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Pick Their Power Mafia 2
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chaos13
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You tunnel me, I'll tunnel Jackal. For the sake of any and all detective roles in this game, I sincerely hope you do not end up with a gun. | ||
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Anyone you want. ... As long as it's not me. | ||
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 Somebody give me something interesting please | ||
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Jackal58, Harry Potter The question raised now is whether or not the Voldemort/Potter duo is like Joker/Batman was in PTP 1. Is role a reflection of alignment in this case? It would have been natural to think voldy was mafia, but that turned out completely incorrect. It is also possible that they are both town aligned. This remains to be seen. A question I want to put forward is: Should we get Jackal to use the wand in the same way that ON was going to? A double lynch either today or tomorrow? This could prove to be a powerful tool, and is worth considering. Sandroba, keeper of the wand My big question is why was he willing to hand out a KP so early on day 1? Unless he knew ON was town somehow, but with the deal of it being handed back to him, that seems highly unlikely. At first I would say he is town, because he was ready to hand the wand over to someone who flipped town instead of someone on his scum team. But then...nobody says that the keepers of the hallows and the collectors have to be on the same team. We really have no guarantee of this either way, but if we see Sand flip before Jackal, we can rest assured that they are not mafia together or Potter would have the wand now. In conclusion, I'm uncertain on him. This business has introduced a lot of wifom around Sand, and I've really got nowhere in writing out my thought process on him. Curu, the naive planner On July 25 2011 10:26 Curu wrote: This game is Harry Potter Mafia? Did I miss something wut? One idea: everyone can claim their own roles. That doesn't activate the penalty AFAIK. Then if anyone lies at all then their role creator can call them out. This allows us to coordinate everyone's powers and dissenters can be lynched. Effectively we can coordinate everyone's actions and avoid hero syndrome or people using their powers in an Anti Town way (can also somewhat cripple the Mafia's powers). The only weakness I can see is that it lets the Mafia pick and choose their targets among who has the most powerful roles. However, they already know many of the roles of Town (the ones they themselves created) so it's not all that debilitating. Thoughts? It's already been explained why this is a bad idea, and I agree with that wholeheartedly. This benefits scum far more than town, since they could eliminate mason or vigilante roles. However, as I often find myself pointing out, bad plan =/= scum. Based on this I think Curu is more likely town than mafia. If mafia were to propose a plan as high-profile as this, they would have thought it through and discussed it with their scumbuddies first, and it would not have ended up posted. But seriously Curu, don't push this plan. It doesn't help us. redFF, the....redFF On July 25 2011 11:55 redFF wrote: imo give it to me. This post makes me really uneasy. He asks for a KP with no explanation. Maybe he has a role that he can use it, or maybe he just wanted to hold on to it so it couldn't be used improperly. On July 25 2011 10:33 redFF wrote: I think you should claim, your derailing town discussion by being cryptic about the horcruxes. We should either stop trying to get information from ON or he should claim. This one as well. He accuses a now-confirmed townie, and tries to get him to claim. Couple this with his asking for the wand, it makes me think he also might have an HP themed role and would be capable of using it. What remains to be seen is whether this role is town aligned or not. At the moment I have no strong reads on any other players. Hopefully I'll have more time tomorrow to read and do some proper analysis. Something I really don't want to happen is that everyone gets wrapped up in the theme roles of this game. At the heart of it, it's a simple game of mafia. At no point in the game should role/HP mechanics come before good analysis. I realize that in my thoughts above I focused a lot on HP, and as you can see it only led to a lot of wifom. I will be doing my best to move away from this in the future and on to analysis based more in behavior. | ||
