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Zona
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but for now two minor thoughts: I think it's a good idea if we demand all anti-nukes that are used, to be claimed by the user, in order to link the person who was saved and the anti-nuker for later analysis.. Suppose a scum anti-nukes for another scum. If the anti-nuker is forced to claim, then the two players are linked for when later either one flips. If a town anti-nukes for someone they feel is town and is correct, that's a good situation later on for flips. (Of course if a town player anti-nukes for someone who is mafia, that's kind of bad - but this linkage information shouldn't be used in isolation, but along with other evidence that appears. There's also a potential gambit by a scum anti-nuker who saves a town and hopes the town flips later to burnish the scum's townie credentials, but in this case that scum loses an anti-nuke AND keeps a town member alive for the time being, so I think that's a worthy tradeoff). Some of you are saying that we should leave the conspirator alone for now - but the role might have additional abilities that could be detrimental to everyone. | ||
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On July 07 2011 13:37 JeeJee wrote: palmar fakes GM -- mataza nukes sandro, anti-nuked by minii -- minii nukes mataza, anti-nuked by GM -- mataza counter-nukes minii, anti-nuked by minii -- 15.10 sandro nukes GM -- 16.02 sinani nukes YM -- 16.06 jeejee nuke sinani -- 16.07 sinani counternuke jeejee -- any questions? Well, I meant demanding that all future anti-nukes also be claimed. | ||
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On July 07 2011 13:49 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What's forcing them to claim though? Anti-nukes should be claimed, for the sake of better information, but if a scum anti-nukes another scum, I don't really think he'll claim, no matter how nicely we ask him. Also, I'm lynching Palmar today. He's not town, we have no clue what additional abilities he has, or if the radiation cap or something else will be revealed with his role, and we have no reason to trust anything he says, besides his word, which is worth shit because he's not town. Besides that, he's shitting up the thread more than it already is. People are talking about policy lynching people, even if you think they're town. Instead, how about policy lynching people who are known anti-town, so that we can stop mafia from hiding behind fake conspirator, or third party roles? Sounds better to me, than keeping scum around because they've claimed conspirator, or benevolent third party who wins if the nuke cap isn't met. Also, I'm pretty sure his lynch is generating discussion, simply due to the fact that people are still discussing it, and not everyone is voting for him. What are you so worried about, heist? Well the pressure would be that whoever was saved, without anyone claiming anti-nuke, would be somewhat suspicious. It's not foolproof due to the gambit I mentioned, but I think it's worth it for the town to agree with. And of course if someone as a special ability that saves themselves when nuked, that will need to be claimed if that person does get nuked. I also agree with what you said about Palmar, it squares with what I'm thinking, especially with the other abilities part. | ||
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GMarshal's ever-changing explanations is extremely fishy, I want that to stay on everyone's mind. The redirection of a nuke towards Palmar by itself is more of a town move than a scum move. If the scum was going to redirect a nuke they might as well take out someone else with the choice of new target. The choice of Palmar being the new target likely shows that whoever was doing the redirecting had no good ideas on who else to hit, and thus retargeted the nuke on someone who was already going to die anyways (and claimed conspirator). That is, the redirection is likely the action of a town member looking to save youngminii but had no good vig targets, and wisely didn't just randomly hit another player hoping that this other target was scum. I still want those who stop nukes to claim, but if this redirector still has more of this ability remaining, I can understand why this person might want to stay secret for now - it does make this person a big target. Finally, all these claims flying around in the thread. I don't think it makes sense for any of town, scum, or third party to claim at all at this point in the game. I also despite town members who lie, though - almost all of the time they just confuse the rest of the town. | ||
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While I don't think NAME/FACTION/FULL ROLE claims make sense. | ||
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syllogism: Claims aren't as solid evidence as you say they are - AND they really shouldn't be thrown out so casually. Plus we still have flavor that zombies are a different faction. Sandroba throwing his own claim out that quickly could mean he didn't even seriously consider his actions before posting...or, alternatively, he was actually waiting for an opportunity to post that claim and "capitalized" on it when he saw sinani's post. | ||
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On July 09 2011 00:02 syllogism wrote: No one is relying on claims. They are just one bit of data that can be used to determine alignment. Sometimes it's a null tell, sometimes it's not. On July 08 2011 23:48 syllogism wrote: Look at the time line of sinani206 claiming Leon Trot-Ze and Sandroba claiming UMADIMIR LENEN. Pretty impressive improvisation if he managed to decide it was a good spot to fake claim and come up with a reasonable fake claim in less than 2 minutes. Plus him being Zombie Lenin makes sense. So much time wasted on people who are quite likely to be town at this point Sigh. We are responding to your post, and now you try to dismiss the entire discussion out of hand? | ||
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But yes, we should probably move on. | ||
