EPTWorld at War 2 Mafia - Page 3
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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sandroba
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##Vote: GMroba's plan (changed to 40%) | ||
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sandroba
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I.E. I'ts day 4 we lynched/nuked 4 mafia, we can vote at night to change the plan to 1 lynch per day. If it's day 5 and we only lynched 2 mafia and we are nearing lylo we actually don't give a fuck as to who we lose to so we can keep it up, so we have a nicer shot at winning and so on. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
What you can guarantee is that the majority of the players are pro-town and while you can't guarantee that the majority will vote for a mafia, you can guarantee that we are playing skill vs skill in an extremelly town favored field. Blue roles are still free to act how they want and use their night actions how they see fit. You just eliminate the nuke-fest factor from the game completely AND get 2 lynches a day in the process. | ||
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sandroba
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On July 05 2011 23:00 Palmar wrote: If this was true, town would win vanilla games majority of the time (they don't) But as I said, it's a non issue. Syllo actually pointed out something that none of us had thought about, and with that information in mind I retract my opinions. Stop being silly and read what I posted. Not every game we have 2 lynches per night cycle. I also didn't claim town would win 100% of the time under those circumstances, I said it's extremelly town favored and town should win most of the time given the same skill. | ||
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sandroba
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When balancing a game the host takes into consideration the number of night kills by mafia compared to the number of people playing the game. The more lynches we have per day the less kill mafia has. That's easy and simple, anyone refusing to see this should take a step back and think it through again. If we push this to the limit we have all lynches in one day and no mafia night kills. With most players in the game being town aligned you can see how it's extremelly dificult for mafia to win. This game has a deterrent to that though, which is the conspirator. It prevents us from simply nuking all players and having infinite "lynches" per day. Also there is the time constraint, each day having 48hrs prevents us from discussing and agreeing on multiple targets per day. Nevertheless it IS extremelly advantageous to town to lynch more than one player per day, and making it 2 per day is a conservative way to prevent conspirator from winning and leaving enough time for discussion. It's ridiculous to argue otherwise. "Mafia can influence the lynch and kill more town players per day". Yes they can, but they also have COMPLETE control over their night kills and the lynch is our main weapon to defeat mafia. It really comes to skill from town as a whole vs skill from mafia when determining the outcome of a lynch, but it tends to favor town as town always has more players. With that out of the way let me explain to all of you why Palmar is NOT town-aligned this game: If you have not followed the discussion from when I the plan initially came up till now I sugest you do so. When I first proposed my plan, palmar said it was terrible and he wanted "individual thinking" from town. First let me say that Scum absolutelly does not want us to use the plan. It fucks them in many ways and it fucks them hard. So what's scum behaviour in that scenario? They want to dismiss it, but they want to do so without drawing uneeded suspicion onto them. It would be foolish for them to start attacking the plan hard before it even gets momentum. And that's exactly what palmar does: On July 05 2011 18:41 Palmar wrote: Time to stop the insanity and explain this. Sandroba's is slightly less bad, but still wrests control away from townies. I'm a big advocate of the "shoot early, shoot independently, shoot scum and shoot often" vigilante policy. Clearly with the radiation thing this has to be scaled back a little bit, but for the most part, it still applies, just chill a bit and think again before you shoot. So, without further ado, I introduce an alternative to all the dumb shit that's been going on. I will require every major nation in the world to sign this agreement. The Palmar Agreement: 1. Article - Nuke Scum 2. Article - Don't be an idiot 3. Article ##Vote: GMarshal On July 05 2011 19:18 Palmar wrote: Whatever. I'm not gonna shit up the thread by discussing a bad plan, I'm going to rely on people not being dumb as fuck. But hey, if anyone wants to play your little stifling game, then all the power to you. Bear in mind that Palmar claimed later to have 0 nukes. He wants independent though from "pros and great analystis" while putting blind faith on their aligment. Needless to say that has lead to disaster in all previous games using a similar setup. Also we still have blue roles who have night actions (the equivalent of vigs/medics/dts, we did in previous games and if we don't in this game palmar has no reason to believe that's the case), and it's completely up to them how to use them. Lets look at this other post shall we: On July 05 2011 18:58 Palmar wrote: That's why I said "just chill a bit" in my text. yes, scum probably has nukes. You're working under the misconception that somehow allowing people to vote or agree on a nuke is bending to the town's will, this is incorrect. The town is, and will always be, controlled by few vocal members that are charismatic and convincing enough to lead the