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On July 25 2011 13:51 redFF wrote: I don't have an hp themed role. First post was a joke, as everyone was asking for the wand. I was going to say AND MY AXE, but i went for imo give me the wand. I didn't accuse him, i just noted discussion was being derailed by all this hp nonsense, so i wanted him to be as upfront as possible now we knew part of his role, i see that as a good townie post. The problem is that you're asking for an outright role claim on D1, and the person you encouraged to do so ended up as a conveniently dead townie by the claws of Wolverine shortly after this. A good townie post would have been to focus attention on something new and productive. Instead, you said "Don't talk about HP stuff" and immediately followed it with "claim more HP stuff". | ||
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On July 25 2011 14:35 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Could ON actually be mafia, but just flips green, thus the "disguised as town" from Jackal's PM? Like a GF that keeps working after death. Other than that, I'm drawing a blank, besides that Jackal's scum. If this is the case I'm going to have an aneurysm. ON had better be town if he flipped town | ||
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On July 25 2011 14:43 Curu wrote: lol, chaos13 knows full well the frustrations of untrustworthy flips from WaW2 <3. Goddamn that pissed me off so much. I came back from camping and read my death post wondering if I'd read my role PM wrong. OT: What gets me is that even if he is mafia, Jackal would have no reason to include a false statement in his claim. He's a good enough player that I'm sure he would be able to get ON lynched based on the simple premise of "Voldemort = scum". As I mentioned before though, we're discussing lynching someone based on role claims. There's a whole lot of WIFOM going on here, and that's just not good. Vote based on analysis rather than roles. We have a confirmed role PM from decon on Voldy. We have a claim from Jackal that is quite similar, except for some minor differences. So Jackal is almost assuredly not lying about his role claim. Why then, would he include a false statement? Even as mafia, why? That's the thing that isn't making sense to me here. I think what needs to be done is examine the behavior rather than the claims. I'm with DropBear. I can understand why you're coming from this angle, but the evidence isn't enough to sell me. Decon, are you able to clarify whether these roles are made by players or made by you? Once he comes in and answers that question we can bring the topic up again. Until then I suggest we stop basing arguments on WIFOM and contribute something of more substance. | ||
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On July 25 2011 21:15 Kurumi wrote: KURUMI'S GARAGE SALE ~no image because I am too scared to find porn again~ I want to sell: Vote Make Your bandwagon appear harder, better, faster and stronger! I am willing to sell it for a vig shot or something nice. Old Cape http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=245008¤tpage=23#460 Role check Scummy bastard roleblocking You? Palmar stealing Your kalmars? Provide essential Role check to Your analysis for 5 votes! 1. Selling his vote. As town, this is your MOST IMPORTANT TOOL EVER. When you remove your vote, you are worthless to the town. What alignment is it that doesn't care about where their vote goes, as long as it's not on mafia? Scum. 2. Selling the old cape, or one of the deathly hallows, for 4 votes. So he has an item that right now is worthless in his hands, and would be worthless in anyone's hands but Potters. This means the only person worth selling it to is Jackal, who is a topic of heated debate. Why is it that a townie would want 4 votes to use as they wish? That completely ruins the strength of the voting system. The will of the majority is what actually gets us to lynch scum, because we don't have single headstrong individuals controlling a large portion of the votes. What Kurumi is suggesting does exactly that. 3. Now he wants 5 votes -_- Tell me Kurumi, how would you using these 5 votes (6 including yours, assuming you haven't sold it) by yourself be better than letting the entire town vote individually. Seriously. This is the scummiest post I have seen the entire game. ##Vote: Kurumi | ||
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Host > player What's going on here supersoft? | ||
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On July 26 2011 01:33 Kurumi wrote: YOU CAN'T LYNCH THE BANK SILLY GOOSE! I will make every vote to vote on myself or on a lurker. I need a vigi shot to kill creator of my role... ...what is this I don't even.... | ||
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On July 26 2011 01:37 Nisani201 wrote: The Town can sort this out, if it's really troubling you then perhaps you should roleclaim. -_- WHEN WILL YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND Role claims are not good. | ||
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On July 26 2011 01:45 syllogism wrote: He had to use his ability today as his role changes daily Ah, right. | ||