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On July 09 2011 00:14 GMarshal wrote: That is correct. When I read my Pm for the first time it said something around the lines of "you are Chinese Restaurant, you start with 1 nuke and 1 extra life" I then elected Cash to be my leader which granted 1 extra life and 1 anti-nuke, I completely forgot that I got one extra life to start with, so I thought I had lost my only extra life to Palmars fake nuke. Turns out I had one more than I thought. Okay. Taking GMarshal's response at face value for now, there's something I wanted to note: It's possible for Palmar's "fake" nuke to actually have been real. Caller did say somewhere that fake nukes remove lives too, but I don't want everyone making the assumption that the nuke was confirmed 100% fake just in case it matters later on (a minuscule chance, to be sure: just in case we evaluate a future "fake" nuke by comparing it with Palmar's or something). | ||
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Gosh I really want to see that day post. | ||
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Then he must have been hit twice? | ||
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On July 10 2011 11:37 Drazerk wrote: God ( Caller ) gave me two nukes Because of the Chaos lynch. That is really the only line I can make out from that... Suck at prophesies I guess you're claiming that you're the "new hero" that emerges? You might have a new armor too, "believed to reflect all mortal metal", if that's the case. I want to play to win. But given that Caller's apparently even changing players' roles - it's hard to make sense of anything. Guess I should have expected it, but I didn't. | ||
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What? Everyone should be expected to save themselves, including if they're town. Unless you're claiming your missile is unstoppable? But Mig should still try, since his ability goes away when he dies. | ||
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On July 10 2011 12:00 heist wrote: sry Mig nothing can stop Paq's nukes... Are you saying you have more information about how the game works? If so - you should probably tell the town the stuff that it might benefit from. We seem to be pretty much in the dark in many key areas. Unless you're referring to: On July 10 2011 11:21 Caller wrote: Paqman has invoked the wrath of Poland! The incoming missile at Paqman cannot be stopped. Which strangely states that the missile aimed at Paqman can't be stopped, rather than his outgoing missiles. | ||
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Sheesh I don't know what to think anymore. | ||
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On July 10 2011 12:07 PaqMan wrote: They're duds. The missile that GGQ shot at me is unstoppable. So I have no chance of surviving it lololol. Wait - that missile seems to be unstoppable because you activated "wrath of Poland". What the hell is that? | ||
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On July 10 2011 12:08 Curu wrote: You can fire two missiles at once but they both happen to be duds? What kind of power is that. I don't believe this. You're just trying to make sure they both land aren't you? I don't believe it either. You clearly activated some kind of power. | ||
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On July 10 2011 13:05 Coagulation wrote: Well I must admit. considering If we dont take a hit to radiation level if we nuke now If any of you idiots feel compelled to use your nukes all willy nilly and shit for fucks sake do it now while you dont drag all of town down with you. Killing other townies drags down the town with you as well. TBH the mafia would be the most concerned about losing via radiation, when they have a relatively good situation with townies nuking each other. | ||
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On July 10 2011 13:36 heist wrote: How about this for the lynch? We lynch whoever lives from all the nukes? How about No? Surviving a nuke alone doesn't indicate town or mafia - just that they have some sort of nuke defense ability. In case some of them are townies around who can survive nukes - it'd be nice to keep them around. | ||
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On July 10 2011 14:06 JeeJee wrote: What the fuck guys? ##Nuke: Zona What the fuck indeed. Here you lament others initiating nukes and now you do so yourself. All these nukes before even giving the target an opportunity to defend him/herself are foolish. I'm the other mason. On July 07 2011 14:53 Zona wrote: I also agree with what you said about Palmar, it squares with what I'm thinking, especially with the other abilities part. squares + compass = freemason symbol. But whatever, I don't think saving me with a nuke defense, despite me being town, will help the town win because we're fucked anyways. Your actions don't match your words. If you don't die from the current nuke, you'll die from one of mine. | ||
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##Nuke: JeeJee REASON: His actions don't match his words. His claim doesn't actually prove anything at all. | ||
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On July 10 2011 15:26 Coagulation wrote: YOU NUKED OUR FUCKING DINOSAUR He was already being nuked. Then he nuked me despite it going against everything he said. So I'm making sure he's really dead. Plus how do you know the claim is real? | ||
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However, unlike the idiots, I'm giving you (and anyone else who cares to) a chance to defend yourself before I pull the trigger. You have until the missile is about to hit me to convince me you're pro-town. | ||
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Now I have a missile from a confirmed mafia headed towards me - and claimed mason with my mason buddy supporting. If anyone cares to save me in 20 minutes...well, help! | ||
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The only thing anyone has said in support of them is that they have claimed nuke-proof (zombies?) And Coag self-claimed that nukes at him will hit "other town" | ||
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On July 11 2011 01:49 syllogism wrote: But he had such a believable role claim too go town what are you talking about JeeJee? It wasn't believable - it was only "believable" because you guys are assuming EVERYTHING is believable in a Caller game. But yeah you're dead and can't respond. | ||
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I really, really, really don't like how Coag has been playing - the subtle digs and never committing to any sort of real opinion other than "hey I'm nukeproof" and "don't nuke each other!" sandroba's actions are also very anti-town in my eyes. However since I realize my vision is fallible I will not nuke on my own. I threw out the threat to get them to respond and neither have actually defended themselves. | ||
