EPTthen you go ahead and vote for someone who wanted to lynch CC a while back
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
then you go ahead and vote for someone who wanted to lynch CC a while back | ||
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Jayjay54
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On January 15 2012 05:25 Toadesstern wrote: don't, under any circumstances talk about this or answer what L is asking you. Let them wifom about if you really are a vig and be happy with that. do you think L is being stupid or scum? | ||
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On January 15 2012 03:44 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Using the phrase "has been on my nuts all game" is more or less accurate. You are really the only person who has been against me for a decent period of time. You also have said your reasons why. Do i agree with them? No. I do understand them however. If you compare what you were doing to what VE did you would understand why he is on a radar now and you are currently not. However, as for the upsides of my claim. Look at the specific post Incog (the hydra) quoted of mine from my town analysis thread that I believe i linked in a previous post. (if i didnt i can dig it up, its also somewhere on page 4-6 i believe of the mafia forum). I stress that most people don't use pm's correctly. In a situation where only a few specific players have access to that domain, it gives the mafia an advantage. They will have 10 people able to work on manipulating a player. You can say "i am going to look for manipulation so it won't happen" but again. Ask what I did to VE. It was subtle and vile. All I did was plant an idea that I knew he would think on and run with, and he did it in a way I knew he would. Manipulation is not obvious and a good player will know exactly how to do it without being caught. Mafia will have 10 people making sure its done right. I know that I can freely romp in pm land, but no smart mafia is going to talk to me seriously if i mason them. Why? Because i could do to them what they would do to another player. As such I had to think. How likely is it that only top players got the mason role? Unlikely as fw rng's roles. We are also a gimped mason as we lose contact with who we target after each cycle and can never use it on them again. This is inherently not helpful to town. Why? Because a townie benefits from bouncing ideas off one another in pms. However you need the time to build up a "trust" of sorts with the person to actually get a serious discussion on reads. People will naturally always suspect you at first when mason'd or at least they should. That is not alot of time to get by the distrust and have a discussion of who x and y think is scum. Then you have to go over all those pms and see if there is a hidden agenda there. PM's in the way we traditionally use them to "bounce ideas" or find scum are used over long periods of time with people mulling over information. As your ability to get reads is so short term they are unreliable and far more useful to manipulate or mislead which takes far less effort, and is doable in a much faster span of time. As such I opted to want to discuss the role. However, I also knew that based on my decision to heavily push this point, I would be forced to claim my role as there would be no way I would be able to hide that fact for the game while pushing heavy on its discussion. Even if I could, it could lead masons to out and out claim and would look extremely bad if I didn't while essentially outing people in thread. As such I did right from the get go. I guess we're running in circles here. I've completely understand why you think masons are worse on a random town role. Especially, while having elected scum masons. Maybe, you read that in nearly all of my posts I 100% agree with you on that part. No arguements whatsoever here. I just question the roleclaim decision, because I think that you could've become mayor and while doing that connecting your campaign with that discussion, you're strong enough player that you actually could have pushed for it. Also, why not discuss it at night. Whatever. I still don't trust you...but again no need to answer here, no need to further discuss it. Right now. I still don't know who to vote for. Hydra has not been very vocal and I feel thats not good... BM hasn't been either. Just for a brief period of time... Meapak, who are you gonna lynch? Still, th | ||
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On January 15 2012 06:15 VisceraEyes wrote: No it was a real claim...I idiotically thought my Vig power was a DayVig power and tried to kill C_C with it. this kinda feels like the echelot "-town" incident (where is he anyways? he still ows me an explanation?) either this was a very very very stupid mistake or you claimed "by accident" to become mayor. I tend to the second option. Feels off. | ||