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On July 26 2011 01:57 sandroba wrote: Not really. Assuming DB is town, which I think he is, they couldn't be certain that he would reveal who got the Tim role. supersoft was basically cornered into shooting whoever shot YM, to prove he wasn't lying. Maybe they indeed did not think things through, but a more plausible explanation is that they are both mafia. It's not certain, but it explains things better than "mafia is dumb". It's worth keeping him around for DT checks anyway. If he's not mafia he's going to get shot eventually or confirm half the town. Hmm. But if he is mafia we can't trust his checks at all. I hadn't thought of things from that angle, so it's semi possible he could be scum. If he is, his DT power is useless because it would be so easy to lie about it. However, it depends on whether decon would post it publicly or PM supersoft. I'm guessing it would be PM'ed to soft, in which case he would have no trouble lying | ||
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Problem is, how do we know if he's lying? | ||
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On July 26 2011 02:09 syllogism wrote: Someone lied about Supersoft's role though Supersoft: Dropbear: lol did you just give yourself away as mafia? "Hm, they said this but decon hasn't PM'ed it to me or my team yet." Before I go ahead and lynch your scummy neck please explain to me if I'm seeing things right here. | ||
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1. You do not want people to vote on Kurumi, based on that you think he has a vote-activated power, despite how he is simply trolling and being anti-town. He has not hinted at all that his power is activated based on how many votes he receives though, all he said is that it happens when he dies. Worst case scenario, he is town and his power harms town. Best case scenario, he is mafia and his power harms town. I don't know about you, but I would gladly trade a likely mafia for a townie. We come out far better from that than scum do. 2. You do not want supersoft to use his DT check. Wat. Wat. WAT. You're reasoning is that "he will confirm someone town and mafia will kill them." Let's get him to check one of our top suspects. If they're town, rather than lynching them we will move onto someone else who is now that much more likely to be mafia. If they're scum, we lynch them without hesitation (duh). Let's face it, people are going to die from mafia tonight anyway. If we get a confirmed town, then we get any medic-type roles to protect them. I really see no possible way that getting him to use his power can harm us. A DT check that we all get to know the results of is good. I'm really not liking your play here BC. I can't see why a townie would want to protect a spammer or avoid using a DT check. | ||
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On July 26 2011 05:21 syllogism wrote: I can only see two possibilities: BC has a really odd posting restriction or he isn't town aligned. Leaning on former as this would be incredibly bad scum play and there are no village idiots. He already claimed a post restriction. However, I am having serious trouble figuring out what it is, if it even exists. | ||
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On July 26 2011 06:53 Lanaia wrote: I don't think BC is a good lynch today. Why not? | ||
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On July 26 2011 07:05 Lanaia wrote: Although he's strange, I think he's town. It's gut, most likely, but I feel strongly he's just stubborn town. He's giving me townvibes. I really can't explain it more than that. Hmm, okay. Who do you think is a good lynch then? | ||
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LURKER ROLE CALL! The following people have not been posting as much as I want them to: -Jackal58 -Nisani201 -Amber[Light] -Drazerk -ketomai -Mig -Varpulis Any of you there? | ||
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Curu, what would you think of lynching kitaman or Kurumi over BC? | ||
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On July 26 2011 07:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote: -_- they benefit him by A) giving info that regardless if you think it does or not, it helps "confirm" his legitimacy. It doesnt B) It lures town into false control of a role C) It sets up a slope of trusting someone we shouldn't trust D) It allows mafia to control general thoughts on rolechecks / lets them manipulate town as a whole There are more reasons but you should get the idea. An unconfirmed aligned dt's checks could be legit or not when he gives us the answers but if 1-2 of those checks turn up legit people will assume that dt is town when it does not mean that at all. There is far to much emphasis put on dt's and giving the mafia a potential tool to control town is terrible. As such, why would I want him to check anyone? Hmm...this is interesting. So what you're saying is that we would basically have to let him live if we want him to check people, but have to lynch him if we wanted to confirm his checks. That's something of a dilemma... Your entire theory is based on him actually being mafia though. On the one hand, we let him live while "checking" people's alignment. On the other, we let him live without being put in the spotlight with his checks. Or in a third scenario, we lynch him to confirm/refute his checks. If he flips town, we have truthful checks. If mafia, we just lynched scum and we can ignore all his 'checks'. The question is, which of these scenarios benefits us the most? | ||