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With GGQ | ||
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Everyone who is around weigh in, please. | ||
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Sitting on the fence with sandroba. | ||
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On July 11 2011 01:59 Mig wrote: So we are missing the nukes on Misder, GGQ, Wiggles. Misder nuked JeeJee so hopefully he is still alive because he should be clearly town. Yes, Misder is clearly NOT mafia. (keep in mind he could be third party) | ||
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On July 11 2011 02:00 Drazerk wrote: SandRoba has claimed nuke immune I would go for Coag both claimed nuke immune in thread. I can nuke twice. | ||
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I'm going to hold back - but I want town to FOLLOW UP ON THIS CLAIM! | ||
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Just in case nobody noticed. | ||
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Also those who say GM and whoever are confirmed town please re-explain your reasoning | ||
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Especially when a chinese faction player could choose between leaders for different abilities. | ||
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On July 11 2011 02:11 prplhz wrote: ~OpZ~ you know it was very fucking reasonable at the time, youngminii claimed to be some dude who had flipped and he had protected sandroba out of nowhere on day1. Also they were pushing for you and I thought you were town so I didn't like that and I never suspected syllogism that much. Well there may be stupid townies not counterclaiming. But I think we can't just assume that GMarshal is scum and some townie is beyond stupid .. I think we should assume that GMarshal is a good guy for now. I'm not claiming he's scum. I just didn't want you to throw on the "confirmed townie" label onto anyone without the requisite reasoning - if you accidentally throw it onto scum it helps them so much. | ||
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On July 11 2011 02:12 ~OpZ~ wrote: ...The leaders are in the game. Je'mapelle Paur Leynaud ce FRANCE." SOME leaders are definitely in the game. I am one, it should be easy to figure out who now. | ||
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On July 11 2011 02:11 Mig wrote: If we believe GM we are forced to believe Coag as well. Personally I don't trust either of them yet. Coag later claimed that he could confirm and WOULD himself in a day post - FOLLOW HIM UP ON THIS. I'm holding back my nuke for now. | ||
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On July 11 2011 02:14 ~OpZ~ wrote: I think we should assume you should be nuked....What have you been doing this whole time? ZONA NUKE HIM. Sorry, I don't nuke on short notice, even if I'm dying. However, please continue to put pressure on him for scummy actions. | ||
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On July 11 2011 02:14 Mig wrote: And btw if somehow there is a medic tonight please protect me! Confirmed town with very strong power here. How are you confirmed town again? | ||
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On July 11 2011 02:16 prplhz wrote: ~OpZ~ I don't think I want to argue with you, seems like you're just going through my posts one by one and saying that they're scum. Some sort of OMGUS because I said that you were noob or something? Also I'm not throwing it around, I'm temporarily saying it about people who are townie without a doubt in my mind. Something might change in the future but I seriously doubt this. Yes, Coagulation is on this list too being King Something of Crazy Island .. Man I need to read this thread again but it's 123 so much has happened. You should argue with him. Opz has a point - virtually everyone you've accused has flipped town. | ||
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On July 11 2011 02:17 Mig wrote: I shot kurumi (red). I also pointed Wiggles (red) as one of my top targets. And day 1 I saved YM (townie) and redirected the nuke to hit palmar (conspirator). I re-checked - Mig nuked Kurumi here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10225806 Just in case anyone else missed it. Also no one else counterclaimed the redirection of that nuke. I'm going to reread Kurumi just in case mafia was sacrificing one of their own, but I don't it's the case. | ||
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welp time to apologize to Caller | ||
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On July 11 2011 02:24 prplhz wrote: Alright. ~OpZ~ I voted for you because I thought syllogism had played very well during this game and I was very disillusioned with this game, people throwing nukes like there was no tomorrow. I saw that syllogism was equally demoralized and I kinda wanted to cheer him up somehow so I voted for you. I had no idea who was scum at the time and voting for someone who was being targetted by a guy I thought was very town and had put a lot of work into this game seemed very logical. Also, not to throw responsibility away, but if I recall right, you were pretty dead at the moment so while I jumped the bandwagon I wasn't really swinging anywhere. Also, maybe you're scum. But you really seem more noob than scum to me which was my biggest concern all along. The day is not over yet, I hope with a revitalized town we can get some real pressure going 'cause I don't think you're scum. Are you following the game? A missile's going to land on Opz soon. Unless your "maybe you're scum" is a tactic to try to soften Opz's accusation. | ||
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On July 11 2011 02:35 Zona wrote: Well apparently the missile on me is in some kind of time vortex. I'll be back later if I'm still alive. Wait don't take this post seriously as a post about game mechanics. | ||
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Tuxedo Tojo: You are the male counterpart to Sailor Hirohito. You are a sneaky person and wear a mask that doesn’t conceal your identity very well, but you may hide behind one person at night and kill the first person that visits them. Any subsequent visitors will know your identity, however. | ||
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I'm out. | ||
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