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On January 15 2012 06:41 VisceraEyes wrote: I'll take your being a jerk to me to be indicative of your alignment, since you're not providing anything else for me to base it on. What do you think of my case on CC? What case? There's hardly any case. This is almost OMGUS. You were BFF and then he called you lynch candidate, all of a sudden you're like, DAYKILL. I didn't really get it. Or did I miss something. | ||
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On January 15 2012 06:48 VisceraEyes wrote: We were never BFF...he attempted to buddy me by telling me not to drop out of the race. Did you read my case? Do you disagree with my points? Now he's trying to discredit my case, not by refuting the points but by calling me an idiot and acting incredulous about my reinserting myself into the mayoral race. If you disagree with the case that's fine, but don't call it OMGUS...that's very NOT the case. I did read your case, he makes minor contradictions, granted. But enough to justify a daykill? I hardly think so. Also, I am like 95% sure that you wouldn't have made that case if he didn't call you lynch candidate. Which makes it an OMGUS. Sorry. But that is how I see it. | ||
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On January 15 2012 07:02 Jitsu wrote: Wasn't WBG pretty anti-Palmar in anyway and wanted him dead? Than as Palmar starts posting, the votes for WBG blow up. 10 foot pole indeed. I don't want to be all like WIFOM, but don't you think if this was a planned scum action, it could have been made differently. I mean, I agree that looked suspicious as fuck. If I was scum, I'd definitely avoid that. but yeah WIFOM. I can only speak on my behalf. As I already stated, I didn't really know where to put my vote, since my favorite was modkilled. So I needed an alternative. WBG as a sheriff seemed like a good proposal. I looked through his filter one more time and voted. I followed Wiggles. That I ended up ninjaing was bad luck. If you don't believe my story, I invite you to look at my filter, I think, you'll find decent arguements for my allignment, imo. Also, my actions should speak for themselves. | ||
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On January 15 2012 07:18 Toadesstern wrote: also because someone mentioned it (think jayjay) if VE WOULD be a dayvig, shooting CC would be an awesome move. This election is hard because we don't have flips and there's a lot of possibilities. I think sandro is pretty scumm atm for example. However, I'd like to see some flips that are in some way related to him or see himself flip to back that up. If I got a flip that somehow tells me I am wrong about sandroba that'd be a huge deal. Shooting d1 is dangerous but in this situation very much a good thing for town because of information gain imo. (ignore this if your post was sarcasm) I most certainly did not  This is a horrible move. Seriously. And announcing to do so and roleclaim even more. I stated several times that I don't get what the situation and the motives behind that was. | ||
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On January 15 2012 05:21 L wrote: No, no. Answer my question. Are you shooting CC tonight? this post is why, I wouldn't vote L. He is experienced. So why on earth would he suggest to tell everyone who is going to shoot when? That's a bad move. BM is an okay choice imo. 26/50 voted, deadline in 3 h 40 mins. Everyone who doesn't vote gets modkilled right? | ||
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On January 15 2012 08:29 Protactinium wrote: Quite a few people have voiced concerns that I have not been active enough or have not provided a "gameplan". Well as Wiggles said, everyone's "gameplan" for mayor is pretty much the same and you can make however many empty promises you want. Obviously, I have been scumhunting. That's not going to change. While it may make you nervous or uncomfortable when other people are outposting me by miles, you can guarantee that when I post, I post meaningful content. Other than Foolishness's argument against Macpo (which I agree with btw), I have been the only one who has really been focused on finding the mafia. My posts speak for themselves, and Don't you think a mayor should be a discussionleader. You clearly lack posts. They are well thought-out, but there are only a few. Would you increase your posting frequency as town? Some clarifications about my BC analysis: While yes, I did state that BC's opinions here are inconsistent with his out of game comments, this is not the foundation of my argument, they are just icing on the cake. Does the fact that I am saying "I am running on the campaign of lynching this player" really say nothing about myself, as BC so claims? No, in fact, it gives you a lot about me. It tells you that I am a no nonsense player who will get straight to the point without cluttering my posts with irrelevant details. It tells you that I am serious