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On July 26 2011 08:19 Curu wrote: What's with all this "I'll get checked if you do xxx and xxx and xxx for me first" bullshit. If we want to enforce this check, then we lynch anyone who refuses to do it. Remember that people we want checked are people that we probably want lynched too. I completely agree with you. Kita is asking us to completely give up the democracy of voting and let a single player decide who to lynch. 19 heads are better than 1 What I think a big problem will be is getting supersoft and his check target to be online at the same time | ||
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On July 26 2011 11:35 Mig wrote: BC would you say your 10 page argument was good for the town in anyway? Look who crawls out of the woodwork. Good to see you again Mig. You haven't said much all game | ||
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So last nights kills we have: Mig Wiggles red Why would mafia want to kill these guys specifically? Were any of these players really pushing someone? Also, you guys are herp derping left and right. I haven't seen any proper analysis of lynch candidates so far. What I want you to do is if you have a suspect, filter their posts and actually write something up on them. Explain why you think they are mafia, and reference it with quotes. Actually provide some evidence. Then others can comment on it and suddenly we have an organized town that is working together to catch scum. In this environment mafia will stick out like a sore thumb,. While I'm talking about it, I would like to add my analysis on a player. Syllogism On July 25 2011 17:23 syllogism wrote: It makes no sense for mafia to fake role PM like that as it could only lead to town lynching ON and confirming his alignment. I'm more inclined to believe the whole alignment thing in the PM is a red herring or that he is third party. This post was made in regards to Jackal58. In it he states that it just wouldn't make sense for scum to say that, because it would lead to them being lynched. He defends Jackal rather strongly. On July 25 2011 18:29 syllogism wrote: Pretty sure you people pushing jackal aren't this gullible/blind, but rather not town aligned Care to explain why mafia jackal would reveal his role immediately, knowing ON's real aligned and what will likely happen when ON flips town In this one he makes a chainsaw defense of Jackal. Apparently anyone who thought Jackal was mafia is scum. Defending Mafia = check On July 26 2011 04:45 syllogism wrote: So you are admitting the role is likely confirmed. What exactly will mafia/third party supersoft do with his alignment checking role that town is forcing him to use? At worst we will be mislead, but we are always free to ignore his checks. At best he gives us red today. There's no risk at all unless it's a gambit and they are ALL red. This post seems solid at first glance, but it reveals a scum agenda. Encouraging alignment checks is a great way to come across as pro-town. However, he suggests ignoring checks and brings up a reason not to trust them in the same post. Perhaps a mafia even created a role for BC and they knew he was a miller. On July 26 2011 22:19 syllogism wrote: I'm up for lynching Lanaia, Redff or possibly Palmar. I concur with Foolishness' thoughts on BC; I find it quite unlikely he would act like this if he was mafia aligned as he must realize most of the town will immediately jump on him. Refusing to get checked is suspicious, but for now I'm not willing to lynch him based on just that. Palmar has been keeping quite a low profile so far, jumped on the easy and quite weak wagon and done little to no scum hunting so far, which is quite uncharacteristic of him. In this one he takes three seemingly random names that he has not mentioned previously once, and suggest lynching them. He only provides reasoning for one of them. This is all during a huge drawn-out argument with BC that did nothing but clutter up the thread. While BC did flip town, this argument was still anti-town. Much more productive things could have been happening in that time. On July 27 2011 05:58 syllogism wrote: I switched to Jackal because I STILL can't believe this is your scum play. So...a red check from a DT, and he still moves his vote? This seems like classic mafia not wanting to be caught voting for town. He even moves it to a mafia, who ended up not lynched. At this point since the check is red he knows that BC is going to be lynched. He also knows that it's