.
Welcome back, I like this post. Who do you plan to analyse next?
|
Too many coincidences. 3 DTs in the game with some many blues dead already; checking Vain the night BB framed him; not being attacked both nights after claiming; being roleblocked only the second night*. He checked Kurumi but he didn't indicate that he was suspicious of Kurumi at all beforehand. The one Chaoser indicated as suspicious was VisceraEyes but he did not check him.
He build his case on Pyo around the idea that Pyo fake-claimed DT to get Vain killed - and yet Chaoser was the first one to do this.
On August 31 2011 11:11 chaoser wrote:
Let's hope only 1 of us died, it's not like they can change the kills anymore but I hope they double stacked me, gives us one more day.
What is this? Giving advice to the mafia as to why they should not kill him? Surely if he believes that this is what's best for town; he wouldn't explain it to them why they should kill someone else.
* This is a close call though. Foolishness, who was Watcher, was dead already, and WBG, who pretty much confirmed himself as Tracker, was targeted the same night, so I find it hard to believe that mafia were scared of visiting Chaoser. Still, it is a plausible explanation.
|
|
|
On September 05 2011 01:37 chaoser wrote:You still haven't answered my questions: Show nested quote +Why are you not comfortable with pyo's lynch? Who would you rather vote? He's not going to flip DT.
I did answer - I am not comfortable because I am not convinced that he is mafia and I would rather lynch Rayzor or Navillus. However, you did not answer me about Rayzor.
|
Why Errandor, and Viscera?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