about finding mafia and have no interest in spreading confusion and spam in the thread. And you'll notice that I don't only say "I want to lynch X", I actually give reasons for wanting to do so. BC is trying to misrepresent me and trying to convince you that I have done nothing for the town, which is clearly false. Notice how even at this point he still hasn't commented on my case on Ciryandor. BC lies about me ignoring his game discussion. In fact, I devote the first 3 paragraphs of my post just to address the little drama BC has created. I say that his discussion is an irrelevant and unsolvable one that will get us nowhere, while stating my opinion that PMs favor good players and aren't really that scary for town if used properly. That's really all that needs to be said. Yet instead, BC has taken the mason subject and expanded over many pages of the thread, conveniently trashing it and derailing the important discussion of who the mafia is. Look at the bolded section. Pushing my agenda to off players? BC tries to make me look like some bloodthirsty/trigger happy mafia. Guess what: The town's agenda is to kill the mafia!. So yes, my agenda is to kill mafia. That is much different from wanting to "off players". BC is inflating the importance of his "discussion"'s contribution to the town's agenda and is trying to marginalize my attempts to scumhunt, which really should be the town's priority. The italicized portion is irrelevant. I do not fail to consider that you are playing the game instead of being bored, since in fact, boredom is more a characteristic of your town play, not your mafia play. So in this little paragraph, what has BC actually done? He has attempted to discredit me by ignoring all my contributions, inflated the importance of his own contributions to the thread, and attempted to paint me as a trigger happy lunatic. Misrepresentation at its finest, and something that strongly indicates a mafia. I could go on and on to detail more paragraphs, but this should be sufficient. This is a joke. He does not state that it is not used properly, he says that IF it is not used properly, mafia can abuse it to win. If you read BC's PM stance, it is quite moderate and reasonable. Use PMs if you are comfortable in using them properly, ignore them if you don't. In this game? "Ahhhh ignore PMs like the plaguuuuuu! They are so evil!!" I still am on BCs side concerning the mason topic. Don't you think elected mafia masons can do a lot of damage? Quick answer to prevent further discussions please. Its not as simple as that. Say, as town I am able to PM with an inexperienced mafia. That is a positive, not a detriment. BC is taking the case where inexperienced townies get into PMs with mafia and get burned, ignoring the case where a capable PM practitioner is able to leverage PMs for an advantage. BC creates an ultimatum where I am branded as mafia if I do not accept his rather skewed and overly-general statement that does not acknowledge the complexity of the PM issue. Bored BC is usually townie BC. But in the case that he is playing seriously as town, a simple check on two separate games with BC as town shows that his style is much different from this game. TL Mafia XX PYP3 In TL Mafia XX, BC proposes a plan, answers questions about it, but is rather straightforward and decisive with what he wants to do. He even roleclaims before the end of the election. But what is different this time? He clearly gives an outline of how his claim was a move to get votes, and in the next post to gauge reactions. He doesn't stir the pot by saying "hey lets get a discussion going", he just states his opinions, and scumhunts. Keeps most of his opinions to himself when they aren't necessary, but otherwise its pretty clear he isn't trying to stir things up chaos here. In PYP3, BC doesn't do nonsense. He has almost all analytical posts (about setup/the drafting situation first, then followed by attacks on LSB), and again isn't posting "to stir up discussion". BC's town behavior in these two games completely contrasts with this game. He heavily overemphasizes "lets get discussion going", never gives any indication that he wants to find mafia until he counter-attacks me in his defense against my accusation, and has many contradictions in his posts. Even in the above quote, BC says the differences are when he is pushing a mafia or town objective. Where is he pushing the town objective??? BC does no scumhunting, and is content to litter the thread with nonsense while attempting to marginalize my contributions. So no. Unlike what BC wants to make you think, my case is NOT based primarily on out of game connections. Those are simply bonuses. A quick look at BC's posts show that: He does not display any attempt to find mafia, despite his original campaign promise that "I will question, analyze and call out all those who play in what I view as bad town/mafia like.". He has overemphasized creating discussion on masons