because he is a miller, as BC is not on his mafia team. When BC flips green he can say "told you so" and when Jackal flips red he can say "see, I'm town. I voted for scum". On July 28 2011 06:32 syllogism wrote: Chaos13 and Foolishness definitely look like the best lynches as of now. Then he goes on to pick two MORE random names and suggest they be lynched, again without providing any reasoning.. Note to all town players: explain your votes. It makes things go much better. Worth noting as well though, is that he doesn't vote for any of the players he says he would like to lynch. He is waiting for a reaction from the town to see if he will have support. He doesn't want to be caught pushing a townie lynch. All he wants to do is plant the seed of suspicion and then watch it grow. And then we have what just ended up happening. supersoft was ready to check syllogism, and then he is hit by a day vig. A town player would have claimed a day hit like this immediately, especially to explain why they hit such an obvious townie. This means it was scum. Why would scum risk a day hit like this with no warning? They didn't want syllo to be checked. syllogism is scum That's as coherent as I can make this post right now, I hope it makes sense. I'm exhausted. | ||
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And nobody should be handing out hallows. Potter and voldy are dead. Anyone who wants them probably has an HP role and can use them, but that's not good since we aren't aware of any roles like that. in other words, you're giving power to someone completely unconfirmed. Don't do it. | ||
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@Curu I know it looks suspicious that I happened to make that after syllo accused me. He didn't provide a drop of explanation though. In my experience that is a scum tendency. If you think that is an OMGUS you are sorely mistaken. On the one hand we have syllo saying "scum, let's lynch him, I think he's scum" and then I say "syllo is scum for the following reasons ____". That's not an OMGUS. That's good town play. I think he is mafia, so I say so and explain why. Being wrong doesn't make me mafia. Whoever shot him is more likely to be mafia than I am. @Palmar you can screw right off. You haven't been helpful so far this game at all. I didn't even realize you had made a case on syllo, so you can't accuse me of 'bandwagoning' on your case. Not once did I reference your case. If I was going to bandwagon I would have said yeah Palmar that's really good and then voted him. I think you're just going into your usual 'tunnel chaos' mode. | ||
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On July 28 2011 21:02 Palmar wrote: Chaos13 can get lynched or shot. Like I'd be perfectly fine with a day vig just taking him out right now. If you think I'm mafia make a goddamn case you derp. I haven't seen a single bit of explanation. This is ridiculous | ||
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On July 28 2011 21:13 Palmar wrote: You were perfectly fine with bandwagoning my case on syllogism. I already said I didn't realize you had made a case on syllo. You'll notice that I actually provided reason for my vote, which is a hell of a lot more than most people so far have done. You have nowhere near enough reason to justify calling for a day vig. | ||
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On July 28 2011 21:17 Palmar wrote: So you're not reading the thread either, lol How the fuck did you think the whole supersoft/syllogism deal started? I've been reading it, but I am quite honestly exhausted. It didn't stick in my memory, or maybe I missed a page or something | ||
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On July 28 2011 21:21 sandroba wrote: I can't decide on which of you is mafia so having palmar track chaos is very nice and clear things up. If palmar is town he's prob getting shot anyway tonight, so it makes things easier. Can you two be friends for now and vote for foolishness. I made several posts on him, go read them. Yeah except if he's scum he is going to lie and say I visited someone. Probably someone who ends up dead. Then you guys will lynch me and waste another day while scum get a free night -_- | ||
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if this has ever been addressed. Why exactly are you putting TLPD in all your posts? | ||
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On July 29 2011 11:35 bumatlarge wrote: come on guys use that brain of yours, even if it isnt what you think you could just accuse foolishness of misleading hints! ??? I don't understand this post | ||
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On July 29 2011 11:46 Varpulis wrote: Some shit to do with either his role or his penalty, maybe both. I think he hinted at it a while ago. Or he's pulling a Drazerk and making it all up. Hmm. Well I have to say that Foolish is not being helpful. He hasn't contributed anything of substance all game really, except lately with his case for Nisani. I don't like the way nisani looks either, but it matches his meta more than foolishness'. My vote will go for Foolish over nisani. But Palmar, don't think I've forgotten about you. ##Vote: Foolishness Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to bed. I am exhausted | ||