rest along with them on crusades. Vigilante shots (or nukes) provide a great alternative to that. If the town "council" of people who lead the town are missing something or even in worst case being messed with by scum, that's when we really need independent vigilante shots. Don't try to control town. Also, if everyone signs my agreement, then there's a clause that says "Don't be an idiot", and thus we will not have stupid or useless nukes. In RTM where Palmar was town aligned, he strived to take leadership, took scumhunting into his own hands while trying to keep town focused (even if he was wrong about he's suspects sometimes). He refused to deposit blind faith in anyone and kept scum on their toes all game. Lets look at the results: It produced a ton of good information, which allowed players to be extremelly acurate with their blue powers and lynches and became the one of the most one sided town victories so far in this forum. We can't say it didn't work out for him, quite the oposite. Now in this game, we not only see a complete 180 in his mentality, but also a change that's extremelly pro-mafia and anti-town, judging by not only mine, but his own standards: He doesn't want leadership and wants to trust in players that, if he was town aligned, he would have no knowledge of their aligment. That's only going to lead into dozens of nukes being fired at random and most of the hits will be townie deaths. Mafia knows who their players are so they can use their nukes/counter-nukes strategically while we cannot. That's a extremelly mafia favored field. He compares nukes to vigilante shots when everyone and their mother knows they are NOTHING simillar. As a town this makes absolutely no sense, but as mafia it sure as hell does. Lets move on to later in the discussion. The plan starts gaining strengh and many players start agreeing with it. When Palmar notices this he starts to opose it more vocally since mafia is absolutelly screwed if we agree on this. His arguments are that we should not trust the town circle, which is clear bullshit when everyone is allowed to vote on the targets and that players should be allowed to use independent thought. But look at this, it's not like palmar wants to take matters into his own hands and nuke scum. He has no fucking nukes (at least he claims). He wants to blindly trust other players to make their decisions on who to nuke. That's not the town aligned Palmar which we all know, which would have jumped on the opportunity of having two lynches per day and kick scum's sorry ass, by trying to lead town based on his beliefs. All this so far 100% proves that palmar is not town aligned this game. But lets continue so you can notice Palmar change in behaviour. Suddenly I pop in the thread and say I know he's scum and have all the info I need to prove it (presented above). From this moment on Palmar gradually changes his opinion from "terrible plan" to "really decent plan" and he abandons his previous beliefs for the terrible reasoning "my previous plan does not allow role claims". As GM pointed out roles have absoulutelly no bearing on aligment, and that alone should never be enough for you to change your mind about something you were fighting so strongly against. This only makes sense as a desperate attempt by scum to remedy their complete exposure and try to hide again. Palmar has already shown us his true colors and now is trying to back down like a misbehaved child providing weak excuses (something town palmar would never do). PALMAR IS SCUM ##Vote: Palmar ##Dunkirk Operation | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
Also anyone that agreed to my plan should be voting to lynch palmar regardless since he broke the no nukes rule, shorttened the day and possibly took away an extra life from another player for no reason. He didn't even follow his own plan. God knows if he has nukes or not. Use your head and vote for palmar. He is 100% scum. | ||
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sandroba
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Now scum has plenty of reasons to prove they are not lying, they are afraid and must take suspicion away from them even before people start noticing them. Palmar knows he's doomed and is using his last breath to fuck with us. Let's lynch him! | ||
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Come on people vote for Palmar. He did not even respond to my case, while being active in other threads. I guarantee you he is scum. | ||
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@Palmar I quoted the post where you called the plan bad. Nukes are not vigillante shots, for many reasons that I've stated before, yet you failed to acknowledge. I'm not preventing any blue roles from acting. Yes I want us to use controlled nuking to our advantage. 1 per day is not going to win the game for the conspirator. Period. You say no random nuking day 1 but you fucking broke your own rule and shorttened the day by 24hrs. @Mataza I hope your nuke doesn't go off. | ||
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sandroba
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On July 05 2011 19:18 Palmar wrote: Whatever. I'm not gonna shit up the thread by discussing a bad plan, I'm going to rely on people not being dumb as fuck. But hey, if anyone wants to play your little stifling game, then all the power to you. Here is about the 3rd post where you called the plan bad. Also if you are suposedly able to spot bad nukes mataza should be auto scum and you should be voting for him. | ||
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Don't fire any nukes at me cuz I'm fucking imortal. If they do, don't shoot them down, cuz it's not worth it just for the radiation at this point. ##Nuke GMarshal | ||
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