and manipulated the course of this discussion while derailing from the town objective to find mafia. As shown in the first section of this post, BC deliberately misinterprets my post and attempts to discredit me by painting me as a triggerhappy who just wants to off people. Lets be honest here. Look at my posts, and look at BC's posts. Which is more important, BC's mason discussion, or my who is mafia discussion? If one of us is really trying to derail the discussion, who is it??? BC is mafia. I am shocked that so many people are still voting for him, though I suppose its natural, since mafia candidates never are lacking in votes. well, I ended up asking a lot less than I thought I had to. I can see most of your calls. other than that: if you couldn't lynch BC, who was your second and third choice? What do you think of L's question who is gonna be shot? How do you feel about VEs claim? Thanks man | ||
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On January 15 2012 08:50 risk.nuke wrote: Protactinium, why have you waited untill now to voice your concerns? BC have been the leading election since day 1, it is now 4 hours till deadline and most of europe is asleep. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716¤tpage=44#870 you continue to underperform. | ||
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On January 15 2012 08:55 Toadesstern wrote: you people need to realize that we need to get 2 or 3 people high on votes. We want to make it as hard as possible for mafia to screw this poll. If we end up having a lot of people who have 4 votes mafia can EASILY rig this election. So please, if you don't think the guy you're voting for has a fair chance at winning this election please try and conside voting someone else. Sure that's a bad thing because from your point of view guy X is way better than guy Y, so why risk getting guy X into office when Y is way better. However, if your vote turns out to be useless that's a vote that's helping scum because they need less people to rig this. Right now there's BC with 8 and BM with 7. so right now there's two up there. I still have a scumread on BC that's why I reconsider. WBG has 4 and Hydra 3. If I switch it's the other way round. So those guys still have a chance... On a different note, I don't like the L bandwagon at all. It's scary. | ||
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On January 15 2012 09:13 Macpo wrote: I haven't been able to post my scum tells last post, here they are. Basically, I think we kind of neglect all these players, who are basically hiding. I am not saying this 100% scums; some of them are probably really not here. but I also think it's more than 20% scum in there, we should keep this in mind: - Refallen 2 empty posts. - Munk-E 1 empty post. - Brownbear 4 posts, 4lines. - d3_crescentia 3 posts 3 lines. - igabod 4 posts 4 lines. - rtgICEMAN 4 posts, and no clear position. - Maxella 2 posts. Please guys, really get into it and help town; as now you are just very embarrassingly hiding. Until you convincingly do, you are all my favorite scums tells. Also, while going through the filters, I saw the remarkable case of Jayjay, one poster, 10%of the whole thread. and to be honest, only crap in it; far from any rational standard . This annoys me, so I put him on my scummy list. We really need to have more rational stuff to clarify things. like REALLY. I think, if you read my filter, you'll find some pretty good cases (at least I put some effort into them). Could you please point out, where I derail or say "crap below rational standard"? Thanks. too bad, there's no answer from hydra. I'll probably switch anyways, because I don't trust BC. | ||
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1) WBG. His “not entirely based on meta” campaign was actually fine to me. I did not really like his reasoning behind it, but it seemed reasonable enough to assume he is town. That is why, I wanted to see him as a Sheriff (read: not Mayor, but Sheriff). He got my vote after Wiggles proposal, during the unfortunate coincidence that got VE and me on the suspicious list  But right when I went to sleep, he got out of hand and suddenly pushed for it like a madmen. That was really strange. His read on Palmar was weak and the case he made had not real arguments. Even though he says the opposite. All in all, the extreme pushing not the case itself made it look suspicious. 2) Supersoft. Looked like WBGs sidekick in the last pages. Just pushing Palmar’s lynch. They were like one in a piece. This is the first time two people in this thread combine their power so hard to achieve something. Could be scum support, could be that he was convinced or they even might be masoning. => At least one of them might be scum. 3) BC. How the fuck did he end up being mayor. Let’s look at his last minute votes. 3 mins to dealine: Supersoft. 