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On July 29 2011 20:03 Palmar wrote: This vote makes me not like the Foolishness wagon as much. Unless of course it's a bus, but damn it, Chaos13 is the most scummy player in town. That's a good constructive post right there, it really helped us out a lot. I am so glad we have such a shining example of excellence to look up to. | ||
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I completely agree with Varpulis. Unless you (or the person you replaced, rather) made Foolishness' role and that's along the lines of what it is... Hmm. However, if that is the case you should probably claim it outright. As it is now it looks like a wild conspiracy theory and will only lead to further confusion and make you look more suspicious in the future. | ||
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So here is how all accusations must be made in the future, in order to make things clear and understandable. Player Name Verdict: Explanation and evidence. Quotes must be used here. Player Name is mafia/town. ##Vote: Player Name This will allow everyone to clearly see and understand what you are saying. This will provide us with stronger analysis and stronger reference after players flip. Of course this will only apply to the original accusation. If you're supporting someone else's, say so, but there is no need to go through this again. | ||
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I'm guessing there is probably 5 scum. I would say the remaining scum team is Palmar, Nisani, and Foolishness. One of the more active vocal players is probably third party. Sandroba or DropBear maybe. DB might even be faking his penalty here, it could be something completely different and he's just doing that to distract from the content in his posts. | ||
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Oh and Palmar. You are scum. | ||
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1 Person: 100% chance of success 2 People: 50% chance of success 3 People: 20% chance of success The % chance is calculated individually for each target I made Sandroba's role. It is nearly exactly the way he posted it, decon just changed the wording slightly. Penalty now incoming. What I find strange is that we have kitaman as a confirmed hit on Amber, and yet you are all going after me based on tentative evidence. That evidence is as follows: On July 31 2011 06:48 Palmar wrote: read my ability, I see any action they perform initially decon just said chaos13 visited sandroba, but I sent him a pm, and he said I also saw chaos tried to kill sandroba So this is a claim from somebody who is hugely suspicious. Remember that scumslip a day ago with Foolishness' role? Yeah, that one. Only mafai would be so sure of that. And now we have him claiming this.. So: 1) My visit to Sandroba was a medic protect. I chose to protect 1 person I have a strong town read on, because I don't want to risk not being successful. 2) So he claims a watcher/tracker role...that also receives information on specifically what action occured? Not only that, but he had to PM the host to remind them of this? That is complete and utter bullshit. No watcher/tracker role would have that, it becomes way too powerful. You'll notice that decon apparently didn't tell him what action DB used on me. That's cause he's trying to frame me. Kitaman is scum, and Palmar is scum. I am town. | ||
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Oh and Palmar is scum | ||
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On July 31 2011 12:28 sandroba wrote: I'll only have kp 2 nights from now if enough people visit me. What? Oh, right. It would take a full cycle | ||
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Penalty: Your votes don't count for the rest of the game. Penalty 2: (In case the first one is too much) You are roleblocked and return a result of Mafia Godfather to investigations (LOL) for that night. | ||
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On July 31 2011 12:39 kitaman27 wrote: Who did you protect night one, chaos? supersoft and curu. Both failed, which is why I switched to the one protect a night | ||
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I have no idea how I was masoned with Sandroba, because I was roleblocked. I received a message from decon saying You were roleblocked! You may now PM with sandroba. (close to exact wording, just doing it from memory) As for my claim sounding fake, there is nothing I can do about that. Talk to my role creator, whoever they are. | ||
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no u | ||
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