2 mins to deadline: WBG 1 mins to deadline: VE All of these votes where generated by the last minute switch to Palmar as lynch candidate. He looked as if he would just seize the opportunity to harvest some votes. Really weak opinion and taking his own responsibility out of the equation, because he wasn’t the one who pushed for Palmar. I still don’t like his play. Will keep a close eye on him. However, since he’s mayor now, I’ll probably slow down with my accusations here. We need a strong mayor and I sincerely hope that BC is town and doesn’t let weak ass cases influence his opinion last minute. 4) VE: WEEEEEEAK OMGUS case on CC. He NEVER would have made that case, if CC didn’t mention him as a lynch candidate. That was just pure overreaction. Enough to justify a daykill? Based on a little inconsistent posting and change of opinion. If that is a justification BC and Hydra are the next vig candidates. Yay for chaos. He then goes on to take this case to “accidentally” roleclaim. Only to afterwards say, “well actually I couldn’t daykill, but make me mayor so I can lynch CC. Look at my case.” That was really stupid. Independent on alignment. He even continues to push for his case during the selection. Which is fine. But to defend a rather weak case which such passion is strange. Kinda similar to WBG and Supersoft. Who he joined later on in a last minute vote based on another weak case. That is why VE is a player to watch out for. 5) Hydra Talks a billion times about why to lynch BC, makes a good case. Gets my vote, I go to sleep and he switches to Macpo? Nice. That doesn’t exactly convey trust. I don’t like it. 6) However, Macpo probably isn’t that bad of a choice. He might be a newb excusing himself, but I too get scummish vibes from the way he posts. No real reasoning behind anything, posting lists. Either Noob or Scum. This is why I probably would have supported Hydra here. 7) L: Still haven’t forgotten the fact the he asked our vig who to shoot and I don’t want anyone to forget about it. He did provide one post on that topic: On January 15 2012 06:13 L wrote: Someone just made a claim to the strongest town role in the thread. He has multiple avenues to confirm his role if he's not lying. No shit I'm going to ask him if he's going to shoot THE PERSON HE ALREADY TRIED TO SHOOT. That is one weak explanation. This action is nowhere near town. Seriously. Why would you? If you want to confirm a role, the shot has to be posted right at the deadline or even a few minutes afterwards. This was either puuuuure stupidity. Or actually a scumslip. Also if you want to look http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716¤tpage=66 You can see a small bandwagon of possible L voters in three posts. Really Opz, Jitsu and Supersoft are indeed not on my green townie town list right now. Might be coincidence and I probably would have ignored it, if the persons joining the L train would be different. 8) Risk.Nuke. I don’t want to boil up this whole feud again, but the fact that he was a mayoral candidate might justify a further look. Since, I am probably biased, I won’t do it. Would be glad if someone else did. 9) Echelot. Still don’t like his explanation for –town. But that’s not enough to call him Scum. And I like his last posts. | ||
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On January 15 2012 22:00 Kurumi wrote: I fucking regret voting Protact. why is that | ||
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On January 15 2012 22:38 Adam4167 wrote: These: VisceraEyes Ciryandor BloodyC0bbler Protactinium L WBG Ive covered most of the reasons why in my last post. L id just really like to see more of before he gets a 'townie' brand, since hes got a reputation as a great scum player. Adam, if you continue to copy all of my opinions, we might become BFFs These players are precisely who I don't agree with either. Your post makes sense too. Good work IMO | ||
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On January 15 2012 22:55 Adam4167 wrote: Thanks. To be honest I combed your filter for close to 45 minutes trying to figure you out. Your excessive attention towards EchelonTee had me wondering if you were trying to exaggerate something small into something huge. Nothing jumped out at me though. I didn't really have an excessive attitude against him. I just pushed for an explanation (which I still didn't really got) in order to figure him out. He didn't post at that time. Recently, he posted a little more and I said in my last post that he starts making sense and this actually might have been an error. The only one I was really aggressive towards was BC. Which is why I voted for the hydra. | ||
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the funny fart here, is not even the self contradection, but that I didn't softdefend him whatsoever. I called him a lynch candidate but that just shows that he didn't really think that through at all. I'm still leaning towards bad town player instead of scum. | ||
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